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(Townhall)   The Battle of the Bulge proved that we weren't winning WWII and that the Germans weren't on the run   (townhall.com) divider line 115
    More: Obvious, Battle of the Bulge, Major Victory, al-Qaeda, Iraq, Anbar Province, Anbar, Ramadi, David Limbaugh  
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2825 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Jan 2014 at 12:54 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-06 09:20:50 PM

Enitria: Truth of the matter, the Germans simply lucked out by being defeated as early as they were, and the Battle of the Bulge helped that happen.

Remember, Roosevelt and Churchill had made Germany their first priority, with Stalin happily agreeing since he was bearing the brunt of the dying. With that in mind, also remember (or learn if you didn't know) that the US atomic bombs were originally destined to be dropped on German heads.

Since it became obvious at the start of 1945 that the Nazis were spent, focus shifted to the Japanese, who still needed to be invaded, let alone defeated.


The Germans weren't nearly as dehumanized by our propaganda as the Japanese were.  It's much harder to justify that type of destruction without it.

And, for the record, the Japanese weren't helping their image with what we knew about the atrocities they were committing and how they were fighting as they were losing islands.  The worst of the German atrocities came to light after the fact
 
2014-01-06 10:10:54 PM

bhcompy: Enitria: Truth of the matter, the Germans simply lucked out by being defeated as early as they were, and the Battle of the Bulge helped that happen.

Remember, Roosevelt and Churchill had made Germany their first priority, with Stalin happily agreeing since he was bearing the brunt of the dying. With that in mind, also remember (or learn if you didn't know) that the US atomic bombs were originally destined to be dropped on German heads.

Since it became obvious at the start of 1945 that the Nazis were spent, focus shifted to the Japanese, who still needed to be invaded, let alone defeated.

The Germans weren't nearly as dehumanized by our propaganda as the Japanese were.  It's much harder to justify that type of destruction without it.

And, for the record, the Japanese weren't helping their image with what we knew about the atrocities they were committing and how they were fighting as they were losing islands.  The worst of the German atrocities came to light after the fact


If the Allies had nukes and Germany was still fighting, then they would not have hesitated to use them. The scale of the bombing makes that clear.

Not only were the Germans broken, but they had surrendered before the Trinity test, let alone the availability of an operational nuclear weapon.
 
2014-01-06 10:28:59 PM

Gyrfalcon: trotsky: flondrix: OnlyM3: Obama's been retreating on all fronts. Why not this one too?

There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq until Bush invaded.

Yep. Militants will sneak in the minute the stable, though evil, guy in charge is deposed.

I wonder if anyone even realizes that the al-Qaeda that's in Iraq right now has barely a nodding acquaintance with bin Laden's al-Qaeda. All they did was borrow the name. Bin Laden's al-Qaeda died with him.


Yep.  It was basically a marketing decision.

/No, really.
 
2014-01-06 10:54:05 PM

Sid_6.7: Why was this trollish POS greened?


Drew hires only the worst trolls to be politics tabs admins. He's very selective.

I've been trying for YEARS, but I just don't offend enough people.
 
2014-01-07 12:07:36 AM
although a tremendous battle that looked at first like the Germans might break thru it actually was an huge American victory. Although a costly one...Looks like Obama's critics are like the "American First'ers" lead by Charles Lindbergh ...Pseudo patriots who would like Obama to fail just to score minuscule, selfish political points. We beat the Nazis then and we'll beat these chumps now!! At home and abroad...
 
2014-01-07 12:31:03 AM
For the record, the "Battle of the Bulge" was not Hitler's last push in the war, "Operation Nordwind" was...  Sadly, history has forgotten the epic battles and heroism that the Allies performed in the Alsatian area of France.  While the "Bulge" was a significant defeat for Hitler, it was the complete failure of "Nordwind' that sealed the German fate.

/I am not trying to diminish the heroism many showed at the "Bulge" only trying to bring attention to the heroes on the Allied side that defeated "Nordwind."
 
2014-01-07 06:57:04 AM

RyogaM: Remember when Republicans said Obama didn't deserve any credit for withdrawing from Iraq because he was just following the agreement for withdraw that Bush made?  I guess that Surge wasn't as successful as you all thought it was, huh?

Get bent, Republicans.


Bribing the main militant factions to keep quiet while the US declared victory and could withdraw wasn't a solution for lasting peace in Iraq? Who knew?
 
2014-01-07 07:15:42 AM

AurizenDarkstar: EWreckedSean: joonyer: Your mind: Where this is true.
Reality: Where this is potato.

I love partisan people. They actually convince themselves that it is all the other guy.

You want more fighting?  Then get your sorry ass to a recruitment center and sign it up for service.  Put your goddamn money where your mouth is, Mr. Armchair General.  Otherwise, STFU.


Been there, done that, got the DD214 to prove it.

Of course, the only thing I fought was boredom.  By drinking.  A lot.

/Too old to enlist now.
//Yes, I checked.
 
2014-01-07 11:08:23 AM
Why hitler thought his least capable troops could pull off an amazing upset in the west after being embarrassed on every other front they fought on is beyond crazy though
 
2014-01-07 11:38:41 AM

Subtle_Canary: Why hitler thought his least capable troops could pull off an amazing upset in the west after being embarrassed on every other front they fought on is beyond crazy though


Hans Helmut Kirst agrees.
 
2014-01-07 12:16:07 PM

jpo2269: For the record, the "Battle of the Bulge" was not Hitler's last push in the war, "Operation Nordwind" was...  Sadly, history has forgotten the epic battles and heroism that the Allies performed in the Alsatian area of France.  While the "Bulge" was a significant defeat for Hitler, it was the complete failure of "Nordwind' that sealed the German fate.

/I am not trying to diminish the heroism many showed at the "Bulge" only trying to bring attention to the heroes on the Allied side that defeated "Nordwind."


It's not that Bulge was the last offensive op - it's that it came a lot closer to causing a serious problem than Nordwind. Obviously, neither would save the Reich, but the story told by Bulge is not only more interesting, but the Germans came rather close to causing a serious setback.

/Nordwind was a good Forgotten Hope map, though
 
2014-01-07 02:10:02 PM

Subtle_Canary: Why hitler thought his least capable troops could pull off an amazing upset in the west after being embarrassed on every other front they fought on is beyond crazy though


It was a Hail Mary.

It was the superbowl, 3 seconds left on the clock and down by 8 on your own 1 yardline with your backup QB in the game against the best defense ever. You have lost, but you may as well take the shot downfield. Maybe a miracle happens and you get a touchdown, a two point convert, and then you can win in OT.

The idea was if they could get a shocking victory, they might be able to convince the West to negotiate (and maybe even take action to stop the Soviets after). It was a desparate gamble and I doubt any German thought it had more than a negligable chance of success.

They really had 3 courses of action:
1) Desperate virtually guaranteed failure offensive.
2) Slow defensive war guaranteed to result in defeat.
3) Unconditional surrender.

Hitler wasn't taking the third option (best for the German people) so it makes sense to take the first.
 
2014-01-07 03:48:54 PM

jpo2269: For the record, the "Battle of the Bulge" was not Hitler's last push in the war, "Operation Nordwind" was...  Sadly, history has forgotten the epic battles and heroism that the Allies performed in the Alsatian area of France.  While the "Bulge" was a significant defeat for Hitler, it was the complete failure of "Nordwind' that sealed the German fate.

/I am not trying to diminish the heroism many showed at the "Bulge" only trying to bring attention to the heroes on the Allied side that defeated "Nordwind."


not denigrating Nordwind heroism but it was penny anty to the Bulge...The 101st Screaming Eagles and the 10th Armd Division saved western society at Bastonge...
 
2014-01-07 06:53:36 PM
I would hardly call a small increase in casualties and financial expenditure (in relative terms), VE day in summer or fall instead of spring, and a bit more of Germany under Soviet control as the end of western society.A German breakthrough would have cost the Allies a pile of men and materiel to regain the lost territory, but wouldn't have went anywhere in the long term. And once the offensive inevitably stalled out (once the Allies brought their air power to bear, at the latest) the Germans would be even more overextended and vulnerable.And Nordwind gives an idea what would happen when the Germans attacked Allied units stretched thin (all assets that could be sent to the Ardennes had been, hence the Germans attacking in the first place) with proper support. The German military was running on fumes and got extremely lucky in the Ardennes to get as far as they did.
 
2014-01-07 09:13:59 PM

dywed88: I would hardly call a small increase in casualties and financial expenditure (in relative terms), VE day in summer or fall instead of spring, and a bit more of Germany under Soviet control as the end of western society.A German breakthrough would have cost the Allies a pile of men and materiel to regain the lost territory, but wouldn't have went anywhere in the long term. And once the offensive inevitably stalled out (once the Allies brought their air power to bear, at the latest) the Germans would be even more overextended and vulnerable.And Nordwind gives an idea what would happen when the Germans attacked Allied units stretched thin (all assets that could be sent to the Ardennes had been, hence the Germans attacking in the first place) with proper support. The German military was running on fumes and got extremely lucky in the Ardennes to get as far as they did.


You forget or unaware of the Luftwaffe's presence in the BotB...They gave the Americans/Brits some nasty surprises during it. It is plausible that if the Germans had taken Antwerp as was their goal and split the Allied line that they would then have been able to (relatively) safely transfer troops back to the eastern front to hold off the Russians while digging in and holding the Americans, British and Canadians off in the west. The US Army lost more men kia'd in the BotB than the entire US Marine Corp lost kia'd in the pacific war. (True, look it up.) The Germans nearly succeeded and it was b/c of GI Joe dogface that they didn't. Our Generals were fooled. Our troops fought beyond heroism! Nordwind, while ferocious, was truly a last gasp offensively for the Germans in the west. The BotB was the real thing...
 
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