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(Slate)   A mere 150 years after getting its ass handed to it by the Union, North Carolina is finally winning a civil war--against its own teachers   (slate.com) divider line 138
    More: Dumbass, North Carolina, Common Core, language arts, student test, discretionary income  
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14148 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jan 2014 at 11:03 AM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-01-06 11:05:53 AM
18 votes:

sigdiamond2000: They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation.


Studied it from whom?
Idiot.
2014-01-06 10:33:12 AM
16 votes:
Yes, they should of.
2014-01-06 11:37:26 AM
11 votes:
Some people can't stand to see a public service exist when it could be privatized and they will do everything in their power to trash the public sector just so they can point to it as a failure, now matter how well the service works when properly run and no matter who and how many it hurts while they're in the process of breaking it. Its happening with our K-12 educational system and Social Security, and the same people are trying to apply the approach to government in general. So unless you want to start figuring out whether you'll get a better deal on Justice in the McDonald's court of law or Burger King superior court, Or if its better to take the Wal*Mart freeway vs. the Target integrated highway system fight these assholes! Some things are too important to be held hostage for profit. Your schools are just the beginning.
2014-01-06 11:20:17 AM
10 votes:
It's a Slate article and, considering the precipitous decline in quality recently I'm not going to bother reading it, but teacher pay is one of those things I've never understood.

So many people seem to hold the idea that you can pay teacher's a mediocre salary, considering their eduction in particular, and still get quality applicants. Do these people believe this works anywhere else? Do they think you can hire an electrician who will do wiring for you for $20/hour and do a good job of it? A mechanic that will fix your car properly for $25/hour?

Why do people believe that there are certain jobs that you can offer mediocre pay and expect quality work? You would think you want to pay people who are working with and influencing your children a decent salary to encourage quality, but we're constantly talking about cutting pay and benefits, increasing workloads and jacking up performance metrics.

Even if I wanted to be a teacher, there's no way I'd do it. I'm not doing that job for a $40k starting salary that I'll be lucky to jack to $75k if I get a PhD and spend 20 years there. It's just not worth it compared to what I could do in virtually any other professional job.

I'm sorry, having 7 weeks off where I have to do professional development and curriculum planning anyway isn't worth the modest paychecks and benefits compared to what I can get in the private sector. Not by a long shot.

You can have cheap teachers if you want, but you're gonna get cheap people who couldn't hack it in the work world. And then you're gonna biatch about the quality.

Can't have everything.
2014-01-06 11:15:17 AM
9 votes:
Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.
2014-01-06 11:21:29 AM
7 votes:

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.



Except there's no teacher's union in NC; they have an organization but it's hardly a union in the Northeastern sense of the word.

As for why NC appears to be headed towards being the South's version of Kansas, that's because the last two elections stuffed the legislature with a veto-proof majority of Christian conservatives, Teabaggers and far right anti-government loons. The entire Republican election platform in both 2008 and 2012 was "elect us and we'll bring jobs, jobs, jobs", but once elected they've done nothing about jobs and everything about destroying this state's reputation as the most forward thinking and progressive state in the South.

Teachers have been especially targeted by the legislature; tenure has been removed, forcing every teacher into a 1, 2 or 3 year contract that is evaluated on how well they and their school do performance wise. Some school boards have had their authority removed and given to the state Education Department; for some reason those school districts are all in areas that tend to vote Democrat. In addition, the budget for education is now being divided between the state run systems and private schools under the cloak of "innovation" and 'choice', except the majority of private schools are religious and/or conservative to the core, and usually so exclusive (and expensive) they aren't really needing taxpayer funds to stay afloat.

The outcome of this is already taking shape. Teachers are opting to move to other states, or just quitting the education career completely. The legislature, of course, will just use this as more evidence that public schools are failing and push for less money, more accountability and more limits on the teachers and school districts.
2014-01-06 11:11:48 AM
7 votes:

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.


Talk radio is getting really good at producing passionate vague statements that don't actually say anything.
2014-01-06 11:56:38 AM
6 votes:

Ring of Fire: TheSwissNavy: farkbot42: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because Fark you, that's why - NC GOP

Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions. How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year? $30,000 to start, job security for life, Cadillac benefits, retire after 30 years at half pay, wtf???

There is no teachers union in NC so that has nothing to do with it.  Mrs. Fire has two bachelor's degrees and one masters.  She is currently in her first (and possibly last) year of teaching in the NC public school system.  She teaches classes that if a student stays in the program the full four years they will be able to become a CNA straight out of high school.  This program can give students a career with out the heavy debt of going to college.  Just a glorified over paid babysitter making 30,000 a year.  Asshole.


Teachers would love to get paid like babysitters. The going rate for a sitter around here is between $8 and $10 per hour for an evening sitter, and $25 a day for daily care.

25 kids a day, five days a week, for 36 weeks adds up to well over $100,000 even for the cheaper day-time rates. So not only are you getting your kids looked after for a bargain price, the kids are getting taught math, history, science, and a lot of other good stuff.
2014-01-06 11:34:48 AM
6 votes:

TheSwissNavy: farkbot42: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because Fark you, that's why - NC GOP

Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions. How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year? $30,000 to start, job security for life, Cadillac benefits, retire after 30 years at half pay, wtf???


I work a minimum of 11 months a year. My summer and winter breaks are spent creating lesson plans which integrate the latest common practices and district initiatives, attending professional development courses, and furthering my own education and core subject expertise. I need the other month to take vacations and spend the time with my own children that I have otherwise been spending with your children, douchebag.
2014-01-06 11:30:21 AM
6 votes:

TheSwissNavy: Snarfangel: "...North Carolina finally gains the upper hand against a union" would have also been acceptable.

Yes. NC isnt warring against teachers or education, its fighting for fiscal solvency. The average public school teacher makes twice what they should, counting benefits and retirement.

The bigger issue is government retirement benefits in general. In 50 years, US life expectancy will be 90, thus bankrupting teacher retirement, SSI, etc. Government employee unions dont care, theyll bankrupt NC like they bankrupted CA and IL,which are insolvent and dependent on tax increases and asset selloffs to pay bills.



One more time: NC doesn't allow public employees to join unions. There's no "teacher's union" in NC; if there was, they'd have a lot better salaries and benefits. Oh, and NC's public retirement fund is currently one of the largest and best managed in the state, which does make me wonder how the legislature is going to try and fark that up next.

As for our 'fiscal solvency', we were doing just fine and dandy until 2008 and the recession hit, followed by the paleolithic Teabag/small government idiots that were elected under a false flag of "jobs jobs jobs". All they've done so far is cut social safety net programs, raise taxes on the poor and middle class (while at the same time reducing overall state revenue) and gut the education and regulatory departments.
2014-01-06 11:37:20 AM
5 votes:

TheSwissNavy: farkbot42: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because Fark you, that's why - NC GOP

Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions. How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year? $30,000 to start, job security for life, Cadillac benefits, retire after 30 years at half pay, wtf???


There is no teachers union in NC so that has nothing to do with it.  Mrs. Fire has two bachelor's degrees and one masters.  She is currently in her first (and possibly last) year of teaching in the NC public school system.  She teaches classes that if a student stays in the program the full four years they will be able to become a CNA straight out of high school.  This program can give students a career with out the heavy debt of going to college.  Just a glorified over paid babysitter making 30,000 a year.  Asshole.
2014-01-06 11:28:12 AM
5 votes:
North Carolina isn't fighting for fiscal solvency.  North Carolina is in great shape fiscally.  The legislature is legislating like idiots and blaming teachers and civil servants.
2014-01-06 11:25:43 AM
5 votes:
skozlaw:
So many people seem to hold the idea that you can pay teacher's a mediocre salary, considering their eduction in particular, and still get quality applicants. Do these people believe this works anywhere else? Do they think you can hire an electrician who will do wiring for you for $20/hour and do a good job of it? A mechanic that will fix your car properly for $25/hour?

Why do people believe that there are certain jobs that you can offer mediocre pay and expect quality work? You would think you want to pay people who are working with and influencing your children a decent salary to encourage quality, but we're constantly talking about cutting pay and benefits, increasing workloads and jacking up performance metrics.


Teaching = Women's work
Women's work = They should do it for the love of helping others not for any expectation of financial reqard
2014-01-06 11:14:30 AM
5 votes:

Snarfangel: "...North Carolina finally gains the upper hand against a union" would have also been acceptable.


North Carolina has had teacher unions be illegal for decades.  That doesn't keep conservative politicians from blaming education problems on "the union"
2014-01-06 11:13:04 AM
5 votes:

sigdiamond2000: They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


I hope someone in your small business proofreads your letters before you send them out.
2014-01-06 11:10:53 AM
5 votes:

FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas.


Near the worst gerrymandering in the history of the entire country thanks to tea-idiots circa 2010.
2014-01-06 01:00:16 PM
4 votes:
FTA: A new law created vouchers so that private academies could dip into the shrinking pool of money that the public schools have left.

Ah, the real goal.  Defund the public education system until it collapses, everyone is forced to move to private institutions--with a modest tuition.  Legislators get kick-backs from owners of said private schools.  Side benefit: uneducated morons vote Republican.
2014-01-06 11:50:59 AM
4 votes:
The author is a neighbor of mine and my daughter has gone to the same schools as the author's son since kindergarten, so I'm familiar with the local situation.

To me it comes down to supply and demand. If you think the free market works, then a teacher pay scale that is 46th in the nation is going to attract teachers who can't work anywhere else.

How did it get this way?  Republicans took over the legislature and are cutting taxes on the rich and raising them on the poor, and when cutting taxes in a state which requires a balanced budget the money has to come from somewhere.

There's also an anti-public-school agenda, and the floodgates have been opened to start for-profit charter schools, which by law do not have any requirements on who can teach, so no college degree or teaching certificate is required.  Hell, they changed the law this year so no background checks are required.  Just because someone's been convicted of a sex crime is no reason to keep them from teaching children.
2014-01-06 11:16:30 AM
4 votes:

TomD9938: FTA  : Gap store managers on average make about $56,000.


Price?
Tea?
China?

As if successfully running any retail operation is some sort of a cake walk.

It's one of the PR problems teachers have.

Many of them believe that theres is the toughest of occupations and that the rest of us get paid for just showing up.


Having done both, I can tell you that teaching is a much tougher gig.
2014-01-06 11:15:42 AM
4 votes:

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


Yes, tell me about all the teacher unions in NC.
2014-01-06 11:07:49 AM
4 votes:
sigdiamond2000:
They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.

Perhaps they genuinely care about education and children?
2014-01-06 01:01:29 PM
3 votes:

mbillips: chitlenz: mbillips: So, Democrats responded to a collapse in state revenue by freezing salaries (not just teachers, all state employees), which happened to public employees across the country. Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding, virtually eliminated spending on books and materials, and in the process drove a lot of good teachers out of state. So both sides did it, mmhmm, I see.

About that "freeze in pay" for all state employees.... not so much:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/10/2598132/gov-pat-mccrory-gives -h is-cabinet.html

You should probably read the links rather than pasting them straight from the Google Search. That story is about the current Republican governor giving his cabinet a big pay raise, while other state workers get smaller ones, LAST year. The previous Democratic governor imposed an overall freeze in wages and hiring for all state workers in 2009, and still got criticized for being a tax-and-spender.


Umm, THAT is the point.  This guy got elected (right or wrong) on a smaller government platform, and then proceeded to give his staff (which ARE on the state payroll) raises while ignoring the (literally) rioting masses outside his mansion door.  And there are many articles about excesses like this, for instance wanting to spend  200k+ on new bathrooms for his house (until it got out):

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/10/12/3275249/mccrory-orders-bathro om -renovation.html

I could have linked any number of stories, he's just that kind of guy.
2014-01-06 11:55:34 AM
3 votes:
It is highly credible that teachers in NC (and many other places) are underpaid, but I object to measures by state ranking. I think that's been an acute problem for education funding. The promoters rarely give any attention to objective measures of outcome. Zero-sum state rankings are especially bad.

Did you now that by every single measure, there are dozens of states below average? The numbers are as bad as they were in 1970! No wonder this country is in so much trouble!
2014-01-06 11:54:27 AM
3 votes:

yanoosh: Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.


Please explain the voting populaces of NYC, DC, Chicago, Detroit, etc. They have some of the worst test scores in the nation.
2014-01-06 11:31:30 AM
3 votes:

abhorrent1: Oh. Teachers pissing and moaning about everything? Must be a day that ends in "Y"



I remember a short year or so ago when teachers were being hailed as heroes for putting their lives before their schoolchildren despite being paid less than a stripper.
2014-01-06 11:22:53 AM
3 votes:

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


See, this is why people think you're a troll account.  Posts like this.  It, at best, is tangentially related to the subject at hand and completely ignores anything in the article or that has been posted by others.
2014-01-06 11:07:06 AM
3 votes:

Pocket Ninja: Yes, they should of.



Surgical snark, hung with their own rope. I like.
2014-01-07 08:28:13 AM
2 votes:

TOSViolation: What happened is as follows:

1) North Carolina was a great place to live
2) People up north, who farked their own place up beyond repair, saw that the grass looked a whole lot greener down in North Carolina
3) These farkwads moved down to North Carolina
4) They then proceeded to do everything in their power to turn North Carolina into exactly the same farked up piece of shiat place to live as they JUST CAME FROM

The only reason Florida is the most farked up place in the South is that there isn't anywhere further south the Yankee assholes can go.


Hard to make this case when the majority in the areas that the Yankees moved to (around Raleigh and Charlotte) voted Democratic and not Republican.  The Democrats were in power for over 100 years in North Carolina (until 2010 in the legislature and 2012 in the governor's mansion). This is well before the Yankees starting showing up in the 1960s in RTP. The primary reason the Democrats were voted out of office is that the crowd was so corrupt that the citizens of our state could no longer put up with them - over 30 Democratic state politicans were indicted and locked up in federal prison in the last decade - Black, Phipps, etc. It is difficult to make the case that "Yankees" voted the recent Republican crowd into state offices when he majority of the votes came from rural areas with minimal Yankess.
2014-01-06 06:56:24 PM
2 votes:

gimmegimme: Way to choose two people to represent a whole group instead of using statistics.  Life must be easy for you...I just hope you're not an accountant.


Yeah, like the same "statistics" that say red states take more federal money than they give...inferring that it's public assistance...yet it's really things like National Park and Federal Land upkeep and costs, military bases, defense spending, etc. Your "voter education" graph is more of the same generalized bullshiat.
2014-01-06 05:07:47 PM
2 votes:
Okay, I did some checking up on the numbers.  They seem off.

FTA:  North Carolina teachers earn nearly $10,000 less than the national average

The linked article refers to the 2012 averages, so let's do the math.   According to the NEA (an opponent to teacher pay cuts), our average salary across all 50 states, DC, and the FEA is $35,672 (take out the FEA, and it's a nice $35.5k). The average teacher pay in North Carolina ... *drumroll please* ... $30,779.  Perhaps these folks learned math in North Carolina, because I don't normally consider $5000 'nearly' $10000.  It's still less, no doubt, it's only 86% of the average, and well above the poverty line.

Also, according to the table, there's 5 that pay less; Idaho, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, South Dakota, making it 44'th, not 46'th.

Hey, I'm not disputing the main case, which is that North Carolinians are poorly educated if educated at all.  I think we can all agree with that.  - Sorry, had to take the easy shot.

How do we fix it though?  Is it really just a matter of money?  South Korea may provide an answer; they went from negligible levels of literacy and education to what is considered by many to be the best education system in the world in a few decades.  How?  Well, teachers are an elite job class, pay scales up there with doctors and lawyers, but that's only half the story.  Like doctors and lawyers, education degrees are grueling, difficult degrees to get, with a great deal of that famous asian competition to weed out those who don't excel.   So they get the cream of the crop, and as such, they demand high pay (up to 3.5x the US max pay!), and as a result of their achievement, they have a certain level of respect in their culture.

This really makes sense; it's teachers that are going to be responsible for teaching our next generations of doctors, lawyers, and everyone else - they need to be of the highest possible quality.

However, Americans do not hold their teachers to the same standards.  American teachers usually just have to meet the low bar of having a bachelor's degree, taking a certification test, and an emotional belief that they need to help the children, absent any actual ability to do so.  Heck, now a days, parents are just looking for an 8 hour day-care, and having teachers that won't bad-touch their kids is a wished-for bonus.

So, I think paying teachers what they're worth is a great idea, as long as we have teachers worth what we pay them.  Ours are, by international comparison, not worth it, and we have no systems to make them so, and many, many obstacles that will need to be overcome in order to implement them.  Can you imagine if teachers could be fired simply for being bad at their jobs, much less being less than exceptional?

Well, you get what you pay for, in more ways than one.
2014-01-06 02:09:53 PM
2 votes:

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


Obviously you do not live in North Carolina.  This qualifies for the most clueless comment of the day. Let's fix the ignorance.

There are no teacher unions in North Carolina that negotiate contracts. There are no unfunded liabilities (such as pensions).  Teachers are state employees and our state has a fully funded pension plan (in fact the top rated pension plan in the nation according to some surveys). Teachers are forced to put 6% of each paycheck into the pension fund and the state does not do any matching (this is the pension, not a 401K/403b) - so there are no "unfunded liabilities" - but to say it mildly the state pensions suck when compared to teaching pensions in other states.

The local school boards do not control funding - they can only influence the county commissioners to spend money on school construction based on the school boards facility budget projections - local school boards do not set teacher salaries in North Carolina or fund operational spending.

Teacher salaries in North Carolina are set at the state level - some high cost counties have small additional salary supplements.
2014-01-06 01:05:18 PM
2 votes:

wambu: I am always amused by stories that advance the view that poor student achievement is the result of low teacher salaries.

The true culprit is the education culture. Colleges graduating teachers who are barely literate and e-certifying crappy teachers so they can "keep their jobs". School administrators who hate kids and parents and look forward to retiring on a pension. School boards that don't focus on education and don't care about the students. Politicians that resent allocating public funds to public education instead of their pet projects. Topped off with a bunch of people who use the schools to advance their ideology and personal agendas, parents who don't give a shiat and students distracted from learning because they are trying to escape from this Hell.

And that's the Pollyanna version.


You know why schools sometimes (rarely, but conceding the point) hire barely literate teachers? Because the pay isn't high enough to attract better ones. It used to be that women had very few career options if they wanted to work, and public school teaching was one of them. So you got some really bright, really dedicated women teaching. Now, women like that can become lawyers, marketing directors or CEOs.

Anyway, public schools are demonstrably as good as they ever were. The only thing driving down standardized test scores are a) mainstreaming kids with developmental difficulties and b) immigrant kids whose English skills are below par. The problem even in "failing" schools generally isn't the classroom instruction, it's the society from which the kids come. 50 years ago, those kids would drop out of school by age 14 and take menial farm or factory jobs. Factory jobs often led to a rise in economic class. That option's pretty much closed off now.
2014-01-06 12:30:10 PM
2 votes:

mbillips: You know what states have the worst education results? The ones where public school teachers DON'T have unions, like North Carolina. None of the Southeastern states allow teachers to join an actual union that does collective bargaining. They have "professional associations" that lobby a little, but that's it.

Also, TFA's author has a bit of a "both sides are bad" problem.

How did this happen? Both political parties share responsibility. When the recession began, the Democrats in power froze teacher pay. After years of salary stagnation, in 2013, Republicans made the following changes: Job security in the form of tenure was abolished. Extra pay for graduate degrees was eliminated. A new law created vouchers so that private academies could dip into the shrinking pool of money that the public schools have left. While requiring schools to adopt the Common Core standards, the legislature slashed materials budgets. According to the National Education Association, we fell to 48th in per-pupil expenditures. State funds for books were cut by about 80 percent, to allocate only $14.26 a year per student. Because you can't buy even one textbook on that budget, teachers are creating their own materials at night after a long day of work.

So, Democrats responded to a collapse in state revenue by freezing salaries (not just teachers, all state employees), which happened to public employees across the country. Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding, virtually eliminated spending on books and materials, and in the process drove a lot of good teachers out of state. So both sides did it, mmhmm, I see.


I hate to say it, but "both sides are bad" sadly holds true in North Carolina. Part of the reason we're being held hostage by the Teahadists is decades of Democratic corruption. Mike Easley and Meg Scott Phipps did this state no favors.

Although to be fair, it's more like one side is bad, and the other is outright hazardous to your health.
2014-01-06 12:27:17 PM
2 votes:
You know what states have the worst education results? The ones where public school teachers DON'T have unions, like North Carolina. None of the Southeastern states allow teachers to join an actual union that does collective bargaining. They have "professional associations" that lobby a little, but that's it.

Also, TFA's author has a bit of a "both sides are bad" problem.

How did this happen? Both political parties share responsibility. When the recession began, the Democrats in power froze teacher pay. After years of salary stagnation, in 2013, Republicans made the following changes: Job security in the form of tenure was abolished. Extra pay for graduate degrees was eliminated. A new law created vouchers so that private academies could dip into the shrinking pool of money that the public schools have left. While requiring schools to adopt the Common Core standards, the legislature slashed materials budgets. According to the National Education Association, we fell to 48th in per-pupil expenditures. State funds for books were cut by about 80 percent, to allocate only $14.26 a year per student. Because you can't buy even one textbook on that budget, teachers are creating their own materials at night after a long day of work.

So, Democrats responded to a collapse in state revenue by freezing salaries (not just teachers, all state employees), which happened to public employees across the country. Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding, virtually eliminated spending on books and materials, and in the process drove a lot of good teachers out of state. So both sides did it, mmhmm, I see.
2014-01-06 12:08:51 PM
2 votes:

flondrix: Kyro: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 800x600]

Wyoming, Nevada, hell even New Hampshire pays teachers better than my state.  I am ashamed.


It's a problem that we are even ranking states.
2014-01-06 12:03:52 PM
2 votes:
I live in NC and the wife teaches 3rd grade.  With 2 masters degrees and 10 years of experience, its still almost not worth the cost of having her work at all once you factor in what we spend per year buying her classes' textbooks out of pocket, etc.  Hell, her salary barely pays for the gas to get back and forth. With the Common Core crap that's happened this year, she's just about had enough, almost with pretty much every other NC elementary teacher out there.  A LOT of them are going to walk after this year, and it will be interesting to see what McCrory plans to do to fill those holes.

I grew up in Memphis during the volatile 70s-80s, and I remember the teacher strikes.  Believe me when I tell you, you WANT these kids to have somewhere to go all day (that isn't burning down your house).  Oh, and contrary to the bs the GOP keeps repeating to the faithful, poor is not always dumb.  Rest assured that people from the inner cities know EXACTLY where to start looting when/if they have nothing else to do...
2014-01-06 11:57:57 AM
2 votes:

MyRandomName: ikanreed: FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas.

Near the worst gerrymandering in the history of the entire country thanks to tea-idiots circa 2010.

Ahh the dumb things liberals tell themselves. The tea party didnt invent the majority minority district. That wasa liberal creation . It centralized large swaths of your voters.


Yep, that supermajority of legislators from a minority of voters is entirely because of district 13 ever existing and not dramatically more abusive changes starting precisely when a bunch of conservative shiatheels decided to fark democracy in the ass from the their temporary upswing in popularity.  Yep.  No wait.  fark off forever, get the fark out of my state, and die a horrible and painful death.
2014-01-06 11:55:58 AM
2 votes:

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


I'm going to go ahead and assume your small business has absolutely nothing to do with writing English sentences.

And I'm not going to bother with any more than that, because you must be trolling.
2014-01-06 11:51:48 AM
2 votes:

FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas


There was a huuuuuge backlash against that trend by the cranky, flat-earth types after 2008. They woke up, loaded the legislature and turned the state backwards in many ways, it's sad. We got the fark out and moved back to NY. Maybe the taxes are higher, but you get what you pay for in many ways. Better schools, services, roads, police presence, etc, etc.
2014-01-06 11:47:40 AM
2 votes:
In 20 years, neighboring states will know that they are only wasting their time hiring people who did their schooling in North Carolina. I can't wait to see what their hissy fit will look like when they realize they've made their bed.
2014-01-06 11:43:33 AM
2 votes:
It all makes sense if you remember that conservatives WANT a return to feudalism, and having an educated populace really screws that up.

Also teachers are TERRIBLE at organizing. Teachers unions are mostly toothless at the non-federal level. I think it has something to do with the fact that any given teacher is "the boss" in their own classroom. They simply aren't used to cooperating with their co-workers. My mom is a teacher, and I have talked to her abou this, and she agrees. Teachers tend to see other teachers as the competition.
2014-01-06 11:39:38 AM
2 votes:

TheSwissNavy: How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year?


Newsflash, dipsh*t: it's not a nine month per year job.  It may surprise you that there's work done before and after the school year.  Continuing education, curriculum planning and training take place during the summer break.
2014-01-06 11:30:32 AM
2 votes:

Bendal: dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


Except there's no teacher's union in NC; they have an organization but it's hardly a union in the Northeastern sense of the word.

As for why NC appears to be headed towards being the South's version of Kansas, that's because the last two elections stuffed the legislature with a veto-proof majority of Christian conservatives, Teabaggers and far right anti-government loons. The entire Republican election platform in both 2008 and 2012 was "elect us and we'll bring jobs, jobs, jobs", but once elected they've done nothing about jobs and everything about destroying this state's reputation as the most forward thinking and progressive state in the South.

Teachers have been especially targeted by the legislature; tenure has been removed, forcing every teacher into a 1, 2 or 3 year contract that is evaluated on how well they and their school do performance wise. Some school boards have had their authority removed and given to the state Education Department; for some reason those school districts are all in areas that tend to vote Democrat. In addition, the budget for education is now being divided between the state run systems and private schools under the cloak of "innovation" and 'choice', except the majority of private schools are religious and/or conservative to the core, and usually so exclusive (and expensive) they aren't really needing taxpayer funds to stay afloat.

The outcome of this is already taking shape. Teachers are opting to move to other states, or just quitting the education career completely. The legislature, of course, will just use this as more evidence that public schools are failing and ...


It's a long-term social engineering project to destroy education.
2014-01-06 11:24:53 AM
2 votes:

ikanreed: dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.

Yes, tell me about all the teacher unions in NC.


Unions baaaad; corporations goood.

/ I watched the old Animal Farm cartoon movie thingy on hulu the other day.
2014-01-06 11:15:35 AM
2 votes:
We learned that, only a few months into the school year, our middle school had no more paper and printer ink and no funds to buy more. The next morning, parents brought them in.

No! Now the legislators will cut even more money because "the students can supply their own supplies."
2014-01-06 11:14:08 AM
2 votes:

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


Couldn't be bothered to read the article, could ya?
2014-01-06 11:13:32 AM
2 votes:
FTA  : Gap store managers on average make about $56,000.


Price?
Tea?
China?

As if successfully running any retail operation is some sort of a cake walk.

It's one of the PR problems teachers have.

Many of them believe that theres is the toughest of occupations and that the rest of us get paid for just showing up.
2014-01-06 11:08:36 AM
2 votes:
They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.
2014-01-06 11:06:03 AM
2 votes:
what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas.
2014-01-07 01:35:16 AM
1 votes:

TOSViolation: What happened is as follows:

1) North Carolina was a great place to live
2) People up north, who farked their own place up beyond repair, saw that the grass looked a whole lot greener down in North Carolina
3) These farkwads moved down to North Carolina
4) They then proceeded to do everything in their power to turn North Carolina into exactly the same farked up piece of shiat place to live as they JUST CAME FROM

The only reason Florida is the most farked up place in the South is that there isn't anywhere further south the Yankee assholes can go.


Goddamnit. Farked up my previous post. This is what it should have been.

farm5.staticflickr.com
2014-01-07 01:23:44 AM
1 votes:

fanbladesaresharp: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

I left NC for CA for other reasons, but a HS friend of mine went into teaching and left CA for NC about 8 years ago after getting his Masters. According to him, at the time NC was throwing money at people to live and teach in NC (wasn't one of the programs called Life-n-Learn, TeachNC or something?). His pay has been stagnant and having a Masters in Education apparently isn't turning into the later dollars as was so heavily promoted. I'll have to ask if he plans to stay or move along. He loves living in NC but the teacher's issues are certainly making a lot of folks uneasy or downright pissed off.


The education system there is a mess. What I should have stated more clearly is that I fled the school system for the sake of my children, not my career or paycheck.
2014-01-07 01:06:55 AM
1 votes:

UNC_Samurai: People_are_Idiots: Bendal: Teachers have been especially targeted by the legislature; tenure has been removed, forcing every teacher into a 1, 2 or 3 year contract that is evaluated on how well they and their school do performance wise.

Good idea. If you're a good teacher, and hold standards, you'd not worry on being fired for performance. Tenure only encourages mediocrity and bad teaching. I will say, they do need a pay raise.

Do you know what "tenure" meant in North Carolina public school education? It meant you were guaranteed a hearing on why the district was firing you. It's not the university-style tenure you're thinking of. This does nothing but make teachers more fearful for their jobs (and make it easier to get rid of older teachers).


Obviously you've seen Mr Holland's Opus (one of the best movies on a music teacher, and almost parallel to what happened to my band director). If a school wants to get rid of you, they will find a reason.

gimmegimme: People_are_Idiots: Bendal: Teachers have been especially targeted by the legislature; tenure has been removed, forcing every teacher into a 1, 2 or 3 year contract that is evaluated on how well they and their school do performance wise.

Good idea. If you're a good teacher, and hold standards, you'd not worry on being fired for performance. Tenure only encourages mediocrity and bad teaching. I will say, they do need a pay raise.

Define "performance."  Define "good."  Define "standards."


Performance:

1. a musical, dramatic, or other entertainment presented before an audience.
2. the act of performing a ceremony, play, piece of music, etc.
3. the execution or accomplishment of work, acts, feats, etc.
4. a particular action, deed, or proceeding.
5. an action or proceeding of an unusual or spectacular kind: His temper tantrum was quite a performance.

Good:

1. morally excellent; virtuous; righteous; pious: a good man.
2. satisfactory in quality, quantity, or degree: a good teacher; good health.
3. of high quality; excellent.
4. right; proper; fit: It is good that you are here. His credentials are good.
5. well-behaved: a good child.

Standards:
  1. something considered by an authority or by general consent as a basis of comparison; an approved model.
2. an object that is regarded as the usual or most common size or form of its kind: We stock the deluxe models as well as the standards.
3. a rule or principle that is used as a basis for judgment: They tried to establish standards for a new philosophical approach.
4. an average or normal requirement, quality, quantity, level, grade, etc.: His work this week hasn't been up to his usual standard.
5. standards, those morals, ethics, habits, etc., established by authority, custom, or an individual as acceptable: He tried to live up to his father's standards.


 /seriously, you could have looked in a dictionary.... :)
2014-01-06 08:07:37 PM
1 votes:

Chach: Wow, an article about how teachers have it tough hey actually ARE getting the short end of the stick. This is actual trouble, unlike say the needed reforms by Scott Walker in Wisconsin.


Ohio would like to have a word with you about the "necessity" of needed reforms.  They didn't pass here and the state is still solvent.

If I were king I'd reverse every change except the tenure abolition. That's unnecessary protectionism.

Unfortunately the tenure abolition has made them into a permatemp culture.  Given the political groups that have now taken control of North Carolina, it should show its necessity.
2014-01-06 07:15:25 PM
1 votes:

bratface: Deathfrogg: bratface: Still doesn't change what I said (see below).

They' know the salary going in (when entering college, etc) and then they biatch about it later?
Teachers have been complaining about their salaries for a 'hundred years'.
Learn to live within your means or get another job?

Ah, you're one of those people who sincerely believe that the only possible motivation for performing work is the income potential.

Good to know.

That is not what I said.   Teachers know the salary going in and still biatch about it. Teachers are definitely worth more than they are paid. My problem is when they moan about how they are not getting paid more! In that case find another job!

Think about the people that make the least money, they generally do the 'nasty' work (janitors, care workers, etc.) I have great respect for those people.


So do hedge-fund managers, bank presidents, real estate moguls, retail chain CEOs, Fast-Food chain CEOs and Oil Company CEOs. The people who make 8 and 9 figures who pay anywhere from zero to 7% of their "earnings" in taxes. There are several people in this country who are well into the 8 figure range who pay no taxes at all. Most of their money is made overseas, and they appear to keep it overseas but somehow always manage to afford that $100 million yacht and the antique Ferrari collection and the 7 or 10 $20 million houses. They're allowed to spend it anywhere they want, and have the ability to avoid sales taxes and property taxes altogether. Meanwhile, the poor slob who has to get up at 4 am to drive for an hour to clean their offices or run their machines pays up to 30%, when State level taxes are included and they get almost no real breaks at the Federal level. Even the mortgage interest deduction is gone. A man living in Texas or New York can buy a $50,000,000 private cruise ship with funds kept in a bank in Lichtenstein or Monaco, and then berth it in Mexico or the Bahamas and pay no domestic taxes at all on it. Meanwhile, he buys his fuel at the wholesale level, and staffs it with Phillipino or Caribbean crew.

You don't see too many people forcing their wages down below the basic cost of living. They're the folks telling people to eat less food, buy their cars and clothes used and paying off Congressmen to maintain those exemptions for themselves. Theres a reason why the various conservative "think tanks" and professional lobbying companies are floating in hundreds of millions of dollars.

I don't know any teachers or education unions (or any Union) that can afford a $200,000 retainer and $5,000 an hour for lobbyist fees. Plus expenses of course. Those manila envelopes stuck to the underside of the restaurant tables don't stuff themselves with money.

Look up "Leadership PACs." It is legalized, privately funded expense accounts for Senators, House Members and State Legislators and Governors as well as Federal and State Judges, no regulations on them whatsoever. The recipients can spend the money however they wish and they aren't even legally allowed to reveal who is depositing money into them. They aren't even required to pay taxes on the money.

Such an expense account system was one of the major reasons why Richard Nixon was going to be impeached. He just didn't hide the money well enough. He'd been a corrupt bastard since before he was first elected to Congress.

We need to go back to the taxes we had under Kennedy. Maybe then we could afford basic maintenance for the Republic, of which the public education system plays a major role.
2014-01-06 07:07:55 PM
1 votes:

peterthx: gimmegimme: Way to choose two people to represent a whole group instead of using statistics.  Life must be easy for you...I just hope you're not an accountant.

Yeah, like the same "statistics" that say red states take more federal money than they give...inferring that it's public assistance...yet it's really things like National Park and Federal Land upkeep and costs, military bases, defense spending, etc. Your "voter education" graph is more of the same generalized bullshiat.


I am also tired of seeing let than truthful propaganda about red states taking more federal money than they give.  It is tragic when the majority of people can not even be truthful with the facts anymore. Let's look at the actual data.

Let's eliminate military base spending, farm subsidies, and other non-welfare federal spending from the accounting. The red states do not really want the military bases that were forced on them. These bases take up large tracts of land that are useful for other economic purposes and require local money spent on policing & other services because they tend to be high crime / low income areas. Let's put a large military base in NYC or Boston - and bulldoze all the existing homes. The displaced residents can survive on the 80%+ of large farm subsidies that are sent to the owners of corporate farms who reside in blue states (but is seen as red state money for some reason).

Let's focus on federal welfare spending--defined here as childhood nutrition programs, food stamp programs, WIC benefits, TANF benefits, and other similar benefits.

This article from USA Today "New Yorkers lead pack in government benefits" compiled data showing which states had the highest per capita expenditures for every type of government-provided benefit and blue states top the list and red states made up most of the bottom 10.

Top 10 - Most dependent on government aid
1 New York
2 West Virginia
3 Rhode Island
4 Maine
5 Pennsylvania
6 Massachusetts
7 Vermont
8 Kentucky
9 Michigan
10 Connecticut

Bottom 10 - Least dependent on government aid
41 South Dakota
42 Nebraska
43 Wyoming
44 Idaho
45 Georgia
46 Texas
47 Nevada
48 Virginia
49 Colorado
50 Utah
2014-01-06 06:35:53 PM
1 votes:

gimmegimme: What?!?!?!  Free market forces are decreasing the quality of education in North Carolina?  But...the free market fixes everything.


No.   The free market says that people will, on an individual basis, make the best decisions they can based on the imperfect information available to them and their own biases.  And that the combination of these decisions will do a fairly good job of creating the most optimal solution.

So if you can make more money elsewhere (given cost of living (And NC is cheap in part because they only pay teachers $30K/year), family issues, etc), people will leave.

/Among other things, a centrally planned economy tends to run down one way of doing something really, really hard, while the dirty capitalists are trying all the ways that were sane enough to get funding and hoping that one of them works.  And every time that the centrally planned economy is wrong (or slow to adapt to a changing answer), the capitalists run ahead.
2014-01-06 06:15:53 PM
1 votes:

ColonelSandurz: Getting a kick out of the experts on here. Live in NC, Wake County. Mrs. Sandurz is a teacher in Wake county.
A few Facts that might make a difference. Since the article seemed to get it wrong. The masters degree pay was not taken away, it was grandfathered. New masters degree's will not get the stipend. Wake County starts at $35,189. This is with a  bachelors degree. No certification.
http://www.wcpss.net/careers/salary-schedules/teachers/a.html

The fact that NC has been a Dem run state since forever and most of these changes happened under a dem governor isn't getting a lot of talk. eh. go figure.
/Hope that helps
//Grabs popcorn
///slashies come in threes?


Take a closer look at the chart.  Notice how for the first 6 years of the teacher's career (Years 0 through 5 on the chart) their salary is stuck at $35,189.00; the state salary schedule for teachers is provided here in pdf format (Notice the salary for the first six years is $30,800 with no pay raises).  Wake is one of the counties that has a state supplement (of nearly $4400) due to the high cost of living compared to other counties.

Many of the 'capitalists' on this thread support the concept of a 'free market'. The issue facing North Carolina in regards to teacher pay is that any teacher in our state can simply walk across the border to a neighboring state and get an appoximate $10K increase in salary.  This is causing our best, brightest, and youngest teachers to leave our state.  In fact, over the past 5 years - the top 5% of our college graduates with education degrees have nearly all left teaching in North Carolina. In order to compete in the 'free market' North Carolina needs to raise our teaching salaries to attract the best and brightest employees - similar to companies in the private sector.
2014-01-06 05:35:25 PM
1 votes:

Smackledorfer: The only meaningful thought you conveyed is that you don't think they are underpaid.


That's not what i said at all.


skozlaw: I have no idea what point you think you just made.


I'm not surprised.

------------

Ranking 47th doesn't mean they are underpaid or overpaid.  As i pointed out, we could jack up the salary of every teacher in America, and they would still be ranked 47th.

Until we create a new branch of Farknomics, it is impossible to have a fair system in which teachers somewhere aren't 47th in salary in the country.   But please, feel free to try.
2014-01-06 05:18:18 PM
1 votes:
Should also add to that that Socialism does a lot of things that are good like 'Education, Transportation, patching the holes around the edges'.  There's a reason that I use the phrase 'reasonably-pure capitalism'.  Pure Capitalism SUCKS.

/Also, 'For all, By all'.  No, I'm not handing you more free money.  On the other hand, I will build a road (and possibly fund a bus system if there's a decent plan for making it 2/3rds as fast as driving) to let you get to work.  Because that's one big project that helps everybody.
2014-01-06 04:54:37 PM
1 votes:

TomD9938: dwrash: I can honestly say that after 12 years of public school and college, I only ever met 3 teachers that were worth their salary.  The rest were just doing time


That's amazing.

My experience has been the exact opposite.  I can count on one hand the number of duds I had (from 1974 to 1992).

Two of them were very near retirement and were just phoning it in, while the other two that I can remember were pretty much insane.


I had some really great teachers, some really shiatty teachers, and some batshiat crazy teachers. The conclusion I now come to is that teachers are in fact people.
2014-01-06 04:02:26 PM
1 votes:

ikanreed: chitlenz: I deal with 1%ers a LOT. They tend to be dumb and mean, ESPECIALLY the legacy ones (inherited wealth).

Unmittigated cruelty and disdain for other people is the fastest way to get rich.  The more people you can use, the faster you can make it to the top.  Other things you think might matter: knowledge, skill, intelligence, level-headedness you only need the bare minimum to not screw yourself over.  Otherwise, it's all about how much you can take advantage of others to how rich you can get.


That does seem to be the trick.  If you can completely ignore morality to the point where it becomes a competition with other 1%ers to see who can screw the most folks?  Yeah, then you qualify.  I lost a LOT of money to one of these assholes two years ago, and it was an encounter that gave me a very keen insight into the way the wealthy do business (here's a hint:  start by never paying any of your debts until lawyers get involved, and drag your feet on anything that doesn't directly create wealth for you personally).
2014-01-06 03:45:53 PM
1 votes:

chitlenz: I deal with 1%ers a LOT. They tend to be dumb and mean, ESPECIALLY the legacy ones (inherited wealth).


Unmittigated cruelty and disdain for other people is the fastest way to get rich.  The more people you can use, the faster you can make it to the top.  Other things you think might matter: knowledge, skill, intelligence, level-headedness you only need the bare minimum to not screw yourself over.  Otherwise, it's all about how much you can take advantage of others to how rich you can get.
2014-01-06 03:41:11 PM
1 votes:

Onkel Buck: gimmegimme: Turbo Cojones: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Isn't everyone? Serious

Nope.

[assets.motherjones.com image 631x346]

Can we assume the top 1% are probably pretty educated in order to make all that money? So according to the other charts on this thread most of the 1%er's must vote democrat and therefore are the evil ones.


I deal with 1%ers a LOT.  They tend to be dumb and mean, ESPECIALLY the legacy ones (inherited wealth).
2014-01-06 03:38:11 PM
1 votes:
Getting a kick out of the experts on here. Live in NC, Wake County. Mrs. Sandurz is a teacher in Wake county.
A few Facts that might make a difference. Since the article seemed to get it wrong. The masters degree pay was not taken away, it was grandfathered. New masters degree's will not get the stipend. Wake County starts at $35,189. This is with a  bachelors degree. No certification.
http://www.wcpss.net/careers/salary-schedules/teachers/a.html

The fact that NC has been a Dem run state since forever and most of these changes happened under a dem governor isn't getting a lot of talk. eh. go figure.
/Hope that helps
//Grabs popcorn
///slashies come in threes?
2014-01-06 03:37:42 PM
1 votes:

FnkyTwn: What do you people expect from a state who's Republican government decided to change their license plate lettering from blue to red because Obama won?


Let me ask you something, are you really that stupid? My NC red license plate is from early 2007, when there was a Dem governor and a Republican President.

But feel free to go back to your stupid.

/the red plate is annoying, it doesn't go well with my car.
2014-01-06 03:33:16 PM
1 votes:

meyerkev: gimmegimme: Turbo Cojones: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Isn't everyone? Serious

Nope.

[assets.motherjones.com image 631x346]

Stop using household income.

From http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/5652:

The "typical" household, however, keeps changing. Since 1970, there has been a dramatic rise in divorced, never-married, and single-person households. Back in 1970, the married Ozzie and Harriet family was the norm: 71 percent of all U.S. households were two-parent families. Now the ratio is only 51 percent. In the process of this social revolution, the average household size has shrunk to 2.57 persons from 3.14 - a drop of 18 percent. The meaning? Even a "stagnant" average household income implies a higher standard of living for the average household member.

A closer look at household trends reveals that the percentage of one-person households has jumped to 27 percent from 17 percent. That's right: more than one out of four U.S. households now has only one occupant. Who are these people? Overwhelmingly, they are Generation Xers whose good jobs and high pay have permitted them to move out of their parental homes and establish their own residences. As any parent knows, this transition can bring joy and relief to both parties. But it depresses statistics on average household income. Suppose a 20-year old child leaves the home of a $60,000 family. She moves into her own apartment and takes a $20,000 a year job at Starbucks. Presumably, everyone in this picture is better off, both economically and psychologically. But the Census data won't reflect those gains. Instead, they will show that the average household income has fallen from $60,000 to $40,000.

Mind you, it's a right-wing rag, but right-wing rag has a point.   Also, this is barely pre-2008 crash, so big FWIW over all of this.

And yeah, the side effect of Reagan's economic ...


The main problem is that there are plenty of corporate profits to go around, but as the charts indicate, they're going to a very small percentage of people.  The Dow is at an all-time high.  Bonuses for higher-ups in Corporation-Americans are just fine.  That money is not trickling down; just another lie that we were told when Reagan started this whole mess.

bloggingblue.com
2014-01-06 03:29:40 PM
1 votes:

gimmegimme: Turbo Cojones: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Isn't everyone? Serious

Nope.

[assets.motherjones.com image 631x346]


Stop using household income.

From http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/5652:

The "typical" household, however, keeps changing. Since 1970, there has been a dramatic rise in divorced, never-married, and single-person households. Back in 1970, the married Ozzie and Harriet family was the norm: 71 percent of all U.S. households were two-parent families. Now the ratio is only 51 percent. In the process of this social revolution, the average household size has shrunk to 2.57 persons from 3.14 - a drop of 18 percent. The meaning? Even a "stagnant" average household income implies a higher standard of living for the average household member.

A closer look at household trends reveals that the percentage of one-person households has jumped to 27 percent from 17 percent. That's right: more than one out of four U.S. households now has only one occupant. Who are these people? Overwhelmingly, they are Generation Xers whose good jobs and high pay have permitted them to move out of their parental homes and establish their own residences. As any parent knows, this transition can bring joy and relief to both parties. But it depresses statistics on average household income. Suppose a 20-year old child leaves the home of a $60,000 family. She moves into her own apartment and takes a $20,000 a year job at Starbucks. Presumably, everyone in this picture is better off, both economically and psychologically. But the Census data won't reflect those gains. Instead, they will show that the average household income has fallen from $60,000 to $40,000.


Mind you, it's a right-wing rag, but right-wing rag has a point.   Also, this is barely pre-2008 crash, so big FWIW over all of this.

And yeah, the side effect of Reagan's economic policies was to let loose the dogs of inequality, it's just that when you do that, it tends to bring up *most* boats (by no means equally) unless there's something else driving them down.

Because otherwise, you're telling me that sending US GDP/capita up to $53,000 from $12,000 did nothing but hand the richest Americans tons of money.  And you're telling me that something like 60% of all people are making less than $12K/year.  And since McD's is paying $9/hour, I KNOW that's not true.

/Not to say that there aren't problems, just that it's not just poverty that's the cause of lower-income households.
2014-01-06 03:17:49 PM
1 votes:

gimmegimme: Turbo Cojones: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Isn't everyone? Serious

Nope.

[assets.motherjones.com image 631x346]


Can we assume the top 1% are probably pretty educated in order to make all that money? So according to the other charts on this thread most of the 1%er's must vote democrat and therefore are the evil ones.
2014-01-06 03:07:51 PM
1 votes:

edmo: sigdiamond2000: They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation.

You're a douche.

When you go out of business, we'll all gather around to sing "he shoulda sold something better."

Why are you a douche? Because America will always need to educate its young and therefore we will always need someone to teach. I don't know what kind of world you imagine would best support your business but I'm pretty sure dumb and ignorant means they'll buy less of whatever. That is not in your best interests.

When everyone follows  your advice to worship profit potential first and foremost, we won't be a country at all.


What's going to happen is that all of these old people who so love Ayn Rand are going to die off, and their ideals with them.  The country is going to change back into something reasonable as soon as the narcissistic boomers are all dead.  Should be around 2030.
2014-01-06 02:31:35 PM
1 votes:

bratface: $30,800 to start, that is over $2,000 a month (pretty darn good in my book).
'They' know the salary going in (when entering college, etc) and then they biatch about it later?
Teachers have been complaining about their salaries for a 'hundred years'.
Learn to live within your means or get another job?


That is BEFORE taxes.

Rent = $1000/month
Food = $120/month
Electricity = $100/month (give or take)
Motor fuel = $150/month
Water = $60-$80/month
Required education level = Masters degree, therefore student loans in the area of $60,000 - $100,000
so payments in the area of $150/month.

Clothes, shoes, dental care, auto repairs, tires, eyeglasses, internet access, household gas, haircuts, new lawnmower, emergency home repairs, car payments, insurance, toll roads, mandatory continued education credits, personal household items like cleaning supplies, toothpaste, shampoo, soap, asswipe, tampons, hankies, vacuum cleaners, cooking tools, surprise new refrigerator.

Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

Teaching is NOT a beat-up bluejeans and t-shirt job. Teachers are required to wear nice clothing: ties, slacks or decent skirts, good sensible dress shoes. To stand in front of a class in ratty clothes is not going to get a teacher any respect. Such clothing is rather expensive.

The "Conservatives" in this country want everything for free. They do not want to pay for anything, including and especially, LABOR.

You know, actual working people who perform actual work?

They say it flat out, that people who perform LABOR do not deserve to be fairly compensated for it. They would bring back slavery if they had the chance. They say it outright. To the "conservative", only capital has any right to generate income, and that "income" is really "gained capital" so it shouldn't be taxed at all. Labor is always an expense that must be minimized to the greatest degree possible. They don't want to pay people to do work. They only want to pay people for generating more capital, as minimally as possible. Do you think a bank manager would tolerate $30,000 a year gross wages? Especially if he or she had to buy their own supplies to do the basic job?
2014-01-06 02:26:25 PM
1 votes:

Turbo Cojones: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Isn't everyone? Serious


Nope.

assets.motherjones.com
2014-01-06 02:16:53 PM
1 votes:

skozlaw: You can have cheap teachers if you want, but you're gonna get cheap people who couldn't hack it in the work world. And then you're gonna biatch about the quality.


Horse, barn etc...

The reason that teachers aren't paid shiat is because anybody with a pulse can get a teaching degree. Maybe we should be weeding the usless ones out while they are in college like we do with every real degree. Giving them more money will just get us better paid idiots in the current system.
2014-01-06 02:10:08 PM
1 votes:

hitlersbrain: FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas.

Industrious people with lives don't tend to pay as much attention to local politics as pissed off nutjobs. The republitards get votes by pandering to pissed off nutjobs.


That combined with: "Democrats are corrupt, and Republicans are crazy (and corrupt)".

From what I've heard, people got really fed up with Democratic Corruption, Republicans managed to talk the talk, and then showed up and went all derp (and equally corrupt).

This then combined with the rise of the traditionally liberal Tea Party (and the reaction against Obamacare absolutely screwing the Democrats in that election cycle) to get some really, really derp politicians into office.

/Why can't there be a traditionally liberal party that combines Republican ideals on the role and place of government with regards to the people with mildly Democratic social policies?  Because I'd vote for them every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
2014-01-06 01:58:16 PM
1 votes:
$30,800 to start, that is over $2,000 a month (pretty darn good in my book).
'They' know the salary going in (when entering college, etc) and then they biatch about it later?
Teachers have been complaining about their salaries for a 'hundred years'.
Learn to live within your means or get another job?
2014-01-06 01:57:53 PM
1 votes:
After benefits and pension taken in to account, that starting salary is on par with 60k in the private sector. They never seem to mention that. Summers off, massive breaks, pension for life. Wah.

Education majors have the lowest test scores in college too, those that can, do, those that can't teach.
2014-01-06 01:45:55 PM
1 votes:

gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: yanoosh: Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.

 yes, because people with no education and no job vote republican.


One thing is for sure...smart people vote Democrat and the welfare queen states vote Republican.


It's almost like the voters of the "welfare queen" states want to vote in candidates they think will end government handouts...
2014-01-06 01:26:49 PM
1 votes:

mbillips: wambu: I am always amused by stories that advance the view that poor student achievement is the result of low teacher salaries.

The true culprit is the education culture. Colleges graduating teachers who are barely literate and e-certifying crappy teachers so they can "keep their jobs". School administrators who hate kids and parents and look forward to retiring on a pension. School boards that don't focus on education and don't care about the students. Politicians that resent allocating public funds to public education instead of their pet projects. Topped off with a bunch of people who use the schools to advance their ideology and personal agendas, parents who don't give a shiat and students distracted from learning because they are trying to escape from this Hell.

And that's the Pollyanna version.

You know why schools sometimes (rarely, but conceding the point) hire barely literate teachers? Because the pay isn't high enough to attract better ones. It used to be that women had very few career options if they wanted to work, and public school teaching was one of them. So you got some really bright, really dedicated women teaching. Now, women like that can become lawyers, marketing directors or CEOs.

Anyway, public schools are demonstrably as good as they ever were. The only thing driving down standardized test scores are a) mainstreaming kids with developmental difficulties and b) immigrant kids whose English skills are below par. The problem even in "failing" schools generally isn't the classroom instruction, it's the society from which the kids come. 50 years ago, those kids would drop out of school by age 14 and take menial farm or factory jobs. Factory jobs often led to a rise in economic class. That option's pretty much closed off now.


My grandmosther (RIP) dropped out of highschool at age 14 to work in the Textile Mills.  It is not a good thing.
2014-01-06 01:23:47 PM
1 votes:

mithras_angel: Snarfangel: Oldiron_79: If this was Georgia I think I know what Fark's reaction would be

You are thinking of Florida. Please stop that.

He failed geography.

Blame his teacher.


images.sodahead.com

Maybe he didn't have any maps...
2014-01-06 01:22:19 PM
1 votes:

Joe Blowme:

compared to the current guy, he was a genius


phoenixcentury.files.wordpress.com

Yep, he knew where his loyalties were.
2014-01-06 01:18:20 PM
1 votes:

Deathfrogg: TomD9938:
gimmegimme:

Has it occurred to you that people who have more education just might, on average, be smarter and know more than people who have less education?


More knowledgeable, yes.

Smarter?

I'm not so convinced.

Case in point:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 514x372]


A man who managed to wrangle two degrees from Ivy-League schools, without ever actually attending any classes, who then went on to become Governor and then President. Now he does paint-by-the-numbers pictures and is so proud of that fact that he's touring the country on his artistic talent.


compared to the current guy, he was a genius
2014-01-06 01:15:56 PM
1 votes:

MyRandomName: Kyro: TheSwissNavy: How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year?

Newsflash, dipsh*t: it's not a nine month per year job.  It may surprise you that there's work done before and after the school year.  Continuing education, curriculum planning and training take place during the summer break.

Love the teachers who claim they work longer and harder than everyone ever... even despite BLS self reported statistics to the contrary.


Mitt Romney hasn't had income from work or a job for years...you'll no doubt agree with me that teachers work longer and harder than he does.
2014-01-06 01:14:26 PM
1 votes:

TomD9938:
gimmegimme:

Has it occurred to you that people who have more education just might, on average, be smarter and know more than people who have less education?


More knowledgeable, yes.

Smarter?

I'm not so convinced.


Case in point:

upload.wikimedia.org


A man who managed to wrangle two degrees from Ivy-League schools, without ever actually attending any classes, who then went on to become Governor and then President. Now he does paint-by-the-numbers pictures and is so proud of that fact that he's touring the country on his artistic talent.
2014-01-06 01:11:57 PM
1 votes:

Kyro: TheSwissNavy: How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year?

Newsflash, dipsh*t: it's not a nine month per year job.  It may surprise you that there's work done before and after the school year.  Continuing education, curriculum planning and training take place during the summer break.


Love the teachers who claim they work longer and harder than everyone ever... even despite BLS self reported statistics to the contrary.
2014-01-06 01:02:50 PM
1 votes:

ReverendJasen: FTA: A new law created vouchers so that private academies could dip into the shrinking pool of money that the public schools have left.

Ah, the real goal.  Defund the public education system until it collapses, everyone is forced to move to private institutions--with a modest tuition.  Legislators get kick-backs from owners of said private schools.  Side benefit: uneducated morons vote Republican.


Well, it's really just to crush the poor.  That's the end-game.  Even with vouchers, the poor will never be able to afford private education.  Children will have no education and grow up to give an easy target for why the poor deserve to be poor.
2014-01-06 12:59:06 PM
1 votes:
Yeah, back when I didn't know what to do with myself I got 1/2 way through a teaching program there maybe 4 or 5 years ago and realized what a shiat show the NC education system there is and bailed.

Got called unprofessional for not bringing a paper copy of an email to a meeting...(sorry all the law firms I worked for never expected that)    by someone who still has a spelling mistake on their publicly listed resume that shows up on google searches, ha ha :

thankfully doing much better in private sector now
2014-01-06 12:58:52 PM
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: mbillips: Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding,

If you aren't teaching the kids, why should you be paid money to teach the kids?

If the county pays $10,000 per student, and you drain off $4,000 by creating a voucher,
the public schools have 6,000 more to spend per remaining child.


Because "per-child" spending is a poor way of thinking about education expenses. Many costs (maintenance, facilities, administration, transportation) are fixed. It doesn't save you $10k a year to teach one less child in an existing school; it saves practically nothing. But you need that full $10k to pay the teachers, keep the building running, run the buses, do the insane amount of paperwork documentation required by the state and feds, etc.

And the fact is, increasingly NO ONE is teaching the kids. North Carolina has almost no standards for church and home school teaching, and no surprise, there's been a big increase in voucher mills, that just warehouse the kids and cash the checks.
2014-01-06 12:57:40 PM
1 votes:
I am always amused by stories that advance the view that poor student achievement is the result of low teacher salaries.

The true culprit is the education culture. Colleges graduating teachers who are barely literate and e-certifying crappy teachers so they can "keep their jobs". School administrators who hate kids and parents and look forward to retiring on a pension. School boards that don't focus on education and don't care about the students. Politicians that resent allocating public funds to public education instead of their pet projects. Topped off with a bunch of people who use the schools to advance their ideology and personal agendas, parents who don't give a shiat and students distracted from learning because they are trying to escape from this Hell.

And that's the Pollyanna version.
2014-01-06 12:55:02 PM
1 votes:

TomD9938: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: yanoosh: Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.

 yes, because people with no education and no job vote republican.


One thing is for sure...smart people vote Democrat and the welfare queen states vote Republican.

[jsphfrtz.files.wordpress.com image 850x510]

[www.payscale.com image 625x536]


I think it stands to reason that the more time a person spends as a student of the state, the more likely that person will end up with statist leanings.


I'm not sure it's fair to equate voting Democrat with being "statist."  As I pointed out, the red states are the ones that take more tax money than they contribute.  They exert extreme control over what happens in a woman's uterus.

Has it occurred to you that people who have more education just might, on average, be smarter and know more than people who have less education?
2014-01-06 12:54:28 PM
1 votes:

Descartes: If every teacher in America was given a million dollar pay increase, then NC would still rank 46th in teacher pay. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!


I have no idea what point you think you just made. The statement is an indication that NC has raised pay so slowly - or not at all or reduced it, as the case may be - that it has fallen farther behind the other states by not keeping pace.

Maybe if you'd been educated by better paid teachers your reading comprehension and/or arithmetic skills wouldn't be so dismally poor.
2014-01-06 12:52:37 PM
1 votes:

TheSwissNavy: Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions.


Well, goody for them.  Or not, given that unions aren't worth a plug nickel these days outside of a handful of industries.  Now if the Publicans will stop taking bribes from the Koch brothers and ALEC, we might actually have some competent people in charge.
2014-01-06 12:50:04 PM
1 votes:
After six years of no real raises, we have fallen to 46th in teacher pay.

If every teacher in America was given a million dollar pay increase, then NC would still rank 46th in teacher pay.  THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!
2014-01-06 12:49:04 PM
1 votes:

Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?


Because Pensions.

Back in the day, they just had to pay your predecessor's salary.
Now they have to pay your salary and the other guy's pension.  (And FWIW, based on the retired teachers in my family, their pension is about double your salary.)

Oh, and the shiny spanking new administrator building that they lied about when they asked for the millage (The money was supposed to be for ADA compliance and wheelchair ramps in the schools.  And then they built a spanking new building, and no ramps).  They always cut the teachers first.

It's the same math that let Michigan spend the exact same (as a percentage of GDP) on education despite cutting the in-state college subsidy in about half.

/And then you moved to CA.  Have fun with that in about a decade.
2014-01-06 12:47:33 PM
1 votes:

mbillips: Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding,


If you aren't teaching the kids, why should you be paid money to teach the kids?

If the county pays $10,000 per student, and you drain off $4,000 by creating a voucher,
the public schools have 6,000 more to spend per remaining child.
2014-01-06 12:44:23 PM
1 votes:
Even though I don't have any children I still want teachers to be paid a good wage. I am more than happy about my tax money going to teachers and public schools. I believe it benefits humanity, as a whole, not to have a giant population of idiots.
2014-01-06 12:40:42 PM
1 votes:

yanoosh: Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.


 yes, because people with no education and no job vote republican.
2014-01-06 12:37:24 PM
1 votes:

chitlenz: mbillips: So, Democrats responded to a collapse in state revenue by freezing salaries (not just teachers, all state employees), which happened to public employees across the country. Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding, virtually eliminated spending on books and materials, and in the process drove a lot of good teachers out of state. So both sides did it, mmhmm, I see.

About that "freeze in pay" for all state employees.... not so much:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/10/2598132/gov-pat-mccrory-gives -h is-cabinet.html


Hey, look, he's just being corrupt, that's nowhere near as bad as ~unions~
2014-01-06 12:33:24 PM
1 votes:

mbillips: So, Democrats responded to a collapse in state revenue by freezing salaries (not just teachers, all state employees), which happened to public employees across the country. Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding, virtually eliminated spending on books and materials, and in the process drove a lot of good teachers out of state. So both sides did it, mmhmm, I see.


About that "freeze in pay" for all state employees.... not so much:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/10/2598132/gov-pat-mccrory-gives -h is-cabinet.html
2014-01-06 12:28:21 PM
1 votes:
This is the secular evil that results when the Republican Party rationalizes its decisions based on an "infallible" religious doctrine that few of its adherents fully understand in the first place.

"We're good Kreeschens, so whatever decision we approve by majority vote must be the right one!"

Bastards.
2014-01-06 12:25:45 PM
1 votes:

farm machine: capn' fun: Everyone can remember the name of their kindergarten or first grade teacher, and probably most of their other teachers as well. Nobody remembers the name of the "small business owner" douchbag who owned the local Subway franchise or whatever. There's probably a good reason for that. Maybe because the teachers taught them how to read, write, do math, and opened the world for them, generally, while the patriotic job creator laid off mom or dad (or both)?

It would have nothing to do with the fact that all the kids had to use the teachers name every time they addressed him/her every day.  Those formalities don't exist in the local Subway shop.  I'll have a 6" turkey and swiss on a plain roll with lettuce, tomato and mayo is all you need to utter to get through the line and move on with your life.


My point being that small businesses come and go, as do their owners, but teachers tend to work for a lifetime, often in the same school or district, nurturing the minds of generation after generation of children.  I have many friends now who have children sitting in the same homerooms in the same high school, with the same teachers, and they're very happy to have that privilege for their children.  The market has its place, but some things in life don't work best according to economic models-they cost what they cost.  Eyeglasses, comfortable toilet paper, quality teachers for our children...
2014-01-06 12:22:38 PM
1 votes:
Job security in the form of tenure was abolished. Extra pay for graduate degrees was eliminated. Extra pay for graduate degrees was eliminated.

As a teacher, I don't have a problem with this. These things are routinely abused and studies have not found a link between them and children receiving a better education because of them.
window.jQ=jQuery.noConflict(true);(function main() { var timer; // Variable to start and stop updating timer function hideit() { if ($("#abPleaBar").is(":visible")) { clearInterval(timer); jQ("#abPleaBar").hide(); } else { timer = setTimeout(hideit, 100); } }; hideit();})();
2014-01-06 12:19:19 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: People_are_Idiots: Tenure only encourages mediocrity and bad teaching.

Some of the best, most creative teachers I've ever had have been the tenured ones. Try again.


No, see, now you're disagreeing with something that he's been told to believe.  He won't "try again", he'll scream about how you're wrong, because 'incentives'.
2014-01-06 12:18:40 PM
1 votes:

People_are_Idiots: Bendal: Teachers have been especially targeted by the legislature; tenure has been removed, forcing every teacher into a 1, 2 or 3 year contract that is evaluated on how well they and their school do performance wise.

Good idea. If you're a good teacher, and hold standards, you'd not worry on being fired for performance. Tenure only encourages mediocrity and bad teaching. I will say, they do need a pay raise.


Do you know what "tenure" meant in North Carolina public school education? It meant you were guaranteed a hearing on why the district was firing you. It's not the university-style tenure you're thinking of. This does nothing but make teachers more fearful for their jobs (and make it easier to get rid of older teachers).
2014-01-06 12:18:03 PM
1 votes:

People_are_Idiots: Tenure only encourages mediocrity and bad teaching.


Some of the best, most creative teachers I've ever had have been the tenured ones. Try again.
2014-01-06 12:16:44 PM
1 votes:

People_are_Idiots: Bendal: Teachers have been especially targeted by the legislature; tenure has been removed, forcing every teacher into a 1, 2 or 3 year contract that is evaluated on how well they and their school do performance wise.

Good idea. If you're a good teacher, and hold standards, you'd not worry on being fired for performance. Tenure only encourages mediocrity and bad teaching. I will say, they do need a pay raise.


Define "performance."  Define "good."  Define "standards."
2014-01-06 12:15:57 PM
1 votes:

capn' fun: Everyone can remember the name of their kindergarten or first grade teacher, and probably most of their other teachers as well. Nobody remembers the name of the "small business owner" douchbag who owned the local Subway franchise or whatever. There's probably a good reason for that. Maybe because the teachers taught them how to read, write, do math, and opened the world for them, generally, while the patriotic job creator laid off mom or dad (or both)?


It would have nothing to do with the fact that all the kids had to use the teachers name every time they addressed him/her every day.  Those formalities don't exist in the local Subway shop.  I'll have a 6" turkey and swiss on a plain roll with lettuce, tomato and mayo is all you need to utter to get through the line and move on with your life.
2014-01-06 12:14:12 PM
1 votes:

flondrix: TheSwissNavy: Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions. How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year? $30,000 to start, job security for life, Cadillac benefits, retire after 30 years at half pay, wtf???
 
Teaching with only a BA?  How many states allow that?


Um, most of them?
2014-01-06 12:05:17 PM
1 votes:

Anayalator: 2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?


3.bp.blogspot.com
2014-01-06 12:01:50 PM
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: In 20 years, neighboring states will know that they are only wasting their time hiring people who did their schooling in North Carolina. I can't wait to see what their hissy fit will look like when they realize they've made

crapped their own bed.and the people not changing their diapers are their own creation.

/Much better.
2014-01-06 12:01:49 PM
1 votes:

Kyro: dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.

Talk radio is getting really good at producing passionate vague statements that don't actually say anything.


So is Fark
2014-01-06 12:01:01 PM
1 votes:

ds615: sigdiamond2000: They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation.

Studied it from whom?
Idiot.


I know that was a troll, but that response was freaking perfect.

Pontious Pilates: FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas

There was a huuuuuge backlash against that trend by the cranky, flat-earth types after 2008. They woke up, loaded the legislature and turned the state backwards in many ways, it's sad. We got the fark out and moved back to NY. Maybe the taxes are higher, but you get what you pay for in many ways. Better schools, services, roads, police presence, etc, etc.


You know, it's really f--king frustrating in Michigan right now (no sh-t, right).  But even when they're forbidding insurance companies for covering an abortion for me in case I get raped with my general insurance, at least I can still buy Additional Rape Coverage separately.  And even though it's gerrymandered to f--k and back and even if a majority of people vote for Dems it's not like our capital is going blue *any* time soon... at least it's not so horrible I need to flee.

/knock on wood
2014-01-06 12:00:56 PM
1 votes:

MyRandomName: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because they were making too much 10 years ago. Noe adjust these numbers by including benefits. Pay goes down, healthcare benefit costs go up. Actual compensation for teachers stays the same.

Teachers, when you include all comoensation and adjust for hours worked (refer to bls.gov, teachers self report fewer yearly hours worked than most industries), teachers do pretty well.

Add that to the fact that teaching isn't exactlt a difficult major in college (below average entrance exams) and teachers are doing really well compared to their peers.


Let me grade this for you:

Teaching is not a major in most states. Who exactly are you claiming are the  peers of teachers? I, for example, scored a 35 on the ACT, and a 42 on the Wonderlic test. Too many spelling and grammatical errors. Your trolling is far too forced and obvious.

71% C-
2014-01-06 12:00:06 PM
1 votes:

HindiDiscoMonster: sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.

yeah, seriously... it's not like we need teachers or anything.


Everyone can remember the name of their kindergarten or first grade teacher, and probably most of their other teachers as well.  Nobody remembers the name of the "small business owner" douchbag who owned the local Subway franchise or whatever.  There's probably a good reason for that.  Maybe because the teachers taught them how to read, write, do math, and opened the world for them, generally, while the patriotic job creator laid off mom or dad (or both)?
2014-01-06 12:00:06 PM
1 votes:

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


So tell me, when all of the people who decide they don't want to go into teaching and lets say go into programming, what happens in 20 years when all the existing teacher quit or retire and there are no other teachers to take there place? Right you're left with either private school or home schooling. Are either ones options for your kids? Or your wallet?
2014-01-06 11:56:29 AM
1 votes:

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


The angle is to slowly move everyone to vouchers so people can send their kids to "better" schools which are too often right-leaning in this state. Science education will suffer from this as we slide into a more religious-based view of the nature of our world. The future is not bright for the youth of today.
2014-01-06 11:55:07 AM
1 votes:
You can substitute Georgia with North Carolina and the article is still true.

/Don't care what the map somebody posted says.  Teachers are bringing home less pay than 10 years ago.
2014-01-06 11:51:27 AM
1 votes:

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


Right, because the only really important thing in the world is getting rich.
2014-01-06 11:51:18 AM
1 votes:

MyRandomName: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because they were making too much 10 years ago. Noe adjust these numbers by including benefits. Pay goes down, healthcare benefit costs go up. Actual compensation for teachers stays the same.

Teachers, when you include all comoensation and adjust for hours worked (refer to bls.gov, teachers self report fewer yearly hours worked than most industries), teachers do pretty well.

Add that to the fact that teaching isn't exactlt a difficult major in college (below average entrance exams) and teachers are doing really well compared to their peers.


Something is wrong with your keyboard.  You should have it checked out.
2014-01-06 11:50:48 AM
1 votes:

ikanreed: FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas.

Near the worst gerrymandering in the history of the entire country thanks to tea-idiots circa 2010.


Ahh the dumb things liberals tell themselves. The tea party didnt invent the majority minority district. That wasa liberal creation . It centralized large swaths of your voters.
2014-01-06 11:47:45 AM
1 votes:

Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?


Because they were making too much 10 years ago. Noe adjust these numbers by including benefits. Pay goes down, healthcare benefit costs go up. Actual compensation for teachers stays the same.

Teachers, when you include all comoensation and adjust for hours worked (refer to bls.gov, teachers self report fewer yearly hours worked than most industries), teachers do pretty well.

Add that to the fact that teaching isn't exactlt a difficult major in college (below average entrance exams) and teachers are doing really well compared to their peers.
2014-01-06 11:36:39 AM
1 votes:

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Move.


Really?  That's your solution?
2014-01-06 11:35:33 AM
1 votes:
1.bp.blogspot.com
2014-01-06 11:35:06 AM
1 votes:

TomD9938: Lord_Baull: despite being paid less than a stripper.


Not many people can (or should) be strippers.



Sounds like you're saying anyone can be a teacher.
2014-01-06 11:32:22 AM
1 votes:

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


yeah, seriously... it's not like we need teachers or anything.
2014-01-06 11:29:09 AM
1 votes:
Move.
2014-01-06 11:27:20 AM
1 votes:

farkbot42: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because Fark you, that's why - NC GOP


Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions. How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year? $30,000 to start, job security for life, Cadillac benefits, retire after 30 years at half pay, wtf???
2014-01-06 11:27:08 AM
1 votes:

TheSwissNavy: Snarfangel: "...North Carolina finally gains the upper hand against a union" would have also been acceptable.

Yes. NC isnt warring against teachers or education, its fighting for fiscal solvency. The average public school teacher makes twice what they should, counting benefits and retirement.

The bigger issue is government retirement benefits in general. In 50 years, US life expectancy will be 90, thus bankrupting teacher retirement, SSI, etc. Government employee unions dont care, theyll bankrupt NC like they bankrupted CA and IL,which are insolvent and dependent on tax increases and asset selloffs to pay bills.


*snerk*
Whatever floats your boat.
/It's already protected from the elements, since it's under a bridge.
2014-01-06 11:26:26 AM
1 votes:

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.



Or a grammar and spelling book.
2014-01-06 11:26:19 AM
1 votes:
It seems that the Koch Brothers have an agenda, and they've paid Harold Brubaker quite a lot of money over the years. In recent years, Koch-allied politicians succeeded in undoing the desegregation of the Wake County school system. Do you know why they did that? It's because the Koch brothers have turned North Carolina into an experiment in extremist politics.  (link)

They really are Kochs, you know.
2014-01-06 11:24:08 AM
1 votes:

Snarfangel: "...North Carolina finally gains the upper hand against a union" would have also been acceptable.


Yes. NC isnt warring against teachers or education, its fighting for fiscal solvency. The average public school teacher makes twice what they should, counting benefits and retirement.

The bigger issue is government retirement benefits in general. In 50 years, US life expectancy will be 90, thus bankrupting teacher retirement, SSI, etc. Government employee unions dont care, theyll bankrupt NC like they bankrupted CA and IL,which are insolvent and dependent on tax increases and asset selloffs to pay bills.
2014-01-06 11:23:11 AM
1 votes:
Oh. Teachers pissing and moaning about everything? Must be a day that ends in "Y"
2014-01-06 11:20:01 AM
1 votes:

jso2897: Troll in one!


Not when you are followed by a PN one liner. Guy looks stupid and doesn't get any green arrows for it.
2014-01-06 11:19:51 AM
1 votes:

monoski: Maybe they can pray to learn.
//I hear prayer is the answer to all your needs in NC


The richest person in Charlotte is a megachurch owner, so it works!
2014-01-06 11:17:46 AM
1 votes:
Maybe they can pray to learn.
//I hear prayer is the answer to all your needs in NC
2014-01-06 11:13:32 AM
1 votes:

Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?


Because Fark you, that's why - NC GOP
2014-01-06 11:12:46 AM
1 votes:
"...North Carolina finally gains the upper hand against a union" would have also been acceptable.
2014-01-06 11:11:36 AM
1 votes:
Troll in one!
2014-01-06 11:06:39 AM
1 votes:
1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?
2014-01-06 10:26:31 AM
1 votes:
After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.
 
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