If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Slate)   A mere 150 years after getting its ass handed to it by the Union, North Carolina is finally winning a civil war--against its own teachers   (slate.com) divider line 301
    More: Dumbass, North Carolina, Common Core, language arts, student test, discretionary income  
•       •       •

14148 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jan 2014 at 11:03 AM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



301 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-01-06 11:27:44 AM

TheOtherMisterP: "A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800...It takes North Carolina teachers more than 15 years to earn $40,000".

Clearly the author grew up in North Carolina. Perhaps she meant to say "15 years to SAVE $40,000".


While it's a little vague, it's still fairly clear that the author meant "It takes North Carolina teachers more than 15 years to earn $40,000 [PER YEAR]."  And that's with a South Dakota education, currently 40th in per-pupil education spending.
 
2014-01-06 11:28:12 AM
North Carolina isn't fighting for fiscal solvency.  North Carolina is in great shape fiscally.  The legislature is legislating like idiots and blaming teachers and civil servants.
 
2014-01-06 11:28:26 AM

PunGent: dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.

Couldn't be bothered to read the article, could ya?


Why do you think the salaries were frozen in the first place?
 
2014-01-06 11:29:09 AM
Move.
 
2014-01-06 11:30:10 AM

special20: It seems that the Koch Brothers have an agenda, and they've paid Harold Brubaker quite a lot of money over the years. In recent years, Koch-allied politicians succeeded in undoing the desegregation of the Wake County school system. Do you know why they did that? It's because the Koch brothers have turned North Carolina into an experiment in extremist politics.  (link)

They really are Kochs, you know.


Not true.  That school board did not get its plan because it was voted out of office.  There is now a democratic majority on the Wake County School Board.  Which is why the legislature tried to turn over all the property to the county.
 
2014-01-06 11:30:21 AM

TheSwissNavy: Snarfangel: "...North Carolina finally gains the upper hand against a union" would have also been acceptable.

Yes. NC isnt warring against teachers or education, its fighting for fiscal solvency. The average public school teacher makes twice what they should, counting benefits and retirement.

The bigger issue is government retirement benefits in general. In 50 years, US life expectancy will be 90, thus bankrupting teacher retirement, SSI, etc. Government employee unions dont care, theyll bankrupt NC like they bankrupted CA and IL,which are insolvent and dependent on tax increases and asset selloffs to pay bills.



One more time: NC doesn't allow public employees to join unions. There's no "teacher's union" in NC; if there was, they'd have a lot better salaries and benefits. Oh, and NC's public retirement fund is currently one of the largest and best managed in the state, which does make me wonder how the legislature is going to try and fark that up next.

As for our 'fiscal solvency', we were doing just fine and dandy until 2008 and the recession hit, followed by the paleolithic Teabag/small government idiots that were elected under a false flag of "jobs jobs jobs". All they've done so far is cut social safety net programs, raise taxes on the poor and middle class (while at the same time reducing overall state revenue) and gut the education and regulatory departments.
 
2014-01-06 11:30:32 AM

Bendal: dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


Except there's no teacher's union in NC; they have an organization but it's hardly a union in the Northeastern sense of the word.

As for why NC appears to be headed towards being the South's version of Kansas, that's because the last two elections stuffed the legislature with a veto-proof majority of Christian conservatives, Teabaggers and far right anti-government loons. The entire Republican election platform in both 2008 and 2012 was "elect us and we'll bring jobs, jobs, jobs", but once elected they've done nothing about jobs and everything about destroying this state's reputation as the most forward thinking and progressive state in the South.

Teachers have been especially targeted by the legislature; tenure has been removed, forcing every teacher into a 1, 2 or 3 year contract that is evaluated on how well they and their school do performance wise. Some school boards have had their authority removed and given to the state Education Department; for some reason those school districts are all in areas that tend to vote Democrat. In addition, the budget for education is now being divided between the state run systems and private schools under the cloak of "innovation" and 'choice', except the majority of private schools are religious and/or conservative to the core, and usually so exclusive (and expensive) they aren't really needing taxpayer funds to stay afloat.

The outcome of this is already taking shape. Teachers are opting to move to other states, or just quitting the education career completely. The legislature, of course, will just use this as more evidence that public schools are failing and ...


It's a long-term social engineering project to destroy education.
 
2014-01-06 11:31:30 AM

abhorrent1: Oh. Teachers pissing and moaning about everything? Must be a day that ends in "Y"



I remember a short year or so ago when teachers were being hailed as heroes for putting their lives before their schoolchildren despite being paid less than a stripper.
 
2014-01-06 11:32:22 AM

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


yeah, seriously... it's not like we need teachers or anything.
 
2014-01-06 11:33:04 AM

Lord_Baull: despite being paid less than a stripper.



Not many people can (or should) be strippers.
 
2014-01-06 11:33:38 AM

special20: It seems that the Koch Brothers have an agenda, and they've paid Harold Brubaker quite a lot of money over the years. In recent years, Koch-allied politicians succeeded in undoing the desegregation of the Wake County school system. Do you know why they did that? It's because the Koch brothers have turned North Carolina into an experiment in extremist politics.  (link)

They really are Kochs, you know.


Sooo, the Kochs are your guys' SOROS; or something?

/ I've actually met them on several occasions. In fact; I should see them at Cheney's seekrit volcano lair for the Real Republican National Convention. Shall I pass along your concern?
 
2014-01-06 11:34:33 AM

sporkme: Maybe they should be trimming the administration and facilities budgets instead.  The basic function of a school is a teacher in a room.



marygai.com
Yes!  We should go back to the days of a simpler time.  None of this fancy stuff needed to learn the three R's.

In 2014....
 
2014-01-06 11:34:48 AM

TheSwissNavy: farkbot42: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because Fark you, that's why - NC GOP

Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions. How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year? $30,000 to start, job security for life, Cadillac benefits, retire after 30 years at half pay, wtf???


I work a minimum of 11 months a year. My summer and winter breaks are spent creating lesson plans which integrate the latest common practices and district initiatives, attending professional development courses, and furthering my own education and core subject expertise. I need the other month to take vacations and spend the time with my own children that I have otherwise been spending with your children, douchebag.
 
2014-01-06 11:35:06 AM

TomD9938: Lord_Baull: despite being paid less than a stripper.


Not many people can (or should) be strippers.



Sounds like you're saying anyone can be a teacher.
 
2014-01-06 11:35:33 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-06 11:36:39 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Move.


Really?  That's your solution?
 
2014-01-06 11:37:20 AM

TheSwissNavy: farkbot42: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because Fark you, that's why - NC GOP

Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions. How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year? $30,000 to start, job security for life, Cadillac benefits, retire after 30 years at half pay, wtf???


There is no teachers union in NC so that has nothing to do with it.  Mrs. Fire has two bachelor's degrees and one masters.  She is currently in her first (and possibly last) year of teaching in the NC public school system.  She teaches classes that if a student stays in the program the full four years they will be able to become a CNA straight out of high school.  This program can give students a career with out the heavy debt of going to college.  Just a glorified over paid babysitter making 30,000 a year.  Asshole.
 
2014-01-06 11:37:26 AM
Some people can't stand to see a public service exist when it could be privatized and they will do everything in their power to trash the public sector just so they can point to it as a failure, now matter how well the service works when properly run and no matter who and how many it hurts while they're in the process of breaking it. Its happening with our K-12 educational system and Social Security, and the same people are trying to apply the approach to government in general. So unless you want to start figuring out whether you'll get a better deal on Justice in the McDonald's court of law or Burger King superior court, Or if its better to take the Wal*Mart freeway vs. the Target integrated highway system fight these assholes! Some things are too important to be held hostage for profit. Your schools are just the beginning.
 
2014-01-06 11:37:41 AM

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


NC is a right-to-mooch-off-the-union state.  Sorry.
 
2014-01-06 11:38:08 AM

Kyro: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 800x600]


Why the disclaimer about blank areas when I don't see any on that map?
 
2014-01-06 11:38:13 AM
Book learnin' is for those elitist types anyhoo. Don't need no edgycation to drive a tractor,mow a lawn or work at Applebee's. Besides the Lord's coming back any day now and we're gettin' raptured outta this trailer court into mansions in the clouds. Except fer the Jews and the coloreds. Now don't get me wrong, we love Israel and don't cotton to no Muslins, but I think we all know where God stands on them Jewish fellers.
 
2014-01-06 11:39:38 AM

TheSwissNavy: How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year?


Newsflash, dipsh*t: it's not a nine month per year job.  It may surprise you that there's work done before and after the school year.  Continuing education, curriculum planning and training take place during the summer break.
 
2014-01-06 11:40:23 AM

JusticeandIndependence: Kyro: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 800x600]

Why the disclaimer about blank areas when I don't see any on that map?


I thought that was kinda odd too.
 
2014-01-06 11:41:49 AM

Pocket Ninja: Yes, they should of.


HAH!! That's pretty farking funny man.  Teabaggers making grammar mistakes while criticizing education = priceless.
 
2014-01-06 11:43:33 AM
It all makes sense if you remember that conservatives WANT a return to feudalism, and having an educated populace really screws that up.

Also teachers are TERRIBLE at organizing. Teachers unions are mostly toothless at the non-federal level. I think it has something to do with the fact that any given teacher is "the boss" in their own classroom. They simply aren't used to cooperating with their co-workers. My mom is a teacher, and I have talked to her abou this, and she agrees. Teachers tend to see other teachers as the competition.
 
2014-01-06 11:43:56 AM

Lord_Baull: TomD9938: Lord_Baull: despite being paid less than a stripper.


Not many people can (or should) be strippers.


Sounds like you're saying anyone can be a teacher.



Certainly not.  One pool's just deeper than the other.

Not many people can (or should) be brain surgeons either.

If you look at Kyros map above, Im in one the dark blue states (Minnesota).  So here, teaching's a pretty nice gig.

They still complain though.

/ not a hater
// things are tough all over
 
2014-01-06 11:44:59 AM

chitlenz: Pocket Ninja: Yes, they should of.

HAH!! That's pretty farking funny man.  Teabaggers making grammar mistakes while criticizing education = priceless.




Should HAVE.

/teacher
 
2014-01-06 11:46:18 AM

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


10/10. Nice!
 
2014-01-06 11:47:40 AM
In 20 years, neighboring states will know that they are only wasting their time hiring people who did their schooling in North Carolina. I can't wait to see what their hissy fit will look like when they realize they've made their bed.
 
2014-01-06 11:47:45 AM

Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?


Because they were making too much 10 years ago. Noe adjust these numbers by including benefits. Pay goes down, healthcare benefit costs go up. Actual compensation for teachers stays the same.

Teachers, when you include all comoensation and adjust for hours worked (refer to bls.gov, teachers self report fewer yearly hours worked than most industries), teachers do pretty well.

Add that to the fact that teaching isn't exactlt a difficult major in college (below average entrance exams) and teachers are doing really well compared to their peers.
 
2014-01-06 11:50:48 AM

ikanreed: FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas.

Near the worst gerrymandering in the history of the entire country thanks to tea-idiots circa 2010.


Ahh the dumb things liberals tell themselves. The tea party didnt invent the majority minority district. That wasa liberal creation . It centralized large swaths of your voters.
 
2014-01-06 11:50:59 AM

Kyro: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 800x600]


a good compare would be with that and student success rates as well.
 
2014-01-06 11:50:59 AM
The author is a neighbor of mine and my daughter has gone to the same schools as the author's son since kindergarten, so I'm familiar with the local situation.

To me it comes down to supply and demand. If you think the free market works, then a teacher pay scale that is 46th in the nation is going to attract teachers who can't work anywhere else.

How did it get this way?  Republicans took over the legislature and are cutting taxes on the rich and raising them on the poor, and when cutting taxes in a state which requires a balanced budget the money has to come from somewhere.

There's also an anti-public-school agenda, and the floodgates have been opened to start for-profit charter schools, which by law do not have any requirements on who can teach, so no college degree or teaching certificate is required.  Hell, they changed the law this year so no background checks are required.  Just because someone's been convicted of a sex crime is no reason to keep them from teaching children.
 
2014-01-06 11:51:05 AM
TheOtherMisterP: "A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800...It takes North Carolina teachers more than 15 years to earn $40,000".Clearly the author grew up in North Carolina. Perhaps she meant to say "15 years to SAVE $40,000".

rugman11:
While it's a little vague, it's still fairly clear that the author meant "It takes North Carolina teachers more than 15 years to earn $40,000 [PER YEAR]."  And that's with a South Dakota education, currently 40th in per-pupil education spending.


I never was no good at dat dem der readin' comprehensun.
 
2014-01-06 11:51:18 AM

MyRandomName: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because they were making too much 10 years ago. Noe adjust these numbers by including benefits. Pay goes down, healthcare benefit costs go up. Actual compensation for teachers stays the same.

Teachers, when you include all comoensation and adjust for hours worked (refer to bls.gov, teachers self report fewer yearly hours worked than most industries), teachers do pretty well.

Add that to the fact that teaching isn't exactlt a difficult major in college (below average entrance exams) and teachers are doing really well compared to their peers.


Something is wrong with your keyboard.  You should have it checked out.
 
2014-01-06 11:51:27 AM

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


Right, because the only really important thing in the world is getting rich.
 
2014-01-06 11:51:48 AM

FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas


There was a huuuuuge backlash against that trend by the cranky, flat-earth types after 2008. They woke up, loaded the legislature and turned the state backwards in many ways, it's sad. We got the fark out and moved back to NY. Maybe the taxes are higher, but you get what you pay for in many ways. Better schools, services, roads, police presence, etc, etc.
 
2014-01-06 11:52:07 AM
The Boobies I ever made on Fark was about the apparent average intelligence of the average North Carolinian, and how it gets in the way of them speaking coherently.

I actually had to get someone to act as a translator for a gas station attendant.  It took them 3 tries to realize that the guy was saying "Out of forty?"  - it sounded like "ubba-bubbity?"

So like the confederacy, this is just a proud tradition of the south!
 
2014-01-06 11:53:24 AM

TomD9938: FTA  : Gap store managers on average make about $56,000.


Price?
Tea?
China?

As if successfully running any retail operation is some sort of a cake walk.

It's one of the PR problems teachers have.

Many of them believe that theres is the toughest of occupations and that the rest of us get paid for just showing up.


North Carolina educated?
 
2014-01-06 11:54:27 AM

yanoosh: Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.


Please explain the voting populaces of NYC, DC, Chicago, Detroit, etc. They have some of the worst test scores in the nation.
 
2014-01-06 11:55:03 AM

sprgrss: special20: It seems that the Koch Brothers have an agenda, and they've paid Harold Brubaker quite a lot of money over the years. In recent years, Koch-allied politicians succeeded in undoing the desegregation of the Wake County school system. Do you know why they did that? It's because the Koch brothers have turned North Carolina into an experiment in extremist politics.  (link)

They really are Kochs, you know.

Not true.  That school board did not get its plan because it was voted out of office.  There is now a democratic majority on the Wake County School Board.  Which is why the legislature tried to turn over all the property to the county.


No desegregation was instated in Wake, and the constituency blew it out of the water once it was implemented. The other link I supplied is obviously one you did not read. Pff, "not true" - indeed.
 
2014-01-06 11:55:07 AM
You can substitute Georgia with North Carolina and the article is still true.

/Don't care what the map somebody posted says.  Teachers are bringing home less pay than 10 years ago.
 
2014-01-06 11:55:34 AM
It is highly credible that teachers in NC (and many other places) are underpaid, but I object to measures by state ranking. I think that's been an acute problem for education funding. The promoters rarely give any attention to objective measures of outcome. Zero-sum state rankings are especially bad.

Did you now that by every single measure, there are dozens of states below average? The numbers are as bad as they were in 1970! No wonder this country is in so much trouble!
 
2014-01-06 11:55:58 AM

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


I'm going to go ahead and assume your small business has absolutely nothing to do with writing English sentences.

And I'm not going to bother with any more than that, because you must be trolling.
 
2014-01-06 11:56:01 AM

Billy Bathsalt: TomD9938: FTA  : Gap store managers on average make about $56,000.


Price?
Tea?
China?

As if successfully running any retail operation is some sort of a cake walk.

It's one of the PR problems teachers have.

Many of them believe that theres is the toughest of occupations and that the rest of us get paid for just showing up.

North Carolina educated?



Any thoughts on what I said?
 
2014-01-06 11:56:29 AM

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


The angle is to slowly move everyone to vouchers so people can send their kids to "better" schools which are too often right-leaning in this state. Science education will suffer from this as we slide into a more religious-based view of the nature of our world. The future is not bright for the youth of today.
 
2014-01-06 11:56:38 AM

Ring of Fire: TheSwissNavy: farkbot42: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because Fark you, that's why - NC GOP

Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions. How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year? $30,000 to start, job security for life, Cadillac benefits, retire after 30 years at half pay, wtf???

There is no teachers union in NC so that has nothing to do with it.  Mrs. Fire has two bachelor's degrees and one masters.  She is currently in her first (and possibly last) year of teaching in the NC public school system.  She teaches classes that if a student stays in the program the full four years they will be able to become a CNA straight out of high school.  This program can give students a career with out the heavy debt of going to college.  Just a glorified over paid babysitter making 30,000 a year.  Asshole.


Teachers would love to get paid like babysitters. The going rate for a sitter around here is between $8 and $10 per hour for an evening sitter, and $25 a day for daily care.

25 kids a day, five days a week, for 36 weeks adds up to well over $100,000 even for the cheaper day-time rates. So not only are you getting your kids looked after for a bargain price, the kids are getting taught math, history, science, and a lot of other good stuff.
 
2014-01-06 11:57:02 AM

You Are All Sheep: Kyro: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 800x600]

a good compare would be with that and student success rates as well.


I'd like to see it normalized with cost of living.
 
2014-01-06 11:57:34 AM

Pocket Ninja: Yes, they should of.


The teachers should of then and. The principals obviously caught say of.
 
2014-01-06 11:57:57 AM

MyRandomName: ikanreed: FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas.

Near the worst gerrymandering in the history of the entire country thanks to tea-idiots circa 2010.

Ahh the dumb things liberals tell themselves. The tea party didnt invent the majority minority district. That wasa liberal creation . It centralized large swaths of your voters.


Yep, that supermajority of legislators from a minority of voters is entirely because of district 13 ever existing and not dramatically more abusive changes starting precisely when a bunch of conservative shiatheels decided to fark democracy in the ass from the their temporary upswing in popularity.  Yep.  No wait.  fark off forever, get the fark out of my state, and die a horrible and painful death.
 
Displayed 50 of 301 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report