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(Slate)   A mere 150 years after getting its ass handed to it by the Union, North Carolina is finally winning a civil war--against its own teachers   (slate.com) divider line 300
    More: Dumbass, North Carolina, Common Core, language arts, student test, discretionary income  
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14158 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jan 2014 at 11:03 AM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-06 01:18:20 PM

Deathfrogg: TomD9938:
gimmegimme:

Has it occurred to you that people who have more education just might, on average, be smarter and know more than people who have less education?


More knowledgeable, yes.

Smarter?

I'm not so convinced.

Case in point:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 514x372]


A man who managed to wrangle two degrees from Ivy-League schools, without ever actually attending any classes, who then went on to become Governor and then President. Now he does paint-by-the-numbers pictures and is so proud of that fact that he's touring the country on his artistic talent.


compared to the current guy, he was a genius
 
2014-01-06 01:18:36 PM

Snarfangel: Oldiron_79: If this was Georgia I think I know what Fark's reaction would be


You are thinking of Florida. Please stop that.


He failed geography.

Blame his teacher.
 
2014-01-06 01:20:57 PM

gimmegimme: Years of study and thought and collaboration in the university system doesn't help someone become, on average, smarter than someone who ended their formal education after 12th grade?



I'm saying that I think intelligence is innate.

What someone can or will do with it is another matter.
 
2014-01-06 01:21:46 PM

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


This post has inspired me to declare 2014 opposite year.  Whenever I read a thread, I'm going to take my thoughts about it, and passionately post the exact opposite.

It's like being fair and balanced over the period of 2013-2014
 
2014-01-06 01:22:19 PM

Joe Blowme:

compared to the current guy, he was a genius


phoenixcentury.files.wordpress.com

Yep, he knew where his loyalties were.
 
2014-01-06 01:23:47 PM

mithras_angel: Snarfangel: Oldiron_79: If this was Georgia I think I know what Fark's reaction would be

You are thinking of Florida. Please stop that.

He failed geography.

Blame his teacher.


images.sodahead.com

Maybe he didn't have any maps...
 
2014-01-06 01:26:49 PM

jshine: mithras_angel: Snarfangel: Oldiron_79: If this was Georgia I think I know what Fark's reaction would be

You are thinking of Florida. Please stop that.

He failed geography.

Blame his teacher.

[images.sodahead.com image 245x336]

Maybe he didn't have any maps...


She was Miss SOUTH Carolina, but your point is still funny.
 
2014-01-06 01:26:49 PM

mbillips: wambu: I am always amused by stories that advance the view that poor student achievement is the result of low teacher salaries.

The true culprit is the education culture. Colleges graduating teachers who are barely literate and e-certifying crappy teachers so they can "keep their jobs". School administrators who hate kids and parents and look forward to retiring on a pension. School boards that don't focus on education and don't care about the students. Politicians that resent allocating public funds to public education instead of their pet projects. Topped off with a bunch of people who use the schools to advance their ideology and personal agendas, parents who don't give a shiat and students distracted from learning because they are trying to escape from this Hell.

And that's the Pollyanna version.

You know why schools sometimes (rarely, but conceding the point) hire barely literate teachers? Because the pay isn't high enough to attract better ones. It used to be that women had very few career options if they wanted to work, and public school teaching was one of them. So you got some really bright, really dedicated women teaching. Now, women like that can become lawyers, marketing directors or CEOs.

Anyway, public schools are demonstrably as good as they ever were. The only thing driving down standardized test scores are a) mainstreaming kids with developmental difficulties and b) immigrant kids whose English skills are below par. The problem even in "failing" schools generally isn't the classroom instruction, it's the society from which the kids come. 50 years ago, those kids would drop out of school by age 14 and take menial farm or factory jobs. Factory jobs often led to a rise in economic class. That option's pretty much closed off now.


My grandmosther (RIP) dropped out of highschool at age 14 to work in the Textile Mills.  It is not a good thing.
 
2014-01-06 01:29:07 PM

Anayalator: give me doughnuts: Ring of Fire: TheSwissNavy: farkbot42: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because Fark you, that's why - NC GOP

Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions. How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year? $30,000 to start, job security for life, Cadillac benefits, retire after 30 years at half pay, wtf???

There is no teachers union in NC so that has nothing to do with it.  Mrs. Fire has two bachelor's degrees and one masters.  She is currently in her first (and possibly last) year of teaching in the NC public school system.  She teaches classes that if a student stays in the program the full four years they will be able to become a CNA straight out of high school.  This program can give students a career with out the heavy debt of going to college.  Just a glorified over paid babysitter making 30,000 a year.  Asshole.

Teachers would love to get paid like babysitters. The going rate for a sitter around here is between $8 and $10 per hour for an evening sitter, and $25 a day for daily care.

25 kids a day, five days a week, for 36 weeks adds up to well over $100,000 even for the cheaper day-time rates. So not only are you getting your kids looked after for a bargain price, the kids are getting taught math, history, science, and a lot of other good stuff.


This article is depressing. I was making 75k/year in restaurant. I'm now back in school finishing my physics degree, most likely to end up as a teacher making half as much for twice the hours worked and- get this- I was seriously considering moving to Asheville.

Guess I'll stay in MD, and get my PhD instead.
 
2014-01-06 01:34:23 PM

Deathfrogg: Joe Blowme:

compared to the current guy, he was a genius

[phoenixcentury.files.wordpress.com image 459x273]

Yep, he knew where his loyalties were.


www.thegatewaypundit.com

they all do it would seem
 
2014-01-06 01:36:03 PM

EnderWiggnz: mbillips: wambu: I am always amused by stories that advance the view that poor student achievement is the result of low teacher salaries.

The true culprit is the education culture. Colleges graduating teachers who are barely literate and e-certifying crappy teachers so they can "keep their jobs". School administrators who hate kids and parents and look forward to retiring on a pension. School boards that don't focus on education and don't care about the students. Politicians that resent allocating public funds to public education instead of their pet projects. Topped off with a bunch of people who use the schools to advance their ideology and personal agendas, parents who don't give a shiat and students distracted from learning because they are trying to escape from this Hell.

And that's the Pollyanna version.

You know why schools sometimes (rarely, but conceding the point) hire barely literate teachers? Because the pay isn't high enough to attract better ones. It used to be that women had very few career options if they wanted to work, and public school teaching was one of them. So you got some really bright, really dedicated women teaching. Now, women like that can become lawyers, marketing directors or CEOs.

Anyway, public schools are demonstrably as good as they ever were. The only thing driving down standardized test scores are a) mainstreaming kids with developmental difficulties and b) immigrant kids whose English skills are below par. The problem even in "failing" schools generally isn't the classroom instruction, it's the society from which the kids come. 50 years ago, those kids would drop out of school by age 14 and take menial farm or factory jobs. Factory jobs often led to a rise in economic class. That option's pretty much closed off now.

My grandmosther (RIP) dropped out of highschool at age 14 to work in the Textile Mills.  It is not a good thing.


Why do you hate capitalism and freedom?
 
2014-01-06 01:45:53 PM

sprgrss: special20: sprgrss: special20: It seems that the Koch Brothers have an agenda, and they've paid Harold Brubaker quite a lot of money over the years. In recent years, Koch-allied politicians succeeded in undoing the desegregation of the Wake County school system. Do you know why they did that? It's because the Koch brothers have turned North Carolina into an experiment in extremist politics.  (link)

They really are Kochs, you know.

Not true.  That school board did not get its plan because it was voted out of office.  There is now a democratic majority on the Wake County School Board.  Which is why the legislature tried to turn over all the property to the county.

No desegregation was instated in Wake, and the constituency blew it out of the water once it was implemented. The other link I supplied is obviously one you did not read. Pff, "not true" - indeed.

I live in Wake County, I know what I'm talking about.  You, however, do not.


So your appeal to authority is based on where you live? Can you see Russia from your house?
 
2014-01-06 01:45:55 PM

gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: yanoosh: Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.

 yes, because people with no education and no job vote republican.


One thing is for sure...smart people vote Democrat and the welfare queen states vote Republican.


It's almost like the voters of the "welfare queen" states want to vote in candidates they think will end government handouts...
 
2014-01-06 01:54:01 PM

al's hat: catsfish: Pocket Ninja: Yes, they should of.


Surgical snark, hung with their own rope. I like.

hanged  ;)


hoist by his own retard(edness)?
 
2014-01-06 01:54:18 PM

TomD9938: gimmegimme: Years of study and thought and collaboration in the university system doesn't help someone become, on average, smarter than someone who ended their formal education after 12th grade?


I'm saying that I think intelligence is innate.

What someone can or will do with it is another matter.


It's a bit more complicated than that. Intelligence is very complex, and is measured by many different metrics.

Some aspects are nature, others are nurture. The important thing for the purposes of this discussion is that teachers are instrumental in the critical phase where nurture has a large effect on expanding aptitude.

Regardless of a person's final level of education, good teachers produce smarter students, with better creativity, critical thinking, self-awareness, and emotional knowledge.
 
2014-01-06 01:57:15 PM

FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas.


Industrious people with lives don't tend to pay as much attention to local politics as pissed off nutjobs. The republitards get votes by pandering to pissed off nutjobs.
 
2014-01-06 01:57:53 PM
After benefits and pension taken in to account, that starting salary is on par with 60k in the private sector. They never seem to mention that. Summers off, massive breaks, pension for life. Wah.

Education majors have the lowest test scores in college too, those that can, do, those that can't teach.
 
2014-01-06 01:58:16 PM
$30,800 to start, that is over $2,000 a month (pretty darn good in my book).
'They' know the salary going in (when entering college, etc) and then they biatch about it later?
Teachers have been complaining about their salaries for a 'hundred years'.
Learn to live within your means or get another job?
 
2014-01-06 01:58:51 PM
Our former Governor, Jim Hunt, who championed public K-12 education in our state while he was in office had an excellent editorial in our local paper on Sunday,..

Former Gov. Jim Hunt: Here's how to raise NC teacher pay
http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/01/04/3504498/former-gov-jim-hunt-h er es-how.html
 
2014-01-06 01:59:14 PM

Nutsac_Jim: yanoosh: Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.

 yes, because people with no education and no job vote republican.


Stats from North Carolina in the 2012 presidential election (YMMV for local elections):  link

tl;dr:  The poorest (weakly) vote Democrat; the least educated (very weakly) vote Republican.  There are probably differences by race that aren't broken down into these categories.  (The aggregate racial maps are predictable.)

graphics8.nytimes.com
i2.wp.com
 
2014-01-06 02:05:14 PM
Yup, like I've always said about North Cackalackey, too many blacks and too many teachers. Looks like they're finally getting their teacher problem under control. 7th largest illegal immigrant population too, but thats all chicken and pig production, so as long as those people keep their pieholes shut and don't try to unionize we should get along just fine.

What do you people expect from a state who's Republican government decided to change their license plate lettering from blue to red because Obama won? They even changed it after the Police/Sheriffs said it would make it harder to see. Four years later and they're finally changing it back to blue because now they realize red is really annoying on a license plate.

1st in Flight, 50th in Education Spending
 
2014-01-06 02:09:53 PM

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


Obviously you do not live in North Carolina.  This qualifies for the most clueless comment of the day. Let's fix the ignorance.

There are no teacher unions in North Carolina that negotiate contracts. There are no unfunded liabilities (such as pensions).  Teachers are state employees and our state has a fully funded pension plan (in fact the top rated pension plan in the nation according to some surveys). Teachers are forced to put 6% of each paycheck into the pension fund and the state does not do any matching (this is the pension, not a 401K/403b) - so there are no "unfunded liabilities" - but to say it mildly the state pensions suck when compared to teaching pensions in other states.

The local school boards do not control funding - they can only influence the county commissioners to spend money on school construction based on the school boards facility budget projections - local school boards do not set teacher salaries in North Carolina or fund operational spending.

Teacher salaries in North Carolina are set at the state level - some high cost counties have small additional salary supplements.
 
2014-01-06 02:10:08 PM

hitlersbrain: FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas.

Industrious people with lives don't tend to pay as much attention to local politics as pissed off nutjobs. The republitards get votes by pandering to pissed off nutjobs.


That combined with: "Democrats are corrupt, and Republicans are crazy (and corrupt)".

From what I've heard, people got really fed up with Democratic Corruption, Republicans managed to talk the talk, and then showed up and went all derp (and equally corrupt).

This then combined with the rise of the traditionally liberal Tea Party (and the reaction against Obamacare absolutely screwing the Democrats in that election cycle) to get some really, really derp politicians into office.

/Why can't there be a traditionally liberal party that combines Republican ideals on the role and place of government with regards to the people with mildly Democratic social policies?  Because I'd vote for them every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
 
2014-01-06 02:16:53 PM

skozlaw: You can have cheap teachers if you want, but you're gonna get cheap people who couldn't hack it in the work world. And then you're gonna biatch about the quality.


Horse, barn etc...

The reason that teachers aren't paid shiat is because anybody with a pulse can get a teaching degree. Maybe we should be weeding the usless ones out while they are in college like we do with every real degree. Giving them more money will just get us better paid idiots in the current system.
 
2014-01-06 02:23:35 PM

Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?


Isn't everyone? Serious
 
2014-01-06 02:26:25 PM

Turbo Cojones: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Isn't everyone? Serious


Nope.

assets.motherjones.com
 
2014-01-06 02:28:03 PM

FnkyTwn: Yup, like I've always said about North Cackalackey, too many blacks and too many teachers. Looks like they're finally getting their teacher problem under control. 7th largest illegal immigrant population too, but thats all chicken and pig production, so as long as those people keep their pieholes shut and don't try to unionize we should get along just fine.

What do you people expect from a state who's Republican government decided to change their license plate lettering from blue to red because Obama won? They even changed it after the Police/Sheriffs said it would make it harder to see. Four years later and they're finally changing it back to blue because now they realize red is really annoying on a license plate.

1st in Flight, 50th in Education Spending


The only reason NC is 1st in Flight is a couple of Ohio boys brought their flying machine down for a vacation.
 
2014-01-06 02:30:34 PM

Fireproof: Pontious Pilates: FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas

There was a huuuuuge backlash against that trend by the cranky, flat-earth types after 2008. They woke up, loaded the legislature and turned the state backwards in many ways, it's sad. We got the fark out and moved back to NY. Maybe the taxes are higher, but you get what you pay for in many ways. Better schools, services, roads, police presence, etc, etc.

Yup, also Pat McCrory, who had been a pretty moderate Republican as mayor of Charlotte, got elected Governor and became a balls-to-the-wall Teatard.


I almost forgot the anti-gay statewide referendum in early 2012 that whipped the base into a frenzy for the general in November. Once I saw that disgusting display of anti-progress, I knew the state wouldn't vote for anyone to the left of Zombie Jesse Helms for another generation.
 
2014-01-06 02:31:35 PM

bratface: $30,800 to start, that is over $2,000 a month (pretty darn good in my book).
'They' know the salary going in (when entering college, etc) and then they biatch about it later?
Teachers have been complaining about their salaries for a 'hundred years'.
Learn to live within your means or get another job?


That is BEFORE taxes.

Rent = $1000/month
Food = $120/month
Electricity = $100/month (give or take)
Motor fuel = $150/month
Water = $60-$80/month
Required education level = Masters degree, therefore student loans in the area of $60,000 - $100,000
so payments in the area of $150/month.

Clothes, shoes, dental care, auto repairs, tires, eyeglasses, internet access, household gas, haircuts, new lawnmower, emergency home repairs, car payments, insurance, toll roads, mandatory continued education credits, personal household items like cleaning supplies, toothpaste, shampoo, soap, asswipe, tampons, hankies, vacuum cleaners, cooking tools, surprise new refrigerator.

Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

Teaching is NOT a beat-up bluejeans and t-shirt job. Teachers are required to wear nice clothing: ties, slacks or decent skirts, good sensible dress shoes. To stand in front of a class in ratty clothes is not going to get a teacher any respect. Such clothing is rather expensive.

The "Conservatives" in this country want everything for free. They do not want to pay for anything, including and especially, LABOR.

You know, actual working people who perform actual work?

They say it flat out, that people who perform LABOR do not deserve to be fairly compensated for it. They would bring back slavery if they had the chance. They say it outright. To the "conservative", only capital has any right to generate income, and that "income" is really "gained capital" so it shouldn't be taxed at all. Labor is always an expense that must be minimized to the greatest degree possible. They don't want to pay people to do work. They only want to pay people for generating more capital, as minimally as possible. Do you think a bank manager would tolerate $30,000 a year gross wages? Especially if he or she had to buy their own supplies to do the basic job?
 
2014-01-06 02:32:35 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: People_are_Idiots: Tenure only encourages mediocrity and bad teaching.

Some of the best, most creative teachers I've ever had have been the tenured ones. Try again.


Yet they weren't good enough at their jobs to teach you that anecdotes aren't data.
 
2014-01-06 02:37:16 PM

gblive: dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.

Obviously you do not live in North Carolina.  This qualifies for the most clueless comment of the day. Let's fix the ignorance.

There are no teacher unions in North Carolina that negotiate contracts. There are no unfunded liabilities (such as pensions).  Teachers are state employees and our state has a fully funded pension plan (in fact the top rated pension plan in the nation according to some surveys). Teachers are forced to put 6% of each paycheck into the pension fund and the state does not do any matching (this is the pension, not a 401K/403b) - so there are no "unfunded liabilities" - but to say it mildly the state pensions suck when compared to teaching pensions in other states.

The local school boards do not control funding - they can only influence the county commissioners to spend money on school construction based on the school boards facility budget projections - local school boards do not set teacher salaries in North Carolina or fund operational spending.

Teacher salaries in North Carolina are set at the state level - some high cost counties have small additional salary supplements.


The Chapel Hill district, where the author of the article is from, charges city residents an extra tax in order to increase money available to schools, but I have no stats on how that might change teacher salaries.
 
2014-01-06 02:55:54 PM

sigdiamond2000: They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation.


You're a douche.

When you go out of business, we'll all gather around to sing "he shoulda sold something better."

Why are you a douche? Because America will always need to educate its young and therefore we will always need someone to teach. I don't know what kind of world you imagine would best support your business but I'm pretty sure dumb and ignorant means they'll buy less of whatever. That is not in your best interests.

When everyone follows  your advice to worship profit potential first and foremost, we won't be a country at all.
 
2014-01-06 02:59:58 PM

meyerkev: Why can't there be a traditionally liberal party that combines Republican ideals on the role and place of government with regards to the people with mildly Democratic social policies?


That would be the Democratic Party, circa 1992 to the present
 
2014-01-06 03:01:41 PM

Astorix: chitlenz: Pocket Ninja: Yes, they should of.

HAH!! That's pretty farking funny man.  Teabaggers making grammar mistakes while criticizing education = priceless.

Should HAVE.

/teacher


Very good, teacher. I suppose sarcasm is not one of the subjects that you teach?
 
2014-01-06 03:07:51 PM

edmo: sigdiamond2000: They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation.

You're a douche.

When you go out of business, we'll all gather around to sing "he shoulda sold something better."

Why are you a douche? Because America will always need to educate its young and therefore we will always need someone to teach. I don't know what kind of world you imagine would best support your business but I'm pretty sure dumb and ignorant means they'll buy less of whatever. That is not in your best interests.

When everyone follows  your advice to worship profit potential first and foremost, we won't be a country at all.


What's going to happen is that all of these old people who so love Ayn Rand are going to die off, and their ideals with them.  The country is going to change back into something reasonable as soon as the narcissistic boomers are all dead.  Should be around 2030.
 
2014-01-06 03:11:19 PM

czei: gblive: dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.

Obviously you do not live in North Carolina.  This qualifies for the most clueless comment of the day. Let's fix the ignorance.

There are no teacher unions in North Carolina that negotiate contracts. There are no unfunded liabilities (such as pensions).  Teachers are state employees and our state has a fully funded pension plan (in fact the top rated pension plan in the nation according to some surveys). Teachers are forced to put 6% of each paycheck into the pension fund and the state does not do any matching (this is the pension, not a 401K/403b) - so there are no "unfunded liabilities" - but to say it mildly the state pensions suck when compared to teaching pensions in other states.

The local school boards do not control funding - they can only influence the county commissioners to spend money on school construction based on the school boards facility budget projections - local school boards do not set teacher salaries in North Carolina or fund operational spending.

Teacher salaries in North Carolina are set at the state level - some high cost counties have small additional salary supplements.

The Chapel Hill district, where the author of the article is from, charges city residents an extra tax in order to increase money available to schools, but I have no stats on how that might change teacher salaries.


Chapel Hill does this, as does Orange County (to a lesser extent) and other counties, such as Dare. It does help raise teachers' salaries, and Dare has also spent some of this money to build subsidized housing for teachers to offset the high cost of living in a tourist town like Kill Devil Hills.

It also has the side effect of giving the poorer counties, like Durham and Chatham, something to complain about when their teachers leave for the subsidized districts.

N.B. - I taught high school seniors for a year back in the 70s. I quit to make more money waiting tables. Low pay has been a problem in NC for decades. It's just fashionable to complain about it now that the Pepsi Party is in power.
 
2014-01-06 03:14:10 PM

gimmegimme: TomD9938: gimmegimme: I'm not sure it's fair to equate voting Democrat with being "statist."  As I pointed out, the red states are the ones that take more tax money than they contribute.


Well, I said statist leanings, not full blown statists.  I know American Democrats are more center-right from an international perspective.

My own liberal attitudes (such as the are) were largely formed in the public school system.  They certainly didn't come from my dad.


gimmegimme:

Has it occurred to you that people who have more education just might, on average, be smarter and know more than people who have less education?


More knowledgeable, yes.

Smarter?

I'm not so convinced.

So you're contending that it's possible that the average person with a high school education is "smarter" than the average person who has a doctorate?  (I'm sure you can find an incredibly brilliant high school dropout and a really dumb person with a doctorate; this is why I say "average.")  Years of study and thought and collaboration in the university system doesn't help someone become, on average, smarter than someone who ended their formal education after 12th grade?


I want to see him explain why he doesn't think people with graduate degrees are smarter than people who only finished 12th grade.  This should be interdasting to say the least.
 
2014-01-06 03:15:09 PM

physt: sprgrss: special20: sprgrss: special20: It seems that the Koch Brothers have an agenda, and they've paid Harold Brubaker quite a lot of money over the years. In recent years, Koch-allied politicians succeeded in undoing the desegregation of the Wake County school system. Do you know why they did that? It's because the Koch brothers have turned North Carolina into an experiment in extremist politics.  (link)

They really are Kochs, you know.

Not true.  That school board did not get its plan because it was voted out of office.  There is now a democratic majority on the Wake County School Board.  Which is why the legislature tried to turn over all the property to the county.

No desegregation was instated in Wake, and the constituency blew it out of the water once it was implemented. The other link I supplied is obviously one you did not read. Pff, "not true" - indeed.

I live in Wake County, I know what I'm talking about.  You, however, do not.

So your appeal to authority is based on where you live? Can you see Russia from your house?


His appeal to authority was based on living in the location that they were talking about.  Now, this doesn't automatically make him right, but it would tend to indicate that he's more knowledgable about that particular county than someone across the country.
 
2014-01-06 03:17:49 PM

gimmegimme: Turbo Cojones: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Isn't everyone? Serious

Nope.

[assets.motherjones.com image 631x346]


Can we assume the top 1% are probably pretty educated in order to make all that money? So according to the other charts on this thread most of the 1%er's must vote democrat and therefore are the evil ones.
 
2014-01-06 03:19:54 PM

Onkel Buck: gimmegimme: Turbo Cojones: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Isn't everyone? Serious

Nope.

[assets.motherjones.com image 631x346]

Can we assume the top 1% are probably pretty educated in order to make all that money? So according to the other charts on this thread most of the 1%er's must vote democrat and therefore are the evil ones.


You're making a lot of assumptions without providing much evidence.
 
2014-01-06 03:20:14 PM

WickerNipple: sigdiamond2000:
They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.

Perhaps they genuinely care about education and children?


Maybe his small business doesn't depend on an educated workforce?
 
2014-01-06 03:28:26 PM

bingo the psych-o: WickerNipple: sigdiamond2000:
They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.

Perhaps they genuinely care about education and children?

Maybe his small business doesn't depend on an educated workforce?


There is no such thing as a business that is dependent on an uneducated workforce. Employees are almost universally required to be able to read, write, understand mathematics and follow procedures.

Uneducated people tend to do things that get the business in trouble. Like turning the wrong valve, mislabeling consumables or entering the wrong instructions into a automatic machine. The days of illiterate labor are long gone, as they should be. It keeps people alive.
 
2014-01-06 03:29:40 PM

gimmegimme: Turbo Cojones: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Isn't everyone? Serious

Nope.

[assets.motherjones.com image 631x346]


Stop using household income.

From http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/5652:

The "typical" household, however, keeps changing. Since 1970, there has been a dramatic rise in divorced, never-married, and single-person households. Back in 1970, the married Ozzie and Harriet family was the norm: 71 percent of all U.S. households were two-parent families. Now the ratio is only 51 percent. In the process of this social revolution, the average household size has shrunk to 2.57 persons from 3.14 - a drop of 18 percent. The meaning? Even a "stagnant" average household income implies a higher standard of living for the average household member.

A closer look at household trends reveals that the percentage of one-person households has jumped to 27 percent from 17 percent. That's right: more than one out of four U.S. households now has only one occupant. Who are these people? Overwhelmingly, they are Generation Xers whose good jobs and high pay have permitted them to move out of their parental homes and establish their own residences. As any parent knows, this transition can bring joy and relief to both parties. But it depresses statistics on average household income. Suppose a 20-year old child leaves the home of a $60,000 family. She moves into her own apartment and takes a $20,000 a year job at Starbucks. Presumably, everyone in this picture is better off, both economically and psychologically. But the Census data won't reflect those gains. Instead, they will show that the average household income has fallen from $60,000 to $40,000.


Mind you, it's a right-wing rag, but right-wing rag has a point.   Also, this is barely pre-2008 crash, so big FWIW over all of this.

And yeah, the side effect of Reagan's economic policies was to let loose the dogs of inequality, it's just that when you do that, it tends to bring up *most* boats (by no means equally) unless there's something else driving them down.

Because otherwise, you're telling me that sending US GDP/capita up to $53,000 from $12,000 did nothing but hand the richest Americans tons of money.  And you're telling me that something like 60% of all people are making less than $12K/year.  And since McD's is paying $9/hour, I KNOW that's not true.

/Not to say that there aren't problems, just that it's not just poverty that's the cause of lower-income households.
 
2014-01-06 03:33:16 PM

meyerkev: gimmegimme: Turbo Cojones: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Isn't everyone? Serious

Nope.

[assets.motherjones.com image 631x346]

Stop using household income.

From http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/5652:

The "typical" household, however, keeps changing. Since 1970, there has been a dramatic rise in divorced, never-married, and single-person households. Back in 1970, the married Ozzie and Harriet family was the norm: 71 percent of all U.S. households were two-parent families. Now the ratio is only 51 percent. In the process of this social revolution, the average household size has shrunk to 2.57 persons from 3.14 - a drop of 18 percent. The meaning? Even a "stagnant" average household income implies a higher standard of living for the average household member.

A closer look at household trends reveals that the percentage of one-person households has jumped to 27 percent from 17 percent. That's right: more than one out of four U.S. households now has only one occupant. Who are these people? Overwhelmingly, they are Generation Xers whose good jobs and high pay have permitted them to move out of their parental homes and establish their own residences. As any parent knows, this transition can bring joy and relief to both parties. But it depresses statistics on average household income. Suppose a 20-year old child leaves the home of a $60,000 family. She moves into her own apartment and takes a $20,000 a year job at Starbucks. Presumably, everyone in this picture is better off, both economically and psychologically. But the Census data won't reflect those gains. Instead, they will show that the average household income has fallen from $60,000 to $40,000.

Mind you, it's a right-wing rag, but right-wing rag has a point.   Also, this is barely pre-2008 crash, so big FWIW over all of this.

And yeah, the side effect of Reagan's economic ...


The main problem is that there are plenty of corporate profits to go around, but as the charts indicate, they're going to a very small percentage of people.  The Dow is at an all-time high.  Bonuses for higher-ups in Corporation-Americans are just fine.  That money is not trickling down; just another lie that we were told when Reagan started this whole mess.

bloggingblue.com
 
2014-01-06 03:37:42 PM

FnkyTwn: What do you people expect from a state who's Republican government decided to change their license plate lettering from blue to red because Obama won?


Let me ask you something, are you really that stupid? My NC red license plate is from early 2007, when there was a Dem governor and a Republican President.

But feel free to go back to your stupid.

/the red plate is annoying, it doesn't go well with my car.
 
2014-01-06 03:38:11 PM
Getting a kick out of the experts on here. Live in NC, Wake County. Mrs. Sandurz is a teacher in Wake county.
A few Facts that might make a difference. Since the article seemed to get it wrong. The masters degree pay was not taken away, it was grandfathered. New masters degree's will not get the stipend. Wake County starts at $35,189. This is with a  bachelors degree. No certification.
http://www.wcpss.net/careers/salary-schedules/teachers/a.html

The fact that NC has been a Dem run state since forever and most of these changes happened under a dem governor isn't getting a lot of talk. eh. go figure.
/Hope that helps
//Grabs popcorn
///slashies come in threes?
 
2014-01-06 03:40:45 PM

Deathfrogg: bratface: $30,800 to start, that is over $2,000 a month (pretty darn good in my book).
'They' know the salary going in (when entering college, etc) and then they biatch about it later?
Teachers have been complaining about their salaries for a 'hundred years'.
Learn to live within your means or get another job?

That is BEFORE taxes.

Rent = $1000/month
Food = $120/month
Electricity = $100/month (give or take)
Motor fuel = $150/month
Water = $60-$80/month
Required education level = Masters degree, therefore student loans in the area of $60,000 - $100,000
so payments in the area of $150/month.

Clothes, shoes, dental care, auto repairs, tires, eyeglasses, internet access, household gas, haircuts, new lawnmower, emergency home repairs, car payments, insurance, toll roads, mandatory continued education credits, personal household items like cleaning supplies, toothpaste, shampoo, soap, asswipe, tampons, hankies, vacuum cleaners, cooking tools, surprise new refrigerator.

Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

Teaching is NOT a beat-up bluejeans and t-shirt job. Teachers are required to wear nice clothing: ties, slacks or decent skirts, good sensible dress shoes. To stand in front of a class in ratty clothes is not going to get a teacher any respect. Such clothing is rather expensive.

The "Conservatives" in this country want everything for free. They do not want to pay for anything, including and especially, LABOR.

You know, actual working people who perform actual work?

They say it flat out, that people who perform LABOR do not deserve to be fairly compensated for it. They would bring back slavery if they had the chance. They say it outright. To the "conservative", only capital has any right to generate income, and that "income" is really "gained capital" so it shouldn't be taxed at all. Labor is always an expense that must be minimized to the greatest degree possible. They don't want to pay people to do work. They only want to pay people for generating more capital, as minimally as possib ...


Deathfrogg,

Still doesn't change what I said (see below).


They' know the salary going in (when entering college, etc) and then they biatch about it later?
Teachers have been complaining about their salaries for a 'hundred years'.
Learn to live within your means or get another job?
 
2014-01-06 03:41:11 PM

Onkel Buck: gimmegimme: Turbo Cojones: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Isn't everyone? Serious

Nope.

[assets.motherjones.com image 631x346]

Can we assume the top 1% are probably pretty educated in order to make all that money? So according to the other charts on this thread most of the 1%er's must vote democrat and therefore are the evil ones.


I deal with 1%ers a LOT.  They tend to be dumb and mean, ESPECIALLY the legacy ones (inherited wealth).
 
2014-01-06 03:42:48 PM
Teachers that are excellent are worth their weight in gold! I had some growing up and they really changed my life for the better. I also had some real idiots who did not like what they were doing and it was obvious to all involved, the problem was and still is we pay the moron teachers and the great teachers the same. I wish we could figure out as a country how to separate the good from the bad. Pay the great ones fire the lousy ones. So basically they should be paid like pretty much every other college educated occupation out there.
 
2014-01-06 03:45:53 PM

chitlenz: I deal with 1%ers a LOT. They tend to be dumb and mean, ESPECIALLY the legacy ones (inherited wealth).


Unmittigated cruelty and disdain for other people is the fastest way to get rich.  The more people you can use, the faster you can make it to the top.  Other things you think might matter: knowledge, skill, intelligence, level-headedness you only need the bare minimum to not screw yourself over.  Otherwise, it's all about how much you can take advantage of others to how rich you can get.
 
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