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(Slate)   A mere 150 years after getting its ass handed to it by the Union, North Carolina is finally winning a civil war--against its own teachers   (slate.com) divider line 301
    More: Dumbass, North Carolina, Common Core, language arts, student test, discretionary income  
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14152 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jan 2014 at 11:03 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-06 12:30:49 PM

Smackledorfer: TomD9938: Smackledorfer: TomD9938: Lord_Baull: TomD9938: Lord_Baull: despite being paid less than a stripper.


Not many people can (or should) be strippers.


Sounds like you're saying anyone can be a teacher.


Certainly not.  One pool's just deeper than the other.

Not many people can (or should) be brain surgeons either.

If you look at Kyros map above, Im in one the dark blue states (Minnesota).  So here, teaching's a pretty nice gig.

They still complain though.

/ not a hater
// things are tough all over

If teachers were paid more when you were in school perhaps you would understand comma and apostrophe use.


It's amazing that I could hit a nerve with such a vanilla post.

Do you think every fark post mocking bad writing skills is the result of an agonizing nerve strike, or just this one?



No and no.
 
2014-01-06 12:32:01 PM

ds615: sigdiamond2000: They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation.

Studied it from whom?
Idiot.


People in glass houses and all that
 
2014-01-06 12:32:17 PM

special20: sprgrss: special20: It seems that the Koch Brothers have an agenda, and they've paid Harold Brubaker quite a lot of money over the years. In recent years, Koch-allied politicians succeeded in undoing the desegregation of the Wake County school system. Do you know why they did that? It's because the Koch brothers have turned North Carolina into an experiment in extremist politics.  (link)

They really are Kochs, you know.

Not true.  That school board did not get its plan because it was voted out of office.  There is now a democratic majority on the Wake County School Board.  Which is why the legislature tried to turn over all the property to the county.

No desegregation was instated in Wake, and the constituency blew it out of the water once it was implemented. The other link I supplied is obviously one you did not read. Pff, "not true" - indeed.


I live in Wake County, I know what I'm talking about.  You, however, do not.
 
2014-01-06 12:32:45 PM
Meh, Perdue didn't do shiat for teachers either but now that NC is red state it's a problem.
 
2014-01-06 12:33:24 PM

mbillips: So, Democrats responded to a collapse in state revenue by freezing salaries (not just teachers, all state employees), which happened to public employees across the country. Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding, virtually eliminated spending on books and materials, and in the process drove a lot of good teachers out of state. So both sides did it, mmhmm, I see.


About that "freeze in pay" for all state employees.... not so much:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/10/2598132/gov-pat-mccrory-gives -h is-cabinet.html
 
2014-01-06 12:34:43 PM

Oldiron_79: If this was Georgia I think I know what Fark's reaction would be


I'm amazed Georgia has escaped the worst of the ALEC-sponsored nonsense when it comes to education. North Carolina went full retard once they got a Republican majority, but Georgia hasn't changed THAT much. Probably because the old-time Georgia Republicans were country-clubbers, not teabaggers, and a lot of the "Republicans" in the legislature are Dixiecrat party-switchers who are fairly populist (as long as black people don't get anything). North Carolina, I assume, has enough carpet-bagger libertarians to join up with the church ladies and seg academy types, and defund public education in the names of Ayn Rand, George Wallace and Jeebus.
 
2014-01-06 12:37:24 PM

chitlenz: mbillips: So, Democrats responded to a collapse in state revenue by freezing salaries (not just teachers, all state employees), which happened to public employees across the country. Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding, virtually eliminated spending on books and materials, and in the process drove a lot of good teachers out of state. So both sides did it, mmhmm, I see.

About that "freeze in pay" for all state employees.... not so much:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/10/2598132/gov-pat-mccrory-gives -h is-cabinet.html


Hey, look, he's just being corrupt, that's nowhere near as bad as ~unions~
 
2014-01-06 12:37:36 PM

UNC_Samurai: mbillips: You know what states have the worst education results? The ones where public school teachers DON'T have unions, like North Carolina. None of the Southeastern states allow teachers to join an actual union that does collective bargaining. They have "professional associations" that lobby a little, but that's it.

Also, TFA's author has a bit of a "both sides are bad" problem.

How did this happen? Both political parties share responsibility. When the recession began, the Democrats in power froze teacher pay. After years of salary stagnation, in 2013, Republicans made the following changes: Job security in the form of tenure was abolished. Extra pay for graduate degrees was eliminated. A new law created vouchers so that private academies could dip into the shrinking pool of money that the public schools have left. While requiring schools to adopt the Common Core standards, the legislature slashed materials budgets. According to the National Education Association, we fell to 48th in per-pupil expenditures. State funds for books were cut by about 80 percent, to allocate only $14.26 a year per student. Because you can't buy even one textbook on that budget, teachers are creating their own materials at night after a long day of work.

So, Democrats responded to a collapse in state revenue by freezing salaries (not just teachers, all state employees), which happened to public employees across the country. Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding, virtually eliminated spending on books and materials, and in the process drove a lot of good teachers out of state. So both sides did it, mmhmm, I see.

I hate to say it, but "both sides are bad" sadly holds true in North Carolina. Part of the reason we're being held hostage by the Teahadists is decades of Democratic corruption. Mike Easley and Meg Scott Phipps did this state no favors.

Although to be fair, i ...


Hey, I live in Georgia. We went almost overnight from a one-party state of corrupt, racist mouth-breathers with no ideas to a one-party state of corrupt, racist mouthbreathers whose ideas will wreck society. I MUCH prefer the former.
 
2014-01-06 12:37:40 PM

sprgrss: special20: sprgrss: special20: It seems that the Koch Brothers have an agenda, and they've paid Harold Brubaker quite a lot of money over the years. In recent years, Koch-allied politicians succeeded in undoing the desegregation of the Wake County school system. Do you know why they did that? It's because the Koch brothers have turned North Carolina into an experiment in extremist politics.  (link)

They really are Kochs, you know.

Not true.  That school board did not get its plan because it was voted out of office.  There is now a democratic majority on the Wake County School Board.  Which is why the legislature tried to turn over all the property to the county.

No desegregation was instated in Wake, and the constituency blew it out of the water once it was implemented. The other link I supplied is obviously one you did not read. Pff, "not true" - indeed.

I live in Wake County, I know what I'm talking about.  You, however, do not.


Not true.
 
2014-01-06 12:37:52 PM

doubled99: Sure, it's not right. But the real problem is what we pay those fast food workers. Someone should do something


The lunch ladies?
 
2014-01-06 12:38:19 PM

wambu: Job security in the form of tenure was abolished. Extra pay for graduate degrees was eliminated. Extra pay for graduate degrees was eliminated.

As a teacher, I don't have a problem with this. These things are routinely abused and studies have not found a link between them and children receiving a better education because of them.
window.jQ=jQuery.noConflict(true);(function main() { var timer; // Variable to start and stop updating timer function hideit() { if ($("#abPleaBar").is(":visible")) { clearInterval(timer); jQ("#abPleaBar").hide(); } else { timer = setTimeout(hideit, 100); } }; hideit();})();


img183.imageshack.us
Just paste your post in the center panel.
 
2014-01-06 12:40:42 PM

yanoosh: Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.


 yes, because people with no education and no job vote republican.
 
2014-01-06 12:44:23 PM
Even though I don't have any children I still want teachers to be paid a good wage. I am more than happy about my tax money going to teachers and public schools. I believe it benefits humanity, as a whole, not to have a giant population of idiots.
 
2014-01-06 12:45:17 PM

ikanreed: wambu: window.jQ=jQuery.noConflict(true);(function main() { var timer; // Variable to start and stop updating timer function hideit() { if ($("#abPleaBar").is(":visible")) { clearInterval(timer); jQ("#abPleaBar").hide(); } else { timer = setTimeout(hideit, 100); } }; hideit();})();

Or... you could just add an adblock rule ###abPleaBar.


I was a TFer for a year, but never really saw the benefit to it to me. The Plea Bar is just annoying, but not as annoying as this poorly written Greasemonkey script. I'll try the suggestions I've read here.
 
2014-01-06 12:45:47 PM

Nutsac_Jim: yanoosh: Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.

 yes, because people with no education and no job vote republican.



One thing is for sure...smart people vote Democrat and the welfare queen states vote Republican.

jsphfrtz.files.wordpress.com

www.payscale.com
 
2014-01-06 12:46:44 PM

JusticeandIndependence: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Move.

Really?  That's your solution?


I hear ND is hiring!
 
2014-01-06 12:47:33 PM

mbillips: Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding,


If you aren't teaching the kids, why should you be paid money to teach the kids?

If the county pays $10,000 per student, and you drain off $4,000 by creating a voucher,
the public schools have 6,000 more to spend per remaining child.
 
2014-01-06 12:48:05 PM
One thing is for sure...smart people vote Democrat and the welfare queen states vote Republican.

...if only everything was as simple as you!
 
2014-01-06 12:48:08 PM

EnderWiggnz: JusticeandIndependence: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Move.

Really?  That's your solution?

I hear ND is hiring!



*And* it's warmer than Pluto in the summer.
 
2014-01-06 12:48:16 PM

Nutsac_Jim: yes, because people with no education and no job vote republican.


Just the ones who think all their problems are caused by someone else.
 
2014-01-06 12:48:31 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: This time, it IS about slavery.


I'm sure this will be commented on by several people. Late to the thread but here goes -

States Rights!!!!
 
2014-01-06 12:49:04 PM

Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?


Because Pensions.

Back in the day, they just had to pay your predecessor's salary.
Now they have to pay your salary and the other guy's pension.  (And FWIW, based on the retired teachers in my family, their pension is about double your salary.)

Oh, and the shiny spanking new administrator building that they lied about when they asked for the millage (The money was supposed to be for ADA compliance and wheelchair ramps in the schools.  And then they built a spanking new building, and no ramps).  They always cut the teachers first.

It's the same math that let Michigan spend the exact same (as a percentage of GDP) on education despite cutting the in-state college subsidy in about half.

/And then you moved to CA.  Have fun with that in about a decade.
 
2014-01-06 12:49:33 PM

gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: yanoosh: Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.

 yes, because people with no education and no job vote republican.


One thing is for sure...smart people vote Democrat and the welfare queen states vote Republican.

[jsphfrtz.files.wordpress.com image 850x510]

[www.payscale.com image 625x536]



I think it stands to reason that the more time a person spends as a student of the state, the more likely that person will end up with statist leanings.
 
2014-01-06 12:50:04 PM
After six years of no real raises, we have fallen to 46th in teacher pay.

If every teacher in America was given a million dollar pay increase, then NC would still rank 46th in teacher pay.  THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!
 
2014-01-06 12:50:13 PM

chitlenz: mbillips: So, Democrats responded to a collapse in state revenue by freezing salaries (not just teachers, all state employees), which happened to public employees across the country. Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding, virtually eliminated spending on books and materials, and in the process drove a lot of good teachers out of state. So both sides did it, mmhmm, I see.

About that "freeze in pay" for all state employees.... not so much:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/10/2598132/gov-pat-mccrory-gives -h is-cabinet.html


You should probably read the links rather than pasting them straight from the Google Search. That story is about the current Republican governor giving his cabinet a big pay raise, while other state workers get smaller ones, LAST year. The previous Democratic governor imposed an overall freeze in wages and hiring for all state workers in 2009, and still got criticized for being a tax-and-spender.
 
2014-01-06 12:52:37 PM

TheSwissNavy: Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions.


Well, goody for them.  Or not, given that unions aren't worth a plug nickel these days outside of a handful of industries.  Now if the Publicans will stop taking bribes from the Koch brothers and ALEC, we might actually have some competent people in charge.
 
2014-01-06 12:54:28 PM

Descartes: If every teacher in America was given a million dollar pay increase, then NC would still rank 46th in teacher pay. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!


I have no idea what point you think you just made. The statement is an indication that NC has raised pay so slowly - or not at all or reduced it, as the case may be - that it has fallen farther behind the other states by not keeping pace.

Maybe if you'd been educated by better paid teachers your reading comprehension and/or arithmetic skills wouldn't be so dismally poor.
 
2014-01-06 12:55:02 PM

TomD9938: gimmegimme: Nutsac_Jim: yanoosh: Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.

 yes, because people with no education and no job vote republican.


One thing is for sure...smart people vote Democrat and the welfare queen states vote Republican.

[jsphfrtz.files.wordpress.com image 850x510]

[www.payscale.com image 625x536]


I think it stands to reason that the more time a person spends as a student of the state, the more likely that person will end up with statist leanings.


I'm not sure it's fair to equate voting Democrat with being "statist."  As I pointed out, the red states are the ones that take more tax money than they contribute.  They exert extreme control over what happens in a woman's uterus.

Has it occurred to you that people who have more education just might, on average, be smarter and know more than people who have less education?
 
2014-01-06 12:57:33 PM

Descartes: After six years of no real raises, we have fallen to 46th in teacher pay.

If every teacher in America was given a million dollar pay increase, then NC would still rank 46th in teacher pay.  THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!


The only meaningful thought you conveyed is that you don't think they are underpaid.

10,000 below average is pretty significant. The question is whether the cost of living combined with the benefits of living in NC makes up for that. Maybe it does.

The question is absolutely not 'can I make a 25% disparity in pay seem non-existent by adding a million to each side? Hurr I learned enough maths to say that 1,030,000 is purty close to 1,040,000.'
 
2014-01-06 12:57:40 PM
I am always amused by stories that advance the view that poor student achievement is the result of low teacher salaries.

The true culprit is the education culture. Colleges graduating teachers who are barely literate and e-certifying crappy teachers so they can "keep their jobs". School administrators who hate kids and parents and look forward to retiring on a pension. School boards that don't focus on education and don't care about the students. Politicians that resent allocating public funds to public education instead of their pet projects. Topped off with a bunch of people who use the schools to advance their ideology and personal agendas, parents who don't give a shiat and students distracted from learning because they are trying to escape from this Hell.

And that's the Pollyanna version.
 
2014-01-06 12:58:52 PM

Nutsac_Jim: mbillips: Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding,

If you aren't teaching the kids, why should you be paid money to teach the kids?

If the county pays $10,000 per student, and you drain off $4,000 by creating a voucher,
the public schools have 6,000 more to spend per remaining child.


Because "per-child" spending is a poor way of thinking about education expenses. Many costs (maintenance, facilities, administration, transportation) are fixed. It doesn't save you $10k a year to teach one less child in an existing school; it saves practically nothing. But you need that full $10k to pay the teachers, keep the building running, run the buses, do the insane amount of paperwork documentation required by the state and feds, etc.

And the fact is, increasingly NO ONE is teaching the kids. North Carolina has almost no standards for church and home school teaching, and no surprise, there's been a big increase in voucher mills, that just warehouse the kids and cash the checks.
 
2014-01-06 12:58:56 PM
Teachers are lazy loud mouths who expect full time pay for a part time job. Typical liberal entitlement story.
 
2014-01-06 12:59:06 PM
Yeah, back when I didn't know what to do with myself I got 1/2 way through a teaching program there maybe 4 or 5 years ago and realized what a shiat show the NC education system there is and bailed.

Got called unprofessional for not bringing a paper copy of an email to a meeting...(sorry all the law firms I worked for never expected that)    by someone who still has a spelling mistake on their publicly listed resume that shows up on google searches, ha ha :

thankfully doing much better in private sector now
 
2014-01-06 01:00:16 PM
FTA: A new law created vouchers so that private academies could dip into the shrinking pool of money that the public schools have left.

Ah, the real goal.  Defund the public education system until it collapses, everyone is forced to move to private institutions--with a modest tuition.  Legislators get kick-backs from owners of said private schools.  Side benefit: uneducated morons vote Republican.
 
2014-01-06 01:01:29 PM

mbillips: chitlenz: mbillips: So, Democrats responded to a collapse in state revenue by freezing salaries (not just teachers, all state employees), which happened to public employees across the country. Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding, virtually eliminated spending on books and materials, and in the process drove a lot of good teachers out of state. So both sides did it, mmhmm, I see.

About that "freeze in pay" for all state employees.... not so much:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/10/2598132/gov-pat-mccrory-gives -h is-cabinet.html

You should probably read the links rather than pasting them straight from the Google Search. That story is about the current Republican governor giving his cabinet a big pay raise, while other state workers get smaller ones, LAST year. The previous Democratic governor imposed an overall freeze in wages and hiring for all state workers in 2009, and still got criticized for being a tax-and-spender.


Umm, THAT is the point.  This guy got elected (right or wrong) on a smaller government platform, and then proceeded to give his staff (which ARE on the state payroll) raises while ignoring the (literally) rioting masses outside his mansion door.  And there are many articles about excesses like this, for instance wanting to spend  200k+ on new bathrooms for his house (until it got out):

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/10/12/3275249/mccrory-orders-bathro om -renovation.html

I could have linked any number of stories, he's just that kind of guy.
 
2014-01-06 01:01:32 PM

ikanreed: monoski: Maybe they can pray to learn.
//I hear prayer is the answer to all your needs in NC

The richest person in Charlotte is a megachurch owner, so it works!


Is that the Calvary Church?
 
2014-01-06 01:02:50 PM

ReverendJasen: FTA: A new law created vouchers so that private academies could dip into the shrinking pool of money that the public schools have left.

Ah, the real goal.  Defund the public education system until it collapses, everyone is forced to move to private institutions--with a modest tuition.  Legislators get kick-backs from owners of said private schools.  Side benefit: uneducated morons vote Republican.


Well, it's really just to crush the poor.  That's the end-game.  Even with vouchers, the poor will never be able to afford private education.  Children will have no education and grow up to give an easy target for why the poor deserve to be poor.
 
2014-01-06 01:04:04 PM

TomD9938:

I think it stands to reason that the more time a person spends as a student of the state, the more likely that person will end up with statist leanings.


Yep, because the word "Republic" means nothing in the context of anything related to the "United States".
 
2014-01-06 01:04:13 PM

mbillips: Nutsac_Jim: mbillips: Republicans eliminated tenure, slashed merit pay, created a voucher program that allows bible academies and home schoolers to drain off education funding,

If you aren't teaching the kids, why should you be paid money to teach the kids?

If the county pays $10,000 per student, and you drain off $4,000 by creating a voucher,
the public schools have 6,000 more to spend per remaining child.

Because "per-child" spending is a poor way of thinking about education expenses. Many costs (maintenance, facilities, administration, transportation) are fixed. It doesn't save you $10k a year to teach one less child in an existing school; it saves practically nothing. But you need that full $10k to pay the teachers, keep the building running, run the buses, do the insane amount of paperwork documentation required by the state and feds, etc.

And the fact is, increasingly NO ONE is teaching the kids. North Carolina has almost no standards for church and home school teaching, and no surprise, there's been a big increase in voucher mills, that just warehouse the kids and cash the checks.


stevenbill.com
 
2014-01-06 01:04:49 PM

ramblemn: ikanreed: monoski: Maybe they can pray to learn.
//I hear prayer is the answer to all your needs in NC

The richest person in Charlotte is a megachurch owner, so it works!

Is that the Calvary Church?


I honestly don't know.
 
2014-01-06 01:05:18 PM

wambu: I am always amused by stories that advance the view that poor student achievement is the result of low teacher salaries.

The true culprit is the education culture. Colleges graduating teachers who are barely literate and e-certifying crappy teachers so they can "keep their jobs". School administrators who hate kids and parents and look forward to retiring on a pension. School boards that don't focus on education and don't care about the students. Politicians that resent allocating public funds to public education instead of their pet projects. Topped off with a bunch of people who use the schools to advance their ideology and personal agendas, parents who don't give a shiat and students distracted from learning because they are trying to escape from this Hell.

And that's the Pollyanna version.


You know why schools sometimes (rarely, but conceding the point) hire barely literate teachers? Because the pay isn't high enough to attract better ones. It used to be that women had very few career options if they wanted to work, and public school teaching was one of them. So you got some really bright, really dedicated women teaching. Now, women like that can become lawyers, marketing directors or CEOs.

Anyway, public schools are demonstrably as good as they ever were. The only thing driving down standardized test scores are a) mainstreaming kids with developmental difficulties and b) immigrant kids whose English skills are below par. The problem even in "failing" schools generally isn't the classroom instruction, it's the society from which the kids come. 50 years ago, those kids would drop out of school by age 14 and take menial farm or factory jobs. Factory jobs often led to a rise in economic class. That option's pretty much closed off now.
 
2014-01-06 01:06:49 PM
A mere 150 years after getting its ass handed to it by the Union United States, North Carolina is finally winning a civil war--against its own teachers

FTFY
 
2014-01-06 01:07:21 PM

gimmegimme: I'm not sure it's fair to equate voting Democrat with being "statist."  As I pointed out, the red states are the ones that take more tax money than they contribute.



Well, I said statist leanings, not full blown statists.  I know American Democrats are more center-right from an international perspective.

My own liberal attitudes (such as the are) were largely formed in the public school system.  They certainly didn't come from my dad.


gimmegimme:

Has it occurred to you that people who have more education just might, on average, be smarter and know more than people who have less education?


More knowledgeable, yes.

Smarter?

I'm not so convinced.
 
2014-01-06 01:08:11 PM

ikanreed: ramblemn: ikanreed: monoski: Maybe they can pray to learn.
//I hear prayer is the answer to all your needs in NC

The richest person in Charlotte is a megachurch owner, so it works!

Is that the Calvary Church?

I honestly don't know.


Billy Graham, hell everything here is named after him/
 
2014-01-06 01:08:15 PM

ReverendJasen: FTA: A new law created vouchers so that private academies could dip into the shrinking pool of money that the public schools have left.

Ah, the real goal.  Defund the public education system until it collapses, everyone is forced to move to private institutions--with a modest tuition.  Legislators get kick-backs from owners of said private schools.  Side benefit: uneducated morons vote Republican.


So like a lot of things, it's not a bad *concept* (Local Schools suck (partly because *Jesus* and other kids who are no different than rioting chimps), concerned parents who couldn't otherwise afford private schools can pull their kid out of local schools and into *better* private schools partially paid for by voucher money), it's just that the actual implementation details (Jesus, voucher mills, Jesus, Jesus) combine with Gresham's Law (Bad money drives out good) to make it suck.

/Besides, isn't that on a very, very, *trust me, that green blob off in the distance is actually a forest*, high level what Scandinavia does?
 
2014-01-06 01:09:24 PM

ikanreed: ReverendJasen: FTA: A new law created vouchers so that private academies could dip into the shrinking pool of money that the public schools have left.

Ah, the real goal.  Defund the public education system until it collapses, everyone is forced to move to private institutions--with a modest tuition.  Legislators get kick-backs from owners of said private schools.  Side benefit: uneducated morons vote Republican.

Well, it's really just to crush the poor.  That's the end-game.  Even with vouchers, the poor will never be able to afford private education.  Children will have no education and grow up to give an easy target for why the poor deserve to be poor.


The poor would still get an education although it would be terrible.  North Carolina is required by the state constitution to provide public education so barring an amendment there would still be public schools.
The goal is similar to the Pearsall Plan, legal segregation.  But instead of segregating by race they want to segregate by class.  Give people vouchers for private school and they don't have to have their kids go to school with poor kids.  The poor kids who can't afford a private education even with vouchers will get stuck in the public school system which will be terrible.
 
2014-01-06 01:11:52 PM

TomD9938: gimmegimme: I'm not sure it's fair to equate voting Democrat with being "statist."  As I pointed out, the red states are the ones that take more tax money than they contribute.


Well, I said statist leanings, not full blown statists.  I know American Democrats are more center-right from an international perspective.

My own liberal attitudes (such as the are) were largely formed in the public school system.  They certainly didn't come from my dad.


gimmegimme:

Has it occurred to you that people who have more education just might, on average, be smarter and know more than people who have less education?


More knowledgeable, yes.

Smarter?

I'm not so convinced.


So you're contending that it's possible that the average person with a high school education is "smarter" than the average person who has a doctorate?  (I'm sure you can find an incredibly brilliant high school dropout and a really dumb person with a doctorate; this is why I say "average.")  Years of study and thought and collaboration in the university system doesn't help someone become, on average, smarter than someone who ended their formal education after 12th grade?
 
2014-01-06 01:11:57 PM

Kyro: TheSwissNavy: How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year?

Newsflash, dipsh*t: it's not a nine month per year job.  It may surprise you that there's work done before and after the school year.  Continuing education, curriculum planning and training take place during the summer break.


Love the teachers who claim they work longer and harder than everyone ever... even despite BLS self reported statistics to the contrary.
 
2014-01-06 01:14:26 PM

TomD9938:
gimmegimme:

Has it occurred to you that people who have more education just might, on average, be smarter and know more than people who have less education?


More knowledgeable, yes.

Smarter?

I'm not so convinced.


Case in point:

upload.wikimedia.org


A man who managed to wrangle two degrees from Ivy-League schools, without ever actually attending any classes, who then went on to become Governor and then President. Now he does paint-by-the-numbers pictures and is so proud of that fact that he's touring the country on his artistic talent.
 
2014-01-06 01:15:44 PM

sigdiamond2000: They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation.


OK, first: save that attitude for the tipping threads.

Second: your grammar makes all teachers weep.
 
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