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(Slate)   A mere 150 years after getting its ass handed to it by the Union, North Carolina is finally winning a civil war--against its own teachers   (slate.com) divider line 300
    More: Dumbass, North Carolina, Common Core, language arts, student test, discretionary income  
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14169 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jan 2014 at 11:03 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-06 10:26:31 AM  
After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.
 
2014-01-06 10:33:12 AM  
Yes, they should of.
 
2014-01-06 10:51:28 AM  
They have teachers?
 
2014-01-06 11:05:53 AM  

sigdiamond2000: They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation.


Studied it from whom?
Idiot.
 
2014-01-06 11:06:03 AM  
what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas.
 
2014-01-06 11:06:39 AM  
1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?
 
2014-01-06 11:07:05 AM  
I never thought I could say I lived in the more sane Carolina.

/marginally more
 
2014-01-06 11:07:06 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Yes, they should of.



Surgical snark, hung with their own rope. I like.
 
2014-01-06 11:07:49 AM  
sigdiamond2000:
They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.

Perhaps they genuinely care about education and children?
 
2014-01-06 11:07:55 AM  
This time, it IS about slavery.
 
2014-01-06 11:08:09 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Yes, they should of.


Principle caught
 
2014-01-06 11:08:36 AM  
They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.
 
2014-01-06 11:10:53 AM  

FlashHarry: what's up with NC lately? after going blue for obama in '08, it now seems to be on track to become a new brownbackian kansas.


Near the worst gerrymandering in the history of the entire country thanks to tea-idiots circa 2010.
 
2014-01-06 11:11:36 AM  
Troll in one!
 
2014-01-06 11:11:42 AM  
See, tenure is a good thing; if you don't have a bunch of dumb boobs sucking at the teat, that is. Someone should, probably, post the how you fire a teacher in New York graphic...
 
2014-01-06 11:11:48 AM  

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.


Talk radio is getting really good at producing passionate vague statements that don't actually say anything.
 
2014-01-06 11:12:46 AM  
"...North Carolina finally gains the upper hand against a union" would have also been acceptable.
 
2014-01-06 11:13:04 AM  

sigdiamond2000: They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


I hope someone in your small business proofreads your letters before you send them out.
 
2014-01-06 11:13:04 AM  

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.


A tad too obvious, but it should get some nibbles.
 
2014-01-06 11:13:32 AM  

Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?


Because Fark you, that's why - NC GOP
 
2014-01-06 11:13:32 AM  
FTA  : Gap store managers on average make about $56,000.


Price?
Tea?
China?

As if successfully running any retail operation is some sort of a cake walk.

It's one of the PR problems teachers have.

Many of them believe that theres is the toughest of occupations and that the rest of us get paid for just showing up.
 
2014-01-06 11:14:06 AM  

WickerNipple: sigdiamond2000:
They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.

Perhaps they genuinely care about education and children?


Won't you think of the children?!

.....

Ok, you can stop thinking about the children now.
 
2014-01-06 11:14:08 AM  

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


Couldn't be bothered to read the article, could ya?
 
2014-01-06 11:14:30 AM  

Snarfangel: "...North Carolina finally gains the upper hand against a union" would have also been acceptable.


North Carolina has had teacher unions be illegal for decades.  That doesn't keep conservative politicians from blaming education problems on "the union"
 
2014-01-06 11:15:17 AM  
Its simple, you raise a generation of stupid uneducated children and they in turn become voting republicans.
 
2014-01-06 11:15:21 AM  
"An elementary school teacher told me that his daughters do not have the chance to play soccer or cello like his students. "
 
2014-01-06 11:15:35 AM  
We learned that, only a few months into the school year, our middle school had no more paper and printer ink and no funds to buy more. The next morning, parents brought them in.

No! Now the legislators will cut even more money because "the students can supply their own supplies."
 
2014-01-06 11:15:42 AM  

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


Yes, tell me about all the teacher unions in NC.
 
2014-01-06 11:15:49 AM  

kregh99: sigdiamond2000: They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.

I hope someone in your small business proofreads your letters before you send them out.


I prefer to share my simulposts with nonfish, but that's not how simulposts work.
/Feh.
 
2014-01-06 11:16:13 AM  
"A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800...It takes North Carolina teachers more than 15 years to earn $40,000".

Clearly the author grew up in North Carolina. Perhaps she meant to say "15 years to SAVE $40,000".
 
2014-01-06 11:16:30 AM  

TomD9938: FTA  : Gap store managers on average make about $56,000.


Price?
Tea?
China?

As if successfully running any retail operation is some sort of a cake walk.

It's one of the PR problems teachers have.

Many of them believe that theres is the toughest of occupations and that the rest of us get paid for just showing up.


Having done both, I can tell you that teaching is a much tougher gig.
 
2014-01-06 11:17:46 AM  
Maybe they can pray to learn.
//I hear prayer is the answer to all your needs in NC
 
2014-01-06 11:17:58 AM  

macross87: Pocket Ninja: Yes, they should of.

Principle caught


Did they sayof what?


Maybe they should be trimming the administration and facilities budgets instead.  The basic function of a school is a teacher in a room.
 
2014-01-06 11:19:29 AM  

TomD9938: FTA  : Gap store managers on average make about $56,000.


Price?
Tea?
China?



Good God, not. There are 1.35 billion people in China. At a teabag per person, even assuming a penny per tea bag for buying in bulk, you are looking at $13.5 million per day.

At best, you are looking at the price of tea in a fair-sized Chinese city.
 
2014-01-06 11:19:51 AM  

monoski: Maybe they can pray to learn.
//I hear prayer is the answer to all your needs in NC


The richest person in Charlotte is a megachurch owner, so it works!
 
2014-01-06 11:20:01 AM  

jso2897: Troll in one!


Not when you are followed by a PN one liner. Guy looks stupid and doesn't get any green arrows for it.
 
2014-01-06 11:20:17 AM  
It's a Slate article and, considering the precipitous decline in quality recently I'm not going to bother reading it, but teacher pay is one of those things I've never understood.

So many people seem to hold the idea that you can pay teacher's a mediocre salary, considering their eduction in particular, and still get quality applicants. Do these people believe this works anywhere else? Do they think you can hire an electrician who will do wiring for you for $20/hour and do a good job of it? A mechanic that will fix your car properly for $25/hour?

Why do people believe that there are certain jobs that you can offer mediocre pay and expect quality work? You would think you want to pay people who are working with and influencing your children a decent salary to encourage quality, but we're constantly talking about cutting pay and benefits, increasing workloads and jacking up performance metrics.

Even if I wanted to be a teacher, there's no way I'd do it. I'm not doing that job for a $40k starting salary that I'll be lucky to jack to $75k if I get a PhD and spend 20 years there. It's just not worth it compared to what I could do in virtually any other professional job.

I'm sorry, having 7 weeks off where I have to do professional development and curriculum planning anyway isn't worth the modest paychecks and benefits compared to what I can get in the private sector. Not by a long shot.

You can have cheap teachers if you want, but you're gonna get cheap people who couldn't hack it in the work world. And then you're gonna biatch about the quality.

Can't have everything.
 
2014-01-06 11:21:29 AM  

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.



Except there's no teacher's union in NC; they have an organization but it's hardly a union in the Northeastern sense of the word.

As for why NC appears to be headed towards being the South's version of Kansas, that's because the last two elections stuffed the legislature with a veto-proof majority of Christian conservatives, Teabaggers and far right anti-government loons. The entire Republican election platform in both 2008 and 2012 was "elect us and we'll bring jobs, jobs, jobs", but once elected they've done nothing about jobs and everything about destroying this state's reputation as the most forward thinking and progressive state in the South.

Teachers have been especially targeted by the legislature; tenure has been removed, forcing every teacher into a 1, 2 or 3 year contract that is evaluated on how well they and their school do performance wise. Some school boards have had their authority removed and given to the state Education Department; for some reason those school districts are all in areas that tend to vote Democrat. In addition, the budget for education is now being divided between the state run systems and private schools under the cloak of "innovation" and 'choice', except the majority of private schools are religious and/or conservative to the core, and usually so exclusive (and expensive) they aren't really needing taxpayer funds to stay afloat.

The outcome of this is already taking shape. Teachers are opting to move to other states, or just quitting the education career completely. The legislature, of course, will just use this as more evidence that public schools are failing and push for less money, more accountability and more limits on the teachers and school districts.
 
2014-01-06 11:22:53 AM  

dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.


See, this is why people think you're a troll account.  Posts like this.  It, at best, is tangentially related to the subject at hand and completely ignores anything in the article or that has been posted by others.
 
2014-01-06 11:23:11 AM  
Oh. Teachers pissing and moaning about everything? Must be a day that ends in "Y"
 
2014-01-06 11:23:22 AM  

give me doughnuts: TomD9938: FTA  : Gap store managers on average make about $56,000.


Price?
Tea?
China?

As if successfully running any retail operation is some sort of a cake walk.

It's one of the PR problems teachers have.

Many of them believe that theres is the toughest of occupations and that the rest of us get paid for just showing up.



Having done both, I can tell you that teaching is a much tougher gig.


Of course it is.  It's a tougher job than every job ever.
 
2014-01-06 11:23:24 AM  

skozlaw: It's a Slate article and, considering the precipitous decline in quality recently I'm not going to bother reading it, but teacher pay is one of those things I've never understood.

So many people seem to hold the idea that you can pay teacher's a mediocre salary, considering their eduction in particular, and still get quality applicants. Do these people believe this works anywhere else? Do they think you can hire an electrician who will do wiring for you for $20/hour and do a good job of it? A mechanic that will fix your car properly for $25/hour?

Why do people believe that there are certain jobs that you can offer mediocre pay and expect quality work? You would think you want to pay people who are working with and influencing your children a decent salary to encourage quality, but we're constantly talking about cutting pay and benefits, increasing workloads and jacking up performance metrics.

Even if I wanted to be a teacher, there's no way I'd do it. I'm not doing that job for a $40k starting salary that I'll be lucky to jack to $75k if I get a PhD and spend 20 years there. It's just not worth it compared to what I could do in virtually any other professional job.

I'm sorry, having 7 weeks off where I have to do professional development and curriculum planning anyway isn't worth the modest paychecks and benefits compared to what I can get in the private sector. Not by a long shot.

You can have cheap teachers if you want, but you're gonna get cheap people who couldn't hack it in the work world. And then you're gonna biatch about the quality.

Can't have everything.


Teacher youth and average pay of teachers are the best predictors of student success, beating out classroom size, average student income, and curriculum availability.
 
2014-01-06 11:24:08 AM  

Snarfangel: "...North Carolina finally gains the upper hand against a union" would have also been acceptable.


Yes. NC isnt warring against teachers or education, its fighting for fiscal solvency. The average public school teacher makes twice what they should, counting benefits and retirement.

The bigger issue is government retirement benefits in general. In 50 years, US life expectancy will be 90, thus bankrupting teacher retirement, SSI, etc. Government employee unions dont care, theyll bankrupt NC like they bankrupted CA and IL,which are insolvent and dependent on tax increases and asset selloffs to pay bills.
 
2014-01-06 11:24:53 AM  

ikanreed: dwrash: They should blame the teachers unions, school boards and other politicians that for decades agreed to contracts with unfunded liabilities.  All the funding has become due now and taxpayers cannot/will not pay up.  It's a shame our kids have to pay the ultimate price for this... but it was inevitable.

All contracts must be FULLY FUNDED NOW instead of later.

Yes, tell me about all the teacher unions in NC.


Unions baaaad; corporations goood.

/ I watched the old Animal Farm cartoon movie thingy on hulu the other day.
 
2014-01-06 11:25:43 AM  
skozlaw:
So many people seem to hold the idea that you can pay teacher's a mediocre salary, considering their eduction in particular, and still get quality applicants. Do these people believe this works anywhere else? Do they think you can hire an electrician who will do wiring for you for $20/hour and do a good job of it? A mechanic that will fix your car properly for $25/hour?

Why do people believe that there are certain jobs that you can offer mediocre pay and expect quality work? You would think you want to pay people who are working with and influencing your children a decent salary to encourage quality, but we're constantly talking about cutting pay and benefits, increasing workloads and jacking up performance metrics.


Teaching = Women's work
Women's work = They should do it for the love of helping others not for any expectation of financial reqard
 
2014-01-06 11:26:19 AM  
It seems that the Koch Brothers have an agenda, and they've paid Harold Brubaker quite a lot of money over the years. In recent years, Koch-allied politicians succeeded in undoing the desegregation of the Wake County school system. Do you know why they did that? It's because the Koch brothers have turned North Carolina into an experiment in extremist politics.  (link)

They really are Kochs, you know.
 
2014-01-06 11:26:26 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Yes, they should of.


Reap what you so what.
 
2014-01-06 11:26:26 AM  

sigdiamond2000: After adjusting for inflation, North Carolina lowered teacher salaries nearly 16 percent from 2002 to 2012, while other states had a median decline of 1 percent. A first-year teacher in North Carolina makes $30,800.

They should of studied something better in college then teaching and maybe they wouldn't be in this situation. As a small business owner, if I see an outfit that is lowering profit for 10 years, I don't invest in that operation. These people need to read an economics book.



Or a grammar and spelling book.
 
2014-01-06 11:27:08 AM  

TheSwissNavy: Snarfangel: "...North Carolina finally gains the upper hand against a union" would have also been acceptable.

Yes. NC isnt warring against teachers or education, its fighting for fiscal solvency. The average public school teacher makes twice what they should, counting benefits and retirement.

The bigger issue is government retirement benefits in general. In 50 years, US life expectancy will be 90, thus bankrupting teacher retirement, SSI, etc. Government employee unions dont care, theyll bankrupt NC like they bankrupted CA and IL,which are insolvent and dependent on tax increases and asset selloffs to pay bills.


*snerk*
Whatever floats your boat.
/It's already protected from the elements, since it's under a bridge.
 
2014-01-06 11:27:20 AM  

farkbot42: Anayalator: 1) That is half the reason I left NC for CA
2) I don't do it for the money, but why are we teachers making less than ten years ago?

Because Fark you, that's why - NC GOP


Unlike the Dems, the GOP doesnt take bribes from government unions. How much should someone with a pud BA degree get for working 9 months a year? $30,000 to start, job security for life, Cadillac benefits, retire after 30 years at half pay, wtf???
 
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