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(Time)   New report from the Romero Finance Institute reveals that people who borrow money will pay more money than they actually borrowed   (business.time.com) divider line 57
    More: Obvious, Greg McBride, second mortgages, bank charge, fixed rate, CRT, prime rate, University of Hartford  
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732 clicks; posted to Business » on 06 Jan 2014 at 4:17 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-06 02:15:59 AM  
Inderest dasting.
 
2014-01-06 03:46:24 AM  
While no one can predict exactly how and when rates will move, "What I do know, however, about the direction of interest rates at this time concerns me,"

SHUT UP ALREADY
 
2014-01-06 05:01:18 AM  
Not sure if subby is illiterate, stupid or both. Obviously it costs money to borrow money. Soon it will cost more than it has recently. That's the point of the article.
 
2014-01-06 06:03:05 AM  
From TFA:

"...Although the average credit card debt held by American households who revolve a balance has fallen from $17,630 in March 2010 to $15,279 today,..."

Is that serious?  No wonder the economy's farked,
 
2014-01-06 06:37:01 AM  

AtlanticCoast63: From TFA:

"...Although the average credit card debt held by American households who revolve a balance has fallen from $17,630 in March 2010 to $15,279 today,..."

Is that serious?  No wonder the economy's farked,


----------------

As of December 30, 2013, the official debt of the United States government is $17.2 trillion ($17,226,768,075,403) which is $140,674 per American household.


i301.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-06 06:43:58 AM  
Every day when I get home and sit down on the couch, a 5 or 10 cent piece inevitably slips out of my pocket and falls down the side.

It's still giving me a better interest rate than my farking bank.
 
2014-01-06 07:31:58 AM  

Bullseyed: Not sure if subby is illiterate, stupid or both. Obviously it costs money to borrow money. Soon it will cost more than it has recently. That's the point of the article.


Are you new to the Romero meme?
 
2014-01-06 07:35:34 AM  

Descartes: AtlanticCoast63: From TFA:

"...Although the average credit card debt held by American households who revolve a balance has fallen from $17,630 in March 2010 to $15,279 today,..."

Is that serious?  No wonder the economy's farked,

----------------

As of December 30, 2013, the official debt of the United States government is $17.2 trillion ($17,226,768,075,403) which is $140,674 per American household.


[i301.photobucket.com image 600x480]


We are approaching a perfect storm of financial disaster. And it's not just the federal debt and obligations. State and local debt and obligations, personal debt, baby boomers who as a generation are woefully unprepared for retirement, the shrinking gap between rich and poor, etc. etc.

The next twenty to thirty years are going to be interesting, and not in a good way.

/short version: we're farked
//long version: we are really, really farked
 
2014-01-06 07:50:20 AM  
Somebody tell my ex-girlfriend, biatch hasn't paid back one dime.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-01-06 08:08:06 AM  
New report from the Romero Finance Institute reveals that people who borrow money will pay more money than they actually borrowed

Banks, on the other hand, sometimes get government loans with negative interest.
 
2014-01-06 08:21:38 AM  

BigBooper: shrinking gap between rich and poor


shrinking? That gap is expanding like the first few moments of the Big Bang.
 
2014-01-06 08:40:25 AM  

AtlanticCoast63: From TFA:

"...Although the average credit card debt held by American households who revolve a balance has fallen from $17,630 in March 2010 to $15,279 today,..."

Is that serious?  No wonder the economy's farked,


It's true, but somewhat meaningless.  It's a mean, not a median, so skewed upwards by a small number of mega-debtors, and it's a mean of only the 30-odd percent of American households who revolve credit card debts.
 
2014-01-06 09:09:21 AM  

JasonOfOrillia: Bullseyed: Not sure if subby is illiterate, stupid or both. Obviously it costs money to borrow money. Soon it will cost more than it has recently. That's the point of the article.

Are you new to the Romero meme?


It isn't being used properly here. A proper Romero headline would be something like "When interest rates rise you pay more to borrow money."
 
2014-01-06 09:12:19 AM  
"Let's say someone has a credit card today with a 24.99% variable APR tied to the prime rate."

I received a preapproved letter for a Lowes card in the mail that had 24.99% APR, I thought people must be out of their damn mind to pay that much interest. There is nothing in the world I need bad enough to pay 25% interest for it, that's just farking crazy.
 
2014-01-06 09:36:16 AM  

AtlanticCoast63: From TFA:

"...Although the average credit card debt held by American households who revolve a balance has fallen from $17,630 in March 2010 to $15,279 today,..."

Is that serious?  No wonder the economy's farked,


I'm thinking the "who revolve a balance" phrase is key in that sentence.  By definition they're NOT counting people with no credit card debt.  The actual nation-wide number would have to be lower.  It's like counting the number of televisions owned by households that have televisions---the number would, by definition, HAVE to be 1 or greater, regardless of what percentage of households actually possessed a television.
 
2014-01-06 09:49:01 AM  

ReapTheChaos: "Let's say someone has a credit card today with a 24.99% variable APR tied to the prime rate."

I received a preapproved letter for a Lowes card in the mail that had 24.99% APR, I thought people must be out of their damn mind to pay that much interest. There is nothing in the world I need bad enough to pay 25% interest for it, that's just farking crazy.


Only reason I have a Lowes card is for 5% off all purchases. I pay it off every month. Considering how much I spend at Lowes, it's a great perk.
 
2014-01-06 09:57:11 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: AtlanticCoast63: From TFA:

"...Although the average credit card debt held by American households who revolve a balance has fallen from $17,630 in March 2010 to $15,279 today,..."

Is that serious?  No wonder the economy's farked,

I'm thinking the "who revolve a balance" phrase is key in that sentence.  By definition they're NOT counting people with no credit card debt.  The actual nation-wide number would have to be lower.  It's like counting the number of televisions owned by households that have televisions---the number would, by definition, HAVE to be 1 or greater, regardless of what percentage of households actually possessed a television.


Exactly.  I don't have a credit card, so therefore I can't possibly have credit card debt.
 
2014-01-06 10:11:02 AM  

ReapTheChaos: I received a preapproved letter for a Lowes card in the mail that had 24.99% APR, I thought people must be out of their damn mind to pay that much interest. There is nothing in the world I need bad enough to pay 25% interest for it, that's just farking crazy.


I think one of my credit cards is up around 20%. Which doesn't bother me at all. I'd have to carry a balance for that to matter.
 
2014-01-06 10:25:58 AM  

ajgeek: BigBooper: shrinking gap between rich and poor

shrinking? That gap is expanding like the first few moments of the Big Bang.


D'oh! I meant expanding, not shrinking.
 
2014-01-06 10:31:06 AM  
I only have about 2 grand on my CC most of that was due to emergency plumbing repairs. I plan on widdling that down this year. (knock on wood)
 
2014-01-06 10:33:39 AM  

Descartes: AtlanticCoast63: From TFA:

"...Although the average credit card debt held by American households who revolve a balance has fallen from $17,630 in March 2010 to $15,279 today,..."

Is that serious?  No wonder the economy's farked,

----------------

As of December 30, 2013, the official debt of the United States government is $17.2 trillion ($17,226,768,075,403) which is $140,674 per American household.



For which we're paying back investors an amount lower than inflation. They're paying us to lose a small amount of wealth in exchange for low risk. Investors wouldn't do that if they felt the U.S. Treasury's creditworthiness was risky. Or, maybe all those investors are dumb.

But them, TFA is about personal debt, not national debt. But you keep on with your pet issue, o brave debt warrior worrier.
 
2014-01-06 10:35:53 AM  

ReapTheChaos: "Let's say someone has a credit card today with a 24.99% variable APR tied to the prime rate."
I received a preapproved letter for a Lowes card in the mail that had 24.99% APR, I thought people must be out of their damn mind to pay that much interest. There is nothing in the world I need bad enough to pay 25% interest for it, that's just farking crazy.


Yep, my wife and I receive 22.99%APR credit card offers at least five times a week. Considering what we went through about five years ago to clean up our credit, and how far ahead we are on our mortgage and car loans... it feels just a bit more insulting every time. Our one credit card through USAA has about half the interest offered by those asshats

thurstonxhowell: ReapTheChaos: I received a preapproved letter for a Lowes card in the mail that had 24.99% APR, I thought people must be out of their damn mind to pay that much interest. There is nothing in the world I need bad enough to pay 25% interest for it, that's just farking crazy.
I think one of my credit cards is up around 20%. Which doesn't bother me at all. I'd have to carry a balance for that to matter.


Depending on the card, your credit score will improve more quickly if you maintain a 25% balance or so. Sometimes it's worth paying the interest to improve your score, especially if you plan to buy a house or get a business loan or something similar in the next few years.
 
2014-01-06 11:07:15 AM  
*Cage-YaDontDay.jpg*
 
2014-01-06 11:08:59 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: I'm thinking the "who revolve a balance" phrase is key in that sentence. By definition they're NOT counting people with no credit card debt. The actual nation-wide number would have to be lower. It's like counting the number of televisions owned by households that have televisions---the number would, by definition, HAVE to be 1 or greater, regardless of what percentage of households actually possessed a television.


Good catch.  That could mean two things, then:
1) People are paying off their debts (not likely), or
2) More people are revolving balances, and these newcomers are dragging down the average

. . . Basically, the stat means jack and shiat as far as economic insight goes.  Par for the course with the media, I guess.
 
2014-01-06 11:13:24 AM  

clkeagle: Depending on the card, your credit score will improve more quickly if you maintain a 25% balance or so. Sometimes it's worth paying the interest to improve your score, especially if you plan to buy a house or get a business loan or something similar in the next few years.


No. Not happening. The limit on that card is something like $15k. I am not keeping an over $3000 balance and paying $600 a year for whatever modest gains that will make for my credit score. I'm well over 700 as-is. I'll take my chances.
 
2014-01-06 11:19:24 AM  

ReapTheChaos: "Let's say someone has a credit card today with a 24.99% variable APR tied to the prime rate."

I received a preapproved letter for a Lowes card in the mail that had 24.99% APR, I thought people must be out of their damn mind to pay that much interest. There is nothing in the world I need bad enough to pay 25% interest for it, that's just farking crazy.


Agreed, but I feel so many of those are scams.

I opened a Macy's card to save money on a big purchase. I made a payment, but their web site doesn't bother to confirm your bank account number (enter twice) or check to make sure it is the correct number of digits. So they waited 1.5 weeks to process it, processed it, it bounced, they waited 2 weeks to send me a letter and in the meantime sent my account to fraud check, charged me a fee, charged me interest and bumped up my interest rate.

Then after I paid it they charged me $2 interest on a $0 balance. I called them and they took the interest off, but after the bill was due so I had to pay it. My card sat at -$2 owed for a couple months as I didn't shop there anymore because I was pissed.

They didn't ding my credit score though.
 
2014-01-06 11:22:41 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: AtlanticCoast63: From TFA:

"...Although the average credit card debt held by American households who revolve a balance has fallen from $17,630 in March 2010 to $15,279 today,..."

Is that serious?  No wonder the economy's farked,

I'm thinking the "who revolve a balance" phrase is key in that sentence.  By definition they're NOT counting people with no credit card debt.  The actual nation-wide number would have to be lower.  It's like counting the number of televisions owned by households that have televisions---the number would, by definition, HAVE to be 1 or greater, regardless of what percentage of households actually possessed a television.


That's like 30% of the country, so divide by 3. Roughly $5k a person.
 
2014-01-06 11:53:29 AM  

Bullseyed: ReapTheChaos: "Let's say someone has a credit card today with a 24.99% variable APR tied to the prime rate."

I received a preapproved letter for a Lowes card in the mail that had 24.99% APR, I thought people must be out of their damn mind to pay that much interest. There is nothing in the world I need bad enough to pay 25% interest for it, that's just farking crazy.

Agreed, but I feel so many of those are scams.

I opened a Macy's card to save money on a big purchase. I made a payment, but their web site doesn't bother to confirm your bank account number (enter twice) or check to make sure it is the correct number of digits. So they waited 1.5 weeks to process it, processed it, it bounced, they waited 2 weeks to send me a letter and in the meantime sent my account to fraud check, charged me a fee, charged me interest and bumped up my interest rate.

Then after I paid it they charged me $2 interest on a $0 balance. I called them and they took the interest off, but after the bill was due so I had to pay it. My card sat at -$2 owed for a couple months as I didn't shop there anymore because I was pissed.

They didn't ding my credit score though.


Yeah, the problem is you not the CC. If you can't even keep your farking checking account straight I dare say your are a farking moron.
 
2014-01-06 11:57:15 AM  
Old Report (dating back to the beginning of mankind) states that Banks and the Bankers that run them have a stranglehold on currency and thus will continue to live off of other people's money.  money other people did actual work to earn.

even the Federal Reserve Banks are privately owned banks.
 
2014-01-06 11:58:40 AM  

Gobobo: Every day when I get home and sit down on the couch, a 5 or 10 cent piece inevitably slips out of my pocket and falls down the side.

It's still giving me a better interest rate than my farking bank.



Banks are there to take your money, not give it away.
 
2014-01-06 12:01:21 PM  

Bullseyed: ReapTheChaos: "Let's say someone has a credit card today with a 24.99% variable APR tied to the prime rate."

I received a preapproved letter for a Lowes card in the mail that had 24.99% APR, I thought people must be out of their damn mind to pay that much interest. There is nothing in the world I need bad enough to pay 25% interest for it, that's just farking crazy.

Agreed, but I feel so many of those are scams.

I opened a Macy's card to save money on a big purchase. I made a payment, but their web site doesn't bother to confirm your bank account number (enter twice) or check to make sure it is the correct number of digits. So they waited 1.5 weeks to process it, processed it, it bounced, they waited 2 weeks to send me a letter and in the meantime sent my account to fraud check, charged me a fee, charged me interest and bumped up my interest rate.

Then after I paid it they charged me $2 interest on a $0 balance. I called them and they took the interest off, but after the bill was due so I had to pay it. My card sat at -$2 owed for a couple months as I didn't shop there anymore because I was pissed.

They didn't ding my credit score though.



again, Banks (and the Insurance companies they own) are there to take your money, not give you money.    the reason they have become so adept at this is because they own many Legislators who do what the banks order them to do bill wise.
 
2014-01-06 12:12:16 PM  
Reads article and sees it is suggesting the cost of borrowing is likely to rise. Seems logical.
 
2014-01-06 12:13:23 PM  

StopLurkListen: But them, TFA is about personal debt, not national debt


But yet, the national debt is a direct liability to all citizens of said country and is in many ways, just like a personal debt.

Yes, there are differences, but you need to also understand what impacts both will have on you.  Sticking your head in the sand because it is not a "personal debt" is dangerous.
 
2014-01-06 12:15:17 PM  

monoski: Reads article and sees it is suggesting the cost of borrowing is likely to rise. Seems logical.


Yeah, about the only real question is when.  With all of free money of QE floating around, if demand ever picks up speed, inflation could become an issue.
 
2014-01-06 12:21:51 PM  
Linux_Yes:
again, Banks (and the Insurance companies they own) are there to take your money, not give you money.    the reason they have become so adept at this is because they own many Legislators who do what the banks order them to do bill wise.

Viva la credit union.
 
2014-01-06 12:43:10 PM  

deaccessioned: Linux_Yes:
again, Banks (and the Insurance companies they own) are there to take your money, not give you money.    the reason they have become so adept at this is because they own many Legislators who do what the banks order them to do bill wise.

Viva la credit union.


yep.  owned by the ones who open accounts.  not out to feed stockholders.  members can vote on staff positions.  tend to give better interest rates. insured by the government just like banks. all around a win win compared to bank criminals.

moved my money to a credit union in 2009 after the 08/09 bank fiasco on wall street.  haven't looked back since.
 
2014-01-06 12:55:19 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: Bullseyed: Not sure if subby is illiterate, stupid or both. Obviously it costs money to borrow money. Soon it will cost more than it has recently. That's the point of the article.

Are you new to the Romero meme?


It may be obvious that people are poor at planning ahead and will get dinged when interests rates do rise, but subby makes no reference to that.
 
2014-01-06 12:58:09 PM  

HeadLever: StopLurkListen: But them, TFA is about personal debt, not national debt

But yet, the national debt is a direct liability to all citizens of said country and is in many ways, just like a personal debt.

Yes, there are differences, but you need to also understand what impacts both will have on you.  Sticking your head in the sand because it is not a "personal debt" is dangerous.


Not even close. They are utterly different, and no, you will not be held personally liable if the government is unable to pay its debt (you will suffer, but not for liability to debt).

Not to mention there is no indication that the US is stetching its credit at all. They are still issuing bonds at next to nothing rates. If the US defaults any time soon it will be due to political issues, not fiscal.
 
2014-01-06 01:07:52 PM  

Linux_Yes: Old Report (dating back to the beginning of mankind) states that Banks and the Bankers that run them have a stranglehold on currency and thus will continue to live off of other people's money.  money other people did actual work to earn.

even the Federal Reserve Banks are privately owned banks.


You need to just leave. There was a movement about 5 years ago to audit the Federal Reserve. You and your lefty brigade came to the rescue.
 
2014-01-06 01:30:55 PM  

dywed88: you will not be held personally liable if the government is unable to pay its debt (you will suffer, but not for liability to debt).


That is my point.  You will suffer in much the same way as if you overextend yourself with personal debt.  As additional personal debt requires interest on loans or CCs, additional national debt will eventually require additional taxes.

In the end, you still end up having to pay more and keep less.

They are still issuing bonds at next to nothing rates. If the US defaults any time soon it will be due to political issues, not fiscal.

They are issuing bods at rock bottom rates because of QE, not because folks are clamoring to buy them.  And you don't require a default for this issue to become a burden on the economy.  As you can see, just the interest obligation will become one of the biggest fiscal issues we have in the future if we don't do something about our national debt.
www.taxnetwealth.com
 
2014-01-06 01:57:35 PM  

HeadLever: dywed88: you will not be held personally liable if the government is unable to pay its debt (you will suffer, but not for liability to debt).

That is my point.  You will suffer in much the same way as if you overextend yourself with personal debt.  As additional personal debt requires interest on loans or CCs, additional national debt will eventually require additional taxes.

In the end, you still end up having to pay more and keep less.

They are still issuing bonds at next to nothing rates. If the US defaults any time soon it will be due to political issues, not fiscal.

They are issuing bods at rock bottom rates because of QE, not because folks are clamoring to buy them.  And you don't require a default for this issue to become a burden on the economy.  As you can see, just the interest obligation will become one of the biggest fiscal issues we have in the future if we don't do something about our national debt.


Yes, there are discussions that need to be had surrounding potential long term issues. But there is no need for any doom and gloom in the short term. In the short term, the only issues around debt are political (if the current attitude in Congress continues, one of these times the Republicans will follow through with their threats around a default).

And it is utterly different from household debt needs to be a completely different discussion. Conflating the two is as bad as the "run government like a business" idiocy.

And, no, the consequences of a default would not look like a household defaulting.
 
2014-01-06 01:57:38 PM  

adm_crunch: ReapTheChaos: "Let's say someone has a credit card today with a 24.99% variable APR tied to the prime rate."

I received a preapproved letter for a Lowes card in the mail that had 24.99% APR, I thought people must be out of their damn mind to pay that much interest. There is nothing in the world I need bad enough to pay 25% interest for it, that's just farking crazy.

Only reason I have a Lowes card is for 5% off all purchases. I pay it off every month. Considering how much I spend at Lowes, it's a great perk.


I spend a lot of money there too, but I already get a 10% military discount so the card would do me no good.
 
2014-01-06 02:13:08 PM  

dywed88: But there is no need for any doom and gloom in the short term.


Not necessarily true.  The longer we kick the can down the road, the harder it will be to correct the path.  While 'doom and gloom' doesn't need to be a part of the discussion, we do need to realize the problem for what it is.

And, no, the consequences of a default would not look like a household defaulting.

I never said it would.
 
2014-01-06 05:03:53 PM  
Sensible use of credit cards can be great for your credit rating, which can get you a better mortgage rate and auto loan rate, which will save you more than the interest you pay on your credit card.
 
2014-01-06 05:24:42 PM  
This thread derailment brought to you by HeadLever and idiots stupid enough to feed the troll.
 
2014-01-06 05:44:25 PM  

DrPainMD: Sensible use of credit cards can be great for your credit rating, which can get you a better mortgage rate and auto loan rate, which will save you more than the interest you pay on your credit card.


So use credit to get get lower rates on more credit and this is a 'savings' ?

No wonder the country looks like this.

static.seekingalpha.com
Eventually we will have enough credit, we can be rich.
 
2014-01-06 05:56:40 PM  

HeadLever: DrPainMD: Sensible use of credit cards can be great for your credit rating, which can get you a better mortgage rate and auto loan rate, which will save you more than the interest you pay on your credit card.

So use credit to get get lower rates on more credit and this is a 'savings' ?

No wonder the country looks like this.

[static.seekingalpha.com image 850x637]
Eventually we will have enough credit, we can be rich.


Do you pay cash for cars and houses?
 
2014-01-06 06:03:10 PM  

DrPainMD: Do you pay cash for cars and houses?


Cars, yes.  Houses, no.
 
2014-01-06 06:28:47 PM  

Nemo's Brother: Linux_Yes: Old Report (dating back to the beginning of mankind) states that Banks and the Bankers that run them have a stranglehold on currency and thus will continue to live off of other people's money.  money other people did actual work to earn.

even the Federal Reserve Banks are privately owned banks.

You need to just leave. There was a movement about 5 years ago to audit the Federal Reserve. You and your lefty brigade came to the rescue.



and the Righties in the CONgress haven't been bought and paid for too??

that's a good one.
 
2014-01-06 06:54:25 PM  
But arbitrary percentages are scary! Why, this year, I financed a vehicle that was almost 200% of my 2012 income! Clearly I'm a spending lunatic!

/I made 11,400 after taxes in 2012, without being unemployed at all
//Got a far better job, escaped from retail, and saved enough for a substantial down payment on a better car
 
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