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(NFL)   Andy Dalton is officially the Tony Romo of the North   (nfl.com) divider line 122
    More: Followup, Chargers, Kansas City Chiefs, Bengals, Marvin Lewis  
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1472 clicks; posted to Sports » on 06 Jan 2014 at 12:51 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-06 03:30:50 PM  

bhcompy: Jekylman: davidphogan: I still have to keep loading nfl.com to believe that the Chargers only have at most three games left.  I'm baffled, and I love it.

Go fark yourself, Norv.

FTA:
Like Norv Turner before him, McCoy has started his career as a Chargers coach with a surprising playoff run.

Difference being that Norv inherited a playoff team that wilted once they got there and McCoy inherited a typical Norv Turner team.

Norv inherited a playoff team, but he also inherited AJ Smith and his complete lack of paying money for offensive lineman, among other things.  It completely derailed the last two years and that's part of why Rivers hasn't looked good at all during the same span.  Behind(or in front of?) every good quarterback is a good offensive line(except maybe Warner's time in Arizona).  They also had bad injuries to key players(LDT, Ryan Matthews, Antonio Gates[2-3 years of plantar fasciitis], nearly every o-lineman, the entire defensive end and linebacker crew, etc) and no depth(AJ Smith's job).

Norv should remain a coordinator, but there were worse things wrong with that team than Norv.

As far as this year, the Chargers seem to have grown into their new system as the season progressed.  I don't think anyone ever doubted they were talented, but people seem to have written off Rivers as worse than Jay Cutler or something.  These people never watched a San Diego game or paid attention to the team reports.


I was just crapping on Norv for his statement last January about how the Chargers were a few years from being a playoff team.
 
2014-01-06 03:41:30 PM  

LucklessWonder: Earthen: aendeuryu: Last I checked, Dalton needs to give us another 5 years of failarity before he can be compared to Romo.

/ was going to add a quip about also playing for an owner who spends stupid money, but it turns out the Cowboys actually have a relatively reasonable payroll right now
// slashies
/// budget slashies

That might be related to the salary cap penalty they were inflicted with. Them and the Redskins went over the cap in the year there was no cap and were punished for a couple years. This year might have been the last year of it, don't recall.

Yeah this season was the last season of the owner of the divisional rival Giants farking over the Cowboys & Redskins for violating a salary cap that didn't bloody exist.

/Collusion
//But they got the CBA so it wasn't pursued.


The reason for the penalty is that they didn't just spend big that year. They restructured long term contracts to take massive cap penalties that year to clear space going forward INTO the capped years.

The rules they broke would have impacted team cap numbers for years (and with the cap rollover in the new CBA that's a huge deal).

I really don't feel the least bit sorry for them. And I'm not even a fan of an NFC team.
 
2014-01-06 03:44:16 PM  

davidphogan: I was just crapping on Norv for his statement last January about how the Chargers were a few years from being a playoff team.


I think with AJ Smith they were.  Getting rid of AJ changed everything.  2 free agent offensive line starters, 1 drafted offensive line starter, a solid alternate back in Woodhead, and now look at Rivers having time to pass, having a run game with Matthews a healthy threat, having Gates finally get healthy, etc.  Their front 7 on defense was just young and they're improving.

Norv ain't a great coach, but he's had awful situations with the Raiders, Skins, and Chargers because of the front office/ownership.
 
2014-01-06 03:46:07 PM  
Brand new year. Same old steaming pile,
 
2014-01-06 04:02:58 PM  

Deneb81: LucklessWonder: Earthen: aendeuryu: Last I checked, Dalton needs to give us another 5 years of failarity before he can be compared to Romo.

/ was going to add a quip about also playing for an owner who spends stupid money, but it turns out the Cowboys actually have a relatively reasonable payroll right now
// slashies
/// budget slashies

That might be related to the salary cap penalty they were inflicted with. Them and the Redskins went over the cap in the year there was no cap and were punished for a couple years. This year might have been the last year of it, don't recall.

Yeah this season was the last season of the owner of the divisional rival Giants farking over the Cowboys & Redskins for violating a salary cap that didn't bloody exist.

/Collusion
//But they got the CBA so it wasn't pursued.

The reason for the penalty is that they didn't just spend big that year. They restructured long term contracts to take massive cap penalties that year to clear space going forward INTO the capped years.

The rules they broke would have impacted team cap numbers for years (and with the cap rollover in the new CBA that's a huge deal).

I really don't feel the least bit sorry for them. And I'm not even a fan of an NFC team.


I don't give a fark. They were told the year would be uncapped due to how the CBA operating at that time worked, and planned for it, reasonably smartly. They then got penalized for VIOLATING A CAP THAT DIDN'T EXIST by a committee that was headed by the owner of a division rival.That's kind of an obvious conflict of interest. Also, it kind of goes against the definition of uncapped if you can be fined for violating an 'uncap..'

/Yes, I'm better
//More cap room might have given the skins a top 25 special teams instead of the utter clownshoes.
 
2014-01-06 04:09:55 PM  

LucklessWonder: SilentStrider: Well, as fate would have it, the Chargers are supposed to win the Super Bowl this year anyway.

/for the same reason the Saints, Packers, Giants, and Ravens did these last four years
//they were in Philly for the home opener.

Hope this streak survives and that the Redskins are Philly's 2014 home opener.



Personally I 'd prefer Philly get themselves as their home opener.
 
2014-01-06 04:15:37 PM  

LucklessWonder: //More cap room might have given the skins a top 25 special teams instead of the utter clownshoes.


Shanahan still would have been the coach.
 
2014-01-06 04:32:20 PM  

bhcompy: davidphogan: I was just crapping on Norv for his statement last January about how the Chargers were a few years from being a playoff team.

I think with AJ Smith they were.  Getting rid of AJ changed everything.  2 free agent offensive line starters, 1 drafted offensive line starter, a solid alternate back in Woodhead, and now look at Rivers having time to pass, having a run game with Matthews a healthy threat, having Gates finally get healthy, etc.  Their front 7 on defense was just young and they're improving.

Norv ain't a great coach, but he's had awful situations with the Raiders, Skins, and Chargers because of the front office/ownership.


It really was mostly on AJ.

The thing is, Norv's offensive scheme has always been predicated on having a strong OL that can protect the QB on slow developing plays. AJ completely abandoned the OL for years through the draft/FA, and the band-aid Gaither signing was the biggest bust since He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named.

Yes, a lot of it falls on Norv, and he should have been fired, because he wouldn't/couldn't change, but I've always thought that AJ set him up for failure, and that Norv got way more shiat than he deserved. AJ left his ass hung out to dry, all the time alienating key players because supposedly he knew better than everyone else.

I honestly can't believe how quickly the Chargers changed from a completely dysfunctional organization who was a minimum 3 years away from sniffing the postseason into the scary underdog playoff team with nothing to lose...McCoy, Whiz, and Pagano have them playing with house money now. Win or lose on Sunday, this season is more than any rational Chargers fan could hope for.
 
2014-01-06 04:38:17 PM  

robsul82: steamingpile: Orgasmatron138: Seriously, steamingpile, you're spending the life you have doing this?

When its this obvious yes, but robs a little biatch and always has been but is more politically correct so he gets away with it when he acts like a little biatch.

LOL, the next time I'm wrong about something, if I don't just claim to be trolling to save face, I'll be sure to remember I mention that I'm being politically incorrect.  Good one, clownshoes.


I found steamingpile in real life!

i151.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-06 04:41:13 PM  

oh_please: bhcompy: davidphogan: I was just crapping on Norv for his statement last January about how the Chargers were a few years from being a playoff team.

I think with AJ Smith they were.  Getting rid of AJ changed everything.  2 free agent offensive line starters, 1 drafted offensive line starter, a solid alternate back in Woodhead, and now look at Rivers having time to pass, having a run game with Matthews a healthy threat, having Gates finally get healthy, etc.  Their front 7 on defense was just young and they're improving.

Norv ain't a great coach, but he's had awful situations with the Raiders, Skins, and Chargers because of the front office/ownership.

It really was mostly on AJ.

The thing is, Norv's offensive scheme has always been predicated on having a strong OL that can protect the QB on slow developing plays. AJ completely abandoned the OL for years through the draft/FA, and the band-aid Gaither signing was the biggest bust since He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named.

Yes, a lot of it falls on Norv, and he should have been fired, because he wouldn't/couldn't change, but I've always thought that AJ set him up for failure, and that Norv got way more shiat than he deserved. AJ left his ass hung out to dry, all the time alienating key players because supposedly he knew better than everyone else.

I honestly can't believe how quickly the Chargers changed from a completely dysfunctional organization who was a minimum 3 years away from sniffing the postseason into the scary underdog playoff team with nothing to lose...McCoy, Whiz, and Pagano have them playing with house money now. Win or lose on Sunday, this season is more than any rational Chargers fan could hope for.


You still lost to the Raiders, Redskins and Texans.  No amount of white washing is getting that stink off you
 
2014-01-06 05:08:50 PM  

LucklessWonder: Yeah this season was the last season of the owner of the divisional rival Giants farking over the Cowboys & Redskins for violating a salary cap that didn't bloody exist.

/Collusion
//But they got the CBA so it wasn't pursued.


Dontcha just love this argument?  Excuses, excuses....
 
2014-01-06 05:10:19 PM  

degenerate-afro: LucklessWonder: //More cap room might have given the skins a top 25 special teams instead of the utter clownshoes.

Shanahan still would have been the coach.


Also:  Maybe if they'd drafted better (considering they had cap room problems) they could've had decent ST.
 
2014-01-06 05:15:07 PM  
Tony Romo has 4 playoff TDs and 2 playoff INTs.

Andy Dalton has 1 playoff TD and 6 playoff INTs.

No.

/Matt Ryan's a better comp with the "I make the playoffs every year to start my career, but get killed every time, with each being more embarrassing than the first."
 
2014-01-06 05:20:17 PM  

Rwa2play: degenerate-afro: LucklessWonder: //More cap room might have given the skins a top 25 special teams instead of the utter clownshoes.

Shanahan still would have been the coach.

Also:  Maybe if they'd drafted better (considering they had cap room problems) they could've had decent ST.


Less salary, plus rookie scale means drafting better doesn't help with depth. And I freely acknowledge that teh Redskins would have been downright terrible even without the cap penalties. It might have meant 4-12 instead of 3-13 with a bit of luck though.
 
2014-01-06 05:26:45 PM  

abhorrent1: RINO: d by the turnover on the Dalton run. I thought the rules say that the ground can not cause a fumble, which is exactly what happened

The ground can't cause a fumble if there's contact. No one touched him, he just coughed it up.


I believe the ground can also cause a fumble if somehow only the ball hits the ground and the player loses control before any body part also hits the ground. If you get upended and break your fall with only the ball (imagine an outstretched hand) then you can fumble it.
 
2014-01-06 05:31:39 PM  

LucklessWonder: Rwa2play: degenerate-afro: LucklessWonder: //More cap room might have given the skins a top 25 special teams instead of the utter clownshoes.

Shanahan still would have been the coach.

Also:  Maybe if they'd drafted better (considering they had cap room problems) they could've had decent ST.

Less salary, plus rookie scale means drafting better doesn't help with depth. And I freely acknowledge that teh Redskins would have been downright terrible even without the cap penalties. It might have meant 4-12 instead of 3-13 with a bit of luck though.


Rookie scale means rookies are paid LESS so it absolutely helps.

The Redskins had no draft picks because of the RG3 trade and no money to sign players. Both are the fault of the front office. They also barely had an RG3, which is also mostly on the front office.

The Redskins and Cowboys tried to game the system and got burned. There's a reason 30 other teams didn't do the same shiat. It wasn't a complicated master-stroke. It was a really simple attempt to cheat the salary cap in the NEW CBA. The punishment is basically just an enforcement of the cap room they WOULD have lost if they didn't try to be too cute with their numbers.
 
2014-01-06 05:33:58 PM  

ShadowKamui: You still lost to the Raiders, Redskins and Texans. No amount of white washing is getting that stink off you


Actually, I couldn't be happier with this team. Given the fact that the Chargers dynamited the front office and most of the coaching staff, were forced to start a ton of rookies, UDFAs and fat guys they pulled out of the stands through a good portion of the season, and are still alive at this point, I'll farking take it.

Fun Fact: The Chiefs, Broncos, and Bengals were a combined 20-0 at home this year until the Chargers came to town.
 
2014-01-06 05:40:21 PM  

SkittlesAreYum: abhorrent1: RINO: d by the turnover on the Dalton run. I thought the rules say that the ground can not cause a fumble, which is exactly what happened

The ground can't cause a fumble if there's contact. No one touched him, he just coughed it up.

I believe the ground can also cause a fumble if somehow only the ball hits the ground and the player loses control before any body part also hits the ground. If you get upended and break your fall with only the ball (imagine an outstretched hand) then you can fumble it.


Think of it like this - the ground can ALWAYS cause a fumble. However, being 'down by contact' takes effect first. So if you are being tackled or were touched while falling you are considered down by contact BEFORE the actual fumble.

If you dive, are touched in the air, and the ball and a hand is the first thing to hit the ground and it pops out before anything els on you touches the ground - it's a fumble. (Note a hand on the ground isn't considered 'down')

Same situation but your elbow hits first? You're down the instant the elbow touches - before the ball can be knocked out by the ground.

For Dalton, he wasn't touched, so he can't be 'down by contact'. Therefore when the ball popped out, it's out.

If you slide or otherwise give yourself up the rule states you're automatically down when you do so. So a slide nets you no extra yards from where you start, but you're safe from fumbles or hits.
 
2014-01-06 05:51:57 PM  

Deneb81: The punishment is basically just an enforcement of the cap room they WOULD have lost if they didn't try to be too cute with their numbers.


Except they probably don't f*ck around if the league wasn't basically admitting to collusion. But then they decided "well, f*ck it, let's admit we were all doing something illegal just so we can punish those teams."

FFS guys, they're Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder; even with all the help they could get they STILL couldn't be successful.
 
2014-01-07 02:09:10 AM  

oh_please: ShadowKamui: You still lost to the Raiders, Redskins and Texans. No amount of white washing is getting that stink off you

Actually, I couldn't be happier with this team. Given the fact that the Chargers dynamited the front office and most of the coaching staff, were forced to start a ton of rookies, UDFAs and fat guys they pulled out of the stands through a good portion of the season, and are still alive at this point, I'll farking take it.

Fun Fact: The Chiefs, Broncos, and Bengals were a combined 20-0 at home this year until the Chargers came to town.


You lost to the 3 worst teams in the NFL; your sub-par defense is getting a year older; due to the Lolphins/Ratbirds choking you backdoor-ed your way into the playoffs and then managing to get the Bungles resulting in an even worse draft picks; and to top it off you're losing the offense coordinator who turned the team around.  Enjoy the back slide next year fanboy
 
2014-01-07 03:06:30 AM  

ShadowKamui: You lost to the 3 worst teams in the NFL; your sub-par defense is getting a year older; due to the Lolphins/Ratbirds choking you backdoor-ed your way into the playoffs and then managing to get the Bungles resulting in an even worse draft picks; and to top it off you're losing the offense coordinator who turned the team around.  Enjoy the back slide next year fanboy


Wouldn't it be worth the Lulz for Rivers to beat Manning, then Brady on their home court just to hear Cris Collinsworth wax rhapsodic about how Phillip Rivers is the greatest pure passer to ever grace the professional football since the days of Dan Fouts.
 
2014-01-07 10:14:58 AM  
3 straight years in the playoffs and an 0-3 record?  Contrast that with the Giants, who have has 3 playoff appearances since the 2007 season, and have two Super Bowls.

Dalton's not getting the Bengals a title.  Neither is Mike Brown.  Time to move on.
 
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