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(CNN)   Because men who buy Corvette Stingrays have absolutely nothing to prove, ever, GM is adding dashcams to all new models that create a video-game like HUD. On the plus side, our national penis length average is about to go up a little bit   (money.cnn.com) divider line 156
    More: Stupid, Corvette Stingray, HUD, glove boxes, video overlay, telemetry, throttles, HD video  
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8852 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jan 2014 at 10:25 PM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



156 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-05 07:51:21 PM  
So if I buy a rusted out '89 Geo Metro with 150000 miles everyone will think I'm packing a 12-incher?
 
2014-01-05 07:58:27 PM  

Twitch Boy: So if I buy a rusted out '89 Geo Metro with 150000 miles everyone will think I'm packing a 12-incher?


My first car was that exact car --- a 3 cylinder, 5 speed manual, in fact. I'm here to say that your theory is sadly incorrect.
 
2014-01-05 09:16:28 PM  
I'd love it if dashboard cameras came standard on all vehicles.  I record all my bike rides "just in case", but have yet to install cameras in my car.

/ NSA and the insurance companies would also love it...
 
2014-01-05 10:28:39 PM  
why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.
 
2014-01-05 10:29:43 PM  
Worked for Hughes Aircraft back in the 80's.  When GM bought us, first thing they did was experiment with a HUD for their cars, built by our engineers.  HUD was discarded as being too distracting for the average driver.  Hmm...I wonder what changed?
 
2014-01-05 10:30:24 PM  
Why aren't there any readily-available dash cams? Those that are out there seem to be from no-name manufacturers and take some effort to find.
 
2014-01-05 10:32:10 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Why aren't there any readily-available dash cams? Those that are out there seem to be from no-name manufacturers and take some effort to find.


every electronics store sells "go-pro" cameras.
 
2014-01-05 10:32:11 PM  
i306.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-05 10:32:31 PM  

serial_crusher: I'd love it if dashboard cameras came standard on all vehicles.  I record all my bike rides "just in case", but have yet to install cameras in my car.

/ NSA and the insurance companies would also love it...


No. quick trips to the titty bar and to get snacks at the Sheetz/WaWa are of no consequences. and I'm tired of Insurance agencies dictating our lives.

If they don't like paying out on good claims, maybe they should stop issuing insurance policies.
 
2014-01-05 10:34:40 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: JohnAnnArbor: Why aren't there any readily-available dash cams? Those that are out there seem to be from no-name manufacturers and take some effort to find.

every electronics store sells "go-pro" cameras.


...which is not a dedicated, leave-it-in-your-car, don't-bother-with-it-until-you-need-to-prove-to-the-cops-that-the-cycl ist-you-ran-over-ran-a-red-light dashcam.
 
2014-01-05 10:35:08 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Why aren't there any readily-available dash cams? Those that are out there seem to be from no-name manufacturers and take some effort to find.


There are android dashcam apps out there that automatically upload video when too many Gs are incurred.  Get a suction mount and face the phone backwards in it.  Maybe $15 total vs hundreds for less functionality.
 
2014-01-05 10:35:18 PM  

Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.


The reason GM tossed the HUD was because, in their testing, they found that drivers were actually more distracted having the HUD than they were having to look down at the instrument panel to check speed, etc.
The HUD pulled too much attention and the drivers, somehow, because they were facing the windshield, believed they were watching the road when they were actually staring at the HUD elements.
 
2014-01-05 10:35:48 PM  
ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2014-01-05 10:37:15 PM  

Twitch Boy: So if I buy a rusted out '89 Geo Metro with 150000 miles everyone will think I'm packing a 12-incher?


I know a place where you can get your 12-incher for $5.
 
2014-01-05 10:39:09 PM  
But the gold chain ratio will go up as well....
 
2014-01-05 10:39:43 PM  
Sounds like subby is obsessed with penises.
I don't think the car you drive has anything to do with it.
Some people just like to spend their money on nice cars.
So what.
 
2014-01-05 10:41:13 PM  
The more frequent the references to 'Nice Car = Small Penis', the smaller the intellect and the greater the jealousy of the idiot making the reference.

/which explains why it's so common on Fark.
 
2014-01-05 10:42:03 PM  

Kenny B: [i306.photobucket.com image 850x637]


Sexy.
 
2014-01-05 10:44:48 PM  

Kenny B: [i306.photobucket.com image 850x637]


Dat ass!

I used to be a total Corvette fanboy (dad owned a '69 with one of those removable roofs) but as I grew up I realized there is much in the world of cars beyond the vette.

/still like them though
//saw a few 2014's going down the road -- awesome
///the museum in bowling green rocks!
 
2014-01-05 10:45:30 PM  
It sounds like it isnt a live HUD. Its video replay HUD so you can correct your tendency to hit the nitrous too soon.
 
2014-01-05 10:46:18 PM  
I wish a HUD could be overlaid on part of the windshield. That would be pretty nice and it could be restricted to maybe three or four elements showing, tops. Speed, gas, alerts. Maybe the fourth element could be navigation queues, like arrows indicating when to turn, distance info from goal.
 
2014-01-05 10:47:39 PM  
I can see lots of great YouTube vids coming from this. Sadly, given the number of talentless hacks driving Corvettes they'll mostly be of a frantically spinning horizon.

Kind of like when little kids are being taped riding bikes, the "hey guys, watch this!" effect this device will have in drivers should be truly impressive.

/not sure why this thread stayed phallic for so long, with so much other low hanging fruit to be had.
 
2014-01-05 10:48:35 PM  

slotz: Worked for Hughes Aircraft back in the 80's.  When GM bought us, first thing they did was experiment with a HUD for their cars, built by our engineers.  HUD was discarded as being too distracting for the average driver.  Hmm...I wonder what changed?


I think the deal is the HUD is added to the dash-cam recording, not actually on the windshield.

Basically, you drive like an asshole, and share the video with all the data printed on the video that shows how much of an asshole you are while driving.
 
2014-01-05 10:48:41 PM  

Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.


THIS. They've been putting basic HUD's in one or two random models of car for decades already. There's no reason all cars shouldn't have a HUD at this point.

JohnAnnArbor: The_Original_Roxtar: JohnAnnArbor: Why aren't there any readily-available dash cams? Those that are out there seem to be from no-name manufacturers and take some effort to find.

every electronics store sells "go-pro" cameras.

...which is not a dedicated, leave-it-in-your-car, don't-bother-with-it-until-you-need-to-prove-to-the-cops-that-the-cycl ist-you-ran-over-ran-a-red-light dashcam.


I found a jillion of them on Amazon, which is where I bought mine. They're more popular overseas, so you'll see them produced by electronic brands not common to America. But mine coming from some brand I never heard of doesn't stop it from recording video to my microsd card... Search for dashcam on Amazon, read the reviews of some in the pricerange you're looking to spend and buy one. Heck, they have a bunch of them eligible for Prime.
 
2014-01-05 10:49:57 PM  

skinink: I wish a HUD could be overlaid on part of the windshield. That would be pretty nice and it could be restricted to maybe three or four elements showing, tops. Speed, gas, alerts. Maybe the fourth element could be navigation queues, like arrows indicating when to turn, distance info from goal.


GMC has pretty much that in some models.
 
2014-01-05 10:49:59 PM  

skinink: I wish a HUD could be overlaid on part of the windshield. That would be pretty nice and it could be restricted to maybe three or four elements showing, tops. Speed, gas, alerts. Maybe the fourth element could be navigation queues, like arrows indicating when to turn, distance info from goal.


I'd also like a nightvision image to be able to be overlaid at night. But I'd settle for just the basics so we wouldn't have to take our eyes off the road to glance at our gauges.
 
2014-01-05 10:51:06 PM  

skinink: I wish a HUD could be overlaid on part of the windshield. That would be pretty nice and it could be restricted to maybe three or four elements showing, tops. Speed, gas, alerts. Maybe the fourth element could be navigation queues, like arrows indicating when to turn, distance info from goal.


I'd also need total ammo left, hi score and lives remaining.
 
2014-01-05 10:51:38 PM  
I drove one in the new game Gran Turismo 6.  If the game is accurate, it is not too bad, but the GT-R Touring car is much better.   It tends to spin out a lot and is hard to slow down, also jumps the curb in turns a lot if you are not used to it.  Sony calls the game a driving simulator.  Not sure I could drive such a fast car in real life since you don't get to restart when you crash.
 
2014-01-05 10:52:41 PM  

baorao: It sounds like it isnt a live HUD. Its video replay HUD so you can correct your tendency to hit the nitrous too soon.


This is the intent.

drumhellar: slotz: Worked for Hughes Aircraft back in the 80's.  When GM bought us, first thing they did was experiment with a HUD for their cars, built by our engineers.  HUD was discarded as being too distracting for the average driver.  Hmm...I wonder what changed?

I think the deal is the HUD is added to the dash-cam recording, not actually on the windshield.

Basically, you drive like an asshole, and share the video with all the data printed on the video that shows how much of an asshole you are while driving.


This is the effect.
 
2014-01-05 10:53:04 PM  

Twitch Boy: So if I buy a rusted out '89 Geo Metro with 150000 miles everyone will think I'm packing a 12-incher?


I own both a 2-seater sub-compact and a 3/4-ton 4x4. The size-shifting is incredibly painful.
 
2014-01-05 10:54:03 PM  

rev. dave: I drove one in the new game Gran Turismo 6.  If the game is accurate, it is not too bad, but the GT-R Touring car is much better.   It tends to spin out a lot and is hard to slow down, also jumps the curb in turns a lot if you are not used to it.  Sony calls the game a driving simulator.  Not sure I could drive such a fast car in real life since you don't get to restart when you crash.


I'm pretty sure Top Gear tested this and found that, yes, Gran Turismo is insanely realistic... but your lap time will be a good deal slower in real life because of the fear of death.
 
2014-01-05 10:55:15 PM  
This will make it so much easier for the cops to bust you for speeding.
 
2014-01-05 10:55:32 PM  
Um....whatsa matter Subby, didums daddy dwive a Corvette and not wuv you da wight way?
 
2014-01-05 10:55:32 PM  
I was pleased to see a run time of 13 hours listed, possibly even in HD? I thought dashcams generally recycled on a 30 minute loop. Keep on improving.
 
2014-01-05 10:56:48 PM  
I wouldn't mind side cams, so when you get dinged by some wench that opens the door and just lets go and her door swings into the next car, and she doesn't even bat an eyelash, well, you can punch in her license into your phone and go to her house at 7pm and take a few swings at her doors with a sledgehammer.

/1 period, 1 capital
 
2014-01-05 11:02:26 PM  
Will I be able to post my high scores to Facebook?
 
2014-01-05 11:04:05 PM  

Piizzadude: Will I be able to post my high scores to Facebook?


OnStar will ensure that happens automatically.
 
2014-01-05 11:06:17 PM  
HUD was created before video games.
 
2014-01-05 11:07:45 PM  

bigsmellypenis: HUD was created before video games.


Yes, but the HUD from TFA is clearly inspired by video games.

i2.cdn.turner.com

Funny thing about articles... if you read them, you're less likely to say irrelevant things in the thread.
 
2014-01-05 11:08:50 PM  
I'm looking to get a camera system like this in my car to record autocross runs, but they're really expensive.  I could just cobble something together with the Torque app and a separate camera, but I can't find a reference for my car's extended PIDs, and I really want some of that extended data.
 
2014-01-05 11:10:52 PM  
What's stupid about it?
A:Toyota didn't come up with it first?
B: Your Jetta didn't come  with it?
C: You just hate American cars
/BTW this is to improve your driving
 
2014-01-05 11:11:13 PM  
I dunno, man. Most video games I know have much nicer looking HUDs than that. Colors all over the place, no consistency in design. It's a mess.
 
2014-01-05 11:13:15 PM  
All things being equal, this means that a woman that drives this, or a comparable car, must have a very small vagina. This explains why every time I see one driving a car like this I get all flustered and sweaty and think to myself "WOW THAT'S TIGHT!"
 
2014-01-05 11:15:05 PM  

Rhino_man: bigsmellypenis: HUD was created before video games.

Yes, but the HUD from TFA is clearly inspired by video games.

[i2.cdn.turner.com image 620x348]

Funny thing about articles... if you read them, you're less likely to say irrelevant things in the thread.

Except this is NOT HUD it's a performance data recorder
http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/5/5275778/2015-corvette-performance-d at a-recorder-video-game-driving
 
2014-01-05 11:16:03 PM  

Rhino_man: bigsmellypenis: HUD was created before video games.

Yes, but the HUD from TFA is clearly inspired by video games.

[i2.cdn.turner.com image 620x348]

Funny thing about articles... if you read them, you're less likely to say irrelevant things in the thread.


Don't be ridiculous. I'm never less likely to say irrelevant things in the thread.

Thanks, Obama.
 
2014-01-05 11:17:18 PM  

delsydsoftware: Twitch Boy: So if I buy a rusted out '89 Geo Metro with 150000 miles everyone will think I'm packing a 12-incher?

My first car was that exact car --- a 3 cylinder, 5 speed manual, in fact. I'm here to say that your theory is sadly incorrect.


You certainly had 12 inches...  12 inch rims.
 
2014-01-05 11:19:19 PM  

skinink: I wish a HUD could be overlaid on part of the windshield. That would be pretty nice and it could be restricted to maybe three or four elements showing, tops. Speed, gas, alerts. Maybe the fourth element could be navigation queues, like arrows indicating when to turn, distance info from goal.


You gotta get to the Fifth Element...she's hot
 
2014-01-05 11:20:55 PM  
One of these days this idea of needing a computer interface between a person and the world for everything will come to an end.
 
2014-01-05 11:22:07 PM  
Haters gotta hate

www.egmcartech.com
 
2014-01-05 11:22:21 PM  

slotz: Worked for Hughes Aircraft back in the 80's.  When GM bought us, first thing they did was experiment with a HUD for their cars, built by our engineers.  HUD was discarded as being too distracting for the average driver.  Hmm...I wonder what changed?


Two whole generations that have grown up surrounded by technology?
 
2014-01-05 11:25:12 PM  

leadmetal: One of these days this idea of needing a computer interface between a person and the world for everything will come to an end.


It'll be right after the Butlerian Jihad, IIRC.
 
2014-01-05 11:25:22 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Haters gotta hate


Still prefer my Tesla.
 
2014-01-05 11:26:06 PM  
mongbiohazard
I found a jillion of them on Amazon, which is where I bought mine. They're more popular overseas, so you'll see them produced by electronic brands not common to America. But mine coming from some brand I never heard of doesn't stop it from recording video to my microsd card... Search for dashcam on Amazon, read the reviews of some in the pricerange you're looking to spend and buy one. Heck, they have a bunch of them eligible for Prime.

Starting at about $60 they are available for anyone that wants one. Just keep in mind, if you f**kup, it could be used against you.

http://dashcamtalk.com/dash-cam-comparison/
 
2014-01-05 11:27:52 PM  
No no no, wanting a 'video game HUD' makes men who drive this 'man children'.  Much more encompassing than mere emasculation it questions the victim's very competence and worth in society.
 
2014-01-05 11:28:08 PM  
They should have passenger compartment cameras.  Onstar can  charge 1000 to report pics
of who stole the car.

They can also charge 1000 to the owner to have a switch that will disable taking pictures of the female passenger.

And charge 2000 to the housewife to reactivate the passenger camera, so she can have more evidence before taking half his stuff.
 
2014-01-05 11:36:48 PM  

Rhino_man: rev. dave: I drove one in the new game Gran Turismo 6.  If the game is accurate, it is not too bad, but the GT-R Touring car is much better.   It tends to spin out a lot and is hard to slow down, also jumps the curb in turns a lot if you are not used to it.  Sony calls the game a driving simulator.  Not sure I could drive such a fast car in real life since you don't get to restart when you crash.

I'm pretty sure Top Gear tested this and found that, yes, Gran Turismo is insanely realistic... but your lap time will be a good deal slower in real life because of the fear of death.


Good to know, I love the game, learning a lot about cars that I never really cared much about before.
The 2 tracks I had the hardest time driving on with it were Willow Springs, very difficult, but I could not keep it on the super difficult Nürburgring track.
 
2014-01-05 11:41:23 PM  
In all fairness, I wanted a Corvette long before I knew what my penis was for, it's size vs. the average, and well before I had any interest in impressing women.

Of course, I still don't have one.  Not that I couldn't get one if I wanted, but mainly because I'm a cheap bastid.
 
2014-01-05 11:43:06 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Twitch Boy: So if I buy a rusted out '89 Geo Metro with 150000 miles everyone will think I'm packing a 12-incher?

I own both a 2-seater sub-compact and a 3/4-ton 4x4. The size-shifting is incredibly painful.


Spend too much time in the pool do you?
 
2014-01-05 11:44:27 PM  
Those are not Stingrays. They're certainly Chevys, and they may even be Corvettes, but the last Stingray rolled off the line in 1979.
 
2014-01-05 11:44:37 PM  

rev. dave: Rhino_man: rev. dave: I drove one in the new game Gran Turismo 6.  If the game is accurate, it is not too bad, but the GT-R Touring car is much better.   It tends to spin out a lot and is hard to slow down, also jumps the curb in turns a lot if you are not used to it.  Sony calls the game a driving simulator.  Not sure I could drive such a fast car in real life since you don't get to restart when you crash.

I'm pretty sure Top Gear tested this and found that, yes, Gran Turismo is insanely realistic... but your lap time will be a good deal slower in real life because of the fear of death.

Good to know, I love the game, learning a lot about cars that I never really cared much about before.
The 2 tracks I had the hardest time driving on with it were Willow Springs, very difficult, but I could not keep it on the super difficult Nürburgring track.


I thought Jeremy Clarkson did some laps in an Acura NSX and they proved it was horribly inaccurate, like the brakes on a stock car would be demolished after like two turns at full speed...

But my memory isn't th... wait, what? What were we talking about? Bowling? Yeah, I guess I like bowling. But my memory isn't so great nowadays. But yeah, I do like brownies.
 
2014-01-05 11:49:31 PM  
Poor people seem obsessed with dick size.
 
2014-01-05 11:49:57 PM  
www.pitch.com
 
2014-01-05 11:53:31 PM  

TinyFist: rev. dave: Rhino_man: rev. dave: I drove one in the new game Gran Turismo 6.  If the game is accurate, it is not too bad, but the GT-R Touring car is much better.   It tends to spin out a lot and is hard to slow down, also jumps the curb in turns a lot if you are not used to it.  Sony calls the game a driving simulator.  Not sure I could drive such a fast car in real life since you don't get to restart when you crash.

I'm pretty sure Top Gear tested this and found that, yes, Gran Turismo is insanely realistic... but your lap time will be a good deal slower in real life because of the fear of death.

Good to know, I love the game, learning a lot about cars that I never really cared much about before.
The 2 tracks I had the hardest time driving on with it were Willow Springs, very difficult, but I could not keep it on the super difficult Nürburgring track.

I thought Jeremy Clarkson did some laps in an Acura NSX and they proved it was horribly inaccurate, like the brakes on a stock car would be demolished after like two turns at full speed...


I own an E92 M3 and track a C6 Z06. Gran Turismo 6 is not realistic with either of those cars. And you have to remember, Clarkson, May, and Hammond are columnists/entertainers, not "drivers" as it were.
 
2014-01-05 11:53:58 PM  
I don't know if I can blame subby or CNN for misleading the entire article and headline on Fark, but this is what exactly this is about http://gizmodo.com/the-new-corvette-stingray-will-come-with-built-in- i nsta-1495268605
It's not HUD this was introduced at CES today along with in car 4G LTE from GM and At&t
 
2014-01-05 11:59:49 PM  

exatron: I know a place where you can get your 12-incher for $5.


i42.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-06 12:00:23 AM  

i262.photobucket.com

In Queensland, Australia, Stingray owns YOU!

 
2014-01-06 12:01:02 AM  

Enemabag Jones: mongbiohazard
I found a jillion of them on Amazon, which is where I bought mine. They're more popular overseas, so you'll see them produced by electronic brands not common to America. But mine coming from some brand I never heard of doesn't stop it from recording video to my microsd card... Search for dashcam on Amazon, read the reviews of some in the pricerange you're looking to spend and buy one. Heck, they have a bunch of them eligible for Prime.

Starting at about $60 they are available for anyone that wants one. Just keep in mind, if you f**kup, it could be used against you.

http://dashcamtalk.com/dash-cam-comparison/


Mine was $52 when I got it. It has two cameras, one for the front and one for the back. To get one that cheap with two cameras I had to make some tradeoffs.... Night time imaging sucks, the battery is useless and I needed to Google the Chinese character for "Language" to be able to find the menu entry to switch the GUI to English (which sort of amused me more than anything else since that only took a few seconds to figure out). It didn't like the first spare microsd card I had laying around I tried to use in it first (video files would start getting corrupted about 1/2 way to work), but the second card I tried worked like a charm.

It's just fine for my purposes. I was driving all around the metro area for work at the time, and even now I live about 34 miles away from my office so I have a long drive every day. I drive a lot, and I'm not worried about it catching me doing something wrong at all since I drive defensively. It might save my tush though at some point since I've seen all sorts of stupidity out on the roads around here... and I'd rather not have some rich douchebag do something stupid and have it just be his word against mine.

My wife wasn't keen on me spending money on one, so I had to keep the cost down to keep her from beating me up about it, and all the driving I'm most worried about covering is during the daytime - to, from and during work - so it will work for me for for now. At some point I'll spring for a better one with better nightvision.

Thanks a lot for the link! I'll keep that bookmarked for when I do decide to upgrade...
 
2014-01-06 12:03:00 AM  

Begoggle: Sounds like subby is obsessed with penises.
I don't think the car you drive has anything to do with it.
Some people just like to spend their money on nice cars.
So what.


It's a dying meme - like the "everyone who buys a lottery ticket is a moron" which got squashed when Farkers finally understood the reward of just contemplating what you would do with the money.

Now the penis-envy boys are being called out - guys buy cool cars/big trucks for many reasons - too bad if you can't keep up
 
2014-01-06 12:04:36 AM  
I find it fascinating that OP feels people buy corvettes  just to make him jealous and "prove something", and not because they want to buy a fun toy for their own personal has-absolutely-nothing-to-do-with-you amusement.

Says a lot about you and your farked up self-centered perspective of the world.
 
2014-01-06 12:04:43 AM  

mjjt: It's a dying meme - like the "everyone who buys a lottery ticket is a moron" which got squashed when Farkers finally understood the reward of just contemplating what you would do with the money.


You really have to pay a tax to use your imagination?
 
2014-01-06 12:05:45 AM  
your Android phone can work as a hud.
Just find a gps speedometer app. Most have invert image option. Lay it on the dash (w/velcro) and instant hud!
 
2014-01-06 12:07:10 AM  
Dashcams are common in Russia, bc the cops are corrupt.

They got popular in Britain when people started organizing rear-end accidents and claiming whiplash from the insurers.

Now (also in Britain) you can film someone driving dangerously, upload it to a cop website, and the guy gets prosecuted.

Not only is the govt spying on you, but so are your neighbours
 
2014-01-06 12:07:42 AM  

Fish in a Barrel: I'm looking to get a camera system like this in my car to record autocross runs, but they're really expensive.  I could just cobble something together with the Torque app and a separate camera, but I can't find a reference for my car's extended PIDs, and I really want some of that extended data.


For the iPhone, try Harry's lap timer. Combine it with an external GPS antenna, and a good, solid mount. It's not quite a dedicated system, but it's pretty good. I know a couple of people who own them. I heard there's some good stuff for Androids too.

Dedicated data recording systems (like Traqmate, RLC, Aim, etc.) start at a few hundred bucks, but generally you'll need to spend a couple of hundred more to integrate a camera. They tend to have better accuracy than the phone based systems, plus they have a bunch of input channels so you can gather data about the car (e.g. RPM, brake line pressure) in real time. The most useful thing is that they include software which allows you to do comprehensive analysis of your laps after the fact. I had a pro drive my car once this year, and looking at his data vs. mine was educational. And depressing. I'd be pretty surprised if GM doesn't supply analysis SW.

Assuming this works even half as well as the stand-alone systems, It'll be a good tool for 'vette owners who track their cars (They exist! No, really! I've seen them). But if the data's in a proprietary format, it's gonna be limiting, 'cause 1/4 of the fun is swapping data files with fellow racers.
 
2014-01-06 12:10:53 AM  

mjjt: Dashcams are common in Russia, bc the cops are corrupt.


Well... they're popular in Russia because of insurance fraud.  People will literally jump out in front of your car and get hit on purpose for the settlement in Russia.
 
2014-01-06 12:12:46 AM  

slotz: Worked for Hughes Aircraft back in the 80's.  When GM bought us, first thing they did was experiment with a HUD for their cars, built by our engineers.  HUD was discarded as being too distracting for the average driver.  Hmm...I wonder what changed?


GM bought Hughes in 85. Any cars in the development cycle at that time would likely not be able to have anything from Hughes in it. Usually takes about 5-10 years to incorporate things into a car (wait for current model to finish and get it into the next model). GM offered a HUD in the Grand Prix and C5 Corvette. Both cars were released in 1997.
 
2014-01-06 12:13:11 AM  
As someone who has spent several years racing everything with wheels and still does trackdays now and then... This sounds pretty sweet.

About time they just started throwing in really nice datalogging packages into production trackday cars.
 
2014-01-06 12:16:33 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Those are not Stingrays. They're certainly Chevys, and they may even be Corvettes, but the last Stingray rolled off the line in 1979.


Chevrolet made every Stingray corvette ever made. They conceived of it, designed it, named it and built it. They made the last one for the 1979 model year and stopped for a good long time. But if Chevrolet decides they're designing and building a new corvette model and badging it as a Stingray, then guess what.
 
2014-01-06 12:25:50 AM  
Domestics. Bah. Wake me up when they start making this again:

www.diseno-art.com
 
2014-01-06 12:28:06 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: You really have to pay a tax to use your imagination?


I can give a dollar to the system that helps fund education and have a little thrill in my imagination, or I could spend that dollar on 3/4 of a candy bar.  Since I don't mind paying taxes, and I know there are children who could use the funds provided by the lottery, why not play even if the chance of winning is non-existent?

As for the car...who cares?  The driver influenced by this is probably going to act like a jackass regardless.  The kid he runs over while doing 100 mph in a residential neighborhood is still going to die, it hardly matters if the driver is pretending he's getting a high score.
 
2014-01-06 12:28:33 AM  
I have a 2000 LS1 (the same aluminum-block 5.7 liter engine in the corvette) Z28 Camaro and holy hell is it fast. I've driven corvettes too and they're a little faster but the difference is negligible. The gap can be closed with an exhaust and some computer tuning. Mine only has 40,000 miles on it because it's 'my other car' and I only drive it occasionally. I love that car and at this point can't really ever see myself parting with it, but this new generation of corvettes sure do make a compelling argument for replacing it at some time in the future if I get to thinking about it too much. They's purrrty.
 
2014-01-06 12:29:40 AM  

skinink: I wish a HUD could be overlaid on part of the windshield. That would be pretty nice and it could be restricted to maybe three or four elements showing, tops. Speed, gas, alerts. Maybe the fourth element could be navigation queues, like arrows indicating when to turn, distance info from goal.


Several cars have this already.  My brother's Mazda, for example, has a holographic HUD that shows speed, which direction to turn at the next light (connected to the nav system), and I think maintenance type stuff, though I'm not sure about the last one.
 
2014-01-06 12:31:28 AM  
I don't want extra fancy expensive stuff on my car.

These days, low-end cars are good enough, and I don't ever want to bother with an auto loan again.  Every thousand dollars I spend on my car is a week I'm not spending on the beach in Thailand or Fiji or someplace every summer.

Having money doesn't mean you  have to spend it on stuff that's only good for showing off.  If your prioritize stuff you really like, then you save every penny when it comes to things you don't care about, then you can live it up a bit and still save enough to retire.  Spending $8000 every 10 years on your car instead of $30000 every five years is a good start.
 
2014-01-06 12:32:21 AM  

Enemabag Jones: Starting at about $60 they are available for anyone that wants one. Just keep in mind, if you f**kup, it could be used against you.

http://dashcamtalk.com/dash-cam-comparison/


So why aren't there any hidden models in that list?  Around here people are breaking to cars to steal the things so they can put their stolen car trip on you tube for their friends.  I want one with a hidden front and rear camera an SD memory slot.  GPS would be useful but not needed but low cost helps.  It seems that many of the $100 models way out perform the $300 ones.
 
2014-01-06 12:40:16 AM  

mjjt: Begoggle: Sounds like subby is obsessed with penises.
I don't think the car you drive has anything to do with it.
Some people just like to spend their money on nice cars.
So what.

It's a dying meme - like the "everyone who buys a lottery ticket is a moron" which got squashed when Farkers finally understood the reward of just contemplating what you would do with the money.

Now the penis-envy boys are being called out - guys buy cool cars/big trucks for many reasons - too bad if you can't keep up


I'm pretty poor, and I think this stereotype/meme is dumb as hell. When I get a better job and have a comfortable amount of money saved up, damn right I'm going to stop driving a generic base-model GM (currently a G6).
 
2014-01-06 12:41:04 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Those are not Stingrays. They're certainly Chevys, and they may even be Corvettes, but the last Stingray rolled off the line in 1979 1976.


FTFY
 
2014-01-06 12:44:06 AM  
Subby has enough Jelly to feed the nations poor.
 
2014-01-06 12:53:02 AM  

Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.


You do know that police can use your own HUD speed reading against you, right?  At least they wear legally able to here in NY.  Last thing I want is my speed displayed on my windshield for everyone else to read.
 
2014-01-06 12:53:38 AM  
Ha!

You know what I say whenever I see some overblown, hot roddedm steroided out American muscle car that looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor?

I say "Dang, man.  At's a nice car."

/Ha!
 
2014-01-06 12:54:50 AM  

slotz: Worked for Hughes Aircraft back in the 80's.  When GM bought us, first thing they did was experiment with a HUD for their cars, built by our engineers.  HUD was discarded as being too distracting for the average driver.  Hmm...I wonder what changed?


And yet, a couple years later, the HUD option was made available, on not only Caddys, but also Pontiac Grand Prixs with the GTP option, I believe.
 
2014-01-06 12:56:59 AM  

Kenny B:


Fudge I love those cars. Hate the shoes on that one though...
 
2014-01-06 01:03:45 AM  
Dr Jack Badofsky ,
Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.
You do know that police can use your own HUD speed reading against you, right? At least they wear legally able to here in NY. Last thing I want is my speed displayed on my windshield for everyone else to read.


I had one on a pontiac. I think it was dropped and is not so common because of a patent issue that GM cost. And other people can't see it . It isn't like a old overhead projector if you know what that is. It has to be tuned directionally very tightly and is only can be seen by the driver to the best of my knowledge. Maybe the backseat behind the driver could set it, but no others.

It was really nice.
 
2014-01-06 01:14:13 AM  

Enemabag Jones: Dr Jack Badofsky ,
Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.
You do know that police can use your own HUD speed reading against you, right? At least they wear legally able to here in NY. Last thing I want is my speed displayed on my windshield for everyone else to read.

I had one on a pontiac. I think it was dropped and is not so common because of a patent issue that GM cost. And other people can't see it . It isn't like a old overhead projector if you know what that is. It has to be tuned directionally very tightly and is only can be seen by the driver to the best of my knowledge. Maybe the backseat behind the driver could set it, but no others.

It was really nice.


At night, they most surely can see it, and write you a ticket based on its reading even if they fail to get a radar readout, because that's the speed that the gauge in front of you was displaying, and you chose to acknowledge it if you didn't allofasudden reduce speed when realizing what it read.  It's not rocket science...anymore.  (actually, it's fighter jet science)
 
2014-01-06 01:21:16 AM  

bunner: Ha!

You know what I say whenever I see some overblown, hot roddedm steroided out American muscle car that looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor?

I say "Dang, man.  At's a nice car."

/Ha!


Yeah, I was never really a fan of muscle cars till a few years ago when they came out with the modern versions.  The old ones may have had muscle under the hood, but the cars looked as wimpy as any other car.  The new ones (updated charger, camaro, mustang, etc.) really come off as powerful and mean.  I'll still never buy one, but I can really appreciate them.
 
2014-01-06 01:31:21 AM  

Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.


I think thats the next thing to be standard in cars, usually it starts with luxury cars then filters down so in a few years all cars will have HUDs, they are nice and beyond useful, since in rental cars it can be hard to find the speedometer quickly, they arent all in the same place.
 
2014-01-06 01:33:33 AM  

Emposter: bunner: Ha!

You know what I say whenever I see some overblown, hot roddedm steroided out American muscle car that looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor?

I say "Dang, man.  At's a nice car."

/Ha!

Yeah, I was never really a fan of muscle cars till a few years ago when they came out with the modern versions.  The old ones may have had muscle under the hood, but the cars looked as wimpy as any other car.  The new ones (updated charger, camaro, mustang, etc.) really come off as powerful and mean.  I'll still never buy one, but I can really appreciate them.


The best ones are the sleepers.  Startig with the mustangs/camaros from the late 80's to now, EFI makes things so much easier to make power while retaining drivability.  Easy to slip a built 350 into an F-body, or a built 351 into a Fox chassis or SN95.  I would love a recent Boss though.  Probably the best, most balanced street offering in decades from any American maker.
 
2014-01-06 02:24:31 AM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: Enemabag Jones: Dr Jack Badofsky ,
Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.
You do know that police can use your own HUD speed reading against you, right? At least they wear legally able to here in NY. Last thing I want is my speed displayed on my windshield for everyone else to read.

I had one on a pontiac. I think it was dropped and is not so common because of a patent issue that GM cost. And other people can't see it . It isn't like a old overhead projector if you know what that is. It has to be tuned directionally very tightly and is only can be seen by the driver to the best of my knowledge. Maybe the backseat behind the driver could set it, but no others.

It was really nice.

At night, they most surely can see it, and write you a ticket based on its reading even if they fail to get a radar readout, because that's the speed that the gauge in front of you was displaying, and you chose to acknowledge it if you didn't allofasudden reduce speed when realizing what it read.  It's not rocket science...anymore.  (actually, it's fighter jet science)


And you simply install a smaller set of tires on your car and say "i knew 70 meant 65"
 
2014-01-06 02:48:10 AM  
Night vision would be the cat's ass.
 
2014-01-06 03:35:43 AM  

slotz: Worked for Hughes Aircraft back in the 80's.  When GM bought us, first thing they did was experiment with a HUD for their cars, built by our engineers.  HUD was discarded as being too distracting for the average driver.  Hmm...I wonder what changed?


Read the article, this isn't a HUD.
 
2014-01-06 04:16:07 AM  

kidgenius: slotz: Worked for Hughes Aircraft back in the 80's.  When GM bought us, first thing they did was experiment with a HUD for their cars, built by our engineers.  HUD was discarded as being too distracting for the average driver.  Hmm...I wonder what changed?

GM bought Hughes in 85. Any cars in the development cycle at that time would likely not be able to have anything from Hughes in it. Usually takes about 5-10 years to incorporate things into a car (wait for current model to finish and get it into the next model). GM offered a HUD in the Grand Prix and C5 Corvette. Both cars were released in 1997.


Dr Jack Badofsky: slotz: Worked for Hughes Aircraft back in the 80's.  When GM bought us, first thing they did was experiment with a HUD for their cars, built by our engineers.  HUD was discarded as being too distracting for the average driver.  Hmm...I wonder what changed?

And yet, a couple years later, the HUD option was made available, on not only Caddys, but also Pontiac Grand Prixs with the GTP option, I believe.


I had it on my 1997 Pontiac GTP coupe, found it quite useful as well as a bit of a party-piece.  It was first available on the 1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Pace Car Replica.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display#Automobiles">http://en. wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display#Automobiles
 
2014-01-06 04:26:03 AM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: Enemabag Jones: Dr Jack Badofsky ,
Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.
You do know that police can use your own HUD speed reading against you, right? At least they wear legally able to here in NY. Last thing I want is my speed displayed on my windshield for everyone else to read.

I had one on a pontiac. I think it was dropped and is not so common because of a patent issue that GM cost. And other people can't see it . It isn't like a old overhead projector if you know what that is. It has to be tuned directionally very tightly and is only can be seen by the driver to the best of my knowledge. Maybe the backseat behind the driver could set it, but no others.

It was really nice.

At night, they most surely can see it, and write you a ticket based on its reading even if they fail to get a radar readout, because that's the speed that the gauge in front of you was displaying, and you chose to acknowledge it if you didn't allofasudden reduce speed when realizing what it read.  It's not rocket science...anymore.  (actually, it's fighter jet science)


Yes, it could only be seen, from the inside, by the driver and the back seat passenger, behind the driver.  Of course, the driver would have to get their head out of the way, and the back seat passenger would have to crane their necks way up until their head was touching the ceiling.

I did several night walkarounds, when I had my 97 GTP with the HUD. The only way I could see the projection from the outside was to put my head directly above the cowl, where the windshield meets it, about 2-3 feet above it.  I don't think any cop is going to be able to see that.  Of course, the old system didn't record info; it just presented it, so YMMV with the new system.
 
2014-01-06 04:40:13 AM  

Enemabag Jones: Dr Jack Badofsky ,
Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.
You do know that police can use your own HUD speed reading against you, right? At least they wear legally able to here in NY. Last thing I want is my speed displayed on my windshield for everyone else to read.

I had one on a pontiac. I think it was dropped and is not so common because of a patent issue that GM cost. And other people can't see it . It isn't like a old overhead projector if you know what that is. It has to be tuned directionally very tightly and is only can be seen by the driver to the best of my knowledge. Maybe the backseat behind the driver could set it, but no others.

It was really nice.


I think it was available on the GTP and the Trans-Am all the way until the end of Pontiac.  My Google-fu is not that great, but here's a link for the Grand Prix.  http://www.ranrich.com/gp1997.htm">http://www.ranrich.com/gp1997.htm
 
2014-01-06 05:14:20 AM  

slotz: Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.

The reason GM tossed the HUD was because, in their testing, they found that drivers were actually more distracted having the HUD than they were having to look down at the instrument panel to check speed, etc.
The HUD pulled too much attention and the drivers, somehow, because they were facing the windshield, believed they were watching the road when they were actually staring at the HUD elements.


I know we all think we are superior at everything here on fark, but I am not surprised in the least that a HUD is distracting.

I know one would distract me, and honestly I dislike most of the newer dash and radio options. I want a dial for the radio tuner, not a seek button with a hold option to scroll. I want tactile feedback on every button and knob. I want a clear view of where I am going without salient features that draw the focus of my eyes. And fark the touchscreen crap they've played around with.

If you are superior, that is great. Not only do I not hold any delusions in that respect, but I know even as an average driver half the people on the road are worse. Why increase the odds of a bad driver hitting you?
 
2014-01-06 05:38:53 AM  

slotz: Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.

The reason GM tossed the HUD was because, in their testing, they found that drivers were actually more distracted having the HUD than they were having to look down at the instrument panel to check speed, etc.
The HUD pulled too much attention and the drivers, somehow, because they were facing the windshield, believed they were watching the road when they were actually staring at the HUD elements.


Interesting. I wonder if it could be a training/experience issue. Surely a generation raised on games would be more used to having a screen overlay- I'm looking forward to getting that new garmin that projects onto the screen. The device shown in the article looks a bit distracting with all the colors though. All I really need is speedometer and gas gauge, maybe the radio station in the corner.

cdn-www.airliners.net
Pilots obviously have been trained in this, but then, I guess they are the best of the best, and used to traveling in the... DANGER ZONE
 
2014-01-06 05:42:22 AM  
Subby sounds poor and jealous.
 
2014-01-06 06:26:49 AM  
This is awesome for people who actually track day their cars. But is sounds like subby has no idea what a track day is and is illiterate.
 
2014-01-06 06:30:02 AM  
I just can't win.  Friend said my rav 4 was a lesbian car and have been told that my truck makes it look like I'm compensating for "something" .  I am not sure what to do.. Buy a Prius and pretend to be gay I guess.
 
2014-01-06 06:39:55 AM  

Fish in a Barrel: I'm looking to get a camera system like this in my car to record autocross runs, but they're really expensive.  I could just cobble something together with the Torque app and a separate camera, but I can't find a reference for my car's extended PIDs, and I really want some of that extended data.


Torquerecorder, a plugin for Torque, does this perfectly. I think it is even developed by the same dev.
 
2014-01-06 07:04:32 AM  
Does the drinking game apply here too?
 
2014-01-06 07:22:42 AM  

Twitch Boy: So if I buy a rusted out '89 Geo Metro with 150000 miles everyone will think I'm packing a 12-incher?


Well I assume people that like to push the nice car=small penis meme have even smaller penii than they are wishing on the nice car driver because they are obsessed with floppy wiener.
 
2014-01-06 07:57:27 AM  
I can't afford a nice things like you. You must have a small penis LOL!
 
2014-01-06 07:58:30 AM  
GM needs to make up its mind whether it wants to sell a profitable super car, or a cheap super car for the slightly better-heeled masses. The latter isn't going to make money, because it relies on unrealistic sales requirements. Make a BETTER Corvette, something that actually competes with Porsche, Lamborghini et. al. in terms of not just performance, but ride sophistication and quality, and super rich people will buy enough of them to justify the marque. Chevy won't make a lot of money from them, but they'll keep the prestige of the badge, which would drive sales of Camaros, etc.
 
2014-01-06 08:19:11 AM  

mbillips: GM needs to make up its mind whether it wants to sell a profitable super car, or a cheap super car for the slightly better-heeled masses. The latter isn't going to make money, because it relies on unrealistic sales requirements. Make a BETTER Corvette, something that actually competes with Porsche, Lamborghini et. al. in terms of not just performance, but ride sophistication and quality, and super rich people will buy enough of them to justify the marque. Chevy won't make a lot of money from them, but they'll keep the prestige of the badge, which would drive sales of Camaros, etc.


They do. Might want to do your research. Libs hate American cars, we get it. But at least read.
 
2014-01-06 08:23:07 AM  

skinink: I wish a HUD could be overlaid on part of the windshield. That would be pretty nice and it could be restricted to maybe three or four elements showing, tops. Speed, gas, alerts. Maybe the fourth element could be navigation queues, like arrows indicating when to turn, distance info from goal.


Sygic GPS can do this, at least the Android version, although since it's standalone, it obviously doesn't have access to any of the vehicle-specific data.  It works fairly well at dusk/night/dawn, but isn't bright enough to be of much use during the day.  Still, a pretty nice GPS setup in general if you don't want to shell out for a dedicated unit.

/I don't work for them or anything, just like their software and their prices
 
2014-01-06 08:49:34 AM  
i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-01-06 08:51:24 AM  

Oldiron_79: Twitch Boy: So if I buy a rusted out '89 Geo Metro with 150000 miles everyone will think I'm packing a 12-incher?

Well I assume people that like to push the nice car=small penis meme have even smaller penii than they are wishing on the nice car driver because they are obsessed with floppy wiener.


I'm pretty sure Haterade is made 90% of the tears of people that assume if any man has it better than them, it must be because they are compensating for their penis. I don't think size queens think about dick as much as they do.
 
2014-01-06 08:52:09 AM  

skinink: I wish a HUD could be overlaid on part of the windshield. That would be pretty nice and it could be restricted to maybe three or four elements showing, tops. Speed, gas, alerts. Maybe the fourth element could be navigation queues, like arrows indicating when to turn, distance info from goal.


Uh... They had that in the 90s on a few cars. Several GM models had it available (Pontiac Bonneville, Grand Prix, Buick Park Ave, and some others) and, oddly enough, top of the line Nissan Altimas had it, too. I'm sure there were others. Usually, they'd show speed, alerts, and a couple other things. They were never all that popular.
 
2014-01-06 09:13:31 AM  

serial_crusher: I'd love it if dashboard cameras came standard on all vehicles.  I record all my bike rides "just in case", but have yet to install cameras in my car.

/ NSA and the insurance companies would also love it...


I have one in each of my cars and the insurance company said they don't care.  They gave a reason but it didn't make any sense.
 
2014-01-06 09:44:48 AM  

neilbradley: TinyFist: rev. dave: Rhino_man: rev. dave: I drove one in the new game Gran Turismo 6.  If the game is accurate, it is not too bad, but the GT-R Touring car is much better.   It tends to spin out a lot and is hard to slow down, also jumps the curb in turns a lot if you are not used to it.  Sony calls the game a driving simulator.  Not sure I could drive such a fast car in real life since you don't get to restart when you crash.

I'm pretty sure Top Gear tested this and found that, yes, Gran Turismo is insanely realistic... but your lap time will be a good deal slower in real life because of the fear of death.

Good to know, I love the game, learning a lot about cars that I never really cared much about before.
The 2 tracks I had the hardest time driving on with it were Willow Springs, very difficult, but I could not keep it on the super difficult Nürburgring track.

I thought Jeremy Clarkson did some laps in an Acura NSX and they proved it was horribly inaccurate, like the brakes on a stock car would be demolished after like two turns at full speed...

I own an E92 M3 and track a C6 Z06. Gran Turismo 6 is not realistic with either of those cars. And you have to remember, Clarkson, May, and Hammond are columnists/entertainers, not "drivers" as it were.


1.  Gran Turismo is not insanely realistic.  It is well behind sims like iRacing, rFactor, Assetto Corsa, RaceRoom Experience, Project C.A.R.S., and even its rival Forza.

2.  None of the console sims simulate brake fade.

3.  Gran Turismo has never had accurate kerbing in their games.

4.  Why are you even comparing a touring car with a factory stock car in the first place?
 
2014-01-06 09:57:30 AM  

Thunderpipes: mbillips: GM needs to make up its mind whether it wants to sell a profitable super car, or a cheap super car for the slightly better-heeled masses. The latter isn't going to make money, because it relies on unrealistic sales requirements. Make a BETTER Corvette, something that actually competes with Porsche, Lamborghini et. al. in terms of not just performance, but ride sophistication and quality, and super rich people will buy enough of them to justify the marque. Chevy won't make a lot of money from them, but they'll keep the prestige of the badge, which would drive sales of Camaros, etc.

They do. Might want to do your research. Libs hate American cars, we get it. But at least read.


No, they don't. I watch Top Gear, and they test Corvettes every time a new one comes out. They always marvel at the power and track performance, but also talk about how technologically primitive, uncomfortable and cheaply made they are. There's a reason a Corvette costs two-thirds to half the price of a Porsche 911 with similar performance. It's not engineered or manufactured as well. You want to compete head-to-head with Audi-engineered Lamborghinis, you're going to have to charge a lot more than $60k. All the truly great American luxury and performance cars from the turn of the 20th century through the '50s were EXPENSIVE. A top-of-the-line 1950s Cadillac cost more than a contemporary Rolls Royce, and was a much better car.
 
2014-01-06 10:07:03 AM  

TrotlineDesigns: I just can't win.  Friend said my rav 4 was a lesbian car and have been told that my truck makes it look like I'm compensating for "something" .  I am not sure what to do.. Buy a Prius and pretend to be gay I guess.


or just drive whatever you want to spend your money on, and tell your friend to f off

i drive a 2005 scion xb 1.8l 4 cyl, and i don't feel like any less of a man than when i had a 74 chevy nova with a 350. it takes a lot less gas than the nova, that's for sure!
 
2014-01-06 10:27:50 AM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.

You do know that police can use your own HUD speed reading against you, right?  At least they wear legally able to here in NY.  Last thing I want is my speed displayed on my windshield for everyone else to read.


Why? It's not legally required to accurately report your speed -- it just cannot underestimate it. But it's usually set at the factory to 2-3 mph over your actual travel speed at highway speeds. Some manufacturers try to get it under 1 mph off, though.

\unless you change your tire size...
 
2014-01-06 10:28:56 AM  
While this is going to encourage reckless driving, at least they'll be a video record to prove these drivers were at fault.
 
2014-01-06 10:30:04 AM  

mbillips: technologically primitive, uncomfortable and cheaply made


fark yes, that just translates to "cheap and light", which many car buyers prefer. I wish they still made cheap, light, janky cars in Japan, but they don't because everyone is so "aspirational", your office admin has to have leather and two sunroofs. The new Civic is twice as heavy as the one they made 20 years ago.

Everyone imagines themselves as sophisticated connoisseurs of comfort and build quality.  More comfort features mean more weight. More weight means worse performance. Worse performance means you're getting less for your money and what you do get has to work harder, so it breaks down sooner.

/yelling at cloud
 
2014-01-06 10:32:06 AM  

mbillips: GM needs to make up its mind whether it wants to sell a profitable super car, or a cheap super car for the slightly better-heeled masses. The latter isn't going to make money, because it relies on unrealistic sales requirements. Make a BETTER Corvette, something that actually competes with Porsche, Lamborghini et. al. in terms of not just performance, but ride sophistication and quality, and super rich people will buy enough of them to justify the marque. Chevy won't make a lot of money from them, but they'll keep the prestige of the badge, which would drive sales of Camaros, etc.


Lamborghinis don't have ride sophistication. They're a slightly more affordable Ferrari.
Porsche can't decide if it wants to be Ferrari or BMW.
The Corvette has always been a car that can keep up with a super car, but at a 1/4 the price. Consider it an entry-model race car.
 
2014-01-06 10:34:45 AM  

mbillips: No, they don't. I watch Top Gear, and they test Corvettes every time a new one comes out. They always marvel at the power and track performance, but also talk about how technologically primitive, uncomfortable and cheaply made they are. There's a reason a Corvette costs two-thirds to half the price of a Porsche 911 with similar performance. It's not engineered or manufactured as well. You want to compete head-to-head with Audi-engineered Lamborghinis, you're going to have to charge a lot more than $60k. All the truly great American luxury and performance cars from the turn of the 20th century through the '50s were EXPENSIVE. A top-of-the-line 1950s Cadillac cost more than a contemporary Rolls Royce, and was a much better car.


The engineering on the Corvette is just fine. It just requires more tradeoffs to reach the price point, and what's sacrificed is NVH perks and materials quality. But then, dedicated race cars aren't comfortable, either.
 
2014-01-06 10:50:38 AM  

Dougie AXP: serial_crusher: I'd love it if dashboard cameras came standard on all vehicles.  I record all my bike rides "just in case", but have yet to install cameras in my car.

/ NSA and the insurance companies would also love it...

No. quick trips to the titty bar and to get snacks at the Sheetz/WaWa are of no consequences. and I'm tired of Insurance agencies dictating our lives.

If they don't like paying out on good claims, maybe they should stop issuing insurance policies.


Well you obviously did not learn one dam thing about insurance companies. If you are in an accident the first thing you should do is hire a lawyer to talk to your insurance company. Yeah that's right I said hire a lawyer to fight the company you were paying for insurance. Don't try and talk to an agent your self they figure you are a chump, just go straight to the law talking dudes.
 
2014-01-06 10:53:34 AM  

RockofAges: Plymouth Acclaim


Used to drive one of those, actually liked it. I remember when American brands tried to compete with Japanese cars instead of making boomer bonermobiles. Doesn't anyone remember how SLOW muscle cars were?

Most muscle cars were considered "sporty" because they could be made kinda fast in a straight line by bolting on parts. But from the factory, they performed like shiat. They caught the imagination of boomers because they looked fast and sounded fast, and imports were verboten back in the day, so we had nothing to compare them to. We look back on them as classics because we don't remember actually driving them. They got 13mpg and for that you got mostly sound and sheet metal.

I've driven old Chargers, Furies, etc, and I am surprised anyone thought of them as performance cars.
 
2014-01-06 11:08:11 AM  

kidgenius: slotz: Worked for Hughes Aircraft back in the 80's.  When GM bought us, first thing they did was experiment with a HUD for their cars, built by our engineers.  HUD was discarded as being too distracting for the average driver.  Hmm...I wonder what changed?

GM bought Hughes in 85. Any cars in the development cycle at that time would likely not be able to have anything from Hughes in it. Usually takes about 5-10 years to incorporate things into a car (wait for current model to finish and get it into the next model). GM offered a HUD in the Grand Prix and C5 Corvette. Both cars were released in 1997.


I said "experimented" not "produced."  It was recognized as a failure in testing which is why you didn't see it widely incorporated.  So I guess the use of "tossed" is an overstatement; my apologies.
 
2014-01-06 11:09:56 AM  
Glitchwerks:1.  Gran Turismo is not insanely realistic.  It is well behind sims like iRacing, rFactor, Assetto Corsa, RaceRoom Experience, Project C.A.R.S., and even its rival Forza.

GT on the other hand is accessible with a controller, and the driving dynamics are pretty good for a console game.  I wouldn't want to try playing iRacing with anything other than a good wheel/pedals.
 
2014-01-06 11:34:13 AM  
Your penis-extending vehicles don't actually extend your penises, so the national average penis size would stay the same.

/you're welcome, tiny dick subby
 
2014-01-06 11:35:06 AM  
... or if you wanted HUD... you could just always wear your helmet.

http://www.skullyhelmets.com/heads-up-display-helmet/
 
2014-01-06 11:36:00 AM  

This text is now purple: mbillips: No, they don't. I watch Top Gear, and they test Corvettes every time a new one comes out. They always marvel at the power and track performance, but also talk about how technologically primitive, uncomfortable and cheaply made they are. There's a reason a Corvette costs two-thirds to half the price of a Porsche 911 with similar performance. It's not engineered or manufactured as well. You want to compete head-to-head with Audi-engineered Lamborghinis, you're going to have to charge a lot more than $60k. All the truly great American luxury and performance cars from the turn of the 20th century through the '50s were EXPENSIVE. A top-of-the-line 1950s Cadillac cost more than a contemporary Rolls Royce, and was a much better car.

The engineering on the Corvette is just fine. It just requires more tradeoffs to reach the price point, and what's sacrificed is NVH perks and materials quality. But then, dedicated race cars aren't comfortable, either.


The article is about how they're going to stop making Corvettes, because the market for half-price supercars just isn't there. I'm theorizing they could save the Corvette by making it a full-price supercar, and selling fewer of them. There hasn't been an American car that competed equally with European top-line luxury or performance cars since the '50s, which is too bad. We used to lead the world in car design and technology, and now we just lead on value for money. We could do both, in different market segments, but our car companies choose not to, with the exception of Tesla.
 
2014-01-06 12:55:23 PM  

This text is now purple: Dr Jack Badofsky: Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.

You do know that police can use your own HUD speed reading against you, right?  At least they wear legally able to here in NY.  Last thing I want is my speed displayed on my windshield for everyone else to read.

Why? It's not legally required to accurately report your speed -- it just cannot underestimate it. But it's usually set at the factory to 2-3 mph over your actual travel speed at highway speeds. Some manufacturers try to get it under 1 mph off, though.

\unless you change your tire size...


I have no idea why someone would install smaller diameter tires on their car, low riders aside.  It would make no sense to kill your mileage like that for the minimal gain in improved acceleration.  I guess you could argue that, but I would guess that a judge would see right through it.
 
2014-01-06 01:03:16 PM  

mccallcl: RockofAges: Plymouth Acclaim

Used to drive one of those, actually liked it. I remember when American brands tried to compete with Japanese cars instead of making boomer bonermobiles. Doesn't anyone remember how SLOW muscle cars were?

Most muscle cars were considered "sporty" because they could be made kinda fast in a straight line by bolting on parts. But from the factory, they performed like shiat. They caught the imagination of boomers because they looked fast and sounded fast, and imports were verboten back in the day, so we had nothing to compare them to. We look back on them as classics because we don't remember actually driving them. They got 13mpg and for that you got mostly sound and sheet metal.

I've driven old Chargers, Furies, etc, and I am surprised anyone thought of them as performance cars.


We're all of these old Mopars You drove slant sixes?  With simple tweaks, a LOT of muscle cars from BITD ran 12's, others even quicker.  I heard that the Omni GLH's from the 1980's could supposedly hit 11's if driven right.  And I can't even imagine what Shelby's supercharged Cobras could do.  There were only two of those, and one went to Bill Cosby who promptly scared the shiat out of himself and got rid of it.
 
2014-01-06 01:20:36 PM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: mccallcl: RockofAges: Plymouth Acclaim

Used to drive one of those, actually liked it. I remember when American brands tried to compete with Japanese cars instead of making boomer bonermobiles. Doesn't anyone remember how SLOW muscle cars were?

Most muscle cars were considered "sporty" because they could be made kinda fast in a straight line by bolting on parts. But from the factory, they performed like shiat. They caught the imagination of boomers because they looked fast and sounded fast, and imports were verboten back in the day, so we had nothing to compare them to. We look back on them as classics because we don't remember actually driving them. They got 13mpg and for that you got mostly sound and sheet metal.

I've driven old Chargers, Furies, etc, and I am surprised anyone thought of them as performance cars.

We're all of these old Mopars You drove slant sixes?  With simple tweaks, a LOT of muscle cars from BITD ran 12's, others even quicker.  I heard that the Omni GLH's from the 1980's could supposedly hit 11's if driven right.  And I can't even imagine what Shelby's supercharged Cobras could do.  There were only two of those, and one went to Bill Cosby who promptly scared the shiat out of himself and got rid of it.


The Fury was a monster, no idea what motor was in it, but revving it up twisted the hood. Of course, once you actually drove it, it was a dog because it weighed a million pounds and the engine itself was heavy.

"Simple tweaks" do not make for a good car from the factory. The memory of those muscle cars comes from the look, not their actual performance, which was miserable. And I'm talking straight-line accelleration, which was supposed to be their strong suit. Forget turning or stopping.

A couple exceptions of factory-tuned or aftermarket performance muscle cars don't prove the rule, but they serve the marketing purpose of linking those tired old tanks to the racey image we've come to accept.

400-something bhp moving 3600 lbs is not an amazing ratio, and that's about as good as it got from the factory. Import compacts are better performance cars, taken as a whole segment, than muscle cars ever were by that logic.
 
2014-01-06 01:30:56 PM  

mbillips: This text is now purple: mbillips: No, they don't. I watch Top Gear, and they test Corvettes every time a new one comes out. They always marvel at the power and track performance, but also talk about how technologically primitive, uncomfortable and cheaply made they are. There's a reason a Corvette costs two-thirds to half the price of a Porsche 911 with similar performance. It's not engineered or manufactured as well. You want to compete head-to-head with Audi-engineered Lamborghinis, you're going to have to charge a lot more than $60k. All the truly great American luxury and performance cars from the turn of the 20th century through the '50s were EXPENSIVE. A top-of-the-line 1950s Cadillac cost more than a contemporary Rolls Royce, and was a much better car.

The engineering on the Corvette is just fine. It just requires more tradeoffs to reach the price point, and what's sacrificed is NVH perks and materials quality. But then, dedicated race cars aren't comfortable, either.

The article is about how they're going to stop making Corvettes, because the market for half-price supercars just isn't there. I'm theorizing they could save the Corvette by making it a full-price supercar, and selling fewer of them. There hasn't been an American car that competed equally with European top-line luxury or performance cars since the '50s, which is too bad. We used to lead the world in car design and technology, and now we just lead on value for money. We could do both, in different market segments, but our car companies choose not to, with the exception of Tesla.


Look up the history of Duesenberg.

Then look up how long they survived. Pro-tip -- Rolls-Royce stopped making automobiles for a reason.
 
2014-01-06 01:36:25 PM  

mccallcl: Dr Jack Badofsky: mccallcl: RockofAges: Plymouth Acclaim

Used to drive one of those, actually liked it. I remember when American brands tried to compete with Japanese cars instead of making boomer bonermobiles. Doesn't anyone remember how SLOW muscle cars were?

Most muscle cars were considered "sporty" because they could be made kinda fast in a straight line by bolting on parts. But from the factory, they performed like shiat. They caught the imagination of boomers because they looked fast and sounded fast, and imports were verboten back in the day, so we had nothing to compare them to. We look back on them as classics because we don't remember actually driving them. They got 13mpg and for that you got mostly sound and sheet metal.

I've driven old Chargers, Furies, etc, and I am surprised anyone thought of them as performance cars.

We're all of these old Mopars You drove slant sixes?  With simple tweaks, a LOT of muscle cars from BITD ran 12's, others even quicker.  I heard that the Omni GLH's from the 1980's could supposedly hit 11's if driven right.  And I can't even imagine what Shelby's supercharged Cobras could do.  There were only two of those, and one went to Bill Cosby who promptly scared the shiat out of himself and got rid of it.

The Fury was a monster, no idea what motor was in it, but revving it up twisted the hood. Of course, once you actually drove it, it was a dog because it weighed a million pounds and the engine itself was heavy.

"Simple tweaks" do not make for a good car from the factory. The memory of those muscle cars comes from the look, not their actual performance, which was miserable. And I'm talking straight-line accelleration, which was supposed to be their strong suit. Forget turning or stopping.

A couple exceptions of factory-tuned or aftermarket performance muscle cars don't prove the rule, but they serve the marketing purpose of linking those tired old tanks to the racey image we've come to accept.

400-something bhp moving 3600 ...


Advertised horsepower ratings were notoriously conservative on cars back then for insurance reasons.  A 427 tri-power Vette was advertised at 435hp, but everybody knew it was more like 500.  Same for CobraJets, Hemi's, LS6 Chevelles, etc.,  not to mention the gearing in the drivetrain (tranny, rear end, etc.).  Simple tuning tricks included advancing timing, disconnecting the exhaust, and removing unnecessary weight.  It was very easy to get a Camaro, Galaxy, Barracuda, etc. into the 12's, even faster by spending just a few bucks, and you're into the 11's.  I suspect you are not really very familiar with musclecars, and what they really are capable of doing with minimal investment.  Drag racing was so big back then that the Big Three had their own internal engineers covertly "testing" their cars on Woodward Ave on weekends against other cars via street races, along with track teams like the Ramchargers.
 
2014-01-06 01:42:03 PM  

doenis: Fish in a Barrel: I'm looking to get a camera system like this in my car to record autocross runs, but they're really expensive.  I could just cobble something together with the Torque app and a separate camera, but I can't find a reference for my car's extended PIDs, and I really want some of that extended data.

Torquerecorder, a plugin for Torque, does this perfectly. I think it is even developed by the same dev.


I had nothing but bad luck with that.  For some reason it will only record the video at about 10FPS, which looks terrible.  I think it's syncing the video frames the OBDII update rate.  And the java app to export the video is an awful, buggy mess.
 
2014-01-06 01:56:13 PM  
Also comes with this...
www.100open.com
 
2014-01-06 02:10:03 PM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: I suspect you are not really very familiar with musclecars


Aside from owning a couple, no I'm not. I never tuned any domestic cars or modified them. I just remember driving them around and they were slow and ponderous. The brakes were shiat, the suspension was shiat and they were huge. They were cool, though.

Your defense is that a smattering of cars ran fast in their highest-power factory configurations, and that some muscle cars could be modified cheaply to go fast-ish. But the vast majority of muscle cars sold were slow. Like 90-something% of them. By the time the muscle car era was over, there were plenty of cars styled that way that were slower than dirt and sold like hotcakes.

I'm not saying the muscle car era was all in your imagination, but the memory people have of these things is not in keeping with the reality of driving them for most people that owned one. They looked cool and they sounded cool, but the value was that they could be modified cheaply and that the modifications didn't make them much less reliable. That title has been handed down to tuner import compacts, the spiritual successor to the muscle car. When I see a muscle car reboot, I don't associate it with its image, I associate it with the driving experience, which sucked for the vast majority of owners.

The shiatty, underpowered versions of all the muscle cars, which made up the majority of inventory, looked the same as their performance counterparts, which sold those cars the same way the memory of their performance counterparts are selling them today.
 
2014-01-06 02:13:46 PM  

Fano: slotz: Fano: why SHOULDNT all cars have a hud? i''d like to never look at the dashboard.

The reason GM tossed the HUD was because, in their testing, they found that drivers were actually more distracted having the HUD than they were having to look down at the instrument panel to check speed, etc.
The HUD pulled too much attention and the drivers, somehow, because they were facing the windshield, believed they were watching the road when they were actually staring at the HUD elements.

Interesting. I wonder if it could be a training/experience issue. Surely a generation raised on games would be more used to having a screen overlay- I'm looking forward to getting that new garmin that projects onto the screen. The device shown in the article looks a bit distracting with all the colors though. All I really need is speedometer and gas gauge, maybe the radio station in the corner.

[cdn-www.airliners.net image 850x575]
Pilots obviously have been trained in this, but then, I guess they are the best of the best, and used to traveling in the... DANGER ZONE


Pilots don't really need to "watch the road" the same way drivers do and the HUD adds detail to what otherwise is normally nothing but clouds / ocean / etc. and depend more on their navigation and other instruments than what they can actually see. They don't have to worry so much about jackasses pulling out in front of them or kids chasing a ball across their flight path.
 
2014-01-06 02:47:56 PM  
Which way to the next mission objective? Follow the arrow!
 
2014-01-06 03:04:47 PM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: A 427 tri-power Vette was advertised at 435hp


I'd like to add I am in no way shiatting on the 'Vette. Despite it never being my style of ride, it has always been the best price/performance value in the world and a triumph of American car-building. Pity that I can't get past the styling and associated ownership image (every owner I've ever met wore a lot of male jewelry).
 
2014-01-06 05:50:48 PM  

mccallcl: Dr Jack Badofsky: I suspect you are not really very familiar with musclecars

Aside from owning a couple, no I'm not. I never tuned any domestic cars or modified them. I just remember driving them around and they were slow and ponderous. The brakes were shiat, the suspension was shiat and they were huge. They were cool, though.

Your defense is that a smattering of cars ran fast in their highest-power factory configurations, and that some muscle cars could be modified cheaply to go fast-ish. But the vast majority of muscle cars sold were slow. Like 90-something% of them. By the time the muscle car era was over, there were plenty of cars styled that way that were slower than dirt and sold like hotcakes.

I'm not saying the muscle car era was all in your imagination, but the memory people have of these things is not in keeping with the reality of driving them for most people that owned one. They looked cool and they sounded cool, but the value was that they could be modified cheaply and that the modifications didn't make them much less reliable. That title has been handed down to tuner import compacts, the spiritual successor to the muscle car. When I see a muscle car reboot, I don't associate it with its image, I associate it with the driving experience, which sucked for the vast majority of owners.

The shiatty, underpowered versions of all the muscle cars, which made up the majority of inventory, looked the same as their performance counterparts, which sold those cars the same way the memory of their performance counterparts are selling them today.


True that the cars didn't have good brakes or suspension compared to today, but that's just the way technology was back then, plus then, as now, money was tight for budgets.  Did they need the biggest engine to go quick?  No.  One example would be a '68 Z28 did the quarter in 13.77 @ 107 moh, sopposedly on stock tires (that engine was 302 c.i.d.).  Typically the biggest engines supplied the most power, but that was the easiest way to make power back then.  Fuel injection was just becoming usable in production cars, but that was mechanical, not electronic like we have now.  Also, carburetors make more power than a similarly set up EFI car.

I'm not sure I agree on the imports being the new frontier for cheap to make to fast.  You can tinker with boost and fuel mapping, but that will only get you so far.  Larger turbines cost money (the WRX STi and the Evo, along with the GTR are the big hitters there), and there really is no making a Civic much faster without lots of $$,  just annoyingly louder.  A loud Civic is nowhere near as pleasing sounding as a modded GSXR-750 if you ask me.  They were a fad, and do retain some popularity, but the main industry seems to be the mustangs and camaros.  Friends of mine work at a very popular aftermarket manufacturer, and they don't make any parts for imports at all.  Just Ford, Chevy, Mopar, cars and trucks.  I'm not slamming mports, but it takes a lot to make them significantly faster.  You could argue the same for modern muscle cars, but they are ate very high horsepower rating already.  Off the showroom floor, a Shelby Mustang is rated at 662hp.  The base GT is 410 or so.  It's too bad two-stroke technology hasn't evolved for cars, because they provide the biggest bang-per-buck than any other motor.  Emissions were a problem, but I understand Bombardier has an insanely clean-running two-stroke motor that they make for sleds.  Lastly, the Vettes, yeah I hear you on the midlife crisis guys buying them, but they are very fun to drive...unless youre one of those two dudes in the silver Vettes street racing at the stoplight, and eventually take each other out a hundred yards or so down the street.
 
2014-01-06 05:54:19 PM  

mccallcl: Dr Jack Badofsky: I suspect you are not really very familiar with musclecars

Aside from owning a couple, no I'm not. I never tuned any domestic cars or modified them. I just remember driving them around and they were slow and ponderous. The brakes were shiat, the suspension was shiat and they were huge. They were cool, though.


If you compare them against other cars at the time, they were much better.  Compared stock-for-stock to modern cars, they're not real impressive.  Mid-range minivans can smoke a lot of stock muscle cars at the drag strip and in a road course.  Which, BTW, is hilarious to watch in person...

Luckily for people who prefer muscle car styling but sometimes need to do silly things like turning or stopping or "not buying gas every day," there's a whole industry devoted to putting modern technology into muscle cars.  You can often just bolt-on massive power brakes, incredible suspensions (up to and including IRS systems), and insanely powerful / efficient computer-controlled engines and transmissions with emissions compliance and full factory warranties.  If you can weld, too, pretty much anything's possible.  The cost savings aren't as huge as one would hope, but you're only paying for the things you want and nothing more; options "packages" on new cars are barely a step up from the cable company charging me for 9 f'in Lifetime channels and Univision just because I want the History channel.  Ok, Univision is ok...

In any event, I *like* tinkering with mechanical things and I drive a lot.  Some people prefer to buy stuff already done, and I probably don't enjoy their hobbies.  That's fine.
 
2014-01-06 06:42:33 PM  
Dr Jack Badofsky: It's too bad two-stroke technology hasn't evolved for cars, because they provide the biggest bang-per-buck than any other motor.  Emissions were a problem, but I understand Bombardier has an insanely clean-running two-stroke motor that they make for sleds.

Not everybody likes doing a top-end rebuild every month to keep their vehicle on the road. Nor does your average person like to travel with a full weather station, altimeter, barometer, and a crate of spark plugs to keep their vehicle making good power.

And the explosive narrowness of a two-stroke powerband puts it in 'experts only' category unless you nerf the living hell out of it.  The big two stroke motorcycles of the 70's were not called 'Widowmakers' because it sounded cute.

/raced two strokes
//You've not experienced a highside properly till you've had a highly tuned two-stroke seize on you mid-corner and turn into a catapult.
 
2014-01-06 06:49:48 PM  

This text is now purple: Look up the history of Duesenberg.

Then look up how long they survived. Pro-tip -- Rolls-Royce stopped making automobiles for a reason.


Rolls-Royce still makes cars.

/they're a subsidiary of BMW now, but that's not important
 
2014-01-06 07:05:22 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Your penis-extending vehicles don't actually extend your penises, so the national average penis size would stay the same.


I think the point was that the idiots with small penises would kill themselves in these things.
 
2014-01-06 07:13:09 PM  

moike: Dr Jack Badofsky: It's too bad two-stroke technology hasn't evolved for cars, because they provide the biggest bang-per-buck than any other motor.  Emissions were a problem, but I understand Bombardier has an insanely clean-running two-stroke motor that they make for sleds.

Not everybody likes doing a top-end rebuild every month to keep their vehicle on the road. Nor does your average person like to travel with a full weather station, altimeter, barometer, and a crate of spark plugs to keep their vehicle making good power.

And the explosive narrowness of a two-stroke powerband puts it in 'experts only' category unless you nerf the living hell out of it.  The big two stroke motorcycles of the 70's were not called 'Widowmakers' because it sounded cute.

/raced two strokes
//You've not experienced a highside properly till you've had a highly tuned two-stroke seize on you mid-corner and turn into a catapult.


True, early SAABs were a maintenance nightmare and tricky to drive, but with the decades of refinement of the two-stroke motor that have happens, they are remarkably reliable.  I've had 2-stroke motorcycles my whole life, and it will take Yamaha not making them anymore to get me to move to 4-strokes (offload).  They are more powerful, much simpler, and I believe with development, they could be unbelievable Ina a car.  They would help most in cars like the Fiat 500 or Smart Fortwo.

Ad, we're you using castor oil when it seized?  Running a bit lean?
 
2014-01-06 08:38:31 PM  
What he said about two strokes only making power in a very narrow range of the powerband. I race motocross and everything is four stroke now. It's a new breed of four strokes (my Yamaha has five valves, a 13.5:1 compression ratio and is electronically limited to 14,000 rpm) and they are significantly better than their older two-stoke counterparts. Some guys still go fast on the smokers but they're experts and they have to work twice as hard for similar lap times. You wouldn't want a scaled-up engine like my bike has in your car though, the maintenance would be insane.

Oh and my 2000 Z28 Camaro is a twelve-second car bone stock. You'd have to spend ridiculous amounts of money getting an import to go that fast and it'd try to blow up on you constantly. Thanks to large displacement and modern fuel injection I get that kind of speed with great drivability, reliability and over twenty mpg.
 
2014-01-06 09:33:57 PM  

ChadM89: What he said about two strokes only making power in a very narrow range of the powerband. I race motocross and everything is four stroke now. It's a new breed of four strokes (my Yamaha has five valves, a 13.5:1 compression ratio and is electronically limited to 14,000 rpm) and they are significantly better than their older two-stoke counterparts. Some guys still go fast on the smokers but they're experts and they have to work twice as hard for similar lap times. You wouldn't want a scaled-up engine like my bike has in your car though, the maintenance would be insane.

Oh and my 2000 Z28 Camaro is a twelve-second car bone stock. You'd have to spend ridiculous amounts of money getting an import to go that fast and it'd try to blow up on you constantly. Thanks to large displacement and modern fuel injection I get that kind of speed with great drivability, reliability and over twenty mpg.


I enjoy the peakiness of the two strokes.  My YZ250 is a hoot to ride, and does not have the gyro effect that the 4strokes do.  The newer bikes are faster/more powerful yes, but put similar displacement bikes together and it's no comparison.  Plus, to rebuild a 4stroke engine is a TON of cash that I don't have.  Someday, maybe.  Someday.
 
2014-01-06 10:54:28 PM  
ChadM89:
Oh and my 2000 Z28 Camaro is a twelve-second car bone stock. You'd have to spend ridiculous amounts of money getting an import to go that fast and it'd try to blow up on you constantly. Thanks to large displacement and modern fuel injection I get that kind of speed with great drivability, reliability and over twenty mpg.

I'd have thought more like mid-13s for a completely stock 2000 model year Z28.  12s would be more like C6 corvette, 911 turbo or M5 territory.  I have an E46 M3, which I expect would be in the same ballpark as the Z28, and mine is definitely not a 12 second car.  Not trying to rip on your ride, though - I've never owned one of those generation Camaros, but I have driven them a couple times and they're definitely a fun car.
 
2014-01-06 11:24:18 PM  

DerficusRex: ChadM89:
Oh and my 2000 Z28 Camaro is a twelve-second car bone stock. You'd have to spend ridiculous amounts of money getting an import to go that fast and it'd try to blow up on you constantly. Thanks to large displacement and modern fuel injection I get that kind of speed with great drivability, reliability and over twenty mpg.

I'd have thought more like mid-13s for a completely stock 2000 model year Z28.  12s would be more like C6 corvette, 911 turbo or M5 territory.  I have an E46 M3, which I expect would be in the same ballpark as the Z28, and mine is definitely not a 12 second car.  Not trying to rip on your ride, though - I've never owned one of those generation Camaros, but I have driven them a couple times and they're definitely a fun car.


It's a fair point. Mid-to-low 13s all day. But they'll get into the high 12s with a good driver, a good air filter and some good tires. I still consider that stock.

Even if we were talking low 13s, that's still mighty fast. And it does it while having power windows, locks, a/c, etc. For that to come in stock form with all of the drivability and reliability that entails is impressive. When people claim American cars suck it only betrays that they don't know what they're talking about. And that's a fourteen year old car (albeit mine only has 40,000 on it).
 
2014-01-07 12:07:44 AM  
Dr Jack Badofsky:
Ad, we're you using castor oil when it seized?  Running a bit lean?

Amazingly lean and jetted right to the edge of insanity to eek out every last drop of horsepower.  I wasn't kidding about the weather station, barometer, log books, boxes and boxes of jets, plug chops, crates of spare spark plugs...

moike.net

1991 MC21SP Full HRC kit and electronics, Red Baron Racing built and tuned engine, MagTek wheels, LE suspension, HRC pipes.  Built to do nothing but hurl my saucer-eyed screaming ass around a race track at speeds and lean angles my body was never designed to go.

Twitchy as hell, tried to kill me in every single corner, pitched me off more than once, and when the power hit the rear end would attempt to pass the front end regardless of lean.  Couple that with the blind-corner no-run-off rollercoaster that was the original Sears Point Raceway and it's amazing I'm still alive and with enough functional limbs to type this.

70+ grenade-like two-stroke horsepower in a sub-300 pound bike with the wheelbase of a roller skate is a formula for death or soiled leathers, sometimes both.
 
2014-01-07 01:33:01 AM  

skinink: I wish a HUD could be overlaid on part of the windshield. That would be pretty nice and it could be restricted to maybe three or four elements showing, tops. Speed, gas, alerts. Maybe the fourth element could be navigation queues, like arrows indicating when to turn, distance info from goal.


That's largely how my last two Grand Prix (1997 and 2002) and my current Audi A6 are.   Speed and some basic alerts.  The GP included "low on gas" and turn signals as I recall, but it was too old to have built-in nav. The Audi doesn't include either low-gas or turn signals, but adds following-distance alerts, pedestrian detection alerts, and some adaptive cruise info.  I haven't tested nav in the A6 yet, since I usually know where I'm going when I drive it.

It's pretty easy to ignore most of the time, but dang useful for checking your speed or adjusting the cruise.

/ymmv.
//yeah, I bought a fancy audi after going cheap on cars the last 10 years and saving up
///will probably go cheap on the next one
 
2014-01-07 09:54:46 AM  

moike: Dr Jack Badofsky:
Ad, we're you using castor oil when it seized?  Running a bit lean?

Amazingly lean and jetted right to the edge of insanity to eek out every last drop of horsepower.  I wasn't kidding about the weather station, barometer, log books, boxes and boxes of jets, plug chops, crates of spare spark plugs...

[moike.net image 595x480]

1991 MC21SP Full HRC kit and electronics, Red Baron Racing built and tuned engine, MagTek wheels, LE suspension, HRC pipes.  Built to do nothing but hurl my saucer-eyed screaming ass around a race track at speeds and lean angles my body was never designed to go.

Twitchy as hell, tried to kill me in every single corner, pitched me off more than once, and when the power hit the rear end would attempt to pass the front end regardless of lean.  Couple that with the blind-corner no-run-off rollercoaster that was the original Sears Point Raceway and it's amazing I'm still alive and with enough functional limbs to type this.

70+ grenade-like two-stroke horsepower in a sub-300 pound bike with the wheelbase of a roller skate is a formula for death or soiled leathers, sometimes both.


Fark needs different buttons (like 'awesome' and/or 'insane') for when Moike shows up.
'funny' and 'smart' don't seem like valid options.
 
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