Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Washington Post)   The Democratic paradise of Washington, DC has some of the most restrictive handgun laws in the nation, which means that the 1400 armed robberies that took place there last year are, like, totally a figment of your imagination   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 443
    More: Obvious, robbery, handguns, imaginations  
•       •       •

860 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jan 2014 at 12:20 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



443 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-01-05 01:04:11 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Why have any laws at all?



IIRC, aren't you the guy who used to own an AR-15, and now has the chutzpah to tell other people that they should not be allowed to own one?
 
2014-01-05 01:04:22 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: doglover: Chicago has some of the strongest gun laws now and historically. They've been a war zone more than once and will be again.

Guns in Chicago primarily come from out of county/state. And in 2013 Chicago had the fewest murders since 1965.


So a mere 5 years after citizens were allowed to own handguns, murders dropped?
 
2014-01-05 01:05:02 PM  
never once saw a pistol rob someone.


but the Owners would enjoy disarming this Nation so they can ram that cock even further up the bottom 90%'s ass.  they love their Freedom, but only for themselves.  everyone else should be under their control.  can't do that if they're armed to the teeth.
 
2014-01-05 01:05:55 PM  

clambam: This besides the fact that strict checkpoints at all access points to and from the city prevent anyone from bringing firearms in, from Virginia (unrestricted ownership with the exception of machine guns--hey, I have to register my machine gun in Virginia? You bastards!) or from any of the other gun-besotted neo-confederacies of the Southeast.  Most guns used in crime have either been stolen (around 15%) or transferred between individuals after the original purchase (i.e., picked up no questions asked at the local gun fair). Given that these guns are almost inevitably disposed of as too incriminating, if guns were outlawed for a short while only outlaws would have guns. And then no one would have guns.

I wish there were a sensible way to discuss this situation.


No you don't.
 
2014-01-05 01:06:02 PM  

Sidecrab: Look at DC's demographics, therein lies the answer.


"About 17% of D.C. residents were age 18 or younger in 2010; lower than the U.S. average of 24%. However, at 34 years old, the District had the lowest median age compared to the 50 states."

Yep, those young'uns tend to be a bit more ready to sling lead than older folks. I can totally see where you're coming from.

/that is what you meant by "demographics", right?
 
2014-01-05 01:06:05 PM  

AngryDragon: Sleeping Monkey: More gun laws won't stop gun violence but more abortion laws will stop abortion, in rightwing bizarroland.

And just the opposite in leftwing bizarroland


I don't think gun regulation proponents believe that a few regulations will end gun violence and crime. But you're already aware of that
 
2014-01-05 01:07:42 PM  

Sidecrab: Look at DC's demographics, therein lies the answer.



Timothy McVeigh loves you!  keep up the good Propaganda.   do it for the Motherland.
 
2014-01-05 01:07:58 PM  

Frank N Stein: So a mere 5 years after citizens were allowed to own handguns, murders dropped?


Lost on this one.
 
2014-01-05 01:08:20 PM  
Liberal, but NRA member.

Still not going to worry my pretty little head about the gun laws in DC.  It's only one city, it is the nation's capital with attendant security demands, and it's not like we're holding the population captive or anything.
 
2014-01-05 01:09:16 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Want the real answer to gun violence? Changing how Americans think. This "I am a man and I have to prove my mainliness and not appear weak and not getting disrespected" shiat is the absolute root of violence in the US. Solve that and you solve the real issue.

So in conclusion, gun control is certainly a bit of a misdirection in terms of result, and much of it is just legislative masturbation to respond to some outrage, but applied in the right area, with the right law-enforcement framework, will likely help. Just don't expect it to be the solution.

I don't own a gun. I like shooting guns. I don't really have skin in this game one way or the other, so I shrug more than anything.


Why did the U.S. attack Iraq again?
 
2014-01-05 01:10:36 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Guns are not the cause of crime, but access to guns allows criminals to do more damage.




i.dailymail.co.uk

Let's get rid of them all.

I wouldn't mind ruling over all the tiny people without guns.
 
2014-01-05 01:11:16 PM  

m00: cameroncrazy1984: NYC has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, and their crime rate has been going down for a long time.

They also have stop-and-frisk. Which is a whole different conversation. I was in New York for the holidays, and there was NO WHERE on the island that felt unsafe. I guess totalitarianism really can guarantee safety -- there was a cop on every corner empowered to frisk you (I made a game of "how many seconds I can go without seeing a cop"), and "if you see something, say something" posters everywhere.

The Federal Government fails because it takes away our freedoms and makes us less safe. At least in New York you get safety in exchange. So I wouldn't chalk up lowering crime rate in NYC to the gun laws alone... it's a total commitment to crime prevention at the expense of all other sensibilities.


In fairness, NYC is a special case, even among cities.  Ten of the top eleven most densely populated regions in the US are in the NY metro area.  No other city even comes close.
 
2014-01-05 01:11:33 PM  

The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: Why have any laws at all?


IIRC, aren't you the guy who used to own an AR-15, and now has the chutzpah to tell other people that they should not be allowed to own one?


It's ex-smoker logic being used in the troll.
 
2014-01-05 01:19:23 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: Why have any laws at all?


IIRC, aren't you the guy who used to own an AR-15, and now has the chutzpah to tell other people that they should not be allowed to own one?

It's ex-smoker logic being used in the troll.


Uh, the troll would be the gun logic that those places with restrictive gun laws have crime therefore there is no reason for gun laws. If you think that response about not having any laws at all makes no sense, it's just the extension of what subby is implying the headline
 
2014-01-05 01:19:28 PM  

Sidecrab: Look at DC's demographics, therein lies the answer.


I know, right? Any time you put that many politicians, bureaucrats, staffers, and lobbyists together you get crime!

Who's idea was that, anyhow, to put all of those politicians together in one place?
 
2014-01-05 01:20:30 PM  
I can say that the large part of West Virginia's firearm death rate is less street crime and more Bubba thought Festus was a deer.
/or a rabbit
//or a squirrel
///or the gun discharged while falling out of a tree
////etc etc etc
 
2014-01-05 01:23:14 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: StoPPeRmobile: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: Why have any laws at all?


IIRC, aren't you the guy who used to own an AR-15, and now has the chutzpah to tell other people that they should not be allowed to own one?

It's ex-smoker logic being used in the troll.

Uh, the troll would be the gun logic that those places with restrictive gun laws have crime therefore there is no reason for gun laws. If you think that response about not having any laws at all makes no sense, it's just the extension of what subby is implying the headline


I don't think anyone here wants to abolish all gun laws, so you can give up that straw man. It's just the extent of gun laws, the effectiveness of certain gun laws, and if one feels said gun certain gun laws are overly restrictive that is being debated. For instance, I don't think you'll find anyone here who is in favor getting rid of NICS checks.
 
2014-01-05 01:25:08 PM  
Virginia makes money off unrestricted gun sales, D.C. deals with the consequences, and Jefferson Davis is laughing in his grave.
 
2014-01-05 01:25:59 PM  

Linux_Yes: never once saw a pistol rob someone.


but the Owners would enjoy disarming this Nation so they can ram that cock even further up the bottom 90%'s ass.  they love their Freedom, but only for themselves.  everyone else should be under their control.  can't do that if they're armed to the teeth.


I don't know what you're talking about. They're doing a pretty good job of taking advantage of the working poor right now with poverty rates correlating to gun ownership rates.

In other words, the places with the most guns are the places where the poor are being taken advantage of the most. The places with fewer guns tend to have less poverty and slightly more income equality, not that that means a whole lot in the US.
 
2014-01-05 01:27:29 PM  
Utah had a ban on gay marriage, and yet it turns out that state was still overflowing with fabulous. What ya gonna do?
 
2014-01-05 01:29:30 PM  

Frank N Stein: Peter von Nostrand: StoPPeRmobile: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: Why have any laws at all?


IIRC, aren't you the guy who used to own an AR-15, and now has the chutzpah to tell other people that they should not be allowed to own one?

It's ex-smoker logic being used in the troll.

Uh, the troll would be the gun logic that those places with restrictive gun laws have crime therefore there is no reason for gun laws. If you think that response about not having any laws at all makes no sense, it's just the extension of what subby is implying the headline

I don't think anyone here wants to abolish all gun laws, so you can give up that straw man. It's just the extent of gun laws, the effectiveness of certain gun laws, and if one feels said gun certain gun laws are overly restrictive that is being debated. For instance, I don't think you'll find anyone here who is in favor getting rid of NICS checks.


Depends. How much do we pay for that?
 
2014-01-05 01:30:25 PM  

Frank N Stein: I don't think anyone here wants to abolish all gun laws, so you can give up that straw man. It's just the extent of gun laws, the effectiveness of certain gun laws, and if one feels said gun certain gun laws are overly restrictive that is being debated.


But the argument that the 2nd Amendment folks apply to proposed laws could be applied to all gun laws and indeed laws in general: "Well, criminals will always get a hold of guns somehow, so expanding background checks won't really do anything and we shouldn't do it."  Not to mention that debating the restrictiveness of gun laws in the US is like debating the speed of glacier flows in the Sahara.
 
2014-01-05 01:31:36 PM  
Because the one thing we truly need in an expanding police state is more gun control.

Start with the police. They have armored vehicles, automatic weapons and farking drones.
 
2014-01-05 01:31:47 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: So, therefore, if there were no gun laws, there would be no crime?

/it's too early for this bullsh*t


Yeah, I know. False dichotomy fallacies piss me off too.
 
2014-01-05 01:33:53 PM  
My opinion on guns is very similar to my opinion on abortion. I'm in favor of it being legal, but I think we need to do more in our society to discourage both.

If we lower poverty, we lower crime. If we lower crime, not only will there be fewer criminals using guns, there will also be fewer people buying guns to protect themselves against criminals. I'm not in favor of abolishing the 2nd Amendment, but I am in favor of making it as much of a relic of an antiquated past as the 3rd.
 
2014-01-05 01:34:48 PM  

socoloco: Because the one thing we truly need in an expanding police state is more gun control.


Were our 300 million guns being used to actually wage literal class warfare, you'd have a point.
 
2014-01-05 01:37:03 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: NewportBarGuy: Why have any laws at all?

Well, if everyone's packing we don't need any, obviously

/think of the money we can save on police alone



Yes, guns don't kill people, people kill people - but on the other hands arming everyone will somehow result in less gun deaths/incidents.

And everyone knows that armed amateur cop wannabes *cough* Zimmerman *cough* are waaaay better at stopping crime than trained professional police officers.

Now lets wait for someone to point to abusive police as a reason to have armed citizens everywhere rather than cops - as though the answer to police abuse is to abolish the police (rather than, you know, common sense things like training, regulation, and effective oversight).

It's funny how conservatives so often rely on insanely broad propositions like "government is incompetent or tyrannical, police are evil" to justify bad ideas. Like libertarians who argue "Congress is corrupt and gives too many regulatory handouts/tax breaks to big business. Therefore, the solution is to eliminate all regulations and tax benefits for everyone."  That's some deep thinking there.
 
2014-01-05 01:37:16 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: NYC has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, and their crime rate has been going down for a long time.


Along with the country as a whole, and due at least in part to some innovative enforcement strategies. Now, however, Mayor De Blasio has changed the equation with his altering of the "stop and frisk" policies of the NYPD, so New York City is about to become the petri dish in an experiment of what happens when you take fewer pro-active steps to enforce your laws, gun and otherwise.
 
2014-01-05 01:38:45 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Isolated gun control laws will never be as effective as nationwide ones.


Screw that.

My Monroebots with HDBBS technology will stop more crime than strict gun laws.
 
2014-01-05 01:40:00 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: AngryDragon: Sleeping Monkey: More gun laws won't stop gun violence but more abortion laws will stop abortion, in rightwing bizarroland.

And just the opposite in leftwing bizarroland

I don't think gun regulation proponents believe that a few regulations will end gun violence and crime. But you're already aware of that


Then what's the point?
 
2014-01-05 01:40:23 PM  

The Name: Frank N Stein: I don't think anyone here wants to abolish all gun laws, so you can give up that straw man. It's just the extent of gun laws, the effectiveness of certain gun laws, and if one feels said gun certain gun laws are overly restrictive that is being debated.

But the argument that the 2nd Amendment folks apply to proposed laws could be applied to all gun laws and indeed laws in general: "Well, criminals will always get a hold of guns somehow, so expanding background checks won't really do anything and we shouldn't do it."  Not to mention that debating the restrictiveness of gun laws in the US is like debating the speed of glacier flows in the Sahara.


Instead of having your head in the clouds and arguing from a philosophical/deconstructionist standpoint, you'd be better served to have your boots in the mud and debate what's actually being discussed, which is handgun laws. Of course you could zoom out and say argue "well then why have laws at all, why does anything actually matter?"  But that won't serve the debate at all, and really just becomes an exercise in bullshiat.

Also, your implication that the US doesn't have gun laws is patently false. I don't see what you have to gain by saying such a lie.
 
2014-01-05 01:41:28 PM  

Chummer45: It's funny how conservatives so often rely on insanely broad propositions like "government is incompetent or tyrannical, police are evil" to justify bad ideas. Like libertarians who argue "Congress is corrupt and gives too many regulatory handouts/tax breaks to big business. Therefore, the solution is to eliminate all regulations and tax benefits for everyone." That's some deep thinking there.


Yup.  And in the process they miss the whole premise of democracy: that the people should be able to keep an eye on these things and make changes as needed.  It's not a matter of implementing one or another ideology.  It's a matter of just paying some farking attention and approaching problems in a practical way.  But that's too much to ask of Americans.
 
2014-01-05 01:48:15 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: DC is also a small geographic area.  Expand DC's gun control laws to VA and MD and the gun crime rate in DC would drop further.


I often see Mexico's restrictive gun laws and out-of-proportion murder rates used as justification to abolish gun laws.  The same principle applies.  Find the location with the lax gun laws that is supplying the weapons and make the laws more restrictive there.

Pffft who am I kidding.  Congress wouldn't even vote to keep felons and crazy people from buying guns at gun shows and from private sellers.
 
2014-01-05 01:48:50 PM  
Oh, subby.  Maybe you could also imagine, like, the correlation between being a dumbass and being butthurt.
 
2014-01-05 01:51:09 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: doglover: Chicago has some of the strongest gun laws now and historically. They've been a war zone more than once and will be again.

Guns in Chicago primarily come from out of county/state. And in 2013 Chicago had the fewest murders since 1965.


The guns aren't coming from Chicago because there are *zero* gun stores inside the city limits. Even after a lost lawsuit in the 7th district court of appeals, they still aren't allowing them. Unsurprisingly there is a lawsuit pending to rectify that. Aside from that, the largest source of guns in Chicago is Cook County, and that's with half of the county unable to sell guns. The surrounding counties chip in quite a bit as well.
 
2014-01-05 01:52:37 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: vpb: It's really interesting to compare the firearms death rate for different states.  DC is right at the top, but it's interesting to see how the states rank.

The gun loving states are right at the top.

That's why you only hear about cities like Chicago. Actually pretty much only Chicago.


Because a single city is always representative of the entire state?  So say the gun nutz
 
2014-01-05 01:53:59 PM  

The Name: And in the process they miss the whole premise of democracy: that the people should be able to keep an eye on these things and make changes as needed.


That's not the premise of democracy. The premise of democracy is that everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, gets a say.

What you're saying is merely the premise of amendments. Some governments had no system in place to amend their laws. They've all failed spectacularly or invented one along the way; often both.

America is a representative republic. Our premise is that everyone* should get a say at some level, but that certain people* should get the real say and everyone* else should only get to pick those people.

(*white man with property over 21 years old)
 
2014-01-05 01:54:25 PM  

Superjew: If getting rid of the weapons doesn't solve the problem, maybe we should consider getting rid of the people who use them instead.

/just sayin'


We already have more people in prison that China and Russia combined.  The incarceration cubbard is bare $ wise.
 
2014-01-05 01:54:59 PM  
Forgot this:

i25.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-05 01:56:50 PM  

The Name: socoloco: Because the one thing we truly need in an expanding police state is more gun control.

Were our 300 million guns being used to actually wage literal class warfare, you'd have a point.



I would add that private ownership of guns somehow reigns in the police state?  Have the gun nuts ever considered that the proliferation of gun ownership just helps the police convince lawmakers and judges that they need military grade equipment and increased authority and discretion to protect themselves against all of the high powered deadly weaponry out there?

I don't know, I feel like maybe the answer to the police state is to elect politicians who actually support meaningful police reform?  I guess genuine policy reform isn't as sexy or shiny as guns.  So, the gun nuts will continue to vote for regressive politicians who maintain a favorable NRA rating by refusing to enact even the most reasonable gun regulations, but then enable and expand the police state by passing and supporting laws like the PATRIOT Act.

The political philosophy of gun nuts is just based on this idiotic red herring that private ownership of small arms somehow protects people from an abusive or repressive government.  Of course, theOnion has perfectly demonstrated how silly this political philosophy is:


http://www.theonion.com/articles/62yearold-with-gun-only-one-standin g- between-natio,30984/
 
2014-01-05 01:57:11 PM  

ox45tallboy: My opinion on guns is very similar to my opinion on abortion. I'm in favor of it being legal, but I think we need to do more in our society to discourage both.
If we lower poverty, we lower crime. If we lower crime, not only will there be fewer criminals using guns, there will also be fewer people buying guns to protect themselves against criminals. I'm not in favor of abolishing the 2nd Amendment, but I am in favor of making it as much of a relic of an antiquated past as the 3rd.


You can't change gun culture. But what you can do is create a new culture to supplant it. We've done that several times with other undesirable cultures. Every time, a new generation that did not share their values outlived them. Just as with racism, with smoking, with hardcore evangelism, and we're even seeing it right now with gay rights -- no one's minds are being changed, the stuffy old bigots are just dying off as the new generation moves into positions in power. It takes generations for these things to happen.

The same thing can happen with gun culture.
 
2014-01-05 01:57:25 PM  
Comparing DC to the whole of another state is a screwy way to look at things - try comparing it to the crime rates in the densest cities in each state and see if there is any correlation between gun laws and crime rates.
 
2014-01-05 02:05:51 PM  

Frank N Stein: Superjew: If getting rid of the weapons doesn't solve the problem, maybe we should consider getting rid of the people who use them instead.

/just sayin'

The police?


upload.wikimedia.org

fark 'em
 
2014-01-05 02:08:41 PM  

Target Builder: Comparing DC to the whole of another state is a screwy way to look at things - try comparing it to the crime rates in the densest cities in each state and see if there is any correlation between gun laws and crime rates.


Say that when they bring up "Chicago"

/Escambia County, FL (more churches per capita than any other place in the US) has a higher murder rate than Chicago, but you  won't see it mentioned by the gun nutz for two reasons:

1. It has lax gun laws

2. They often don't grasp the concept of murder "rate" as opposed to net numbers.
 
2014-01-05 02:09:46 PM  

Linux_Yes: never once saw a pistol rob someone.


but the Owners would enjoy disarming this Nation so they can ram that cock even further up the bottom 90%'s ass.  they love their Freedom, but only for themselves.  everyone else should be under their control.  can't do that if they're armed to the teeth.


The liberal leaders you always defend do not want your armed. Their bodyguards will remain armed though.
 
2014-01-05 02:09:50 PM  

The Name: Chummer45: It's funny how conservatives so often rely on insanely broad propositions like "government is incompetent or tyrannical, police are evil" to justify bad ideas. Like libertarians who argue "Congress is corrupt and gives too many regulatory handouts/tax breaks to big business. Therefore, the solution is to eliminate all regulations and tax benefits for everyone." That's some deep thinking there.

Yup.  And in the process they miss the whole premise of democracy: that the people should be able to keep an eye on these things and make changes as needed.  It's not a matter of implementing one or another ideology.  It's a matter of just paying some farking attention and approaching problems in a practical way.  But that's too much to ask of Americans.



Yup.  It's much easier to get distracted by superficial things than to genuinely try and understand the problem and develop a logical, common-sense solution.

Gun politics are like abortion politics - they are trumped up wedge issues created and used by the GOP to maintain and gain the support of single-issue voters.

It's completely ridiculous that a person who purports to be outraged by the police state and opposes an overreaching criminal justice/law enforcement system is so often willing to sacrifice those principles by voting for GOP politicians who have TERRIBLE records on those issues, all in the name of defending unregulated gun ownership.

It's like libertarians who constantly complain about the government being beholden to moneyed interests, but then voting for people like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz, who have built their entire political career by sucking up to big moneyed interests.  It's like libertarians conflate bad or corrupt government with government in general.  So they vote for these assholes who are bought and paid for by big moneyed interests like the Koch brothers.

It's always most amusing when libertarians - who constantly bemoan how corrupt our government is - then turn around and go through the mental gymnastics required to defend Citizens United as good policy - because freedom, or something.
 
m00
2014-01-05 02:09:55 PM  

doglover: America is a representative republic


As long as we're being pedantic, we're a constitutional republic.
 
2014-01-05 02:10:41 PM  

Ishkur: You can't change gun culture. But what you can do is create a new culture to supplant it. We've done that several times with other undesirable cultures. Every time, a new generation that did not share their values outlived them. Just as with racism, with smoking, with hardcore evangelism, and we're even seeing it right now with gay rights -- no one's minds are being changed, the stuffy old bigots are just dying off as the new generation moves into positions in power. It takes generations for these things to happen.

The same thing can happen with gun culture.


This.  Gun rights supporters would do well to create a culture of responsible gun ownership to counteract the current anti-social NRA-centered version that uses gun ownership as an implied threat of violence, and uses that implied threat as a source of political power.

Implying that you're willing to use your guns against a democratically elected government doesn't make you a patriot, it makes you a fascist and a tyrant.
 
2014-01-05 02:14:08 PM  

Nemo's Brother: The liberal leaders you always defend do not want your armed. Their bodyguards will remain armed though.


Arguing that you need guns because politicians' bodyguards are armed makes pretty much the opposite point you seem to think it does.
 
2014-01-05 02:15:08 PM  

Ishkur: ox45tallboy: My opinion on guns is very similar to my opinion on abortion. I'm in favor of it being legal, but I think we need to do more in our society to discourage both.
If we lower poverty, we lower crime. If we lower crime, not only will there be fewer criminals using guns, there will also be fewer people buying guns to protect themselves against criminals. I'm not in favor of abolishing the 2nd Amendment, but I am in favor of making it as much of a relic of an antiquated past as the 3rd.

You can't change gun culture. But what you can do is create a new culture to supplant it. We've done that several times with other undesirable cultures. Every time, a new generation that did not share their values outlived them. Just as with racism, with smoking, with hardcore evangelism, and we're even seeing it right now with gay rights -- no one's minds are being changed, the stuffy old bigots are just dying off as the new generation moves into positions in power. It takes generations for these things to happen.

The same thing can happen with gun culture.



Agree - I do believe (and hope) that we have reached the high water mark of the gun culture in this country, and we see a cultural shift on this as more and more people realize that the political positions promoted by the gun culture result in really bad public policy and consequences in the real world.  I hope the libertarianism fad goes away for the same reason.
 
Displayed 50 of 443 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report