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(Washington Post)   The Democratic paradise of Washington, DC has some of the most restrictive handgun laws in the nation, which means that the 1400 armed robberies that took place there last year are, like, totally a figment of your imagination   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 446
    More: Obvious, robbery, handguns, imaginations  
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860 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jan 2014 at 12:20 PM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



446 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-01-05 09:53:10 AM
Authorities in Worcester, Mass. credited gun control with increasing the number of knife crimes, which still count as armed.

/DNRTFA
 
2014-01-05 09:58:00 AM
NYC has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, and their crime rate has been going down for a long time.
 
2014-01-05 10:07:56 AM
So, therefore, if there were no gun laws, there would be no crime?

/it's too early for this bullsh*t
 
2014-01-05 10:16:40 AM
Gun nuts like to think of gun laws as the cause of gun violence rather than a symptom.
 
2014-01-05 10:19:50 AM
Why have any laws at all?
 
2014-01-05 10:24:05 AM

NewportBarGuy: Why have any laws at all?


Well, if everyone's packing we don't need any, obviously

/think of the money we can save on police alone
 
2014-01-05 10:24:24 AM
They also have some of the most restrictive laws against burglary, car theft, robbery and murder in the country, too, yet there are burglaries, car theft, robberies and murders all the time.

Get rid of all those laws, because they clearly don't work.
 
2014-01-05 10:37:01 AM
Yup, because, correlation equals causation. Fine homework there, Lou...
 
2014-01-05 10:47:30 AM
So we should, like, have the government hand out free guns to every citizen?

Wait... That's socialism...
 
2014-01-05 10:58:09 AM
submitter's logic:

murder is illegal

there are still murders

therefore murder should be legal.

QED
 
2014-01-05 11:03:21 AM
Gun laws don't generally correlate one way or another to crime rates.
 
2014-01-05 11:12:45 AM
The value I see in gun laws is sentence enhancement. You lump it in with related crime(s) the defendant committed to either elevate the other charges or otherwise get a tougher sentence. They're also there so you can do something if that's all you can get on them. Kind of like sending Capone to prison for tax evasion. It's pretty much the reason any criminal law is in place - not as a magical deterrent, but as an expression of what the people in a particular jurisdiction deem unacceptable and worthy of punishment if you get caught.
 
2014-01-05 11:13:19 AM
DC is also a small geographic area.  Expand DC's gun control laws to VA and MD and the gun crime rate in DC would drop further.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-05 11:39:37 AM
Well, it certainly means that the 2800 armed robberies that would have occurred are something we have to imagine.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-05 11:47:49 AM
It's really interesting to compare the firearms death rate for different states.  DC is right at the top, but it's interesting to see how the states rank.

The gun loving states are right at the top.
 
2014-01-05 11:54:26 AM

vpb: It's really interesting to compare the firearms death rate for different states.  DC is right at the top, but it's interesting to see how the states rank.

The gun loving states are right at the top.


That's why you only hear about cities like Chicago. Actually pretty much only Chicago.
 
2014-01-05 12:10:20 PM

NewportBarGuy: Why have any laws at all?


Exactly. If the law doesn't stop 100% of the problem don't bother with it. Not to mention the guns could never have come from somewhere else.
 
2014-01-05 12:12:10 PM
Deep red parts of the county I live in don't even have police departments. Keller, Southlake, Colleyville. Don't have them. Totally non-existent because there are no crimes and loose gun laws. Any criminal activity there is a figment of the imagination. True story. All of it. Look it up
 
2014-01-05 12:13:11 PM
More gun laws won't stop gun violence but more abortion laws will stop abortion, in rightwing bizarroland.
 
2014-01-05 12:13:21 PM

Fark It: Gun laws don't generally correlate one way or another to crime rates.


Are you feeling ok?
 
2014-01-05 12:23:09 PM

cameroncrazy1984: That's why you only hear about cities like Chicago. Actually pretty much only Chicago.


Like Chicago, I'd wager most of the guns used in gun crime in DC come from out of town/district.
 
2014-01-05 12:23:39 PM
Try banning water from the center of your bathtub.
 
2014-01-05 12:24:45 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: cameroncrazy1984: That's why you only hear about cities like Chicago. Actually pretty much only Chicago.

Like Chicago, I'd wager most of the guns used in gun crime in DC come from out of town/district.


I believe it. I believe NY's gun laws work because CT and NJ have similarly strict gun laws. Actually, I'm not sure what NJ's are like.
 
2014-01-05 12:25:09 PM

NewportBarGuy: Why have any laws at all?


So that we can have courts where any disputes between individuals can be settled according to common law.
 
2014-01-05 12:25:28 PM
I like the availability of firearms. But I just don't feel like going over the same debates with the same people today.
 
2014-01-05 12:25:37 PM
I wonder where those guns could be coming from... hmm...

wwp.greenwichmeantime.com
 
2014-01-05 12:28:46 PM
Obviously it means we should ban money so we can prevent others from shooting each other over it. Go back to bartering.
 
2014-01-05 12:32:36 PM

vpb: It's really interesting to compare the firearms death rate for different states.  DC is right at the top, but it's interesting to see how the states rank.

The gun loving states are right at the top.


When did DC become a state?
 
2014-01-05 12:33:10 PM
Look at DC's demographics, therein lies the answer.
 
2014-01-05 12:35:24 PM

NewportBarGuy: Why have any laws at all?


Exactly! I've never murdered anyone! And none of my friends have been murdered!
 
2014-01-05 12:36:53 PM
If getting rid of the weapons doesn't solve the problem, maybe we should consider getting rid of the people who use them instead.

/just sayin'
 
2014-01-05 12:37:41 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: NewportBarGuy: Why have any laws at all?

Well, if everyone's packing we don't need any, obviously

/think of the money we can save on police alone


Not to mention the boom in the morturary and trauma surgeon industries.
 
2014-01-05 12:38:22 PM

Superjew: If getting rid of the weapons doesn't solve the problem, maybe we should consider getting rid of the people who use them instead.

/just sayin'


The police?
 
2014-01-05 12:38:28 PM

Superjew: If getting rid of the weapons doesn't solve the problem, maybe we should consider getting rid of the people who use them instead.

/just sayin'


Some sort of 'final solution', you might say?
 
2014-01-05 12:39:34 PM
I love the dumb stuff on. weekend Fark. Reminds me I have shiat to do.
 
2014-01-05 12:40:28 PM

TuteTibiImperes: DC is also a small geographic area.  Expand DC's gun control laws to VA and MD and the gun crime rate in DC would drop further.


This. A short ride on the Metro gets you to one of the most permissive states.
 
2014-01-05 12:41:54 PM

cameroncrazy1984: NYC has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, and their crime rate has been going down for a long time.


Chicago has some of the strongest gun laws now and historically. They've been a war zone more than once and will be again.

It's almost like, gasp, guns are not a cause of crime.

Find me the poverty, I'll find you the crooks.
 
2014-01-05 12:42:00 PM
Gun violence is not a function of law, or accessibility, or availability, or anything that has to do with guns. It is a function of culture.

Until you change the culture, the violence will persist.
 
2014-01-05 12:43:21 PM
 
2014-01-05 12:44:07 PM

doglover: Chicago has some of the strongest gun laws now and historically. They've been a war zone more than once and will be again.


Guns in Chicago primarily come from out of county/state. And in 2013 Chicago had the fewest murders since 1965.
 
2014-01-05 12:46:06 PM
1400? That's a big number! I'm convinced - without any further need for context, comparison or explanation.
 
2014-01-05 12:48:47 PM

doglover: cameroncrazy1984: NYC has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, and their crime rate has been going down for a long time.

Chicago has some of the strongest gun laws now and historically. They've been a war zone more than once and will be again.

It's almost like, gasp, guns are not a cause of crime.

Find me the poverty, I'll find you the crooks.


Guns are not the cause of crime, but access to guns allows criminals to do more damage.

Isolated gun control laws will never be as effective as nationwide ones.  The UK and Japan both have very low rates of firearm violence because they have strict firearm control laws and can mostly prevent them from entering the country.  There's no way that Chicago can do that effectively, but if gun controls were established nationwide it would do a lot to reduce gun crime over time (it would take a while here just because of the sheer number of guns already in the country).

And sure, we're not an island, but Canada has effective firearm controls, so we wouldn't see much gun running from that border.  Mexico is another story, but effective policing near the border could hopefully catch a lot of the guns coming over and contain the gun violence closer to the border.
 
2014-01-05 12:49:56 PM
This besides the fact that strict checkpoints at all access points to and from the city prevent anyone from bringing firearms in, from Virginia (unrestricted ownership with the exception of machine guns--hey, I have to register my machine gun in Virginia? You bastards!) or from any of the other gun-besotted neo-confederacies of the Southeast.  Most guns used in crime have either been stolen (around 15%) or transferred between individuals after the original purchase (i.e., picked up no questions asked at the local gun fair). Given that these guns are almost inevitably disposed of as too incriminating, if guns were outlawed for a short while only outlaws would have guns. And then no one would have guns.

I wish there were a sensible way to discuss this situation. I understand completely why people in the flyover states cling to their guns; they need long barrel guns to put food on the table (you sure can't afford meat at Walmart wages) and they need hand guns to protect themselves from the other poverty-stricken meth-addled hicks they share their little corner of hell with. I'm prepared to accept 30,000 annual gun deaths in this country  as the price of maintaining our Second Amendment rights. I'd just settle for a few common sense restrictions on high capacity magazines so that the next time some nutbar decides to decorate the walls at the local elementary school with children's brains, he has to stop to reload a little sooner and maybe keep the cost of freedom down just a little.
 
2014-01-05 12:52:36 PM

sammyk: Fark It: Gun laws don't generally correlate one way or another to crime rates.

Are you feeling ok?


He's right, actually. Strict gun laws do not correlate to low crime or high crime very well. Open carry correlates to low crime mainly because the areas with open carry are rural areas which are not prone to high crime in the first place. However, cities need strict gun laws to prevent even worse death rates than currently exist, mainly because people have bad safety, poor aim, and there are a ton of bystanders around and windows for stray bullets to go through. Plus, guns are not very good self-defense in many street-crime situations in, say, here in NYC, since you don't have time to deploy your weapon and gain the advantage. Not to mention that pesky bystander and stray bullet travel problem. In home invasion style robberies, it works well. May even work well for carjackings, depending on the particulars.

In large, dense cities, gun control makes sense to me, provided law enforcement doesn't suck (most egregiously seen in Detroit and Camden). In other areas, I don't care, give them out at drive-thrus for all I care. Put in some controls for people with mental problems so they don't get guns easily. No gun control scenario will work as well as the proponents want it to work, but it's literally better than nothing in most cases. In the end, the illegal guns come from somewhere. Find a better way to crack down on that, and you have a much bigger impact.

Want the real answer to gun violence? Changing how Americans think. This "I am a man and I have to prove my mainliness and not appear weak and not getting disrespected" shiat is the absolute root of violence in the US. Solve that and you solve the real issue.

So in conclusion, gun control is certainly a bit of a misdirection in terms of result, and much of it is just legislative masturbation to respond to some outrage, but applied in the right area, with the right law-enforcement framework, will likely help. Just don't expect it to be the solution.

I don't own a gun. I like shooting guns. I don't really have skin in this game one way or the other, so I shrug more than anything.
 
2014-01-05 12:52:49 PM

FlashHarry: submitter's logic:

murder is illegal

there are still murders

therefore murder should be legal.

QED


Look, they only want murder of "those people" to be legal.  You know the ones.
 
m00
2014-01-05 12:53:18 PM

cameroncrazy1984: NYC has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, and their crime rate has been going down for a long time.


They also have stop-and-frisk. Which is a whole different conversation. I was in New York for the holidays, and there was NO WHERE on the island that felt unsafe. I guess totalitarianism really can guarantee safety -- there was a cop on every corner empowered to frisk you (I made a game of "how many seconds I can go without seeing a cop"), and "if you see something, say something" posters everywhere.

The Federal Government fails because it takes away our freedoms and makes us less safe. At least in New York you get safety in exchange. So I wouldn't chalk up lowering crime rate in NYC to the gun laws alone... it's a total commitment to crime prevention at the expense of all other sensibilities.
 
2014-01-05 01:00:51 PM

Ishkur: Gun violence is not a function of law, or accessibility, or availability, or anything that has to do with guns. It is a function of culture.

Until you change the culture, the violence will persist.


Then who will fight our wars for us?
 
2014-01-05 01:01:52 PM

Sleeping Monkey: More gun laws won't stop gun violence but more abortion laws will stop abortion, in rightwing bizarroland.


And just the opposite in leftwing bizarroland
 
2014-01-05 01:01:59 PM

vpb: It's really interesting to compare the firearms death rate for different states.  DC is right at the top, but it's interesting to see how the states rank.

The gun loving states are right at the top.


when i clicked on Louisiana the stats included lynchings. this caused me to question the validity of their methodology.
 
2014-01-05 01:02:49 PM

rjakobi: Obviously it means we should ban money so we can prevent others from shooting each other over it. Go back to bartering.


How much health care can I get for this chicken?
 
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