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(RealClear)   Pope Francis continues his trolling of Catholic traditionalists, calls for the Church to be more inclusive of the children of gay couples and divorced parents   (realclear.com) divider line 39
    More: Spiffy, Pope Francis, conservative Catholics, churches, Catholics, Catholic Church  
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3124 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jan 2014 at 1:19 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-05 11:48:20 AM  
7 votes:
You know how I can tell he's a good Pope? My nominally-Catholic, FoxNews-quoting, GOP-voting, Idiot Brother-In-Law hates him.
2014-01-05 09:35:18 AM  
7 votes:
Jesus:  "Finally, someone actually gets it!"
2014-01-05 01:38:34 PM  
4 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: DeltaPunch: F*ck me, at this rate the Church might end up being tolerant of nearly everyone!

Ummm.... no.  Still excommunicating priests who encourage women to be ordained, still saying "HELL no" do acceptane of gay marriage, still saying pedophile priests who go to confession and therapy are okay to still be moved around...

Not accepting.  Just nicer about it.




You are looking at this as an outsider. What seems to be little shifts to you is seismic for the Catholic Church. This man is a continent mover!

As a former Catholic, I can tell you that Confession only works if you are sincere and actually change. You are to be forgiven, as Jesus said, even being a child molester.

Before, it would just ignore the kid and move the priest. The fact is if the pope gets the guy therapy and moves them away from kids is a significant improvement.

Now if only the other religions, such as Hasidic, Orthodox Jews and evangelicals would take the same responsibility.
2014-01-05 02:23:19 PM  
3 votes:
I do not understand the people in this thread who say Pope Francis is doing nothing.

I want an omelettes for breakfast. I keep going to the grocery store and buying eggs, cheese, an milk. I was under the impression that is a step I need to take before I can make the omelettes.

I get the impression that some of the people in this thread laugh at the fools who shop for groceries. What is the point of putting cheese in the fridge? Cheese is not omelettes!
2014-01-05 01:06:07 PM  
3 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: But he's still excommunicated a priest for encouraging women's ordination,


That priest didn't just encourage women's ordination, he resigned and  started his own church that ordained women, married gay couples, presided over a mass in his new church where a parishioner gave communion to a dog, and in general fulfilled just about every single thing you could possibly do to get excommunicated.

You are not allowed to start your own church and still be a Roman Catholic priest.  It's one of the big no-no's.  The only people pretending to be shocked that he was booted are Protestants.
2014-01-05 11:00:44 AM  
3 votes:
If this offends their traditionalists, their traditions are farking stupid.
2014-01-05 04:51:59 PM  
2 votes:
He really is making it harder for:

1). Conservative Christians who really like to cling to their bigotry (and)
2). The anti-religious folks who really like to cling to their bigotry

I'd say he's doing something very, very right.
2014-01-05 03:09:40 PM  
2 votes:

Darth_Lukecash: Benevolent Misanthrope: DeltaPunch: F*ck me, at this rate the Church might end up being tolerant of nearly everyone!

Ummm.... no.  Still excommunicating priests who encourage women to be ordained, still saying "HELL no" do acceptane of gay marriage, still saying pedophile priests who go to confession and therapy are okay to still be moved around...

Not accepting.  Just nicer about it.

You are looking at this as an outsider. What seems to be little shifts to you is seismic for the Catholic Church. This man is a continent mover!

As a former Catholic, I can tell you that Confession only works if you are sincere and actually change. You are to be forgiven, as Jesus said, even being a child molester.

Before, it would just ignore the kid and move the priest. The fact is if the pope gets the guy therapy and moves them away from kids is a significant improvement.

Now if only the other religions, such as Hasidic, Orthodox Jews and evangelicals would take the same responsibility.


Actually, BM spent some time in a convent. I think she has a better handle on RCC policy than most people.

Pope Francis is a mobster with a PR firm.  He's still running the mob, and the mob is still evil, but he kisses babies so everything is good.
2014-01-05 02:29:43 PM  
2 votes:

Bennie Crabtree: I do not understand the people in this thread who say Pope Francis is doing nothing.

I want an omelettes for breakfast. I keep going to the grocery store and buying eggs, cheese, an milk. I was under the impression that is a step I need to take before I can make the omelettes.

I get the impression that some of the people in this thread laugh at the fools who shop for groceries. What is the point of putting cheese in the fridge? Cheese is not omelettes!


Precisely. Affecting change on such a large, dug-in organization as the Catholic Church (probably THE largest, dug-in organization in existence), takes time, requireing that A be done before B can be attempted, and then C and so on and so forth.
2014-01-05 01:52:29 PM  
2 votes:
WippitGuud:
Its_something.jpg

What happens if he does all this other stuff you're asking for? People already think he's going to be assassinated fpr what he has done so far, trying to take on the rest of your church isn't exactly a cakewalk.


Thank you, well put.

Francisi is head of the Catholic Church, not the Unitarian Universalists.. Give him credit when he makes steps in the right direction.
2014-01-05 01:47:28 PM  
2 votes:
I consider myself a recovering catholic.  And this guy actually is making me start liking the church again.
2014-01-05 01:45:38 PM  
2 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: DeltaPunch:

Ummm.... no.  Still excommunicating priests who encourage women to be ordained, still saying "HELL no" do acceptane of gay marriage, still saying pedophile priests who go to confession and therapy are okay to still be moved around...

Not accepting.  Just nicer about it.


Exactly this.

People are tripping all over themselves about how awesome the new era of the Catholic Church is, but none one single official dogma/policy has been changed by this guy, nor can it be since ALL the Popes speak for God, he can't say God was wrong.

He's the ultimate PR machine, and maybe he really is a good guy, but he's actually changed nothing about what the Church believes, preaches or practices.

When he does that, THEN people should be excited, until then he's just a politician kissing babies and making speeches.

He still doesn't believe these children are legitimate, or from legitimate marriages, nor does his organization.
2014-01-05 01:24:04 PM  
2 votes:

chirho.me



/Oblig
//They see him Pope-in'....They hatin'.
2014-01-05 12:02:34 PM  
2 votes:
I find it interesting that he has shifted his message a bit and allowed us to hear the kinds of things that are usually reserved for the closed portions of conferences.  Usually, he would say, "Spiritual needs vary from person to person.  We have to respect them and accept them into a loving Church, no matter what their background."  Instead, he said, "We're losing market share - we have to figure out a way to keep them in the pews.  Let's be careful not to advertise in a way that shoots us in the foot."

Interesting.  It's hard to keep it up, the politically correct speech.  He hasn't expressed a different stance, generally - he's just said things in a nicer way.  But he's still excommunicated a priest for encouraging women's ordination, said "no way" to acceptance of gay marriage, and continued the line that pedophile priests who confess their sin and repent are not necessarily "corrupt" and should be forgiven and let loose again.

So, yeah.  Nice guy, and he's certainly a breath of fresh air, but not seeing anything new here.
2014-01-05 11:03:45 AM  
2 votes:

ManateeGag: It's not the children's fault that their parents are filthy heathen sinners.


Funny thing is, that line would work very well with religious conservatives.  They'd feel oh so sorry for the children, and be totally for any efforts to help them succeed in life.

Swap "filthy heathen sinners" for "undocumented immigrant", however, and they'll trip over themselves trying to throw the kids under the church bus.
2014-01-05 09:43:16 AM  
2 votes:
Religious conservatives are really starting to hate this guy.
2014-01-05 09:40:32 AM  
2 votes:
And I'm still saying next election cycle we'll have at least two GOTP candidates bring out the Protestant view that the line of the Papacy will bring about the anti-Christ

/surprised they aren't calling them papists already.
2014-01-05 11:17:52 PM  
1 votes:

Kope: Benevolent Misanthrope: But he's still excommunicated a priest for encouraging women's ordination

Most of what else you've written is wrong as well, but this needs addressed repeatedly: Reynolds was excommunicated for providing licit but invalid sacramental services in public without proper facilities to do so.

He was not excommunicated for his stance on women's ordination. He was excommunicated because he disobeyed his Bishop in a public way. Any priest who does that will get excommunicated, regardless of if their political and theological views are 100% in-line with the Pontiffs or not.

There are plenty of priests who vocally support women's ordination out there. They aren't getting excommunicated. Why? Because they aren't being stupid . . .


Ah.  So, which of those 3 reasons was the basis for his excommunication, again?

So, the other Catholics who have been blasting me on this are wrong, in that he didn't go off on his own, start a new church, and style himself a Bishop?  I mean, I can actually see if if he did that.  But if it's just a mater of being politically stupid, I wasn't aware that was a excommunicable offense.  And frankly, when repeat sexual offenders - incorrigible ones - are being allowed to stay in the Church and keep their ministries, I find it hard to spare sympathy for a guy who thinks it's more egregious to ordain women than it is to rape children.

But still - I hold to my point that Francis, nice a guy as he is and great a comunicator as he is, hasn't actually changed anything.
2014-01-05 10:11:51 PM  
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: ManateeGag: It's not the children's fault that their parents are filthy heathen sinners.

Funny thing is, that line would work very well with religious conservatives.  They'd feel oh so sorry for the children, and be totally for any efforts to help them succeed in life.

Swap "filthy heathen sinners" for "undocumented immigrant", however, and they'll trip over themselves trying to throw the kids under the church bus.


Shows you how much the pro-lifers REALLY care about kids.  (don't really care at all unless they can use it as a political issue to wage a campaign, like the issue of abortion.)
2014-01-05 10:03:54 PM  
1 votes:

Lydia_C: Good grief, I haven't heard that business about fasting an hour before taking the Eucharist since the early 70s. How ancient is this priest???


Uh, the rules haven't changed.

Also, since communion doesn't occur until 45 minutes into the mass and you're presumably taking some time to get to church, most people manage to adhere to it without any trouble at all.  I know America is a fat country, but if you people can't manage to stop eating on your way to church, maybe you should reassess your dietary habits.
2014-01-05 04:46:08 PM  
1 votes:
It's nice that the pope is reiterating the doctrine to not punish a child for their parent's sins. The Christian schools that kick out kids for having gay parents, etc. need a refresher on that teaching of Jesus. The pope is saying that the catholic church needs to remember that except for Original Sin, a child does not bear the sin of their parents.
2014-01-05 04:01:29 PM  
1 votes:

Notabunny: fta "We must be careful not to administer a vaccine against faith to them," the 77-year-old added.

That would be a welcome change in policy.


Oh great, now the Pope has joined the anti-vaxxer crowd.
2014-01-05 03:52:26 PM  
1 votes:

DammitIForgotMyLogin: This is a bullshiat argument, and will remain a bullshiat argument until the Catholic church decide that their repressive and backwards opinions about gay people and women should only apply to members of the Catholic church.

When they stop trying to get them written into law in various countries, then you'll have a point.


As a Catholic, I agree with you. There's no mention of writing laws in the NT (of course, that wasn't possible under the Roman Empire) and it contradicts the Church doctrine of Free Will (you have to choose not to sin, not be denied the opportunity).
2014-01-05 02:34:46 PM  
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Plant Rights Activist: on the one hand he has changed the catholic church for the better on the other hand I'm not really sure it's a good thing that the church stay relevant.  It'd almost be better if they stayed as blatantly corrupt as they were.

[citation needed]


I like how you apparently didn't need a citation to biatch about the bishop who was excommunicated.
And then kind of ignored it when someone pointed out the *other* reasons that bishop you were biatching about was excommunicated.

Perhaps the pope needs to show us his long form birth certificate.
2014-01-05 02:29:52 PM  
1 votes:

ManateeGag: It's not the children's fault that their parents are filthy heathen sinners.


Oh, they hate Catholics anyway. But the Catholics are maybe going to be less useful in the next few years...
2014-01-05 02:23:54 PM  
1 votes:

Ubiquitous homeless guy: he can't say God was wrong


No, but he can say "As the church has always taught..." before reversing previous dogma and people will be happy to believe the obvious lie. It happens all the time.
2014-01-05 02:13:30 PM  
1 votes:
You know that guy who shows up on the news shortly after a huge corporation causes some sort of major disaster? The one with the shiny grin and easy patter who wants to convince you that they've seen the error of their ways this time, and they're going to clean it all up and absolutely pinky swear that this sort of thing will never happen again?

Yeah, that's Francis.


In the meantime, he's still actively encouraging Catholic bishops to speak out against bills which would allow gay people to adopt children, people like Bernard Law are still living a life of luxury in the Vatican instead of rotting in a prison cell, and the Catholic church remain as committed as ever to denying women the right to autonomy over their own bodies. So i'll stop considering the church to be a corrupt and evil institution when it, you know, actually stops being one.
2014-01-05 02:09:56 PM  
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: But what has he done lately with his pedophile priest committee? Any progress there?

No?




Pope orders Bishops to punish Pedophile Priests

As I've stated before: Pope is making changes... Baby steps.
2014-01-05 01:57:15 PM  
1 votes:

maram500: Christ Almighty...all Frankie needs to do is make it Church policy that gay people aren't necessarily sinners and heathens, and I might actually start going back to mass.

/Born and raised Catholic
//Stopped going to mass just before I came out


Well, gay people who don't have sex aren't sinners. Not that that's much help.
2014-01-05 01:53:38 PM  
1 votes:
Christ Almighty...all Frankie needs to do is make it Church policy that gay people aren't necessarily sinners and heathens, and I might actually start going back to mass.

/Born and raised Catholic
//Stopped going to mass just before I came out
2014-01-05 01:52:16 PM  
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Plant Rights Activist: on the one hand he has changed the catholic church for the better on the other hand I'm not really sure it's a good thing that the church stay relevant.  It'd almost be better if they stayed as blatantly corrupt as they were.

[citation needed]


C'mon, you've seen the citations in previous threads. Cleaning up the Vatican Bank, handing all pedophile reports to local authorities, admonishing extravagant Bishops, etc.
2014-01-05 01:40:55 PM  
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: DeltaPunch: F*ck me, at this rate the Church might end up being tolerant of nearly everyone!

Ummm.... no.  Still excommunicating priests who encourage women to be ordained, still saying "HELL no" do acceptane of gay marriage, still saying pedophile priests who go to confession and therapy are okay to still be moved around...

Not accepting.  Just nicer about it.


www.thatsnotdelicious.com

What happens if he does all this other stuff you're asking for? People already think he's going to be assassinated fpr what he has done so far, trying to take on the rest of your church isn't exactly a cakewalk.
2014-01-05 01:28:46 PM  
1 votes:
Popey McAwesomepope strikes again.
2014-01-05 01:28:15 PM  
1 votes:

NFA: pueblonative: And I'm still saying next election cycle we'll have at least two GOTP candidates bring out the Protestant view that the line of the Papacy will bring about the anti-Christ

/surprised they aren't calling them papists already.

This was discussed before Francis was even selected.  I'm not joking..

"Is Pope Francis the final pope?
That is too early to tell for sure.  But if he is, he will be an antipope and the final Antichrist."


The derp is strong in this one.
2014-01-05 01:26:00 PM  
1 votes:
Wait, divorced kids need to excommunicated? When did that start?
2014-01-05 12:45:37 PM  
1 votes:

DeltaPunch: F*ck me, at this rate the Church might end up being tolerant of nearly everyone!


Ummm.... no.  Still excommunicating priests who encourage women to be ordained, still saying "HELL no" do acceptane of gay marriage, still saying pedophile priests who go to confession and therapy are okay to still be moved around...

Not accepting.  Just nicer about it.
2014-01-05 12:18:28 PM  
1 votes:
F*ck me, at this rate the Church might end up being tolerant of nearly everyone!
NFA [TotalFark]
2014-01-05 10:49:27 AM  
1 votes:

pueblonative: And I'm still saying next election cycle we'll have at least two GOTP candidates bring out the Protestant view that the line of the Papacy will bring about the anti-Christ

/surprised they aren't calling them papists already.


This was discussed before Francis was even selected.  I'm not joking..

"Is Pope Francis the final pope?
That is too early to tell for sure.  But if he is, he will be an antipope and the final Antichrist."
2014-01-05 09:48:43 AM  
1 votes:
It's not the children's fault that their parents are filthy heathen sinners.
 
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