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(RealClear)   Pope Francis continues his trolling of Catholic traditionalists, calls for the Church to be more inclusive of the children of gay couples and divorced parents   (realclear.com) divider line 161
    More: Spiffy, Pope Francis, conservative Catholics, churches, Catholics, Catholic Church  
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3111 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jan 2014 at 1:19 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-05 04:51:59 PM
He really is making it harder for:

1). Conservative Christians who really like to cling to their bigotry (and)
2). The anti-religious folks who really like to cling to their bigotry

I'd say he's doing something very, very right.
 
2014-01-05 04:59:09 PM

WippitGuud: Benevolent Misanthrope: DeltaPunch: F*ck me, at this rate the Church might end up being tolerant of nearly everyone!

Ummm.... no.  Still excommunicating priests who encourage women to be ordained, still saying "HELL no" do acceptane of gay marriage, still saying pedophile priests who go to confession and therapy are okay to still be moved around...

Not accepting.  Just nicer about it.

[www.thatsnotdelicious.com image 300x246]

What happens if he does all this other stuff you're asking for? People already think he's going to be assassinated fpr what he has done so far, trying to take on the rest of your church isn't exactly a cakewalk.


Why would the pope ever be afraid of assassination? Or death, in general?
 
2014-01-05 05:01:15 PM

towatchoverme: He really is making it harder for:

1). Conservative Christians who really like to cling to their bigotry (and)
2). The anti-religious folks who really like to cling to their bigotry

I'd say he's doing something very, very right.


Considering the Church is a world-wide operation, if you're a bigoted Catholic you're doing it wrong. If you're talking sexual orientation, you're still doing it wrong.
 
2014-01-05 05:06:09 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Benevolent Misanthrope: DeltaPunch: F*ck me, at this rate the Church might end up being tolerant of nearly everyone!

Ummm.... no.  Still excommunicating priests who encourage women to be ordained, still saying "HELL no" do acceptane of gay marriage, still saying pedophile priests who go to confession and therapy are okay to still be moved around...

Not accepting.  Just nicer about it.

You are looking at this as an outsider. What seems to be little shifts to you is seismic for the Catholic Church. This man is a continent mover!

As a former Catholic, I can tell you that Confession only works if you are sincere and actually change. You are to be forgiven, as Jesus said, even being a child molester.

Before, it would just ignore the kid and move the priest. The fact is if the pope gets the guy therapy and moves them away from kids is a significant improvement.

Now if only the other religions, such as Hasidic, Orthodox Jews and evangelicals would take the same responsibility.


Those are authoritarian religions. They dare not weaken the authority of the individual clergyperson over the faithful. If you believe god is someone to be obeyed without question (or in the Jewish case, to be obeyed despite question), the individual clergyperson is where that authority has to be acted out - where the rubber meets the road, as it were.
 
2014-01-05 05:13:16 PM

simplicimus: zulius: Wait, divorced kids need to excommunicated? When did that start?

Never.


So, wait, kids need to be married before they're excommunicated?

When did that start?
 
2014-01-05 05:28:37 PM

iron de havilland: simplicimus: zulius: Wait, divorced kids need to excommunicated? When did that start?

Never.

So, wait, kids need to be married before they're excommunicated?

When did that start?


Again, never. Despite some sabre rattling by certain American Bishops, it takes a lot to get formally excommunicated.
 
2014-01-05 05:31:33 PM
I'm not entirely positive at this point that the Catholic church didn't just hire a PR firm rep to act as the Pope
 
2014-01-05 05:32:33 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: But what has he done lately with his pedophile priest committee? Any progress there?

No?


http://www.breakingchristiannews.com/articles/display_art.html?ID=120 7 8">http://www.breakingchristiannews.com/articles/display_art.html?ID= 1207 8
 
2014-01-05 05:35:45 PM

techgeek07: I consider myself a recovering catholic.  And this guy actually is making me start liking the church again.


I feels ya.

/not in a creepy priest type of way
 
2014-01-05 05:39:29 PM

simplicimus: iron de havilland: simplicimus: zulius: Wait, divorced kids need to excommunicated? When did that start?

Never.

So, wait, kids need to be married before they're excommunicated?

When did that start?

Again, never.


So kids can never be married before they're excommunicated?

When did that start?
 
2014-01-05 05:55:11 PM

simplicimus: EdBear: MrBallou: You know how I can tell he's a good Pope? My nominally-Catholic, FoxNews-quoting, GOP-voting, Idiot Brother-In-Law hates him.

An old friend of mine, good guy but not the brightest bulb in the box, ravenous consumer of Faux News, surprised me not one bit by spewing hate and vitriol when I dropped the name of Francis in conversation.

By their fruits shall ye know them.  Francis attracting rage for following the lessons of Christ tells me he's probably on the right page.

I mean, I'm no Christian, but it is frankly amazing to see the degree to which people who are nominally of the faith are utterly enraged by a pope who appears to be trying to follow the message of the new testament.

Mostly following the Gospels. I expect to start hearing Whore of Babylon references pretty soon.


More Miley Cyrus threads?
 
2014-01-05 05:55:13 PM

markfara: Elvis Presleys Death Throne: It's always sad to me when I see a single mother/father come into church week after week and have to send their children to receive communion while they sit in the pew.

My divorced Catholic mother received the sacraments regularly until she married my stepfather, then she couldn't. It's not divorce that keeps a Catholic from eligibility for sacraments. It's remarriage.


While marriage binds two souls together, allowing the devil into your heart and taking the path of divorce rips them in twain again. The mixed, now tainted, souls become a forlorn mix of the two which preceded them, often broken and unable to face the world properly again. While remarriage may fix such a thing, too commonly the broken soul will only lead to another messy divorce. As the bits of the original soul spread through those entwining and shearing their souls repeatedly, eventually the scraps of soul that originally bound them will be so far removed, that they can stretch generations, perhaps indefinitely.

As everyone knows, while any fragment of a soul remains bound to this world, that soul cannot move on.  Divorce is the devils horcrux, and divorcees his legion.

/ 5th UnderCaptain in the 4th Regiment Of Things That Go Squish When Stepped On By A Balrog
 
2014-01-05 05:58:55 PM

OtherLittleGuy: simplicimus: EdBear: MrBallou: You know how I can tell he's a good Pope? My nominally-Catholic, FoxNews-quoting, GOP-voting, Idiot Brother-In-Law hates him.

An old friend of mine, good guy but not the brightest bulb in the box, ravenous consumer of Faux News, surprised me not one bit by spewing hate and vitriol when I dropped the name of Francis in conversation.

By their fruits shall ye know them.  Francis attracting rage for following the lessons of Christ tells me he's probably on the right page.

I mean, I'm no Christian, but it is frankly amazing to see the degree to which people who are nominally of the faith are utterly enraged by a pope who appears to be trying to follow the message of the new testament.

Mostly following the Gospels. I expect to start hearing Whore of Babylon references pretty soon.

More Miley Cyrus threads?


Please, no.
 
2014-01-05 06:10:09 PM

CowardlyLion: Why would the pope ever be afraid of assassination? Or death, in general?


Essentially because he is simply a man*. His ability to act bravely in public is testament to his courage, it does not mean he has no fears. He has no special insight to his personal salvation, I am certain that he lives with doubts that God exists at all. I suppose he takes comfort in that doing his best may be helpful for humanity regardless of his soul's fate. 
*although even Jesus, who believed himself not to be simply a man also acknowledges a fear of death.
 
2014-01-05 06:37:13 PM

clancifer: Religious conservatives are really starting to hate this guy.


Which is a sign that he's doing something right.
 
2014-01-05 07:09:43 PM

iron de havilland: simplicimus: iron de havilland: simplicimus: zulius: Wait, divorced kids need to excommunicated? When did that start?

Never.

So, wait, kids need to be married before they're excommunicated?

When did that start?

Again, never.

So kids can never be married before they're excommunicated?

When did that start?




Let me help you.

Children of divorced Catholics are not excommunicated and are allowed to marry.

The only time you cannot be married in the church if
a) you are the same sex as your partner
b) Divorced, without an annulment
c) or are currently married to another person
E)dead
 
2014-01-05 07:16:52 PM

Dadoody: [i.imgur.com image 850x493]

[static4.businessinsider.com image 491x363]


The day they announced the new pope, I almost swore that I heard Imperial Marching music, because of how scary close the last pope looks to the Emperor.

Whatever happened to the old pope anyway? Wonder if he got thrown down the shaft of a battle station or something.
 
2014-01-05 07:20:26 PM

Darth_Lukecash: iron de havilland: simplicimus: iron de havilland: simplicimus: zulius: Wait, divorced kids need to excommunicated? When did that start?

Never.

So, wait, kids need to be married before they're excommunicated?

When did that start?

Again, never.

So kids can never be married before they're excommunicated?

When did that start?

Let me help you.

Children of divorced Catholics are not excommunicated and are allowed to marry.

The only time you cannot be married in the church if
a) you are the same sex as your partner
b) Divorced, without an annulment
c) or are currently married to another person
E)dead


f) did not receive the sacraments of Baptism, Penance, Eucharist, and Confirmation.
 
2014-01-05 07:20:55 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Let me help you.

Children of divorced Catholics are not excommunicated and are allowed to marry.


So, to excommunicate kids, you have to be divorced?

When did that start?
 
2014-01-05 07:33:53 PM

Jeteupthemiddle: Darth_Lukecash: iron de havilland: simplicimus: iron de havilland: simplicimus: zulius: Wait, divorced kids need to excommunicated? When did that start?

Never.

So, wait, kids need to be married before they're excommunicated?

When did that start?

Again, never.

So kids can never be married before they're excommunicated?

When did that start?

Let me help you.

Children of divorced Catholics are not excommunicated and are allowed to marry.

The only time you cannot be married in the church if
a) you are the same sex as your partner
b) Divorced, without an annulment
c) or are currently married to another person
E)dead

f) did not receive the sacraments of Baptism, Penance, Eucharist, and Confirmation

(in a Catholic church)
 
2014-01-05 07:55:47 PM

doctor wu: I wonder what's going on in the catholic church. There's no way all those medieval-minded, pedophile-enabling old f*ckers can be good with what the new boss is selling. Hard to preach fear and guilt and eternal damnation with this guy spreading love all over the place.  I wonder if he'll even stop shielding  from prosecution the child-molesters they've got hiding out at the Vatican?


They are ignoring him.

My wife is a non-attending Catholic. We are same-sex married. She feels that she cannot attend her own church and they had let her down. Well, she was about ready to take the plunge and actually attend Midnight Mass this past Christmas, since the Pope says she is now a legitimate seeker of faith. However, our local parish priest is old, old fashioned and  old country. They actually put blurbs on their Christmas service times flyer that stated you must fast for an hour before Eucharist, but medication and water don't count. Also, that it is your obligation to attend services every week unless you are ill or dying.

That really turned her off - the fasting part is next to impossible for medical reasons, so I assume the priest would be happy to have her either eat something and stay non-comatose, but not take communion, or fast and end up getting last rites on the steps of the sanctuary?

So, as much as she would love to attend, to be a part of it again, whatever Francis is saying is definitely NOT hitting all local parishes, not yet anyhow.
 
2014-01-05 08:15:22 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Plant Rights Activist: on the one hand he has changed the catholic church for the better on the other hand I'm not really sure it's a good thing that the church stay relevant.  It'd almost be better if they stayed as blatantly corrupt as they were.

[citation needed]


AFAIK, some churches used to be assholes to kids of parents who were 'sinners', like divorced or gay couples, by not letting them go to Catholic schools\join various groups\whatever. Treating them like human beings? Good damn change from where I stand.
 
2014-01-05 08:28:43 PM

Evil Canadian: That really turned her off - the fasting part is next to impossible for medical reasons,


Your wife can't go one hour without eating?
 
2014-01-05 08:47:39 PM

Evil Canadian: However, our local parish priest is old, old fashioned and  old country. They actually put blurbs on their Christmas service times flyer that stated you must fast for an hour before Eucharist, but medication and water don't count. Also, that it is your obligation to attend services every week unless you are ill or dying.


Good grief, I haven't heard that business about fasting an hour before taking the Eucharist since the early 70s. How ancient is this priest???
 
2014-01-05 09:14:01 PM

Lsherm: Benevolent Misanthrope: But he's still excommunicated a priest for encouraging women's ordination,

That priest didn't just encourage women's ordination, he resigned and  started his own church that ordained women, married gay couples, presided over a mass in his new church where a parishioner gave communion to a dog, and in general fulfilled just about every single thing you could possibly do to get excommunicated.

You are not allowed to start your own church and still be a Roman Catholic priest.  It's one of the big no-no's.  The only people pretending to be shocked that he was booted are Protestants.


Yeah, the Catholics have really had this thing against splitters since something or other happened back in 1054.
 
2014-01-05 09:40:51 PM

strangeluck: The day they announced the new pope, I almost swore that I heard Imperial Marching music, because of how scary close the last pope looks to the Emperor.

Whatever happened to the old pope anyway? Wonder if he got thrown down the shaft of a battle station or something.


According to anon sources in the vatican, things are 'tense' between him and Francis as Ratzenburg has a habit of rolling his eyes and the like at Francis.

Again, this is all suspect second hand info, but it's like the 'pope sneaking out in disguise to give alms' thing; sounds good but no way to really verify, but humorous if true.
 
2014-01-05 09:53:09 PM
I've been a catholic some 57 years and I recall no excommunication of the children of divorce.   I believe this to be a myth spread around by folk who don't like Catholics.  (just checked the page on excommunication in Wikipedia - no sign of it there)

Catholics have their issues but excommunication children of divorce is not one of them.
 
2014-01-05 09:57:41 PM

Lydia_C: Evil Canadian: However, our local parish priest is old, old fashioned and  old country. They actually put blurbs on their Christmas service times flyer that stated you must fast for an hour before Eucharist, but medication and water don't count. Also, that it is your obligation to attend services every week unless you are ill or dying.

Good grief, I haven't heard that business about fasting an hour before taking the Eucharist since the early 70s. How ancient is this priest???


I'd never heard this before either, but unlike the Protestants, we believe that it is the actual body of Christ.  It wouldn't really be appropriate to eat it with a mouthful of jelly, right?

Since most Eucharistic masses that people attend are fairly early in the morning, it doesn't seam to be that much of an issue to refrain from eating beforehand.

Regarding other fasts, such as Friday fasting, typically substitutes are okay.  If you're going to dinner at your secular in laws and they are serving ham, rather than being rude you could forgo another enjoyable activity, or perform a selfless act such as volunteering.  Generally meatless fasting should be the minimum, and a substitute should be more significant, if anything.
 
2014-01-05 09:58:54 PM

zulius: Wait, divorced kids need to excommunicated? When did that start?


This seems to be a rumor.  I just checked the wikipedia page on excommunication which was fairly detailed.  No sign of it there.  I was raised Catholic and am 57 years old.  I never heard of excommunication of the children of divorce.
 
2014-01-05 10:03:54 PM

Lydia_C: Good grief, I haven't heard that business about fasting an hour before taking the Eucharist since the early 70s. How ancient is this priest???


Uh, the rules haven't changed.

Also, since communion doesn't occur until 45 minutes into the mass and you're presumably taking some time to get to church, most people manage to adhere to it without any trouble at all.  I know America is a fat country, but if you people can't manage to stop eating on your way to church, maybe you should reassess your dietary habits.
 
2014-01-05 10:06:36 PM

towatchoverme: He really is making it harder for:

1). Conservative Christians who really like to cling to their bigotry (and)
2). The anti-religious folks who really like to cling to their bigotry

I'd say he's doing something very, very right.


Every non-religious type commenting about this Pope has showered his with praise.  Only right wing lunatics don't like this guy.  (he don't have gays and minorities like we do)
 
2014-01-05 10:11:51 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: ManateeGag: It's not the children's fault that their parents are filthy heathen sinners.

Funny thing is, that line would work very well with religious conservatives.  They'd feel oh so sorry for the children, and be totally for any efforts to help them succeed in life.

Swap "filthy heathen sinners" for "undocumented immigrant", however, and they'll trip over themselves trying to throw the kids under the church bus.


Shows you how much the pro-lifers REALLY care about kids.  (don't really care at all unless they can use it as a political issue to wage a campaign, like the issue of abortion.)
 
2014-01-05 10:18:34 PM

FarkerSnow: Wake up sheeple! Do your own research. This is just his plan to get more vulnerable children to church because they're easier to molest.


The percentage of priests molesting children is no more (and arguably less) than the population in general (so, by your logic, keep ALL adults away from children?).  Does the Church often do the wrong thing when they detect a molesting priest?  Yes, that is the problem.
 
2014-01-05 10:23:59 PM
I'm a child of two divorced catholic parents with the marriage annulled.  Not excommunicated.
 
2014-01-05 10:30:28 PM

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: Lydia_C: Evil Canadian: However, our local parish priest is old, old fashioned and  old country. They actually put blurbs on their Christmas service times flyer that stated you must fast for an hour before Eucharist, but medication and water don't count. Also, that it is your obligation to attend services every week unless you are ill or dying.

Good grief, I haven't heard that business about fasting an hour before taking the Eucharist since the early 70s. How ancient is this priest???

I'd never heard this before either, but unlike the Protestants, we believe that it is the actual body of Christ.  It wouldn't really be appropriate to eat it with a mouthful of jelly, right?

Since most Eucharistic masses that people attend are fairly early in the morning, it doesn't seam to be that much of an issue to refrain from eating beforehand.

Regarding other fasts, such as Friday fasting, typically substitutes are okay.  If you're going to dinner at your secular in laws and they are serving ham, rather than being rude you could forgo another enjoyable activity, or perform a selfless act such as volunteering.  Generally meatless fasting should be the minimum, and a substitute should be more significant, if anything.


Lsherm: Lydia_C: Good grief, I haven't heard that business about fasting an hour before taking the Eucharist since the early 70s. How ancient is this priest???

Uh, the rules haven't changed.

Also, since communion doesn't occur until 45 minutes into the mass and you're presumably taking some time to get to church, most people manage to adhere to it without any trouble at all.  I know America is a fat country, but if you people can't manage to stop eating on your way to church, maybe you should reassess your dietary habits.


Gentlemen, no need for the sarcasm about having a mouthful of jelly with the host, or inability to control one's eating for an hour. I'm a veteran of twelve years of Catholic schooling through the 70s and half the 80s, plus a bachelor's degree from a Jesuit institution. It was a practice that we students were reminded of frequently in the early days, but which literally was not emphasized in my experience any time after 1977, and hasn't been emphasized to my nephews (current Catholic school attendees). Since Evil Canadian mentioned that the parish priest was quite old, and all the nuns I knew that used to hammer on this point are long since retired or deceased, I was curious about the priest's age. That is all.
 
2014-01-05 10:32:25 PM
I don't believe they excommunicate even when you get divorced (unless, you somehow make a public big deal out of it) - these sound like ancient, no longer applied rules.
 
2014-01-05 10:47:37 PM

clancifer: Religious conservatives are really starting to hate this guy.


Maybe, but they've always been in the minority of religious believers (at least within the Catholic and high-church protestant circles). They've just had a monopoly on leadership positions.
 
2014-01-05 10:53:05 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: But he's still excommunicated a priest for encouraging women's ordination


Most of what else you've written is wrong as well, but this needs addressed repeatedly: Reynolds was excommunicated for providing licit but invalid sacramental services in public without proper facilities to do so.

He was not excommunicated for his stance on women's ordination. He was excommunicated because he disobeyed his Bishop in a public way. Any priest who does that will get excommunicated, regardless of if their political and theological views are 100% in-line with the Pontiffs or not.

There are plenty of priests who vocally support women's ordination out there. They aren't getting excommunicated. Why? Because they aren't being stupid . . .
 
2014-01-05 11:09:30 PM
Evil Canadian:

That really turned her off - the fasting part is next to impossible for medical reasons, so I assume the priest would be happy to have her either eat something and stay non-comatose, but not take communion, or fast and end up getting last rites on the steps of the sanctuary?

So, as much as she would love to attend, to be a part of it again, whatever Francis is saying is definitely NOT hitting all local parishes, not yet anyhow.


That blurb is something from the Council of American Bishops. It is a generic statement that applies to most people kind of like the statement "if you break the law you're a criminal" is a general statement but we then don't extrapolate that to suggest that someone driving at 2 mph over the speed limit is a criminal. 

There are all kinds of exceptions within canon law for just about everything having to do with practicing one's faith. And certainly the practice of fasting before communion (which is not even a canonically required observance) comes with a whole host of asterisks. 

And, here's the biggest thing that the laity really don't get: the average priest isn't that well educated either in terms of canon law or in terms of formal theology. They generally have a master's in theology that is focused on pastoral care or liturgy. 

/went to graduate school on fellowship for systematic theology
 
2014-01-05 11:12:02 PM

Lsherm: Lydia_C: Good grief, I haven't heard that business about fasting an hour before taking the Eucharist since the early 70s. How ancient is this priest???

Uh, the rules haven't changed.

Also, since communion doesn't occur until 45 minutes into the mass and you're presumably taking some time to get to church, most people manage to adhere to it without any trouble at all.  I know America is a fat country, but if you people can't manage to stop eating on your way to church, maybe you should reassess your dietary habits.


We used to have a priest who could get you in and out of a daily mass in 25 minutes.
 
2014-01-05 11:17:52 PM

Kope: Benevolent Misanthrope: But he's still excommunicated a priest for encouraging women's ordination

Most of what else you've written is wrong as well, but this needs addressed repeatedly: Reynolds was excommunicated for providing licit but invalid sacramental services in public without proper facilities to do so.

He was not excommunicated for his stance on women's ordination. He was excommunicated because he disobeyed his Bishop in a public way. Any priest who does that will get excommunicated, regardless of if their political and theological views are 100% in-line with the Pontiffs or not.

There are plenty of priests who vocally support women's ordination out there. They aren't getting excommunicated. Why? Because they aren't being stupid . . .


Ah.  So, which of those 3 reasons was the basis for his excommunication, again?

So, the other Catholics who have been blasting me on this are wrong, in that he didn't go off on his own, start a new church, and style himself a Bishop?  I mean, I can actually see if if he did that.  But if it's just a mater of being politically stupid, I wasn't aware that was a excommunicable offense.  And frankly, when repeat sexual offenders - incorrigible ones - are being allowed to stay in the Church and keep their ministries, I find it hard to spare sympathy for a guy who thinks it's more egregious to ordain women than it is to rape children.

But still - I hold to my point that Francis, nice a guy as he is and great a comunicator as he is, hasn't actually changed anything.
 
2014-01-05 11:22:58 PM

Kope: And, here's the biggest thing that the laity really don't get: the average priest isn't that well educated either in terms of canon law or in terms of formal theology. They generally have a master's in theology that is focused on pastoral care or liturgy.


This ^^^ became abundantly clear to me when I got to college and had my first religion classes taught by Jesuits. And the nuns that taught us in elementary and high school were, by and large, even worse when it came to theological matters than the parish priests.

/ all-girl Catholic high school religion classes = learning about "the modern Catholic family"
// loved the intellectualism of the Jesuits, even as my new knowledge led me away from the church
/// laughed my butt off when I heard a Jesuit had become Pope, figuring that a lot of folks had no idea what kind of ride they were in for
//// liking Francis very much so far
 
2014-01-05 11:54:49 PM

PaulRB: FarkerSnow: Wake up sheeple! Do your own research. This is just his plan to get more vulnerable children to church because they're easier to molest.

The percentage of priests molesting children is no more (and arguably less) than the population in general (so, by your logic, keep ALL adults away from children?).  Does the Church often do the wrong thing when they detect a molesting priest?  Yes, that is the problem.


Welcome to Fark. Might want to invest in a troll detector.
 
2014-01-06 12:12:55 AM

PaulRB: Every non-religious type commenting about this Pope has showered his with praise.


Unsubstantiated carp.

He's part of the problem, not the solution - regardless of how vociferous his PR team is being of late.
 
2014-01-06 12:19:02 AM

Evil Canadian: My wife is a non-attending Catholic. We are same-sex married. She feels that she cannot attend her own church and they had let her down. Well, she was about ready to take the plunge and actually attend Midnight Mass this past Christmas, since the Pope says she is now a legitimate seeker of faith. However, our local parish priest is old, old fashioned and  old country. They actually put blurbs on their Christmas service times flyer that stated you must fast for an hour before Eucharist, but medication and water don't count. Also, that it is your obligation to attend services every week unless you are ill or dying.

That really turned her off - the fasting part is next to impossible for medical reasons, so I assume the priest would be happy to have her either eat something and stay non-comatose, but not take communion, or fast and end up getting last rites on the steps of the sanctuary?

So, as much as she would love to attend, to be a part of it again, whatever Francis is saying is definitely NOT hitting all local parishes, not yet anyhow.


All that stuff about attending weekly and fasting were taught.  It's frowned upon if you don't, and you have to confess to it.  Shame on that priest for wanting to restate the rules?  He's probably pointing out to the Christmas & Palm Sunday horde that it takes more than going to mass 2x a year to be a good Catholic.

I'll assume your wife is an insulin-dependent diabetic, as I can't envision any other illnesses that require you to eat something at least hourly.  Regarding the fasting, if there is medical need, doesn't the Church make exception?  Come to think of it, most parish priests will make exception given circumstances.  There is a legit need, and if she talked to the priest about her condition, he would probably get an OK from higher up if needed.  Or, go to anther RC church with better mass times.  Or, alternately, she can choose to not receive that mass.  Or have a Eucharistic Minister stop by the house after church some Sunday and give her communion, as they can do it around your wife's eating schedule.
 
2014-01-06 12:20:09 AM

nulluspixiusdemonica: PaulRB: Every non-religious type commenting about this Pope has showered his with praise.

Unsubstantiated carp.

He's part of the problem, not the solution - regardless of how vociferous his PR team is being of late.


What do you have against carp? Didn't like After a many summer dies the swan?
 
2014-01-06 12:25:54 AM

WippitGuud: What happens if he does all this other stuff you're asking for? People already think he's going to be assassinated for what he has done so far, trying to take on the rest of your church isn't exactly a cakewalk.


First, full disclosure:  I'm not a Catholic, but my dad's family is Catholic.

Let's face it, compared to previous popes (at least, the popes I've experienced, JP2 and Benedict), this guy really does feel much more like a man of the people.  The dude used to be a bouncer, and even now he sneaks out to be with and help the poor.   Like any big ship, you can't turn the Catholic church on a dime.  It'll take years of gentle nudging, IMHO, to put it on a better course.

I really hope, for the sake of the Catholic church's billion followers and all the societies they influence, that he continues in this direction, and lives a long, healthy life doing so.

For some reason, whenever I say "I hope Pope Francis dies of natural causes" to my family or a few close coworkers, they know exactly what I mean.  And I truly mean that.  Go Francis!

/atheist, but recognizes the role religion plays and will continue to play in society
 
2014-01-06 12:26:50 AM

techgeek07: I'm a child of two divorced catholic parents with the marriage annulled.  Not excommunicated.


Obviously you don't know about double secret excommunication.
 
2014-01-06 12:46:16 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Kope: Benevolent Misanthrope: But he's still excommunicated a priest for encouraging women's ordination

Most of what else you've written is wrong as well, but this needs addressed repeatedly: Reynolds was excommunicated for providing licit but invalid sacramental services in public without proper facilities to do so.

He was not excommunicated for his stance on women's ordination. He was excommunicated because he disobeyed his Bishop in a public way. Any priest who does that will get excommunicated, regardless of if their political and theological views are 100% in-line with the Pontiffs or not.

There are plenty of priests who vocally support women's ordination out there. They aren't getting excommunicated. Why? Because they aren't being stupid . . .

Ah.  So, which of those 3 reasons was the basis for his excommunication, again?

So, the other Catholics who have been blasting me on this are wrong, in that he didn't go off on his own, start a new church, and style himself a Bishop?  I mean, I can actually see if if he did that.  But if it's just a mater of being politically stupid, I wasn't aware that was a excommunicable offense.  And frankly, when repeat sexual offenders - incorrigible ones - are being allowed to stay in the Church and keep their ministries, I find it hard to spare sympathy for a guy who thinks it's more egregious to ordain women than it is to rape children.

But still - I hold to my point that Francis, nice a guy as he is and great a comunicator as he is, hasn't actually changed anything.


Even though this article states at the beginning he was excommunicated for being vocal about women's ordination, it contradicts itself later if you read the whole thing.  Key takeaways:  he resigned his position as pastor, held services while his ministry was suspended, and, even though he claims it isn't one, started his own church.

Here's a key quote from the home page of his new ministry (emphasis mine):

While in no way compromising our Catholic belief in the Eucharist, including the Real Presence, we do not restrict peoples' reception of Holy Communion on the grounds of their worthiness or theology.

Belief in transubstantiation is a prerequisite for receiving communion.  He was handing out the Eucharist according to his own rules, not Rome's.  This guy was begging to be excommunicated.  It's like saying you're a judge but you're only going to follow the laws you like when you hand down decisions.  His "surprise" at being excommunicated is either an act, or he didn't pay any attention in the seminary.  He knew full well he wasn't allowed to do what he was doing.  The actual excommunication order was for "Throwing away or retaining the Eucharist for a sacrilegious purpose.."  While other people may disagree, handing out the Eucharist when you aren't eligible to do while also handing it out to people who aren't eligible for it counts as a sacrilegious act.

If he had only spoke out about ordaining women, they probably would have been able to suspend him but not excommunicate him.  Since he boned up his priestly duties as well, he provided them everything they needed for excommunication.
 
2014-01-06 12:52:33 AM

Darth_Lukecash: The My Little Pony Killer: But what has he done lately with his pedophile priest committee? Any progress there?

No?

Pope orders Bishops to punish Pedophile Priests

As I've stated before: Pope is making changes... Baby steps.


Oh my gosh, he's talking a big game about it.

The same thing he was doing the previous time he addressed the matter. Baby steps, sure, but at least try to do something other than walk in place, eh?
 
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