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(Telegram)   Poverty rate has only dropped from 19% to 15% since Lyndon Johnson declared war 50 years ago, but it would be 271% without his heroic intervention   (telegram.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Lyndon Johnson, poverty line, intervention, private sector, Jason Furman, Roaring Twenties, cash assistance, real income  
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1187 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jan 2014 at 12:57 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-05 09:43:43 PM  

rewind2846: The rich guy that buys a bunch of derivatives and hedge funds and other financial instruments... what does he produce? Caviar farts?


There are many here in the Politics Tab who would kill you and your entire family just to be able to smell those caviar farts, rest assured.
 
2014-01-05 10:01:07 PM  
Mrtraveler01:
I've been told by right-wingers in the past that economic success in the 1950's and 60's doesn't count because Europe was still a crater left over from the war.

Funny - the only times I've heard that argument was from lefties who were trying to pretend that the 1950s sucked, and only looked good for that reason.

Never heard it from anyone on the right side of the aisle.
 
2014-01-05 10:18:54 PM  

cirby: Mrtraveler01:
I've been told by right-wingers in the past that economic success in the 1950's and 60's doesn't count because Europe was still a crater left over from the war.

Funny - the only times I've heard that argument was from lefties who were trying to pretend that the 1950s sucked, and only looked good for that reason.

Never heard it from anyone on the right side of the aisle.


So we can return to the same tax rates they had in the 1950's then?
 
2014-01-05 10:23:43 PM  
So the poverty rate has gone down by nearly a fourth?  And this is a bad result?
 
2014-01-05 10:40:09 PM  

bizzwire: We need more well-paying manufacturing jobs, like we used to have.I would pay a premium on shoes, clothing,and electronic tschotskes that were made in the USA.


Everybody says it, but nobody practices it. I hate to break the news to all the greedy-business-moved-jobs-to-China boneheads, but businesses moved to China because those who made things in the US couldn't sell them; the public wasn't buying them. I spent a few months selling TVs and other electronics back when Sharp still made their TVs in the US... they were just slightly higher priced and didn't sell well. Sharp now makes their TVs in China because they would be bankrupt and out of business if they didn't. So save your "race to the bottom" nonsense, the choice is: move production out of the US or go bankrupt; there is not a single realistic scenario that keeps high-paying manufacturing jobs here without also adding massive unemployment because nobody can afford to buy all the high-priced "mad in the US" stuff.
 
2014-01-05 10:42:55 PM  

cirby: Claiming success for TWoP in 1965 for a law passed in that year is pretty stupid.


Obviously, we should only take into account the years in which poverty went up -- because they prove your point.
 
2014-01-06 12:04:06 AM  

DrPainMD: So save your "race to the bottom" nonsense, the choice is: move production out of the US or go bankrupt; there is not a single realistic scenario that keeps high-paying manufacturing jobs here without also adding massive unemployment because nobody can afford to buy all the high-priced "mad in the US" stuff.


So what will you do when the standard of living (and salaries) of the foreign wage slaves you seem to love come close to our own? After all, the salaries of many American workers are either decreasing relative to purchasing power, decreasing in real dollars, or staying static... what will people like you do when you run out of other poorer, browner people to exploit?

That day is coming, and sooner than you think. The Chinese will be the first.
 
2014-01-06 01:09:12 AM  

rewind2846: DrPainMD: So save your "race to the bottom" nonsense, the choice is: move production out of the US or go bankrupt; there is not a single realistic scenario that keeps high-paying manufacturing jobs here without also adding massive unemployment because nobody can afford to buy all the high-priced "mad in the US" stuff.

So what will you do when the standard of living (and salaries) of the foreign wage slaves you seem to love come close to our own? After all, the salaries of many American workers are either decreasing relative to purchasing power, decreasing in real dollars, or staying static... what will people like you do when you run out of other poorer, browner people to exploit?

That day is coming, and sooner than you think. The Chinese will be the first.


There will always be poorer people to exploit. This quasi-racist idea that they have to be "browner" than the exploiters is simply an artifact of post-colonialism--there are plenty of wealthy Chinese and Japanese who are benefiting just as much off their "foreign wage slaves" as the American exploiters you seem to loathe. And your charming notion that jobs will magically move back into the US to provide American workers with better wages has been conclusively disproven repeatedly in the last decade or so.

This is a global economy now. Corporations don't exist to sell products made in America to Americans, not if they want to remain in business. There just aren't enough American buyers of consumer goods--even IF American wages were higher to compensate for returning production to America. Goods HAVE to be sold outside the country; that means making them where production is cheapest; that means (indirectly) increasing the standard of living of those workers. Isolationism can't work in a world where the Internet has no borders, and where to compete, a company has to keep a minimum of one eye on the bottom line.
 
2014-01-06 05:12:36 AM  

Mrtraveler01: cirby: Mrtraveler01:
I've been told by right-wingers in the past that economic success in the 1950's and 60's doesn't count because Europe was still a crater left over from the war.

Funny - the only times I've heard that argument was from lefties who were trying to pretend that the 1950s sucked, and only looked good for that reason.

Never heard it from anyone on the right side of the aisle.

So we can return to the same tax rates they had in the 1950's then?


Can we return to the same deductions we had in the 1950s then? And can we return to the social spending and safety net of the 1950s also?
 
2014-01-06 07:47:41 AM  

sarajlewis83: jigger: sarajlewis83: Catholic Paul Ryan and others of his ilk would be best served by looking into their own Bibles: the parable of the Good Samaritan and the story of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25 are excellent places to start. For all his 3 years of ministry, Jesus didn't say much at all concerning same-sex relationships, but He sure talked about those poors, and how all Christians are ordered to relate to them, quite a bit.

What did he say the government should do about it? Force everyone to tithe?

You know, funny thing about that? Jesus didn't say to help the poor by the work of expanded government services. He didn't say to hep the poor by an expansion of private charities. He simply said: help the poor. The least of these. The stranger on the side of the road. It's almost as if he was more concerned about the end result of his directive, and not so much about how it happened.

The good thing is, plenty of non-Christians also see a need to look out for those whom are more unfortunate. You don't need to follow Christ to see that a problem exists that needs solving. I'm merely saying that those who profess to follow Christ really shouldn't repeatedly find themselves opposed to one of His biggest directives by any means.


Jesus didn't advocate for government helping the poor at all. He told tax collectors to quit their jobs and follow him. I interpret this to mean that he wants us as individuals to choose to be good. We can't choose to be good if government tries to take over that role entirely. So a dollars to charity are better than dollars to government. Liberals don't like that because they can't control those dollars.
 
2014-01-06 10:47:07 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Isolationism can't work in a world where the Internet has no borders, and where to compete, a company has to keep a minimum of one eye on the bottom line.


It's not about "isolationism", it's about exploitation. Eventually the nations we euphemistically call the "third world" will want a piece of the first world, and the playing field will become a lot more level as a result. This will be a good thing, as the "race to the bottom" will end when the bottom is right under your feet. US corporations "keeping a minimum of one eye on the bottom line" will have to figure out other ways of meeting that bottom line which don't involve child labor and sweatshops. This is what's called "competition".

As for jobs moving back here... already there are some american manufacturers and companies that are bringing jobs back here due to increased energy and transportation costs, quality factors, and for IP and national security concerns. They learned that the push to send their business overseas in the short term has produced more long term problems than they realized.

Here:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bmoharrisbank/2012/12/17/why-outsourced- jo bs-are-returning-stateside/
http://www.businessinsider.com/manufacturing-jobs-returning-to-ameri ca -2013-2
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-stat es /120504/american-manufacturing-jobs-returning-outsourcing-reshoring
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47323840
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/28/why-call-center-job s- are-coming-back.html
http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/01/14/10156162-made-in-amer ic a-trend-against-outsourcing-brings-jobs-back-from-china?lite
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/22/small-us-manufacturers-st_n _1 619470.html
http://www.workforce.com/articles/bringing-the-jobs-back-home-how-re -s horing-is-coming-to-america

Google is your friend.
 
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