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(Telegram)   Poverty rate has only dropped from 19% to 15% since Lyndon Johnson declared war 50 years ago, but it would be 271% without his heroic intervention   (telegram.com) divider line 111
    More: Unlikely, Lyndon Johnson, poverty line, intervention, private sector, Jason Furman, Roaring Twenties, cash assistance, real income  
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1109 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jan 2014 at 12:57 PM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-05 12:10:47 PM  
I shudder to think what it would be without the social safety net.
 
2014-01-05 12:36:52 PM  
fta "Going forward, the biggest potential gains that could be made on poverty would be in raising market incomes," said Jason Furman, the chairman of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers.

Sooo... People are less likely to live in poverty if they make more money? That's some fine economics work, there, Chief.
 
2014-01-05 12:45:05 PM  

Notabunny: fta "Going forward, the biggest potential gains that could be made on poverty would be in raising market incomes," said Jason Furman, the chairman of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers.

Sooo... People are less likely to live in poverty if they make more money? That's some fine economics work, there, Chief.


I think he's talking about minimum wage.
 
2014-01-05 12:50:27 PM  
A quick read of the article and the author seems be harboring the delusion it's been a steady rate of decrease. Poverty rates are up from the historic lows under Ford and Carter, dropped a bit under Clinton, have been climbing since Bush got in the White House.

http://www.irp.wisc.edu/faqs/faq3/Figure1.png

/sorry no html, mobile
 
2014-01-05 12:59:40 PM  
that's disappointing news to the Wealthy.
 
2014-01-05 01:01:42 PM  
Divide and Conquer. happens to work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqW-Fv1eLCU     (some adult language)
 
2014-01-05 01:02:13 PM  

enry: Notabunny: fta "Going forward, the biggest potential gains that could be made on poverty would be in raising market incomes," said Jason Furman, the chairman of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers.

Sooo... People are less likely to live in poverty if they make more money? That's some fine economics work, there, Chief.

I think he's talking about minimum wage.


This is another good argument for Obama raising the minimum wage for federal employees. He could do it unilaterally w/o congress. "As of today, minimum wage for all federal employees is $20/hr. An annual COLA of not less than 2% will be added to the minimum wage to ensure it keeps pace with inflation." Bam. Done.
 
2014-01-05 01:02:46 PM  

NewportBarGuy: I shudder to think what it would be without the social safety net.


We would have more FREEDUMBS!111
 
2014-01-05 01:07:58 PM  
It's always the same. "We don't need a social safety net, we need to create jobs and create economic mobility!" and never a word about how to do that, except maybe "Cut taxes!"

Errr, that's in reference to Ryan's whining in TFA, not TFA itself.
 
2014-01-05 01:17:37 PM  
The biggest factor creating poverty is the erosion of the Dollar's buying power.  Wages have in no way kept up with real inflation over the past 40 years.
 
2014-01-05 01:18:21 PM  

Notabunny: enry: Notabunny: fta "Going forward, the biggest potential gains that could be made on poverty would be in raising market incomes," said Jason Furman, the chairman of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers.

Sooo... People are less likely to live in poverty if they make more money? That's some fine economics work, there, Chief.

I think he's talking about minimum wage.

This is another good argument for Obama raising the minimum wage for federal employees. He could do it unilaterally w/o congress. [cite please] "As of today, minimum wage for all federal employees is $20/hr. An annual COLA of not less than 2% will be added to the minimum wage to ensure it keeps pace with inflation." Bam. Done.


Actually IIRC the lowest federal worker now makes about 18K per year as a GS-1 step 1 and these are very few people. As a practical matter I think a full time federal worker on the very low end already makes at least about $10+ an hour. For many especially in cities like DC with high cost of living is this too low, yes! But then the judges in our federal court system are grossly underpaid compared to others at their experience level and responsibilities.
 
2014-01-05 01:21:02 PM  

sdd2000: Notabunny: enry: Notabunny: fta "Going forward, the biggest potential gains that could be made on poverty would be in raising market incomes," said Jason Furman, the chairman of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers.

Sooo... People are less likely to live in poverty if they make more money? That's some fine economics work, there, Chief.

I think he's talking about minimum wage.

This is another good argument for Obama raising the minimum wage for federal employees. He could do it unilaterally w/o congress. [cite please] "As of today, minimum wage for all federal employees is $20/hr. An annual COLA of not less than 2% will be added to the minimum wage to ensure it keeps pace with inflation." Bam. Done.

Actually IIRC the lowest federal worker now makes about 18K per year as a GS-1 step 1 and these are very few people. As a practical matter I think a full time federal worker on the very low end already makes at least about $10+ an hour. For many especially in cities like DC with high cost of living is this too low, yes! But then the judges in our federal court system are grossly underpaid compared to others at their experience level and responsibilities.


So some would see a small increase, and others would see their income double. Sounds like everybody would be happy.
 
2014-01-05 01:22:45 PM  
So?
 
2014-01-05 01:25:54 PM  

whither_apophis: A quick read of the article and the author seems be harboring the delusion it's been a steady rate of decrease. Poverty rates are up from the historic lows under Ford and Carter, dropped a bit under Clinton, have been climbing since Bush got in the White House.


You phrase it as though he never left.
 
2014-01-05 01:26:35 PM  
And yet there are those on the right who would still vilify him today to the point of pissing on his grave, even though all of them have family members who were helped by his domestic policies, if not themselves. The only reason they don't is because they think what he did in Vietnam was right, and that he should have bombed that country even harder.
 
2014-01-05 01:28:28 PM  

jjorsett: You phrase it as though he never left.


Sh*t on a carpet stinks even after you clean it up.
 
2014-01-05 01:29:30 PM  
Any time you call something, "The War On ..." you can count on it being eternal, from poverty to drugs to terror.
 
2014-01-05 01:31:00 PM  

rewind2846: jjorsett: You phrase it as though he never left.

Sh*t on a carpet stinks even after you clean it up.


So you're saying five years of Obama hasn't solved anything. We're in agreement there, at least.
 
2014-01-05 01:31:13 PM  
Just tax the rich and give all the nonworkers free shiat.

Bam.
Done.
 
2014-01-05 01:33:12 PM  

NewportBarGuy: I shudder to think what it would be without the social safety net.


I imagine something like a 3rd world cesspool, where the elderly peddle dying flowers to tourists and people who live in cobbled-together shanties bathe in filthy rivers.

After spending the last month in Sri Lanka, it's horrifying what happens to the poor when there is nothing to catch them when they're down.
 
2014-01-05 01:34:08 PM  

StrikitRich: The biggest factor creating poverty is the erosion of the Dollar's buying power.  Wages have in no way kept up with real inflation over the past 40 years.


Well, that's a true statement but only partially so. If wages had kept the same rate of inflation, then the Dollar's buying power would be irrelevant. Wages can be manipulated artificially through legislation and inflation is just a fact of modern life.

And yes, inflation is a just a fact of life - it existed before the creation of the Fed, so please be careful with the blame.
 
2014-01-05 01:35:52 PM  

jjorsett: rewind2846: jjorsett: You phrase it as though he never left.

Sh*t on a carpet stinks even after you clean it up.

So you're saying five years of Obama hasn't solved anything. We're in agreement there, at least.


You need to look up what the word "metaphor" means, dude.
Either that, or you're trollin on a sunday afternoon. (music by the Rascals)
 
2014-01-05 01:41:38 PM  
Index minimum wage to be just a percent or two above the poverty level eligibility for welfare for a family of 3. Make it state by state, so that way it's cost of living dependant, and not a blanket rate for the entire country. California would be higher than say, Alabama.

States would be able to set their own rules, as long as it meets these minimum requirements. So states rights still are there.

Meaning a person working full-time no longer qualifies for welfare, up to a certain extent of course.

So you have a spending cut by cutting welfare. Not by taking it away, but by allowing people to make enough not to rely on it.

You also have a revenue increase because more tax money is being collected from higher salaries.
 
2014-01-05 01:42:13 PM  
The disproportional distribution of the wealth generated from labor is the cause of this. The wealthiest among us are taking more and more of the pie, even while it gets bigger.
 
2014-01-05 01:47:16 PM  

Phil McKraken: StrikitRich: The biggest factor creating poverty is the erosion of the Dollar's buying power.  Wages have in no way kept up with real inflation over the past 40 years.

Well, that's a true statement but only partially so. If wages had kept the same rate of inflation, then the Dollar's buying power would be irrelevant. Wages can be manipulated artificially through legislation and inflation is just a fact of modern life.

And yes, inflation is a just a fact of life - it existed before the creation of the Fed, so please be careful with the blame.


His comment also seems to iimplicitly ignore the fact that all other major currencies have inflation as well, and implies only the dollar has seen a reduction.
 
2014-01-05 01:49:10 PM  

StrikitRich: The biggest factor creating poverty is the erosion of the Dollar's buying power.  Wages have in no way kept up with real inflation over the past 40 years.


Well.  CEO wages have.  As a matter of fact, the only redistribution of wealth since he enactment of the "Great Society" has been an increase in the divide between executive pay and worker pay, wth execs outpacing inflation and workers lagging.
 
2014-01-05 01:50:16 PM  
Catholic Paul Ryan and others of his ilk would be best served by looking into their own Bibles: the parable of the Good Samaritan and the story of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25 are excellent places to start. For all his 3 years of ministry, Jesus didn't say much at all concerning same-sex relationships, but He sure talked about those poors, and how all Christians are ordered to relate to them, quite a bit.
 
2014-01-05 01:52:06 PM  

Phil McKraken: And yes, inflation is a just a fact of life - it existed before the creation of the Fed, so please be careful with the blame.


http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

Yeah, but...go here and input 1800 and 1900.

What cost $100 in 1800 would cost $48.94 in 1900.

Then put in 1900 and 2000.

What cost $100 in 1900 would cost $2062.86 in 2000.
 
2014-01-05 01:52:14 PM  

Phil McKraken: StrikitRich: The biggest factor creating poverty is the erosion of the Dollar's buying power.  Wages have in no way kept up with real inflation over the past 40 years.

Well, that's a true statement but only partially so. If wages had kept the same rate of inflation, then the Dollar's buying power would be irrelevant. Wages can be manipulated artificially through legislation and inflation is just a fact of modern life.

And yes, inflation is a just a fact of life - it existed before the creation of the Fed, so please be careful with the blame.


Didn't blame anyone specifically in my comment, but being born in the 60s and coming to age in the 70s I vividly remember families that got by with one bread winner suddenly forced to have 2 working parents to keep up.  Of course getting out of school 2 or 3 hours before the parents got home gave us lots (maybe too much?) of time for fun and mischief.
 
2014-01-05 01:53:04 PM  

sarajlewis83: Catholic Paul Ryan and others of his ilk would be best served by looking into their own Bibles: the parable of the Good Samaritan and the story of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25 are excellent places to start. For all his 3 years of ministry, Jesus didn't say much at all concerning same-sex relationships, but He sure talked about those poors, and how all Christians are ordered to relate to them, quite a bit.


What did he say the government should do about it? Force everyone to tithe?
 
2014-01-05 01:55:00 PM  
Also, this graph is obligatory in this thread.

www.intellectualtakeout.org
 
2014-01-05 01:56:39 PM  

jigger: sarajlewis83: Catholic Paul Ryan and others of his ilk would be best served by looking into their own Bibles: the parable of the Good Samaritan and the story of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25 are excellent places to start. For all his 3 years of ministry, Jesus didn't say much at all concerning same-sex relationships, but He sure talked about those poors, and how all Christians are ordered to relate to them, quite a bit.

What did he say the government should do about it? Force everyone to tithe?


Who's picture is on the dollar?

Render unto caesar...
 
2014-01-05 01:58:52 PM  

jigger: Also, this graph is obligatory in this thread.

[www.intellectualtakeout.org image 586x398]


I remember those days.  Before Johnson, black people never had the blues.  Blind Willie McTell had a hit single called "Don't Worry, Be Happy."  I love that song.
 
2014-01-05 01:59:56 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Well. CEO wages have. As a matter of fact, the only redistribution of wealth since he enactment of the "Great Society" has been an increase in the divide between executive pay and worker pay, wth execs outpacing inflation and workers lagging.


Which is as God intended.
 
2014-01-05 01:59:56 PM  
US Population in 1963: 189,241,798
  19% in 1963=35,995,941 people living in poverty

US Population in 2010: 308,745,538
  19% in 2010=58,661,652 people living in poverty.
  15% in 2010=46,311,830 people living in poverty.

So, we have kept 12,349,821 people out of poverty by reducing the poverty rate by 4%. Sounds great to me!
 
2014-01-05 02:00:33 PM  

El Pachuco: His comment also seems to iimplicitly ignore the fact that all other major currencies have inflation as well, and implies only the dollar has seen a reduction.


And what does the fact that other currencies have also inflated have to do with US wages?  Are German wages directly tied to US inflation?  Australian?  Brazilian? I'm paid in US Dollars, not Rand, Pounds, Pesos or Marks.
 
2014-01-05 02:01:06 PM  

jigger: Yeah, but...go here and input 1800 and 1900.


Deflation is a very bad thing.
 
2014-01-05 02:01:32 PM  

StrikitRich: I vividly remember families that got by with one bread winner suddenly forced to have 2 working parents to keep up


And when the income of two working parents wasn't enough, the next necessary action to stay afloat was taking on debt, distributing even more money upwards.
 
2014-01-05 02:01:42 PM  

jigger: sarajlewis83: Catholic Paul Ryan and others of his ilk would be best served by looking into their own Bibles: the parable of the Good Samaritan and the story of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25 are excellent places to start. For all his 3 years of ministry, Jesus didn't say much at all concerning same-sex relationships, but He sure talked about those poors, and how all Christians are ordered to relate to them, quite a bit.

What did he say the government should do about it? Force everyone to tithe?


Ahhh, jigger.If people like you are Christians, who'd want to be one?
 
2014-01-05 02:02:38 PM  

Notabunny: enry: Notabunny: fta "Going forward, the biggest potential gains that could be made on poverty would be in raising market incomes," said Jason Furman, the chairman of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers.

Sooo... People are less likely to live in poverty if they make more money? That's some fine economics work, there, Chief.

I think he's talking about minimum wage.

This is another good argument for Obama raising the minimum wage for federal employees. He could do it unilaterally w/o congress. "As of today, minimum wage for all federal employees is $20/hr. An annual COLA of not less than 2% will be added to the minimum wage to ensure it keeps pace with inflation." Bam. Done.


I wonder if he can do that for government contractors as well.  Something wrong about an employer taking my tax dollars to pay their employee's subpar wages.
 
2014-01-05 02:04:21 PM  
The War on Poverty was actually making some real progress before it was summarily and suddenly cancelled in 1980.

There's been no real effort to re-address the problem ever since.
 
2014-01-05 02:04:24 PM  

rewind2846: And yet there are those on the right who would still vilify him today to the point of pissing on his grave, even though all of them have family members who were helped by his domestic policies, if not themselves. The only reason they don't is because they think what he did in Vietnam was right, and that he should have bombed that country even harder.


I think if you repealed one of the most important domestic policies (Medicare) most of them wouldn't vilify him, because they would be dead.
 
2014-01-05 02:07:28 PM  

jigger: Also, this graph is obligatory in this thread.


Gee, what happened in 1980?
 
2014-01-05 02:08:01 PM  

jigger: What did he say the government should do about it? Force everyone to tithe?


Forced participation at the point of fire and brimstone for all eternity to your head.
 
2014-01-05 02:10:33 PM  

jigger: sarajlewis83: Catholic Paul Ryan and others of his ilk would be best served by looking into their own Bibles: the parable of the Good Samaritan and the story of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25 are excellent places to start. For all his 3 years of ministry, Jesus didn't say much at all concerning same-sex relationships, but He sure talked about those poors, and how all Christians are ordered to relate to them, quite a bit.

What did he say the government should do about it? Force everyone to tithe?


well I'm not a christian anymore, but this isn't even hard. Render unto ceasar what is ceasars. He would be thrilled to know that so many people who are in elected positions got there by claiming to follow his name and actions.  Then he would ask what they were doing with the collected taxes, and if those actions were what he would do. See, he was a lot more focused on the actual helping part, and less about who was doing it and how it was done. It's about who has the resources to help, and why they were doing it. He figured you'd be smart enough to figure that out.
 
2014-01-05 02:14:26 PM  

EmmaLou: NewportBarGuy: I shudder to think what it would be without the social safety net.

I imagine something like a 3rd world cesspool, where the elderly peddle dying flowers to tourists and people who live in cobbled-together shanties bathe in filthy rivers.

After spending the last month in Sri Lanka, it's horrifying what happens to the poor when there is nothing to catch them when they're down.


The poors should simply be more bootstrappy and buy lobbyists, judges, and politicians in order to make federal economic policies which favor them for decades. It works for the rich.
 
2014-01-05 02:14:59 PM  

jigger: sarajlewis83: Catholic Paul Ryan and others of his ilk would be best served by looking into their own Bibles: the parable of the Good Samaritan and the story of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25 are excellent places to start. For all his 3 years of ministry, Jesus didn't say much at all concerning same-sex relationships, but He sure talked about those poors, and how all Christians are ordered to relate to them, quite a bit.

What did he say the government should do about it? Force everyone to tithe?


"Whose image is this? And whose inscription?"

...I'll let you read your Bible from there.
 
2014-01-05 02:17:39 PM  
that's fantastic! Poverty is down by 5% since 1964!

OTOH, the number of Billionaires has increased about 26,000% since 1964.
 
2014-01-05 02:22:30 PM  

jigger: sarajlewis83: Catholic Paul Ryan and others of his ilk would be best served by looking into their own Bibles: the parable of the Good Samaritan and the story of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25 are excellent places to start. For all his 3 years of ministry, Jesus didn't say much at all concerning same-sex relationships, but He sure talked about those poors, and how all Christians are ordered to relate to them, quite a bit.

What did he say the government should do about it? Force everyone to tithe?


You know, funny thing about that? Jesus didn't say to help the poor by the work of expanded government services. He didn't say to hep the poor by an expansion of private charities. He simply said: help the poor. The least of these. The stranger on the side of the road. It's almost as if he was more concerned about the end result of his directive, and not so much about how it happened.

The good thing is, plenty of non-Christians also see a need to look out for those whom are more unfortunate. You don't need to follow Christ to see that a problem exists that needs solving. I'm merely saying that those who profess to follow Christ really shouldn't repeatedly find themselves opposed to one of His biggest directives by any means.
 
2014-01-05 02:25:38 PM  

Job Creator: Notabunny: enry: Notabunny: fta "Going forward, the biggest potential gains that could be made on poverty would be in raising market incomes," said Jason Furman, the chairman of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers.

Sooo... People are less likely to live in poverty if they make more money? That's some fine economics work, there, Chief.

I think he's talking about minimum wage.

This is another good argument for Obama raising the minimum wage for federal employees. He could do it unilaterally w/o congress. "As of today, minimum wage for all federal employees is $20/hr. An annual COLA of not less than 2% will be added to the minimum wage to ensure it keeps pace with inflation." Bam. Done.

I wonder if he can do that for government contractors as well.  Something wrong about an employer taking my tax dollars to pay their employee's subpar wages.


I don't think so. But the idea is that a higher federal minimum wage would be a catalyst for higher wages elsewhere. Here comes the science: Employers offer better wages/benefits/conditions in order to retain their employees who are leaving to the higher-wage federal government.
 
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