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(Mirror.co.uk)   British TV star opens alcohol-free neighborhood pub for recovering alkies so they don't wind up having nothing to do but go to meetings 16 times a day   (mirror.co.uk) divider line 36
    More: Interesting, Coronation Street, alcoholics, pubs, meetings  
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1706 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 05 Jan 2014 at 2:42 PM (14 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



36 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-05 02:11:18 PM
So a pub-like cafe?  I'm fine with it.  One of the big reasons that I go down to my local is the social aspect.
 
2014-01-05 02:47:19 PM
Good for him.  They need to serve a lot of pork products too to keep the muslims away
 
2014-01-05 02:51:41 PM

JasonOfOrillia: So a pub-like cafe?  I'm fine with it.  One of the big reasons that I go down to my local is the social aspect.


Yes, but sober you'll realize they're a bunch of unlikable slobs with not so much as a single original thought between them.
 
2014-01-05 02:51:54 PM
That sounds great.
I think the headline hit the nail on the head too.
 
2014-01-05 02:53:43 PM
Most pubs are intolerable sober.
Also without the high markup profit margin on well drinks, how can they stay in business?
 
2014-01-05 03:08:12 PM

Leader O'Cola: Most pubs are intolerable sober.
Also without the high markup profit margin on well drinks, how can they stay in business?


Are you kidding? They charge $2.00 for a coke or cup of coffee that costs them ten cents.
 
2014-01-05 03:09:21 PM
As someone who just got home from an AA meeting I don't understand this. Why can't these people just go to a restaurant and not drink. Don't sit at the bar and be normal. While AA has many positives, many of the people at the meeting are nuts and I would never imagine being in a social setting with them.
 
2014-01-05 03:27:28 PM

frozenhotchocolate: As someone who just got home from an AA meeting I don't understand this. Why can't these people just go to a restaurant and not drink. Don't sit at the bar and be normal. While AA has many positives, many of the people at the meeting are nuts and I would never imagine being in a social setting with them.


THIS! I could not agree more. About 5 percent are pretty cool...........
The rest might not drink anymore, but are still bats(#t crazy.
 
2014-01-05 03:28:02 PM

frozenhotchocolate: As someone who just got home from an AA meeting I don't understand this. Why can't these people just go to a restaurant and not drink. Don't sit at the bar and be normal. While AA has many positives, many of the people at the meeting are nuts and I would never imagine being in a social setting with them.


DRTA but as someone who, up until 4 days ago, drank about 3/4 of a fifth of 151 EVERY night for at least a year and  a half,  I think this is a great idea. I'm not a meeting kind of person, and most of my problems are white people problems, so I'm not going to go to some meeting every night. An alcohol free pub would be awesome. Have Karaoke, bands, everything a bar has, except booze.  My option right now is sitting at home smoking pot and binge watching X Files.
CSB time: I was scared sober the other night. I damaged my liver from mixing alcohol and antibiotics two and a half years ago, spent a week in the hospital and was off work for two months. I Started drinking again 6 or 8 months after I went back to work and my liver was completely healed and got to the point where I was dosing my sodas with a bit of Everclear by 10 in the morning at work just to keep the shakes away and to keep my shiat together.
Last Thursday night I woke up feeling horrible, went to work, and had to leave an hour after I got there. I was sure my liver had given out. Turned out it was only the flu or some other bug (evidently, because I'm feeling 70% better). IT was a wakeup call though. I'm going to wait a month or two to completely dry out and then just enjoy a few micro brews or a bit of Bourbon here and there. No more drinking to get drunk for me.
 
2014-01-05 03:34:24 PM
What drove me out of AA after a couple of months (besides AA itself) were the people in the program. One night I had a breakthrough and realized I was spending time with people I wouldn't be able to stand back in my drinking days yet I'm spending my time in church basements with you sober. That said, the decision to flirt with drinking behaviors, lifting a glass in pubs rather than going for a coffee, is theirs alone.

And not to do anybody's inventory for them, but honestly, it's rare you listen to someone normal talk and think, 'Y'know, in your case, alcohol honestly sounds like the LEAST of your issues." It was pretty much a daily thing in the city where I live. And AA is voluntary here, never court-ordered.

/ sober three+ years
// you have to find your own path
/// then you gotta walk that motherf*cker every single day
 
2014-01-05 03:35:12 PM
"Last Thursday night Friday morning I woke up feeling horrible" FTFM
 
2014-01-05 03:40:35 PM

bingethinker: Leader O'Cola: Most pubs are intolerable sober.
Also without the high markup profit margin on well drinks, how can they stay in business?

Are you kidding? They charge $2.00 for a coke or cup of coffee that costs them ten cents.


yeh, that $1.90 profit (on a good margin) is not going to cover operating costs of someone occupuing a bar seat for 4 hours.  However 3-4 mixed drinks at a mere 90% markup and $5.00 gross profit each will.
 
2014-01-05 03:43:07 PM

nitroglycerine: Last Thursday night I woke up feeling horrible, went to work, and had to leave an hour after I got there. I was sure my liver had given out. Turned out it was only the flu or some other bug (evidently, because I'm feeling 70% better). IT was a wakeup call though. I'm going to wait a month or two to completely dry out and then just enjoy a few micro brews or a bit of Bourbon here and there. No more drinking to get drunk for me.


Hate to be a Debbie Downer, but having been sober for six years now (and also not being a meeting person) and who went through some of the stages you describe - no.

No you cannot do that. You cannot "enjoy a few micro brews or a bit of Bourbon." I thought that too. Every alcoholic does.

If you attempt to do that, you are going to farking die. You, my friend, cannot drink. Period. And I hope and pray you come to realize that.
 
2014-01-05 03:48:06 PM

nitroglycerine: frozenhotchocolate: As someone who just got home from an AA meeting I don't understand this. Why can't these people just go to a restaurant and not drink. Don't sit at the bar and be normal. While AA has many positives, many of the people at the meeting are nuts and I would never imagine being in a social setting with them.

DRTA but as someone who, up until 4 days ago, drank about 3/4 of a fifth of 151 EVERY night for at least a year and  a half,  I think this is a great idea. I'm not a meeting kind of person, and most of my problems are white people problems, so I'm not going to go to some meeting every night. An alcohol free pub would be awesome. Have Karaoke, bands, everything a bar has, except booze.  My option right now is sitting at home smoking pot and binge watching X Files.
CSB time: I was scared sober the other night. I damaged my liver from mixing alcohol and antibiotics two and a half years ago, spent a week in the hospital and was off work for two months. I Started drinking again 6 or 8 months after I went back to work and my liver was completely healed and got to the point where I was dosing my sodas with a bit of Everclear by 10 in the morning at work just to keep the shakes away and to keep my shiat together.
Last Thursday night I woke up feeling horrible, went to work, and had to leave an hour after I got there. I was sure my liver had given out. Turned out it was only the flu or some other bug (evidently, because I'm feeling 70% better). IT was a wakeup call though. I'm going to wait a month or two to completely dry out and then just enjoy a few micro brews or a bit of Bourbon here and there. No more drinking to get drunk for me.


I suppose meeting are not for everyone. As far as white people problems being too petty for AA I don't understand. I am a year and a half sober and while my life is half way bearable today, getting sober was without a doubt the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. I never had a DUI, lost a job or had people trying to get me sober, hell I've donated blood every two months for the past ten years since I was seventeen. Wanna hear about white people problems, oh I got em. I am not religious or spiritual at all but the meetings have helped a lot, just to be around people with similar life expirences. Being in a bar/pub environment dancing and singing I don't think will be all too helpful in addressing people's problems which led them to drink with such excess in the past. Nor will it teach people to handle situations that newly sober people expirence.
 
2014-01-05 03:59:42 PM

r1niceboy: JasonOfOrillia: So a pub-like cafe?  I'm fine with it.  One of the big reasons that I go down to my local is the social aspect.

Yes, but sober you'll realize they're a bunch of unlikable slobs with not so much as a single original thought between them.


I realize that when drunk but I tolerate it just for the human contact.  The booze does make it easier.
 
2014-01-05 04:11:44 PM
Sometimes I drink, sometimes I don't.
 
2014-01-05 04:18:34 PM
nitroglycerine:
My option right now is sitting at home smoking pot and binge watching X Files.... IT was a wakeup call though. I'm going to wait a month or two to completely dry out and then just enjoy a few micro brews or a bit of Bourbon here and there. No more drinking to get drunk for me.

You can't drink so you're going to smoke pot until you can drink again? Why do you have to be intoxicated? I would suggest going to a therapist to sort out why you don't want to be sober.
 
2014-01-05 04:35:49 PM

JasonOfOrillia: realize that when drunk but I tolerate it just for the human contact. The booze does make it easier.


And booze works the opposite way for a lot of alcoholics, like me. It's been 25 years since I knew what beer cost at a bar, and a lot of that period I was gently numbing myself on an hourly basis, running my personal, high-volume bar, often out of my pickup truck and shed. It was a nice numb, no socialization welcome.
 
2014-01-05 04:42:16 PM

RassilonsExWife: nitroglycerine: Last Thursday night I woke up feeling horrible, went to work, and had to leave an hour after I got there. I was sure my liver had given out. Turned out it was only the flu or some other bug (evidently, because I'm feeling 70% better). IT was a wakeup call though. I'm going to wait a month or two to completely dry out and then just enjoy a few micro brews or a bit of Bourbon here and there. No more drinking to get drunk for me.

Hate to be a Debbie Downer, but having been sober for six years now (and also not being a meeting person) and who went through some of the stages you describe - no.

No you cannot do that. You cannot "enjoy a few micro brews or a bit of Bourbon." I thought that too. Every alcoholic does.

If you attempt to do that, you are going to farking die. You, my friend, cannot drink. Period. And I hope and pray you come to realize that.


In a nutshell: this is what's f*cked up about AA.
 
2014-01-05 04:55:55 PM

markfara: In a nutshell: this is what's f*cked up about AA.


Fortuntely in the addictions field, abstinence has been set aside for harm reduction. I fall off the wagon tonight, it's my job to stop it and get back on ASAP. It doesn't mean all my sobriety is vanished and I'm a failure, I hear enough of that in my head. Get sober, learn a lesson, add another trigger to the book and get on with things. It's a slip - Sobriety Lost Its Priority, not a license to have a single more drink let alone 40.

Damage control makes you responsible for your decisions. Abstinence-based programs punish them with a back-to-day-one attitude. And that was my issue with AA in a nutshell: go a year and get a cake because we did it! If you fail, you fail alone and BTW you also failed the program. fark that, like I hadn't spent my time disappointing everyone else for 20 years?
 
2014-01-05 05:02:33 PM
A place where you can go to drink and hang out, but there's no alcohol being served?

There are already three names for this:

1. Starbucks
2. Orange Julius
3. a soda fountain

I miss soda fountains. They've all closed around here.
 
2014-01-05 05:45:32 PM
AA is for quiters
 
2014-01-05 06:16:04 PM

Leader O'Cola: bingethinker: Leader O'Cola: Most pubs are intolerable sober.
Also without the high markup profit margin on well drinks, how can they stay in business?

Are you kidding? They charge $2.00 for a coke or cup of coffee that costs them ten cents.

yeh, that $1.90 profit (on a good margin) is not going to cover operating costs of someone occupuing a bar seat for 4 hours.  However 3-4 mixed drinks at a mere 90% markup and $5.00 gross profit each will.


If you can nurse a cup of coffee for four hours, good for you.
 
2014-01-05 06:42:41 PM

Bedstead Polisher: nitroglycerine:
My option right now is sitting at home smoking pot and binge watching X Files.... IT was a wakeup call though. I'm going to wait a month or two to completely dry out and then just enjoy a few micro brews or a bit of Bourbon here and there. No more drinking to get drunk for me.

You can't drink so you're going to smoke pot until you can drink again? Why do you have to be intoxicated? I would suggest going to a therapist to sort out why you don't want to be sober.


Some people self medicate. I honestly suspect this is the cause of alcoholism in my family. Though my depression was chalked up to PMDD, I strongly suspect relatives have suffered a similar form of anxiety/depression because drinking in the evening when it's the worst is one of the few things that makes it survivable. Which allows people to self medicate just enough to continue in a really shiatty form of misery.

Fortunately I don't drink except very very rarely because of the family history of alcoholism. (Also on the other side of my family but it's more of a 'they're just drunks' sort of thing). The two forms that take place in my family are: you die relatively quickly and young. Most don't live much past 50 with this type, and some go MUCH sooner. Drink themselves to death. Stroke, massive organ failure, etc. Other kind drink almost the same way, but their constitution can handle it, so they live another 20-40 years as miserable farks.

My family is very biased against mental health stuff and against a lot of medicine, and def against psychotropic meds. I've been very open with them continually on how bad it was (which no one really knew, I didn't talk about it and still don't actually enjoy talking about it on any level. It is super uncomfy, but I do it b/c I want to help) and how much the meds help.

Not everyone who drinks or abuses drugs to excess is self medicating. But I suspect a fark of a lot are. I'm glad I didn't crawl in a bottle, primarily due to what I saw it do to others and the ppl who loved them and friends who actively helped. But I wish to hell I had been on an SSRI twenty years ago. Not even for the 'my life would be different/better' but purely for the not going through the unnecessary mental anguish I suffered.

ANyhoo, YMMV, and best of luck. I'm not a believer in the 12 step program, but I have relatives in it who have seemingly benefited greatly. Whatever helps them.
 
2014-01-05 07:11:16 PM

frozenhotchocolate: As someone who just got home from an AA meeting I don't understand this. Why can't these people just go to a restaurant and not drink. Don't sit at the bar and be normal. While AA has many positives, many of the people at the meeting are nuts and I would never imagine being in a social setting with them.


Simply because they accept no power above them.

Get back with us in 15 years and give us an update on your meetings. Why can't you just drink like a normal person?
 
2014-01-05 07:24:59 PM

Snowrise: markfara: In a nutshell: this is what's f*cked up about AA.

Fortuntely in the addictions field, abstinence has been set aside for harm reduction. I fall off the wagon tonight, it's my job to stop it and get back on ASAP. It doesn't mean all my sobriety is vanished and I'm a failure, I hear enough of that in my head. Get sober, learn a lesson, add another trigger to the book and get on with things. It's a slip - Sobriety Lost Its Priority, not a license to have a single more drink let alone 40.

Damage control makes you responsible for your decisions. Abstinence-based programs punish them with a back-to-day-one attitude. And that was my issue with AA in a nutshell: go a year and get a cake because we did it! If you fail, you fail alone and BTW you also failed the program. fark that, like I hadn't spent my time disappointing everyone else for 20 years?


Based on AA's definition, if you decide to quit drinking and go the rest of your long life completely dry, you are still a drunk.  If you attend regular AA meetings but go on a bender every year, you are a recovering alcoholic.

I also have an issue with their entire "you can't do anything" attitude of their Al Anon subgroup.  This attitude caused my (ex)wife to do absolutely nothing about her teenage daughter's drinking and drug use.  I may not be able to do anything about a drunk adult, but I have a legal and a moral responsibility to attempt to intervene with my stepdaughter.
 
2014-01-05 07:37:23 PM

StoPPeRmobile: frozenhotchocolate: As someone who just got home from an AA meeting I don't understand this. Why can't these people just go to a restaurant and not drink. Don't sit at the bar and be normal. While AA has many positives, many of the people at the meeting are nuts and I would never imagine being in a social setting with them.

Simply because they accept no power above them.

Get back with us in 15 years and give us an update on your meetings. Why can't you just drink like a normal person?


AA for me is what I have made it. I go to two maybe three meeting a week and outside of the meeting have no contact with people in AA. I completely understand how people that havn't been to very many meetings if any can come to broad conclusions about the program. Ultimately AA encourages people to be good citizens and treat others with kindness and respect. As to why I can't drink like a normal person? I am not sure. But I never did, so I probably never will.
 
2014-01-05 08:32:03 PM
Lady Indica:
I think we may have interacted in these threads before. My mother's family has a hushed history of alcoholism/addiction. Unfortunately I got to see my mother drink herself to death. Sometime in the last 10 years she got to the point where she didn't know how to deal with anything other than to drink. The fact that she couldn't stop drinking didn't help her depression, it was a vicious cycle. She was a good person, it's a shame that addiction took over.

You and I have the similar feelings on drinking insofar as we've seen what it can do and we know the strong hold it has, so I minimize my drinking to social situations only (and I'm not a very social person).
 
2014-01-05 09:23:56 PM

Leader O'Cola: bingethinker: Leader O'Cola: Most pubs are intolerable sober.
Also without the high markup profit margin on well drinks, how can they stay in business?

Are you kidding? They charge $2.00 for a coke or cup of coffee that costs them ten cents.

yeh, that $1.90 profit (on a good margin) is not going to cover operating costs of someone occupuing a bar seat for 4 hours.  However 3-4 mixed drinks at a mere 90% markup and $5.00 gross profit each will.


I read the article. It seems like turning a profit is not a concern here.
 
2014-01-06 12:52:02 AM
Sounds to me like a support group for a bunch of quiters.
 
2014-01-06 08:25:26 AM

frozenhotchocolate: As someone who just got home from an AA meeting I don't understand this. Why can't these people just go to a restaurant and not drink. Don't sit at the bar and be normal. While AA has many positives, many of the people at the meeting are nuts and I would never imagine being in a social setting with them.


The crazy people are what makes AA meetings so entertaining
 
2014-01-06 08:35:49 AM
AA: Where a bunch of people smoke half a pack of cigarettes outside, consume 2 to 5 cups of coffee once inside, and boast how they've overcome their chemical dependency.
 
2014-01-06 09:28:19 AM

Snowrise: That said, the decision to flirt with drinking behaviors, lifting a glass in pubs rather than going for a coffee, is theirs alone.


nitroglycerine: DRTA but as someone who, up until 4 days ago, drank about 3/4 of a fifth of 151 EVERY night for at least a year and a half, I think this is a great idea... I'm going to wait a month or two to completely dry out and then just enjoy a few micro brews or a bit of Bourbon here and there. No more drinking to get drunk for me.


Here's why a non-alcoholic bar for alcoholics is a bad idea. There's truth to the saying that alcoholics are never "cured".  It's a pretty established phenomenon in behavior/addiction science.  You learn to associate the ENVIRONMENTAL CUES with drinking.  Old friends, old hangouts, etc become things that pretty much force you in to relapse. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_reactivity ). The reward pathway of the brain starts to light up even when you only SEE/HEAR the cues - but when you don't get the expected reward (drink), you wind up going in to a state of depression.  (It's called "prediction error". I don't have any single good link for it, but google works well).  So yeah, an alcoholic passing by a bar, or hanging out in one, is gonna have a shiatty day if they don't get that drink, and they'll have a shiatty day if they do.  Change the environment to make things work.
 
2014-01-06 12:55:33 PM
AA has been around since the early 50's and I'm pretty sure the "AA is for quitters" joke has been around longer than that.
 
2014-01-06 01:17:14 PM

ThatGuyOverThere: Snowrise: That said, the decision to flirt with drinking behaviors, lifting a glass in pubs rather than going for a coffee, is theirs alone.

nitroglycerine: DRTA but as someone who, up until 4 days ago, drank about 3/4 of a fifth of 151 EVERY night for at least a year and a half, I think this is a great idea... I'm going to wait a month or two to completely dry out and then just enjoy a few micro brews or a bit of Bourbon here and there. No more drinking to get drunk for me.

Here's why a non-alcoholic bar for alcoholics is a bad idea. There's truth to the saying that alcoholics are never "cured".  It's a pretty established phenomenon in behavior/addiction science.  You learn to associate the ENVIRONMENTAL CUES with drinking.  Old friends, old hangouts, etc become things that pretty much force you in to relapse. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_reactivity ). The reward pathway of the brain starts to light up even when you only SEE/HEAR the cues - but when you don't get the expected reward (drink), you wind up going in to a state of depression.  (It's called "prediction error". I don't have any single good link for it, but google works well).  So yeah, an alcoholic passing by a bar, or hanging out in one, is gonna have a shiatty day if they don't get that drink, and they'll have a shiatty day if they do.  Change the environment to make things work.


And here's why it's a good idea: Sometimes you get lonely. Cafes and the Orange Julius that have been mentioned are not places where a lone person can go and wind up chatting with a stranger. That type of thing happens at bars. If you walk into a sober bar, there's a decent chance that you might talk to someone who will cheer you up.
 
2014-01-06 01:22:46 PM
Wish my roomate would quit. I stopped going out with her because she couldnt go out have a few drinks and hang out. She had to get shiat faced drunk and obnoxious. I left her at bars before because I was ready to leave and she was busy being a party girl and I even told her I was leaving. She though I was bluffing.
 
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