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(BBC)   Cuban car buyers in shock at foreign car prices that just went on the market, finally realize that it's not 1959   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 56
    More: Obvious, Cuban, President Raul Castro, used cars  
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8921 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jan 2014 at 11:34 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-04 09:41:53 AM
If Uncle Sam mandated something like a Chevy Silverado should cost $125,000, we'd be in shock too. Their wealthier types won't be for long if they fall for this.
 
2014-01-04 11:36:49 AM

edmo: If Uncle Sam mandated something like a Chevy Silverado should cost $125,000, we'd be in shock too. Their wealthier types won't be for long if they fall for this.

Except a shiat Kia goes for like 50k.
 
2014-01-04 11:38:22 AM
Joo got eet, mang!
 
2014-01-04 11:41:13 AM
The only people who are going to be able to afford these are black marketeers, so the government gets to capture their ill-begotten wealth and spend it on education and health care. And the black marketeer gets a cool ride. Win-win.
 
2014-01-04 11:42:02 AM
Probably all to make it sound like Castro is saying "Look, you guys wanted normalized relations with the West.  Here, buy a car!  Oh, too much? Well get used to it!  This is how it is and will only get worse with the West involved here.  Oh, you rather we go back to how it was before?  Oh, OK then..."
 
2014-01-04 11:46:35 AM
31.media.tumblr.com

"you think you hate it now, jefe, but wait til you drive it"
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-04 11:49:09 AM

edmo: If Uncle Sam mandated something like a Chevy Silverado should cost $125,000, we'd be in shock too. Their wealthier types won't be for long if they fall for this.


They do in other countries.  Many countries have very high duty on imported cars to support their domestic manufacturers.  In Mexico there is a 100% duty on new cars, so if you saw someone driving a new Corvette with Mexican plates you knew they were loaded, and that's how they show it.
 
2014-01-04 11:50:42 AM
Don't worry, once Cubans catch up to 1979 their teenagers will be all happy and fancy free as they hang out at the convenience store.

media.heavy.com

/though there might be a slight problem of it apparently being 1979 and having a pinball machine in the corner of the store that wasn't built until 1993
 
2014-01-04 11:51:24 AM
Everyone knows the standard of luxury cars in Latin America is the Adobe.

l.yimg.com
 
2014-01-04 11:53:10 AM
Since Colombia and Cuba have no trade embargos I am going to start shipping over the Renault Quattro, for only 20k USD.  The car used in Romancing the Stone.

cars-list-db.com


Interior

cars-list-db.com
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-04 11:57:31 AM

vpb: edmo: If Uncle Sam mandated something like a Chevy Silverado should cost $125,000, we'd be in shock too. Their wealthier types won't be for long if they fall for this.

They do in other countries.  Many countries have very high duty on imported cars to support their domestic manufacturers.  In Mexico there is a 100% duty on new cars, so if you saw someone driving a new Corvette with Mexican plates you knew they were loaded, and that's how they show it.




The US still has import tariffs on pickup trucks and motorcycles.
25% of the price of that Japanese made pickup truck is an import tariff.

Harley-Davidson requested the tariffs on foreign made motorcycles to allow them to continue to make crappy over priced bikes and to keep from going bankrupt.

So, yeah, there is not much difference between Cuba and the US there.
 
2014-01-04 11:57:54 AM
What about trades? I'll go pick up a beater K car, ship it down there, and trade it for a 57 Bel Air
 
2014-01-04 11:58:42 AM

vpb: edmo: If Uncle Sam mandated something like a Chevy Silverado should cost $125,000, we'd be in shock too. Their wealthier types won't be for long if they fall for this.

They do in other countries.  Many countries have very high duty on imported cars to support their domestic manufacturers.  In Mexico there is a 100% duty on new cars, so if you saw someone driving a new Corvette with Mexican plates you knew they were loaded, and that's how they show it.


They do in other countries because of the payoffs.

Colombia has a 100% import tax which they have decided to let go, well at 5% over the next gazillion years.  But it was hilarious seeing Venezuelan made Ford Fiestas going for 25k....
 
2014-01-04 12:02:02 PM

edmo: If Uncle Sam mandated something like a Chevy Silverado should cost $125,000, we'd be in shock too. Their wealthier types won't be for long if they fall for this.


Those in power are given cars "for official use" and those who are being rewarded will be given a tax break or rebate on the duty.  That's the way it's traditionally worked in Soviet-style dictatorships.

/In the USSR, you couldn't buy a Zil (luxury limousine) you had to be given one as a job perk
//Moscow had special Zil-only lanes, so the high party official didn't have to ever worry about being caught in traffic.
 
2014-01-04 12:02:10 PM

Badmoodman: Everyone knows the standard of luxury cars in Latin America is the Adobe.


The standard for luxury software is Adobe, too.

Have you seen how much they are charging for Creative Suite? It's highway robbery is what that is.

/Yes, I know, not relevant.
 
2014-01-04 12:02:25 PM
Welcome to the modern world, Cuba. The rest of us are shocked at new car prices whenever we think it's time to buy one after only 7 or 8 years.

/last time I bought a new car was 1985
 
2014-01-04 12:03:52 PM
Is this a good place to mention that just a hundred miles away, a Cuban's 1959 ride is worth a tidy sum?
 
2014-01-04 12:04:38 PM

vpb: edmo: If Uncle Sam mandated something like a Chevy Silverado should cost $125,000, we'd be in shock too. Their wealthier types won't be for long if they fall for this.

They do in other countries.  Many countries have very high duty on imported cars to support their domestic manufacturers.  In Mexico there is a 100% duty on new cars, so if you saw someone driving a new Corvette with Mexican plates you knew they were loaded, and that's how they show it.


Try Singapore.  IIRC in addition to the duties, there is something like $80k required to get a permit to buy a car.  You can spend $250k to get an Accord.
 
2014-01-04 12:07:45 PM

Mister Peejay: vpb: edmo: If Uncle Sam mandated something like a Chevy Silverado should cost $125,000, we'd be in shock too. Their wealthier types won't be for long if they fall for this.

They do in other countries.  Many countries have very high duty on imported cars to support their domestic manufacturers.  In Mexico there is a 100% duty on new cars, so if you saw someone driving a new Corvette with Mexican plates you knew they were loaded, and that's how they show it.

Try Singapore.  IIRC in addition to the duties, there is something like $80k required to get a permit to buy a car.  You can spend $250k to get an Accord.


In Colombia if you try to bring a used car in, it is only used if it is was built before 1965.  Otherwise you get 100 percent of sticker price as the tax.
 
2014-01-04 12:13:10 PM

iron_city_ap: What about trades? I'll go pick up a beater K car, ship it down there, and trade it for a 57 Bel Air


As US citizen you still can't do business with the Cubans.  Even though every president since Bush the Elder has promised to end the embargo.
 
2014-01-04 12:16:02 PM
Damn it
 
2014-01-04 12:16:43 PM

Dwight_Yeast: iron_city_ap: What about trades? I'll go pick up a beater K car, ship it down there, and trade it for a 57 Bel Air

As US citizen you still can't do business with the Cubans.  Even though every president since Bush the Elder has promised to end the embargo.


Hope and Change, man.
Hope and Change

/is a challenge, not a plank
 
2014-01-04 12:17:55 PM

Mister Peejay: vpb: edmo: If Uncle Sam mandated something like a Chevy Silverado should cost $125,000, we'd be in shock too. Their wealthier types won't be for long if they fall for this.

They do in other countries.  Many countries have very high duty on imported cars to support their domestic manufacturers.  In Mexico there is a 100% duty on new cars, so if you saw someone driving a new Corvette with Mexican plates you knew they were loaded, and that's how they show it.

Try Singapore.  IIRC in addition to the duties, there is something like $80k required to get a permit to buy a car.  You can spend $250k to get an Accord.


In Singapore's case, it's probably a matter of overcrowding.
 
2014-01-04 12:21:39 PM

vpb: edmo: If Uncle Sam mandated something like a Chevy Silverado should cost $125,000, we'd be in shock too. Their wealthier types won't be for long if they fall for this.

They do in other countries.  Many countries have very high duty on imported cars to support their domestic manufacturers.  In Mexico there is a 100% duty on new cars, so if you saw someone driving a new Corvette with Mexican plates you knew they were loaded, and that's how they show it.


From what I've read, Brazil is like that, but with pretty much everything, not just cars.

Not coincidentally, you see a lot of Brazilian tourists that come here to go shopping for clothes and small electronics (and presumably do the same thing in New York or Madrid or wherever).  Whenever you see a family of four with 15 suitcases among them at CDG, it's a smart bet they're Brazilians flying back home.  Because presumably even after the cost of plane tickets and hotel rooms, it's cheaper to fly up to Europe and buy a year's worth of clothing than it is to buy it there, what with the import taxes and all.
 
2014-01-04 12:25:50 PM

Dwight_Yeast: iron_city_ap: What about trades? I'll go pick up a beater K car, ship it down there, and trade it for a 57 Bel Air

As US citizen you still can't do business with the Cubans.  Even though every president since Bush the Elder has promised to end the embargo.


You thought any of them would keep their promises? They call people who voted for them because of shiat like that "suckers".
 
2014-01-04 12:29:14 PM
Welcome to capitalism, folks! Enjoy the ride.
 
2014-01-04 12:31:24 PM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: The US still has import tariffs on pickup trucks and motorcycles.
25% of the price of that Japanese made pickup truck is an import tariff.



The Chicken Tax.  I had thought that applied just to European trucks, but apparently not.

Strange that VW wont sell their trucks here even though Japan's demonstrated that it can be done.

Would love to get a VW cargo van.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
 
2014-01-04 12:34:14 PM
"Cubans have reacted with shock after foreign-made cars went on sale for the first time since the 1959 revolution at what some termed "crazy" prices."

New cars have always been available in Cuba. Contrary to the popular tourist image, the streets of Havana are an eclectic mix of mostly new cars from China, Korea, and the South American branches of Fiat and Peugeot, but even Toyotas and Nissans aren't rare, with a smattering of old American and Soviet-era East European cars. Plus there are countless Chinese motorcycles, many with sidecar attached. Even recent American cars are not that rare. The US may have an embargo against Cuba, but the rest of the world does not.

iron_city_ap: What about trades? I'll go pick up a beater K car, ship it down there, and trade it for a 57 Bel Air


You might be disappointed... most old "American" cars are not what they seem: in many cases, particularly those that ply the tourist trade, the drivetrain has long ago been replaced by something more reliable, economical, and easy to get parts for. That means the engine, transmission, rear axle, wheels and brakes are actually out of a Soviet truck.
 
2014-01-04 12:40:27 PM
TomD9938:
Strange that VW wont sell their trucks here even though Japan's demonstrated that it can be done.

Japan does/did three things to deal with the tax:

Large corporate tax breaks/subsidies in the early years.  Make the trucks super cheap so they would still be competitive even with the 25% tax.

"Cheat" the trucks so that they get around the tax.  Subaru famously put jump seats in the back of the BRAT to get around the tax.  Nissan Pathfinders were four-doors that had hidden doorhandles so they looked like two-doors, again to get around the tax.

Finally, they could just build the trucks in the US.
 
2014-01-04 12:41:30 PM
So how good are the Cuban roads?

connery.dk
 
2014-01-04 12:42:00 PM

TomD9938: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: The US still has import tariffs on pickup trucks and motorcycles.
25% of the price of that Japanese made pickup truck is an import tariff.


The Chicken Tax.  I had thought that applied just to European trucks, but apparently not.

Strange that VW wont sell their trucks here even though Japan's demonstrated that it can be done.

Would love to get a VW cargo van.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax


If you think the VW vans are good the Ford Transit's are even better (the full sized ones, not the Connect). Strange that a tax designed to protect US firms stops Ford from selling tens of thousands of vehicles.
 
2014-01-04 12:55:06 PM

Norfolking Chance: If you think the VW vans are good the Ford Transit's are even better (the full sized ones, not the Connect). Strange that a tax designed to protect US firms stops Ford from selling tens of thousands of vehicles.



I'd look at those too.

I've owned a number of Astros and VW is the only one that compares in terms of size and power and I think you can get the VW in a diesel as well.  Plus, I just have a soft spot for German vehicles anyway.

I'd be ok with full size van, but I dont have the clearance to get one in my garage and working downtown a lot, there are a number of parking ramps I couldnt get into either (a major hassle).

/ wish the Astro had survived
 
2014-01-04 01:08:44 PM

capt.hollister: New cars have always been available in Cuba.  The US may have an embargo against Cuba, but the rest of the world does not.


This.  I've been there a few times and only about 4-5% of the cars on the road were old American models.  There were tons of Hyundais, Fiats, Mitsubishis, VWs, and more.  No idea what the article is getting at when it says that foreign-made cars are on sale for the first time.  Cuba's always had foreign-made cars for sale, just not American ones in the last few decades.
 
2014-01-04 01:09:50 PM

rolladuck: You thought any of them would keep their promises? They call people who voted for them because of shiat like that "suckers".


Anyone who voted for a president solely because of his position in the Cuban embargo is an idiot, not a sucker.  What I find interesting is that in the planning stages of a campaign, getting rid of it always makes logical sense, but once you have to deal withe Miami Cuban exile community, it's something that gets horse-traded away.  Every time.

Norfolking Chance: If you think the VW vans are good the Ford Transit's are even better (the full sized ones, not the Connect). Strange that a tax designed to protect US firms stops Ford from selling tens of thousands of vehicles.


Ford does something amusing with the Transit Connect to get around that law: they're all shipped into this country as passenger vehicles, with windows all around and rear seats.  Those that are destined for the cargo van market are  then converted at a factory here in the States.  I can only assume the seats, windows and carpets are then shipped back to Turkey where they're re-installed and then shipped back here, only to be removed again.
 
2014-01-04 01:15:22 PM

Mister Peejay: TomD9938:
Strange that VW wont sell their trucks here even though Japan's demonstrated that it can be done.

Japan does/did three things to deal with the tax:

Large corporate tax breaks/subsidies in the early years.  Make the trucks super cheap so they would still be competitive even with the 25% tax.

"Cheat" the trucks so that they get around the tax.  Subaru famously put jump seats in the back of the BRAT to get around the tax.  Nissan Pathfinders were four-doors that had hidden doorhandles so they looked like two-doors, again to get around the tax.

Finally, they could just build the trucks in the US.




The tariff also increase the consumer sales price of US assembled trucks(due to lack of competition) and guarantees a high profit margin for GM/Ford/Chrysler.

Yeah for Crony Capitalism!!

Harley Davidson is in a quandary right now as only 65% of their bikes are sourced from US made parts. Any lower and they will have to pay a tariff on their bikes.
 
2014-01-04 01:20:29 PM

Dwight_Yeast: rolladuck: You thought any of them would keep their promises? They call people who voted for them because of shiat like that "suckers".

Anyone who voted for a president solely because of his position in the Cuban embargo is an idiot, not a sucker.  What I find interesting is that in the planning stages of a campaign, getting rid of it always makes logical sense, but once you have to deal withe Miami Cuban exile community, it's something that gets horse-traded away.  Every time.

Norfolking Chance: If you think the VW vans are good the Ford Transit's are even better (the full sized ones, not the Connect). Strange that a tax designed to protect US firms stops Ford from selling tens of thousands of vehicles.

Ford does something amusing with the Transit Connect to get around that law: they're all shipped into this country as passenger vehicles, with windows all around and rear seats.  Those that are destined for the cargo van market are  then converted at a factory here in the States.  I can only assume the seats, windows and carpets are then shipped back to Turkey where they're re-installed and then shipped back here, only to be removed again.


Well, once deflated, they don't take up much space.
 
2014-01-04 01:37:40 PM

capt.hollister: "Cubans have reacted with shock after foreign-made cars went on sale for the first time since the 1959 revolution at what some termed "crazy" prices."

New cars have always been available in Cuba. Contrary to the popular tourist image, the streets of Havana are an eclectic mix of mostly new cars from China, Korea, and the South American branches of Fiat and Peugeot, but even Toyotas and Nissans aren't rare, with a smattering of old American and Soviet-era East European cars. Plus there are countless Chinese motorcycles, many with sidecar attached. Even recent American cars are not that rare. The US may have an embargo against Cuba, but the rest of the world does not.

iron_city_ap: What about trades? I'll go pick up a beater K car, ship it down there, and trade it for a 57 Bel Air

You might be disappointed... most old "American" cars are not what they seem: in many cases, particularly those that ply the tourist trade, the drivetrain has long ago been replaced by something more reliable, economical, and easy to get parts for. That means the engine, transmission, rear axle, wheels and brakes are actually out of a Soviet truck.


Making it even more rare in the states. Alas, it's just a pipe dream
 
2014-01-04 01:56:09 PM

Dwight_Yeast: rolladuck: You thought any of them would keep their promises? They call people who voted for them because of shiat like that "suckers".

Anyone who voted for a president solely because of his position in the Cuban embargo is an idiot, not a sucker.  What I find interesting is that in the planning stages of a campaign, getting rid of it always makes logical sense, but once you have to deal withe Miami Cuban exile community, it's something that gets horse-traded away.  Every time.

Norfolking Chance: If you think the VW vans are good the Ford Transit's are even better (the full sized ones, not the Connect). Strange that a tax designed to protect US firms stops Ford from selling tens of thousands of vehicles.

Ford does something amusing with the Transit Connect to get around that law: they're all shipped into this country as passenger vehicles, with windows all around and rear seats.  Those that are destined for the cargo van market are  then converted at a factory here in the States.  I can only assume the seats, windows and carpets are then shipped back to Turkey where they're re-installed and then shipped back here, only to be removed again.


Actually, the glass seats and carpet are recycled here since it would cost more to send them back to Turkey. Eventually Transit Connect production will move to the USA for the next generation model.
 
2014-01-04 02:36:21 PM
Dwight_Yeast:  Those that are destined for the cargo van market are  then converted at a factory here in the States.  I can only assume the seats, windows and carpets are then shipped back to Turkey where they're re-installed and then shipped back here, only to be removed again.

You'd think that would make sense, but no!  It's cheaper to just shred and dispose of all of that stuff rather than repackage it and sent it back for another go-round.

I imagine that doing it this way reduces liability with respect to damage to components upon removal or reshipment.
 
2014-01-04 02:57:54 PM
Don't fall for it. It's a trick. Just keep your '55 Chevys running.
 
2014-01-04 03:16:51 PM
What a massive shiathole.  Every country on Earth trades with them, except America, and Communism has kept them a third-world country.  Yet they complain about evul 'murrica.

Assholes.
 
2014-01-04 03:20:11 PM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Harley-Davidson requested the tariffs on foreign made motorcycles to allow them to continue to make crappy over priced bikes and to keep from going bankrupt.


And once they were profitable again they requested the tariff be dropped.

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/18/business/harley-asks-end-to-tariff -a id.html

And now you know the rest of the story.
 
2014-01-04 03:31:40 PM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Harley Davidson is in a quandary right now as only 65% of their bikes are sourced from US made parts. Any lower and they will have to pay a tariff on their bikes.


You don't pay a tariff on parts.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111126105511AAW3xFe
 
2014-01-04 03:34:00 PM

iron_city_ap: What about trades? I'll go pick up a beater K car, ship it down there, and trade it for a 57 Bel Air


But, the Belair could have a Soviet power train, held in there with odd nuts and bolts, so there's that.
 
2014-01-04 03:34:46 PM

Dwight_Yeast: rolladuck: You thought any of them would keep their promises? They call people who voted for them because of shiat like that "suckers".

Anyone who voted for a president solely because of his position in the Cuban embargo is an idiot, not a sucker.  What I find interesting is that in the planning stages of a campaign, getting rid of it always makes logical sense, but once you have to deal withe Miami Cuban exile community, it's something that gets horse-traded away.  Every time.

Norfolking Chance: If you think the VW vans are good the Ford Transit's are even better (the full sized ones, not the Connect). Strange that a tax designed to protect US firms stops Ford from selling tens of thousands of vehicles.

Ford does something amusing with the Transit Connect to get around that law: they're all shipped into this country as passenger vehicles, with windows all around and rear seats.  Those that are destined for the cargo van market are  then converted at a factory here in the States.  I can only assume the seats, windows and carpets are then shipped back to Turkey where they're re-installed and then shipped back here, only to be removed again.


My van pool owner sold his old van to a guy from Nigeria. I know, I know. It turns out it was cheaper to buy here and ship it than buy over there. It was going to a school over there. And the cashiers check was good.
 
2014-01-04 03:35:20 PM

saturn badger: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Harley Davidson is in a quandary right now as only 65% of their bikes are sourced from US made parts. Any lower and they will have to pay a tariff on their bikes.

You don't pay a tariff on parts.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111126105511AAW3xFe


At what percentage of imported parts is something considered to be an import?

IIRC for cars it is somewhere around 30%.  I think.  It's different depending on WHO makes it too.
 
2014-01-04 03:52:40 PM

Mister Peejay: saturn badger: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Harley Davidson is in a quandary right now as only 65% of their bikes are sourced from US made parts. Any lower and they will have to pay a tariff on their bikes.

You don't pay a tariff on parts.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111126105511AAW3xFe

At what percentage of imported parts is something considered to be an import?

IIRC for cars it is somewhere around 30%.  I think.  It's different depending on WHO makes it too.


That is a very good question and one I had never pondered. Evidently it gets very complicated.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/archive/112_9502_usdm_vs_jdm/view al l.html

So conceivably a car made in the US could be considered an import. Interesting. So there is no tariff on the parts but could be on the vehicle. The Yahoo link alluded to this with the India exports of HD but they were missing parts to be fully assembled there.

/most interesting
 
2014-01-04 04:07:27 PM

Intrepid00: edmo: If Uncle Sam mandated something like a Chevy Silverado should cost $125,000, we'd be in shock too. Their wealthier types won't be for long if they fall for this.
Except a shiat Kia goes for like 50k.


Why are they shiat?
 
2014-01-04 05:01:36 PM
When I was in Brazil a few years ago I saw newspaper ads for cars. I couldn't believe the prices. A car that would be $20,000 here was over $40,000. Is it because of tariffs or something?
 
2014-01-04 08:18:08 PM
Serves em right.  That is what they get for being a bunch of commies.
 
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