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(C|Net)   Windows 8 is about to become the third most popular operating system ... by unseating Windows Vista   (news.cnet.com) divider line 117
    More: Weird, Windows 8.1, Net Applications, Windows, Vista, operating systems, bug fixes  
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2617 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Jan 2014 at 6:25 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



117 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-03 05:29:04 PM
Seriously? Splitting hairs between 8.0 and 8.1? Marketing aside, it's just a service pack.
 
2014-01-03 05:35:48 PM
I've tried upgrading to 8.1 but it just sends me to the store and hangs forever without loading.
 
2014-01-03 05:39:45 PM

fusillade762: I've tried upgrading to 8.1 but it just sends me to the store and hangs forever without loading.


I had no problem upgrading.
 
2014-01-03 06:29:22 PM
Don't worry you guys. I'll keep windows XP on the list, likely for the rest of this decade.
Well, not me specifically, but some of the older users I have. wail when anything changes, so we don't change them often.
 
2014-01-03 06:32:52 PM
In before "Windows 8 is great, it's just you people trying to use it that suck".
 
2014-01-03 06:35:43 PM
What's sad is after all this time, Linux desktop OS still can't beat even the percentage of Apple desktop OS. And Android is proof that people can learn to use and will use another OS other than Windows. Plus Linux is free! There's gotta be a crapload of hardware easily configurable with it.

Too bad Red Hat Fedora could never make a dent in the desktop market.
 
2014-01-03 06:37:19 PM
Windows 7 Pro is selling for 60 to 70 bucks on eBay.
 
2014-01-03 06:38:48 PM
And you can get the Win 7 disc images legally from Digital River if you already have a key.
 
2014-01-03 06:39:15 PM

skinink: What's sad is after all this time, Linux desktop OS still can't beat even the percentage of Apple desktop OS. And Android is proof that people can learn to use and will use another OS other than Windows. Plus Linux is free! There's gotta be a crapload of hardware easily configurable with it.

Too bad Red Hat Fedora could never make a dent in the desktop market.


I think its the whole "I have to spend an hour downloading files and configuring my system to get anything to run on it"  that scares people off.
 
2014-01-03 06:43:50 PM

skinink: What's sad is after all this time, Linux desktop OS still can't beat even the percentage of Apple desktop OS. And Android is proof that people can learn to use and will use another OS other than Windows.


Actually iOS was the proof.  But it took both iOS and Android (eventually) to prove to most users that they didn't need the bloatware called Office.  They can use iWorks or GoogleDocs or something else.  That's Microsofts real problem.  Once you don't need Office - you don't need Windows.  Microsoft should just rebrand itself an enterprise company.

skinink: Plus Linux is free!


Linux is only free if your time has no value.

skinink: Too bad Red Hat Fedora could never make a dent in the desktop market.


Doesn't matter anymore.  The desktop will soon be a niche market.
 
2014-01-03 06:45:36 PM

skinink: What's sad is after all this time, Linux desktop OS still can't beat even the percentage of Apple desktop OS. And Android is proof that people can learn to use and will use another OS other than Windows. Plus Linux is free! There's gotta be a crapload of hardware easily configurable with it.
Too bad Red Hat Fedora could never make a dent in the desktop market.


Yeah, you know what? Most people aren't interested in assembling their car completely from scratch either.
 
2014-01-03 06:46:04 PM

Marcus Aurelius: In before "Windows 8 is great, it's just you people trying to use it that suck".


We need the whole trifecta.

"No, Win8 doesn't have that feature that is integral to your particular profession, but who uses that? Win8 makes it easy for me to upload pictures of my puggle to Facebook, and I'm pretty sure that's all computers are meant to do."
or
"Of course Win8 does that. Just use these five simple steps that you never would've been able to intuit yourself through its oppressively obtuse interface, and isn't documented anywhere outside of a support forum that shows up on page four of a Google search. Simple, right?"
 
2014-01-03 06:47:10 PM

gingerjet: The desktop will soon be a niche market for people who want to do actual work as opposed to just dicking around.


FTFY.
 
2014-01-03 06:48:56 PM

simplicimus: Seriously? Splitting hairs between 8.0 and 8.1? Marketing aside, it's just a service pack.


For the record, that's the same version difference between Vista (6.0) and 7 (6.1).
 
2014-01-03 06:49:45 PM

gingerjet: skinink: What's sad is after all this time, Linux desktop OS still can't beat even the percentage of Apple desktop OS. And Android is proof that people can learn to use and will use another OS other than Windows.

Actually iOS was the proof.  But it took both iOS and Android (eventually) to prove to most users that they didn't need the bloatware called Office.  They can use iWorks or GoogleDocs or something else.  That's Microsofts real problem.  Once you don't need Office - you don't need Windows.  Microsoft should just rebrand itself an enterprise company.

skinink: Plus Linux is free!

Linux is only free if your time has no value.

skinink: Too bad Red Hat Fedora could never make a dent in the desktop market.

Doesn't matter anymore.  The desktop will soon be a niche market.


The Metro interface is a great fit for the market of 2015.
 
2014-01-03 06:51:24 PM

simplicimus: fusillade762: I've tried upgrading to 8.1 but it just sends me to the store and hangs forever without loading.

I had no problem upgrading.


For some stupid reason my company is holding off on the 8.1 upgrade and even has it blocked in the group policy. Which really sucks because 8.1 did a lot to make it work better for desktop/laptop computers, so it is really a pain to have to wait until they have everything tested. That said, it wasn't too bad of a transition, and once I shoved all of the metro apps out of sight and got all of my desktop apps pinned in the first few groups it works pretty well, plus it runs really smooth on the desktop side and it has some nice extras like Bitlocker for external drives (which is a lot easier to deal with than vendor supplied drive encryption software) and vasty improved multi monitor support (I can finally use my laptop screen with my 27" external monitor without it being annoying, for example). There are some annoyances still like the damn hot corners that keep popping up at bad times. I just wish Microsoft had provided an easy option to de-Metro it out of the box, because honestly I have very little use for Metro apps on my work PC and it took some time and effort to put the metro stuff out of sight and change the defaults for some apps like the video player.
 
2014-01-03 06:54:10 PM

andrewagill: simplicimus: Seriously? Splitting hairs between 8.0 and 8.1? Marketing aside, it's just a service pack.

For the record, that's the same version difference between Vista (6.0) and 7 (6.1).


Interesting. My routine is the same, boot, login, click on Desktop. Same as in 8.0.
/Yeah I could boot into desktop.
 
2014-01-03 06:55:36 PM

Mad_Radhu: simplicimus: fusillade762: I've tried upgrading to 8.1 but it just sends me to the store and hangs forever without loading.

I had no problem upgrading.

For some stupid reason my company is holding off on the 8.1 upgrade and even has it blocked in the group policy. Which really sucks because 8.1 did a lot to make it work better for desktop/laptop computers, so it is really a pain to have to wait until they have everything tested. That said, it wasn't too bad of a transition, and once I shoved all of the metro apps out of sight and got all of my desktop apps pinned in the first few groups it works pretty well, plus it runs really smooth on the desktop side and it has some nice extras like Bitlocker for external drives (which is a lot easier to deal with than vendor supplied drive encryption software) and vasty improved multi monitor support (I can finally use my laptop screen with my 27" external monitor without it being annoying, for example). There are some annoyances still like the damn hot corners that keep popping up at bad times. I just wish Microsoft had provided an easy option to de-Metro it out of the box, because honestly I have very little use for Metro apps on my work PC and it took some time and effort to put the metro stuff out of sight and change the defaults for some apps like the video player.


And those would be the reasons why Ballmer is no longer running things in Redmond.
 
2014-01-03 06:59:35 PM

gingerjet: Doesn't matter anymore.  The desktop will soon be a niche market.


I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. There's still a ton of stuff that is much easier to deal with on a desktop (hell, even writing a Fark post and adding a picture is a huge PITA on an iPad compared to a regular PC), and the install base is mind boggingly huge. The desktop/laptop computer just won't be sexy, but it'll be around forever at work and at home. Most people will be like me, with a laptop that does most content creation, and a tablet that is better for learning back on the couch and reading/surfing the web/watching movies/playing touchscreen games. With a decent laptop less than $500 and nice tablets out there for under $300, there is no reason you can't have both (plus a smartphone for calls and on the go stuff). It's cheap enough these days where you don't have to choose one over the other.
 
2014-01-03 06:59:50 PM

fusillade762: I've tried upgrading to 8.1 but it just sends me to the store and hangs forever without loading.


That's because your state didn't set up its own marketplace.
 
2014-01-03 07:05:13 PM
One thing I've noticed is that more and more systems are being shipped with a Performance control panel that does not give you number for Windows Experience Index.

While not perfect, it was one way to differentiates laptops at the store, and now that's going or gone with 8.1

/pretty sure it's an 8.1 thing, because the same laptops WEI is gone from do a "Search Everywhere" in charms.
 
2014-01-03 07:06:09 PM

Old enough to know better: skinink: What's sad is after all this time, Linux desktop OS still can't beat even the percentage of Apple desktop OS. And Android is proof that people can learn to use and will use another OS other than Windows. Plus Linux is free! There's gotta be a crapload of hardware easily configurable with it.

Too bad Red Hat Fedora could never make a dent in the desktop market.

I think its the whole "I have to spend an hour downloading files and configuring my system to get anything to run on it"  that scares people off.


Well, that and dependencies.
 
2014-01-03 07:09:32 PM

gingerjet: The desktop will soon be a niche market.


I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
 
2014-01-03 07:13:02 PM

andrewagill: simplicimus: Seriously? Splitting hairs between 8.0 and 8.1? Marketing aside, it's just a service pack.

For the record, that's the same version difference between Vista (6.0) and 7 (6.1).


Microsoft internal version numbers really aren't any more meaningful than the OS X numbers. 6.0 to 6.1 wasn't a big change, but 6.1 to 6.2 (Windows 8) is huge, while 6.2 to 6.3 (8 to 8.1) is just some tweaks and tunes similar to the Vista/7 changes. Similar to how OS X 10.4-10.5 was a big change, while 10.6 barely changed anything you could see.
 
2014-01-03 07:14:13 PM

gingerjet: Linux is only free if your time has no value.


I've have a lot less headaches with linux than iOS or Windows.
 
2014-01-03 07:14:52 PM
Just built a new gaming computer and was having some issues getting drivers to work with the new mobo under Windows 7. Ended up putting Windows 8 on it to get everything working, despite not wanting too. Meh, it's OK I guess with the Stardock Windows 7 start button app installed to use instead of the only-meant-for-touchscreens metro interface.

By the way... Sata 3 SSD for the boot drive + an Intel i7-4770k apparently = you're at your desktop in 10 farking seconds after turning the power on. It's insane...

I am SOOOOOO ready for Star Citizen already!
 
2014-01-03 07:19:54 PM
Old enough to know better : I think its the whole "I have to spend an hour downloading files and configuring my system to get anything to run on it" that scares people off

Hasn't been true for at least half a decade, it's a myth that's just continually perpetuated.

// also, people tend to give help by pasting shell commands, because it's easier to post a shell command that does something and have someone run it, than it is to walk them through how to do it step by step in the UI.

paste this in a terminal and hit enter
sudo apt-get install firefox

vs

go to the software center
search for firefox
click "install"
enter your root password
click "ok"

etc
// and the type of users that need that type of help, tend to need very specific help (like clicking an OK button).
 
2014-01-03 07:20:05 PM
I was happy with  Windows for Workgroups Version 3.11
 
2014-01-03 07:20:09 PM
What really surprises me is that the PS3's Other has such a high market segment, higher than that of Vista or 8.1.  I can't believe so many people opted to not update the PS3, though that would explain the hackers when I play COD.

/Yes, I'm aware it refers to BSD, Unix, BeOS, Solaris, etc.....
//Setting up a modern Linux desktop is easier than setting up a demetrofyied Windows 8, especially anything Debian based (just google and copy/paste the apt commands, ya lazy slackers)
///Running Windows (8.1) for the first time in 8ish years....not as bad as ya'll make it out to be....

And because it needs to be said:

EVERY DAMN SYSTEM requires tweaking after the first install, be it a phone, tablet, laptop, desktop, game console, server, Funtoo Linux, Windows 95a, OS/2 Warp, whatever.  Complaining about installing\removing a program or having to tweak some settings is like complaining about having to change the factory set station presets and tweaking the EQ in a new car radio....
 
2014-01-03 07:20:13 PM
I like Windows 8 for what it is.
 
2014-01-03 07:23:24 PM

SomeoneDumb: Old enough to know better: skinink: What's sad is after all this time, Linux desktop OS still can't beat even the percentage of Apple desktop OS. And Android is proof that people can learn to use and will use another OS other than Windows. Plus Linux is free! There's gotta be a crapload of hardware easily configurable with it.

Too bad Red Hat Fedora could never make a dent in the desktop market.

I think its the whole "I have to spend an hour downloading files and configuring my system to get anything to run on it"  that scares people off.

Well, that and dependencies.


I can't remember the last time I had to think about dependencies.  What are you using for a package manager, portage?
 
2014-01-03 07:24:44 PM

skeevy420: What really surprises me is that the PS3's Other has such a high market segment, higher than that of Vista or 8.1.  I can't believe so many people opted to not update the PS3, though that would explain the hackers when I play COD.

/Yes, I'm aware it refers to BSD, Unix, BeOS, Solaris, etc.....
//Setting up a modern Linux desktop is easier than setting up a demetrofyied Windows 8, especially anything Debian based (just google and copy/paste the apt commands, ya lazy slackers)
///Running Windows (8.1) for the first time in 8ish years....not as bad as ya'll make it out to be....

And because it needs to be said:

EVERY DAMN SYSTEM requires tweaking after the first install, be it a phone, tablet, laptop, desktop, game console, server, Funtoo Linux, Windows 95a, OS/2 Warp, whatever.  Complaining about installing\removing a program or having to tweak some settings is like complaining about having to change the factory set station presets and tweaking the EQ in a new car radio....


You know, there are some things that are better left forgotten...
 
2014-01-03 07:27:00 PM
Phoenix87ta: You know, there are some things that are better left forgotten...

Ahh shiat, I have a box of install disks in my closet ... but I never used it (free from work).

... wonder if I can install it in virtualbox :P
 
2014-01-03 07:31:06 PM

simplicimus: Seriously? Splitting hairs between 8.0 and 8.1? Marketing aside, it's just a service pack.


So was 7, and the Vista-haters lined up around the block to pay $100-300 for it anyways -- all while thumbing their noses at people who just kept Vista. Never underestimate the power of stupid people to fall for cheap marketing.
 
2014-01-03 07:31:36 PM

Phoenix87ta: I can't remember the last time I had to think about dependencies.  What are you using for a package manager, portage?


Pkgtool, Slackware's tool and doesn't resolve dependencies.

Seriously though, I use apt (Mint 13) but it'll be portage (Funtoo) once my CPU cooler (Corsair H50) comes in....was supposed to be in yesterday :(
 
2014-01-03 07:33:13 PM
I think Microsoft called that thing in the bottom left corner a Start button out of spite. Cuz sure as hell it doesn't work like a start button and you still have to rely on third party software to get something that resembles the start button of old, like Classic Shell.
 
2014-01-03 07:34:49 PM
How could Microsoft not have known that the upper right corner thing would make Windows 8.0 so damn painful to run in a VM?
 
2014-01-03 07:37:50 PM

lordargent: Old enough to know better : I think its the whole "I have to spend an hour downloading files and configuring my system to get anything to run on it" that scares people off

Hasn't been true for at least half a decade, it's a myth that's just continually perpetuated.


I got to do a fresh Windows 7 install for my step-father over the xmas holiday. Unfortunately it was from a pre-sp1 disc. Three farking hours of service packs and updates.
 
2014-01-03 07:38:56 PM
My experience with 8.1 is that it latches up the drive at 100% and the cursor hangs.  Doing the google seems that the same thing is happening to a lot of lap tops.  It is doing pageswaps like crazy with 4 gig of ram - perhaps more ram will do it but 4 gig worked fine with 7.
 
2014-01-03 07:43:15 PM

exboyracer: My experience with 8.1 is that it latches up the drive at 100% and the cursor hangs.  Doing the google seems that the same thing is happening to a lot of lap tops.  It is doing pageswaps like crazy with 4 gig of ram - perhaps more ram will do it but 4 gig worked fine with 7.


So they fixed what they broke going from XP to Vista by going from Vista to 7.  Now they broke it again going from 7 to 8.  If I didn't have to keep up with the latest MS operating systems, I would junk it all and have Linux Mint on everything for the sake of simplicity with the Windows users.
 
2014-01-03 07:50:01 PM

What Plants Crave: I got to do a fresh Windows 7 install for my step-father over the xmas holiday. Unfortunately it was from a pre-sp1 disc. Three farking hours of service packs and updates.


Why not just torrent an up-to-date Windows 7 disk and use your legal, paid for, cd key?  I've had to do that with every PC I've owned since they either came with no install disk or a recovery partition.  I'm too impatient to wait for a disk to come in the mail that I can download and burn in under an hour, and I'd rather have the space the recovery partition uses (or use it as a swap partition depending on size).

I did what you did once, ONCE, for a friends Mom back with Windows 98.  Never again.  Updating a fresh copy of Windows 98 to SE is a motherfarker, especially over 56k out in the woods with 3-4kbps max down.   Sad thing is Microsoft still has a crappy updating system.
 
2014-01-03 07:51:17 PM

Old enough to know better: I think its the whole "I have to spend an hour downloading files and configuring my system to get anything to run on it" that scares people off.


The first time I did a desktop install of linux was on my first laptop in 2003 (4 maybe?), with Fedora. I spent three weeks configuring my graphics acceleration with NVIDIA, my wireless with ndiswrapper, getting my linux partition to recognize my windows partition, and a host of other things. I also had to do a command-line based install because of my graphics card. It was a learning experience, and I'm glad I went through it, but at the time, I would have totally agreed with what you're saying.

The last time I did a linux install, it was a few months ago for Mint 14 or something. I did a basic installation using default setting which was literally so easy my grandmother could have done it, and the only thing that didn't work out of the box was my fingerprinter reader. Everything else, my wifi card, graphics card, webcam, sdcard reader was just fine. The interface was extremely intuitive and very easy to use.
 
2014-01-03 07:58:36 PM

Mad_Radhu: For some stupid reason my company is holding off on the 8.1 upgrade and even has it blocked in the group policy. Which really sucks because 8.1 did a lot to make it work better for desktop/laptop computers, so it is really a pain to have to wait until they have everything tested.


I had to block 8.1 for my Windows 8 clients because of incompatibilities with VPN software, which is kind of a giant deal-breaker, and because of some weird issues with random WLAN hangups that don't happen with the same hardware on Windows 7.

I also have a problem with Intel BH61-based DESKTOP systems not waking up the ethernet connection until there's a system does a hard power off (something that 8.x does not do by default, ever), which Intel has variously told me will be fixed with eight different BIOS revisions and at least four particular updates to either the ethernet or power management drivers but to date the only fix I've found that doesn't involve booting in to some other OS is to install another NIC. Long story short: I think Windows 8 has weird problems with power management and Intel network controllers.

For all that, most of my users really like Windows 8, especially once I published Classic Shell in AD so they could install it if they wanted a more traditional experience.
 
2014-01-03 08:00:43 PM

skinink: What's sad is after all this time, Linux desktop OS still can't beat even the percentage of Apple desktop OS. And Android is proof that people can learn to use and will use another OS other than Windows. Plus Linux is free! There's gotta be a crapload of hardware easily configurable with it.

Too bad Red Hat Fedora could never make a dent in the desktop market.


Linux as a desktop OS reminds me of Libertarians. They can never attract more than a percentage or two of people but insist that it's only because people don't  know what they have to offer rather than people rejecting what they're offering.

/Linux as a server OS reminds me of concrete bunker screaming "THAT'S ALL YOU GOT!?!?! COME AT ME BRO!" to a weakling outside world.
 
2014-01-03 08:03:42 PM

exboyracer: My experience with 8.1 is that it latches up the drive at 100% and the cursor hangs.  Doing the google seems that the same thing is happening to a lot of lap tops.  It is doing pageswaps like crazy with 4 gig of ram - perhaps more ram will do it but 4 gig worked fine with 7.


That's probably the indexing service.  Either it's going to get better or you'll have to limit what it's indexing.
 
2014-01-03 08:04:12 PM

skeevy420: Phoenix87ta: I can't remember the last time I had to think about dependencies.  What are you using for a package manager, portage?

Pkgtool, Slackware's tool and doesn't resolve dependencies.

Seriously though, I use apt (Mint 13) but it'll be portage (Funtoo) once my CPU cooler (Corsair H50) comes in....was supposed to be in yesterday :(


They've even developed a Slack version of apt (slapt-get, *snrk*), so there's generally no need to think about dependencies anymore unless you really like torturing yourself :)
 
2014-01-03 08:04:48 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Old enough to know better: I think its the whole "I have to spend an hour downloading files and configuring my system to get anything to run on it" that scares people off.

The first time I did a desktop install of linux was on my first laptop in 2003 (4 maybe?), with Fedora. I spent three weeks configuring my graphics acceleration with NVIDIA, my wireless with ndiswrapper, getting my linux partition to recognize my windows partition, and a host of other things. I also had to do a command-line based install because of my graphics card. It was a learning experience, and I'm glad I went through it, but at the time, I would have totally agreed with what you're saying.

The last time I did a linux install, it was a few months ago for Mint 14 or something. I did a basic installation using default setting which was literally so easy my grandmother could have done it, and the only thing that didn't work out of the box was my fingerprinter reader. Everything else, my wifi card, graphics card, webcam, sdcard reader was just fine. The interface was extremely intuitive and very easy to use.


That.  That post right there.  That was me, only switch Fedora with Debian.  Back then it was a pita, since 05, 06 its been pretty much click, click, click done.  Partitioning might be the hardest part of the install now.

You have to really, really, really go out of the way and use a niche distro to have to actually work at setting Linux up these days.  Gentoo, Arch, SourceMage, Slackware, and LFS, come to mind, but even those are pretty good at getting the hardware set up correctly, the rest, for me anyways, is just the basic crap ya do when ya set up a system.
 
2014-01-03 08:11:09 PM

simplicimus: fusillade762: I've tried upgrading to 8.1 but it just sends me to the store and hangs forever without loading.

I had no problem upgrading.


I had major problems upgrading, although the problem was that I went ahead and upgraded. I like how all the store got rid of Windows 7 when 8 came out the same way that health organizations get rid of Ebola. Windows 7 was great, but 8 had been a godawful steaming turd. I'd have spent my money better by renting a half dozen heroin addicted hookers and throwing my rubbers out of the car window.
 
2014-01-03 08:15:09 PM
Forget deja vu, I'm overcome with schadenfreude.
 
2014-01-03 08:15:36 PM
Microsoft has vowed to cut off support for XP starting April 8, 2014. That means no more security patches, bug fixes, or other updates. As such, businesses and organizations have been scrambling to upgrade from XP before the deadline arrives.

Scrambling is not the word I use to describe companies upgrading from XP at this point.
 
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