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(AP) NewsFlash Part of Patriot Act ruled unconstitutional   (rockymounttelegram.com) divider line 660
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35343 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Jan 2004 at 3:22 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2004-01-26 07:06:55 PM
Come on, do you honestly think the US government will go around randomly picking people up off the street and locking them up for no reason? If someone's in jail under the Patriot Act, then they've more than likely done something to warrant it. I think the US government has better things to do than go around spying/locking up Joe Average for no reason.

They sure as hell did it in Orlando - and I don't mean Jesse Malli. They "disappeared" 4 different Musslim men for two weeks - directly after 9-11 - and released them when they were cleared. The Only reason why I know about it is that the people went on television directly afterwards and said they understood why they were being detained and wanted their families to know they were OK. And that was well before the Patriot act.
 
2004-01-26 07:08:12 PM
[Theres no such thing as a manageable level of asshole content of congress. Congress translated into fark means "asshole"]

Which is why legalizing dueling would go along way towards reducing frivilous lawsuits, stand up comics and make sure that help desk people, government servants and legislators actually thought about what they said before spouting off.

I'm only semi-serious here, if you hadn't noticed.
 
2004-01-26 07:11:10 PM
[Omigod -- Weaver95 and I agree on something. TAKE COVER! THE END IS NEAR!]

I'm not sure, but I think I just got insulted and complimented at the same time.

My brain hurts now.
 
2004-01-26 07:13:14 PM
I do my best to keep it clever. Take it as a backhanded compliment. ;-P

I do agree though, had Europe's Jews welcomed every jackboot with an assault rifle....
 
2004-01-26 07:13:19 PM
Xtreme:
I don't get it. I answered your question; the second sentence in the paragraph refers to the first. My HTML priveleges have for some reason been denied, but I can give you the URL for the full act.
http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html
Scroll to Sec. 412. It amends Immigration and Nationality, so you'll be looking at 236(a)(5).
[Are you suggesting that the Attorney General would be the sole decider?]
Sole decider of what? What "charg[ing] the alien with a criminal offense" means?

http://www.rightstuffnews.com/phpbb2
The Right Stuff - register on our forums!
 
2004-01-26 07:13:42 PM
If it doesn't directly affect me right now then it doesn't count as a loss of rights. I am so smart..S-M-R-T!

Jesus 2.0 please save us all!
 
2004-01-26 07:14:30 PM
effect?

Jesus 2.0 eff'n Christ!
 
2004-01-26 07:17:05 PM
And so it begins...
 
2004-01-26 07:30:32 PM
[I do agree though, had Europe's Jews welcomed every jackboot with an assault rifle....]

I'm also forced to wonder if Stalin would have gotten away with killing so many people if the Russian people had been armed. It would have been interesting to see what effect his show trials of the '30's would have had on an armed populace.

And the Nazi's would have been piled 10 high if every jew in Germany had been armed in '41.
 
2004-01-26 07:30:38 PM
I will repeat what one of the other posters said.

Raise your hand, those who have had their rights violated by the Patriot Act.

I continue to hear crickets.
 
2004-01-26 07:32:09 PM
I will repeat what one of the other posters said.

...while ignoring the multiple responses to that poster.

Good on ya.
 
2004-01-26 07:35:35 PM
So the only thing left for Bush to do is...

FULL MILITARY TAKEOVER! BEFORE NOVEMBER!!

anyone wanna wager?
 
2004-01-26 07:35:38 PM
Here's one:


Hand's up, who here thinks MrBigglesworth is an ignorant troll?

Wow, look at all the hands.
 
2004-01-26 07:39:05 PM
[FULL MILITARY TAKEOVER! BEFORE NOVEMBER!!]

Yeah, but my jackboots are still on back order and won't get here until April!

Damn. Military junta is coming and i'm having a fashon crisis.
 
2004-01-26 07:44:06 PM
WGAF?

It's the 9th Circus...what a joke.
The entire 9th Circuit of Califoria is a waste of oxygen.
 
2004-01-26 07:46:51 PM
People, don't forget...only citizens have Constitutional rights.

And if you are a citizen who commits an act of sedition or betrayal you effectivly lose your citizenship and rights as well.

Boo hoo...go cry about it lefties.
 
2004-01-26 07:49:40 PM
*shrugs*

OK, go ahead and support that right-wing legislation, cclark...I won't cry when they come for you "by mistake"...yes, the gray area is THAT wide.

and for what it's worth, MrTrollersworth ALL of our rights are in jeopardy by AGREEING to go along with this ridiculous piece of crap.
 
2004-01-26 07:58:39 PM
i'd just like to point out that most "conservatives" who support the patriot act and similar witch hunt GOP tactics are actually flying in the face of the very definition of their political ideology, which is to limit government and diffuse power across the states. if you can't even get that straight, just please leave the building.
 
2004-01-26 07:59:48 PM
cclark

if a district judge is a waste of oxygen, what does that make you?
 
2004-01-26 08:00:30 PM
Is this news source legitimate? I haven't seen the news or paper today, but in other news on that site:

- Part of Patriot Act Ruled Unconstitutional (different article, same name)
- 16 Trapped in Rubble of Egypt Collapse
- 18 Trapped in Rubble of Egypt Collapse
 
2004-01-26 08:01:55 PM
PulseCode:

do you consider CNN to be legitimate?
 
2004-01-26 08:03:21 PM
[OK, go ahead and support that right-wing legislation, cclark.]

Wait, i'm confused - which 'right wing' legislation are we talking about here? The Patriot Act was voted in almost unanmously by BOTH parties (with one dissenting vote I believe). This bit of legislative fertilizer was a bi-partisan effort that passed in record time and almost NO debate from ANYONE. As much as you might want to blame the Republicans for this, it's a matter of record that the democrats were just as much in favor of it as well.
 
2004-01-26 08:03:47 PM
So how am I a troll? Please provide specifics.

From my personal experience that I am drawing from. Not once instance of the Patriot Act has "violated" any of my civil rights. The only thing that has really changed since 911 for me is a better job, and a greater interest in the discussion of politics.

But hey, thanks for playing, and being intolerant of people with viewpoints that differ from yours!

Now who is the troll?
 
2004-01-26 08:07:15 PM
mrbigglesworth:

many jews (and christians and atheists and...) were not immediately rounded up for the concentration camps. as far as civil liberties go, a little concession can go a long way.
 
2004-01-26 08:07:35 PM
MrBigglesworth
Raise your hand, those who have had their rights violated by the Patriot Act.

I continue to hear crickets.


So if it doesn't impact me I shouldn't oppose it? Bullshiat.
 
2004-01-26 08:09:38 PM
my_morning_jacket:
Well, I ask because that site has two different articles written by the same person, with the same headline, and submitted at the same minute.
 
2004-01-26 08:17:37 PM
And you as a private person will not be affected immediatley by the Patriot Act - but as it gets boiled down and thrown across the nation to the differing municipalities and law enforcement agencies - you most definatley will Mr. Bigglesworth - because you have opinions and post on a message board on the internet. Not now - mabye not in five years - but unless this thing gets addressed and re-examined, it is possible that engaging in any type of behaviour outside what plain vanilla America see's as acceptable will be subject to more and more scrutiny. Think an airport is the only place you can't mention bombs? If nothing happens to address this - try typing that on FARK in ten years and see what attention you garner - what sort of explanations you have in place, and if you even think you should have to make any at all. Three years ago no one ever thought the RIAA would go tits up apeshiat all across netland - and here we are.

and I AM a conservative. There is something distinctly unamerican about not only presuming - but assigning guilt to persons arbitrarily without providing them any defense. I don't give a damn who it is - Hussein et al - Osama Bin Asshat - everyone on American soil (if these guys were interred here) is due representation - or else we HAVE gone over and well into something else. Just what in hell is there to be so afraid of anyway? If the attorney does something stupid like deleiver messages to Satanic cults or whatever - then you jail the attorney. What is it everyone is so afraid of? This makes NO sense.
 
2004-01-26 08:18:17 PM
So they're supposed to be scared away by being on the same side of the fence as -- OH NO A NAZI!, Bill_Wick's_Friend?

Well, here's a shocker for the leftist side: this evil, hideous NAZI agrees with you on gun control.

As great men once said: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the people to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so."

"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA-- ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State."


In short, the government must defend, as well as rule, its citizens with a iron fist. This obviously worked, because in 1939 Germany, the crime rate was all but wiped out. Here? It runs rampant, bloodthirsty and unchecked by a weak ineffective government who prefers to leave defence to the incompetent people, instead of stepping in and crushing the criminal element under the jackboot.


In all seriousness, people, can't you see past the farcical History Channel documentaries and the biased history textbooks written by the victors... and THINK? Learn about National Socialism and White Nationalism. Read about it from their side of the argument. I suggest Mein Kampf(obviously), Which Way Western Man, or if they're too big for you to read, try the Nazi-Sozi Questions. In short, think for yourself. If you let the media think for you, you are but a sheep. You just take the easy idea, the popular idea. Well, surprise, surprise, if you were in Nazi Germany, you would probably follow National Socialism just as blindly as you do democracy.
 
2004-01-26 08:25:12 PM
Well mavht914 the Nazis may have eliminated crime... but they also eliminated 6 million Jews. Hmmmmmmmmm

Not quite a good balance.

Totalitarianism only works if you're the guy on top.


And so what if Nazis were in favor of gun control? They were also in favor of granting women time off to have children. Just because they were evil doesn't mean that EVERYTHING they did was evil. Just 99% of it.
 
2004-01-26 08:29:26 PM
Not supposed to be "scared away" because they're on the same side as a Nazi.

Sickened by sudden realization of how monstrous, unconstitutional and un-American their position is.
 
2004-01-26 08:31:14 PM
"So if it doesn't impact me I shouldn't oppose it? Bullshiat."

I never said that, and while I do not approve of 100% of the Act, I am simply pointing out its "non effect" on seemingly millions upon millions of people.

You people are trying to insert words into my fingertips.

I want to know what tin foil hat company you buy from, cuz I wanna invest in their stock.
 
2004-01-26 08:33:21 PM
Just read macht914's proflie and had a very strange feeling come over me. I imagine it's the same sort of feeling that a USAMARID doc gets when looking at the ebola virus under a microscope - at once facinating and repulsive. Facinating because the mere fact of it's existence defies understanding or reason. Repulsive because of what it represents.

That's what I felt when I read his profile.
 
2004-01-26 08:35:33 PM
macht914's profile raises one pertinent question:

When did Redfish365 move to Jersey?
 
2004-01-26 08:37:59 PM
MrBigglesworth
"So if it doesn't impact me I shouldn't oppose it? Bullshiat."

I never said that, and while I do not approve of 100% of the Act, I am simply pointing out its "non effect" on seemingly millions upon millions of people.

You people are trying to insert words into my fingertips.

I want to know what tin foil hat company you buy from, cuz I wanna invest in their stock.


If you just want to point out it's non-effect, why repost something that's already been posted?

It doesn't matter to me at all that I'm not affected my the Patriot Act, it's a bad, stupid, heavy-handed piece of law that was passed by a bunch of frightened vote whores that lacked the spine to oppose something with such a swell name.
 
2004-01-26 08:39:08 PM
"Cole declared the ruling ``a victory for everyone who believes the war on terrorism ought to be fought consistent with constitutional principles.''"

This is a victory for all Americans! God Bless America!
 
2004-01-26 08:44:09 PM
The worst part of the Act is the concentration of intelligence gathered by the different agencies. The FBI has very specific rules regarding the collection of data on US citizens. The CIA and NSA have far less restrictive rules, being that their scopes fall well outside of our borders. To collect information using one agency's standard, then to apply it to another agency's investigation, is to do an end run around decades of civil protections.

Hypothetical. Visiting Amsterdam on business. Smoke weed in bar. Have casual contact with local. Local is subject of CIA surveillance. Now you are too. Return to US. FBI now has information on you as a drug user. Big deal, or not? Now try to get a clearance upgrade from the NSA, who check FBI records already. And you have done nothing illegal.
 
2004-01-26 08:59:51 PM
kieran57
Elimnation of the Jews (Even the Jews themselves admit the death toll was not 6 million, now it's closer to 2.5 million) created a homogenous society, fostered nationalism, and directed the hate of the people from internal infighting to focused, outwards hate. It strengthened the Nazi society.

Hitler orginially didn't plan for the Holocaust. He told Heydrich to find the Final Solution to the Jewish Question. The Jewish Question was to remove the Jews from the German society for the aforementioned reasons. At first, Heydrich tried to simply deport the Jews out. Well, he got them out of Germany, but then war broke out and the Jews were re-conquered. Heydrich tried to ship them off to Britain, Russia and America. No one would accept them. Stuck with a race that they had so thoroughly demonized as to remove all functionality in society, there was only one solution left: concentration camps.

You could have saved 2.5 million Jews by simply accepting them like the tolerant people you supposedly were. Instead, by turning them back, you doomed them.

This isn't insane spewing. This is accepted by many prominent, respected non-Jewish historians on the Holocaust. I don't deny the Holocaust, I question the view the media presents of the Holocaust.

In addition, some revisionist historians question the motive of Jewish genocide. Simply, why did the Nazis, the most efficent government ever, let so many Jews survive? Why did they bother relocating Jews and other prisoners from the Eastern Front when the Russians came? Why didn't they simply kill off the Jews as soon as they got them, if they were truly serious about genocide? Why are there so many Jewish Holocaust survivors?

And by the way... why do we never hear about the over 4 million German civilian deaths inflicted by the USSR, the firebombing of Dresden and other cities, and the widespread rape and slaughter of post-war Germany? Go here to learn more about atrocities commited against Germans by the allies.

Please open your mind and question the views presented to you.
 
2004-01-26 09:00:36 PM
Mr. Farklesworth wrote


I never said that, and while I do not approve of 100% of the Act, I am simply pointing out its "non effect" on seemingly millions upon millions of people.


If it harms just *one* American its a bad thing.

Weaver95

That's what I felt when I read his profile

Me too. ;-(
 
2004-01-26 09:04:07 PM
Here is the site: www.germancross.com

Doesn't a href= work on Fark?
 
2004-01-26 09:07:24 PM
And by the way... why do we never hear about the over 4 million German civilian deaths inflicted by the USSR, the firebombing of Dresden and other cities, and the widespread rape and slaughter of post-war Germany? Go here to learn more about atrocities commited against Germans by the allies.

I'm aware of all of those. None of them make the Holocaust more acceptable.

Please open your mind and question the views presented to you.

Why should we? That'll make us terrible prospects for a National Socialist government, won't it? I suspect that dissent is not as essential to that form of government as it is to democracy.
 
2004-01-26 09:08:13 PM
Bfol105

I wonder why. I'm not even going to get into this with you.
 
2004-01-26 09:09:07 PM
Weaver95 Yeah, most people are fascinated, and at the same time instinctively repulsed by the fact that I own a '72 Porsche 914. It's a common reaction.
 
2004-01-26 09:09:50 PM
[Elimnation of the Jews (Even the Jews themselves admit the death toll was not 6 million, now it's closer to 2.5 million) created a homogenous society, fostered nationalism, and directed the hate of the people from internal infighting to focused, outwards hate. It strengthened the Nazi society.]

actually, it weakened them considerably. First off, building a society on the processed slaughter of innocents really does a number on your economy. Secondly, it diverted critical resources from the war effort towards murdering non-combatants. Not that it's much of a consolation, but operating those camps did help drain hitler's resources at a critical juncture.
 
2004-01-26 09:12:58 PM
I can't believe anyone's actually debating this asshole.
 
2004-01-26 09:13:50 PM
[Yeah, most people are fascinated, and at the same time instinctively repulsed by the fact that I own a '72 Porsche 914. It's a common reaction.]

I guess that's what passes for humor in Nazi Jersey.
 
2004-01-26 09:15:11 PM
I guess that's what passes for humor in Nazi Jersey.

In Nazi Jersey, humor passes for you!

/I'm so ashamed...
 
2004-01-26 09:15:13 PM
Guy Innagorillasuit Yes, NS is based on an extremely effective single-party rule, but it doesn't take away freedom of thought like in 1984. In a NS state, your thoughts are still your own, but you can't try to undermine the State with them.

But that's not the point. The point in me asking you to open your minds, is the fact that most of the proponets of democracy scream loudly about freedom of speech, diversity and tolerance - then turn around and cast a blind eye to NS, and refuse to consider it based on their prejudice that it is evil and immoral. Live by your own rules. Don't be a hypocrite.
 
2004-01-26 09:18:30 PM
2004-01-26 09:15:13 PM macht914

Just another ignorant farker who'd be first against the wall if his little authoritarian dream ever came about....
 
2004-01-26 09:20:34 PM
Weaver95
actually, it weakened them considerably. First off, building a society on the processed slaughter of innocents really does a number on your economy. Secondly, it diverted critical resources from the war effort towards murdering non-combatants. Not that it's much of a consolation, but operating those camps did help drain hitler's resources at a critical juncture.

They did not build a society on the Holocaust. They built the society on what resulted from the Holocaust - a racially homogenous state.

And the whole Second World War is full of "What-if?"s that it's pointless to include it. What if Hitler had recruited Russian soliders? What if Hitler took the oil fields instead of Stalingrad? What if Hitler didn't run concentration camps? What if, what if.

By the way-- Hitler did take most of the Totenkopfverbande SS (the camp guards) out of the camps to fight on the Eastern Front in the late war. Not that it helped much.
 
2004-01-26 09:22:16 PM
leathermidget

Yes, I would be against the wall, because I was born deaf. What of it? The state is greater than the individual. Should I reject a perfect society because it does not include me? Read my creed in my profile to understand.
 
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