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(ABC)   One of the little-noted changes in 2014 is that farmers can resume commercial spraying of Agent Orange on their crops and anyone near them. Bet you missed that little regulatory change, didn't you?   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 49
    More: Scary, Agent Orange, seeds, USDA, herbicides, visual field test, Environmental Impact Statement, soybeans, gardeners  
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3186 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Jan 2014 at 2:34 PM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-03 12:42:54 PM
Scientists do not believe 2,4-D was responsible for the health problems in Vietnam veterans that have been linked to Agent Orange. Instead, they have focused on dioxin, a cancer-causing contaminant found in another ingredient known as 2,4,5-T. EPA banned 2,4,5-T in 1985.

Don't let scientists tell you how to see science. There is no such thing as global warming, right?

Scaremongering article is filled with fear baiting
 
2014-01-03 12:53:38 PM
Thanks Obama.
 
2014-01-03 12:55:14 PM

cman: Scaremongering article is filled with fear baiting


No, not really. The article pointed out the very things that you're talking about.

They also neglected to mention some of the stuff that shows up in 2,4-D's wiki article, which talks about evidence that this stuff is linked to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and farking ALS.

People should be generally concerned with crops that allow growers to saturate their fields with pesticides, since as a general rule pesticides are not particularly well-researched or regulated in this country.
 
2014-01-03 01:29:39 PM
That's some mighty impressive reading skills there subby. Seeds. Not Agent Orange.

2,4 D hasn't gone anywhere. I used to load it on ag planes.

/I love the x-ray vision, super strength and 10 inch schlong I got from the the radiation though.
 
2014-01-03 01:31:57 PM

Cagey B: cman: Scaremongering article is filled with fear baiting

No, not really. The article pointed out the very things that you're talking about.

They also neglected to mention some of the stuff that shows up in 2,4-D's wiki article, which talks about evidence that this stuff is linked to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and farking ALS.

People should be generally concerned with crops that allow growers to saturate their fields with pesticides, since as a general rule pesticides are not particularly well-researched or regulated in this country.


ftfa "since the weeds will develope resistance anyway we might as well go nuts, spray it by the ton, and make loads of cash."

/paraphasing a little.
 
2014-01-03 02:36:16 PM
Why would farmers spray their fields with a defoliant?
 
2014-01-03 02:43:24 PM
edmo:
/I love the x-ray vision, super strength and 10 inch schlong I got from the the radiation though.

It makes your penis shrink? I'll be sure to stay away from it.
 
2014-01-03 02:46:57 PM

tricycleracer: Why would farmers spray their fields with a defoliant?


Because their crops have been genetically engineered to be resistant to it.

Also, the headline is completely bullshiat. Agent Orange is still banned.   2,4-D (one component of Agent Orange) was never banned, and still isn't.  The approval of these seeds might lead to more 2,4-D use.  However, 2,4-D isn't Agent Orange and it's use isn't being 'resumed'.  Other than that, great work subby.
 
2014-01-03 02:48:16 PM
Submitter;

img.fark.net
 
2014-01-03 02:56:17 PM
Obama and his ever increasing tide of unnecessary regulation.
 
2014-01-03 03:00:30 PM
If it was good enough for the Vietcong...
 
2014-01-03 03:00:55 PM
Thank God, just when bedbugs were getting out of hand.
 
2014-01-03 03:13:45 PM

tricycleracer: Why would farmers spray their fields with a defoliant?


Because Charlie could be hiding there.
 
2014-01-03 03:20:25 PM
Caget B:
They also neglected to mention some of the stuff that shows up in 2,4-D's wiki article, which talks about evidence that this stuff is linked to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and farking ALS.

That's why you need to read the cites for Wiki articles. The biggest study of people who worked in a plant that makes the stuff - and who had high exposures - showed no link to non-Hodgkins lymphoma (they had the exact number you would expect from a population that size). Or any other significant links to diseases or illnesses.

The same study seemed to show an increased risk of ALS - they had three cases out of over 1500 employees. They point out that they weren't looking for ALS cases, and other studies haven't shown that link, so it was probably just random chance.
 
2014-01-03 03:33:18 PM

Talondel: tricycleracer: Why would farmers spray their fields with a defoliant?

Because their crops have been genetically engineered to be resistant to it.

Also, the headline is completely bullshiat. Agent Orange is still banned.   2,4-D (one component of Agent Orange) was never banned, and still isn't.  The approval of these seeds might lead to more 2,4-D use.  However, 2,4-D isn't Agent Orange and it's use isn't being 'resumed'.  Other than that, great work subby.


Shouldn't the mods be checking if the headline is true or not? Oh, who am I kidding. They get paid by the click.
 
2014-01-03 03:34:01 PM

StRalphTheLiar: edmo:
/I love the x-ray vision, super strength and 10 inch schlong I got from the the radiation though.

It makes your penis shrink? I'll be sure to stay away from it.


No, it does not make it shrink. It makes one that is 10 inches grow from your forehead, like a unicorn.
 
2014-01-03 03:40:39 PM
The lawn safe weed killer I've been using for decades has 2,4-D as one of its main active ingredients.  Keeps the dandelions under control.

The salt-the-earth stuff I use has imazapyr and glyphosate.


indarwinsshadow: [not sure if troll or very stupid]


images41.fotki.com
 
2014-01-03 04:01:14 PM
When I was your age we grew our crops in lead fields and liked it!
 
2014-01-03 04:15:25 PM
G-D- agribusiness Nazis--next thing you know, they're going to be watering their crops with dihydrogen monoxide.  I've even heard that some of that genetically modified corn is grown with nitrogen, which is a known component of blowfish toxin.
 
2014-01-03 04:18:42 PM
As a farmer I see only one solution that makes sense.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/02/14/171817006/when-resistanc e- is-futile-bring-in-the-robots-to-pull-superweeds

Weeding by hand is expensive even though we do it.
We can only work with what we're paid.
 
2014-01-03 04:27:47 PM
Successful troll headline is successful.
 
2014-01-03 04:36:32 PM

tricycleracer: Why would farmers spray their fields with a defoliant?


Defoliants and herbicides are not mutually exclusive (killing everything is a great way to get rid of leaves).

In fact this chemical was the first commercial herbicide and farmers have been spraying fields with it since the 1940s.
 
2014-01-03 04:48:03 PM

ikanreed: Obama and his ever increasing tide of unnecessary regulation.


An empty suit, sent by community organizers, to collect a bill...
 
2014-01-03 04:53:15 PM

dryknife: tricycleracer: Why would farmers spray their fields with a defoliant?

Because Charlie could be hiding there.


Nah, Charlie's up in the trees.

/ or he's surfing. I seem to remember a poorly-recieved "film" where one dude in a porkpie hat said "Charlie loves surfing"

// or summat. I don't know, I'm drunk.
 
2014-01-03 04:54:17 PM

al-Mundane: G-D- agribusiness Nazis--next thing you know, they're going to be watering their crops with dihydrogen monoxide.  I've even heard that some of that genetically modified corn is grown with nitrogen, which is a known component of blowfish toxin.


Nitrogen is also a component of explosives.

/ hang on, someone is knocking at the door
 
2014-01-03 05:11:26 PM
Herbicides and pesticides are, by nature, poisons. We should be really careful about whether to use them and very careful when we do use them.

Ironically, fertilizers are a bigger problem overall because they get in the water and cause giant dead zones all over the planet, but rarely do you get a "fertilizers are killing the gulf" article because a) it's been done and either you already know or you don't care and b) it's less of a human health issue and more of a health of other living things issue.
 
2014-01-03 05:35:00 PM

adamatari: Ironically, fertilizers are a bigger problem overall because they get in the water and cause giant dead zones all over the planet


If we had the will, we could probably build some offshore wind turbines in the Gulf that aerate the water to counter oxygen depletion caused by algae blooms.
 
2014-01-03 06:04:40 PM

Towermonkey: al-Mundane: G-D- agribusiness Nazis--next thing you know, they're going to be watering their crops with dihydrogen monoxide.  I've even heard that some of that genetically modified corn is grown with nitrogen, which is a known component of blowfish toxin.

Nitrogen is also a component of explosives.

/ hang on, someone is knocking at the door


There is a reason you have to give ID and face strict regulations when you buy significant quantities of fertilizer, Timothy.
 
2014-01-03 06:08:47 PM
Whether it's Agent Orange Classic(tm) or not isn't as much an issue as if its easy to get a dioxin contaminated batch or not, and what sort of controls are there against it.
 
2014-01-03 06:12:17 PM
Someday this war's gonna end...
 
2014-01-03 06:13:33 PM
www.anarchyeyewear.com
 
2014-01-03 06:13:34 PM

Towermonkey: dryknife: tricycleracer: Why would farmers spray their fields with a defoliant?

Because Charlie could be hiding there.

Nah, Charlie's up in the trees.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-03 06:14:04 PM

dywed88: Towermonkey: al-Mundane: G-D- agribusiness Nazis--next thing you know, they're going to be watering their crops with dihydrogen monoxide.  I've even heard that some of that genetically modified corn is grown with nitrogen, which is a known component of blowfish toxin.

Nitrogen is also a component of explosives.

/ hang on, someone is knocking at the door

There is a reason you have to give ID and face strict regulations when you buy significant quantities of fertilizer, Timothy.


Yep. I had a grandfather who had a rather large farm. He had a monster pile of fertilizer in a barn, but this was before McVeigh and Nichols put the brakes on that.

/ had a tank of anhydrous ammonia too, method cooks have always stolen from them.
 
2014-01-03 06:14:48 PM

tricycleracer: Why would farmers spray their fields with a defoliant?


Perhaps because Monsanto has developed seeds resistant to 2,4D, similar to RoundupReady.

/Actually it is Dow, not Monsanto, but same idea
 
2014-01-03 06:16:21 PM

cman: Scientists do not believe 2,4-D was responsible for the health problems in Vietnam veterans that have been linked to Agent Orange. Instead, they have focused on dioxin, a cancer-causing contaminant found in another ingredient known as 2,4,5-T. EPA banned 2,4,5-T in 1985.

Don't let scientists tell you how to see science. There is no such thing as global warming, right?

Scaremongering article is filled with fear baiting


Is that when you lay on your arm until it falls asleep, and then have your way with it, while waiting for the the call about your std diagnosis?
 
2014-01-03 06:23:34 PM

fuhfuhfuh: StRalphTheLiar: edmo:
/I love the x-ray vision, super strength and 10 inch schlong I got from the the radiation though.

It makes your penis shrink? I'll be sure to stay away from it.

No, it does not make it shrink. It makes one that is 10 inches grow from your forehead, like a unicorn.


static4.wikia.nocookie.net
Obscure?
 
2014-01-03 06:55:34 PM
Are any farkers in here knowledgeable about how to grow lettuces/spinach indoors?  Difficulty: no greenhouse and probably no natural light.

/Minnesotan
//possibly tomatoes too?  The ones in most groceries this time of year are little more than mushy water orbs with no flavor.
 
2014-01-03 07:32:59 PM

VOCSL5: Are any farkers in here knowledgeable about how to grow lettuces/spinach indoors?  Difficulty: no greenhouse and probably no natural light.

/Minnesotan
//possibly tomatoes too?  The ones in most groceries this time of year are little more than mushy water orbs with no flavor.


I read an article a while back about growing lettuce indoors in a hydroponic way. I think they were using some sort of foam blocks to hold the seedlings, and a timer to circulate the nutrient solution. If you have good Google-fu, that might be enough to help you find it.

Tomatoes were tougher, but I remember them growing in the tapered metal tomato cages wrapped in visqueen or some such plastic wrap.

Good luck. Grocery store tomatoes just remind me of how the real ones are going to taste come summer.
 
2014-01-03 07:37:58 PM

cman: Scientists do not believe 2,4-D was responsible for the health problems in Vietnam veterans that have been linked to Agent Orange. Instead, they have focused on dioxin, a cancer-causing contaminant found in another ingredient known as 2,4,5-T. EPA banned 2,4,5-T in 1985.


Toxicologist here - this is mostly correct.  Whether dioxin causes cancer is still somewhat controversial; it definitely, 100% causes cancer in laboratory animals.  Epidemiological evidence for carcinogenicity in exposed persons is somewhat thin.

2,4-D is currently available at your local Tractor Supply Company as "Pasture Pro."  I buy it myself quite frequently.
 
2014-01-03 08:31:41 PM
Chevello:

I read an article a while back about growing lettuce indoors in a hydroponic way. I think they were using some sort of foam blocks to hold the seedlings, and a timer to circulate the nutrient solution. If you have good Google-fu, that might be enough to help you find it.

Tomatoes were tougher, but I remember them growing in the tapered metal tomato cages wrapped in visqueen or some such plastic wrap.

Good luck. Grocery store tomatoes just remind me of how the real ones are going to taste come summer.


Thanks!  Gives me a base-search to start with rather than lost in a wiki-walk. :)
 
2014-01-03 09:33:03 PM
If the govt  ever did anything bad I am a conspiracy theorist, right?
 
2014-01-03 10:36:58 PM

VOCSL5: //possibly tomatoes too? The ones in most groceries this time of year are little more than mushy water orbs with no flavor.


Buy cherry or grape tomatoes during the winter.  They actually taste like tomatoes.  Full-sized "square" tomatoes are bland year-round at this point.
 
2014-01-03 11:25:18 PM

VOCSL5: Are any farkers in here knowledgeable about how to grow lettuces/spinach indoors?  Difficulty: no greenhouse and probably no natural light.

/Minnesotan
//possibly tomatoes too?  The ones in most groceries this time of year are little more than mushy water orbs with no flavor.


As I understand it, there are well-developed technologies for indoor culture of plants that are quite closely related to tomatoes. And when you hook up the grow-lights and start running them on a long duty cycle, you're likely to have helpful volunteers showing up at your door with advice.

Well, okay, they'll actually be battering down your door, and the "advice" will mostly be along the lines of "HANDS WHERE WE CAN SEE THEM". And they won't really have much advice about tomatoes.
 
2014-01-04 12:06:28 AM
Well if the trust fund babies would quite crying over the GMOs we wouldn't have to have this argument about pesticides.
 
2014-01-04 12:11:36 AM

jfarkinB: VOCSL5: Are any farkers in here knowledgeable about how to grow lettuces/spinach indoors?  Difficulty: no greenhouse and probably no natural light.

/Minnesotan
//possibly tomatoes too?  The ones in most groceries this time of year are little more than mushy water orbs with no flavor.

As I understand it, there are well-developed technologies for indoor culture of plants that are quite closely related to tomatoes. And when you hook up the grow-lights and start running them on a long duty cycle, you're likely to have helpful volunteers showing up at your door with advice.

Well, okay, they'll actually be battering down your door, and the "advice" will mostly be along the lines of "HANDS WHERE WE CAN SEE THEM". And they won't really have much advice about tomatoes.


Meh I have been growing all winter my veggie patch in my basement downstairs. The only people who cover over are neibors who want veggies that have flavor.
 
2014-01-04 12:44:59 AM

alice_600: Well if the trust fund babies would quite crying over the GMOs we wouldn't have to have this argument about pesticides.


It's not that Trust Fund Hipsters are crying over GMOs, as you wrongly assert. It's about truth-in-labeling that GMO companies like Monsanto lobby to prevent from occurring, as well as attempts by them to assert intellectual property monopoly rights over farmers who unknowingly and unwillingly use their products (thanks to seeds floating over to non-Monsanto farms) by sending out threatening letters which are stopped by extortion. ("give us money to use our seedlings that you didn't intend to have on your property, and don't reseed your land with prior year seeds [which was a common farming practice till Monsanto wanted more profits] and we won't sue you")
 
2014-01-04 01:09:54 AM

DarkSoulNoHope: alice_600: Well if the trust fund babies would quite crying over the GMOs we wouldn't have to have this argument about pesticides.

It's not that Trust Fund Hipsters are crying over GMOs, as you wrongly assert. It's about truth-in-labeling that GMO companies like Monsanto lobby to prevent from occurring, as well as attempts by them to assert intellectual property monopoly rights over farmers who unknowingly and unwillingly use their products (thanks to seeds floating over to non-Monsanto farms) by sending out threatening letters which are stopped by extortion. ("give us money to use our seedlings that you didn't intend to have on your property, and don't reseed your land with prior year seeds [which was a common farming practice till Monsanto wanted more profits] and we won't sue you")


Most of which is BS.

The biggest issue with this is the question of overuse of herbicides and pesticides.
 
2014-01-04 09:25:19 AM

dywed88: DarkSoulNoHope: alice_600: Well if the trust fund babies would quite crying over the GMOs we wouldn't have to have this argument about pesticides.

It's not that Trust Fund Hipsters are crying over GMOs, as you wrongly assert. It's about truth-in-labeling that GMO companies like Monsanto lobby to prevent from occurring, as well as attempts by them to assert intellectual property monopoly rights over farmers who unknowingly and unwillingly use their products (thanks to seeds floating over to non-Monsanto farms) by sending out threatening letters which are stopped by extortion. ("give us money to use our seedlings that you didn't intend to have on your property, and don't reseed your land with prior year seeds [which was a common farming practice till Monsanto wanted more profits] and we won't sue you")

Most of which is BS.

The biggest issue with this is the question of overuse of herbicides and pesticides.


http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-10-05/high-court-to-hear-farmer- mo nsanto-seed-dispute This is from Bloomberg Businessweek about a farmer who got sued by Monsanto for reusing his seeds.

http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_agriculture/our-failing-food-system/g en etic-engineering/suppressing-research.html Here is the Union of Concerned Scientists (a non-profit organization of scientists formed in 1969) talking about Monsanto (as well as other companies') suppression of scientific findings on their products.

It isn't BS, you just don't want to admit that part.
 
2014-01-04 01:58:57 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: It's about truth-in-labeling that GMO companies like Monsanto lobby to prevent from occurring


I agree that this is scummy.

as well as attempts by them to assert intellectual property monopoly rights over farmers who unknowingly and unwillingly use their products (thanks to seeds floating over to non-Monsanto farms) by sending out threatening letters which are stopped by extortion. ("give us money to use our seedlings that you didn't intend to have on your property, and don't reseed your land with prior year seeds [which was a common farming practice till Monsanto wanted more profits] and we won't sue you")

This, not so much. That farmer whose case you linked to in the other post? He was buying cheap seeds, spraying them early on with Round-Up to kill the non-resistant ones, and then raising (and eventually replanting) the ones that he selected for resistance. That's a pretty far cry from "getting sued by Monsanto because their pollen contaminated your fields".

Oh, and the replanting bit? Most farmers plant hybrids anyhow, especially for corn, because they're superior in almost every way (yield, drought tolerance, pest resistance, etc.) -- look up "hybrid vigor" for more info. If you save seed that hybrids produce and re-plant it, you're going to be disappointed. Sure, any farmer could plant heirloom varieties or pure strains and save seeds from year to year, but they'll be giving up so much yield that they'll stand little chance of earning a profit. Do you want to dictate that choice to farmers?
 
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