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(NBC News)   Nuns: Covering birth control is a sin. Government: Here's a waiver form, fill it out. Nuns: Filling out that form is a sin too. Farkers: Is moving the goalposts not a sin as well?   (nbcnews.com) divider line 181
    More: Asinine, birth control, United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, Hobby Lobby, group object, Little Sisters of the Poor, full court, waivers, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops  
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3063 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Jan 2014 at 12:20 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-03 09:43:56 AM
"The question here is in order to receive that exemption, they have to fill out a form," says Ian Millhiser, senior constitutional policy analyst at the Center For American Progress. "That form announces to the government that they have a religious exemption. Employees can use that form to get (birth control) from their insurer." The Little Sisters say that the act of filling out the form makes them complicit to birth control, which they believe is sinful."

Well, the form is made on paper, which is itself made from trees.  So, therefore, cutting down trees is a sin too.

/idiots
 
2014-01-03 09:46:11 AM
Do they use birth control?

No?

Then STFU and GBTW.
 
2014-01-03 09:47:07 AM
These nuns are pretty concerned with telling their employees how to behave.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-03 09:52:06 AM
It's odd how someone how someone else exercising their religious freedom is a violation of your religious freedom.

I wonder if employees will have to start providing proof that no one on their payroll buys anything against their religion with the money that they earn.
 
2014-01-03 10:15:16 AM
Ah yes, I remember that commandment: Thou Shalt Not Fill Out A Form Which May Cause Others To Get Birth Control With Their Own Funds.
 
2014-01-03 10:22:16 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Ah yes, I remember that commandment: Thou Shalt Not Fill Out A Form Which May Cause Others To Get Birth Control With Their Own Funds.


It's all there in chapter 39 of Genesis
 (Don't believe everything you read, dear)
 
2014-01-03 10:27:34 AM

James!: These nuns are pretty concerned with telling their employees how to behave.


They're nuns

/they're pretty concerned about telling EVERYONE how to behave
 
2014-01-03 10:42:47 AM

vpb: It's odd how someone how someone else exercising their religious freedom is a violation of your religious freedom.

I wonder if employees will have to start providing proof that no one on their payroll buys anything against their religion with the money that they earn.


The need to invent something like Jesus dollars that can only be spent on Godly materials and goods or paying of families of boys raped by priests.
 
2014-01-03 10:44:03 AM
I suspect even Pope Francis would face palm on this one.
 
2014-01-03 10:44:15 AM
The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty represents the Little Sisters. It's the same law firm helping Hobby Lobby, other for-profit businesses and some colleges and universities that are also challenging the contraceptive mandate.

If by "challenging the contraceptive mandate" you mean "using a law protecting their right to hold their own beliefs, which most of the adherents of their church don't follow anyway, to harass government for not legislating their religious beliefs into law", then yeah - I suppose that's a correct assessment.

Religious people.  Please - listen.  Stop trying to make your religious belief into law.  We atheists are fine with you having whatever beliefs, even if we personally disagree.  But it's when you try to make those beliefs law, and thereby force them on others, that we have a real problem.

Stop.  Just... stop.
 
2014-01-03 11:08:32 AM
Signing a form is sinful but raping the shiat out of as many children as humanly possible is A-OK.  Got it.  Thanks, nuns.  You are truly god's servants.
 
2014-01-03 11:26:44 AM
The Denver chapter of the Little Sisters of the Poor says it cannot even sign a waiver asking for an exemption.

Conscientious objector objectors?
 
2014-01-03 11:28:54 AM

Diogenes: The Denver chapter of the Little Sisters of the Poor says it cannot even sign a waiver asking for an exemption.

Conscientious objector objectors?


Beards for the Becket Fund.  I'm fairly certain this action was not instigated by them.
 
2014-01-03 11:29:16 AM

Diogenes: The Denver chapter of the Little Sisters of the Poor says it cannot even sign a waiver asking for an exemption.

Conscientious objector objectors?


I object to your use of the word objector!  ;)


/lol
 
2014-01-03 11:34:43 AM
Nuns need to STFU.
They don't even get a vote in their own church.

Don't like birth control? Don't use it.
You don't have a right to force your religious beliefs upon others.
Koonts.
 
2014-01-03 11:35:25 AM
So are the employees also forbidden from entering establishments where condoms are sold?

Can employees be fired for ordering condoms from amazon?

Should employees be fired for being dumb enough to order condoms from aliexpress?

After all, they're paying these people so they're enabling them to be able to purchase birth control.   Insurance or wage, it's still a benefit of the employment.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

And perhaps God said "Whoa!  Too many people.  Here's the formula for a pill to control pregnancies, use it".  After all, it's been a long time for the much anticipated sequel to the new testament, things have changed.
 
2014-01-03 11:37:12 AM

vudukungfu: Nuns need to STFU.
They don't even get a vote in their own church.

Don't like birth control? Don't use it.
You don't have a right to force your religious beliefs upon others.
Koonts.


Then why should you make them pay for birth control for others. They aren't trying to ban other people from using it.
 
2014-01-03 11:39:07 AM

Nabb1: vudukungfu: Nuns need to STFU.
They don't even get a vote in their own church.

Don't like birth control? Don't use it.
You don't have a right to force your religious beliefs upon others.
Koonts.

Then why should you make them pay for birth control for others. They aren't trying to ban other people from using it.


I don't feel like my taxes should go to subsidize oil companies.  But not everything in this country is a line item exemption.
 
2014-01-03 11:42:24 AM

Nabb1: Then why should you make them pay for birth control for others.


No one is making them.  FTFA:

"the group is already exempt from the law, because their insurance is provided by Christian Brothers Services. As a church organization, it's excused from the law's requirements."

They're already exempt, so they have to pay for nothing here.
 
2014-01-03 11:54:59 AM
I'm curious how much the birth control mandate adds to premiums.  Is it a substantial amount or pennies?

Something to consider with nuns is that even though the pill as birth control may be considered evil, what about the pill as a form of controlling the period from hell?  They're all women and a hysterectomy would be against their beliefs unless necessary due to cancer.  So they're all bleeding every month.
 
2014-01-03 11:55:49 AM

Diogenes: Nabb1: vudukungfu: Nuns need to STFU.
They don't even get a vote in their own church.

Don't like birth control? Don't use it.
You don't have a right to force your religious beliefs upon others.
Koonts.

Then why should you make them pay for birth control for others. They aren't trying to ban other people from using it.

I don't feel like my taxes should go to subsidize oil companies.  But not everything in this country is a line item exemption.


My religion (it's not mainstream - you probably never heard of it) forbids giving money to asshats, so I want an exemption from paying certain elected officials' salaries.
 
2014-01-03 11:57:10 AM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Nabb1: Then why should you make them pay for birth control for others.

No one is making them.  FTFA:

"the group is already exempt from the law, because their insurance is provided by Christian Brothers Services. As a church organization, it's excused from the law's requirements."

They're already exempt, so they have to pay for nothing here.


So, if they're exempt from these requirements, how do they have any standing?
 
2014-01-03 11:57:33 AM

mrshowrules: vpb: It's odd how someone how someone else exercising their religious freedom is a violation of your religious freedom.

I wonder if employees will have to start providing proof that no one on their payroll buys anything against their religion with the money that they earn.

The need to invent something like Jesus dollars that can only be spent on Godly materials and goods or paying of families of boys raped by priests.


Godcoin?
 
2014-01-03 12:00:06 PM

dr_blasto: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Nabb1: Then why should you make them pay for birth control for others.

No one is making them.  FTFA:

"the group is already exempt from the law, because their insurance is provided by Christian Brothers Services. As a church organization, it's excused from the law's requirements."

They're already exempt, so they have to pay for nothing here.

So, if they're exempt from these requirements, how do they have any standing?


Standing?

/do you really think they could sit with those sticks up their asses?
 
2014-01-03 12:04:07 PM

foo monkey: mrshowrules: vpb: It's odd how someone how someone else exercising their religious freedom is a violation of your religious freedom.

I wonder if employees will have to start providing proof that no one on their payroll buys anything against their religion with the money that they earn.

The need to invent something like Jesus dollars that can only be spent on Godly materials and goods or paying of families of boys raped by priests.

Godcoin?


I wonder what the exchange rate would be to convert Godcoins to regular money to buy porn, drugs and condoms with.
 
2014-01-03 12:06:40 PM
I miss the good old days when the nuns just hit you on the knuckles with a ruler when they disapproved of your behavior.
 
2014-01-03 12:07:13 PM
How do you get a nun pregnant?

Have an altar boy shiat in her coont.

/I love that joke.
 
2014-01-03 12:16:43 PM
So if I don't want my employees to drink alcohol, can I be exempt from lawsuit if I prevent my employees from using their compensation to buy alcohol?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-03 12:24:24 PM
Nabb1:

Then why should you make them pay for birth control for others. They aren't trying to ban other people from using it.

Sure they are.  health care is a benefit just like a salary.  It's no more the employers business what they do with their health care than it is what they spend their salary on.

They are trying to force other people to follow their religion.
 
2014-01-03 12:25:00 PM

cameroncrazy1984: So if I don't want my employees to drink alcohol, can I be exempt from lawsuit if I prevent my employees from using their compensation to buy alcohol?


This is more like being legally required to buy your employees alcohol.
 
2014-01-03 12:25:28 PM

Nabb1: vudukungfu: Nuns need to STFU.
They don't even get a vote in their own church.

Don't like birth control? Don't use it.
You don't have a right to force your religious beliefs upon others.
Koonts.

Then why should you make them pay for birth control for others. They aren't trying to ban other people from using it.


By this logic, your employer is paying for everything an employee does with their compensation, and should have control over it.
 
2014-01-03 12:25:33 PM
The Little Sisters say that the act of filling out the form makes them complicit to birth control, which they believe is sinful.

I'm having a tough time understanding how filling out a form asking to be exempt from providing BC makes you complicit to it.

I'm having an even tougher time understanding how filling out the court forms asking to be exempt is different.
 
2014-01-03 12:25:45 PM
We should have Big Jim turn the firehose on them.
 
2014-01-03 12:27:05 PM
Moving the goalposts is the Catholic Way!

"No man shall come unto the Father except through me." - Jesus, nominal founder of Christianity.

"Also, too, he has to confess everything to us." - Catholic Church
 
2014-01-03 12:27:55 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Diogenes: The Denver chapter of the Little Sisters of the Poor says it cannot even sign a waiver asking for an exemption.

Conscientious objector objectors?

I object to your use of the word objector!  ;)


/lol


"I Object!"
"On what grounds?"
"I wish to stab him."
 
2014-01-03 12:28:22 PM
mimg.ugo.com

Fill out the form biatch!
 
2014-01-03 12:29:31 PM

lennavan: The Little Sisters say that the act of filling out the form makes them complicit to birth control, which they believe is sinful.

I'm having a tough time understanding how filling out a form asking to be exempt from providing BC makes you complicit to it.

I'm having an even tougher time understanding how filling out the court forms asking to be exempt is different.


It's not surprising they don't want a reasonable compromise. Theocrats aren't satisfied until everyone is subject to their religious laws and preferences, and should thus be ignored or sidelined if we want a respectful, free society.
 
2014-01-03 12:29:43 PM
Benevolent Misanthrope:
Religious people.  Please - listen.  Stop trying to make your religious belief into law.  We atheists are fine with you having whatever beliefs, even if we personally disagree.  But it's when you try to make those beliefs law, and thereby force them on others, that we have a real problem.

Stop.  Just... stop.


What they hear.
 
2014-01-03 12:29:55 PM

Nabb1: They aren't trying to ban other people from using it.


In answering my own question, I realized this may have changed your perspective as well.  Here was my question:

lennavan: I'm having a tough time understanding how filling out a form asking to be exempt from providing BC makes you complicit to it.


The answer is filling out the forms means the nuns won't be providing birth control coverage, someone else will.  The nuns don't want to fill out that form because they want to actively prevent a third party from offering the contraceptives

Under the president's health law, most employers who offer health insurance to their workers must include coverage for contraception. A religious organization such a church is exempt, but certain other religiously affiliated organizations can also get an exemption by certifying that offering the coverage violates their beliefs. In those cases, there is generally an indirect way that the health plan, acting as a third-party administrator, must offer the contraceptives to the employees.
The Little Sisters of the Poor Home for the Aged contends that even the act of self-certifying is unacceptable because it would in effect authorize the health plan to provide contraceptive coverage, even if the home isn't doing so directly.


http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/obamacare-birth-control-mandat e- 101673.html

They actually ARE trying to ban other people from getting coverage.
 
2014-01-03 12:30:33 PM
Bad, bad logic smitty.

The waiver form is like telling the nuns "look, we're not asking you to perform abortions yourselves, just that you hire somebody else to do them for you...."

Serious question, though:  with the myriad exemptions for everyone and his brother out there, for various aspects of the ACA, why does the administration have such a hard on for these poor nuns?

Oh, wait....
 
2014-01-03 12:30:52 PM
They think that providing insurance to their employees which includes birth control is a sin.
They also think that signing that form, which would allow their employees to get birth control themselves, would also be a sin.

It appears to me that what they're really saying is that they think it's a sin to not be able to control their employees sex lives.
 
2014-01-03 12:32:43 PM
Hey Subby, if you really understood the issue you would realize the Nuns deserve a Hero Tag so keep the Asinine for you self.
 
2014-01-03 12:33:09 PM

lennavan: The nuns don't want to fill out that form because they want to actively prevent a third party from offering the contraceptives


False, and you know it to be.  Filling out the form would in no way stop you, or any of your friends/colleagues/fellow travelers from stepping in, with your own hard earned cash, and supplying oodles of birth control to anyone.  No one is "actively prevented" from doing anything.
 
2014-01-03 12:33:54 PM
But you know, Bingo every Tuesday night in the multi-purpose room is super-fine.
 
2014-01-03 12:34:06 PM

Garet Garrett: Bad, bad logic smitty.

The waiver form is like telling the nuns "look, we're not asking you to perform abortions yourselves, just that you hire somebody else to do them for you...."

Serious question, though:  with the myriad exemptions for everyone and his brother out there, for various aspects of the ACA, why does the administration have such a hard on for these poor nuns?

Oh, wait....


lennavan: The answer is filling out the forms means the nuns won't be providing birth control coverage, someone else will.  The nuns don't want to fill out that form because they want to actively prevent a third party from offering the contraceptives


Should I be surprised at the staggering level of intellectual (and regular old) dishonesty in this thread?
 
2014-01-03 12:34:09 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: cameroncrazy1984: So if I don't want my employees to drink alcohol, can I be exempt from lawsuit if I prevent my employees from using their compensation to buy alcohol?

This is more like being legally required to buy your employees alcohol.


I don't believe in school vouchers, yet there are areas where tax money is being spent to subsidize religious education for people and I don't agree with it. Can I opt out of that? That's just like forcing me to pay for someone else's religious indoctrination. The only difference I can think of is that birth control has a positive effect on health the health of others, and religious education has the effect of furthering one particular group's view of the world.
 
2014-01-03 12:34:12 PM

Karac: They think that providing insurance to their employees which includes birth control is a sin.
They also think that signing that form, which would allow their employees to get birth control themselves, would also be a sin.

It appears to me that what they're really saying is that they think it's a sin to not be able to control their employees sex lives.


It appears to me that the Farkers here think the real sin is not being able to control how these nuns go about their business of being nuns.
 
2014-01-03 12:35:42 PM

Garet Garrett: lennavan: The nuns don't want to fill out that form because they want to actively prevent a third party from offering the contraceptives

False, and you know it to be.  Filling out the form would in no way stop you, or any of your friends/colleagues/fellow travelers from stepping in, with your own hard earned cash, and supplying oodles of birth control to anyone.  No one is "actively prevented" from doing anything.


Surprise! That's already what they're doing, since this is part of their compensation package, and that's what the nuns are trying to prevent by complaining that filling out a form is somehow a violation of their religious liberty.

Nice try, though.
 
2014-01-03 12:36:25 PM

BizarreMan: I'm curious how much the birth control mandate adds to premiums.  Is it a substantial amount or pennies?


Actuarially, it may in fact be a negative cost, depending on how much the provision affects behavior into not having (expensive) pregnancies.  Which is why the insurers are willing to say "no, you're not paying for birth control... we are".
 
2014-01-03 12:36:42 PM

Brick-House: Hey Subby, if you really understood the issue you would realize the Nuns deserve a Hero Tag so keep the Asinine for you self.


It's not surprising you would think they're heroes. You specialize in manufacturing outrage and moving goalposts. Just like they're doing.
 
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