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(Kotaku)   Intellectual property. Intellectual property never changes. Unless it's December 31, 2013 and the rights to Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics reverts back to Bethesda causing the games to be yanked from GOG. Then it changes   (kotaku.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Good Old Games, fallout, chess tactics, intellectual property, Bethesda Softworks, Elder Scrolls  
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4384 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Jan 2014 at 11:27 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-03 11:35:23 AM  
fc06.deviantart.net
 
2014-01-03 11:35:37 AM  
And this is why you should always reflexively reject DRM in any form without any further consideration. This affects me in exactly no way because I purchased it from GoG with no DRM attached. I own it. Forever. No matter how this plays out.

Can't say that for many games these days.
 
2014-01-03 11:37:04 AM  
Well I'm glad I got them before Gog had to pull them.
 
2014-01-03 11:38:15 AM  
Not that I advocate piracy but I am totally advocating piracy.

/owns em legit turee times over anyhow
 
2014-01-03 11:38:23 AM  

Arctic Phoenix: Well I'm glad I got them before Gog had to pull them.


I wish I had.  Whoops.  Oh, well, I'll just unsubscribe from their emails and no sweat off my back.  Not like I have time for video games anyhow.
 
2014-01-03 11:40:02 AM  

skozlaw: And this is why you should always reflexively reject DRM in any form without any further consideration. This affects me in exactly no way because I purchased it from GoG with no DRM attached. I own it. Forever. No matter how this plays out.

Can't say that for many games these days.


People who own it on my steam still have access as well. In short it got pulled until Bethesda and Valve/GoG agree on terms. It's the worlds biggest non issue and it'll be back up before most people even realize it was pulled.
 
2014-01-03 11:44:57 AM  
That is the most poorly written half-assed effort to convey information that I have seen today.
 
2014-01-03 11:46:03 AM  

Saners: People who own it on my steam still have access as well


Actually, I have it on Steam too. I bought it there during a sale last year and GoG gave it away free about a month ago or so.
 
2014-01-03 11:47:48 AM  
You can still download it from where you purchased it.  You just can't buy it anymore.
 
2014-01-03 11:47:57 AM  

Summercat: Not that I advocate piracy but I am totally advocating piracy.

/owns em legit turee times over anyhow


I still like the now over-used XKCD comic about how if you want to own something forever, you need to pirate it.

I don't, personally, pirate much of anything (the occasional anime, since they're insanely expensive to buy (typically 100$+ for the whole season), and the occasional movie that is 'on' netflix but not streaming.  Or seasons of shows which were released almost a year ago but still aren't netflix-able because the publisher keeps thinking they can wring a littttttle bit more money out of it before the new season airs.

Just not my thing. I buy plenty of my media so I don't sweat pirating a little bit, and honestly, don't see the huge issue. It's been proven time and again that consumers, barring a very select subset who just pirate and hoarde anything and everything, are happy to pay for stuff. If it's at the right price point.

As to the topic? Who the fark has NOT got  a copy of Fallout 1-2-3-t by this point, if they wanted one? The games have only been out for long enough to be in college.
 
2014-01-03 11:48:05 AM  
As long as can still  drink irradiated toilet bowl water to stay healthy.  Then it's all good.
 
2014-01-03 11:51:02 AM  

kroonermanblack: As to the topic? Who the fark has NOT got  a copy of Fallout 1-2-3-t by this point, if they wanted one? The games have only been out for long enough to be in college.


Not sure. Fallout 2 has been bargain-bin for a long time. I re-bought a copy of it for $5 at Wal-Mart like 6 years ago.

Tactics is a little harder to get your hands on but seriously if you wanted to play it you've had 13 years to do it.
 
2014-01-03 11:51:29 AM  
Funny how GoG gave away free copies of all three games. on 14 December.
 
2014-01-03 11:54:55 AM  
If you didnt pick them all up for free its your own damn fault. Couldnt escape that story if youre a fan of the series. Hell it was on the front page of reddit. Gog went down under the load. Besides it will be back up on steam in no time. Standard sleazy kotaku making an issue out of a non issue.
 
2014-01-03 11:55:16 AM  

skozlaw: And this is why you should always reflexively reject DRM in any form without any further consideration. This affects me in exactly no way because I purchased it from GoG with no DRM attached. I own it. Forever. No matter how this plays out.

Can't say that for many games these days.


This. Same with cloud based games and games that require internet. Once the sale of a game is made, one should be able to play it indefinitely without interference from anyone. They don't own it anymore, you do. DRM and "always online" gaming make everything into a rental, no matter how much they tell you it's still yours. They can pull the plug at any time and there's nothing you can do about it.
 
2014-01-03 11:56:28 AM  

wrussell1982: You can still download it from where you purchased it.  You just can't buy it anymore.


Yep.  I picked up all three games when they were free on GoG.  The download links are still available in my account page.
 
2014-01-03 11:58:09 AM  
I got it from gog when was available a few months ago.  Which is funny because I have the original CD's.  And some 15 year old copies of other CD's.  And some scratched up CD's I got on sale some where.

Man I have played waaay too much fallout 1 and 2, and tactics.
 
2014-01-03 11:58:15 AM  

skozlaw: And this is why you should always reflexively reject DRM in any form without any further consideration. This affects me in exactly no way because I purchased it from GoG with no DRM attached. I own it. Forever. No matter how this plays out.

Can't say that for many games these days.


This.  Got mine from GOG as well so I'm good.  But Bethesda should get it back up on GOG.  Fark Steam.  I use it and occasionally buy games there, but if the same game is available on GOG, I will always pick GOG, even if it costs a bit more, because fark DRM.
 
2014-01-03 12:01:24 PM  
How many folks quickly got irritated in Tactics and reverted to only using one squad member to be ridiculously overpowered except in cases where you had to use a vehicle or something?
 
2014-01-03 12:02:05 PM  

orclover: I got it from gog when was available a few months ago.  Which is funny because I have the original CD's.  And some 15 year old copies of other CD's.  And some scratched up CD's I got on sale some where.

Man I have played waaay too much fallout 1 and 2, and tactics.


I was disappointed in Fallout 1 upon replaying it. Fallout 2 was just lightyears better to me in terms of UI and playability. Fallout 1 will always have a special place in my heart though.
 
2014-01-03 12:02:31 PM  
I got mine from GoG when they gave them away for free during the Winter Sale this year.  This puts that giveaway in perspective now.

And I have my CD copies.

2 each for Fallout 1 and 2, and 1 of Tactics.

I like fallout.

//not BoS
 
2014-01-03 12:32:08 PM  

Arctic Phoenix: Well I'm glad I got them before Gog had to pull them.


Yep... they still appear in my library, but there are no longer store pages linked in the descriptions.

GOG.com is a nice resource... DRM-free, so the games get uploaded to my file server here and are available on all my PCs.
 
2014-01-03 12:36:10 PM  

LesserEvil: Arctic Phoenix: Well I'm glad I got them before Gog had to pull them.

Yep... they still appear in my library, but there are no longer store pages linked in the descriptions.

GOG.com is a nice resource... DRM-free, so the games get uploaded to my file server here and are available on all my PCs.


I can deal with the Steam DRM.  I just wish that Valve required all games sold on Steam to either use Steam for DRM management or be DRM-free.  It's annoying to be running Steam, but still having to run the EA DRM software if I want to play this game, or the Ubisoft UPlay if I want to play that game.  Also, it makes Big Picture Mode less usable when Steam has to launch another application in order to launch the game to play.
 
2014-01-03 12:36:56 PM  
I imagine Bethesda will license it to GoG. They aren't stupid.

/... Okay, the original ending of FAllout 3, the inability to understand why fans were frustrated, and the utter idiocy for why you couldn't get THE MUTANT IMMUNE TO RADIATION to do it instead may counter my argument.
 
2014-01-03 12:43:09 PM  

Felgraf: I imagine Bethesda will license it to GoG. They aren't stupid.

/... Okay, the original ending of FAllout 3, the inability to understand why fans were frustrated, and the utter idiocy for why you couldn't get THE MUTANT IMMUNE TO RADIATION to do it instead may counter my argument.


Bethesda is just....a horrible horrible company.  Just farking horrible.   They have some great licenses, but they sure as hell dont deserve them.
 
2014-01-03 12:51:38 PM  

taurusowner: Same with cloud based games and games that require internet


Well... unless it's an MMO or network PvP only, in which case that makes sense.
 
2014-01-03 12:55:20 PM  

orclover: Felgraf: I imagine Bethesda will license it to GoG. They aren't stupid.

/... Okay, the original ending of FAllout 3, the inability to understand why fans were frustrated, and the utter idiocy for why you couldn't get THE MUTANT IMMUNE TO RADIATION to do it instead may counter my argument.

Bethesda is just....a horrible horrible company.  Just farking horrible.   They have some great licenses, but they sure as hell dont deserve them.


Loved New Vegas but never finished Fallout 3.
 
2014-01-03 01:00:56 PM  

baufan2005: orclover: Felgraf: I imagine Bethesda will license it to GoG. They aren't stupid.

/... Okay, the original ending of FAllout 3, the inability to understand why fans were frustrated, and the utter idiocy for why you couldn't get THE MUTANT IMMUNE TO RADIATION to do it instead may counter my argument.

Bethesda is just....a horrible horrible company.  Just farking horrible.   They have some great licenses, but they sure as hell dont deserve them.

Loved New Vegas but never finished Fallout 3.


Well, if you were to buy the whole package now (with all the addons) you'd have the option to send Fawkes in to the chamber.

But I agree, the way they handled it when it first came out was just lazy. Especially to go through all that, decide to sacrifice yourself, and it turns out you didn't even die in the next addon.
 
2014-01-03 01:06:30 PM  
orclover:
Bethesda is just....a horrible horrible company.  Just farking horrible.   They have some great licenses, but they sure as hell dont deserve them.

They just can't write a story worth a damn. The reason people like their games so much is for the freedom to dick around in a pretty world. I'd much rather build a mill in the woods and defend it from trolls than run around yelling at dragons.

Unfortunately with Fallout, even with NV, they had to drop the tone of the game back down to quasi-socially-acceptable levels from Fallout 2.
 
2014-01-03 01:23:13 PM  
Software is licensed, not owned.

Might as well start correcting this misconception now, as technology only makes this fact more apparent.

The future is - you buy the unlimited rights to the software on your 'Steam' Account and it's installed remotely in a cloud that you access from any PC (or device) and play always online.
 
2014-01-03 01:27:26 PM  

Epicedion: orclover:
Bethesda is just....a horrible horrible company.  Just farking horrible.   They have some great licenses, but they sure as hell dont deserve them.

They just can't write a story worth a damn. The reason people like their games so much is for the freedom to dick around in a pretty world. I'd much rather build a mill in the woods and defend it from trolls than run around yelling at dragons.

Unfortunately with Fallout, even with NV, they had to drop the tone of the game back down to quasi-socially-acceptable levels from Fallout 2.


With regard to games like Skyrim and NV, the games are just too damn easy. The only way of making them "hard" is really to have them be annoying - or - to artificially come up with rules to make it remotely challenging like taking off armor or not Sneaking. In my opinion, Sneaking especially in Skyrim and the newer Fallout games needs to be reworked massively. On one hand, an entire style of play depends on it being "OP" and yet it also trivializes the game. I like being able to do anything, but you can't *really* do anything. I loved the fact in Daggerfall immediately starting the game I could kill a guard and steal his armor and weapons which were leaps and bounds better than what you would normally start with, or pickpocket a shopkeeper, or break in and steal stuff. The newer iterations seem dumbed down in that regard.

To your point about story, I absolutely agree. The sandbox with almost unlimited freedom is fulfilling, but the content doesn't really support that style of play in their games. It gets boring quick. I would love to see scaling difficulty and content with more user control over difficulty as well as better "thought out" side-missions/side content. Nothing is more boring when you figure out a game's formula. The Mass Effect series, or any games, probably did the best job I have seen of having the "side content" have a point and be fun. Don't just give me achievements for doing side stuff. Make it mean something and have alternate forms of advancement to the main story.
 
KIA
2014-01-03 01:29:17 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: How many folks quickly got irritated in Tactics and reverted to only using one squad member to be ridiculously overpowered except in cases where you had to use a vehicle or something?


There was an awesome tactics mod called ... uh... Awaken. That was a really cool mod, completely saved Tactics for me. If you haven't tried it, you should.
 
2014-01-03 01:30:18 PM  

Epicedion: orclover:
Bethesda is just....a horrible horrible company.  Just farking horrible.   They have some great licenses, but they sure as hell dont deserve them.

They just can't write a story worth a damn. The reason people like their games so much is for the freedom to dick around in a pretty world. I'd much rather build a mill in the woods and defend it from trolls than run around yelling at dragons.

Unfortunately with Fallout, even with NV, they had to drop the tone of the game back down to quasi-socially-acceptable levels from Fallout 2.


Well, don't forget the modability of their games.

To the point that some people took the Oblivion engine, and literally *made their own game*. Own game world, own voice acting (... German, but there's subtitles), own worldsetting, own advancement system (seriously, it uses exp), own *PLOT*.

It was called "Nehrim", and it's basically another 60-or-more hours of gameplay. FOR FREE.

And they're making one for the Skyrim engine too, called Enderal. (Same worldsetting, though different 'land'). ... And Nehrim was so popular they also have english voice actors for an english version.
 
2014-01-03 01:34:22 PM  

Epicedion: They just can't write a story worth a damn.


I thought New Vegas was an interesting story. I would have preferred a more versatile "independence" option at the end but I thought it was entertaining.

You do have to be pretty twisted to side with the Legion, though. Not exactly a whole lot of dialogue or reasoning behind helping the brutal slavers out - but that was something you could do in Fallout 2 as well and nobody seemed to be upset.
 
2014-01-03 01:35:05 PM  
Felgraf:
Well, don't forget the modability of their games.

To the point that some people took the Oblivion engine, and literally *made their own game*. Own game world, own voice acting (... German, but there's subtitles), own worldsetting, own advancement system (seriously, it uses exp), own *PLOT*.

It was called "Nehrim", and it's basically another 60-or-more hours of gameplay. FOR FREE.

And they're making one for the Skyrim engine too, called Enderal. (Same worldsetting, though different 'land'). ... And Nehrim was so popular they also have english voice actors for an english version.


The modability of their games is fantastic, but time and time again relying on the community to make your game fun and engaging isn't great design.

Not to mention that Skyrim is on the tail end of its commercial lifespan and one of their professional paid DLCs still breaks the main quest and dragons.

But it doesn't matter anymore. Bethesda's getting embroiled in a subscription MMO. It's all over but the cryin'.
 
2014-01-03 01:35:22 PM  
what's the point of pulling the GoG versions of these games? game's already out there, stressand effect anybody?
 
2014-01-03 01:36:43 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Epicedion: orclover:
Bethesda is just....a horrible horrible company.  Just farking horrible.   They have some great licenses, but they sure as hell dont deserve them.

They just can't write a story worth a damn. The reason people like their games so much is for the freedom to dick around in a pretty world. I'd much rather build a mill in the woods and defend it from trolls than run around yelling at dragons.

Unfortunately with Fallout, even with NV, they had to drop the tone of the game back down to quasi-socially-acceptable levels from Fallout 2.

With regard to games like Skyrim and NV, the games are just too damn easy. The only way of making them "hard" is really to have them be annoying - or - to artificially come up with rules to make it remotely challenging like taking off armor or not Sneaking. In my opinion, Sneaking especially in Skyrim and the newer Fallout games needs to be reworked massively. On one hand, an entire style of play depends on it being "OP" and yet it also trivializes the game. I like being able to do anything, but you can't *really* do anything. I loved the fact in Daggerfall immediately starting the game I could kill a guard and steal his armor and weapons which were leaps and bounds better than what you would normally start with, or pickpocket a shopkeeper, or break in and steal stuff. The newer iterations seem dumbed down in that regard.

To your point about story, I absolutely agree. The sandbox with almost unlimited freedom is fulfilling, but the content doesn't really support that style of play in their games. It gets boring quick. I would love to see scaling difficulty and content with more user control over difficulty as well as better "thought out" side-missions/side content. Nothing is more boring when you figure out a game's formula. The Mass Effect series, or any games, probably did the best job I have seen of having the "side content" have a point and be fun. Don't just give me achievements for doing side stuff. Make it mean ...


i have found some mods that make fallout pretty difficult.  i'm level 30, and can still get killed by one good shot, a single deathclaw strike, any explosion, whatever.  also makes the enemies more mortal.  i hated wasting 100 rounds to take someone down and being able to take 1000 rounds without breaking a sweat.

/ however, i also play fallout 3 in fallout new vegas, with a very realistic sewer grate connecting the two maps/quests (mod name: requiem for a capital wasteland, no longer available, but there's a tale of two wastelands to provide the same now).  playing them at the same time has taught me: fallout new vegas has better game play.  fallout 3 is infinitely more fun to explore.  both quests are relatively short and unexciting.  but, fallout 3 has much more fun side quests and aimless wondering.  i still prefer falllout 3's quest, but there are moments where like fallout new vegas' quest more.
 
2014-01-03 01:36:45 PM  

Treygreen13: Epicedion: They just can't write a story worth a damn.

I thought New Vegas was an interesting story. I would have preferred a more versatile "independence" option at the end but I thought it was entertaining.

You do have to be pretty twisted to side with the Legion, though. Not exactly a whole lot of dialogue or reasoning behind helping the brutal slavers out - but that was something you could do in Fallout 2 as well and nobody seemed to be upset.


New Vegas was developed by Obsidian, who are much better at this sort of thing. Not perfect, just much better.
 
2014-01-03 01:37:31 PM  

Epicedion: Treygreen13: Epicedion: They just can't write a story worth a damn.

I thought New Vegas was an interesting story. I would have preferred a more versatile "independence" option at the end but I thought it was entertaining.

You do have to be pretty twisted to side with the Legion, though. Not exactly a whole lot of dialogue or reasoning behind helping the brutal slavers out - but that was something you could do in Fallout 2 as well and nobody seemed to be upset.

New Vegas was developed by Obsidian, who are much better at this sort of thing. Not perfect, just much better.


Ah, right. I feel silly now.
 
2014-01-03 01:44:52 PM  

pute kisses like a man: i still prefer falllout 3's quest, but there are moments where like fallout new vegas' quest more.


Liberty Prime alone was worth the price of admission for Fallout 3.

However, storming Ceasar's place and getting your head punched clean off in his tent was also a great gaming moment. Love it when a game makes you feel like a badass and then WHAM drags you back down to earth like that.

I ended up blowing him and his buddies up with a pile of C4 so big it looked like a pyramid. Walked in, shot the nearest guy right in his face and then ran outside, they all came out, and BOOM. I found one of his eyeballs all the way outside of the fort. Good stuff.
 
2014-01-03 01:45:17 PM  

Epicedion: New Vegas was developed by Obsidian, who are much better at this sort of thing. Not perfect, just much better.


Obsidian tends to come up with really good storylines, they just seem to get utterly screwed by time or the person they're licensing with.  (For instance, Knights of the Old Republic t II they were basically forced to ship before it was done, to meet the holiday market. AS in, literally, they went "We actually need more time, to add a bit more story content." And were met with "TOO BAD" by.. either bioware or Lucasarts, don't remember which.)
 
2014-01-03 01:56:55 PM  

Epicedion: Unfortunately with Fallout, even with NV, they had to drop the tone of the game back down to quasi-socially-acceptable levels from Fallout 2.


Yes that was the thing in fallout games you could choose to do really good or really evil things (and this would affect how people treated you).  In FA3 you could not even kill a child (without mods).  Funny you could nuke a town resulting in their deaths anyhow but being about to shoot them instead was too morally wrong or something.

I know these things without playing 3 or NV myself (but I have seen others play).  I refuse.  These are not real Fallout games no matter what Bugthesda says.  This was Oblivion with guns and a Fallout-ish paint job.  I will not give them money to trample on the FA franchise.

Trivia - FA3 from Bugthesda was not the original FA3.  But the original game got cancelled when it was 90% complete.  It looked rather cool as well.  Such a shame.
 
2014-01-03 02:08:40 PM  
I am actually more excited about Wasteland 2 than the next fallout MMO or otherwise. It appears to be what Fallout 3 should have been.

Personally I enjoyed both FO3 and New Vegas, but I love the freedom of the original isometric games (and I actually played those  after playing FO3).
 
2014-01-03 02:13:42 PM  

bk3k: Epicedion: Unfortunately with Fallout, even with NV, they had to drop the tone of the game back down to quasi-socially-acceptable levels from Fallout 2.

Yes that was the thing in fallout games you could choose to do really good or really evil things (and this would affect how people treated you).  In FA3 you could not even kill a child (without mods).  Funny you could nuke a town resulting in their deaths anyhow but being about to shoot them instead was too morally wrong or something.

I know these things without playing 3 or NV myself (but I have seen others play).  I refuse.  These are not real Fallout games no matter what Bugthesda says.  This was Oblivion with guns and a Fallout-ish paint job.  I will not give them money to trample on the FA franchise.

Trivia - FA3 from Bugthesda was not the original FA3.  But the original game got cancelled when it was 90% complete.  It looked rather cool as well.  Such a shame.


So you're pissed you couldn't directly kill kids?

Trivia - If you want to shorten Fallout, it's FO, not FA.
 
2014-01-03 02:20:13 PM  

Epicedion: Felgraf:
Well, don't forget the modability of their games.

To the point that some people took the Oblivion engine, and literally *made their own game*. Own game world, own voice acting (... German, but there's subtitles), own worldsetting, own advancement system (seriously, it uses exp), own *PLOT*.

It was called "Nehrim", and it's basically another 60-or-more hours of gameplay. FOR FREE.

And they're making one for the Skyrim engine too, called Enderal. (Same worldsetting, though different 'land'). ... And Nehrim was so popular they also have english voice actors for an english version.

The modability of their games is fantastic, but time and time again relying on the community to make your game fun and engaging isn't great design.

Not to mention that Skyrim is on the tail end of its commercial lifespan and one of their professional paid DLCs still breaks the main quest and dragons.

But it doesn't matter anymore. Bethesda's getting embroiled in a subscription MMO. It's all over but the cryin'.


The MMO isn't being developed by the studio that makes Fallout/TES, but rather by a completely separate studio owned by the same parent company. What you said is like saying that Blizzard's screwed because they're too busy making those Skylanders games.
 
2014-01-03 02:24:18 PM  
ExcedrinHeadache:

The MMO isn't being developed by the studio that makes Fallout/TES, but rather by a completely separate studio owned by the same parent company. What you said is like saying that Blizzard's screwed because they're too busy making those Skylanders games.

It doesn't matter -- either the license will become toxic or it'll be marginally successful and provide a negative impulse to developing a new engine with a new full offline game.
 
2014-01-03 02:24:21 PM  

bk3k: Epicedion: Unfortunately with Fallout, even with NV, they had to drop the tone of the game back down to quasi-socially-acceptable levels from Fallout 2.

Yes that was the thing in fallout games you could choose to do really good or really evil things (and this would affect how people treated you).  In FA3 you could not even kill a child (without mods).  Funny you could nuke a town resulting in their deaths anyhow but being about to shoot them instead was too morally wrong or something.

I know these things without playing 3 or NV myself (but I have seen others play).  I refuse.  These are not real Fallout games no matter what Bugthesda says.  This was Oblivion with guns and a Fallout-ish paint job.  I will not give them money to trample on the FA franchise.

Trivia - FA3 from Bugthesda was not the original FA3.  But the original game got cancelled when it was 90% complete.  It looked rather cool as well.  Such a shame.


I was on the anti FPS fallout bandwagon for a long time, and I liked FA3.  I just didnt feel that FA3 felt enough like fallout.  FANV felt like fallout, I dont know how to explain it really but it honestly felt like it belonged to the genre a lot more than FA3 did.  But yea without mods it was a PG-13 version compared to the originals which was sad.  Hell in FA2 you could get work in the porn industry for christ sakes or have a super mutant knock up a hooker.  And has been mentioned in FA if you wanted to wipe out all the kids, knock yourself out!

But judging from what Zen (beth) is doing to the ES franchise I have absolutely no farking hope for FA4 :(  Reports from ESO beta is.......is bad.  Real bad.  At this rate FA4 is going to be a unmodable candy crush simulator.
 
2014-01-03 02:31:58 PM  

Treygreen13: pute kisses like a man: i still prefer falllout 3's quest, but there are moments where like fallout new vegas' quest more.

Liberty Prime alone was worth the price of admission for Fallout 3.

However, storming Ceasar's place and getting your head punched clean off in his tent was also a great gaming moment. Love it when a game makes you feel like a badass and then WHAM drags you back down to earth like that.

I ended up blowing him and his buddies up with a pile of C4 so big it looked like a pyramid. Walked in, shot the nearest guy right in his face and then ran outside, they all came out, and BOOM. I found one of his eyeballs all the way outside of the fort. Good stuff.


it is very satisfying to take down the legion.  but, i'm an XP/quest junkie, so i end up doing as many missions as possible for the legion, just to the moment where I get the safehouse key for the lucky glasses (I like to have a high luck to gamble, because it's boring otherwise).  then, once they give me the safehouse key, it's death to the legion, hello legion assassins.

and the c4.  haha.  too much fun.  that's how i clear out the van graffs.  leave piles of c4 everywhere and then hide in the bathroom.  boom.
 
2014-01-03 02:44:34 PM  

orclover: bk3k: Epicedion: Unfortunately with Fallout, even with NV, they had to drop the tone of the game back down to quasi-socially-acceptable levels from Fallout 2.

Yes that was the thing in fallout games you could choose to do really good or really evil things (and this would affect how people treated you).  In FA3 you could not even kill a child (without mods).  Funny you could nuke a town resulting in their deaths anyhow but being about to shoot them instead was too morally wrong or something.

I know these things without playing 3 or NV myself (but I have seen others play).  I refuse.  These are not real Fallout games no matter what Bugthesda says.  This was Oblivion with guns and a Fallout-ish paint job.  I will not give them money to trample on the FA franchise.

Trivia - FA3 from Bugthesda was not the original FA3.  But the original game got cancelled when it was 90% complete.  It looked rather cool as well.  Such a shame.

I was on the anti FPS fallout bandwagon for a long time, and I liked FA3.  I just didnt feel that FA3 felt enough like fallout.  FANV felt like fallout, I dont know how to explain it really but it honestly felt like it belonged to the genre a lot more than FA3 did.  But yea without mods it was a PG-13 version compared to the originals which was sad.  Hell in FA2 you could get work in the porn industry for christ sakes or have a super mutant knock up a hooker.  And has been mentioned in FA if you wanted to wipe out all the kids, knock yourself out!

But judging from what Zen (beth) is doing to the ES franchise I have absolutely no farking hope for FA4 :(  Reports from ESO beta is.......is bad.  Real bad.  At this rate FA4 is going to be a unmodable candy crush simulator.


Here's the deal, with the FPS mechanics you limit the amount of options you have with game play and RPG/progression elements severely. You are switching from a mathematical base system to a twitch-base system, or trying to bastardize the two together in a hybrid. Many games have tried this to varying degrees of success. The one thing that gets lost in this is well, flexibility and options. You see, I love that in the Fallout games previously you could "build" your character and play entirely differently. That should be expanded on, however with a FPS combat system, it is reduced. It can still be fun, Deus Ex is proof of that, but it will never have as much potential as the traditional Fallout combat system.

All games can be boiled down to their core mechanics to determine what you can do with the game. When you introduce a real-time combat system, RPG elements hurt it. For a skilled player, introducing this RNG element is hamstringing their potential. To a new player, it doesn't really allow them to grasp the full control of the game as they are relying on those RPG elements as "training wheels" or "bumpers" so-to-speak. For example, if you are a skilled twitch player, adding a chance-to-hit component or "accuracy modifier" that jacks with your reticle is infuriating. For a beginner, it doesn't force them to improve their skills, which will eventually lead to them being annoyed more than likely or frustrated. If you take the basic Fallout combat mechanic with hit modifiers, RNG, both types of players can enjoy the game equally as you are introducing a whole new level of strategy.

This isn't a discussion about which mechanic is better, I believe both have their merits, but trying to tie the two together sucks. Stick with one or the other, but by all that is holy, don't try to call your game a "FPSRPG" or some non-sense. The FPS mechanic will bomb when it comes to the MMORPG world also. Players will eventually get bored as the level of competitive play will not be nearly as high as strictly an FPS game. Progression is the motherfarking key to any successful RPG game. The longer you can provide that to players, the more alternates paths you can provide, and the more forms of progression you can provide the more likely you will be to capture a loyal fan base. I am more likely to play the game over and over if I can modify my character and it plays and provides a totally different experience each time. The thing is, THIS ISN'T THAT HARD TO DO! but with an FPS combat system it is. You cannot get away from it all feeling the same, just with different skins or degrees of pew-pew-pew ness.

In short, I am upset that Fallout decided to go a new direction. I would have much rather them introduce the FPS model with LESS RPG elements but better FPS mechanics to be in addition to the traditional model. I was also upset about how "Tactics" tried to replace the Fallout series. I think each game type has its place, but please please please don't combine them to create a hybrid. Continue with the traditional model, and keep things fresh with the new variations.
 
2014-01-03 02:57:30 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: When you introduce a real-time combat system, RPG elements hurt it. For a skilled player, introducing this RNG element is hamstringing their potential. To a new player, it doesn't really allow them to grasp the full control of the game as they are relying on those RPG elements as "training wheels" or "bumpers" so-to-speak.


I was with you until this point. Since VATS was entirely voluntary the entire game could be played without activating it at all - and likewise you can also hammer on it as often as it's available.  I enjoyed FO2 but you've got to admit (at times) it was tiring to walk into an area and suddenly you have trivial monsters grinding the game to a halt. I thought it was a good marriage of the two - just like how Borderlands managed to tack on an actual honest to god RNG and put it right in front of you with stats everywhere and nobody blinks an eye because it just works.

It sounds like you want skills and more story (and who doesn't) but I wouldn't throw the VATS system under the bus... unless I'm just misunderstanding your post here.
 
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