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(LA Times)   CA mandates that illegal immigrants, shining examples of abiding by the law, be issued a license to practice it. 1st beneficiary of the new law snuck in at 17 and faked papers. Bonus: not one instance of the word "illegal" in the article or headline   (latimes.com) divider line 228
    More: Stupid, California Courts, illegal immigrants, individual mandate, Sergio Garcia, University of San Francisco, law license, civil litigation, Wagstaffe  
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1062 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Jan 2014 at 7:20 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



228 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-03 01:14:52 AM
As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

I'll hire the wetback attorney who fought to get and stay here over Harvard boy any day of the week.

Why? He'll actually give a f*ck about my case and not rape me over the price.
 
2014-01-03 01:35:58 AM
1. Kid came over at 17 months, Dad is legal, son is waiting on his green card.  In the meantime, he's not allowed to work, so he goes to school.

2. The ruling says that being in violation of this particular federal law is not reason enough to prevent him from being admitted to the bar.

3.  The article makes it perfectly clear that he's not here legally.  Anyone with a 6th grade or higher reading level will have zero problem understanding that.
 
2014-01-03 01:42:12 AM

BSABSVR: 1. Kid came over at 17 months, Dad is legal, son is waiting on his green card.  In the meantime, he's not allowed to work, so he goes to school.

2. The ruling says that being in violation of this particular federal law is not reason enough to prevent him from being admitted to the bar.

3.  The article makes it perfectly clear that he's not here legally.  Anyone with a 6th grade or higher reading level will have zero problem understanding that.


Remember, the game show is "are you smarter than a 5th-grader", which implies statistically that half the intended viewership is not, indeed, smarter than a 6th-grade reader.

And I'll join NewportBarGuy in offering a well-earned bird to smitty.
 
2014-01-03 03:06:01 AM
He's as much of an American as I am, except he's better educated and has probably taken a terrible career path. But still, deal with it. He's an American.

And "17", subby? Nice comment / green light bait.
 
2014-01-03 03:11:53 AM
Subby seems to be really concerned about laws. I wonder how many laws the subtard has broken in his or her miserable life. I bet they were a lot more serious than crossing a border.
 
2014-01-03 07:21:40 AM
Going for the Stromfront/Liberal flamewar clicks, admins?
 
2014-01-03 07:23:02 AM
Is there some reason that law licenses should be restricted to citizens only?
 
KIA
2014-01-03 07:25:17 AM

qorkfiend: Is there some reason that law licenses should be restricted to citizens only?


There does seem to be a general consensus that if you're going to be an officer of the court and sworn to uphold the law, you ought not to be in violation of it and have a history of deliberately flouting the law.
 
2014-01-03 07:25:29 AM

qorkfiend: Is there some reason that law licenses should be restricted to citizens only?


No.
 
2014-01-03 07:32:24 AM

KIA: qorkfiend: Is there some reason that law licenses should be restricted to citizens only?

There does seem to be a general consensus that if you're going to be an officer of the court and sworn to uphold the law, you ought not to be in violation of it and have a history of deliberately flouting the law.


He wasn't being excluded on that basis, so those aren't particularly germane to the discussion.
 
2014-01-03 07:35:12 AM
"snuck in at 17 and faked papers"

Wow, I didn't know that 17 month old children were capable of sneaking across the border and forging their own papers! Do go on!
 
2014-01-03 07:35:37 AM

KIA: qorkfiend: Is there some reason that law licenses should be restricted to citizens only?

There does seem to be a general consensus that if you're going to be an officer of the court and sworn to uphold the law, you ought not to be in violation of it and have a history of deliberately flouting the law.


Looks like we found derpmitter.
 
2014-01-03 07:40:37 AM

Chaide: "snuck in at 17 and faked papers"

Wow, I didn't know that 17 month old children were capable of sneaking across the border and forging their own papers! Do go on!


He went back to Mexico when he was 9, and then back to the States when he was 17.
 
2014-01-03 07:41:04 AM
As a member of the bar, I have no problem with this guy being admitted.  That said, there is a lot of poor reading comprehension amongst the posters here:

Garcia, a resident of Chico, Calif., came to the U.S. with his family when he was 17 months old. He returned to Mexico when he was 9 and reentered the U.S. without authorization when he was 17.

He did "sneak in" at 17 years old.
 
2014-01-03 07:42:30 AM
I'd have more outrage if he'd snuck across the border as a proper two year old and not 17  months as reported.
 
2014-01-03 07:42:36 AM
I live in L.A., and if you'd like to fill this out, I can drop it by the Time's Valley office for you.
i18.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-03 07:42:50 AM
FTA:  Garcia, a resident of Chico, Calif., came to the U.S. with his family when he was 17 months old.

Can a 17 month old child be held responsible for breaking a law?  Isn't it necessary for the child to stay with his parents?   Wouldn't the principle of  quod est necessarium est licitumapply?
 
2014-01-03 07:43:03 AM
But if they are allowed to get a driver's license then they might also get insurance.  If that happens it might eliminate or reduce the problem of unlicensed and uninsured undocumented motorists getting in at fault wrecks and the victim being screwed.  That "issue" is a great fund raiser for the GOP to scare money out of xenophobic constituents.
 
2014-01-03 07:43:10 AM
He's practicing the law Americans don't want to practice.

/Can we H-1B lawyers? That would be entertaining.
 
2014-01-03 07:45:55 AM

BSABSVR: 3. The article makes it perfectly clear that he's not here legally. Anyone with a 6th grade or higher reading level will have zero problem understanding that.



In other words, NOT hillbilly subby.
 
2014-01-03 07:46:58 AM
People aren't illegal, you racist coont.
 
2014-01-03 07:47:10 AM

BSABSVR: 1. Kid came over at 17 months, Dad is legal, son is waiting on his green card.  In the meantime, he's not allowed to work, so he goes to school.

2. The ruling says that being in violation of this particular federal law is not reason enough to prevent him from being admitted to the bar.

3.  The article makes it perfectly clear that he's not here legally.  Anyone with a 6th grade or higher reading level will have zero problem understanding that.



Dammit, I don't *want* to read the article!

*sigh*

Oh, very well.
 
2014-01-03 07:51:16 AM
With all the big-money, high powered evil that's going in thei country today, if this little story is what gets you upset - do us all, yourself, and the world a favor.
Kill yourself.
Do it now.
I'm not joking.
This isn't "Fark Snark".
If that , in these times, is what you're upset about - kill yourself.
You won't like living in the world to come anyway.
 
2014-01-03 07:53:23 AM
I'd wager that subby has achieved far less in his life than this guy.  Can we swap their citizenship status?
 
2014-01-03 07:57:21 AM

GoldSpider: I'd wager that subby has achieved far less in his life than this guy.  Can we swap their citizenship status?


Something about the headline made me want to kick subby in the junk..
 
2014-01-03 07:58:25 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: As a member of the bar, I have no problem with this guy being admitted.  That said, there is a lot of poor reading comprehension amongst the posters here:

Garcia, a resident of Chico, Calif., came to the U.S. with his family when he was 17 months old. He returned to Mexico when he was 9 and reentered the U.S. without authorization when he was 17.

He did "sneak in" at 17 years old.


I'd be more outraged if any of this was the son's fault:

FTA: His father, an agricultural worker who obtained U.S. citizenship, applied for a green card for his son in 1994. The federal government accepted the petition in 1995, but Garcia is still waiting for the card.

tl;dr: Beureaucrats are slow, therefore we should deport the brown people.
 
2014-01-03 08:00:17 AM

GoldSpider: I'd wager that subby has achieved far less in his life than this guy.  Can we swap their citizenship status?



This might go against Article 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, depending on the legal definition of "arbitrarily."
 
2014-01-03 08:01:06 AM

BSABSVR: 2. The ruling says that being in violation of this particular federal law is not reason enough to prevent him from being admitted to the bar.


Point of order: Garcia was never actually in violation of the law that prevented him from being licensed.

The law in question bars law licenses (or any state benefit) to persons without legal status unless the state enacts specific exemptions. The California Supreme Court met in September, and determined that they couldn't license Garcia because of this law; in October, the California state legislature enacted one of the aforementioned exemptions for law licenses; yesterday, the CA Supreme Court said "That'll do, piggly."

An open question that this ruling did not answer is whether or not Garcia, since he's still without legal status, can legally work as a contractor and charge for legal services.
 
2014-01-03 08:02:55 AM
THE LAW IS THE LAW.

Except for taxes, Obamacare and red light taxes. In those cases it is our patriotic duty to resist tyranny.
 
2014-01-03 08:04:01 AM

Kibbler: THE LAW IS THE LAW.

Except for taxes, Obamacare and red light taxes. In those cases it is our patriotic duty to resist tyranny.



You said taxes twice.
 
2014-01-03 08:06:06 AM
Subby is having a good day. They are going to need a bigger boat.
 
2014-01-03 08:06:46 AM
He took our jerb!
 
2014-01-03 08:06:48 AM

pkellmey: Subby is having a good day. They are going to need a bigger boat.


The northeast is snowed in. It'll be fertile fishing grounds today.
 
2014-01-03 08:08:01 AM

NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

I'll hire the wetback attorney who fought to get and stay here over Harvard boy any day of the week.

Why? He'll actually give a f*ck about my case and not rape me over the price.


As a descendant of  the immigrants now disparaged with "hillbilly", go f*ck yourself, mick.
 
2014-01-03 08:11:24 AM

qorkfiend: pkellmey: Subby is having a good day. They are going to need a bigger boat.

The northeast is snowed in. It'll be fertile fishing grounds today.


6 degrees here in St. Louis this morning.  Just waiting for my relief to get here so I can drive home.
 
2014-01-03 08:11:50 AM

Chaide: Three Crooked Squirrels: As a member of the bar, I have no problem with this guy being admitted.  That said, there is a lot of poor reading comprehension amongst the posters here:

Garcia, a resident of Chico, Calif., came to the U.S. with his family when he was 17 months old. He returned to Mexico when he was 9 and reentered the U.S. without authorization when he was 17.

He did "sneak in" at 17 years old.

I'd be more outraged if any of this was the son's fault:

FTA: His father, an agricultural worker who obtained U.S. citizenship, applied for a green card for his son in 1994. The federal government accepted the petition in 1995, but Garcia is still waiting for the card.

tl;dr: Beureaucrats are slow, therefore we should deport the brown people.


I'm not outraged at all.  I figure that the purpose of the bar is to ensure that when you go to a lawyer, you can be assured of 1) minimum competence (they passed a test), and 2) that they have been screened for character and fitness.  As for whether he meets the character and fitness requirements, my personal opinion is that the screening is in place to try to screen out people likely to fleece their clients, which doesn't seem to apply to a person simply because the are living in the US illegally.*

*I think the argument could be made that there is a higher likelihood that they could abscond with a client's money.  My guess is that the argument was made, considered and rejected.
 
2014-01-03 08:14:44 AM

Chaide: tl;dr: Beureaucrats are slow, therefore we should deport the brown people.


Precisely.  People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.
 
2014-01-03 08:18:14 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: Chaide: Three Crooked Squirrels: As a member of the bar, I have no problem with this guy being admitted.  That said, there is a lot of poor reading comprehension amongst the posters here:

Garcia, a resident of Chico, Calif., came to the U.S. with his family when he was 17 months old. He returned to Mexico when he was 9 and reentered the U.S. without authorization when he was 17.

He did "sneak in" at 17 years old.

I'd be more outraged if any of this was the son's fault:

FTA: His father, an agricultural worker who obtained U.S. citizenship, applied for a green card for his son in 1994. The federal government accepted the petition in 1995, but Garcia is still waiting for the card.

tl;dr: Beureaucrats are slow, therefore we should deport the brown people.

I'm not outraged at all.  I figure that the purpose of the bar is to ensure that when you go to a lawyer, you can be assured of 1) minimum competence (they passed a test), and 2) that they have been screened for character and fitness.  As for whether he meets the character and fitness requirements, my personal opinion is that the screening is in place to try to screen out people likely to fleece their clients, which doesn't seem to apply to a person simply because the are living in the US illegally.*

*I think the argument could be made that there is a higher likelihood that they could abscond with a client's money.  My guess is that the argument was made, considered and rejected.


That's pretty much it; the CA State Bar has already done the character and fitness screening (that's how they know about the fake number on the job application and the citation for driving without a license or insurance) and have determined that there's no problem there. It's worth noting that the CA Supreme Court has final say over all law licenses issued in the state and that Garcia was represented by the State Bar before the Court, so it's pretty clear that the State Bar has zero issues with Garcia personally and that the only holdup was this federal law.
 
2014-01-03 08:19:38 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: Garcia, a resident of Chico, Calif., came to the U.S. with his family when he was 17 months old. He returned to Mexico when he was 9 and reentered the U.S. without authorization when he was 17.

He did "sneak in" at 17 years old.


That's like charging someone who stole a car and drove it to work every day for a month with 30 separate counts of grand theft auto because every time he drove it he was breaking into a car that wasn't his.
 
2014-01-03 08:19:43 AM
Ok... So Jay Hernandez is an 'illegal' lawyer who takes cases American lawyers won't take. We get Edward James Olmos to play his dad, who uses folksy Chicano wisdom to help his son win his cases and do better in his personal life, and we got ourselves a show.
 
2014-01-03 08:21:18 AM

3.bp.blogspot.com


"Hello?  Yes, some squealing moron from the internet has asked me to tell you that once,

when I was in junior high, I shoplifted an entire case of Big League Chew...Yep...Grape...The next time was a pack of Bartles & Jaymes...I forget which one.  No? OK, sorry to bug you. Yes, you too.  Buh-bye."

 
2014-01-03 08:22:17 AM
This is unconscionable! Everyone knows lawyers are paragons of legal behavior and vigilantly adhere to the law at all times.
 
2014-01-03 08:23:19 AM

dookdookdook: Three Crooked Squirrels: Garcia, a resident of Chico, Calif., came to the U.S. with his family when he was 17 months old. He returned to Mexico when he was 9 and reentered the U.S. without authorization when he was 17.

He did "sneak in" at 17 years old.

That's like charging someone who stole a car and drove it to work every day for a month with 30 separate counts of grand theft auto because every time he drove it he was breaking into a car that wasn't his.


Um...umm? I'm not sure how this has anything to do with the fact that Garcia "reentered the U.S. without authorization when he was 17".
 
2014-01-03 08:24:27 AM

dookdookdook: Three Crooked Squirrels: Garcia, a resident of Chico, Calif., came to the U.S. with his family when he was 17 months old. He returned to Mexico when he was 9 and reentered the U.S. without authorization when he was 17.

He did "sneak in" at 17 years old.

That's like charging someone who stole a car and drove it to work every day for a month with 30 separate counts of grand theft auto because every time he drove it he was breaking into a car that wasn't his.


OK.  I'll bite.  How?
 
2014-01-03 08:25:23 AM
Finally a story not about Ted Cruz.
 
2014-01-03 08:25:25 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: 2) that they have been screened for character and fitness.  As for whether he meets the character and fitness requirements, my personal opinion is that the screening is in place to try to screen out people likely to fleece their clients, which doesn't seem to apply to a person simply because the are living in the US illegally.*

*I think the argument could be made that there is a higher likelihood that they could abscond with a client's money.  My guess is that the argument was made, considered and rejected.


I told them everything when I did my character and fitness, including when I got kicked off campus and told I couldn't live in the dorms anymore when my undergrad roommate ratted on me for smoking pot in my dorm room. I have no idea how this guy passed character and fitness because they asked for everywhere I'd ever lived. I even had to give them my APO's for those two years I spent in Iraq.
 
2014-01-03 08:26:38 AM

Ivandrago: Three Crooked Squirrels: 2) that they have been screened for character and fitness.  As for whether he meets the character and fitness requirements, my personal opinion is that the screening is in place to try to screen out people likely to fleece their clients, which doesn't seem to apply to a person simply because the are living in the US illegally.*

*I think the argument could be made that there is a higher likelihood that they could abscond with a client's money.  My guess is that the argument was made, considered and rejected.

I told them everything when I did my character and fitness, including when I got kicked off campus and told I couldn't live in the dorms anymore when my undergrad roommate ratted on me for smoking pot in my dorm room. I have no idea how this guy passed character and fitness because they asked for everywhere I'd ever lived. I even had to give them my APO's for those two years I spent in Iraq.


What makes you think the Bar didn't ask or that Garcia didn't tell them?
 
2014-01-03 08:29:49 AM

Ivandrago: Three Crooked Squirrels: 2) that they have been screened for character and fitness.  As for whether he meets the character and fitness requirements, my personal opinion is that the screening is in place to try to screen out people likely to fleece their clients, which doesn't seem to apply to a person simply because the are living in the US illegally.*

*I think the argument could be made that there is a higher likelihood that they could abscond with a client's money.  My guess is that the argument was made, considered and rejected.

I told them everything when I did my character and fitness, including when I got kicked off campus and told I couldn't live in the dorms anymore when my undergrad roommate ratted on me for smoking pot in my dorm room. I have no idea how this guy passed character and fitness because they asked for everywhere I'd ever lived. I even had to give them my APO's for those two years I spent in Iraq.


I don't pretend to know how he passed, but he did.  CSB - one of my law school classmates got arrested a few times in law school.  A DUI and unpaid child support, I think.  He was law review, so he was no dummy, but when he applied for the bar (either in OK or TX, not sure which one), he was told to stay clean and reapply in one year.  Basically given a one year period to prove he got his act together.  He did, and reapplied and passed the bar.  His first job was with Enron.  I always thought it was kind of funny that the one guy I knew that had problems with character and fitness was hired out of the box by Enron.
 
2014-01-03 08:31:35 AM

qorkfiend: What makes you think the Bar didn't ask or that Garcia didn't tell them?


He probably told them. They scare you so much during that process that you tell them everything. They tell you non-disclosure of something bad will disqualify you faster than disclosure, so I'm fairly sure he told them, but you have no idea what will keep you from being allowed to take the test. I know people with 1 DUI who were forced to wait a year and people with 2 who were allowed to sit for the exam. You never really know. I figure in California, moving back and forth between Mexico and the US is fairly common so they probably didn't think much of it.
 
2014-01-03 08:34:16 AM
Three Crooked Squirrels:I told them everything when I did my character and fitness, including when I got kicked off campus and told I couldn't live in the dorms anymore when my undergrad roommate ratted on me for smoking pot in my dorm room. I have no idea how this guy passed character and fitness because they asked for everywhere I'd ever lived. I even had to give them my APO's for those two years I spent in Iraq.

I don't pretend to know how he passed, but he did.  CSB - one of my law school classmates got arrested a few times in law school.  A DUI and unpaid child support, I think.  He was law review, so he was no dummy, but when he applied for the bar (either in OK or TX, not sure which one), he was told to stay clean and reapply in one year.  Basically given a one year period to prove he got his act together.  He did, and reapplied and passed the bar.  His first job was with Enron.  I always thought it was kind of funny that the one guy I knew that had problems with character and fitness was hired out of the box by Enron.


We had a registered sex offender in my class. We don't think he took the bar, but no one has heard from him since graduation.
 
2014-01-03 08:36:36 AM
It seems subby is full of envy this morning.  Having to look on someone who loved freedom so much that against all odds has done more with less than maybe subby has done their whole life.

History is not on those like subby's side.  This has happened before and they have lost every time.  If subby is a person of faith as I am then they know even God is not on their side.  As the great MLK said, the arch of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice.  The defeat of the radical right is nigh, I can feel it.  The defeat of the monied oligarchy that has sought to disenfranchise voters and blame the poor for miseries they caused, is nigh.  The American people are about to break the backbone of their power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAYITODNvlM
 
2014-01-03 08:37:37 AM
Never in the field of human butthurt has so much butt been so hurt so much.
 
2014-01-03 08:40:25 AM
Hateful subby is hateful.
 
2014-01-03 08:43:10 AM
I'd rather have illegal Mexicans than teabaggers any day. Illegal Mexicans love America.
 
2014-01-03 08:43:22 AM

KIA: qorkfiend: Is there some reason that law licenses should be restricted to citizens only?

There does seem to be a general consensus that if you're going to be an officer of the court and sworn to uphold the law, you ought not to be in violation of it and have a history of deliberately flouting the law.


Except for the fact that simply being an undocumented immigrant is a civil matter and not technically in violation of the law.  Now, people who are in the country without papers often do break other laws (Social Security fraud, Claiming to be a citizen, etc...) and if they are caught and deported they are then prohibited from entry into the US which would lead to them being illegal if they return.  The point I am making is that the law sees a distinction between "Undocumented" and "Illegal" and that being undocumented is not a crime.
 
2014-01-03 08:44:26 AM
Subby, do you need some kind of cream for that case If butthurt that you have come down with? It sounds like a rather advanced case, actually.
 
2014-01-03 08:44:32 AM
As somebody who did the whole visa/green card/citizenship path the long, hard way, going to every INS interview, presenting every paper, paying every fee, and working damned hard for the legal right to be here, I say...

...I'm OK with this.

The whole immigration system is just a ridiculous bureaucratic mess. Yes, they are here "illegally"... not because they broke any basic moral precept, but purely because they didn't follow an arbitrary paper trail. On any objective scale, the "wrong" that they have done is right up there with rolling through a Stop sign when there was no traffic around apart from that one cop car that saw you do it.

So yes, I know, some idiot will be along any moment now to pretend that I'm saying that if this law isn't important then no law is important (seen that); or that you can't be selective about the law or you are "rewarding" crime (hint: if you ever committed a traffic offense and the cop let you off with a warning, you already benefited from the law being selective); or that we might as well throw open the borders to criminals and terrorists (scare much?). I'm used to that. Basically, if your argument boils down to "It's illegal because it's illegal", then resorting to hyperbole is probably all you have left.

Also, the whole "they should pay a fine, leave the country, and go to the back of the queue" thing is complete nonsense. If I were to say that somebody who got a speeding ticket should lose their license and go to the back of the queue to get a new one, you would very reasonably say "that's ridiculous, it's completely out of proportion to the offense. And besides, there is no 'queue' for driving licenses, so what does that even mean?". And I would reply: "Precisely."
 
2014-01-03 08:44:48 AM
Humans like to live, to survive.
In order to do so when pressed not to they have two choices.
Fight or flight.
Now, you can fight for your freedom, or you can fly to it.
But you can't oppress those who wish to survive.

Unless you are one who would deny them life, survival.
 
2014-01-03 08:47:00 AM
It has been my experience that people who enter this country illegally tend to be far more law abiding and productive than the people who froth at the mouth at the mere mention of "illegals."
 
2014-01-03 08:49:57 AM

wellreadneck: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

I'll hire the wetback attorney who fought to get and stay here over Harvard boy any day of the week.

Why? He'll actually give a f*ck about my case and not rape me over the price.

As a descendant of  the immigrants now disparaged with "hillbilly", go f*ck yourself, mick.


So you dont like the irish huh? double f*ck you. How many generations inbred are you anyways?
 
2014-01-03 08:51:38 AM

czetie: or that we might as well throw open the borders to criminals and terrorists (scare much?)


Hell, if a criminal or terrorist wanted to roll up into the US, get a Bachelor's, take the LSAT, graduate from law school, pass the bar exam, and pass the state bar's character and fitness exam - not to mention paying for all of that - I'd probably let them be a lawyer too.
 
2014-01-03 08:52:35 AM
So are we concerned that illegal immigrant lawyers are going to be stealing work from our hard-working American lawyers?
 
2014-01-03 08:53:18 AM

Teufelaffe: It has been my experience that people who enter this country illegally tend to be far more law abiding and productive than the people who froth at the mouth at the mere mention of "illegals."


That was a point in a criminology class I took. The crime rate rose with the first generation of those coming in, however.
ymmv
 
2014-01-03 08:53:39 AM
Is it really fair for Fark to be greenlighting headlines that were clearly written by retarded individuals? Exposing their obvious handicap to a wide and unsympathetic audience like this is just cruel.
 
2014-01-03 08:53:57 AM

qorkfiend: graduate from law school,


Here in Vermont, that is not a requirement.
You only need to pass the bar.
 
2014-01-03 08:55:10 AM

vudukungfu: qorkfiend: graduate from law school,

Here in Vermont, that is not a requirement.
You only need to pass the bar.


Haha, I guess that makes sense. Out of curiosity, does that happen often?
 
2014-01-03 09:01:45 AM

Kibbler: THE LAW IS THE LAW.

Except for taxes, Obamacare and red light taxes. In those cases it is our patriotic duty to resist tyranny.


Don't forget drunk driving, copyright law, and the law of averages.
 
2014-01-03 09:06:47 AM
subby: gr8 b8 m8, r8 8/8
 
2014-01-03 09:09:48 AM
Why do people keep brining up the Irish? The Irish are not human beings, therefore immigration laws do not apply to them.
 
2014-01-03 09:11:46 AM

Biological Ali: Is it really fair for Fark to be greenlighting headlines that were clearly written by retarded individuals? Exposing their obvious handicap to a wide and unsympathetic audience like this is just cruel.


i18.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-03 09:12:41 AM

vudukungfu: Teufelaffe: It has been my experience that people who enter this country illegally tend to be far more law abiding and productive than the people who froth at the mouth at the mere mention of "illegals."

That was a point in a criminology class I took. The crime rate rose with the first generation of those coming in, however.
ymmv


What type of crime matters as well. Of course one would expect false SSNs or other identification crimes. I haven't seen a good break-down by type, but it would make no sense that overall crime did not change.
 
2014-01-03 09:13:14 AM

Frank N Stein: Why do people keep brining up the Irish? The Irish are not human beings, therefore immigration laws do not apply to them.


We keep brining them up so they won't spoil, just like you would a corned beef.
 
2014-01-03 09:17:00 AM
California: Stupid is as Stupid does
 
2014-01-03 09:19:07 AM
Dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.
 
2014-01-03 09:21:25 AM
This seems like one of those really narrow rulings that doesn't farking matter much, really how many illegals went through college and law school and then passed the bar. This ruling might impact like what..8 or 9 people?
 
2014-01-03 09:21:59 AM

karnal: California: Stupid is as Stupid does


Thank you for the deep, and insightful addition to what is a layered and complex topic. I see you have obviously paid close attention to the issues, and any further thoughts you have will be greatly STFU!
 
2014-01-03 09:24:19 AM
At least he'll be easy to find when the deportations start.
 
2014-01-03 09:24:39 AM
You know, for a group of people that gets so flustered and mad over 'political correctness', they sure seem to care a lot about the words people use.
 
2014-01-03 09:24:41 AM

Headso: This seems like one of those really narrow rulings that doesn't farking matter much, really how many illegals went through college and law school and then passed the bar. This ruling might impact like what..8 or 9 people?


Plays better in flyover country.  8 or 9 people is the population of entire counties in some places.  In LA, more people get assaulted with hammers on a daily basis.
 
2014-01-03 09:28:08 AM

INeedAName: karnal: California: Stupid is as Stupid does

Thank you for the deep, and insightful addition to what is a layered and complex topic. I see you have obviously paid close attention to the issues, and any further thoughts you have will be greatly STFU!


I got all that from the very first line: "A Mexican immigrant without a green card on Thursday won the right to practice law in California." What kind of deep, insightful debate would you like to have? Maybe we could look into the fact that his visa application was being held up because he lied about his legal status?
 
2014-01-03 09:32:52 AM
Just what we need is more lawyers. Can you imagine a world without lawyers?
 
2014-01-03 09:35:01 AM
It has been said, but can never be repeated enough.

People are not illegal . . . their actions may be, but fundamentally a person or people should never be classified as legal or illegal.

When you kill someone intentionally, you are a murderer . . . not an illegal.

When you go past the speed limit, you are a scofflaw . . . not an illegal.

When you enter a country undocumented, you are an undocumented person . . . not illegal.
 
2014-01-03 09:36:47 AM

GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.


More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?
 
2014-01-03 09:39:23 AM

Snarfangel: GoldSpider: I'd wager that subby has achieved far less in his life than this guy.  Can we swap their citizenship status?


This might go against Article 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, depending on the legal definition of "arbitrarily."


I used to work for a wealthy fark who would hire illegal aliens to work in the warehouse. I would love to see him stripped of his fortune and citizenship then deported to Somalia or some other shiathole. The illegal immigrants were some of the nicest and hard working people I have ever met. if it were my call they have earned the right to be here as citizens.
 
2014-01-03 09:40:09 AM

Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?


Yeah, waiting nearly 20 years for a green card (Garcia's petition was accepted by the government in 1995) sounds totally reasonable.
 
2014-01-03 09:41:00 AM
Conservative PC police strike again.   "Call people illegals or else!"
 
2014-01-03 09:42:14 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com

Subby
 
2014-01-03 09:43:59 AM

MetryPapi: It has been said, but can never be repeated enough.

People are not illegal . . . their actions may be, but fundamentally a person or people should never be classified as legal or illegal.

When you kill someone intentionally, you are a murderer . . . not an illegal.

When you go past the speed limit, you are a scofflaw . . . not an illegal.

When you enter a country undocumented, you are an undocumented person . . . not illegal.


How about unlawful?  Can we call them unlawful immigrants? Or if we all want to be strictly literal, should we just refer to them as crimminals?
 
2014-01-03 09:44:14 AM
The immigration debate is weird. Suddenly small gubmint conservatives are up in arms demanding that all paperwork filled out and filed in triplicate and liberals don't think the state should have authority to regulate its own borders.

Shiat don't make sense y'all.
 
2014-01-03 09:45:53 AM

karnal: MetryPapi: It has been said, but can never be repeated enough.

People are not illegal . . . their actions may be, but fundamentally a person or people should never be classified as legal or illegal.

When you kill someone intentionally, you are a murderer . . . not an illegal.

When you go past the speed limit, you are a scofflaw . . . not an illegal.

When you enter a country undocumented, you are an undocumented person . . . not illegal.

How about unlawful?  Can we call them unlawful immigrants? Or if we all want to be strictly literal, should we just refer to them as crimminals?


His opinion is you shouldn't call them illegals, you can call them whatever you want Mr Victim.
 
2014-01-03 09:47:08 AM

karnal: Maybe we could look into the fact that his visa application was being held up because he lied about his legal status?


You know how I know that you don't know jack shiat about the visa process and didn't actually read the article?
 
2014-01-03 09:50:19 AM

MetryPapi: It has been said, but can never be repeated enough.

People are not illegal . . . their actions may be, but fundamentally a person or people should never be classified as legal or illegal.

When you kill someone intentionally, you are a murderer . . . not an illegal.

When you go past the speed limit, you are a scofflaw . . . not an illegal.

When you enter a country undocumented, you are an undocumented person . . . not illegal.


By your addition of an before Illegal you have transfered the word into a noun.  This removes the verb definition and allows for the noun to be defined by context, in this case an illegal is an undocumented immigrant.  Yes you can be an illegal.
 
2014-01-03 09:50:22 AM

Ned Stark: The immigration debate is weird. Suddenly small gubmint conservatives are up in arms demanding that all paperwork filled out and filed in triplicate and liberals don't think the state should have authority to regulate its own borders.

Shiat don't make sense y'all.


Nice strawman.
 
2014-01-03 09:51:09 AM

Chaide: "snuck in at 17 and faked papers"

Wow, I didn't know that 17 month old children were capable of sneaking across the border and forging their own papers! Do go on!


10/10 for subby!
 
2014-01-03 09:51:54 AM

Ned Stark: The immigration debate is weird. Suddenly small gubmint conservatives are up in arms demanding that all paperwork filled out and filed in triplicate and liberals don't think the state should have authority to regulate its own borders.

Shiat don't make sense y'all.


Well, in the first place, there are no small government conservatives. Conservatives LOVE big government. They just want a different big government than "liberals." One that puts Those People in their place. And kills lots and lots of people.
 
2014-01-03 09:52:16 AM

Ned Stark: The immigration debate is weird. Suddenly small gubmint conservatives are up in arms demanding that all paperwork filled out and filed in triplicate and liberals don't think the state should have authority to regulate its own borders.

Shiat don't make sense y'all.


That's not even wrong.
 
2014-01-03 09:55:49 AM

KIA: qorkfiend: Is there some reason that law licenses should be restricted to citizens only?

There does seem to be a general consensus that if you're going to be an officer of the court and sworn to uphold the law, you ought not to be in violation of it and have a history of deliberately flouting the law.


I know people who have served time in jail for violating the law (DWI, for instance) and currently practice law.
 
2014-01-03 09:56:31 AM
What a bunch of BS. A guy with a pending green card application is anthing but "undomented."
 
2014-01-03 09:59:13 AM

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Ned Stark: The immigration debate is weird. Suddenly small gubmint conservatives are up in arms demanding that all paperwork filled out and filed in triplicate and liberals don't think the state should have authority to regulate its own borders.

Shiat don't make sense y'all.

Nice strawman.


You can't make the uncharitable assumption every time. People will start to think you're an asshole.
 
2014-01-03 10:00:30 AM

Ned Stark: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Ned Stark: The immigration debate is weird. Suddenly small gubmint conservatives are up in arms demanding that all paperwork filled out and filed in triplicate and liberals don't think the state should have authority to regulate its own borders.

Shiat don't make sense y'all.

Nice strawman.

You can't make the uncharitable assumption every time. People will start to think you're an asshole.


I don't think most Farkers - or internet commenters in general - are particularly concerned about that last part.
 
2014-01-03 10:06:39 AM

KIA: qorkfiend: Is there some reason that law licenses should be restricted to citizens only?

There does seem to be a general consensus that if you're going to be an officer of the court and sworn to uphold the law, you ought not to be in violation of it and have a history of deliberately flouting the law.


So you're saying we're going to have to fire the 90% of people in law since most of them have gotten a civil citation or misdemeanor at some point in life?

Gotta love Black and White world views.  Especially from racists with 1/10 the education of the people they're attacking./
 
2014-01-03 10:07:07 AM

Schrodinger's Basement Cat: KIA: qorkfiend: Is there some reason that law licenses should be restricted to citizens only?

There does seem to be a general consensus that if you're going to be an officer of the court and sworn to uphold the law, you ought not to be in violation of it and have a history of deliberately flouting the law.

I know people who have served time in jail for violating the law (DWI, for instance) and currently practice law.


Hell, you can be President or Vice-President with that kind of record.
 
2014-01-03 10:07:13 AM

edmo: What a bunch of BS. A guy with a pending green card application is anthing but "undomented."


Undocumented Immigrant - A foreign-born person who lacks a right to be in the United States, having either entered without inspection (and not subsequently obtained any right to remain) or stayed beyond the expiration date of a visa or other status.

So per the cite, if you submitted an application while still having a valid unexpired visa, you are not undocumented. If you stay past the expiration point and have no other status given to you, legally you are undocumented. An "illegal immigrant" is a description and not a legal term.
 
2014-01-03 10:07:50 AM

edmo: What a bunch of BS. A guy with a pending green card application is anthing but "undomented."


The guy in question in the son of an American citizen and applied 19 years ago for a visa as a child.
 
2014-01-03 10:09:59 AM
I've gotten away with breaking a few laws in my day, yet nobody ever calls me an Illegal Citizen.

We should build a big wall/fence around the whole country so that the rest of the world can see how freedom is done.
 
2014-01-03 10:11:40 AM

Ned Stark: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Ned Stark: The immigration debate is weird. Suddenly small gubmint conservatives are up in arms demanding that all paperwork filled out and filed in triplicate and liberals don't think the state should have authority to regulate its own borders.

Shiat don't make sense y'all.

Nice strawman.

You can't make the uncharitable assumption every time. People will start to think you're an asshole.


Considering that no liberal ever has suggested that the government shouldn't have the authority to regulate its own borders, it's hardly an assumption, uncharitable or otherwise, that you're making shiat up.
 
2014-01-03 10:14:41 AM
Suck my fat white cock subby. I'm sure you are 100% native american.
 
2014-01-03 10:18:59 AM

qorkfiend: Yeah, waiting nearly 20 years for a green card (Garcia's petition was accepted by the government in 1995) sounds totally reasonable.


Yeah, because one outlier case is indicative of what everyone else has to go through.

/rolls eyes
 
2014-01-03 10:20:25 AM

Wolf_Blitzer: KIA: qorkfiend: Is there some reason that law licenses should be restricted to citizens only?

There does seem to be a general consensus that if you're going to be an officer of the court and sworn to uphold the law, you ought not to be in violation of it and have a history of deliberately flouting the law.

Looks like we found derpmitter.


BOO THIS MAN!!!
 
2014-01-03 10:21:59 AM

Epic Fap Session: I've gotten away with breaking a few laws in my day, yet nobody ever calls me an Illegal Citizen.

We should build a big wall/fence around the whole country so that the rest of the world can see how freedom is done.


You laugh now, but when Rob Ford's army of Canadian crack zombies descends upon us that wall's gonna look pretty good, my friend.
 
2014-01-03 10:23:02 AM

Ned Stark: The immigration debate is weird. Suddenly small gubmint conservatives are up in arms demanding that all paperwork filled out and filed in triplicate and liberals don't think the state should have authority to regulate its own borders.

Shiat don't make sense y'all.


And lets not forget the downward pressure that immigration (illegal and otherwise) places on working class wages.

Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

/foreign born individuals make up approx 12% of us population now, up from just over 4% in 1970.
//not really relevant to TFA
 
2014-01-03 10:23:23 AM

Pokey.Clyde: qorkfiend: Yeah, waiting nearly 20 years for a green card (Garcia's petition was accepted by the government in 1995) sounds totally reasonable.

Yeah, because one outlier case is indicative of what everyone else has to go through.

/rolls eyes


Yeah, because oversimplistic generalizations are entirely indicative of what everyone has to go through.

/rolls eyes
 
2014-01-03 10:24:50 AM

crab66: Suck my fat white cock subby. I'm sure you are 100% native american.


You're quite the ladies' man, you silver tongued fool.
 
2014-01-03 10:25:38 AM

Epic Fap Session: I've gotten away with breaking a few laws in my day, yet nobody ever calls me an Illegal Citizen.

We should build a big wall/fence around the whole country so that the rest of the world can see how freedom is done.


And they'd still be scaling over/digging under the wall to get in here, wouldn't they?
 
2014-01-03 10:26:04 AM

Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?


You quite literally have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you?

I went through that immigration system...
 
2014-01-03 10:28:27 AM

Pokey.Clyde: qorkfiend: Yeah, waiting nearly 20 years for a green card (Garcia's petition was accepted by the government in 1995) sounds totally reasonable.

Yeah, because one outlier case is indicative of what everyone else has to go through.

/rolls eyes


It takes 6-28 years, so 18 years is hardly an outlier.
 
2014-01-03 10:28:32 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).


This is kinda dumb for two reasons.

1. Deportations are at record highs under the current administration.
2. Raising minimum wage is the fastest, simplest, and most pragmatic way to raise wages.
 
2014-01-03 10:32:08 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).


Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861
 
2014-01-03 10:32:53 AM

Schrodinger's Basement Cat: KIA: qorkfiend: Is there some reason that law licenses should be restricted to citizens only?

There does seem to be a general consensus that if you're going to be an officer of the court and sworn to uphold the law, you ought not to be in violation of it and have a history of deliberately flouting the law.

I know people who have served time in jail for violating the law (DWI, for instance) and currently practice law.


What SBC said. I know people who routinely break the speed limit and currently practice law. We should strip them off their driver's license and make them go to the back of the line for a new one!

If the ONE LAW that somebody has broken is that they crossed the border without filling out the necessary paperwork... well, I promise you that probably 80% of the people currently practicing law, presiding over courts, or otherwise working in the court system have done things that are at least as unethical or immoral. How many times does it need to be said that being an "illegal alien" is a crime against bureaucracy. It's about as victimless a crime as it is conceivably possible to commit.
 
2014-01-03 10:32:57 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

This is kinda dumb for two reasons.

1. Deportations are at record highs under the current administration.
2. Raising minimum wage is the fastest, simplest, and most pragmatic way to raise wages.


1). We still have triple the percentage of foreign born residents than we did in 1970. Current deportations increasing is great and all, but irrelevant to the fact that more immigrants = lower wages.
2). Nope. It might be fast but it certainly isn't pragmatic. Deadweight loss FTL.
 
2014-01-03 10:33:43 AM

serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861


Are we deliberately ignoring the fact that deportations are at a record high under this administration?

Also, lol @ "untenable wages".
 
2014-01-03 10:33:53 AM

czetie: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You quite literally have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you?

I went through that immigration system...



You wear it well.
 
2014-01-03 10:34:37 AM

Wyalt Derp: Never in the field of human butthurt has so much butt been so hurt so much.



What about that one time?
 
2014-01-03 10:36:33 AM

serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861


Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.
 
2014-01-03 10:38:13 AM

qorkfiend: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Are we deliberately ignoring the fact that deportations are at a record high under this administration?

Also, lol @ "untenable wages".



Yeah, but he still blames Bush.
 
2014-01-03 10:38:18 AM

qorkfiend: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Are we deliberately ignoring the fact that deportations are at a record high under this administration?

Also, lol @ "untenable wages".


That's terrific. Lets keep it up and expand on it. The more we do that, market wages for working class Americans will improve.
 
2014-01-03 10:39:01 AM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: wellreadneck: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

I'll hire the wetback attorney who fought to get and stay here over Harvard boy any day of the week.

Why? He'll actually give a f*ck about my case and not rape me over the price.

As a descendant of  the immigrants now disparaged with "hillbilly", go f*ck yourself, mick.

So you dont like the irish huh? double f*ck you. How many generations inbred are you anyways?



I didn't realize we were in the presence of European Royalty.

/Family tree: bonsai
 
2014-01-03 10:39:38 AM

qorkfiend: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Are we deliberately ignoring the fact that deportations are at a record high under this administration?

Also, lol @ "untenable wages".


I'm confident that if we looked at the number of unique individuals being deported, it would be the same as previous years.  It's the same guys getting deported and just turning around and heading right back.  They have to pay off a coyote each time, who has a connection to the drug cartels, who in turn bribe Democratic politicians in favor of marijuana legalization.  Duh.
 
2014-01-03 10:41:06 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).


shocker, the oligarch defender friends want to spend taxpayer money on nothing that will help middle class and poor people but suddenly can find the hundreds of billions for law enforcement and the court system to deport millions of people.
 
2014-01-03 10:42:04 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: qorkfiend: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Are we deliberately ignoring the fact that deportations are at a record high under this administration?

Also, lol @ "untenable wages".

That's terrific. Lets keep it up and expand on it. The more we do that, market wages for working class Americans will improve.


Most certainly. Could we couple it with greater enforcement of current labor law so that it's no longer cheap or easy to hire immigrants at rock-bottom wages, thereby removing the reason most undocumented immigrants to come here in the first place? Attacking the problem from both sides, as it were.
 
2014-01-03 10:42:59 AM
I'd ask if this guy took Subby's "jerb", but it's clear that Subby doesn't possess the mental capacity to practice law.
 
2014-01-03 10:43:11 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: UrukHaiGuyz: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

This is kinda dumb for two reasons.

1. Deportations are at record highs under the current administration.
2. Raising minimum wage is the fastest, simplest, and most pragmatic way to raise wages.

1). We still have triple the percentage of foreign born residents than we did in 1970. Current deportations increasing is great and all, but irrelevant to the fact that more immigrants = lower wages.


That's one (relatively insignificant) factor in how wages are determined. If we're seeing more deportation, why aren't wages going up correspondingly? The fact is, many employers only pay the mandated minimum, especially in a depressed job market.

Are you sure the higher percentage isn't just a function of lower U.S. birthrates?

2). Nope. It might be fast but it certainly isn't pragmatic. Deadweight loss FTL.

Any deadweight loss would be immediately outweighed by increased consumer demand.  With current record profits and anemic demand, combined with historically high income inequality, it's pretty obvious that wages are lower than they should be. The current status quo is unsustainable.
 
2014-01-03 10:43:19 AM

serial_crusher: qorkfiend: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Are we deliberately ignoring the fact that deportations are at a record high under this administration?

Also, lol @ "untenable wages".

I'm confident that if we looked at the number of unique individuals being deported, it would be the same as previous years.  It's the same guys getting deported and just turning around and heading right back.  They have to pay off a coyote each time, who has a connection to the drug cartels, who in turn bribe Democratic politicians in favor of marijuana legalization.  Duh.


Good to know that your confidence is a suitable replacement for, you know, actual data.
 
2014-01-03 10:43:41 AM
Natural born citizen:

cdn3-www.craveonline.com
 
2014-01-03 10:44:40 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.


Really? Nothing else could have an effect, huh? I'd like to see your research, and how you handled other externalities. Because I suspect that, as usual, you are a liar/idiot.
 
2014-01-03 10:48:57 AM

Gordon Bennett: People aren't illegal, you racist coont.



His presence in the United States is a violation of Federal immigration law.
He should be deported.
 
2014-01-03 10:49:03 AM

tricycleracer: I'd ask if this guy took Subby's "jerb", but it's clear that Subby doesn't possess the mental capacity to practice law.

 
2014-01-03 10:50:13 AM

GoldSpider: Chaide: tl;dr: Beureaucrats are slow, therefore we should deport the brown people.

Precisely.  People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.


Exactly! It could even be a source of revenue, or, at least, cover costs. People already pay smugglers and other nefarious types to get in, they might as well pay the government instead.
 
2014-01-03 10:50:32 AM

qorkfiend: Debeo Summa Credo: qorkfiend: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Are we deliberately ignoring the fact that deportations are at a record high under this administration?

Also, lol @ "untenable wages".

That's terrific. Lets keep it up and expand on it. The more we do that, market wages for working class Americans will improve.

Most certainly. Could we couple it with greater enforcement of current labor law so that it's no longer cheap or easy to hire immigrants at rock-bottom wages, thereby removing the reason most undocumented immigrants to come here in the first place? Attacking the problem from both sides, as it were.


Oh yes, absolutely. In fact your proposal is probably a lot more pragmatic and implementable.

Tougher enforcement/higher penalties for employers using illegal labor would be effective IMO, and fair.

If we have to pay more for strawberries and nannies, etc., then so be it.
 
2014-01-03 10:52:25 AM
without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.
 
2014-01-03 10:54:15 AM

Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?


You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
 
2014-01-03 10:54:31 AM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Really? Nothing else could have an effect, huh? I'd like to see your research, and how you handled other externalities. Because I suspect that, as usual, you are a liar/idiot.


There are other externalities, of course. The fact that previously undeveloped nations have turned from subsistence farming backwaters to indistrialization is one of those externalities, that also affected working class wages in the US.

But if you don't think the increase in the proportion of non-US born residents hasn't had a material effect on working class wages, then it is you who is the liar/idiot.
 
2014-01-03 10:56:27 AM

ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.


Are you being denied work because your car is illegal?
 
2014-01-03 10:56:30 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Really? Nothing else could have an effect, huh? I'd like to see your research, and how you handled other externalities. Because I suspect that, as usual, you are a liar/idiot.

There are other externalities, of course. The fact that previously undeveloped nations have turned from subsistence farming backwaters to indistrialization is one of those externalities, that also affected working class wages in the US.

But if you don't think the increase in the proportion of non-US born residents hasn't had a material effect on working class wages, then it is you who is the liar/idiot.


In that case it should be pretty simple for you to cite a credible source on the subject, yes? You're really fixated on this one (small) factor, but you've provided no evidence other than your opinion that it is a significant piece of the puzzle.
 
2014-01-03 10:58:56 AM

karnal: qorkfiend: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Are we deliberately ignoring the fact that deportations are at a record high under this administration?

Also, lol @ "untenable wages".


Yeah, but he still blames Bush.


uhhh... actually deportations are at an all time low for citizens who have made it to america... Border Patrol deportations are up massively due to enforcement which is what everyone asked for. secure borders and immigration reform for those already here and established.
 
2014-01-03 11:00:12 AM

ToastTheRabbit: Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?


I hear there's this new lawyer in CA.  You can hire him.
 
2014-01-03 11:00:42 AM

Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.


The U.S. has been #1 for several years when it comes to immigrant population. We lead the nearest competition by 34,000,000.
 
2014-01-03 11:02:42 AM

Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.


Shhhhhhhhh....We need the comic relief of comments like this. Thousands of dollars, years of waiting, interviews, tests, health exams versus........be a Jew?

Under Israeli law, all Jews have the right to return to Israel. Prospective immigrants apply to the Jewish Agency in their current country to receive visas and immigration status before coming to Israel. Once in Israel, the government grants them special privileges.
 
2014-01-03 11:02:52 AM

ToastTheRabbit: actually deportations are at an all time low for citizens who have made it to america


I should hope we're not deporting our own citizens!
 
2014-01-03 11:04:04 AM

Turbo Cojones: Under Israeli law, all Jews have the right to return to Israel.


unless they're black!
 
Bf+
2014-01-03 11:04:27 AM
I'm not saying subby is racist, but... well, yeah... subby is racist.

/Drew?  Is that you?
 
2014-01-03 11:04:49 AM

give me doughnuts: Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The U.S. has been #1 for several years when it comes to immigrant population. We lead the nearest competition by 34,000,000.


Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
 
2014-01-03 11:05:17 AM

ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


...obviously...

I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT.

OMG they violated a federal law and were allowed to go on with their lives!!! NOBODY ELSE in the history of history has ever violated a FEDERAL LAW, been appropriately punished for that violation, and then got on with things! Or, GOD FORBID, violated a FEDERAL LAW and not got punished at all!

Hands up everybody on this list who honestly declares on their State tax return how much stuff they bought online without paying Sales Tax? Anybody? OMG, you are all VIOLATING THE LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT!

See how retarded this is? Yes, they broke a law. It's a purely bureaucratic rule, but nonetheless a law. And yet, somehow, for some of you this particular law is some Sacred Principle of Ultimate Morality, and anybody in breach of it should become an Unperson... unlike all the laws that many of you routinely break, such as copyright laws, traffic laws, or tax laws. Do you not see how irrational this is?

/Also, you keep using this word "rewarded"...
 
2014-01-03 11:06:33 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.


Businesses will hire illegal immigrants as long as it's cheaper than hiring citizens. There are two ways to fix that: Allow corporations to pay their workers even LESS than they do now, or heavily punish corporations that knowingly hire illegal immigrants. And I mean "Seize the company's assets, jail the CEO" levels of punishment.
 
2014-01-03 11:06:40 AM
This thread reminds me of the famous inscription on the Statue of Liberty: "Keep those dirty brown folks out of my lily white melting pot."
 
2014-01-03 11:06:54 AM

Headso: Turbo Cojones: Under Israeli law, all Jews have the right to return to Israel.

unless they're black!


Sammie Davis Jr. died so your point is moot since he was the only one of those.
 
2014-01-03 11:07:43 AM

Snarfangel: teenage mutant ninja rapist: wellreadneck: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

I'll hire the wetback attorney who fought to get and stay here over Harvard boy any day of the week.

Why? He'll actually give a f*ck about my case and not rape me over the price.

As a descendant of  the immigrants now disparaged with "hillbilly", go f*ck yourself, mick.

So you dont like the irish huh? double f*ck you. How many generations inbred are you anyways?


I didn't realize we were in the presence of European Royalty.

/Family tree: bonsai


Another cognitively dissonant social justice warrior ignorant of the similarities between hillbilly and wetback.
 
2014-01-03 11:09:07 AM

derpy: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.

Are you being denied work because your car is illegal?



If I am not actively correcting the problem though legal means, I should be. This was not a deliberate violation. therefore I am successfully able to go through normal channels to rectify it. Spending days or weeks traversing the desert and stealing SSN (or not even doing that, taking work for pay under the table IE not paying taxes) is rather deliberate hence fark them.

This isnt even about them stealing jobs..... their willingness to work for substandard pay means they are actively and willingly submitting to slavery.

Furthermore, the Mexican people who are pursuing legal channels for immigration are getting screwed in the process. I find that pretty damn disrespectful.

I'm sure they have the greatest of intentions for their families, and would serve well in many fields even help us advance our culture as well.... its farking the wrong way to do it. Push for reform from your side of the border. If your government is farked, revolt. We did. It was hard and many people died... but thats what it took.

This modern "entitled" generation pisses me off. Nobody loses (and soon nobody is going to win, everybody will get participation trophies... let that sink in during Superbowl)
 
2014-01-03 11:09:28 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.


Everyone knows that the stagnation that started in the 70's were caused by Reagans tax cuts to the rich.
 
2014-01-03 11:11:16 AM

czetie: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...

somehow, for some of you this particular law is some Sacred Principle of Ultimate Morality, and anybody in breach of it should become an Unperson... unlike all the laws that many of you routinely break, such as copyright laws, traffic laws, or tax laws. Do you not see how irrational this is?


Yes, but they are teh white which makes it OK when they do it.  Do you not see the point?

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2014-01-03 11:11:57 AM

wellreadneck: Snarfangel: teenage mutant ninja rapist: wellreadneck: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

I'll hire the wetback attorney who fought to get and stay here over Harvard boy any day of the week.

Why? He'll actually give a f*ck about my case and not rape me over the price.

As a descendant of  the immigrants now disparaged with "hillbilly", go f*ck yourself, mick.

So you dont like the irish huh? double f*ck you. How many generations inbred are you anyways?


I didn't realize we were in the presence of European Royalty.

/Family tree: bonsai

Another cognitively dissonant social justice warrior ignorant of the similarities between hillbilly and wetback.



Not really. I just like making jokes about inbred European royals.
 
2014-01-03 11:12:19 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The U.S. has been #1 for several years when it comes to immigrant population. We lead the nearest competition by 34,000,000.

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."


There are signs all over the southern border telling people to stay out, and nobody pays attention to those.
 
2014-01-03 11:13:31 AM

give me doughnuts: UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The U.S. has been #1 for several years when it comes to immigrant population. We lead the nearest competition by 34,000,000.

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

There are signs all over the southern border telling people to stay out, and nobody pays attention to those.


I'll admit there's a bit of a mixed messaging problem.

/Lady Liberty was there first
 
2014-01-03 11:14:00 AM

ToastTheRabbit: derpy: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.

Are you being denied work because your car is illegal?


If I am not actively correcting the problem though legal means, I should be. This was not a deliberate violation. therefore I am successfully able to go through normal channels to rectify it. Spending days or weeks traversing the desert and stealing SSN (or not even doing that, taking work for pay under the table IE not paying taxes) is rather deliberate hence fark them.

This isnt even about them stealing jobs..... their willingness to work for substandard pay means they are actively and willingly submitting to slavery.

Furthermore, the Mexican people who are pursuing legal channels for immigration are getting screwed in the process. I find that pretty damn disrespectful.

I'm sure they have the greatest of intentions for their families, and would serve well in many fields even help us advance our culture as well.... its farking the wrong way to do it. Push for reform from your side of the border. If your government is farked, revolt. We did. It was hard and many people died... but thats what it took.

This modern "entitled" generation pisses me off. Nobody loses (and soon nobody is going to win, everybody will get participation trophies... let that sink in during Superbowl)


Slaves were paid?
 
2014-01-03 11:16:37 AM

LordJiro: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Businesses will hire illegal immigrants as long as it's cheaper than hiring citizens. There are two ways to fix that: Allow corporations to pay their workers even LESS than they do now, or heavily punish corporations that knowingly hire illegal immigrants. And I mean "Seize the company's assets, jail the CEO" levels of punishment.


Companies like that do a pretty good job of setting up a shell game that prevents the guys on top from "knowingly" hiring illegal immigrants.  Jailing a CEO because of the actions of an overly-ambitious middle manager would unfortunately be unfair.  But I don't know what the correct solution there is.
 
2014-01-03 11:19:28 AM

dookdookdook: Three Crooked Squirrels: Garcia, a resident of Chico, Calif., came to the U.S. with his family when he was 17 months old. He returned to Mexico when he was 9 and reentered the U.S. without authorization when he was 17.

He did "sneak in" at 17 years old.

That's like charging someone who stole a car and drove it to work every day for a month with 30 separate counts of grand theft auto because every time he drove it he was breaking into a car that wasn't his.



We're talking about a span of eight years.

It's a little more like riding in a car with one of your friends. He stops at a house, says he needs to pick something up from a friend, only instead, he actually just breaks into the house and steals some shiat and splits it with you.

Then, eight years later you go break into that house again.

That said... I don't give a shiat. I don't have a hard-on about illegal immigration. We help fark up their country and exploit their poverty so that we can get cheap stuff. If I was in their place I'd come here illegally, too.

So, the last part of the analogy for me is that the house belongs to some guy who totally ripped off your friend's family and your family, and what you're taking is a pittance compared to what was taken from your family.
 
2014-01-03 11:21:31 AM

serial_crusher: LordJiro: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Businesses will hire illegal immigrants as long as it's cheaper than hiring citizens. There are two ways to fix that: Allow corporations to pay their workers even LESS than they do now, or heavily punish corporations that knowingly hire illegal immigrants. And I mean "Seize the company's assets, jail the CEO" levels of punishment.

Companies like that do a pretty good job of setting up a shell game that prevents the guys on top from "knowingly" hiring illegal immigrants.  Jailing a CEO because of the actions of an overly-ambitious middle manager would unfortunately be unfair.  But I don't know what the correct solution there is.


I'm sorry, but I've been assured by numerous conservative Farkers that the person at the top is responsible for anything and everything that happens under them.  That's why so many things that the government does are entirely Obama's fault.
 
2014-01-03 11:23:35 AM

serial_crusher: LordJiro: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Businesses will hire illegal immigrants as long as it's cheaper than hiring citizens. There are two ways to fix that: Allow corporations to pay their workers even LESS than they do now, or heavily punish corporations that knowingly hire illegal immigrants. And I mean "Seize the company's assets, jail the CEO" levels of punishment.

Companies like that do a pretty good job of setting up a shell game that prevents the guys on top from "knowingly" hiring illegal immigrants.  Jailing a CEO because of the actions of an overly-ambitious middle manager would unfortunately be unfair.  But I don't know what the correct solution there is.


You don't have to throw the CEO in jail (though I think that expecting a bit more involvement and responsibility from CEOs into the operations of their company isn't unreasonable), you just have to fine them enough to remove the cost-effectiveness of hiring people who aren't legally allowed to work. If hiring an illegal immigrant results in fines that end up totaling more than the wages you'd pay to an American, businesses will quickly sort themselves out.
 
2014-01-03 11:24:25 AM
1) Is there any right enjoyed by citizens that should be denied to non-citizens, particularly those who are in violation of the law by being here?

2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?
 
2014-01-03 11:28:24 AM

jjorsett: 1) Is there any right enjoyed by citizens that should be denied to non-citizens, particularly those who are in violation of the law by being here?

2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?


3) Should you ask any more ridiculously pants-on-head leading questions?

No. No, you shouldn't.
 
2014-01-03 11:29:21 AM

Snarfangel: wellreadneck: Snarfangel: teenage mutant ninja rapist: wellreadneck: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

I'll hire the wetback attorney who fought to get and stay here over Harvard boy any day of the week.

Why? He'll actually give a f*ck about my case and not rape me over the price.

As a descendant of  the immigrants now disparaged with "hillbilly", go f*ck yourself, mick.

So you dont like the irish huh? double f*ck you. How many generations inbred are you anyways?


I didn't realize we were in the presence of European Royalty.

/Family tree: bonsai

Another cognitively dissonant social justice warrior ignorant of the similarities between hillbilly and wetback.


Not really. I just like making jokes about inbred European royals.


I understand. I'm the same way when it comes to jokes about bootlegging American royalty.
 
2014-01-03 11:29:32 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: Debeo Summa Credo: Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Really? Nothing else could have an effect, huh? I'd like to see your research, and how you handled other externalities. Because I suspect that, as usual, you are a liar/idiot.

There are other externalities, of course. The fact that previously undeveloped nations have turned from subsistence farming backwaters to indistrialization is one of those externalities, that also affected working class wages in the US.

But if you don't think the increase in the proportion of non-US born residents hasn't had a material effect on working class wages, then it is you who is the liar/idiot.

In that case it should be pretty simple for you to cite a credible source on the subject, yes? You're really fixated on this one (small) factor, but you've provided no evidence other than your opinion that it is a significant piece of the puzzle.


http://www.fairus.org/publications/immigration-poverty-and-low-wage- ea rners-the-harmful-effects-of-unskilled-immigrants-on-american-wor

http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10 25 &context=briggstestimonies

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/96nov/immigrat/borjas.ht m
 
2014-01-03 11:31:14 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The U.S. has been #1 for several years when it comes to immigrant population. We lead the nearest competition by 34,000,000.

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

There are signs all over the southern border telling people to stay out, and nobody pays attention to those.

I'll admit there's a bit of a mixed messaging problem.

/Lady Liberty was there first



A Statue of Hostility would be a nifty tourist attraction. Perhaps a scowling old woman swinging a broom...
 
2014-01-03 11:35:49 AM

machoprogrammer: Can you imagine a world without lawyers?



www.indybay.org




"YES."

 
2014-01-03 11:36:39 AM

ToastTheRabbit: derpy: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.

Are you being denied work because your car is illegal?


If I am not actively correcting the problem though legal means, I should be. This was not a deliberate violation. therefore I am successfully able to go through normal channels to rectify it. Spending days or weeks traversing the desert and stealing SSN (or not even doing that, taking work for pay under the table IE not paying taxes) is rather deliberate hence fark them.

This isnt even about them stealing jobs..... their willingness to work for substandard pay means they are actively and willingly submitting to slavery.

Furthermore, the Mexican people who are pursuing legal channels for immigration are getting screwed in the process. I find that pretty damn disrespectful.

I'm sure they have the greatest of intentions for their families, and would serve well in many fields even help us advance our culture as well.... its farking the wrong way to do it. Push for reform from your side of the border. If your government is farked, revolt. We did. It was hard and many people died... but thats what it took.

This modern "entitled" generation pisses me off. Nobody loses (and soon nobody is going to win, everybody will get participation trophies... let that sink in during Superbowl)


Must be nice to have normal channels available to you.
 
2014-01-03 11:39:13 AM

ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.


He's being rewarded for passing the bar exam, not for being in the country illegally.
 
2014-01-03 11:40:03 AM

czetie: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...

...obviously...

I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT.

OMG they violated a federal law and were allowed to go on with their lives!!! NOBODY ELSE in the history of history has ever violated a FEDERAL LAW, been appropriately punished for that violation, and then got on with things! Or, GOD FORBID, violated a FEDERAL LAW and not got punished at all!

Hands up everybody on this list who honestly declares on their State tax return how much stuff they bought online without paying Sales Tax? Anybody? OMG, you are all VIOLATING THE LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT!

See how retarded this is? Yes, they broke a law. It's a purely bureaucratic rule, but nonetheless a law. And yet, somehow, for some of you this particular law is some Sacred Principle of Ultimate Morality, and anybody in breach of it should become an Unperson... unlike all the laws that many of you routinely break, such as copyright laws, traffic laws, or tax laws. Do you not see how irrational this is?

/Also, you keep using this word "rewarded"...


When I get caught violating a law, I expect to receive proper punishment for it.  Ok, I was speeding, yeah I'll pay the fine.
I've never gone so far as to argue my way out of a warning and into a ticket, because I'm selfish like that.  But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning.
 
2014-01-03 11:43:27 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The U.S. has been #1 for several years when it comes to immigrant population. We lead the nearest competition by 34,000,000.

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

There are signs all over the southern border telling people to stay out, and nobody pays attention to those.

I'll admit there's a bit of a mixed messaging problem.

/Lady Liberty was there first


The old girl just needs a little work:

johnwilliampauldavis.edublogs.org
 
2014-01-03 11:43:34 AM

jjorsett: 2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?


As you can see some in the thread think it is more viable to deport millions of people instead of making rich people follow the laws but other than them you'll find few people against the idea of enforcing the laws that make it illegal for companies to hire undocumented workers at slave wages.
 
2014-01-03 11:47:29 AM

serial_crusher: czetie: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...

...obviously...

I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT.

OMG they violated a federal law and were allowed to go on with their lives!!! NOBODY ELSE in the history of history has ever violated a FEDERAL LAW, been appropriately punished for that violation, and then got on with things! Or, GOD FORBID, violated a FEDERAL LAW and not got punished at all!

Hands up everybody on this list who honestly declares on their State tax return how much stuff they bought online without paying Sales Tax? Anybody? OMG, you are all VIOLATING THE LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT!

See how retarded this is? Yes, they broke a law. It's a purely bureaucratic rule, but nonetheless a law. And yet, somehow, for some of you this particular law is some Sacred Principle of Ultimate Morality, and anybody in breach of it should become an Unperson... unlike all the laws that many of you routinely break, such as copyright laws, traffic laws, or tax laws. Do you not see how irrational this is?

/Also, you keep using this word "rewarded"...

When I get caught violating a law, I expect to receive proper punishment for it.  Ok, I was speeding, yeah I'll pay the fine.
I've never gone so far as to argue my way out of a warning and into a ticket, because I'm selfish like that.  But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning.



Well, aren't you just the proudest little authoritarian ever?

-

"Right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) is a personality and ideological variable studied in political, social, and personality psychology. Right-wing authoritarians are people who have a high degree of willingness to submit to authorities they perceive as established and legitimate, who adhere to societal conventions and norms, and who are hostile and punitive in their attitudes towards people who don't adhere to them. They value uniformity and are in favour of using group authority, including coercion, to achieve it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism
 
2014-01-03 11:48:45 AM

A shining example of why citizenship should not be a birthright, but earned.  You get all the normal rights & privileges normally associated with citizenship regardless of your documentation status, right up until you turn 18, then you get to convince the rest of us that you're allowed to stay on the island.  Good luck!


Fine print: Since there is nowhere left to deport you, failure to complete citizenship requirements in a reasonable amount of time will result in your euthanasia.  Can't have you moochin'

 
2014-01-03 11:49:36 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: UrukHaiGuyz: Debeo Summa Credo: Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Really? Nothing else could have an effect, huh? I'd like to see your research, and how you handled other externalities. Because I suspect that, as usual, you are a liar/idiot.

There are other externalities, of course. The fact that previously undeveloped nations have turned from subsistence farming backwaters to indistrialization is one of those externalities, that also affected working class wages in the US.

But if you don't think the increase in the proportion of non-US born residents hasn't had a material effect on working class wages, then it is you who is the liar/idiot.

In that case it should be pretty simple for you to cite a credible source on the subject, yes? You're really fixated on this one (small) factor, but you've provided no evidence other than your opinion that it is a significant piece of the puzzle.

http://www.fairus.org/publications/immigration-poverty-and-low-wage- ea rners-the-harmful-effects-of-unskilled-immigrants-on-american-wor


An organization that receives funding from a pro-eugenics group like the Pioneer Fund is not what I'd call a credible resource on immigration. Also a designated hate group. Pass.

http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10 25 &context=briggstestimonies

This source claims only that illegal immigration harms blacks disproportionately, as competition for low-wage/low-skill jobs (especially in large metro areas) increases where the two groups statistically meet. This is a fair criticism, IMO, but once again, high levels of deportation are not driving wages up. There is more to the story.

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/96nov/immigrat/borjas.ht m

In this article the author advocates for potential increases in highly skilled immigrants. He makes this point:

The large-scale migration of less-skilled workers has done harm to the economic opportunities of less-skilled natives. Immigration may account for perhaps a third of the recent decline in the relative wages of less-educated native workers.

But offers this counterpoint:

There are economic benefits to be gained from immigration. These arise because certain skills that immigrants bring into the country complement those of the native population. However, these economic benefits are small -- perhaps on the order of $7 billion annually.

With no citation for either. Moot point.
 
2014-01-03 11:57:08 AM

GoldSpider: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.

He's being rewarded for passing the bar exam, not for being in the country illegally.


Indeed. In fact, as a result of being in the country illegally, he can't actually charge money for legal services.
 
2014-01-03 11:58:35 AM

BMFPitt: ToastTheRabbit: Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

I hear there's this new lawyer in CA.  You can hire him.


It might have to be pro bono if he does. The court didn't rule if he can actually be a contractor and accept payment for his services.
 
2014-01-03 12:07:48 PM

Rootus: A shining example of why citizenship should not be a birthright, but earned.  You get all the normal rights & privileges normally associated with citizenship regardless of your documentation status, right up until you turn 18, then you get to convince the rest of us that you're allowed to stay on the island.  Good luck!
Fine print: Since there is nowhere left to deport you, failure to complete citizenship requirements in a reasonable amount of time will result in your euthanasia.  Can't have you moochin'


Good luck with finding the funds for euthanasia. Schools have enough problems with finding funds to not kill the kids.
 
2014-01-03 12:26:24 PM
UrukHaiGuyz:

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe for free."

It's always free shiat with you people.


yeah, yeah

www.avitable.com
 
2014-01-03 12:31:11 PM

technicolor-misfit: serial_crusher: czetie: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...

...obviously...

I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT.

OMG they violated a federal law and were allowed to go on with their lives!!! NOBODY ELSE in the history of history has ever violated a FEDERAL LAW, been appropriately punished for that violation, and then got on with things! Or, GOD FORBID, violated a FEDERAL LAW and not got punished at all!

Hands up everybody on this list who honestly declares on their State tax return how much stuff they bought online without paying Sales Tax? Anybody? OMG, you are all VIOLATING THE LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT!

See how retarded this is? Yes, they broke a law. It's a purely bureaucratic rule, but nonetheless a law. And yet, somehow, for some of you this particular law is some Sacred Principle of Ultimate Morality, and anybody in breach of it should become an Unperson... unlike all the laws that many of you routinely break, such as copyright laws, traffic laws, or tax laws. Do you not see how irrational this is?

/Also, you keep using this word "rewarded"...

When I get caught violating a law, I expect to receive proper punishment for it.  Ok, I was speeding, yeah I'll pay the fine.
I've never gone so far as to argue my way out of a warning and into a ticket, because I'm selfish like that.  But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning.


Well, aren't you just the proudest little authoritarian ever?

-

"Right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) is a personality and ideological variable studied in political, social, and personality psychology. Right-wing authoritarians are people who have a high degree of willingness to submit to authorities they perceive as established and legitimate, who adhere to societal conventions and norms, and who are hostile and punitive in their attitudes towards people who don't adhere to them. They value uniformity and are in favour of using grou ...


I'm actually part of the Slacker Party. Bob Dobbs For President.

/actually registered Stark Raving Looney party
 
2014-01-03 12:31:46 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: UrukHaiGuyz:

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe for free."

It's always free shiat with you people.


yeah, yeah

[www.avitable.com image 300x375]


Breathe free, not for free, doofus. Why do you people always mangle quotes? Are you incapable of acting honestly?
 
2014-01-03 12:34:57 PM
Hey subby can we start calling people who don't pay their taxes "Illegals" too? What they are doing is "illegal" too. Or this label only applies to foreigners?
 
2014-01-03 12:43:38 PM
Anthony Acevedo. WWII medic whose family was deported back to Mexico in 1937. He came back to the US when the war started because he wanted to help. He was captured during the Battle of the Bulge and sent to the Berga concentration camp along with 350 POWs. Half of them died there. He risked his life to keep a journal of the atrocities that he saw. That journal is now in the collections at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. I'll take 1 Anthony Acevedo over an entire state full of self-entitled, racist, redneck idiots any day.
 
2014-01-03 12:45:29 PM

ToastTheRabbit: I'm actually part of the Slacker Party. Bob Dobbs For President.

/actually registered Stark Raving Looney party



Sorry, I guess I should have removed all the other stuff, but that was in reply to  serial_crusher's comment:


"When I get caught violating a law, I expect to receive proper punishment for it.  Ok, I was speeding, yeah I'll pay the fine.
I've never gone so far as to argue my way out of a warning and into a ticket, because I'm selfish like that.  But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning."
 
2014-01-03 12:47:21 PM

Corvus: Hey subby can we start calling people who don't pay their taxes "Illegals" too? What they are doing is "illegal" too. Or this label only applies to foreigners?


can we just call them all criminals?
 
2014-01-03 12:49:20 PM

technicolor-misfit: ToastTheRabbit: I'm actually part of the Slacker Party. Bob Dobbs For President.

/actually registered Stark Raving Looney party


Sorry, I guess I should have removed all the other stuff, but that was in reply to  serial_crusher's comment:


"When I get caught violating a law, I expect to receive proper punishment for it.  Ok, I was speeding, yeah I'll pay the fine.
I've never gone so far as to argue my way out of a warning and into a ticket, because I'm selfish like that.  But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning."


the coffee is weak with me, I should have caught that too. Still was a fun discussion. I'm probably entirely in the wrong. I admit that.
 
2014-01-03 12:53:44 PM

serial_crusher: ToastTheRabbit: actually deportations are at an all time low for citizens who have made it to america

I should hope we're not deporting our own citizens!


Actually, occasionally it happens. Too lazy to try and look it up but they deported some mentally retarded kid to Tijuana from San Diego. He was never found. It was years ago so my memory may not have all details or correct details.
 
2014-01-03 12:57:54 PM

LadySusan: serial_crusher: ToastTheRabbit: actually deportations are at an all time low for citizens who have made it to america

I should hope we're not deporting our own citizens!

Actually, occasionally it happens. Too lazy to try and look it up but they deported some mentally retarded kid to Tijuana from San Diego. He was never found. It was years ago so my memory may not have all details or correct details.


Wasn't as hard as I thought. He only spent a few months homeless in Tijuana. http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2012/01/immigration-us-citizen-d e ported.html
 
2014-01-03 01:00:48 PM
 
2014-01-03 01:01:01 PM

wellreadneck: As a descendant of the immigrants now disparaged with "hillbilly", go f*ck yourself, mick.


This is why I love America!
 
2014-01-03 01:02:35 PM

serial_crusher: But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning.



I bet you're a blast at parties.

/IIRC, I have an equal number of tickets and warnings.
 
2014-01-03 01:03:24 PM

NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.


Did they come over here legally or illegally?
 
2014-01-03 01:22:25 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Corvus: Hey subby can we start calling people who don't pay their taxes "Illegals" too? What they are doing is "illegal" too. Or this label only applies to foreigners?

can we just call them all criminals?


I wouldn't call a kid brought into the Untied States by his parent's "criminal"
 
2014-01-03 01:49:28 PM
Ah yes, America.  Where crossing the border illegally makes you a horrible criminal who should be immediately deported, but raping a co-ed means you should get a second chance and killing 4 people because you were driving drunk gets you community service.
 
2014-01-03 01:55:10 PM

Corvus: Zeb Hesselgresser: Corvus: Hey subby can we start calling people who don't pay their taxes "Illegals" too? What they are doing is "illegal" too. Or this label only applies to foreigners?

can we just call them all criminals?

I wouldn't call a kid brought into the Untied States by his parent's "criminal"


Good point, neither would I.
 
2014-01-03 01:58:34 PM
**grabs popcorn.  

I also went through this system.  Parents immigrated here legally and brought me to this country when I was 2 years old.... took me 30 years to get my citizenship. In the meantime also used my time wisely and enlisted in USMC, much of which I was deployed overseas. After my enlistment ended went to school got my BS in engineering.

Its more of the same argument... I got mine already why should you get yours.

gifstumblr.com
 
2014-01-03 02:34:24 PM

The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

Did they come over here legally or illegally?


Does it really matter? they were treated like sh*t no matter how they got here.
 
2014-01-03 02:39:11 PM

NewportBarGuy: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

Did they come over here legally or illegally?

Does it really matter? they were treated like sh*t no matter how they got here.



It does matter, because if they came over legally, it's a shame that you would support people who are essentially "cutting in line".

/Grandparents and Dad came over legally.
//And if you want to get all emo about how the Irish were treated, let me remind you that those of us with Slavic last names were not exactly welcomed into country clubs.
 
2014-01-03 02:50:42 PM

Muta: Can a 17 month old child be held responsible for breaking a law?


In fairness, some of those babies are just dicks sometimes.

/don't know what their problem is
 
2014-01-03 02:51:51 PM

The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

Did they come over here legally or illegally?

Does it really matter? they were treated like sh*t no matter how they got here.


It does matter, because if they came over legally, it's a shame that you would support people who are essentially "cutting in line".

/Grandparents and Dad came over legally.
//And if you want to get all emo about how the Irish were treated, let me remind you that those of us with Slavic last names were not exactly welcomed into country clubs.


Remember, right and wrong is determined by law, and not by the harm done by actions.  That's why Hitler killing the Jews was okay, because the Jews were illegal.  If you can't fault them on the nature of their actions, rather than the letter of the law, then the problem lies with you and the law, not with the "illegals".
 
2014-01-03 02:53:25 PM

Mr_Fabulous: Muta: Can a 17 month old child be held responsible for breaking a law?

In fairness, some of those babies are just dicks sometimes.

/don't know what their problem is


Malicious gurgling and resisting a rest. Lock him up!
 
2014-01-03 02:57:36 PM

ikanreed: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

Did they come over here legally or illegally?

Does it really matter? they were treated like sh*t no matter how they got here.


It does matter, because if they came over legally, it's a shame that you would support people who are essentially "cutting in line".

/Grandparents and Dad came over legally.
//And if you want to get all emo about how the Irish were treated, let me remind you that those of us with Slavic last names were not exactly welcomed into country clubs.

Remember, right and wrong is determined by law, and not by the harm done by actions.  That's why Hitler killing the Jews was okay, because the Jews were illegal.  If you can't fault them on the nature of their actions, rather than the letter of the law, then the problem lies with you and the law, not with the "illegals".


It figures that the dumbest post in the thread would also be a Godwin.
 
2014-01-03 03:19:34 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: jjorsett: 1) Is there any right enjoyed by citizens that should be denied to non-citizens, particularly those who are in violation of the law by being here?

2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?

3) Should you ask any more ridiculously pants-on-head leading questions?

No. No, you shouldn't.


Given that those questions are neutral in tone and would be simple to answer, that's a very defensive response. I'm guessing that if you were to be honest, you'd say 1) No and 2) No.
 
2014-01-03 03:20:37 PM

The_Sponge: It does matter, because if they came over legally, it's a shame that you would support people who are essentially "cutting in line".


It doesn't really bother me. Cutting in line is an American tradition, might as well learn it early on. I love that people want to come and work here. I completely understand the plight of people who go the legal route. It takes years and is utterly ridiculous.
 
2014-01-03 03:22:46 PM

I created this alt just for this thread: ikanreed: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

Did they come over here legally or illegally?

Does it really matter? they were treated like sh*t no matter how they got here.


It does matter, because if they came over legally, it's a shame that you would support people who are essentially "cutting in line".

/Grandparents and Dad came over legally.
//And if you want to get all emo about how the Irish were treated, let me remind you that those of us with Slavic last names were not exactly welcomed into country clubs.

Remember, right and wrong is determined by law, and not by the harm done by actions.  That's why Hitler killing the Jews was okay, because the Jews were illegal.  If you can't fault them on the nature of their actions, rather than the letter of the law, then the problem lies with you and the law, not with the "illegals".

It figures that the dumbest post in the thread would also be a Godwin.


Yep, calling "godwin" is always stupid.  Congrats.
 
2014-01-03 03:24:15 PM

Headso: jjorsett: 2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?

As you can see some in the thread think it is more viable to deport millions of people instead of making rich people follow the laws but other than them you'll find few people against the idea of enforcing the laws that make it illegal for companies to hire undocumented workers at slave wages.


Which I take it means if they got paid and treated the same as legal residents many people would be okay with not making any effort to enforce the laws, or even better change the laws to allow anyone in to work who wants to.
 
2014-01-03 03:27:28 PM

jjorsett: UrukHaiGuyz: jjorsett: 1) Is there any right enjoyed by citizens that should be denied to non-citizens, particularly those who are in violation of the law by being here?

2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?

3) Should you ask any more ridiculously pants-on-head leading questions?

No. No, you shouldn't.

Given that those questions are neutral in tone and would be simple to answer, that's a very defensive response. I'm guessing that if you were to be honest, you'd say 1) No and 2) No.


You'd be wrong, but guess away, slugger.
 
2014-01-03 03:37:11 PM

jjorsett: Headso: jjorsett: 2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?

As you can see some in the thread think it is more viable to deport millions of people instead of making rich people follow the laws but other than them you'll find few people against the idea of enforcing the laws that make it illegal for companies to hire undocumented workers at slave wages.

Which I take it means if they got paid and treated the same as legal residents many people would be okay with not making any effort to enforce the laws, or even better change the laws to allow anyone in to work who wants to.


I dare you to find a single post in this or any other thread where someone is seriously advocating zero immigration law/enforcement.

I'll wait.
 
2014-01-03 03:40:11 PM

ikanreed: I created this alt just for this thread: ikanreed: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

Did they come over here legally or illegally?

Does it really matter? they were treated like sh*t no matter how they got here.


It does matter, because if they came over legally, it's a shame that you would support people who are essentially "cutting in line".

/Grandparents and Dad came over legally.
//And if you want to get all emo about how the Irish were treated, let me remind you that those of us with Slavic last names were not exactly welcomed into country clubs.

Remember, right and wrong is determined by law, and not by the harm done by actions.  That's why Hitler killing the Jews was okay, because the Jews were illegal.  If you can't fault them on the nature of their actions, rather than the letter of the law, then the problem lies with you and the law, not with the "illegals".

It figures that the dumbest post in the thread would also be a Godwin.

Yep, calling "godwin" is always stupid.  Congrats.


Did you think up that response on your own or did you get a 5 year-old to help you?
 
2014-01-03 04:17:07 PM
Well, as long as he obeys the laws he agrees with, I guess that's ok.

But how is it ethically permissible to represent clients when you're subject to deportation (at least in theory) at any time?
 
2014-01-03 04:18:23 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: jjorsett: Headso: jjorsett: 2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?

As you can see some in the thread think it is more viable to deport millions of people instead of making rich people follow the laws but other than them you'll find few people against the idea of enforcing the laws that make it illegal for companies to hire undocumented workers at slave wages.

Which I take it means if they got paid and treated the same as legal residents many people would be okay with not making any effort to enforce the laws, or even better change the laws to allow anyone in to work who wants to.

I dare you to find a single post in this or any other thread where someone is seriously advocating zero immigration law/enforcement.

I'll wait.


According to a recent poll,  60 percent of Americans think law enforcement should be allowed to detain illegal immigrants for minor crimes until federal immigration authorities can take custody of them.
 
2014-01-03 04:19:36 PM

Kibbler: THE LAW IS THE LAW.

Except for taxes, Obamacare and red light taxes. In those cases it is our patriotic duty to resist tyranny.


Except for the debt ceiling, of course.
 
2014-01-03 04:29:08 PM
They most certainly can deter crime.  If you don't consider an accidental shooting a crime.
 
2014-01-03 04:29:45 PM
Weird.  Mispost on wrong topic.  I didn't even have this thread up at the time...  apologies!
 
2014-01-03 04:52:17 PM

I created this alt just for this thread: ikanreed: I created this alt just for this thread: ikanreed: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: The_Sponge: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

Did they come over here legally or illegally?

Does it really matter? they were treated like sh*t no matter how they got here.


It does matter, because if they came over legally, it's a shame that you would support people who are essentially "cutting in line".

/Grandparents and Dad came over legally.
//And if you want to get all emo about how the Irish were treated, let me remind you that those of us with Slavic last names were not exactly welcomed into country clubs.

Remember, right and wrong is determined by law, and not by the harm done by actions.  That's why Hitler killing the Jews was okay, because the Jews were illegal.  If you can't fault them on the nature of their actions, rather than the letter of the law, then the problem lies with you and the law, not with the "illegals".

It figures that the dumbest post in the thread would also be a Godwin.

Yep, calling "godwin" is always stupid.  Congrats.

Did you think up that response on your own or did you get a 5 year-old to help you?


No, really, when complaining about posts, all you have to do is not be even dumber, more redundant, and uninteresting.  Turns out to be tricky for the kind of people who disagree with my always correct opinions.
 
2014-01-03 05:13:54 PM

WTF Indeed: Going for the Stromfront/Liberal flamewar clicks, admins?


Hilarious, considering this guy's filibuster history:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-03 10:18:33 PM

jjorsett: Headso: jjorsett: 2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?

As you can see some in the thread think it is more viable to deport millions of people instead of making rich people follow the laws but other than them you'll find few people against the idea of enforcing the laws that make it illegal for companies to hire undocumented workers at slave wages.

Which I take it means if they got paid and treated the same as legal residents many people would be okay with not making any effort to enforce the laws, or even better change the laws to allow anyone in to work who wants to.


The fight you have with those who are fine with companies operating illegally and getting preferential treatment over actual human people is not with the left wing that's for sure.
 
2014-01-04 02:04:19 AM
You let convicts earn law degrees and harass the system with nuisance lawsuits, so it seems only fair that so-called "illegal" people should be allowed the same right. Otherwise you have created a class of people who have fewer rights than prisoners or Roman slaves had.

Not that reducing a certain number of classes of people to the status of slaves with no rights is not the long-term object of Jim Crow, the Patriot Act One and Two, and anti-14th Amendment propaganda, but hey, I'm just saying.
 
2014-01-04 04:37:26 AM
Seems like a pretty simple case:

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
SEC. 8. A person may not be disqualified from entering or pursuing a business, profession, vocation, or employment because of sex, race, creed, color, or national or ethnic origin.

Kinda one of the problems I have with this whole "illegal immigrant" biatch-fest: the 14th Amendment guarantees equal protection under the law to all  persons, not just citizens. The Privileges and Immunities clause notwithstanding, denying "illegal" immigrants the right to work as a class is a violation of that amendment.
 
2014-01-04 06:22:59 AM
He has the license to practice law, but whether or not he can actually legally do so is still up in the air

In its ruling, the court said there was no disputing that Garcia could practice law free of charge and outside the U.S. But, the justices noted, there was disagreement about whether someone like Garcia legally could work as an independent contractor and charge fees.

The U.S. Justice Department has said that would not be allowed. The State Bar has said it was permissible. The court did not rule on the question Thursday.
 
2014-01-04 06:48:00 AM

rzrwiresunrise: Seems like a pretty simple case:

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
SEC. 8. A person may not be disqualified from entering or pursuing a business, profession, vocation, or employment because of sex, race, creed, color, or national or ethnic origin.

Kinda one of the problems I have with this whole "illegal immigrant" biatch-fest: the 14th Amendment guarantees equal protection under the law to all  persons, not just citizens. The Privileges and Immunities clause notwithstanding, denying "illegal" immigrants the right to work as a class is a violation of that amendment.


They're not being denied based on their race or country of origin, they're being denied based on their lack of legal standing to be in this country. "Criminal" isn't a protected class, and the law is allowed to disqualify them from any number of things.

The 14th amendment says "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

It only applies to states, not the federal government. So you're right that states can't do a lot of things to them (see
Plyer v Doe) but the Federal Government is allowed free reign do create laws that discriminate against them by denying them jobs. If it wasn't, don't you think the many laws that do just that would have been declared unconstitutional by now?
 
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