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(LA Times)   CA mandates that illegal immigrants, shining examples of abiding by the law, be issued a license to practice it. 1st beneficiary of the new law snuck in at 17 and faked papers. Bonus: not one instance of the word "illegal" in the article or headline   (latimes.com) divider line 228
    More: Stupid, California Courts, illegal immigrants, individual mandate, Sergio Garcia, University of San Francisco, law license, civil litigation, Wagstaffe  
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1064 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Jan 2014 at 7:20 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Bf+
2014-01-03 11:04:27 AM  
I'm not saying subby is racist, but... well, yeah... subby is racist.

/Drew?  Is that you?
 
2014-01-03 11:04:49 AM  

give me doughnuts: Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The U.S. has been #1 for several years when it comes to immigrant population. We lead the nearest competition by 34,000,000.


Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
 
2014-01-03 11:05:17 AM  

ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


...obviously...

I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT.

OMG they violated a federal law and were allowed to go on with their lives!!! NOBODY ELSE in the history of history has ever violated a FEDERAL LAW, been appropriately punished for that violation, and then got on with things! Or, GOD FORBID, violated a FEDERAL LAW and not got punished at all!

Hands up everybody on this list who honestly declares on their State tax return how much stuff they bought online without paying Sales Tax? Anybody? OMG, you are all VIOLATING THE LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT!

See how retarded this is? Yes, they broke a law. It's a purely bureaucratic rule, but nonetheless a law. And yet, somehow, for some of you this particular law is some Sacred Principle of Ultimate Morality, and anybody in breach of it should become an Unperson... unlike all the laws that many of you routinely break, such as copyright laws, traffic laws, or tax laws. Do you not see how irrational this is?

/Also, you keep using this word "rewarded"...
 
2014-01-03 11:06:33 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.


Businesses will hire illegal immigrants as long as it's cheaper than hiring citizens. There are two ways to fix that: Allow corporations to pay their workers even LESS than they do now, or heavily punish corporations that knowingly hire illegal immigrants. And I mean "Seize the company's assets, jail the CEO" levels of punishment.
 
2014-01-03 11:06:40 AM  
This thread reminds me of the famous inscription on the Statue of Liberty: "Keep those dirty brown folks out of my lily white melting pot."
 
2014-01-03 11:06:54 AM  

Headso: Turbo Cojones: Under Israeli law, all Jews have the right to return to Israel.

unless they're black!


Sammie Davis Jr. died so your point is moot since he was the only one of those.
 
2014-01-03 11:07:43 AM  

Snarfangel: teenage mutant ninja rapist: wellreadneck: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

I'll hire the wetback attorney who fought to get and stay here over Harvard boy any day of the week.

Why? He'll actually give a f*ck about my case and not rape me over the price.

As a descendant of  the immigrants now disparaged with "hillbilly", go f*ck yourself, mick.

So you dont like the irish huh? double f*ck you. How many generations inbred are you anyways?


I didn't realize we were in the presence of European Royalty.

/Family tree: bonsai


Another cognitively dissonant social justice warrior ignorant of the similarities between hillbilly and wetback.
 
2014-01-03 11:09:07 AM  

derpy: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.

Are you being denied work because your car is illegal?



If I am not actively correcting the problem though legal means, I should be. This was not a deliberate violation. therefore I am successfully able to go through normal channels to rectify it. Spending days or weeks traversing the desert and stealing SSN (or not even doing that, taking work for pay under the table IE not paying taxes) is rather deliberate hence fark them.

This isnt even about them stealing jobs..... their willingness to work for substandard pay means they are actively and willingly submitting to slavery.

Furthermore, the Mexican people who are pursuing legal channels for immigration are getting screwed in the process. I find that pretty damn disrespectful.

I'm sure they have the greatest of intentions for their families, and would serve well in many fields even help us advance our culture as well.... its farking the wrong way to do it. Push for reform from your side of the border. If your government is farked, revolt. We did. It was hard and many people died... but thats what it took.

This modern "entitled" generation pisses me off. Nobody loses (and soon nobody is going to win, everybody will get participation trophies... let that sink in during Superbowl)
 
2014-01-03 11:09:28 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.


Everyone knows that the stagnation that started in the 70's were caused by Reagans tax cuts to the rich.
 
2014-01-03 11:11:16 AM  

czetie: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...

somehow, for some of you this particular law is some Sacred Principle of Ultimate Morality, and anybody in breach of it should become an Unperson... unlike all the laws that many of you routinely break, such as copyright laws, traffic laws, or tax laws. Do you not see how irrational this is?


Yes, but they are teh white which makes it OK when they do it.  Do you not see the point?

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2014-01-03 11:11:57 AM  

wellreadneck: Snarfangel: teenage mutant ninja rapist: wellreadneck: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

I'll hire the wetback attorney who fought to get and stay here over Harvard boy any day of the week.

Why? He'll actually give a f*ck about my case and not rape me over the price.

As a descendant of  the immigrants now disparaged with "hillbilly", go f*ck yourself, mick.

So you dont like the irish huh? double f*ck you. How many generations inbred are you anyways?


I didn't realize we were in the presence of European Royalty.

/Family tree: bonsai

Another cognitively dissonant social justice warrior ignorant of the similarities between hillbilly and wetback.



Not really. I just like making jokes about inbred European royals.
 
2014-01-03 11:12:19 AM  

UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The U.S. has been #1 for several years when it comes to immigrant population. We lead the nearest competition by 34,000,000.

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."


There are signs all over the southern border telling people to stay out, and nobody pays attention to those.
 
2014-01-03 11:13:31 AM  

give me doughnuts: UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The U.S. has been #1 for several years when it comes to immigrant population. We lead the nearest competition by 34,000,000.

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

There are signs all over the southern border telling people to stay out, and nobody pays attention to those.


I'll admit there's a bit of a mixed messaging problem.

/Lady Liberty was there first
 
2014-01-03 11:14:00 AM  

ToastTheRabbit: derpy: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.

Are you being denied work because your car is illegal?


If I am not actively correcting the problem though legal means, I should be. This was not a deliberate violation. therefore I am successfully able to go through normal channels to rectify it. Spending days or weeks traversing the desert and stealing SSN (or not even doing that, taking work for pay under the table IE not paying taxes) is rather deliberate hence fark them.

This isnt even about them stealing jobs..... their willingness to work for substandard pay means they are actively and willingly submitting to slavery.

Furthermore, the Mexican people who are pursuing legal channels for immigration are getting screwed in the process. I find that pretty damn disrespectful.

I'm sure they have the greatest of intentions for their families, and would serve well in many fields even help us advance our culture as well.... its farking the wrong way to do it. Push for reform from your side of the border. If your government is farked, revolt. We did. It was hard and many people died... but thats what it took.

This modern "entitled" generation pisses me off. Nobody loses (and soon nobody is going to win, everybody will get participation trophies... let that sink in during Superbowl)


Slaves were paid?
 
2014-01-03 11:16:37 AM  

LordJiro: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Businesses will hire illegal immigrants as long as it's cheaper than hiring citizens. There are two ways to fix that: Allow corporations to pay their workers even LESS than they do now, or heavily punish corporations that knowingly hire illegal immigrants. And I mean "Seize the company's assets, jail the CEO" levels of punishment.


Companies like that do a pretty good job of setting up a shell game that prevents the guys on top from "knowingly" hiring illegal immigrants.  Jailing a CEO because of the actions of an overly-ambitious middle manager would unfortunately be unfair.  But I don't know what the correct solution there is.
 
2014-01-03 11:19:28 AM  

dookdookdook: Three Crooked Squirrels: Garcia, a resident of Chico, Calif., came to the U.S. with his family when he was 17 months old. He returned to Mexico when he was 9 and reentered the U.S. without authorization when he was 17.

He did "sneak in" at 17 years old.

That's like charging someone who stole a car and drove it to work every day for a month with 30 separate counts of grand theft auto because every time he drove it he was breaking into a car that wasn't his.



We're talking about a span of eight years.

It's a little more like riding in a car with one of your friends. He stops at a house, says he needs to pick something up from a friend, only instead, he actually just breaks into the house and steals some shiat and splits it with you.

Then, eight years later you go break into that house again.

That said... I don't give a shiat. I don't have a hard-on about illegal immigration. We help fark up their country and exploit their poverty so that we can get cheap stuff. If I was in their place I'd come here illegally, too.

So, the last part of the analogy for me is that the house belongs to some guy who totally ripped off your friend's family and your family, and what you're taking is a pittance compared to what was taken from your family.
 
2014-01-03 11:21:31 AM  

serial_crusher: LordJiro: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Businesses will hire illegal immigrants as long as it's cheaper than hiring citizens. There are two ways to fix that: Allow corporations to pay their workers even LESS than they do now, or heavily punish corporations that knowingly hire illegal immigrants. And I mean "Seize the company's assets, jail the CEO" levels of punishment.

Companies like that do a pretty good job of setting up a shell game that prevents the guys on top from "knowingly" hiring illegal immigrants.  Jailing a CEO because of the actions of an overly-ambitious middle manager would unfortunately be unfair.  But I don't know what the correct solution there is.


I'm sorry, but I've been assured by numerous conservative Farkers that the person at the top is responsible for anything and everything that happens under them.  That's why so many things that the government does are entirely Obama's fault.
 
2014-01-03 11:23:35 AM  

serial_crusher: LordJiro: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Businesses will hire illegal immigrants as long as it's cheaper than hiring citizens. There are two ways to fix that: Allow corporations to pay their workers even LESS than they do now, or heavily punish corporations that knowingly hire illegal immigrants. And I mean "Seize the company's assets, jail the CEO" levels of punishment.

Companies like that do a pretty good job of setting up a shell game that prevents the guys on top from "knowingly" hiring illegal immigrants.  Jailing a CEO because of the actions of an overly-ambitious middle manager would unfortunately be unfair.  But I don't know what the correct solution there is.


You don't have to throw the CEO in jail (though I think that expecting a bit more involvement and responsibility from CEOs into the operations of their company isn't unreasonable), you just have to fine them enough to remove the cost-effectiveness of hiring people who aren't legally allowed to work. If hiring an illegal immigrant results in fines that end up totaling more than the wages you'd pay to an American, businesses will quickly sort themselves out.
 
2014-01-03 11:24:25 AM  
1) Is there any right enjoyed by citizens that should be denied to non-citizens, particularly those who are in violation of the law by being here?

2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?
 
2014-01-03 11:28:24 AM  

jjorsett: 1) Is there any right enjoyed by citizens that should be denied to non-citizens, particularly those who are in violation of the law by being here?

2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?


3) Should you ask any more ridiculously pants-on-head leading questions?

No. No, you shouldn't.
 
2014-01-03 11:29:21 AM  

Snarfangel: wellreadneck: Snarfangel: teenage mutant ninja rapist: wellreadneck: NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.

I'll hire the wetback attorney who fought to get and stay here over Harvard boy any day of the week.

Why? He'll actually give a f*ck about my case and not rape me over the price.

As a descendant of  the immigrants now disparaged with "hillbilly", go f*ck yourself, mick.

So you dont like the irish huh? double f*ck you. How many generations inbred are you anyways?


I didn't realize we were in the presence of European Royalty.

/Family tree: bonsai

Another cognitively dissonant social justice warrior ignorant of the similarities between hillbilly and wetback.


Not really. I just like making jokes about inbred European royals.


I understand. I'm the same way when it comes to jokes about bootlegging American royalty.
 
2014-01-03 11:29:32 AM  

UrukHaiGuyz: Debeo Summa Credo: Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Really? Nothing else could have an effect, huh? I'd like to see your research, and how you handled other externalities. Because I suspect that, as usual, you are a liar/idiot.

There are other externalities, of course. The fact that previously undeveloped nations have turned from subsistence farming backwaters to indistrialization is one of those externalities, that also affected working class wages in the US.

But if you don't think the increase in the proportion of non-US born residents hasn't had a material effect on working class wages, then it is you who is the liar/idiot.

In that case it should be pretty simple for you to cite a credible source on the subject, yes? You're really fixated on this one (small) factor, but you've provided no evidence other than your opinion that it is a significant piece of the puzzle.


http://www.fairus.org/publications/immigration-poverty-and-low-wage- ea rners-the-harmful-effects-of-unskilled-immigrants-on-american-wor

http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10 25 &context=briggstestimonies

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/96nov/immigrat/borjas.ht m
 
2014-01-03 11:31:14 AM  

UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The U.S. has been #1 for several years when it comes to immigrant population. We lead the nearest competition by 34,000,000.

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

There are signs all over the southern border telling people to stay out, and nobody pays attention to those.

I'll admit there's a bit of a mixed messaging problem.

/Lady Liberty was there first



A Statue of Hostility would be a nifty tourist attraction. Perhaps a scowling old woman swinging a broom...
 
2014-01-03 11:35:49 AM  

machoprogrammer: Can you imagine a world without lawyers?



www.indybay.org




"YES."

 
2014-01-03 11:36:39 AM  

ToastTheRabbit: derpy: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.

Are you being denied work because your car is illegal?


If I am not actively correcting the problem though legal means, I should be. This was not a deliberate violation. therefore I am successfully able to go through normal channels to rectify it. Spending days or weeks traversing the desert and stealing SSN (or not even doing that, taking work for pay under the table IE not paying taxes) is rather deliberate hence fark them.

This isnt even about them stealing jobs..... their willingness to work for substandard pay means they are actively and willingly submitting to slavery.

Furthermore, the Mexican people who are pursuing legal channels for immigration are getting screwed in the process. I find that pretty damn disrespectful.

I'm sure they have the greatest of intentions for their families, and would serve well in many fields even help us advance our culture as well.... its farking the wrong way to do it. Push for reform from your side of the border. If your government is farked, revolt. We did. It was hard and many people died... but thats what it took.

This modern "entitled" generation pisses me off. Nobody loses (and soon nobody is going to win, everybody will get participation trophies... let that sink in during Superbowl)


Must be nice to have normal channels available to you.
 
2014-01-03 11:39:13 AM  

ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.


He's being rewarded for passing the bar exam, not for being in the country illegally.
 
2014-01-03 11:40:03 AM  

czetie: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...

...obviously...

I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT.

OMG they violated a federal law and were allowed to go on with their lives!!! NOBODY ELSE in the history of history has ever violated a FEDERAL LAW, been appropriately punished for that violation, and then got on with things! Or, GOD FORBID, violated a FEDERAL LAW and not got punished at all!

Hands up everybody on this list who honestly declares on their State tax return how much stuff they bought online without paying Sales Tax? Anybody? OMG, you are all VIOLATING THE LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT!

See how retarded this is? Yes, they broke a law. It's a purely bureaucratic rule, but nonetheless a law. And yet, somehow, for some of you this particular law is some Sacred Principle of Ultimate Morality, and anybody in breach of it should become an Unperson... unlike all the laws that many of you routinely break, such as copyright laws, traffic laws, or tax laws. Do you not see how irrational this is?

/Also, you keep using this word "rewarded"...


When I get caught violating a law, I expect to receive proper punishment for it.  Ok, I was speeding, yeah I'll pay the fine.
I've never gone so far as to argue my way out of a warning and into a ticket, because I'm selfish like that.  But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning.
 
2014-01-03 11:43:27 AM  

UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: UrukHaiGuyz: give me doughnuts: Wolf_Blitzer: Pokey.Clyde: GoldSpider: Precisely. People don't understand that they would have a more compelling argument against illegal aliens if the naturalization process was made more reasonable.

More reasonable? You do realize that the U.S. is the easiest place in the world to legally immigrate to, don't you?

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

The U.S. has been #1 for several years when it comes to immigrant population. We lead the nearest competition by 34,000,000.

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

There are signs all over the southern border telling people to stay out, and nobody pays attention to those.

I'll admit there's a bit of a mixed messaging problem.

/Lady Liberty was there first


The old girl just needs a little work:

johnwilliampauldavis.edublogs.org
 
2014-01-03 11:43:34 AM  

jjorsett: 2) Should the US have any restrictions whatsoever on immigration, and if so, should they be enforced, and if so, how?


As you can see some in the thread think it is more viable to deport millions of people instead of making rich people follow the laws but other than them you'll find few people against the idea of enforcing the laws that make it illegal for companies to hire undocumented workers at slave wages.
 
2014-01-03 11:47:29 AM  

serial_crusher: czetie: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...

...obviously...

I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT.

OMG they violated a federal law and were allowed to go on with their lives!!! NOBODY ELSE in the history of history has ever violated a FEDERAL LAW, been appropriately punished for that violation, and then got on with things! Or, GOD FORBID, violated a FEDERAL LAW and not got punished at all!

Hands up everybody on this list who honestly declares on their State tax return how much stuff they bought online without paying Sales Tax? Anybody? OMG, you are all VIOLATING THE LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT!

See how retarded this is? Yes, they broke a law. It's a purely bureaucratic rule, but nonetheless a law. And yet, somehow, for some of you this particular law is some Sacred Principle of Ultimate Morality, and anybody in breach of it should become an Unperson... unlike all the laws that many of you routinely break, such as copyright laws, traffic laws, or tax laws. Do you not see how irrational this is?

/Also, you keep using this word "rewarded"...

When I get caught violating a law, I expect to receive proper punishment for it.  Ok, I was speeding, yeah I'll pay the fine.
I've never gone so far as to argue my way out of a warning and into a ticket, because I'm selfish like that.  But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning.



Well, aren't you just the proudest little authoritarian ever?

-

"Right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) is a personality and ideological variable studied in political, social, and personality psychology. Right-wing authoritarians are people who have a high degree of willingness to submit to authorities they perceive as established and legitimate, who adhere to societal conventions and norms, and who are hostile and punitive in their attitudes towards people who don't adhere to them. They value uniformity and are in favour of using group authority, including coercion, to achieve it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism
 
2014-01-03 11:48:45 AM  

A shining example of why citizenship should not be a birthright, but earned.  You get all the normal rights & privileges normally associated with citizenship regardless of your documentation status, right up until you turn 18, then you get to convince the rest of us that you're allowed to stay on the island.  Good luck!


Fine print: Since there is nowhere left to deport you, failure to complete citizenship requirements in a reasonable amount of time will result in your euthanasia.  Can't have you moochin'

 
2014-01-03 11:49:36 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: UrukHaiGuyz: Debeo Summa Credo: Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Debeo Summa Credo: serial_crusher: Debeo Summa Credo: Seems to me a good way to raise the market wage for lawful US working class residents (something liberals would like) would be to deport the illegals (something conservatives would like but liberals oppose).

Yup, clever conspiracy from the Democrats.  Bring more illegals in to work for slave wages.  Mandate untenable wages for legals, thus creating pressure on businesses to hire illegals instead.  Basically the same con they've been running since 1861

Not a conspiracy. Just conflicting goals I'd say. The opposition to deportation since the 1970s has contributed to the perceived stagnancy of working class wages since that time.

Really? Nothing else could have an effect, huh? I'd like to see your research, and how you handled other externalities. Because I suspect that, as usual, you are a liar/idiot.

There are other externalities, of course. The fact that previously undeveloped nations have turned from subsistence farming backwaters to indistrialization is one of those externalities, that also affected working class wages in the US.

But if you don't think the increase in the proportion of non-US born residents hasn't had a material effect on working class wages, then it is you who is the liar/idiot.

In that case it should be pretty simple for you to cite a credible source on the subject, yes? You're really fixated on this one (small) factor, but you've provided no evidence other than your opinion that it is a significant piece of the puzzle.

http://www.fairus.org/publications/immigration-poverty-and-low-wage- ea rners-the-harmful-effects-of-unskilled-immigrants-on-american-wor


An organization that receives funding from a pro-eugenics group like the Pioneer Fund is not what I'd call a credible resource on immigration. Also a designated hate group. Pass.

http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10 25 &context=briggstestimonies

This source claims only that illegal immigration harms blacks disproportionately, as competition for low-wage/low-skill jobs (especially in large metro areas) increases where the two groups statistically meet. This is a fair criticism, IMO, but once again, high levels of deportation are not driving wages up. There is more to the story.

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/96nov/immigrat/borjas.ht m

In this article the author advocates for potential increases in highly skilled immigrants. He makes this point:

The large-scale migration of less-skilled workers has done harm to the economic opportunities of less-skilled natives. Immigration may account for perhaps a third of the recent decline in the relative wages of less-educated native workers.

But offers this counterpoint:

There are economic benefits to be gained from immigration. These arise because certain skills that immigrants bring into the country complement those of the native population. However, these economic benefits are small -- perhaps on the order of $7 billion annually.

With no citation for either. Moot point.
 
2014-01-03 11:57:08 AM  

GoldSpider: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...


I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT. Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

Change the law and I'm happy. The laws are no different in any other first world country. Try waltzing into Germany without papers.

He's being rewarded for passing the bar exam, not for being in the country illegally.


Indeed. In fact, as a result of being in the country illegally, he can't actually charge money for legal services.
 
2014-01-03 11:58:35 AM  

BMFPitt: ToastTheRabbit: Meanwhile I have to pay a 50$ parking ticket because California never mailed me my new licenses plates. Where are my advocates?

I hear there's this new lawyer in CA.  You can hire him.


It might have to be pro bono if he does. The court didn't rule if he can actually be a contractor and accept payment for his services.
 
2014-01-03 12:07:48 PM  

Rootus: A shining example of why citizenship should not be a birthright, but earned.  You get all the normal rights & privileges normally associated with citizenship regardless of your documentation status, right up until you turn 18, then you get to convince the rest of us that you're allowed to stay on the island.  Good luck!
Fine print: Since there is nowhere left to deport you, failure to complete citizenship requirements in a reasonable amount of time will result in your euthanasia.  Can't have you moochin'


Good luck with finding the funds for euthanasia. Schools have enough problems with finding funds to not kill the kids.
 
2014-01-03 12:26:24 PM  
UrukHaiGuyz:

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe for free."

It's always free shiat with you people.


yeah, yeah

www.avitable.com
 
2014-01-03 12:31:11 PM  

technicolor-misfit: serial_crusher: czetie: ToastTheRabbit: without reading all the posts...

...obviously...

I'm with subby. They are VIOLATING A FEDERAL LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT.

OMG they violated a federal law and were allowed to go on with their lives!!! NOBODY ELSE in the history of history has ever violated a FEDERAL LAW, been appropriately punished for that violation, and then got on with things! Or, GOD FORBID, violated a FEDERAL LAW and not got punished at all!

Hands up everybody on this list who honestly declares on their State tax return how much stuff they bought online without paying Sales Tax? Anybody? OMG, you are all VIOLATING THE LAW AND BEING REWARDED FOR IT!

See how retarded this is? Yes, they broke a law. It's a purely bureaucratic rule, but nonetheless a law. And yet, somehow, for some of you this particular law is some Sacred Principle of Ultimate Morality, and anybody in breach of it should become an Unperson... unlike all the laws that many of you routinely break, such as copyright laws, traffic laws, or tax laws. Do you not see how irrational this is?

/Also, you keep using this word "rewarded"...

When I get caught violating a law, I expect to receive proper punishment for it.  Ok, I was speeding, yeah I'll pay the fine.
I've never gone so far as to argue my way out of a warning and into a ticket, because I'm selfish like that.  But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning.


Well, aren't you just the proudest little authoritarian ever?

-

"Right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) is a personality and ideological variable studied in political, social, and personality psychology. Right-wing authoritarians are people who have a high degree of willingness to submit to authorities they perceive as established and legitimate, who adhere to societal conventions and norms, and who are hostile and punitive in their attitudes towards people who don't adhere to them. They value uniformity and are in favour of using grou ...


I'm actually part of the Slacker Party. Bob Dobbs For President.

/actually registered Stark Raving Looney party
 
2014-01-03 12:31:46 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: UrukHaiGuyz:

Maybe cause we have a sign out front that says something about sending us "Your huddled masses yearning to breathe for free."

It's always free shiat with you people.


yeah, yeah

[www.avitable.com image 300x375]


Breathe free, not for free, doofus. Why do you people always mangle quotes? Are you incapable of acting honestly?
 
2014-01-03 12:34:57 PM  
Hey subby can we start calling people who don't pay their taxes "Illegals" too? What they are doing is "illegal" too. Or this label only applies to foreigners?
 
2014-01-03 12:43:38 PM  
Anthony Acevedo. WWII medic whose family was deported back to Mexico in 1937. He came back to the US when the war started because he wanted to help. He was captured during the Battle of the Bulge and sent to the Berga concentration camp along with 350 POWs. Half of them died there. He risked his life to keep a journal of the atrocities that he saw. That journal is now in the collections at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. I'll take 1 Anthony Acevedo over an entire state full of self-entitled, racist, redneck idiots any day.
 
2014-01-03 12:45:29 PM  

ToastTheRabbit: I'm actually part of the Slacker Party. Bob Dobbs For President.

/actually registered Stark Raving Looney party



Sorry, I guess I should have removed all the other stuff, but that was in reply to  serial_crusher's comment:


"When I get caught violating a law, I expect to receive proper punishment for it.  Ok, I was speeding, yeah I'll pay the fine.
I've never gone so far as to argue my way out of a warning and into a ticket, because I'm selfish like that.  But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning."
 
2014-01-03 12:47:21 PM  

Corvus: Hey subby can we start calling people who don't pay their taxes "Illegals" too? What they are doing is "illegal" too. Or this label only applies to foreigners?


can we just call them all criminals?
 
2014-01-03 12:49:20 PM  

technicolor-misfit: ToastTheRabbit: I'm actually part of the Slacker Party. Bob Dobbs For President.

/actually registered Stark Raving Looney party


Sorry, I guess I should have removed all the other stuff, but that was in reply to  serial_crusher's comment:


"When I get caught violating a law, I expect to receive proper punishment for it.  Ok, I was speeding, yeah I'll pay the fine.
I've never gone so far as to argue my way out of a warning and into a ticket, because I'm selfish like that.  But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning."


the coffee is weak with me, I should have caught that too. Still was a fun discussion. I'm probably entirely in the wrong. I admit that.
 
2014-01-03 12:53:44 PM  

serial_crusher: ToastTheRabbit: actually deportations are at an all time low for citizens who have made it to america

I should hope we're not deporting our own citizens!


Actually, occasionally it happens. Too lazy to try and look it up but they deported some mentally retarded kid to Tijuana from San Diego. He was never found. It was years ago so my memory may not have all details or correct details.
 
2014-01-03 12:57:54 PM  

LadySusan: serial_crusher: ToastTheRabbit: actually deportations are at an all time low for citizens who have made it to america

I should hope we're not deporting our own citizens!

Actually, occasionally it happens. Too lazy to try and look it up but they deported some mentally retarded kid to Tijuana from San Diego. He was never found. It was years ago so my memory may not have all details or correct details.


Wasn't as hard as I thought. He only spent a few months homeless in Tijuana. http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2012/01/immigration-us-citizen-d e ported.html
 
2014-01-03 01:00:48 PM  
 
2014-01-03 01:01:01 PM  

wellreadneck: As a descendant of the immigrants now disparaged with "hillbilly", go f*ck yourself, mick.


This is why I love America!
 
2014-01-03 01:02:35 PM  

serial_crusher: But I always feel like society has been let down when the officer lets me off with a warning.



I bet you're a blast at parties.

/IIRC, I have an equal number of tickets and warnings.
 
2014-01-03 01:03:24 PM  

NewportBarGuy: As a descendent of Irish immigrants, go f*ck yourself, hillbilly.


Did they come over here legally or illegally?
 
2014-01-03 01:22:25 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Corvus: Hey subby can we start calling people who don't pay their taxes "Illegals" too? What they are doing is "illegal" too. Or this label only applies to foreigners?

can we just call them all criminals?


I wouldn't call a kid brought into the Untied States by his parent's "criminal"
 
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