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(Pro Football Talk)   Belichick: "Kickers are stupid, we should get rid of them"   (profootballtalk.nbcsports.com) divider line 134
    More: Hero, Bill Belichick, play action pass, field goal kick, XFL, touchback, placekickers, Rob Gronkowski, kickers  
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3674 clicks; posted to Sports » on 02 Jan 2014 at 1:42 PM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-02 01:14:37 PM  
"I personally would love to see the kicking game remain as a very integral part of the game so that the kickoffs are returned and so that extra points are not over 99 percent converted because that's not what extra points were when they were initially put into the game back 80 years ago, whatever it was," Belichick said.

I agree with him. I love special teams and they have been utterly neutered.

Also, he should check himself. He has 3 rings because of a very good clutch kicker.
 
2014-01-02 01:23:15 PM  
I have to say I'm amused by the idea of the scoring player kicking the extra point.
 
2014-01-02 01:30:09 PM  

nmrsnr: I have to say I'm amused by the idea of the scoring player kicking the extra point.


That would be awesome to watch.
 
2014-01-02 01:32:14 PM  
I agree, kickers are stupid. You know what else is? Quarterbacks. farking fancy little prima donnas throwing the ball with laser speed and accuracy. Football should be like it was in the 70s, when some lunkhead like Terry Bradshaw would launch a duck, and there was no telling where it would come down or if George Atkinson had left anyone alive to catch it when it did finally land.
 
2014-01-02 01:32:17 PM  
They need to change the rule so the most successful QBs are less successful too. Which means "what a whiner."

Just move the spot. Kickoffs from the 10, extra points from the 40. Problem solved.
 
2014-01-02 01:37:16 PM  
In the XFL, that Vince McMahon-run football league that existed for one season, there were no extra point kicks. Teams got six points for a touchdown and then ran another play from the two-yard line, and if they scored they got one extra point. The NFL actually experimented with something like that during 1968 NFL-AFL preseason games, and the World Football League had a similar rule, called the Action Point, in the 1970s. In the playoffs the XFL changed its extra point rule to allow teams to go for two or three points by moving the line of scrimmage back farther from the goal line.

I would love to see this, at both the college and pro levels.
 
2014-01-02 01:39:57 PM  
I like the flights of fancy suggested by this article.  Given a 99.6% PAT success rate, it just isn't a competitive element any more.  Bump that PAT line back.

Marcus Aurelius: nmrsnr: I have to say I'm amused by the idea of the scoring player kicking the extra point.

That would be awesome to watch.


Definitely some dudes that routinely score touchdowns that you wouldn't want to "rough."  That's for sure.
 
2014-01-02 01:40:25 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: In the XFL, that Vince McMahon-run football league that existed for one season, there were no extra point kicks. Teams got six points for a touchdown and then ran another play from the two-yard line, and if they scored they got one extra point. The NFL actually experimented with something like that during 1968 NFL-AFL preseason games, and the World Football League had a similar rule, called the Action Point, in the 1970s. In the playoffs the XFL changed its extra point rule to allow teams to go for two or three points by moving the line of scrimmage back farther from the goal line.

I would love to see this, at both the college and pro levels.


1 point for a passing score, 2 points for a rushing score for all PATs.
 
2014-01-02 01:45:21 PM  
Right, because Adam Vinatieri didn't save Belichick's ass a dozen times.
 
2014-01-02 01:46:28 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: In the XFL, that Vince McMahon-run football league that existed for one season, there were no extra point kicks. Teams got six points for a touchdown and then ran another play from the two-yard line, and if they scored they got one extra point. The NFL actually experimented with something like that during 1968 NFL-AFL preseason games, and the World Football League had a similar rule, called the Action Point, in the 1970s. In the playoffs the XFL changed its extra point rule to allow teams to go for two or three points by moving the line of scrimmage back farther from the goal line.

I would love to see this, at both the college and pro levels.


I'm in favor of giving 7 points for a touchdown, with the team then having the option to pay 1 point to go for 2.
 
rka
2014-01-02 01:46:31 PM  

factoryconnection: I like the flights of fancy suggested by this article.  Given a 99.6% PAT success rate, it just isn't a competitive element any more.  Bump that PAT line back.



DNRTFA but no. Move the line to the 1 yard line.

Doesn't change the kick materially but it makes it a much more interesting decision on whether or not to go for two.
 
2014-01-02 01:46:59 PM  
I hate Belichick as much as the next guy, but he is talking about extra points, not FGs....and i agree with him.
 
2014-01-02 01:48:25 PM  

Arkanaut: Right, because Adam Vinatieri didn't save Belichick's ass a dozen times.



Are you one of those people who tries to shame billionaires who call for meaningful economic reform too?
 
2014-01-02 01:50:05 PM  
Alex Karras (yes, Mongo from Blazing Saddles and the dad from Webster) - once said, "no football game should be won by a 110 pound immigrant."

Always makes me laugh.
 
2014-01-02 01:50:30 PM  

nmrsnr: I have to say I'm amused by the idea of the scoring player kicking the extra point.


That'll make it more random, but once receivers start practicing kicks I think everyone would regret such a move.

Just ban the holder, bringing back the drop kick.  It's tougher to execute, but with zero safety impact, and as retro as any aspect of the game.
 
2014-01-02 01:50:39 PM  

Arkanaut: Right, because Adam Vinatieri didn't save Belichick's ass a dozen times.


He had nothing bad to say about field goals.
 
2014-01-02 01:50:53 PM  
Just go triple-OT in college mode and force teams to go for two.
 
2014-01-02 01:51:46 PM  

Milk D: Alex Karras (yes, Mongo from Blazing Saddles and the dad from Webster) - once said, "no football game should be won by a 110 pound immigrant."

Always makes me laugh.


Kickers only pawn in game of football.
 
2014-01-02 01:51:57 PM  
Require the player who scored the touchdown to kick the extra point.

I would LOVE to see a huge lineman kick a field goal after recovering a fumble for a touchdown.
 
2014-01-02 01:52:42 PM  
Instead of the current uprights, replace it with a 2 foot wide pole.  You have to hit the pole.
 
2014-01-02 01:54:15 PM  

Milk D: Alex Karras (yes, Mongo from Blazing Saddles and the dad from Webster) - once said, "no football game should be won by a 110 pound immigrant."

Always makes me laugh.


As the 250 lb son of Canadian and Greek immigrants, that's why probably why he added the weight disclaimer.
 
2014-01-02 01:56:20 PM  

Arkanaut: Right, because Adam Vinatieri didn't save Belichick's ass a dozen times.


Weirdly, Venatieri's career average on extra points (98.5%) is lower than this years league average.
 
2014-01-02 01:56:30 PM  

Milk D: Alex Karras (yes, Mongo from Blazing Saddles and the dad from Webster) - once said, "no football game should be won by a 110 pound immigrant."

Always makes me laugh.


This is the sports tab, why did you feel the need to explain who an ex-NFL player was?
 
2014-01-02 01:58:14 PM  

extras.mnginteractive.com

*Agrees whole heartedly with coach Belichick*

 
2014-01-02 01:58:21 PM  

dragonchild: That'll make it more random, but once receivers start practicing kicks I think everyone would regret such a move.


The point is more that you're not going to spend a lot of your resources training receivers to kick because it's more important that they practice their receiving. Yeah, they'll get a day or two boot camp with the special teams kicker so they have some facility with the mechanics, but they won't spend weeks practicing, their skills at receiving are more important to hone. So a position player kicking will never reach the auto-point level of professional kickers. Even if it becomes like the free-throw in basketball which has, what, a 75% success rate? It's still much different than 99.6%
 
2014-01-02 01:58:22 PM  

jaylectricity: Milk D: Alex Karras (yes, Mongo from Blazing Saddles and the dad from Webster) - once said, "no football game should be won by a 110 pound immigrant."

Always makes me laugh.

This is the sports tab, why did you feel the need to explain who an ex-NFL player was?


He was also referenced in Archer as someone Lana would fantasize with while she slept with Pam.
 
2014-01-02 01:58:48 PM  
Move kickoffs back.  And make some incentive for the team to run it out... perhaps give the kicking team a point if they can put it in the end zone.  But then you'd have to do away with the fair catch.  And then you'd have to protect the kicker from getting creamed by downfield tacklers when fielding a high kick.

Or, you could go to a longer and wider field, which makes kicks longer and the hash marks further apart and off-center.  And you might add some length to the end zones, so that there is less likelihood of a kicked ball to roll out of touch.

All of these exciting options.  If only there were some place where these ideas had been tried and tested for over a hundred years to see if they would be entertaining or not.
 
2014-01-02 01:59:47 PM  
Make the 2 point conversion a 3 point conversion.  Also, make field goals only 2 points.

Alternately, narrow the goal posts to Arena League width.
 
2014-01-02 02:01:03 PM  
Someone had a great idea of, i guess how Australian Rules Football does it (??), the kick has to be from where hte player crossed the goal line.  so that RB that taps the pylon with the ball, that's where the kicker would be angling it.  that would be cool as shiat.

and yeah, the "player who score dthe TD" has to kick, that would be tits.  spesh the defensive scores.  it;s been said already but the big d lineman kicking, that would be a hoot.  Karlos Dansby had a pcik six vs the rams, i can imagine him kicking the FG.
 
2014-01-02 02:01:40 PM  
Make TDs worth 11pts, and extra points worth -3.

Make 2 point conversions with 4 points, but keep the name '2 point conversion'

Move up kickoffs to the 50, but don't allow the use of a tee.

Make kick returners tie their shoes together.
 
2014-01-02 02:05:37 PM  

bart2puck: I hate Belichick as much as the next guy, but he is talking about extra points, not FGs....and i agree with him.


I hate Bliecheat with the white hot intensity of 100 supernovas. But I think he's right on this one.
 
2014-01-02 02:06:40 PM  
They shouldn't allow receivers to wear those sticky gloves, but QBs should be forced to wear them.
 
2014-01-02 02:06:59 PM  
Hes just mad since he got caught cheeting trying to block a field goal earlier this year.


Once a cheat always a cheat.
 
2014-01-02 02:07:55 PM  
But if the NFL got rid of extra points, then we would only have one commercial break after every touchdown, instead of two. And that hurts revenue.


I'm sure Goodell is drafting a sternly worded letter to Belichick as we speak.
 
2014-01-02 02:08:11 PM  

nmrsnr: The point is more that you're not going to spend a lot of your resources training receivers to kick because it's more important that they practice their receiving.


In terms of implementation, yeah, but it's going to wreak havoc on the economics of the game.  A receiver that scores a lot of TDs AND can kick PATs will be more desirable than an equivalent receiver with a brick for a foot.  That just sounds like a really dumb amendment to a player's legacy:  "And he can kick PATs too!"

It strikes me as an incredibly stupid way to bring unpredictability back into the game -- remove specialization from a game that is dominated by specialists.  Oh, it'll be hilarious the first few weeks when some TE clunks a PAT, but come time when the games start to matter, everyone will detest the idea -- especially when every team will still have a placekicker.  It'll change the game, but not in any way that people want to see when it's their team trying to win games.
 
2014-01-02 02:08:47 PM  

Arkanaut: Right, because Adam Vinatieri didn't save Belichick's ass a dozen times.


This.
 
2014-01-02 02:09:46 PM  

dragonchild: It strikes me as an incredibly stupid way to bring unpredictability back into the game -- remove specialization from a game that is dominated by specialists.  Oh, it'll be hilarious the first few weeks when some TE clunks a PAT, but come time when the games start to matter, everyone will detest the idea -- especially when every team will still have a placekicker.  It'll change the game, but not in any way that people want to see when it's their team trying to win games.


Think of this... down by 6 late, 3rd and goal from the 1.  You sub in your KICKER at halfback!
 
2014-01-02 02:09:54 PM  
For that matter, if you take PATs away from kickers, most teams will probably just go for 2 anyway, and it'd become another one of those archaic rules buried to all but football scholars.  Might as well just ban them entirely and make every team go for 2.
 
2014-01-02 02:10:43 PM  
Make it a change of possession play. If you score there's a kickoff, but if you fail the other team takes over where they recover (missing would count as a turnover on downs)
 
2014-01-02 02:11:46 PM  

mjohnson71: I hate Bliecheat with


Don't hurt yourself now. I think we're out of Bengay.
 
2014-01-02 02:12:54 PM  

netweavr: Make it a change of possession play. If you score there's a kickoff, but if you fail the other team takes over where they recover (missing would count as a turnover on downs)


Opposing teams would let them score as they'd get better field position on the kick off than on the recovery.
 
2014-01-02 02:14:47 PM  
I like rule change threads.  It's like sports talk radio and everybody coming up with the trades the GM should do.

Ya know, I don't know why they don't trade Chris Johnson for Luck.  The Colts need a running game.
 
2014-01-02 02:15:15 PM  
The Flutie drop-kick was eight years ago? Time flies.
 
2014-01-02 02:15:40 PM  
"foot"ball... lmao..
 
2014-01-02 02:19:41 PM  

MugzyBrown: Ya know, I don't know why they don't trade Chris Johnson for Luck.  The Colts need a running game.


Because they need a running game, not a stumble for 3 yards and fall down game.
 
2014-01-02 02:21:31 PM  

rka: Doesn't change the kick materially but it makes it a much more interesting decision on whether or not to go for two.


I like a combination of the two.  Kick from the 10 for 1 point, play from the 1 or 2 for 2 points.

Arkanaut: Right, because Adam Vinatieri didn't save Belichick's ass a dozen times.


Trollish headline is catching many fish today.  Belichick's beef is with kicking for the extra point, since it has a 99.6% conversion rate in the NFL being no longer a competitive element.  Nothing said about FGs.

Why Would I Read the Article: But if the NFL got rid of extra points, then we would only have one commercial break after every touchdown, instead of two. And that hurts revenue.


I'm sure Goodell is drafting a sternly worded letter to Belichick as we speak.


Snark aside, this is a huge amount of money we're talking... four to six more ads per TD because of the PAT.  That has to be pushing a million dollars per game.
 
2014-01-02 02:21:44 PM  
I like the idea of having a rotating goal post during extra points.  Maybe it could even be controlled by the opposing team's defensive coordinator.
 
2014-01-02 02:23:04 PM  

Nadie_AZ: netweavr: Make it a change of possession play. If you score there's a kickoff, but if you fail the other team takes over where they recover (missing would count as a turnover on downs)

Opposing teams would let them score as they'd get better field position on the kick off than on the recovery.


Losing a lead isn't worth the field position if you trust your offense.
 
2014-01-02 02:23:55 PM  

justabitdisturbed: I like the idea of having a rotating goal post during extra points.  Maybe it could even be controlled by the opposing team's defensive coordinator.


It could be like the Globetrotters:

*Ref approaches kicker*

To score, you need to kick the ball through the uprights

*points to opposite end of the field*

Those uprights.
 
2014-01-02 02:24:45 PM  

justabitdisturbed: I like the idea of having a rotating goal post during extra points.  Maybe it could even be controlled by the opposing team's defensive coordinator.


Just throw a windmill in front of it like mini-golf.
 
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