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(Salon)   Rehab is biased against women. Tag is for reliability of source   (salon.com) divider line 164
    More: Unlikely, child custody, premenstrual dysphoric disorder  
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4469 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jan 2014 at 3:39 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-01 01:03:23 PM  
Meh, coke whore who makes bad choices finds it hard to quit making bad choices.

/the men have a rough time with that too, girlfriend
//if you can't like/love/accept yourself, how do you expect anyone else to like/love/accept you
 
2014-01-01 01:41:03 PM  
Binge and heavy drinking are more prevalent among men than among women. In 2011, 30.0 percent of men 12 and older and 13.9 percent of women reported binge drinking (five or more drinks on the same occasion) in the past month; and 9.1 percent of men and 2.6 percent of women reported heavy alcohol use (binge drinking on at least five separate days in the past month).


So why not just treat the problem like women are more entitled?
 
2014-01-01 02:26:22 PM  
Well, it's nice to see that FARK continues to verify that Lewis' law holds true.
 
2014-01-01 02:48:20 PM  
I'd never considered the child-care angle before. I can see how it would be hard for a mom to get help while fighting for custody of her kids.

Go to rehab = "You're a bad mom because you won't take care of your kids."

Don't go to rehab = "You're a bad mom because you refuse to get help."
 
2014-01-01 02:54:51 PM  
The linked article cites credible sources and specific complaints. What's the matter, subby? Did the mean old Salon print something you didn't like once?
 
2014-01-01 03:14:17 PM  

hardinparamedic: Lewis' law


How passive aggressive of you.  What's that?  Traditionally, when harpies cry about something not being to their liking or being sarcastically "typical" -then they actually are referring to one of three things. The farking article (TFA), the comments in the article or the Fark comments.

Since there are thus far 0 articles in the article and the article itself is pro-female to a fault that leaves two comments. Since I am not the other, I will simply defend mine.

I agree that women and men should be treated differently. This agreement actually goes against traditional feminism in the sense that feminists argue that women are somehow deprived of an equal opportunity as men. I should point out that they are deprived unless they aren't -in which case feminists argue for a greater abundance of resources (time, care, special treatment) be given to women merely on the basis that they are women.

Assuming that I made my case thus far (which I probably hadn't given that one could write a book on the subject) So which is it?

Do you want to be treated as equals or do you want special treatment?

It seems that the author of TFA is engaging in the "special treatment" option. Are you really that special? I should point out as in my Weeners that Men are the ones who  have a higher percentage of alcohol abuse.  Why should women receive specialized care? In fact, perhaps men should receive specialized care.

Oh wait a minute  did you know that the majority of homeless people in this country are male? And that of that homeless population they are likely to be alcoholics? And that there are more homeless shelters for women than there are for men?

Oh, blow me down. Yes, why not take what little resources there are and feed them to the women...
.
 
2014-01-01 03:21:34 PM  
Because People in power are Stupid: ANGRY RANT ABOUT WOMEN AND LINK TO MRA WEBSITE AS PROOF.

That's nice. Are you done? Some of us need the firewood from the cross you're up on.

In reality the article was talking about a publishedresearch study that will improve the ability of rehabilitation programs to deliver care to a subset of patients who have unique socioeconomic and social issues which typically impair their care and make their recovery and treatment harder than the general male population.

Only an idiot with an alternative agenda would argue with that.

No one is suggesting ignoring the problems with the homeless. No one is suggesting ignoring men for women. The only person who even mentioned it was you.


So, really. Go take your anger out on someone else. Or get help for it. You'll live longer.
 
2014-01-01 03:22:37 PM  
They tried to make me go to rehab, I said: "No, no, no"
 
2014-01-01 03:26:37 PM  

AGremlin: They tried to make me go to rehab, I said: "No, no, no"


To be fair, she probably should have.
www4.pictures.zimbio.com
 
2014-01-01 03:31:26 PM  

hardinparamedic: No one is suggesting ignoring men for women. The only person who even mentioned it was you.


Yet another straw man argument.

Where precisely did suggest "ignoring men for women " (sic).
 
2014-01-01 03:38:29 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Yet another straw man argument.

Where precisely did suggest "ignoring men for women " (sic).


Yeah.... If you're going to correct someone's grammar, you might want to work on your own before trying to do so for others. And Pedantry is the lowest form of refuge when you have no other argument to make.

Because People in power are Stupid: It seems that the author of TFA is engaging in the "special treatment" option. Are you really that special? I should point out as in my Weeners that Men are the ones who  have a higher percentage of alcohol abuse.  Why should women receive specialized care? In fact, perhaps men should receive specialized care.


When you're ready to stop lying about what you say because you don't like being called out over it, come back and we'll talk. But the fact you decided to have a knee-jerk rage fest on the thread because you seem unable to even RTFA and rationally consider that, perhaps, women - especially women who have children - might need to be treated differently and through different approaches than men - especially men who do not have children tells me you have no capability to do so.

You're not sticking up for my rights as a man. You're not sticking up for my theoretical rights as a man who's an addict to drugs and alcohol. You're screaming like a petulant five year old who didn't get a toy he wanted.

Seriously. No one is suggesting that men shouldn't be treated. No one is suggesting that women should be treated before, or better than men.

What they are pointing out is what works for a man in a certain social bracket will not work for a woman in another social bracket. You seem too blinded by rage to realize that.
 
2014-01-01 03:39:31 PM  
For all you true misanthropes... this is what a google image search for hot rehab women may yield:

www.bachelor10.com
 
2014-01-01 03:40:35 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: For all you true misanthropes... this is what a google image search for hot rehab women may yield:


Remember folks. When you want to be taken seriously as a "voice for men", you troll like a 14 year old who came from /b/.
 
2014-01-01 03:44:53 PM  

hardinparamedic: When you're ready to stop lying about what you say because you don't like being called out over it, come back and we'll talk. But the fact you decided to have a knee-jerk rage fest on the thread because you seem unable to even RTFA and rationally consider that, perhaps, women - especially women who have children - might need to be treated differently and through different approaches than men - especially men who do not have children tells me you have no capability to do so.


Actually I said the opposite.

Because People in power are Stupid: I agree that women and men should be treated differently.


But the truth is (and yes for your information I have volunteered handing out supper to homeless people): there are far more men in terms of numbers than there are women who are living in poverty. We as a society are chivalrous when it comes to women and contemptuous when dealing with men. Not egalitarian and that is what my 

hardinparamedic: ANGRY RANT

is actually about.
 
2014-01-01 03:45:53 PM  

twistedmetal: Meh, coke whore who makes bad choices finds it hard to quit making bad choices.

/the men have a rough time with that too, girlfriend
//if you can't like/love/accept yourself, how do you expect anyone else to like/love/accept you


ellenercolini.com

/can I get an amen?
 
2014-01-01 03:47:23 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: But the truth is (and yes for your information I have volunteered handing out supper to homeless people): there are far more men in terms of numbers than there are women who are living in poverty. We as a society are chivalrous when it comes to women and contemptuous when dealing with men. Not egalitarian and that is what my  hardinparamedic: ANGRY RANT is actually about.


No, you engaged in doublespeak that was doubleplusbad. In your "explanation", you went on a very bizzare rant about how men are oppressed and more victimized in society in terms of addiction than the article was willing to accept. In the same breath, you claimed that women want to be entitled and treated differently and "more special' than men who are addicted. You also argued that the fact that the volume of men is greater means that Rehabilitation programs should not follow evidence based medicine, and should instead maintain the status quo.

Not only is that idiotic, it sets rehabilitation programs up for failure. The actual studies are linked in TFA, even, if you want to go look at them.
 
2014-01-01 03:48:13 PM  

twistedmetal: Meh, coke whore who makes bad choices finds it hard to quit making bad choices.

/the men have a rough time with that too, girlfriend
//if you can't like/love/accept yourself, how do you expect anyone else to like/love/accept you


This sounds more like a whiney biatch screaming "I'm a fragile little girl so help me more!!!!"

F*ck off honey others have real problems.
 
2014-01-01 03:49:04 PM  
I gave it an honest three paragraphs before I just could not continue to give a fark.
 
2014-01-01 03:51:07 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Because People in power are Stupid: I agree that women and men should be treated differently.


Also, if you want to be taken seriously when you say this, don't link to an MRA Website in your reply as proof of what you say.

A Voice for Men is about as reliable as Fox News on Benghazi for telling the truth.
 
2014-01-01 03:54:18 PM  
So if you knew the info was shiat, tardmitter, why did you submit the link?
 
2014-01-01 03:54:54 PM  

hardinparamedic: Because People in power are Stupid: For all you true misanthropes... this is what a google image search for hot rehab women may yield:

Remember folks. When you want to be taken seriously as a "voice for men", you troll like a 14 year old who came from /b/.


First of all. I read feminist literature. My point is to not take this article seriously so I appropriated the discussion with a rather vapid and directed presentation.

Secondly, I never asked for "serious taking" and wouldn't give it on Fark ever again -so it should be a lesson learned.
 
2014-01-01 03:55:44 PM  

hardinparamedic: Because People in power are Stupid: Because People in power are Stupid: I agree that women and men should be treated differently.

Also, if you want to be taken seriously when you say this, don't link to an MRA Website in your reply as proof of what you say.

A Voice for Men is about as reliable as Fox News on Benghazi for telling the truth.


Meh. I presented a link to the front page. It was not a link to an article that I was citing from.
 
2014-01-01 03:56:08 PM  
I'm sure that the constant 13th stepping of the new female pigeons has nothing to do with the stacking the decks against women.  I'm also sure the Publisher's Clearing House van will be coming down my road any day now.


Yep. . .any day.
 
2014-01-01 03:56:17 PM  
All those in favor of dropping Because People in power are Stupid and hardinparamedic on a desert island where they can continue to bicker while the rest of us actually discuss the merits of the article, raise your hands...
 
2014-01-01 03:56:52 PM  

hardinparamedic: how men are oppressed and more victimized i


More straw man.
 
2014-01-01 03:56:54 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I'd never considered the child-care angle before. I can see how it would be hard for a mom to get help while fighting for custody of her kids.

Go to rehab = "You're a bad mom because you won't take care of your kids."

Don't go to rehab = "You're a bad mom because you refuse to get help."


If you are so hooked on drugs, alcohol, whatever that you need rehab, you ARE a bad mom.  You are the reason the situation exists.  Stop playing the victim and get some help so can be a good mom.
 
2014-01-01 03:57:17 PM  
It doesn't sound like she wants special treatment for women, just the option of gender separated groups, men may also benefit from this.
 
2014-01-01 03:57:33 PM  
The need for rehab is caused by women, not needed by them!
 
2014-01-01 03:58:45 PM  

GentlemanJ: All those in favor of dropping Because People in power are Stupid and hardinparamedic on a desert island where they can continue to bicker while the rest of us actually discuss the merits of the article, raise your hands...


I would like to point out that I am raising money for a Desert Island getaway paradise vacation.
 
2014-01-01 04:00:13 PM  
I can't wait for one of you to change the other's mind.
 
2014-01-01 04:01:23 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Do you want to be treated as equals or do you want special treatment?


Silly man, they want both.   Equal pay and opportunity AND special treatment when they want it.
 
2014-01-01 04:01:40 PM  

AngryDragon: ecmoRandomNumbers: I'd never considered the child-care angle before. I can see how it would be hard for a mom to get help while fighting for custody of her kids.

Go to rehab = "You're a bad mom because you won't take care of your kids."

Don't go to rehab = "You're a bad mom because you refuse to get help."

If you are so hooked on drugs, alcohol, whatever that you need rehab, you ARE a bad mom.  You are the reason the situation exists.  Stop playing the victim and get some help so can be a good mom.


yet fathers don't get the same level of criticism, if he goes to get help he is doing the right thing for his kids. Heck, he could be a dead beat dad for the first 10 years and as soon as he gets well and plays football with the kids one weekend he's a hero who's correcting past mistakes and trying to make things right.
 
2014-01-01 04:03:37 PM  
Because People in power are Stupid: First of all. I read feminist literature. My point is to not take this article seriously so I appropriated the discussion with a rather vapid and directed presentation.

Secondly, I never asked for "serious taking" and wouldn't give it on Fark ever again -so it should be a lesson learned.


So basically, you're just trolling?

Okay. *plonk*
 
2014-01-01 04:04:43 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: hardinparamedic: Lewis' law

How passive aggressive of you.  What's that?  Traditionally, when harpies cry about something not being to their liking or being sarcastically "typical" -then they actually are referring to one of three things. The farking article (TFA), the comments in the article or the Fark comments.

Since there are thus far 0 articles in the article and the article itself is pro-female to a fault that leaves two comments. Since I am not the other, I will simply defend mine.

I agree that women and men should be treated differently. This agreement actually goes against traditional feminism in the sense that feminists argue that women are somehow deprived of an equal opportunity as men. I should point out that they are deprived unless they aren't -in which case feminists argue for a greater abundance of resources (time, care, special treatment) be given to women merely on the basis that they are women.

Assuming that I made my case thus far (which I probably hadn't given that one could write a book on the subject) So which is it?

Do you want to be treated as equals or do you want special treatment?It seems that the author of TFA is engaging in the "special treatment" option. Are you really that special? I should point out as in my Weeners that Men are the ones who  have a higher percentage of alcohol abuse.  Why should women receive specialized care? In fact, perhaps men should receive specialized care.

Oh wait a minute  did you know that the majority of homeless people in this country are male? And that of that homeless population they are likely to be alcoholics? And that there are more homeless shelters for women than there are for men?

Oh, blow me down. Yes, why not take what little resources there are and feed them to the women...
.


You sound oppressed.
 
2014-01-01 04:05:58 PM  
Sorry, but here's the bottom line - if you need to go to rehab, you SHOULDN'T HAVE CUSTODY of children.
 
2014-01-01 04:06:36 PM  

ELKAY: AngryDragon: ecmoRandomNumbers: I'd never considered the child-care angle before. I can see how it would be hard for a mom to get help while fighting for custody of her kids.

Go to rehab = "You're a bad mom because you won't take care of your kids."

Don't go to rehab = "You're a bad mom because you refuse to get help."

If you are so hooked on drugs, alcohol, whatever that you need rehab, you ARE a bad mom.  You are the reason the situation exists.  Stop playing the victim and get some help so can be a good mom.

yet fathers don't get the same level of criticism, if he goes to get help he is doing the right thing for his kids. Heck, he could be a dead beat dad for the first 10 years and as soon as he gets well and plays football with the kids one weekend he's a hero who's correcting past mistakes and trying to make things right.


In who's world?  Sounds like a bad father to me until he sought treatment.  If he chooses to atone after that's a different story.  Unless the mom seeks treatment I see no reason to cut her any extra slack.  I apply the same standard.
 
2014-01-01 04:08:35 PM  

hardinparamedic: Because People in power are Stupid: First of all. I read feminist literature. My point is to not take this article seriously so I appropriated the discussion with a rather vapid and directed presentation.

Secondly, I never asked for "serious taking" and wouldn't give it on Fark ever again -so it should be a lesson learned.

So basically, you're just trolling?

Okay. *plonk*


I will be honest. I never understood nor understand the word "trolling". I present ideas. Whether or not you take them seriously HAS NOTHING TO DO with whether or not that I take them seriously.

BTW. I believe that we agree on many other subjects. (In fact I have that in agreement with many feminists that I know in real life.) I have exactly zero people muted in Fark against my better judgement... yet somehow I haven't suffered. But go ahead and mute me if you like. I'm apologize for any discord that I caused your fragile ego.
 
2014-01-01 04:09:52 PM  
"I was in groups and meetings with a bounty of straight men and though my counselors and sponsor were telling me that I should avoid dating for the first year of my sobriety, it was advice that I nodded at and then promptly ignored."

More like rehab is harder for those that don't honestly address the character defect of ego and think they know better than the counselors, their sponsor and the 100 of years of clean time in the room.

/if you follow the rules the program is 100% successful
//don't use, go to meeting, call your sponsor, ask for help
///amazing how simple it actually is when you just admit you're powerless
 
2014-01-01 04:10:41 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Because People in power are Stupid: hardinparamedic: Lewis' law

You sound oppressed.


I have been oppressed. I would give details but it would expose my identity. Perhaps we could continue the conversation offline?
 
2014-01-01 04:11:38 PM  

AngryDragon: In who's world?  Sounds like a bad father to me until he sought treatment.  If he chooses to atone after that's a different story.  Unless the mom seeks treatment I see no reason to cut her any extra slack.  I apply the same standard.


Your disbelief and anecdote doesn't disprove his argument. While you can claim to view the matter equally, the actions of society at a whole don't show the same approach.

The fact of the matter is that both men and women face substantial social stigmas for seeking help for drug or alcohol abuse. On the other hand, that stigma - like sexuality and taking on non-traditional roles in society - tends to be disproportionately applied.

Publikwerks: Sorry, but here's the bottom line - if you need to go to rehab, you SHOULDN'T HAVE CUSTODY of children.


So a mother or father who gets addicted to pain killers because her idiot primary care doctor threw escalating doses of oxycontin at him/her rather than actually treating her/his pain effectively for an injury should lose custody of their children?

DCS does such a swimming job of taking care of kids, after all.
 
2014-01-01 04:13:39 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: I have exactly zero people muted in Fark against my better judgement... yet somehow I haven't suffered. But go ahead and mute me if you like. I'm apologize for any discord that I caused your fragile ego.


You're not muted, you persecuted little sociopath. I'm not engaging in further discussion with someone who openly admitted the only reason he's even posting in this thread is just to piss other people off.
 
2014-01-01 04:16:47 PM  

hardinparamedic: So a mother or father who gets addicted to pain killers because her idiot primary care doctor threw escalating doses of oxycontin at him/her rather than actually treating her/his pain effectively for an injury should lose custody of their children


If there is not another parent that can assume custody until he or she is clean, yes.  It doesn't have to be DCS, but it can't be the addict.  My ex-wife was addicted to prescription narcotics.  Life was hell for all involved.  She was incapable of parenting or caregiving in any capacity.  It doesn't matter why he/she got addicted.  The addiction is an overarching problem that has immediate urgency.

Have you ever experienced addiction in a loved one?
 
2014-01-01 04:16:48 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: "I was in groups and meetings with a bounty of straight men and though my counselors and sponsor were telling me that I should avoid dating for the first year of my sobriety, it was advice that I nodded at and then promptly ignored."

More like rehab is harder for those that don't honestly address the character defect of ego and think they know better than the counselors, their sponsor and the 100 of years of clean time in the room.

/if you follow the rules the program is 100% successful


uh, no it isn't

//don't use, go to meeting, call your sponsor, ask for help


shortened that up for you there


///amazing how simple it actually is when you just admit you're powerless


You do realize you just contradicted yourself vs what you said on the two slashie line, right?
 
2014-01-01 04:17:13 PM  

hardinparamedic: Because People in power are Stupid: I have exactly zero people muted in Fark against my better judgement... yet somehow I haven't suffered. But go ahead and mute me if you like. I'm apologize for any discord that I caused your fragile ego.

You're not muted, you persecuted little sociopath. I'm not engaging in further discussion with someone who openly admitted the only reason he's even posting in this thread is just to piss other people off.


Think about it. I don't actually piss people off. People piss themselves off. The "Sociopath" slur means that I made you actually consider something -so I've done my duty.

I really did hand out sandwiches to bums though. I could tell you that those people are actually disproportionately women (which is why they needed me a big guy)...  I'm surprised that you didn't touch on that.
 
2014-01-01 04:20:19 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: The "Sociopath" slur means that I made you actually consider something -so I've done my duty.


Whatever makes you feel special today, guy.

AngryDragon: Have you ever experienced addiction in a loved one?


Far more in my family than I'd be willing to talk to you about on FARK.
 
2014-01-01 04:20:46 PM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: In who's world?  Sounds like a bad father to me until he sought treatment.  If he chooses to atone after that's a different story.  Unless the mom seeks treatment I see no reason to cut her any extra slack.  I apply the same standard.

Your disbelief and anecdote doesn't disprove his argument. While you can claim to view the matter equally, the actions of society at a whole don't show the same approach.

The fact of the matter is that both men and women face substantial social stigmas for seeking help for drug or alcohol abuse. On the other hand, that stigma - like sexuality and taking on non-traditional roles in society - tends to be disproportionately applied.

Publikwerks: Sorry, but here's the bottom line - if you need to go to rehab, you SHOULDN'T HAVE CUSTODY of children.

So a mother or father who gets addicted to pain killers because her idiot primary care doctor threw escalating doses of oxycontin at him/her rather than actually treating her/his pain effectively for an injury should lose custody of their children?

DCS does such a swimming job of taking care of kids, after all.


If you're talking permanent custody, no.  But if you've gotten to the point where you're using it chronically to the detrement of being a parent then you probably won't have time to focus on them and yourself at once.  The cause doesn't matter.  The point should be to clean yourself up to where you are a fit parent.
 
2014-01-01 04:21:30 PM  
I'm not really sure what she's arguing.  Being addicted to coke doesn't make you hooked on guys as well.  Women metabolize alcohol differently?  Fine, they get drunk faster...what does that matter?  It has nothing to do with the psychology of addiction.

She's not wrong about men and women experiencing differences in rehab, but at least in her case it seems to have little to do with the experience itself and everything to do with the fact that there were boys there, which really shouldn't be the issue.
 
2014-01-01 04:22:54 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I'd never considered the child-care angle before. I can see how it would be hard for a mom to get help while fighting for custody of her kids.

Go to rehab = "You're a bad mom because you won't take care of your kids."

Don't go to rehab = "You're a bad mom because you refuse to get help."


Custody battles are sexist against men, so it kind of evens out.
 
2014-01-01 04:24:15 PM  

hardinparamedic: Because People in power are Stupid: The "Sociopath" slur means that I made you actually consider something -so I've done my duty.

Whatever makes you feel special today, guy.

AngryDragon: Have you ever experienced addiction in a loved one?

Far more in my family than I'd be willing to talk to you about on FARK.


Fair enough.  Then you realize how urgent it is to get clean and what the impact of addiction is.  Saying "It's too hard to get clean" because you're female, male, a celebrity, are poor, have a job, whatever the reason is falls under the category of excuses.
 
2014-01-01 04:25:31 PM  

pueblonative: But if you've gotten to the point where you're using it chronically to the detrement of being a parent then you probably won't have time to focus on them and yourself at once.  The cause doesn't matter.  The point should be to clean yourself up to where you are a fit parent.


One of the points made in the article is that unavailability of temporary child care is a significant social barrier to seeking help for addiction problems for women. Financial issues (Yay for our lack of single payer) also function as a significant barrier to both seeking child care, and treatment.

Many addicts who need treatment are not destitute and living out of their car. They're functional addicts and don't fit with the common perception of a drug user. The typical alcoholic is not a cartoonish bum, either.

You're talking about people who rarely have good social support mechanisms, and may have even been addicted to their poison de jure because of self-medication for undiagnosed mental illness.

You threaten to take away anyone's kids, man or woman, arbitrarily for seeking help and they're just not going to seek help, period.
 
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