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(The Register)   The NSA spying scandal is actually much much worse than initially reported   (theregister.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Followup, NSA, Jacob Appelbaum, Tao, El Reg, GCHQ  
•       •       •

3874 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jan 2014 at 11:59 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-01-01 10:09:06 AM  
A system dubbed QUANTUMCOPPER also gives the NSA the ability to interfere with TCP/IP connections and disrupt downloads to inject malicious code or merely damage fetched files. Appelbaum said such a system could be used to crash anonymizing systems like Tor by forcing an endless series of resets - and makes the designers of the Great Firewall of China look like amateurs.

Why would they want to crash Tor when they can monitor Tor?
 
2014-01-01 10:15:00 AM  
Nice URL.
 
2014-01-01 10:15:41 AM  
All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.
 
2014-01-01 10:23:50 AM  
So lemme get this straight, it's not (for example) fark-dot-com, it's nsa-dot-com through some kind of mirror site that installs trackers?  That would be surprising, not in a good way.  More like the UFIA way.

I guess it would be OK since it was in a movie.
 
2014-01-01 10:24:46 AM  

mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.


Now with more drones.
 
2014-01-01 10:56:14 AM  
Or as the Register would put it BLAAARGH argh?  BUH BAAAHHH gurglgurgle BYEEAWWWW!
 
2014-01-01 11:05:44 AM  

mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.


Except when it's fiction it's cool, but not entirely believable.  Because hey, it's just the movies.  Real life impacts me differently.
 
2014-01-01 11:08:22 AM  

BizarreMan: Except when it's fiction it's cool, but not entirely believable.  Because hey, it's just the movies.  Real life impacts me differently.


How do you think the people who thought Enemy of the State was a documentary feel about sheeple like you?
 
2014-01-01 11:14:56 AM  

thamike: Or as the Register would put it BLAAARGH argh?  BUH BAAAHHH gurglgurgle BYEEAWWWW!


BOFFINS
 
2014-01-01 11:18:30 AM  

PC LOAD LETTER: thamike: Or as the Register would put it BLAAARGH argh?  BUH BAAAHHH gurglgurgle BYEEAWWWW!

BOFFINS


GAHHH
 
2014-01-01 11:31:22 AM  
Well, it was designed by the OSI

www.escotal.com
 
2014-01-01 11:35:03 AM  

ZAZ: A system dubbed QUANTUMCOPPER also gives the NSA the ability to interfere with TCP/IP connections and disrupt downloads to inject malicious code or merely damage fetched files. Appelbaum said such a system could be used to crash anonymizing systems like Tor by forcing an endless series of resets - and makes the designers of the Great Firewall of China look like amateurs.

Why would they want to crash Tor when they can monitor Tor?


Because they can't.
 
2014-01-01 11:50:26 AM  
As much as I hate the NSA and its collection of meta data, I am gonna have to say this story is over-blown.

We have nuclear bombs. Doesn't mean we nuke something every day. All this article talks about is the technology that we do have and not necessarily any activity that shows it being used.
 
2014-01-01 12:02:11 PM  

thamike: Or as the Register would put it BLAAARGH argh?  BUH BAAAHHH gurglgurgle BYEEAWWWW!


Is that the sound of a modem?
 
2014-01-01 12:07:22 PM  

mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.


This. If you were paying attention, you knew about this. And you'd have known that the government has been collecting "private" data on its citizens for decades, via phone records, photographing mail, and other such things..

The internet era just means we put more information out there to collect.
 
2014-01-01 12:10:12 PM  
So all the P.R. and hype for Cloud storage as the next big thing just went -bombf- and systems will go back under the local shell.  I'm ok with that.
 
2014-01-01 12:10:22 PM  
Eventually stories will come out about high ranking NSA people selling access to cyber criminals.

A judge will say, "Can't investigate. National security. Report on this and you go to jail. Here is a prerpared statement that it will never happen again, in fact never happened. You are getting very sleepy."

And we'll yawn. Just like always.

BUT RED LIGHT CAMERAS ARE NOTHING BUT A GREEDY GUBBMINT RIPOFF.
 
2014-01-01 12:10:37 PM  

LordJiro: mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.

This. If you were paying attention, you knew about this. And you'd have known that the government has been collecting "private" data on its citizens for decades, via phone records, photographing mail, and other such things..

The internet era just means we put more information out there to collect.


Oh.  So that makes it ok, then.  Good... I certainly feel better now.

Thanks, buddy.  :)
 
2014-01-01 12:13:08 PM  

LordJiro: mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.

This. If you were paying attention, you knew about this. And you'd have known that the government has been collecting "private" data on its citizens for decades, via phone records, photographing mail, and other such things..

The internet era just means we put more information out there to collect.


Back in the 1800s, your house could catch on fire, just like today. That's why you have no reason to whine about an oil refinery operated with slipshod practices next to your house. Because the threat of being burned alive is always a constant.
 
2014-01-01 12:15:56 PM  

thamike: Or as the Register would put it BLAAARGH argh?  BUH BAAAHHH gurglgurgle BYEEAWWWW!


i42.tinypic.com

i'm not only unsure just why i had this image in my random junk folder, i'm equally baffled as to why i have twenty five differing images with the same text....including this little nugget of wtf.

i39.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-01 12:18:28 PM  
is part of an information dump sent to German magazine Der Spiegel,

Stopped reading right there.

And we already a thread about this. Stay for the derpy paranoid comments, I guess.
 
2014-01-01 12:20:27 PM  

whidbey: Stay for the derpy paranoid comments, I guess.


i40.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-01 12:24:04 PM  
When do we meet up at Fort Meade to burn the place to the ground?
 
2014-01-01 12:31:14 PM  

cman: We have nuclear bombs. Doesn't mean we nuke something every day. All this article talks about is the technology that we do have and not necessarily any activity that shows it being used.


Your comparison is a bad one.  We don't use nuclear weapons because their use is completely public, and attribution is simple.  The use and abuse of secretly collected data is done in secret, and its abuse can easily be hidden.

Even if the collected data could be guaranteed not to be abused (an impossible notion), the mechanisms of a total surveillance state should not be built in secret in a representative government.
 
2014-01-01 12:51:30 PM  
The thing that cracks me up, when people like me were complaining about this ten years ago, the people complaining today were saying "if you've got nothing to hide, you don't have anything to worry about."

You're late to the game, jackholes
 
2014-01-01 01:17:07 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Well, it was designed by the OSI

[www.escotal.com image 800x618]


There should also be an Orwellian scale for level of intrusion into privacy.
 
2014-01-01 01:43:38 PM  
First of all,

LordJiro: mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.

This. If you were paying attention, you knew about this. And you'd have known that the government has been collecting "private" data on its citizens for decades, via phone records, photographing mail, and other such things..

The internet era just means we put more information out there to collect.


---

Exactly.  First of all, my actual opinion is that the NSA should knock it off, because eroding personal liberties, especially at the hands of one agency--not to mention, crippling security and the tech industry--is bad for the nation.

That said, none of this should surprise us.  The internet is the product of--guess what--the government.  The profits may have been privatized in the 90s, but nobody guaranteed hands-off from the feds.  The entire internet is basically government Facebook.  For you right-wingers, that means it came from the State, and You Didn't Build That.  For you hippies, that means it came from The Man, and it's not some kind of underground freedom forum.

Every time you use the internet, it's like sending mail in a clear envelope.  Even if you try to write in some kind of secret language, you're still essentially handing it off to the government, who can try as hard as they want to decode it along the way.  Again, these practices aren't good for the country, especially in the long run, but let's not act like this came out of nowhere.
 
2014-01-01 01:48:11 PM  
And it's not going to get any better until the apes take over.
 
2014-01-01 02:22:38 PM  

mrshowrules: Because People in power are Stupid: Well, it was designed by the OSI

[www.escotal.com image 800x618]

There should also be an Orwellian scale for level of intrusion into privacy.


My little joke was an obscure one because it requires understanding of the OSI seven layer model but since the article says:
"this year a tap was installed on the line by the NSA that gave layer-two access to all internet traffic flowing through that busy route. "

Which is funny because they installed a tap, which basically gives them layer-one access or more precisely (another geek joke): layer-zero access.

I know I'm a knee slapping laugh riot. Be sure to tip your waiterpersons. I'l be here all week.
 
2014-01-01 02:36:26 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: mrshowrules: Because People in power are Stupid: Well, it was designed by the OSI

[www.escotal.com image 800x618]

There should also be an Orwellian scale for level of intrusion into privacy.

My little joke was an obscure one because it requires understanding of the OSI seven layer model but since the article says:
"this year a tap was installed on the line by the NSA that gave layer-two access to all internet traffic flowing through that busy route. "

Which is funny because they installed a tap, which basically gives them layer-one access or more precisely (another geek joke): layer-zero access.

I know I'm a knee slapping laugh riot. Be sure to tip your waiterpersons. I'l be here all week.


I know the OSI quite well.  Just making an unrelated comment.  I don't have an issue with which layer they are tapping, the "who" and "why" they are tapping is my concern.
 
2014-01-01 03:14:45 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: mrshowrules: Because People in power are Stupid: Well, it was designed by the OSI

[www.escotal.com image 800x618]

There should also be an Orwellian scale for level of intrusion into privacy.

My little joke was an obscure one because it requires understanding of the OSI seven layer model but since the article says:
"this year a tap was installed on the line by the NSA that gave layer-two access to all internet traffic flowing through that busy route. "

Which is funny because they installed a tap, which basically gives them layer-one access or more precisely (another geek joke): layer-zero access.

I know I'm a knee slapping laugh riot. Be sure to tip your waiterpersons. I'l be here all week.


Funny, but the more I think about the NSA tapping Internet lines, the more it seems like they have access to Layers 1-3 using MAC address spoofing and forwarding packets to other networks.

Either way, they're in your tubes, watching your Internet porn, and possibly watching you watch porn, and possibly getting off on that weird kind of voyeurism.
 
2014-01-01 03:35:44 PM  

LordJiro: mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.

This. If you were paying attention, you knew about this. And you'd have known that the government has been collecting "private" data on its citizens for decades, via phone records, photographing mail, and other such things..

The internet era just means we put more information out there to collect.


Both of these. It's just NOT NEW people.
 
2014-01-01 03:39:32 PM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: First of all, LordJiro: mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.

This. If you were paying attention, you knew about this. And you'd have known that the government has been collecting "private" data on its citizens for decades, via phone records, photographing mail, and other such things..

The internet era just means we put more information out there to collect.

---

Exactly.  First of all, my actual opinion is that the NSA should knock it off, because eroding personal liberties, especially at the hands of one agency--not to mention, crippling security and the tech industry--is bad for the nation.

That said, none of this should surprise us.  The internet is the product of--guess what--the government.  The profits may have been privatized in the 90s, but nobody guaranteed hands-off from the feds.  The entire internet is basically government Facebook.  For you right-wingers, that means it came from the State, and You Didn't Build That.  For you hippies, that means it came from The Man, and it's not some kind of underground freedom forum.

Every time you use the internet, it's like sending mail in a clear envelope.  Even if you try to write in some kind of secret language, you're still essentially handing it off to the government, who can try as hard as they want to decode it along the way.  Again, these practices aren't good for the country, especially in the long run, but let's not act like this came out of nowhere.


Again, this. I wasn't implying that the NSA's nonsense was good, or that it shouldn't stop...it's just that it's so entrenched, getting it TO stop is gonna be damn near impossible. Our best opportunity to do anything meaningful was when the PATRIOT act was being pushed through Congress. People were saying it was an overreach then, but there wasn't anywhere near even the current level of discussion about it; if there had been, maybe something could have been done.

But the authoritarians in our government (which is most of it) saw that they could get away with openly passing that kind of thing. They now know that Americans are apathetic enough that, even if they DO notice this sort of overreach, they'll forget about it when some celebrity dies and/or does something stupid. They know they can weather any sort of outcry without changing a damn thing.
 
2014-01-01 03:43:44 PM  

Babwa Wawa: cman: We have nuclear bombs. Doesn't mean we nuke something every day. All this article talks about is the technology that we do have and not necessarily any activity that shows it being used.

Your comparison is a bad one.  We don't use nuclear weapons because their use is completely public, and attribution is simple.  The use and abuse of secretly collected data is done in secret, and its abuse can easily be hidden.

Even if the collected data could be guaranteed not to be abused (an impossible notion), the mechanisms of a total surveillance state should not be built in secret in a representative government.


The comparison isn't bad.  Applebaum is not bringing up the larger moral and systemic issue of oversight, he's just laying out the wares and capabilities of the NSA and saying "isn't this scary?"  No.  It's not.  I want my government to be able to do these things because we live in a world where bad people use technology too.  The question is whether they are violating my civil liberties to do so, which nothing Applebaum is exposing demonstrates.

He's just divulging the secrets that keep us safe without adequately demonstrating that doing so is helping in some way.
 
2014-01-01 03:44:53 PM  

cman: As much as I hate the NSA and its collection of meta data, I am gonna have to say this story is over-blown.

We have nuclear bombs. Doesn't mean we nuke something every day. All this article talks about is the technology that we do have and not necessarily any activity that shows it being used.



Don't you think the people in charge of those bombs would nuke a country they didn't like if they thought they could do it without anyone knowing about it?
 
2014-01-01 03:59:45 PM  

GanjSmokr: Don't you think the people in charge of those bombs would nuke a country they didn't like if they thought they could do it without anyone knowing about it?


date-masters.com
 
2014-01-01 04:33:16 PM  
All of this crap is just ones and zeros.  All of it.  And you can put them through any hoop you like at any level.  Just add electricity.  The NSA know when you eat, how many times you chew your food and when you s sh*t it out.  Isn't that impressive?  This has to be the most mundane, useless, loser job on the planet.  "WE KNOW YOUR EVERY MOVE!"  The things we do to make ourselves believe that we got some something over on the other guy are getting more and more laughable and insipid.
 
2014-01-01 04:48:35 PM  

mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.


So Snowden did nothing wrong then?
 
2014-01-01 04:52:31 PM  

Nemo's Brother: mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.

So Snowden did nothing wrong then?


No, Snowden just didn't do anything as heroic as his fanboys want to think.

He blew the lid off a colander, basically.
 
2014-01-01 06:22:09 PM  
static1.wikia.nocookie.net

Is shocked by these revelations.
 
2014-01-01 06:34:02 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Nemo's Brother: mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.

So Snowden did nothing wrong then?

No, Snowden just didn't do anything as heroic as his fanboys want to think.

He blew the lid off a colander, basically.


The difference is that he proved it with copious amounts of documentation. Previous revelations were lacking in actual proof and could be readily dismissed or denied.
 
2014-01-01 07:07:43 PM  

dittybopper: Gyrfalcon: Nemo's Brother: mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.

So Snowden did nothing wrong then?

No, Snowden just didn't do anything as heroic as his fanboys want to think.

He blew the lid off a colander, basically.

The difference is that he proved it with copious amounts of documentation. Previous revelations were lacking in actual proof and could be readily dismissed or denied.


The difference is that he put his own ass on the line to expose it
 
2014-01-01 07:21:13 PM  

NewportBarGuy: When do we meet up at Fort Meade to burn the place to the ground?


You don't even want to get a flat tire near that place.  No black helicopters but a fleet of black Suburbans and black SUVs.
 
2014-01-01 09:02:56 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Nemo's Brother: mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.

So Snowden did nothing wrong then?

No, Snowden just didn't do anything as heroic as his fanboys want to think.

He blew the lid off a colander, basically.


Snowden revealed nothing new about what the government could legally do, as it's been known since at least 1979 that the collection of metadata doesn't trigger the same Fourth Amendment issues that the collection of actual content does.

What Snowden did reveal was that specific companies were asked for specific records over specific periods of time, which is basically the equivalent of revealing that the police carried out a wiretap (with proper warrants and everything) on specific phone lines over some specific timespan. It doesn't tell you anything new about what the police can do - the information is redundant at best and at worst damaging to current or future investigations.
 
2014-01-01 10:12:11 PM  

Kibbler: dittybopper: Gyrfalcon: Nemo's Brother: mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.

So Snowden did nothing wrong then?

No, Snowden just didn't do anything as heroic as his fanboys want to think.

He blew the lid off a colander, basically.

The difference is that he proved it with copious amounts of documentation. Previous revelations were lacking in actual proof and could be readily dismissed or denied.

The difference is that he put his own ass on the line to expose it


Others also put their own ass on the line to expose stuff.  They just didn't have the reams and reams of documents to back up what they were saying.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Binney_(U.S._intelligence_of ficial)
 
2014-01-02 12:19:47 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Well, it was designed by the OSI


www.dvdactive.com

Explains pretty much everything.
 
2014-01-02 12:21:18 AM  

Wessoman: Because People in power are Stupid: Well, it was designed by the OSI

[www.dvdactive.com image 300x141]

Explains pretty much everything.


www.venturebrosblog.com

DAMMIT hotlink failure!
 
2014-01-02 01:08:42 AM  

dittybopper: Kibbler: dittybopper: Gyrfalcon: Nemo's Brother: mrshowrules: All the stuff Snowden is talking about now was described by 60 Minutes two decades ago.   The new stuff about hacking computer/mobile equipment was in movies about the NSA like Enemy of the State also nearly two decades ago.

So Snowden did nothing wrong then?

No, Snowden just didn't do anything as heroic as his fanboys want to think.

He blew the lid off a colander, basically.

The difference is that he proved it with copious amounts of documentation. Previous revelations were lacking in actual proof and could be readily dismissed or denied.

The difference is that he put his own ass on the line to expose it

Others also put their own ass on the line to expose stuff.  They just didn't have the reams and reams of documents to back up what they were saying.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Binney_(U.S._intelligence_of ficial)


There was plenty of information in Binney's and other's exposure of Trailblazer. That people chose to ignore it is hardly his fault.
 
2014-01-02 05:58:42 AM  

Gyrfalcon: There was plenty of information in Binney's and other's exposure of Trailblazer. That people chose to ignore it is hardly his fault.


But he didn't have the *DOCUMENTATION*.

If I come to you and say "Hey, X, Y, and Z is happening. but it's classified so you just have to trust me on this, but it's totally true", you'd rightly treat my information as suspect (or, at least, you *SHOULD*).

But if I back up what I say with an avalanche of official documents, it's much, much harder for people to ignore or dismiss what I say.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  Snowden provided that evidence.  The people who came before it didn't, not to the degree that he did.
 
2014-01-02 08:32:42 AM  
snowden was pissed at his employer; some of what he did release was beneficial to understanding how that division works. they're all still dickheads.
 
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