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(The New York Times)   It's begun. Millions of Americans are getting insurance and there's nothing anyone can do about it   (nytimes.com) divider line 103
    More: Spiffy  
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2664 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jan 2014 at 11:19 AM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-01 11:11:42 AM
14 votes:

SauronWasFramed: But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).


And if you're a young person it covers arthritis even if you aren't likely to have it for decades, that's how insurance works. My insurance covers cancer treatment even if I don't currently have cancer. My car insurance covers accidents even if I'm not currently in an accident.
2014-01-01 12:16:41 PM
8 votes:

Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible. Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.


Hi there, I just turned 29.  Thank you for picking out what healthcare coverage I need and don't need!   I'll tell my girlfriend/future wife, "Honey, sorry about that Maternity coverage, we just need catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  No more kids for us."   And her autistic 10 year old son who would become my step-son and come onto my insurance policy?  I'll have to find some way to relate to him that he cant have his occupational therapies which have enabled him to do things like, talk, stop peeing the bed, relate what he's saying in a coherent manner, etc, because we just have catastrophic coverage.

Again, thank YOU for picking out what healthcare insurance I needed!   I'z jus' a dum bastahd and dunz knowz whatsis any gud fer myself!  


You smug f*cking prick, go eat a bullet and rid this country of the problem.
2014-01-01 10:56:14 AM
7 votes:

SauronWasFramed: they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).


It's really unfair to force insurance companies to cover maternity care for men. Their annual costs for such coverage could end up being nearly $0, which will surely bankrupt them.
2014-01-01 10:15:10 AM
7 votes:
Thanks Obama
2014-01-01 12:38:28 PM
6 votes:

qorkfiend: Farnn: Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.

Yup. They don't need it, right up until they do.

SauronWasFramed: But have your policies been declared null and void by the government?

Lol.


I was 26 when I had my aortic aneurysm. Because I was in my 20s and indestructible, I didn't have any insurance. Hospital bills for my little "adventure" racked up to a bit over $250,000, thanks to the 26 and a half hours of surgery, the two week stay in the cardiac ICU, and that didn't even count the ambulance rides to Cooley Dick AND to Bay State after Cooley Dick realized that they had no surgeon who could perform the necessary surgery. The continuing bills were covered thanks to some state plans, and that got me and the wife through the three months of recovery time, but even still, we had to declare bankruptcy thanks to my aorta splitting like a bad seal. I'm still trying to get my credit back in order thanks to this bit of fun.

With the coverage that I had down the road, I we would have been fine. The deductible would have been manageable, and the continuing care aspect would have been fine.

With even marginal insurance, the hospital wouldn't have had to eat the cost of little "accident." The state wouldn't have had to waste time and effort to keep my ass covered with emergency programs. I had to get a hard lesson in the necessity of having insurance the old fashioned way.

I am NOT a fan of the ACA overall. Because it is a band aid over the real problems, but it's a step in the right direction. And the Sturm und Drang over it, is essentially a last gasp because insurance companies are realizing that the feeding frenzy is near done, and they are going to have to figure out a new scheme. It is NOT about care, it isn't about coverage, it's about profits, and tiny percentages of profit at that. This isn't about industry wide profits, but rather, the bonus structure, and realizing that one day in the future, their industry is going to fall over, and hedging bets to try to keep it propped up for as long as possible, before having to find new ways to rook folks, the government, and the health care industry in general.

lh4.googleusercontent.com
2014-01-01 01:33:01 PM
5 votes:
Self-employed mid-thirties Floridian with pre-existing conditions here. I lost my $798/month Aetna coverage a few hours ago, and I'm now heavily burdened by my new Blue Cross insurance which is a horribly unaffordable $354/month. (That's before subsidies, BTW. I'm going to front the premiums and file for the credit in my 2014 taxes provided I qualify.)

It's a platinum plan: No deductible (vs. $1,500 with Old Plan), $2,000 out-of-pocket maximum (vs. $7,500), $10 to see my doctor (vs. $25), no charge for routine labs (vs. 100% until I reached my deductible), pharmacy copays of $0-25/month depending on the drug and where I get it from (vs. $15 or more, plus a separate $500 pharmacy deductible), and all the doctors I currently see are in-network.

Shorter: I didn't like my old plan, and now I don't have to keep it. Thanks, Obama!
2014-01-01 12:40:48 PM
5 votes:

Mrbogey: theknuckler_33: Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

"How many has the law helped to get insurance versus losing their insurance."

"Lots"

"Hmm... your keen well cited argument has convinced me. Clearly it is a good law.

Wake me up when more people have insurance than those that lost their insurance. Since it's "mandatory" to have insurance, it shouldn't be too far off, it should seem.


You do realize that many who had their plans canceled due to not meeting the requirements of the ACA were immediately switched to another, compliant plan, right? Suggesting that all the people who 'lost their insurance' are now uninsured is disingenuous, at best. An outright lie at worst.
2014-01-01 12:13:01 PM
5 votes:

Whodat: This just in. People required by law to purchase insurance are now purchasing insurance.

btw, I just found that everyone has to carry pediatric dental insurance even if they don't have kids or the kids are 20 years old. It is the stupid things in the ACA like this that are the problems.


You do understand how insurance works, don't you?
2014-01-01 11:36:57 AM
5 votes:

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).


I pay collision on my car insurance, and I've never been in a crash.  Thanks, Obama
2014-01-01 11:32:47 AM
5 votes:
A series of last-minute changes in rules and deadlines for people to sign up and pay premiums have left less time for insurers to activate coverage and issue identification cards, adding to the uncertainty caused by the troubled rollout of the health exchange.
"There will be a lot of confusion," said Brian D. Caswell, a former president of the Kansas Pharmacists Association, who owns a drugstore in rural Baxter Springs. "Many people will get insurance cards, but will not have a clue what's covered, what's not covered and what they are supposed to pay."


For goodness sakes, it's not rocket surgery. If the bolded part is true, it is basically because those people are idiots and hasn't a damned thing to do with the ACA.
2014-01-01 01:03:08 PM
4 votes:

Bloody William: dopirt: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


Where do you live where a Bronze plan costs $940/mo?  I though you lived in Louisiana, but I sure haven't found plans even half that expensive.

Um, the very link he put up and information he gave us gave me $694/month with a $12,000 deductible, or $898/month with a $5,000 deductible gold plan.

SauronWasFramed:

Look up Humana Local Preferred Bronze, or Gold if you want the lower deductible. Local Preferred Silver will cost $787/month, but it has $25 doctors' visits and a $9,200 deductible. Not great, but not quite as dire as what you're getting from Humana National Preferred Bronze. Did you do much shopping for this?


Of course not. He hated the law before and spent all of 5 minutes logging in a checking one thing. As other posters have pointed out, if he made 75k or less (75k is pretty farking good for Mississippi), his payments would be about 1,000 dollars less per month. Just like all those other people that popped up on tv showed complaining about their prices. Once their stories were vetted it turns out they were either ignorant or lying. Some people are going to have to pay more (for real insurance), but these ridiculous claims are exactly that....ridiculous.
2014-01-01 01:00:03 PM
4 votes:
I have to say, "... and there's nothing anyone can do about it" is spot-on.  When I talk with these people IRL they sound like they're on the brink of tears.  Because poor people. Will. Get. Health. Care.

A relative told me that I was one of the "losers" with the ACA, as I'm going to be subsidizing poor peoples' health care.  "Yeah, that's the idea, and I count it as a win."

Seeing the red states screw their own because REASONS gives me equal measures of schadenfreude and horror.
2014-01-01 12:55:08 PM
4 votes:
I want you all to remember that nothing you say here will mean anything. That's why I always recommend ridicule and humor over reason.
2014-01-01 11:33:12 AM
4 votes:
But once this is a big success, how many of you will remember to thank your local GOP representative?

/by voting his/her ass out of office?
2014-01-01 10:37:03 AM
4 votes:
remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.
2014-01-01 10:34:19 AM
4 votes:
i.imgur.com

==

My GOD.....the horror....the horror
2014-01-01 05:35:08 PM
3 votes:
Hello, I'm British.

My health insurance is :Go to hospital. Tell them your name (or don't). Get treated.

My expenses: Maybe have to pay for coffee if I'm an out-patient.

It's great.


/sorry, just had to stick it in there.
2014-01-01 01:29:38 PM
3 votes:

Bloody William: More_Like_A_Stain: Farnn: Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy,

Remember, you CHOSE to take out loans to pay for a degree that did not improve your employment opportunities. Nut up Buttercup.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened to millions of students. They allllll went into vague, foofy fields because they wanted to become 17th century paleo-philosophers of southwest Europe and not because job markets change, the economy hasn't been great, the market crashed five years ago, and education prices have skyrocketed even higher than health insurance prices before the ACA.

No, it's all their fault, because the easiest answer to "why do bad things happen to good people?" is that those people must be bad in some way, and not because the world is full of unfair situations beyond anyone's control and that success almost always comes with a measure of luck as well as skill, and sometimes not even skill. No, it's the hordes of shortsighted young people getting degrees they know they can't turn into jobs. You gormless wank.


My daughter attended St. John's College in Annapolis, MD. St. John's offers a single curriculum, the classics, starting with Ancient Greek philosophy (they actually study Ancient Greek freshman year) and working their way up to Existentialism, or something like that. In other words, the quintessential Liberal Arts degree.

She got out of school, goofed off for a few months, signed up with a temp agency and got placed at a Jewish philanthropy in Boston (she's half-Jewish and half-Armenian). That turned into a full time job and she started at $40K a year, not an engineering salary but respectable enough for a 23-year-old, even nowadays. She's moved into an apartment with some friends and is paying her own way, including her student loan bills, which are considerable.

My point here is that a "useless" degree might not be so useless after all. She learned to reason logically, to argue effectively, and to write cogently. There are places where those skills are in demand and employers are willing to pay for them. Don't be so quick to dismiss non-science degrees as useless. They are what you make of them, and, as with everything else, hard work and a little bit of luck will see you through.
2014-01-01 01:02:50 PM
3 votes:

SauronWasFramed: Bottom line: the law is so broken, it has had to have numerous extensions and exemptions. It is so broken, Mary Landrieu, the deciding democrat vote, says it needs to be amended....because her reelection hopes are pinned on you being able to keep your plan because you like it


It's broken because it wasn't 100% perfect and has to be amended? So on that basis the Constitution was a total failure.
2014-01-01 12:35:42 PM
3 votes:
Wow.  I just checked the Washington exchange for the first time, since both my husband and I have full, no premium coverage through work.  I figured that covering both of us and the baby we have on the way would be crazy.

Nope.  Three people, $750 yearly deductible, $0 copay=$580/month.

That's only around twice what it will cost us out of pocket just to add the kid to my husband's plan, and more than what it would cost to add me and the kid if I lost my job.  And that's one of the most expensive plans out there.

Truly, this is the day America dies.
2014-01-01 12:26:15 PM
3 votes:

Farnn: Heliovdrake: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.

The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly.  Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low.   As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers?  Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members.   Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premium ...


You could also narrow the risk pool down even further by eliminating insurance. Everybody is on their own. A risk pool of one. Just look at all the money you'll save if you are never sick or injured.
2014-01-01 12:22:13 PM
3 votes:
My parents are saving over $900 a month to cover BOTH of them (my father was previously uninsured) on the silver level, compared to paying for the previous extremely shiatty plan my mother had for just herself. She is healthy and 61. He is 62 and has extreme back problems and cataracts that he will finally be able to get removed. It's amazing, this has been SUCH a blessing for him,and thus our whole family.
2014-01-01 12:13:05 PM
3 votes:

Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.


It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.
2014-01-01 10:47:58 AM
3 votes:
Tantruming child.gif
2014-01-01 10:11:54 PM
2 votes:
img42.imageshack.us
2014-01-01 05:33:10 PM
2 votes:

OneBrightMonkey: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

The Kaiser calculator (http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/) says you can get a Silver plan for your family, which after subsidies comes to $5,700 per year. I used 60K in annual income because I don't expect anyone to post their income in a public space.

If you make more than 60K a year in MS, then you can certainly afford $470 a month (according to Kaiser) to cover two 50+ year olds and a 19 year old. 60K there is like 160K in NY.

Did you call the help number and get a quote from an actual human? Maybe you have bad info?


He lives in Mississippi, which has all kinds of messed up issue with insurance.

Here's an article in the Mississippi Business Journal that goes into some detail.  Aparently, Blue Cross/Blue Shield was the only insurance in Miss., and had been exercising it's pimp hand recently.  In setting up it's marketplace, Mississippi found that no insurance companies wanted to participate in 36 of her counties, it took the state agreeing to a base rate of $300/mo for a 30 yo non smoker, with a 3x multiplier for age to get Humana and Magnolia to participate. This is where his $940/mo comes from.  Next year, or the year after, Mississippians may be about to get Multi-state plan with much better premium rates.
2014-01-01 03:43:29 PM
2 votes:

Daraymann: ...stupid, overbearing and solves nothing.


This, ladies and gentlemen, is the face of empty, blind partisanship.
2014-01-01 03:34:47 PM
2 votes:

Mrbogey: theknuckler_33: Suggesting that all the people who 'lost their insurance' are now uninsured is disingenuous, at best. An outright lie at worst.

Saying such is stupid at best. Retarded at worse.

Some switched. Some were dropped completely when their company left the state. It's entirely accurate to say millions lost their insurance due to the ACA requirements.

I'm not sorry that simple issues are hard for you. You have nobody to blame but yourself.



By that definition, tens, if not hundreds, of millions of Americans lose their insurance every year when their employers negotiate the new plan year. That's a stupid definition to use in a discussion about how many people HAVE or DON'T HAVE health insurance since that is what the ACA is all about.
2014-01-01 03:34:16 PM
2 votes:

mofa: I have to say, "... and there's nothing anyone can do about it" is spot-on.  When I talk with these people IRL they sound like they're on the brink of tears.  Because poor people. Will. Get. Health. Care.

A relative told me that I was one of the "losers" with the ACA, as I'm going to be subsidizing poor peoples' health care.  "Yeah, that's the idea, and I count it as a win."

Seeing the red states screw their own because REASONS gives me equal measures of schadenfreude and horror.


This. I'm subsidizing your kids in school. Or maybe I'm paying back from when I was in school. I subsidized old people when I was young and will be subsidized soon when I'm older. Suck it whippersnappers!

I pay taxes for wars I don't agree with and wars I do. I pay taxes for sports arena subsidies...which I really hate. My taxes pay for roads I use and roads I don't use, roads for friends and for enemies.

We are social animals, or maybe god made us social beings in likeness to herself, and what we do ripples out to society and what other people do ripples back to us. Neckbeards living in mom's basement interact with others even if just with the EMTs when their Cheetoh covered bodies are hauled upstairs after a heart attack.

We can do this intentionally and with open debate (ha ha) through democracy, government, and yes, the horrible dreaded taxes. We can do it semi-intentionally by what we sell, buy, work at, and do in our communities. Or we can do it without thought or planning and then wonder why cute, little Timmy died in the emergency room from an easily preventable disease (at greater cost than the ER) while Paris gets a fifth boob job.

I'm glad more people have better health care. I look forward to good debates about how we can continue to make healthcare work and make changes to systems for the (hopefully) better.
2014-01-01 03:33:57 PM
2 votes:

Aquapope: flondrix: jjorsett: This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example.

As opposed to pre-ACA, when men got boner pills but women didn't get birth coverage.  Funny how that works.

Viagra treats a physical, medical problem - ED.  Birth control doesn't.  That's the rationale, I think, behind not covering BC.  Plus, the religious right didn't think of conception as anything but a miracle, so why should you be able to.


Endometriosis and ovarian cysts aren't physical, medical problems?
2014-01-01 03:09:21 PM
2 votes:

jjorsett: This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example.


As opposed to pre-ACA, when men got boner pills but women didn't get birth coverage.  Funny how that works.
2014-01-01 01:23:42 PM
2 votes:

VTGremlin: Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed:

/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.

Nope, you're correct. He's either lying or has enough health problems that it's probably just time to head out to pasture and check out the rabbits.

My bronze is $165/mo with a $5,000 deductible.


He's either full of shiat, too stupid to fill out the forms correctly, or earns mid-six figures.  In either case no sympathy about his health insurance costs.  Silver Plan limits premium at 8.05% of income regardless of subsidy level.
2014-01-01 01:12:20 PM
2 votes:
Failing the kind of existential disaster the Republicans predict (entirely possible if Obama and the Democrats are hit with a stupidity ray from outer space or there is some other rift in the space/time continuum) the ACA is on track to being the most important, beneficial, and, ultimately, popular pieces of legislation in the past 50 years. In other words, it's going to be an unprecedented political and PR disaster for the Republicans. I have to say, this seems like a situation that could have been easily avoided. At any time since the 1980′s, during their twenty years in the White House, the Republicans could have instituted something similar to the ACA, and yet they consistently chose not to. Not only that, but whenever the Democrats proposed something along these lines the Republicans fought it tooth and nail, right up to, as we've seen, shutting down the government rather than acceding to the will of the people.

I've been thinking about this and I think it reflects an essential difference in how the Democrats and the Republicans operate. Democrats offer benefits to people in hopes that they will be persuaded to vote Democratic (I suppose that might be considered bribery, although how the Democratic bribery of offering people affordable health insurance differs from the Republican bribery of offering them lower taxes escapes me). Republicans, on the other hand, offer benefits  after the factto reward loyalty. You must first prove yourself worthy, by consistently voting Republican, before they will deign to provide you with a desirable benefit. This is, for instance, the logic behind Bush's Medicare expansion. Old people have a track record of voting Republican-reward them! Conversely, failure to vote Republican means you deserve to be, in fact you  must be punished. The real reason the Republicans have opposed health care reform is because the primary beneficiaries of such reform, the poor, tend not to vote Republican. Some people will say this is the Democratic attitude towards the rich-"They don't vote Democratic! Raise their taxes!"-but I assure you, the Democrats would raise taxes on the wealthy whether or not they tended to vote Democratic. It's nothing personal. That is not the case with the Republican attitude towards the poor, which is intensely personal and indicative of  a visceral loathing for the unfortunate combined with a gleeful pleasure in increasing their suffering .

It's kind of like training your dog. Democrats tend to overindulge and over-reward their pet constituents in hopes of getting their votes. Republicans seem more interested in beating their pets sadistically when they disobey. It's the old carrot or the stick dichotomy. Personally, I'll take the carrot; you can have the stick.
2014-01-01 01:06:53 PM
2 votes:
For people who like to throw around the 5 million number: you do know that is for plans canceled and not coverage lost, right?
2014-01-01 12:33:24 PM
2 votes:

Farnn: The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly. Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low. As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers? Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members. Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premiums that they don't need.


I'm a big fan of this plan as long as none of us have to pay for any condition you happen to have.
2014-01-01 12:21:22 PM
2 votes:
How does health insurance work?  It seems we have a few who need an explanation.  Here is a link which will explain to you how deductibles, co-insurance, out of pocket limits and co-payments work.  It only takes a few minutes to give you an elementary understanding.  Next up we'll cover risk pools and what it means to you.

http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehealthinsurance/individual/Intro.ht ml
2014-01-01 12:13:43 PM
2 votes:

ELKAY: My husband and I are thinking of switching to a plan we found on ACA's website. Right now we have insurance through his employer, our portion to cover both of us is 500$ a month, but the deductibles are insanely high. Plus its Kaiser so if we get sick when traveling outside of the state we are screwed.

On the ACA website we found a gold level blue cross and blue shield plan that would cost us 450$ a month, with no deductibles. We are holding off on signing up until my husband meets with his HR head next week to show him the plan he found. We don't want to pull out of our group plan and screw anybody over, but when my husband told HR about this plan they asked him to come with all the details since they may want to call blue cross and blue shield and move the whole company over.


And if HR moves the whole company to BCBS, that's a whole company technically losing its insurance because of Obamacare (no comment about replacing it with a better plan).  They lost their insurance!!!!!!
2014-01-01 12:09:14 PM
2 votes:
I imagine that right now in the Fox News offices, there's a bounty for the first person who comes up with the first big occurrence of an Obamacare failure (not that the same failure wouldn't have happened pre-ACA) so they can broadcast the important story to all of us - of course omitting several key mitigating aspects.  Something like this bounty schedule:

Insured person denied coverage for routine procedure - $1000
Insured person has to wait more than 4 hours - $500
Insured person gets wrong treatment - $2000
Insured person dies - $5000
Insured pregnant woman loses baby - $20000
Insured young white pregnant mother and baby die, with footage of distraught young, white, Iraq-veteran father, the surviving toddler son, and her evangelical parents bravely, yet tearfully, putting their lives back together with soulful piano background music and closing with soft-focus closeup of a teddy bear - $100000
2014-01-01 11:57:04 AM
2 votes:

Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed:

/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.


Nope, you're correct. He's either lying or has enough health problems that it's probably just time to head out to pasture and check out the rabbits.

My bronze is $165/mo with a $5,000 deductible.
2014-01-01 11:52:43 AM
2 votes:

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.
2014-01-01 11:47:42 AM
2 votes:

Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
2014-01-01 11:47:40 AM
2 votes:

theknuckler_33: "Many people will get insurance cards, but will not have a clue what's covered, what's not covered and what they are supposed to pay."

For goodness sakes, it's not rocket surgery. If the bolded part is true, it is basically because those people are idiots and hasn't a damned thing to do with the ACA.


My wife's last policy had a card and I knew very well how much it cost, but had no idea if it would cover anything. Her new policy can't deny her coverage because of her past medical conditions (fibromyalgia), so I'd say that's a definite improvement.
2014-01-01 11:44:06 AM
2 votes:

FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.


They will excuse the ridiculous rhetoric on the grounds that they were passionate about it.

Next tactic is obviously to trot out as many 'victims' as they can, but that will get boring fast.

The interesting thing will be whether Fox news holds their feet to the fire and asks the GOP

1) are you going to take away people's newly acquired insurance?

2) if not, how will you change it (in a way that satisfies TP) ?
2014-01-01 11:42:24 AM
2 votes:
Some consumers will go to doctors, hospitals and drugstores believing they have enrolled in a health plan, only to find that the company has no record of them. That is what happened in January 2006 when a prescription drug benefit was added to Medicare.

And, as we all know, that failure literally destroyed America.
2014-01-01 11:41:19 AM
2 votes:
Thankfully, some of us are still unable to partake of the ebil insurance because we live in states that didn't expand medicare/medicaid.  Thanks Kansas GOP for keeping me safe from affordable healthcare!
2014-01-01 11:38:06 AM
2 votes:

Farnn: Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.


Yup. They don't need it, right up until they do.

SauronWasFramed: But have your policies been declared null and void by the government?


Lol.
2014-01-01 11:26:24 AM
2 votes:
GOP: But... but once they are born, we try to kill them! You're not helping!
2014-01-01 11:25:26 AM
2 votes:
"With coverage," she said, "I can be my best self. Health insurance won't control my job choices."

Thanks, Obama.
2014-01-01 11:24:31 AM
2 votes:

Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 616x457]

==

My GOD.....the horror....the horror


I've been told by countless people on conservative message boards that because that man can get help, it's the same as Obama coming into my house and taking fud away from my cats and children.  Medical care would be totally affordable because all teh gov't intervention has prevented health care from being a truly free market.

Just like we've never had pure communism, pure libertarianism, pure socializum or any other pure thing.
2014-01-01 11:23:39 AM
2 votes:
Filthy Rich People: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! How will we deplete the herd of poors if they stop getting sick and dying? I like watching poor people die! DAMN YOU OBAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"
2014-01-01 10:59:43 AM
2 votes:

SauronWasFramed: //  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


Let me shed a tear for the backfat-snorting, rascal-riding populace.
2014-01-01 11:28:10 PM
1 votes:
The other is redacted, I try for perfection...

img41.imageshack.us
2014-01-01 07:25:50 PM
1 votes:

Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.


Do you understand how insurance works? How it has ALWAYS worked? It's not as if they bank your premiums to pay for your future claims; the healthy people pay for the sick people. When (not if, cause they use statisticals) YOU get sick, the healthy will pay for you. That's why your payments now go to the woman in Minneapolis with an ectopic pregnancy (even if you are a man), or the guy in Rochester with prostate cancer (even if you're a woman).

Oh, also, your rate is based on your age as well as other issues.
/ Bet you didn't know that.
//How can people with no concept of the issues have such heart-felt opinions?
///What a shame that despite the Internet, people still go to bed stupid
2014-01-01 06:59:48 PM
1 votes:
RoyBatty:What I am saying is there seems to be little difference between a policy with a $5,000 deductible and a catastrophic policy with much lower monthly payments and a $10,000 deductible

This site tries to spell out the differences between Bronze and Catastrophic but I'm a little hazy on the Actuarial definition, which basically reading to me that the "deductible" on a Bronze isn't the harsh out of pocket limit that the "catastrophic" is and that you're thinking. But the main difference is that the Bronze plan qualifies for the up-front tax credit for 45k single earners or less, to eat those premium increases up front for people who have the cost issues with it compared to catastrophic.

"Bronze plans will have an "actuarial value" of 60 percent, meaning they will cover 60 percent of all health care costs for the average person. " "Covers 60 percent of health care costs for the average person, and specified preventive services at no cost." "actual deductibles are likely to be significantly lower because plans must cover 60 percent of health care costs for the average person."

The catastrophic plan is the $6k and change of real out-of-pocket deductible like you're thinking. I don't understand the exacts of this bronze 60% nonsense, but it doesn't seem to be on par.
2014-01-01 04:50:14 PM
1 votes:

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


The Kaiser calculator (http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/) says you can get a Silver plan for your family, which after subsidies comes to $5,700 per year. I used 60K in annual income because I don't expect anyone to post their income in a public space.

If you make more than 60K a year in MS, then you can certainly afford $470 a month (according to Kaiser) to cover two 50+ year olds and a 19 year old. 60K there is like 160K in NY.

Did you call the help number and get a quote from an actual human? Maybe you have bad info?
2014-01-01 03:47:02 PM
1 votes:

Heliovdrake: So, When do you guys think that the GOP and their ilk will begin to claim credit for the ACA?

Ive got it down for about 1 year from now, maybe a little more.


Not before the midterms next Nov, because they have to spend all the time before using it in a feeble attempt to win.  By that time the ACA will be showing a lot of success and literally millions of people will like it.

Then, about 3-4 months after the midterms a few GOP guys not up for election in 2016 will float trial comments like "the GOP-created ACA".  Depends on how well that works for them to continue to take credit.
2014-01-01 03:41:53 PM
1 votes:

Arachnophobe: Aquapope: flondrix: jjorsett: This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example.

As opposed to pre-ACA, when men got boner pills but women didn't get birth coverage.  Funny how that works.

Viagra treats a physical, medical problem - ED.  Birth control doesn't.  That's the rationale, I think, behind not covering BC.  Plus, the religious right didn't think of conception as anything but a miracle, so why should you be able to.

Endometriosis and ovarian cysts aren't physical, medical problems?


Plus, how is inability to get a boner a medical problem? Just stop having sex. You can live without sex. It's more of a cosmetic problem like warts or moles. No reason to mandate coverage.

/note: not my actual belief unless you aren't willing to pay for BC
2014-01-01 03:41:08 PM
1 votes:

Heliovdrake: So, When do you guys think that the GOP and their ilk will begin to claim credit for the ACA?

Ive got it down for about 1 year from now, maybe a little more.


I almost forgot, I think one of the first signs well see of this, will be when they start calling it the ACA over Obamacare in congress and in places like fark.
2014-01-01 03:39:48 PM
1 votes:
So, When do you guys think that the GOP and their ilk will begin to claim credit for the ACA?

Ive got it down for about 1 year from now, maybe a little more.
2014-01-01 03:09:29 PM
1 votes:
Here is the problem that all you self-appointed "critics" of the ACA have - the only remedy you seem to offer, simply repealing ACA, would taks us back to our old system - one where we pay more than anybody else in the world for "insurance" that is really a "Christmas club" for healthcare that only covers 65% of our populace. By the standards you, yourselves, are demanding, that's unacceptable.
So.
What, exactly, ARE all these "problems" you think you have identified?
What solutions do you suggest?
What constructive input, if any, do you have to contribute?

If all you can do is biatch to no purpose, kindly STFU.
2014-01-01 03:01:31 PM
1 votes:

Mrbogey: Some were dropped completely when their company left the state. It's entirely accurate to say millions lost their insurance due to the ACA requirements.


SInce ACA requirements are everywhere, how does an insurance company benefit by leaving the state?
2014-01-01 02:58:44 PM
1 votes:

Daraymann: That's because they have to get insurance, or pay up and still not have it, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

/Farking liberals.


Yes, having healthcare is the worst thing ever.
2014-01-01 02:49:48 PM
1 votes:

Mrbogey: Some switched. Some were dropped completely when their company left the state. It's entirely accurate to say millions lost their insurance due to the ACA requirements.


Until you provide some sort of verifiable data from an original source, you're not doing anything but bleating out FUD.

Here are two links.  Yeah, yeah... biatch about the "liberal" sources... try RTFAs then get back to me.

HealthCare.gov also has a website specifically to help those who have been canceled.

Finally, bear in mind that, at least in 2009, over a million people filed bankruptcy due to medical bills who had insurance. That's what the ACA will do away with. People complain about not being able to keep their "cheap" plan not understanding that those plans were pretty much worthless if they contract a major medical condition.
2014-01-01 02:39:35 PM
1 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: The ACA is finally here!!  I hope it works because I love America and Americans.  If it does not work remember who forced it on us in the middle of a holiday night using a parliamentary trick.  My president Obama.  He owns it.  If it does good he is a hero.  If it does bad he is an ass.  This is his and his alone.


LOL.  I live in Minnesota, and I say exactly the same thing every day.  When I see someone driving down the road, I say "I hope you get where you're going, because this is American and I love Americans."  But when I see someone with a car full of kids stalled out with a dead battery in the -20 degree frigid cold, I just laugh and say, "you are in a bad spot because you are an ass.  That dead battery is yours and yours alone.  You own it."

I drive away and laugh when that happens.  Not my problem if their kids freeze and die.  I love Americans, but not enough to miss my favorite TV show.
2014-01-01 02:25:47 PM
1 votes:

jjorsett: The central conceit of Obamacare is that it has substituted the judgement of bureaucrats and politicians for the marketplace, and the only way it can possibly make that work is by force and fiat. Unfortunately for them, as evidenced by the ad hoc and chaotic nature of the delays and changes that they're making almost on a daily basis, it doesn't work.


That's only because the "free market" was killing 50,000 people a year because they weren't profitable enough to cover.

They forced the government's hand because they weren't willing to fix this situation.
2014-01-01 02:18:26 PM
1 votes:

jjorsett: No, the problem is forcing group A to share in paying for coverage that only group B can take advantage of, something they wouldn't do voluntarily.


At work, I pay the same rate for insurance as old people, women of childbearing age, smokers, and people with pre-existing conditions.  People with one kid pay the same rate as people with 12 kids.

Why aren't you complaining about that?
2014-01-01 01:45:38 PM
1 votes:

Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.


No subsidy means he's making more than 400% of poverty level.
2014-01-01 01:43:27 PM
1 votes:
But Richie Rich will only be able to afford a 105 ft yacht this year in stead of the 106 ft one! Socializmmmmm!!! Gaaaahh!!!
2014-01-01 01:39:17 PM
1 votes:

Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral. Never allow the facts to be introduced because nothing can be defeated if kept nebulous and theoretical.


Tell you what, for every one FACT (as in verified truth) you introduce that invalidates Obamacare as a success, I will introduce THREE insane talking points that conservative pundits or politicians reported as FACT. Shall we see who runs out first?
2014-01-01 01:37:23 PM
1 votes:

SauronWasFramed: But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).


I think it's terrible that normal men have to exactly the same rate for insurance as a defective woman.

If women wanted to pay the same rate as normal people, they should have thought of that before they decided to be a woman.
2014-01-01 01:23:04 PM
1 votes:
The poor and needy getting health insurance?

Clearly an abomination against the god of the GOP -- its name is so holy, I can only use a symbol to describe it.. $.
2014-01-01 01:04:37 PM
1 votes:

Farnn: Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy,


Remember, you CHOSE to take out loans to pay for a degree that did not improve your employment opportunities. Nut up Buttercup.
2014-01-01 01:01:03 PM
1 votes:

Bareefer Obonghit: I want you all to remember that nothing you say here will mean anything. That's why I always recommend ridicule and humor over reason.


Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries
2014-01-01 01:00:39 PM
1 votes:

Bloody William: Chameleon: Actually, he's right.  That's pretty terrible.  On the other hand, when I go to Healthcare.gov, I see that if you have an income of under $75,000 a year, you probably qualify for a subsidy which wipes out $900-$1000 a month, meaning you can that ridiculously high deductible plan for free, or get a plan with a $200 deductible for $375/month.

Man, I didn't even factor if he was eligible for a subsidy. My numbers were just what were available as flat rates.


I will admit that I didn't realize that the subsidy income level was such a hard cutoff, though.  It looks like for a family of three, the maximum rate for a silver is $619 if you make under $78,000 a year, but that cap is totally gone if you make $79,000 and you get pretty screwed.  I understand that there should be a limit to the subsidies, but it seems like that should be more gently graduated.

(numbers from here)
2014-01-01 12:53:10 PM
1 votes:

Chameleon: Actually, he's right.  That's pretty terrible.  On the other hand, when I go to Healthcare.gov, I see that if you have an income of under $75,000 a year, you probably qualify for a subsidy which wipes out $900-$1000 a month, meaning you can that ridiculously high deductible plan for free, or get a plan with a $200 deductible for $375/month.


Man, I didn't even factor if he was eligible for a subsidy. My numbers were just what were available as flat rates.
2014-01-01 12:52:09 PM
1 votes:

dopirt: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


Where do you live where a Bronze plan costs $940/mo?  I though you lived in Louisiana, but I sure haven't found plans even half that expensive.


Um, the very link he put up and information he gave us gave me $694/month with a $12,000 deductible, or $898/month with a $5,000 deductible gold plan.

SauronWasFramed:

Look up Humana Local Preferred Bronze, or Gold if you want the lower deductible. Local Preferred Silver will cost $787/month, but it has $25 doctors' visits and a $9,200 deductible. Not great, but not quite as dire as what you're getting from Humana National Preferred Bronze. Did you do much shopping for this?
2014-01-01 12:52:05 PM
1 votes:

VTGremlin: Nope, you're correct. He's either lying or has enough health problems that it's probably just time to head out to pasture and check out the rabbits.


You've overlooked a third possibility. He may be living in a Republican led state where the State gov has been actively attempting to sabotage the ACA. If that's the case, his numbers are probably accurate.
2014-01-01 12:50:04 PM
1 votes:

SauronWasFramed: You can't believe the numbers? You deem me a liar? Sorry, family of three: 52 male 56 and 19 females all non smokers in 39157 zip code. Go to ehealthinsurance.com and check the numbers for yourself. Look it up for yourself and see.

Bottom line: the law is so broken, it has had to have numerous extensions and exemptions. It is so broken, Mary Landrieu, the deciding democrat vote, says it needs to be amended....because her reelection hopes are pinned on you being able to keep your plan because you like it


Did you even bother to check for subsidies? cuz when I give you a $75K income (no idea how accurate that is), you get a subsidy of almost a grand, dropping your numbers down to A farkING DOLLAR after the deductible on that bronze plan, with the PLATINUM plan being $381, $2000 deductible, $20 co-pay.  Unless you're making $100,000 a year, which I doubt for some reason, you're either a liar or an idiot.  Either way I'd suggest you move, because Humana sucks ass.
2014-01-01 12:49:21 PM
1 votes:
SauronWasFramed:
//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

I don't believe you.
ronburgandy.gif
2014-01-01 12:47:51 PM
1 votes:
SauronWasFramed:
You can't believe the numbers? You deem me a liar? Sorry, family of three: 52 male 56 and 19 females all non smokers in 39157 zip code. Go to ehealthinsurance.com and check the numbers for yourself. Look it up for yourself and see.

Actually, he's right.  That's pretty terrible.  On the other hand, when I go to Healthcare.gov, I see that if you have an income of under $75,000 a year, you probably qualify for a subsidy which wipes out $900-$1000 a month, meaning you can that ridiculously high deductible plan for free, or get a plan with a $200 deductible for $375/month.

TL;DR Mississippi is terrible.
2014-01-01 12:41:45 PM
1 votes:
My wife, daughter and I were able to purchase a silver plan for $515/month with only $2k deductible.

No subsidy, but I wouldn't be embarrassed if I were to qualify for one.

Our old plan pre-obamacare was $550 a month with $2k a piece deductible.  None of us are sick or have pre-existing conditions and we are in our mid 30's so pretty young.

This is just horrible isn't it?

I'm so subsidizing the old and getting screwed,  NOT.
2014-01-01 12:38:02 PM
1 votes:

Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

You failed to address the 27 year old becoming the 54 year old.

Nice try tho.

So whatever my health care costs now it stays at the same rate for 27 years?  Sounds pretty sweet I better sign up for the platinum package and ride the gravy train.  Costs go up and as you get older you would move into a different risk pool and premiums go up.  It seemed so obvious I didn't think I needed to explain that.


wow, just wow, you still haven't addressed the 27 year old turning into the 54 year old in any meaningful way.  You gave us a nice straw man that doesn't exist tho, try again plz and this time less dumb.
2014-01-01 12:37:04 PM
1 votes:

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable



Where do you live where a Bronze plan costs $940/mo?  I though you lived in Louisiana, but I sure haven't found plans even half that expensive.
2014-01-01 12:35:12 PM
1 votes:
Be prepared for a new onslaught of: "What do you mean I can't keep my (out of network) doctor?!" stories.
2014-01-01 12:25:25 PM
1 votes:

ace in your face: My parents are saving over $900 a month to cover BOTH of them (my father was previously uninsured) on the silver level, compared to paying for the previous extremely shiatty plan my mother had for just herself. She is healthy and 61. He is 62 and has extreme back problems and cataracts that he will finally be able to get removed. It's amazing, this has been SUCH a blessing for him,and thus our whole family.


no no noNO!NO!NO!

THIS IS THE PROBLEM! IF OLD PEOPLE USE UP ALL THE HEATHCARE THERE WILL BE NO DOCTORS FOR JOB CREATORS LEFT!!!!

DEATH PANELS!
2014-01-01 12:15:31 PM
1 votes:

Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.


You failed to address the 27 year old becoming the 54 year old.

Nice try tho.
2014-01-01 12:09:09 PM
1 votes:

SauronWasFramed: itsdan: SauronWasFramed: But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

And if you're a young person it covers arthritis even if you aren't likely to have it for decades, that's how insurance works. My insurance covers cancer treatment even if I don't currently have cancer. My car insurance covers accidents even if I'm not currently in an accident.

But have your policies been declared null and void by the government?


No.  The goverment said the policies didn't meet standards.  It was up to the insurance companies to either bring the policies up to spec or not offer them anymore.  The government didn't cancel the policies.
2014-01-01 12:02:52 PM
1 votes:
Mrbogey

Living up to his name, trying to spready irrational fear.

Mrbogey, for when you absolutely positively  have to shiat the thread.
2014-01-01 12:01:49 PM
1 votes:
My husband and I are thinking of switching to a plan we found on ACA's website. Right now we have insurance through his employer, our portion to cover both of us is 500$ a month, but the deductibles are insanely high. Plus its Kaiser so if we get sick when traveling outside of the state we are screwed.

On the ACA website we found a gold level blue cross and blue shield plan that would cost us 450$ a month, with no deductibles. We are holding off on signing up until my husband meets with his HR head next week to show him the plan he found. We don't want to pull out of our group plan and screw anybody over, but when my husband told HR about this plan they asked him to come with all the details since they may want to call blue cross and blue shield and move the whole company over.
2014-01-01 11:59:02 AM
1 votes:

Granny_Panties: 19 Kilo: TV's Vinnie: FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.

You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.

Apparently Sauron was framed.

He was a big eye on top of a tower. I didn't see any frame.


Are you sure you didn't just miss it?
static.fjcdn.com
2014-01-01 11:52:35 AM
1 votes:

mjjt: The interesting thing will be whether Fox news holds their feet to the fire


The answer is they won't.
2014-01-01 11:51:18 AM
1 votes:
For many admirers of Jesus, it remains His responsibility to minister to the sick and the poor. So there.
2014-01-01 11:48:49 AM
1 votes:

Serious Black: TV's Vinnie: FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.

You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.

I haven't been able to break out this overkill of a list in awhile...

Authoritarian Collectivist Dictator-for-life and PresiDebt BaReefer HUSSEIN Fartbama al-Chicago is more evil than the combined evil of Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Vladmir Lenin, Josef Stalin, Josef Mengele, Vlad the Impaler, Emperor Hirohito, Ivan the Terrible, King Leopold II, Idi Amin, the Ayatollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Attila the Hun, Elizabeth Bathory, Irma Grese, Queen Isabella, Timothy McVeigh, James Holmes, Anders Breivik, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, the Zodiac Killer, Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert Fish, Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine, Lord Voldemort, Sauron, Hannibal Lecter, Vito and Michael Corleone, Nurse Ratched, Joffrey Baratheon, Aerys Targaryan, Magneto, Lex Luthor, the Joker, Galactus, Thanos, Davros, the Master, Rassilon, Cthulhu, Beelzebub, and Satan all tetrated to the hyperpower of Graham's number.


Where are the Kingpin, Doctor Doom, Arioch and Torak?
2014-01-01 11:41:07 AM
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.

You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.


I haven't been able to break out this overkill of a list in awhile...

Authoritarian Collectivist Dictator-for-life and PresiDebt BaReefer HUSSEIN Fartbama al-Chicago is more evil than the combined evil of Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Vladmir Lenin, Josef Stalin, Josef Mengele, Vlad the Impaler, Emperor Hirohito, Ivan the Terrible, King Leopold II, Idi Amin, the Ayatollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Attila the Hun, Elizabeth Bathory, Irma Grese, Queen Isabella, Timothy McVeigh, James Holmes, Anders Breivik, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, the Zodiac Killer, Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert Fish, Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine, Lord Voldemort, Sauron, Hannibal Lecter, Vito and Michael Corleone, Nurse Ratched, Joffrey Baratheon, Aerys Targaryan, Magneto, Lex Luthor, the Joker, Galactus, Thanos, Davros, the Master, Rassilon, Cthulhu, Beelzebub, and Satan all tetrated to the hyperpower of Graham's number.
2014-01-01 11:36:48 AM
1 votes:

Mrbogey: derp


"Sorry folks. It's the law of the land. Nothing can be done." -- some troll
2014-01-01 11:36:40 AM
1 votes:

Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral. Never allow the facts to be introduced because nothing can be defeated if kept nebulous and theoretical.


*facepalm* at least read the article.
2014-01-01 11:33:38 AM
1 votes:

SauronWasFramed: they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).


Yeah, that's how insurance works.  That's how it's always worked.  People who don't use the medical service pay for the people who do use it.
2014-01-01 11:31:04 AM
1 votes:
This is the day America died.*baldeaglecrying.jpg*
2014-01-01 11:29:48 AM
1 votes:

19 Kilo: Just like we've never had pure communism, pure libertarianism, pure socializum or any other pure thing.


Of course, paraphrasing certain wishful luminaries, pure communism hasn't actually failed.  We failed  it.

"Wishful luminaries" in the literal sense, as in "I wish someone would set them on fire."
2014-01-01 11:24:35 AM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.


You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.
2014-01-01 11:08:42 AM
1 votes:
This is bad news... For Obama.
2014-01-01 10:53:37 AM
1 votes:
So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable
2014-01-01 10:08:29 AM
1 votes:
The thousand years of darkness Chuck Norris has warned us about has begun.  Surely poor/sick people having health care will not end well.
 
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