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(The New York Times)   It's begun. Millions of Americans are getting insurance and there's nothing anyone can do about it   (nytimes.com) divider line 236
    More: Spiffy  
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2669 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jan 2014 at 11:19 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-01 11:59:55 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.


This one time I had insurance and it was really great and then Obamacare made me get gay married to a turtle in a FEMA camp by a Death Star Panel.  True story.
 
2014-01-01 12:00:30 PM

2.bp.blogspot.com


Health insurance = gas chambers.  WHAR is BIRF CERTIFICT for MUslin Kenyan?

 
2014-01-01 12:01:49 PM
My husband and I are thinking of switching to a plan we found on ACA's website. Right now we have insurance through his employer, our portion to cover both of us is 500$ a month, but the deductibles are insanely high. Plus its Kaiser so if we get sick when traveling outside of the state we are screwed.

On the ACA website we found a gold level blue cross and blue shield plan that would cost us 450$ a month, with no deductibles. We are holding off on signing up until my husband meets with his HR head next week to show him the plan he found. We don't want to pull out of our group plan and screw anybody over, but when my husband told HR about this plan they asked him to come with all the details since they may want to call blue cross and blue shield and move the whole company over.
 
2014-01-01 12:02:36 PM
This just in. People required by law to purchase insurance are now purchasing insurance.

btw, I just found that everyone has to carry pediatric dental insurance even if they don't have kids or the kids are 20 years old. It is the stupid things in the ACA like this that are the problems.
 
2014-01-01 12:02:46 PM

theknuckler_33: Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question


"How many has the law helped to get insurance versus losing their insurance."

"Lots"

"Hmm... your keen well cited argument has convinced me. Clearly it is a good law.

Wake me up when more people have insurance than those that lost their insurance. Since it's "mandatory" to have insurance, it shouldn't be too far off, it should seem.
 
2014-01-01 12:02:52 PM
Mrbogey

Living up to his name, trying to spready irrational fear.

Mrbogey, for when you absolutely positively  have to shiat the thread.
 
2014-01-01 12:03:48 PM

praymantis: Is it the people who lost their previous insurance because of the new law signing up for new insurance or is it really those 15,29,40 million people who did not have it in the first place? (I don't think anyone really new how many uninsured there were  but I heard those numbers during the passing of the bill)


I can only use my personal anecdote, my insurance is getting cancelled, but not until November 30th of this year 2014.  I wonder how many of those losing insurance numbers have included those who haven't actually lost it yet.

/looked at the exchanges this year but decided to stick with what I have
//will be happy to use it next year if I don't have employer insurance then
 
2014-01-01 12:05:30 PM

Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.


Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.
 
2014-01-01 12:06:15 PM

Whodat: This just in. People required by law to purchase insurance are now purchasing insurance.

btw, I just found that everyone has to carry pediatric dental insurance even if they don't have kids or the kids are 20 years old. It is the stupid things in the ACA like this that are the problems.


Yep, lots of dumb crap got stuffed into the bill and the insurance companies are raking in the money.  And in general dental insurance is terrible, it doesn't cover that much and has a pretty low maximum payout.
 
2014-01-01 12:06:45 PM

ELKAY: My husband and I are thinking of switching to a plan we found on ACA's website. Right now we have insurance through his employer, our portion to cover both of us is 500$ a month, but the deductibles are insanely high. Plus its Kaiser so if we get sick when traveling outside of the state we are screwed.

On the ACA website we found a gold level blue cross and blue shield plan that would cost us 450$ a month, with no deductibles. We are holding off on signing up until my husband meets with his HR head next week to show him the plan he found. We don't want to pull out of our group plan and screw anybody over, but when my husband told HR about this plan they asked him to come with all the details since they may want to call blue cross and blue shield and move the whole company over.


no no noNoNoNoNO!!!!

NONONONONO!

you are part of the problem spreading obongofartcare!

THEY WILL DEATH PANEL YOUR ENTIRE COMPANY!!!
 
2014-01-01 12:09:09 PM

SauronWasFramed: itsdan: SauronWasFramed: But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

And if you're a young person it covers arthritis even if you aren't likely to have it for decades, that's how insurance works. My insurance covers cancer treatment even if I don't currently have cancer. My car insurance covers accidents even if I'm not currently in an accident.

But have your policies been declared null and void by the government?


No.  The goverment said the policies didn't meet standards.  It was up to the insurance companies to either bring the policies up to spec or not offer them anymore.  The government didn't cancel the policies.
 
2014-01-01 12:09:14 PM
I imagine that right now in the Fox News offices, there's a bounty for the first person who comes up with the first big occurrence of an Obamacare failure (not that the same failure wouldn't have happened pre-ACA) so they can broadcast the important story to all of us - of course omitting several key mitigating aspects.  Something like this bounty schedule:

Insured person denied coverage for routine procedure - $1000
Insured person has to wait more than 4 hours - $500
Insured person gets wrong treatment - $2000
Insured person dies - $5000
Insured pregnant woman loses baby - $20000
Insured young white pregnant mother and baby die, with footage of distraught young, white, Iraq-veteran father, the surviving toddler son, and her evangelical parents bravely, yet tearfully, putting their lives back together with soulful piano background music and closing with soft-focus closeup of a teddy bear - $100000
 
2014-01-01 12:10:04 PM

JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.


So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.
 
2014-01-01 12:13:01 PM

Whodat: This just in. People required by law to purchase insurance are now purchasing insurance.

btw, I just found that everyone has to carry pediatric dental insurance even if they don't have kids or the kids are 20 years old. It is the stupid things in the ACA like this that are the problems.


You do understand how insurance works, don't you?
 
2014-01-01 12:13:05 PM

Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.


It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.
 
2014-01-01 12:13:43 PM

ELKAY: My husband and I are thinking of switching to a plan we found on ACA's website. Right now we have insurance through his employer, our portion to cover both of us is 500$ a month, but the deductibles are insanely high. Plus its Kaiser so if we get sick when traveling outside of the state we are screwed.

On the ACA website we found a gold level blue cross and blue shield plan that would cost us 450$ a month, with no deductibles. We are holding off on signing up until my husband meets with his HR head next week to show him the plan he found. We don't want to pull out of our group plan and screw anybody over, but when my husband told HR about this plan they asked him to come with all the details since they may want to call blue cross and blue shield and move the whole company over.


And if HR moves the whole company to BCBS, that's a whole company technically losing its insurance because of Obamacare (no comment about replacing it with a better plan).  They lost their insurance!!!!!!
 
2014-01-01 12:15:31 PM

Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.


You failed to address the 27 year old becoming the 54 year old.

Nice try tho.
 
2014-01-01 12:16:41 PM

Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible. Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.


Hi there, I just turned 29.  Thank you for picking out what healthcare coverage I need and don't need!   I'll tell my girlfriend/future wife, "Honey, sorry about that Maternity coverage, we just need catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  No more kids for us."   And her autistic 10 year old son who would become my step-son and come onto my insurance policy?  I'll have to find some way to relate to him that he cant have his occupational therapies which have enabled him to do things like, talk, stop peeing the bed, relate what he's saying in a coherent manner, etc, because we just have catastrophic coverage.

Again, thank YOU for picking out what healthcare insurance I needed!   I'z jus' a dum bastahd and dunz knowz whatsis any gud fer myself!  


You smug f*cking prick, go eat a bullet and rid this country of the problem.
 
2014-01-01 12:18:12 PM
butthurteverywhere.jpg
 
2014-01-01 12:18:26 PM

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


Counting those who now get Medicare because of the ACA it is 6 MILLION!
 
2014-01-01 12:21:22 PM
How does health insurance work?  It seems we have a few who need an explanation.  Here is a link which will explain to you how deductibles, co-insurance, out of pocket limits and co-payments work.  It only takes a few minutes to give you an elementary understanding.  Next up we'll cover risk pools and what it means to you.

http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehealthinsurance/individual/Intro.ht ml
 
2014-01-01 12:22:13 PM
My parents are saving over $900 a month to cover BOTH of them (my father was previously uninsured) on the silver level, compared to paying for the previous extremely shiatty plan my mother had for just herself. She is healthy and 61. He is 62 and has extreme back problems and cataracts that he will finally be able to get removed. It's amazing, this has been SUCH a blessing for him,and thus our whole family.
 
2014-01-01 12:22:27 PM

Heliovdrake: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.


The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly.  Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low.   As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers?  Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members.   Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premiums that they don't need.
 
2014-01-01 12:25:25 PM

ace in your face: My parents are saving over $900 a month to cover BOTH of them (my father was previously uninsured) on the silver level, compared to paying for the previous extremely shiatty plan my mother had for just herself. She is healthy and 61. He is 62 and has extreme back problems and cataracts that he will finally be able to get removed. It's amazing, this has been SUCH a blessing for him,and thus our whole family.


no no noNO!NO!NO!

THIS IS THE PROBLEM! IF OLD PEOPLE USE UP ALL THE HEATHCARE THERE WILL BE NO DOCTORS FOR JOB CREATORS LEFT!!!!

DEATH PANELS!
 
2014-01-01 12:26:02 PM
<p><strong><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/8082381/88466649#c88466649">VTGreml in</a>:</strong> <em>Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed:<br /><br />/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?<br /><br />//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable<br /><br />That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.<br /><br />Nope, you're correct. He's either lying or has enough health problems that it's probably just time to head out to pasture and check out the rabbits.<br /><br />My bronze is $165/mo with a $5,000 deductible.</em><br /><br /> </p>

You can't believe the numbers? You deem me a liar? Sorry, family of three: 52 male 56 and 19 females all non smokers in 39157 zip code. Go to ehealthinsurance.com and check the numbers for yourself. Look it up for yourself and see.

Bottom line: the law is so broken, it has had to have numerous extensions and exemptions. It is so broken, Mary Landrieu, the deciding democrat vote, says it needs to be amended....because her reelection hopes are pinned on you being able to keep your plan because you like it
 
2014-01-01 12:26:11 PM

ace in your face: My parents are saving over $900 a month to cover BOTH of them (my father was previously uninsured) on the silver level, compared to paying for the previous extremely shiatty plan my mother had for just herself. She is healthy and 61. He is 62 and has extreme back problems and cataracts that he will finally be able to get removed. It's amazing, this has been SUCH a blessing for him,and thus our whole family.


I think you meant to say that it's the worse thing since Hitler.
 
2014-01-01 12:26:15 PM

Farnn: Heliovdrake: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.

The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly.  Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low.   As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers?  Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members.   Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premium ...


You could also narrow the risk pool down even further by eliminating insurance. Everybody is on their own. A risk pool of one. Just look at all the money you'll save if you are never sick or injured.
 
2014-01-01 12:27:12 PM

JolobinSmokin: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

You failed to address the 27 year old becoming the 54 year old.

Nice try tho.


So whatever my health care costs now it stays at the same rate for 27 years?  Sounds pretty sweet I better sign up for the platinum package and ride the gravy train.  Costs go up and as you get older you would move into a different risk pool and premiums go up.  It seemed so obvious I didn't think I needed to explain that.
 
2014-01-01 12:29:04 PM

Corvus: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

Counting those who now get Medicare because of the ACA it is 6 MILLION!


Did you mean to type Medicaid rather than Medicare? The ACA did not change the number of people on Medicare that I know of.
 
2014-01-01 12:29:39 PM

Third Day Mark: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible. Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Hi there, I just turned 29.  Thank you for picking out what healthcare coverage I need and don't need!   I'll tell my girlfriend/future wife, "Honey, sorry about that Maternity coverage, we just need catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  No more kids for us."   And her autistic 10 year old son who would become my step-son and come onto my insurance policy?  I'll have to find some way to relate to him that he cant have his occupational therapies which have enabled him to do things like, talk, stop peeing the bed, relate what he's saying in a coherent manner, etc, because we just have catastrophic coverage.

Again, thank YOU for picking out what healthcare insurance I needed!   I'z jus' a dum bastahd and dunz knowz whatsis any gud fer myself!  


You smug f*cking prick, go eat a bullet and rid this country of the problem.


I wasn't telling you what care you need and don't need, that's what the ACA is telling you.  You should have a choice of a bare bones plan or more comprehensive coverage depending on what is best for you.  And it's very noble of you to adopt your girlfriends 10 year old autistic son, many people would run away from something like that.
 
2014-01-01 12:31:07 PM

Farnn: Heliovdrake: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.

The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly.  Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low.   As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers?  Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members.   Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premium ...


So you think old people SHOULD be crippled by those costs?  'Cuz I'd rather nobody be crippled, and the evidence - your (most likely) bullshiat numbers notwithstanding - is so far saying that they won't be.
 
2014-01-01 12:31:21 PM

thamike: 19 Kilo: Davros

[static2.wikia.nocookie.net image 427x610]

WHOOPS, WRONG THREAD



I laughed.
 
2014-01-01 12:33:24 PM

Farnn: The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly. Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low. As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers? Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members. Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premiums that they don't need.


I'm a big fan of this plan as long as none of us have to pay for any condition you happen to have.
 
2014-01-01 12:33:43 PM

Farnn: Heliovdrake: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.

The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly.  Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low.  As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers?  Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members. Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premium ...


Actually the ACA allows for age rating, but just not as much as before. The most it can be is a 3X multiple from the low cost young persons rate to old farts rate if I recall correctly.

As to the second highlighted point, you really don't understand how insurance works do you?
 
2014-01-01 12:34:08 PM

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


Typical whiny libulardo. Get bootstrappy, moonbeam.
 
2014-01-01 12:35:12 PM
Be prepared for a new onslaught of: "What do you mean I can't keep my (out of network) doctor?!" stories.
 
2014-01-01 12:35:42 PM
Wow.  I just checked the Washington exchange for the first time, since both my husband and I have full, no premium coverage through work.  I figured that covering both of us and the baby we have on the way would be crazy.

Nope.  Three people, $750 yearly deductible, $0 copay=$580/month.

That's only around twice what it will cost us out of pocket just to add the kid to my husband's plan, and more than what it would cost to add me and the kid if I lost my job.  And that's one of the most expensive plans out there.

Truly, this is the day America dies.
 
2014-01-01 12:36:05 PM

friday13: So you think old people SHOULD be crippled by those costs? 'Cuz I'd rather nobody be crippled, and the evidence - your (most likely) bullshiat numbers notwithstanding - is so far saying that they won't be.


No, that's why they have insurance.  But they should have higher incomes than a 28 year old and should be able to afford higher premiums.  And what numbers am I using?  That the risk factor for prostate cancer is higher for a 65 year old than a 28 year old?  How many 28 year olds do you know with prostate cancer?
 
2014-01-01 12:37:04 PM

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable



Where do you live where a Bronze plan costs $940/mo?  I though you lived in Louisiana, but I sure haven't found plans even half that expensive.
 
2014-01-01 12:38:02 PM

Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

You failed to address the 27 year old becoming the 54 year old.

Nice try tho.

So whatever my health care costs now it stays at the same rate for 27 years?  Sounds pretty sweet I better sign up for the platinum package and ride the gravy train.  Costs go up and as you get older you would move into a different risk pool and premiums go up.  It seemed so obvious I didn't think I needed to explain that.


wow, just wow, you still haven't addressed the 27 year old turning into the 54 year old in any meaningful way.  You gave us a nice straw man that doesn't exist tho, try again plz and this time less dumb.
 
2014-01-01 12:38:28 PM

qorkfiend: Farnn: Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.

Yup. They don't need it, right up until they do.

SauronWasFramed: But have your policies been declared null and void by the government?

Lol.


I was 26 when I had my aortic aneurysm. Because I was in my 20s and indestructible, I didn't have any insurance. Hospital bills for my little "adventure" racked up to a bit over $250,000, thanks to the 26 and a half hours of surgery, the two week stay in the cardiac ICU, and that didn't even count the ambulance rides to Cooley Dick AND to Bay State after Cooley Dick realized that they had no surgeon who could perform the necessary surgery. The continuing bills were covered thanks to some state plans, and that got me and the wife through the three months of recovery time, but even still, we had to declare bankruptcy thanks to my aorta splitting like a bad seal. I'm still trying to get my credit back in order thanks to this bit of fun.

With the coverage that I had down the road, I we would have been fine. The deductible would have been manageable, and the continuing care aspect would have been fine.

With even marginal insurance, the hospital wouldn't have had to eat the cost of little "accident." The state wouldn't have had to waste time and effort to keep my ass covered with emergency programs. I had to get a hard lesson in the necessity of having insurance the old fashioned way.

I am NOT a fan of the ACA overall. Because it is a band aid over the real problems, but it's a step in the right direction. And the Sturm und Drang over it, is essentially a last gasp because insurance companies are realizing that the feeding frenzy is near done, and they are going to have to figure out a new scheme. It is NOT about care, it isn't about coverage, it's about profits, and tiny percentages of profit at that. This isn't about industry wide profits, but rather, the bonus structure, and realizing that one day in the future, their industry is going to fall over, and hedging bets to try to keep it propped up for as long as possible, before having to find new ways to rook folks, the government, and the health care industry in general.

lh4.googleusercontent.com
 
2014-01-01 12:39:08 PM
The end times are upon us. Everybody pray.
 
2014-01-01 12:40:48 PM

Mrbogey: theknuckler_33: Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

"How many has the law helped to get insurance versus losing their insurance."

"Lots"

"Hmm... your keen well cited argument has convinced me. Clearly it is a good law.

Wake me up when more people have insurance than those that lost their insurance. Since it's "mandatory" to have insurance, it shouldn't be too far off, it should seem.


You do realize that many who had their plans canceled due to not meeting the requirements of the ACA were immediately switched to another, compliant plan, right? Suggesting that all the people who 'lost their insurance' are now uninsured is disingenuous, at best. An outright lie at worst.
 
2014-01-01 12:41:45 PM
My wife, daughter and I were able to purchase a silver plan for $515/month with only $2k deductible.

No subsidy, but I wouldn't be embarrassed if I were to qualify for one.

Our old plan pre-obamacare was $550 a month with $2k a piece deductible.  None of us are sick or have pre-existing conditions and we are in our mid 30's so pretty young.

This is just horrible isn't it?

I'm so subsidizing the old and getting screwed,  NOT.
 
2014-01-01 12:41:56 PM

Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.


Sauron is a well known / established troll account.  He's lying.
 
2014-01-01 12:42:39 PM

NewportBarGuy: The end times are upon us. Everybody pray.


Let's pray, especially for Omarion.
 
2014-01-01 12:43:06 PM

TV's Vinnie: Filthy Rich People: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! How will we deplete the herd of poors if they stop getting sick and dying? I like watching poor people die!  How will we keep the poor people serfs and slaves without health insurance?   DAMN YOU OBAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"

 
2014-01-01 12:45:57 PM

JolobinSmokin: My wife, daughter and I were able to purchase a silver plan for $515/month with only $2k deductible.

No subsidy, but I wouldn't be embarrassed if I were to qualify for one.

Our old plan pre-obamacare was $550 a month with $2k a piece deductible.  None of us are sick or have pre-existing conditions and we are in our mid 30's so pretty young.

This is just horrible isn't it?

I'm so subsidizing the old and getting screwed,  NOT.


daughter is 1, so not all of us are in our 30's, lol sorry fark
 
2014-01-01 12:46:40 PM

sdd2000: The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly. Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low. As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers? Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members. Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premium ...

Actually the ACA allows for age rating, but just not as much as before. The most it can be is a 3X multiple from the low cost young persons rate to old farts rate if I recall correctly.

As to the second highlighted point, you really don't understand how insurance works do you?


Yes, I believe the old multiple was 5x and now it's down to 3x which will result in up to a 66% increase in costs for young adults.  And insurance costs aren't calculated by waiting until the end of the year and then billing everyone for the total cost.  It's projected out in the future and there's a reason every insurance company has insurance because even they don't know exactly what their costs will be.
 
2014-01-01 12:47:51 PM
SauronWasFramed:
You can't believe the numbers? You deem me a liar? Sorry, family of three: 52 male 56 and 19 females all non smokers in 39157 zip code. Go to ehealthinsurance.com and check the numbers for yourself. Look it up for yourself and see.

Actually, he's right.  That's pretty terrible.  On the other hand, when I go to Healthcare.gov, I see that if you have an income of under $75,000 a year, you probably qualify for a subsidy which wipes out $900-$1000 a month, meaning you can that ridiculously high deductible plan for free, or get a plan with a $200 deductible for $375/month.

TL;DR Mississippi is terrible.
 
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