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(The New York Times)   It's begun. Millions of Americans are getting insurance and there's nothing anyone can do about it   (nytimes.com) divider line 236
    More: Spiffy  
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2674 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jan 2014 at 11:19 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



236 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-01 10:08:29 AM  
The thousand years of darkness Chuck Norris has warned us about has begun.  Surely poor/sick people having health care will not end well.
 
2014-01-01 10:15:10 AM  
Thanks Obama
 
2014-01-01 10:34:19 AM  
i.imgur.com

==

My GOD.....the horror....the horror
 
2014-01-01 10:37:03 AM  
remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.
 
2014-01-01 10:45:15 AM  
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111oneoneeleventyone1!
 
2014-01-01 10:47:58 AM  
Tantruming child.gif
 
2014-01-01 10:53:37 AM  
So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable
 
2014-01-01 10:56:14 AM  

SauronWasFramed: they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).


It's really unfair to force insurance companies to cover maternity care for men. Their annual costs for such coverage could end up being nearly $0, which will surely bankrupt them.
 
2014-01-01 10:59:43 AM  

SauronWasFramed: //  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


Let me shed a tear for the backfat-snorting, rascal-riding populace.
 
2014-01-01 11:08:42 AM  
This is bad news... For Obama.
 
2014-01-01 11:11:42 AM  

SauronWasFramed: But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).


And if you're a young person it covers arthritis even if you aren't likely to have it for decades, that's how insurance works. My insurance covers cancer treatment even if I don't currently have cancer. My car insurance covers accidents even if I'm not currently in an accident.
 
2014-01-01 11:11:51 AM  
i595.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-01 11:23:39 AM  
Filthy Rich People: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! How will we deplete the herd of poors if they stop getting sick and dying? I like watching poor people die! DAMN YOU OBAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"
 
2014-01-01 11:24:31 AM  

Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 616x457]

==

My GOD.....the horror....the horror


I've been told by countless people on conservative message boards that because that man can get help, it's the same as Obama coming into my house and taking fud away from my cats and children.  Medical care would be totally affordable because all teh gov't intervention has prevented health care from being a truly free market.

Just like we've never had pure communism, pure libertarianism, pure socializum or any other pure thing.
 
2014-01-01 11:24:35 AM  

FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.


You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.
 
2014-01-01 11:25:26 AM  
"With coverage," she said, "I can be my best self. Health insurance won't control my job choices."

Thanks, Obama.
 
2014-01-01 11:26:24 AM  
GOP: But... but once they are born, we try to kill them! You're not helping!
 
2014-01-01 11:26:25 AM  

TV's Vinnie: FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.

You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.


Apparently Sauron was framed.
 
2014-01-01 11:28:55 AM  

19 Kilo: TV's Vinnie: FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.

You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.

Apparently Sauron was framed.


Substitute Soros

/close enough
 
2014-01-01 11:29:16 AM  

19 Kilo: Davros


static2.wikia.nocookie.net

WHOOPS, WRONG THREAD
 
2014-01-01 11:29:48 AM  

19 Kilo: Just like we've never had pure communism, pure libertarianism, pure socializum or any other pure thing.


Of course, paraphrasing certain wishful luminaries, pure communism hasn't actually failed.  We failed  it.

"Wishful luminaries" in the literal sense, as in "I wish someone would set them on fire."
 
2014-01-01 11:30:03 AM  

19 Kilo: TV's Vinnie: FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.

You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.

Apparently Sauron was framed.


He was a big eye on top of a tower. I didn't see any frame.
 
2014-01-01 11:31:01 AM  
Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral. Never allow the facts to be introduced because nothing can be defeated if kept nebulous and theoretical.
 
2014-01-01 11:31:04 AM  
This is the day America died.*baldeaglecrying.jpg*
 
2014-01-01 11:32:15 AM  
The invisible hand of the market will take its revenge.
 
2014-01-01 11:32:47 AM  
A series of last-minute changes in rules and deadlines for people to sign up and pay premiums have left less time for insurers to activate coverage and issue identification cards, adding to the uncertainty caused by the troubled rollout of the health exchange.
"There will be a lot of confusion," said Brian D. Caswell, a former president of the Kansas Pharmacists Association, who owns a drugstore in rural Baxter Springs. "Many people will get insurance cards, but will not have a clue what's covered, what's not covered and what they are supposed to pay."


For goodness sakes, it's not rocket surgery. If the bolded part is true, it is basically because those people are idiots and hasn't a damned thing to do with the ACA.
 
2014-01-01 11:33:12 AM  
But once this is a big success, how many of you will remember to thank your local GOP representative?

/by voting his/her ass out of office?
 
2014-01-01 11:33:38 AM  

SauronWasFramed: they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).


Yeah, that's how insurance works.  That's how it's always worked.  People who don't use the medical service pay for the people who do use it.
 
2014-01-01 11:35:09 AM  
Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.
 
2014-01-01 11:35:51 AM  

itsdan: SauronWasFramed: But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

And if you're a young person it covers arthritis even if you aren't likely to have it for decades, that's how insurance works. My insurance covers cancer treatment even if I don't currently have cancer. My car insurance covers accidents even if I'm not currently in an accident.




But have your policies been declared null and void by the government?
 
2014-01-01 11:36:40 AM  

Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral. Never allow the facts to be introduced because nothing can be defeated if kept nebulous and theoretical.


*facepalm* at least read the article.
 
2014-01-01 11:36:48 AM  

Mrbogey: derp


"Sorry folks. It's the law of the land. Nothing can be done." -- some troll
 
2014-01-01 11:36:57 AM  

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).


I pay collision on my car insurance, and I've never been in a crash.  Thanks, Obama
 
2014-01-01 11:38:06 AM  

Farnn: Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.


Yup. They don't need it, right up until they do.

SauronWasFramed: But have your policies been declared null and void by the government?


Lol.
 
2014-01-01 11:41:07 AM  

TV's Vinnie: FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.

You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.


I haven't been able to break out this overkill of a list in awhile...

Authoritarian Collectivist Dictator-for-life and PresiDebt BaReefer HUSSEIN Fartbama al-Chicago is more evil than the combined evil of Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Vladmir Lenin, Josef Stalin, Josef Mengele, Vlad the Impaler, Emperor Hirohito, Ivan the Terrible, King Leopold II, Idi Amin, the Ayatollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Attila the Hun, Elizabeth Bathory, Irma Grese, Queen Isabella, Timothy McVeigh, James Holmes, Anders Breivik, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, the Zodiac Killer, Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert Fish, Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine, Lord Voldemort, Sauron, Hannibal Lecter, Vito and Michael Corleone, Nurse Ratched, Joffrey Baratheon, Aerys Targaryan, Magneto, Lex Luthor, the Joker, Galactus, Thanos, Davros, the Master, Rassilon, Cthulhu, Beelzebub, and Satan all tetrated to the hyperpower of Graham's number.
 
2014-01-01 11:41:19 AM  
Thankfully, some of us are still unable to partake of the ebil insurance because we live in states that didn't expand medicare/medicaid.  Thanks Kansas GOP for keeping me safe from affordable healthcare!
 
2014-01-01 11:42:21 AM  
"Millions"
 
2014-01-01 11:42:24 AM  
Some consumers will go to doctors, hospitals and drugstores believing they have enrolled in a health plan, only to find that the company has no record of them. That is what happened in January 2006 when a prescription drug benefit was added to Medicare.

And, as we all know, that failure literally destroyed America.
 
2014-01-01 11:44:05 AM  

SauronWasFramed: But have your policies been declared null and void by the government?


queerlandia.files.wordpress.com

"Yep!"
 
2014-01-01 11:44:06 AM  

FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.


They will excuse the ridiculous rhetoric on the grounds that they were passionate about it.

Next tactic is obviously to trot out as many 'victims' as they can, but that will get boring fast.

The interesting thing will be whether Fox news holds their feet to the fire and asks the GOP

1) are you going to take away people's newly acquired insurance?

2) if not, how will you change it (in a way that satisfies TP) ?
 
2014-01-01 11:47:40 AM  

theknuckler_33: "Many people will get insurance cards, but will not have a clue what's covered, what's not covered and what they are supposed to pay."

For goodness sakes, it's not rocket surgery. If the bolded part is true, it is basically because those people are idiots and hasn't a damned thing to do with the ACA.


My wife's last policy had a card and I knew very well how much it cost, but had no idea if it would cover anything. Her new policy can't deny her coverage because of her past medical conditions (fibromyalgia), so I'd say that's a definite improvement.
 
2014-01-01 11:47:42 AM  

Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
 
2014-01-01 11:48:49 AM  

Serious Black: TV's Vinnie: FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.

You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.

I haven't been able to break out this overkill of a list in awhile...

Authoritarian Collectivist Dictator-for-life and PresiDebt BaReefer HUSSEIN Fartbama al-Chicago is more evil than the combined evil of Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Vladmir Lenin, Josef Stalin, Josef Mengele, Vlad the Impaler, Emperor Hirohito, Ivan the Terrible, King Leopold II, Idi Amin, the Ayatollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Attila the Hun, Elizabeth Bathory, Irma Grese, Queen Isabella, Timothy McVeigh, James Holmes, Anders Breivik, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, the Zodiac Killer, Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert Fish, Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine, Lord Voldemort, Sauron, Hannibal Lecter, Vito and Michael Corleone, Nurse Ratched, Joffrey Baratheon, Aerys Targaryan, Magneto, Lex Luthor, the Joker, Galactus, Thanos, Davros, the Master, Rassilon, Cthulhu, Beelzebub, and Satan all tetrated to the hyperpower of Graham's number.


Where are the Kingpin, Doctor Doom, Arioch and Torak?
 
2014-01-01 11:51:18 AM  
For many admirers of Jesus, it remains His responsibility to minister to the sick and the poor. So there.
 
2014-01-01 11:52:35 AM  

mjjt: The interesting thing will be whether Fox news holds their feet to the fire


The answer is they won't.
 
2014-01-01 11:52:43 AM  

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.
 
2014-01-01 11:53:36 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral. Never allow the facts to be introduced because nothing can be defeated if kept nebulous and theoretical.

*facepalm* at least read the article.


I did. That's why I'm mocking the retards who support the law. The key thing is the hard numbers of people who actually are covered who previously had no insurance isn't stated.

It's rhetorical car keys being jingled in the face of people with the intellectual faculties of a child. It offers nothing more than smug entertainment for people who have completely failed but are too stupid to realize it. The naive. The ignorant. The dumb. All working together to derp us a better future made of potato.
 
2014-01-01 11:55:22 AM  
Is it the people who lost their previous insurance because of the new law signing up for new insurance or is it really those 15,29,40 million people who did not have it in the first place? (I don't think anyone really new how many uninsured there were  but I heard those numbers during the passing of the bill)
 
2014-01-01 11:57:04 AM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed:

/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.


Nope, you're correct. He's either lying or has enough health problems that it's probably just time to head out to pasture and check out the rabbits.

My bronze is $165/mo with a $5,000 deductible.
 
2014-01-01 11:59:02 AM  

Granny_Panties: 19 Kilo: TV's Vinnie: FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.

You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.

Apparently Sauron was framed.

He was a big eye on top of a tower. I didn't see any frame.


Are you sure you didn't just miss it?
static.fjcdn.com
 
2014-01-01 11:59:55 AM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.


This one time I had insurance and it was really great and then Obamacare made me get gay married to a turtle in a FEMA camp by a Death Star Panel.  True story.
 
2014-01-01 12:00:30 PM  

2.bp.blogspot.com


Health insurance = gas chambers.  WHAR is BIRF CERTIFICT for MUslin Kenyan?

 
2014-01-01 12:01:49 PM  
My husband and I are thinking of switching to a plan we found on ACA's website. Right now we have insurance through his employer, our portion to cover both of us is 500$ a month, but the deductibles are insanely high. Plus its Kaiser so if we get sick when traveling outside of the state we are screwed.

On the ACA website we found a gold level blue cross and blue shield plan that would cost us 450$ a month, with no deductibles. We are holding off on signing up until my husband meets with his HR head next week to show him the plan he found. We don't want to pull out of our group plan and screw anybody over, but when my husband told HR about this plan they asked him to come with all the details since they may want to call blue cross and blue shield and move the whole company over.
 
2014-01-01 12:02:36 PM  
This just in. People required by law to purchase insurance are now purchasing insurance.

btw, I just found that everyone has to carry pediatric dental insurance even if they don't have kids or the kids are 20 years old. It is the stupid things in the ACA like this that are the problems.
 
2014-01-01 12:02:46 PM  

theknuckler_33: Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question


"How many has the law helped to get insurance versus losing their insurance."

"Lots"

"Hmm... your keen well cited argument has convinced me. Clearly it is a good law.

Wake me up when more people have insurance than those that lost their insurance. Since it's "mandatory" to have insurance, it shouldn't be too far off, it should seem.
 
2014-01-01 12:02:52 PM  
Mrbogey

Living up to his name, trying to spready irrational fear.

Mrbogey, for when you absolutely positively  have to shiat the thread.
 
2014-01-01 12:03:48 PM  

praymantis: Is it the people who lost their previous insurance because of the new law signing up for new insurance or is it really those 15,29,40 million people who did not have it in the first place? (I don't think anyone really new how many uninsured there were  but I heard those numbers during the passing of the bill)


I can only use my personal anecdote, my insurance is getting cancelled, but not until November 30th of this year 2014.  I wonder how many of those losing insurance numbers have included those who haven't actually lost it yet.

/looked at the exchanges this year but decided to stick with what I have
//will be happy to use it next year if I don't have employer insurance then
 
2014-01-01 12:05:30 PM  

Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.


Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.
 
2014-01-01 12:06:15 PM  

Whodat: This just in. People required by law to purchase insurance are now purchasing insurance.

btw, I just found that everyone has to carry pediatric dental insurance even if they don't have kids or the kids are 20 years old. It is the stupid things in the ACA like this that are the problems.


Yep, lots of dumb crap got stuffed into the bill and the insurance companies are raking in the money.  And in general dental insurance is terrible, it doesn't cover that much and has a pretty low maximum payout.
 
2014-01-01 12:06:45 PM  

ELKAY: My husband and I are thinking of switching to a plan we found on ACA's website. Right now we have insurance through his employer, our portion to cover both of us is 500$ a month, but the deductibles are insanely high. Plus its Kaiser so if we get sick when traveling outside of the state we are screwed.

On the ACA website we found a gold level blue cross and blue shield plan that would cost us 450$ a month, with no deductibles. We are holding off on signing up until my husband meets with his HR head next week to show him the plan he found. We don't want to pull out of our group plan and screw anybody over, but when my husband told HR about this plan they asked him to come with all the details since they may want to call blue cross and blue shield and move the whole company over.


no no noNoNoNoNO!!!!

NONONONONO!

you are part of the problem spreading obongofartcare!

THEY WILL DEATH PANEL YOUR ENTIRE COMPANY!!!
 
2014-01-01 12:09:09 PM  

SauronWasFramed: itsdan: SauronWasFramed: But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

And if you're a young person it covers arthritis even if you aren't likely to have it for decades, that's how insurance works. My insurance covers cancer treatment even if I don't currently have cancer. My car insurance covers accidents even if I'm not currently in an accident.

But have your policies been declared null and void by the government?


No.  The goverment said the policies didn't meet standards.  It was up to the insurance companies to either bring the policies up to spec or not offer them anymore.  The government didn't cancel the policies.
 
2014-01-01 12:09:14 PM  
I imagine that right now in the Fox News offices, there's a bounty for the first person who comes up with the first big occurrence of an Obamacare failure (not that the same failure wouldn't have happened pre-ACA) so they can broadcast the important story to all of us - of course omitting several key mitigating aspects.  Something like this bounty schedule:

Insured person denied coverage for routine procedure - $1000
Insured person has to wait more than 4 hours - $500
Insured person gets wrong treatment - $2000
Insured person dies - $5000
Insured pregnant woman loses baby - $20000
Insured young white pregnant mother and baby die, with footage of distraught young, white, Iraq-veteran father, the surviving toddler son, and her evangelical parents bravely, yet tearfully, putting their lives back together with soulful piano background music and closing with soft-focus closeup of a teddy bear - $100000
 
2014-01-01 12:10:04 PM  

JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.


So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.
 
2014-01-01 12:13:01 PM  

Whodat: This just in. People required by law to purchase insurance are now purchasing insurance.

btw, I just found that everyone has to carry pediatric dental insurance even if they don't have kids or the kids are 20 years old. It is the stupid things in the ACA like this that are the problems.


You do understand how insurance works, don't you?
 
2014-01-01 12:13:05 PM  

Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.


It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.
 
2014-01-01 12:13:43 PM  

ELKAY: My husband and I are thinking of switching to a plan we found on ACA's website. Right now we have insurance through his employer, our portion to cover both of us is 500$ a month, but the deductibles are insanely high. Plus its Kaiser so if we get sick when traveling outside of the state we are screwed.

On the ACA website we found a gold level blue cross and blue shield plan that would cost us 450$ a month, with no deductibles. We are holding off on signing up until my husband meets with his HR head next week to show him the plan he found. We don't want to pull out of our group plan and screw anybody over, but when my husband told HR about this plan they asked him to come with all the details since they may want to call blue cross and blue shield and move the whole company over.


And if HR moves the whole company to BCBS, that's a whole company technically losing its insurance because of Obamacare (no comment about replacing it with a better plan).  They lost their insurance!!!!!!
 
2014-01-01 12:15:31 PM  

Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.


You failed to address the 27 year old becoming the 54 year old.

Nice try tho.
 
2014-01-01 12:16:41 PM  

Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible. Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.


Hi there, I just turned 29.  Thank you for picking out what healthcare coverage I need and don't need!   I'll tell my girlfriend/future wife, "Honey, sorry about that Maternity coverage, we just need catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  No more kids for us."   And her autistic 10 year old son who would become my step-son and come onto my insurance policy?  I'll have to find some way to relate to him that he cant have his occupational therapies which have enabled him to do things like, talk, stop peeing the bed, relate what he's saying in a coherent manner, etc, because we just have catastrophic coverage.

Again, thank YOU for picking out what healthcare insurance I needed!   I'z jus' a dum bastahd and dunz knowz whatsis any gud fer myself!  


You smug f*cking prick, go eat a bullet and rid this country of the problem.
 
2014-01-01 12:18:12 PM  
butthurteverywhere.jpg
 
2014-01-01 12:18:26 PM  

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


Counting those who now get Medicare because of the ACA it is 6 MILLION!
 
2014-01-01 12:21:22 PM  
How does health insurance work?  It seems we have a few who need an explanation.  Here is a link which will explain to you how deductibles, co-insurance, out of pocket limits and co-payments work.  It only takes a few minutes to give you an elementary understanding.  Next up we'll cover risk pools and what it means to you.

http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/ehealthinsurance/individual/Intro.ht ml
 
2014-01-01 12:22:13 PM  
My parents are saving over $900 a month to cover BOTH of them (my father was previously uninsured) on the silver level, compared to paying for the previous extremely shiatty plan my mother had for just herself. She is healthy and 61. He is 62 and has extreme back problems and cataracts that he will finally be able to get removed. It's amazing, this has been SUCH a blessing for him,and thus our whole family.
 
2014-01-01 12:22:27 PM  

Heliovdrake: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.


The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly.  Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low.   As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers?  Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members.   Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premiums that they don't need.
 
2014-01-01 12:25:25 PM  

ace in your face: My parents are saving over $900 a month to cover BOTH of them (my father was previously uninsured) on the silver level, compared to paying for the previous extremely shiatty plan my mother had for just herself. She is healthy and 61. He is 62 and has extreme back problems and cataracts that he will finally be able to get removed. It's amazing, this has been SUCH a blessing for him,and thus our whole family.


no no noNO!NO!NO!

THIS IS THE PROBLEM! IF OLD PEOPLE USE UP ALL THE HEATHCARE THERE WILL BE NO DOCTORS FOR JOB CREATORS LEFT!!!!

DEATH PANELS!
 
2014-01-01 12:26:02 PM  
<p><strong><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/8082381/88466649#c88466649">VTGreml in</a>:</strong> <em>Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed:<br /><br />/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?<br /><br />//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable<br /><br />That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.<br /><br />Nope, you're correct. He's either lying or has enough health problems that it's probably just time to head out to pasture and check out the rabbits.<br /><br />My bronze is $165/mo with a $5,000 deductible.</em><br /><br /> </p>

You can't believe the numbers? You deem me a liar? Sorry, family of three: 52 male 56 and 19 females all non smokers in 39157 zip code. Go to ehealthinsurance.com and check the numbers for yourself. Look it up for yourself and see.

Bottom line: the law is so broken, it has had to have numerous extensions and exemptions. It is so broken, Mary Landrieu, the deciding democrat vote, says it needs to be amended....because her reelection hopes are pinned on you being able to keep your plan because you like it
 
2014-01-01 12:26:11 PM  

ace in your face: My parents are saving over $900 a month to cover BOTH of them (my father was previously uninsured) on the silver level, compared to paying for the previous extremely shiatty plan my mother had for just herself. She is healthy and 61. He is 62 and has extreme back problems and cataracts that he will finally be able to get removed. It's amazing, this has been SUCH a blessing for him,and thus our whole family.


I think you meant to say that it's the worse thing since Hitler.
 
2014-01-01 12:26:15 PM  

Farnn: Heliovdrake: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.

The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly.  Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low.   As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers?  Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members.   Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premium ...


You could also narrow the risk pool down even further by eliminating insurance. Everybody is on their own. A risk pool of one. Just look at all the money you'll save if you are never sick or injured.
 
2014-01-01 12:27:12 PM  

JolobinSmokin: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

You failed to address the 27 year old becoming the 54 year old.

Nice try tho.


So whatever my health care costs now it stays at the same rate for 27 years?  Sounds pretty sweet I better sign up for the platinum package and ride the gravy train.  Costs go up and as you get older you would move into a different risk pool and premiums go up.  It seemed so obvious I didn't think I needed to explain that.
 
2014-01-01 12:29:04 PM  

Corvus: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

Counting those who now get Medicare because of the ACA it is 6 MILLION!


Did you mean to type Medicaid rather than Medicare? The ACA did not change the number of people on Medicare that I know of.
 
2014-01-01 12:29:39 PM  

Third Day Mark: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible. Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Hi there, I just turned 29.  Thank you for picking out what healthcare coverage I need and don't need!   I'll tell my girlfriend/future wife, "Honey, sorry about that Maternity coverage, we just need catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  No more kids for us."   And her autistic 10 year old son who would become my step-son and come onto my insurance policy?  I'll have to find some way to relate to him that he cant have his occupational therapies which have enabled him to do things like, talk, stop peeing the bed, relate what he's saying in a coherent manner, etc, because we just have catastrophic coverage.

Again, thank YOU for picking out what healthcare insurance I needed!   I'z jus' a dum bastahd and dunz knowz whatsis any gud fer myself!  


You smug f*cking prick, go eat a bullet and rid this country of the problem.


I wasn't telling you what care you need and don't need, that's what the ACA is telling you.  You should have a choice of a bare bones plan or more comprehensive coverage depending on what is best for you.  And it's very noble of you to adopt your girlfriends 10 year old autistic son, many people would run away from something like that.
 
2014-01-01 12:31:07 PM  

Farnn: Heliovdrake: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.

The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly.  Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low.   As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers?  Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members.   Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premium ...


So you think old people SHOULD be crippled by those costs?  'Cuz I'd rather nobody be crippled, and the evidence - your (most likely) bullshiat numbers notwithstanding - is so far saying that they won't be.
 
2014-01-01 12:31:21 PM  

thamike: 19 Kilo: Davros

[static2.wikia.nocookie.net image 427x610]

WHOOPS, WRONG THREAD



I laughed.
 
2014-01-01 12:33:24 PM  

Farnn: The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly. Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low. As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers? Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members. Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premiums that they don't need.


I'm a big fan of this plan as long as none of us have to pay for any condition you happen to have.
 
2014-01-01 12:33:43 PM  

Farnn: Heliovdrake: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

It's really like you have no idea how insurance and risk pools work.

The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly.  Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low.  As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers?  Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members. Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premium ...


Actually the ACA allows for age rating, but just not as much as before. The most it can be is a 3X multiple from the low cost young persons rate to old farts rate if I recall correctly.

As to the second highlighted point, you really don't understand how insurance works do you?
 
2014-01-01 12:34:08 PM  

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


Typical whiny libulardo. Get bootstrappy, moonbeam.
 
2014-01-01 12:35:12 PM  
Be prepared for a new onslaught of: "What do you mean I can't keep my (out of network) doctor?!" stories.
 
2014-01-01 12:35:42 PM  
Wow.  I just checked the Washington exchange for the first time, since both my husband and I have full, no premium coverage through work.  I figured that covering both of us and the baby we have on the way would be crazy.

Nope.  Three people, $750 yearly deductible, $0 copay=$580/month.

That's only around twice what it will cost us out of pocket just to add the kid to my husband's plan, and more than what it would cost to add me and the kid if I lost my job.  And that's one of the most expensive plans out there.

Truly, this is the day America dies.
 
2014-01-01 12:36:05 PM  

friday13: So you think old people SHOULD be crippled by those costs? 'Cuz I'd rather nobody be crippled, and the evidence - your (most likely) bullshiat numbers notwithstanding - is so far saying that they won't be.


No, that's why they have insurance.  But they should have higher incomes than a 28 year old and should be able to afford higher premiums.  And what numbers am I using?  That the risk factor for prostate cancer is higher for a 65 year old than a 28 year old?  How many 28 year olds do you know with prostate cancer?
 
2014-01-01 12:37:04 PM  

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable



Where do you live where a Bronze plan costs $940/mo?  I though you lived in Louisiana, but I sure haven't found plans even half that expensive.
 
2014-01-01 12:38:02 PM  

Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

You failed to address the 27 year old becoming the 54 year old.

Nice try tho.

So whatever my health care costs now it stays at the same rate for 27 years?  Sounds pretty sweet I better sign up for the platinum package and ride the gravy train.  Costs go up and as you get older you would move into a different risk pool and premiums go up.  It seemed so obvious I didn't think I needed to explain that.


wow, just wow, you still haven't addressed the 27 year old turning into the 54 year old in any meaningful way.  You gave us a nice straw man that doesn't exist tho, try again plz and this time less dumb.
 
2014-01-01 12:38:28 PM  

qorkfiend: Farnn: Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.

Yup. They don't need it, right up until they do.

SauronWasFramed: But have your policies been declared null and void by the government?

Lol.


I was 26 when I had my aortic aneurysm. Because I was in my 20s and indestructible, I didn't have any insurance. Hospital bills for my little "adventure" racked up to a bit over $250,000, thanks to the 26 and a half hours of surgery, the two week stay in the cardiac ICU, and that didn't even count the ambulance rides to Cooley Dick AND to Bay State after Cooley Dick realized that they had no surgeon who could perform the necessary surgery. The continuing bills were covered thanks to some state plans, and that got me and the wife through the three months of recovery time, but even still, we had to declare bankruptcy thanks to my aorta splitting like a bad seal. I'm still trying to get my credit back in order thanks to this bit of fun.

With the coverage that I had down the road, I we would have been fine. The deductible would have been manageable, and the continuing care aspect would have been fine.

With even marginal insurance, the hospital wouldn't have had to eat the cost of little "accident." The state wouldn't have had to waste time and effort to keep my ass covered with emergency programs. I had to get a hard lesson in the necessity of having insurance the old fashioned way.

I am NOT a fan of the ACA overall. Because it is a band aid over the real problems, but it's a step in the right direction. And the Sturm und Drang over it, is essentially a last gasp because insurance companies are realizing that the feeding frenzy is near done, and they are going to have to figure out a new scheme. It is NOT about care, it isn't about coverage, it's about profits, and tiny percentages of profit at that. This isn't about industry wide profits, but rather, the bonus structure, and realizing that one day in the future, their industry is going to fall over, and hedging bets to try to keep it propped up for as long as possible, before having to find new ways to rook folks, the government, and the health care industry in general.

lh4.googleusercontent.com
 
2014-01-01 12:39:08 PM  
The end times are upon us. Everybody pray.
 
2014-01-01 12:40:48 PM  

Mrbogey: theknuckler_33: Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

"How many has the law helped to get insurance versus losing their insurance."

"Lots"

"Hmm... your keen well cited argument has convinced me. Clearly it is a good law.

Wake me up when more people have insurance than those that lost their insurance. Since it's "mandatory" to have insurance, it shouldn't be too far off, it should seem.


You do realize that many who had their plans canceled due to not meeting the requirements of the ACA were immediately switched to another, compliant plan, right? Suggesting that all the people who 'lost their insurance' are now uninsured is disingenuous, at best. An outright lie at worst.
 
2014-01-01 12:41:45 PM  
My wife, daughter and I were able to purchase a silver plan for $515/month with only $2k deductible.

No subsidy, but I wouldn't be embarrassed if I were to qualify for one.

Our old plan pre-obamacare was $550 a month with $2k a piece deductible.  None of us are sick or have pre-existing conditions and we are in our mid 30's so pretty young.

This is just horrible isn't it?

I'm so subsidizing the old and getting screwed,  NOT.
 
2014-01-01 12:41:56 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.


Sauron is a well known / established troll account.  He's lying.
 
2014-01-01 12:42:39 PM  

NewportBarGuy: The end times are upon us. Everybody pray.


Let's pray, especially for Omarion.
 
2014-01-01 12:43:06 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Filthy Rich People: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! How will we deplete the herd of poors if they stop getting sick and dying? I like watching poor people die!  How will we keep the poor people serfs and slaves without health insurance?   DAMN YOU OBAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"

 
2014-01-01 12:45:57 PM  

JolobinSmokin: My wife, daughter and I were able to purchase a silver plan for $515/month with only $2k deductible.

No subsidy, but I wouldn't be embarrassed if I were to qualify for one.

Our old plan pre-obamacare was $550 a month with $2k a piece deductible.  None of us are sick or have pre-existing conditions and we are in our mid 30's so pretty young.

This is just horrible isn't it?

I'm so subsidizing the old and getting screwed,  NOT.


daughter is 1, so not all of us are in our 30's, lol sorry fark
 
2014-01-01 12:46:40 PM  

sdd2000: The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly. Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low. As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers? Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members. Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premium ...

Actually the ACA allows for age rating, but just not as much as before. The most it can be is a 3X multiple from the low cost young persons rate to old farts rate if I recall correctly.

As to the second highlighted point, you really don't understand how insurance works do you?


Yes, I believe the old multiple was 5x and now it's down to 3x which will result in up to a 66% increase in costs for young adults.  And insurance costs aren't calculated by waiting until the end of the year and then billing everyone for the total cost.  It's projected out in the future and there's a reason every insurance company has insurance because even they don't know exactly what their costs will be.
 
2014-01-01 12:47:51 PM  
SauronWasFramed:
You can't believe the numbers? You deem me a liar? Sorry, family of three: 52 male 56 and 19 females all non smokers in 39157 zip code. Go to ehealthinsurance.com and check the numbers for yourself. Look it up for yourself and see.

Actually, he's right.  That's pretty terrible.  On the other hand, when I go to Healthcare.gov, I see that if you have an income of under $75,000 a year, you probably qualify for a subsidy which wipes out $900-$1000 a month, meaning you can that ridiculously high deductible plan for free, or get a plan with a $200 deductible for $375/month.

TL;DR Mississippi is terrible.
 
2014-01-01 12:49:21 PM  
SauronWasFramed:
//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

I don't believe you.
ronburgandy.gif
 
2014-01-01 12:50:04 PM  

SauronWasFramed: You can't believe the numbers? You deem me a liar? Sorry, family of three: 52 male 56 and 19 females all non smokers in 39157 zip code. Go to ehealthinsurance.com and check the numbers for yourself. Look it up for yourself and see.

Bottom line: the law is so broken, it has had to have numerous extensions and exemptions. It is so broken, Mary Landrieu, the deciding democrat vote, says it needs to be amended....because her reelection hopes are pinned on you being able to keep your plan because you like it


Did you even bother to check for subsidies? cuz when I give you a $75K income (no idea how accurate that is), you get a subsidy of almost a grand, dropping your numbers down to A farkING DOLLAR after the deductible on that bronze plan, with the PLATINUM plan being $381, $2000 deductible, $20 co-pay.  Unless you're making $100,000 a year, which I doubt for some reason, you're either a liar or an idiot.  Either way I'd suggest you move, because Humana sucks ass.
 
2014-01-01 12:52:05 PM  

VTGremlin: Nope, you're correct. He's either lying or has enough health problems that it's probably just time to head out to pasture and check out the rabbits.


You've overlooked a third possibility. He may be living in a Republican led state where the State gov has been actively attempting to sabotage the ACA. If that's the case, his numbers are probably accurate.
 
2014-01-01 12:52:09 PM  

dopirt: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


Where do you live where a Bronze plan costs $940/mo?  I though you lived in Louisiana, but I sure haven't found plans even half that expensive.


Um, the very link he put up and information he gave us gave me $694/month with a $12,000 deductible, or $898/month with a $5,000 deductible gold plan.

SauronWasFramed:

Look up Humana Local Preferred Bronze, or Gold if you want the lower deductible. Local Preferred Silver will cost $787/month, but it has $25 doctors' visits and a $9,200 deductible. Not great, but not quite as dire as what you're getting from Humana National Preferred Bronze. Did you do much shopping for this?
 
2014-01-01 12:53:10 PM  

Chameleon: Actually, he's right.  That's pretty terrible.  On the other hand, when I go to Healthcare.gov, I see that if you have an income of under $75,000 a year, you probably qualify for a subsidy which wipes out $900-$1000 a month, meaning you can that ridiculously high deductible plan for free, or get a plan with a $200 deductible for $375/month.


Man, I didn't even factor if he was eligible for a subsidy. My numbers were just what were available as flat rates.
 
2014-01-01 12:54:23 PM  

Farnn: sdd2000: The risk pool doesn't need to be the entire population, you can create risk pools of those who are actually at risk of suffering from those conditions and alter prices accordingly. Young people should have very low insurance costs because their risks are low. As a 28 year old, should my prostate cancer coverage cost be the same as my 65 year old fathers? Insurance rates should be based on the cost of treatment and the likelihood you will need treatment, not the total cost of the treatment across the entire insured population divided by the number of members. Sorry if I think young adults shouldn't be crippled by high insurance premium ...

Actually the ACA allows for age rating, but just not as much as before. The most it can be is a 3X multiple from the low cost young persons rate to old farts rate if I recall correctly.

As to the second highlighted point, you really don't understand how insurance works do you?

Yes, I believe the old multiple was 5x and now it's down to 3x which will result in up to a 66% increase in costs for young adults.  And insurance costs aren't calculated by waiting until the end of the year and then billing everyone for the total cost.  It's projected out in the future and there's a reason every insurance company has insurance because even they don't know exactly what their costs will be.


Not in Texas, the multiple was whatever I think the insurance companies wanted to make the multiple (i.e. no cap). Although this results in using your math a 66% increase for young it represents a significant decrease for those older than the "young adults". This significant decrease being removed does not match the slightly higher income one makes as one progresses through their working career.

 You have also conveniently ignored that those under 30 (if they are foolish enough) can get "catastrophic" policies.
 
2014-01-01 12:55:00 PM  

friday13: Did you even bother to check for subsidies? cuz when I give you a $75K income (no idea how accurate that is), you get a subsidy of almost a grand, dropping your numbers down to A farkING DOLLAR after the deductible on that bronze plan, with the PLATINUM plan being $381, $2000 deductible, $20 co-pay. Unless you're making $100,000 a year, which I doubt for some reason, you're either a liar or an idiot. Either way I'd suggest you move, because Humana sucks ass.


He's both a liar and an idiot.
 
2014-01-01 12:55:08 PM  
I want you all to remember that nothing you say here will mean anything. That's why I always recommend ridicule and humor over reason.
 
2014-01-01 12:58:01 PM  

Bloody William: Um, the very link he put up and information he gave us gave me $694/month with a $12,000 deductible, or $898/month with a $5,000 deductible gold plan.


Yeah, my bad, he hadn't posted that yet when I started shopping for insurance in Louisiana, and naturally I didn't check for updates upon my return.
 
2014-01-01 12:59:22 PM  

Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 616x457]

==

My GOD.....the horror....the horror


Hopefully he can get that hand tumor looked at as well.
 
2014-01-01 01:00:03 PM  
I have to say, "... and there's nothing anyone can do about it" is spot-on.  When I talk with these people IRL they sound like they're on the brink of tears.  Because poor people. Will. Get. Health. Care.

A relative told me that I was one of the "losers" with the ACA, as I'm going to be subsidizing poor peoples' health care.  "Yeah, that's the idea, and I count it as a win."

Seeing the red states screw their own because REASONS gives me equal measures of schadenfreude and horror.
 
2014-01-01 01:00:38 PM  

Farnn: No, that's why they have insurance.  But they should have higher incomes than a 28 year old and should be able to afford higher premiums.  And what numbers am I using?  That the risk factor for prostate cancer is higher for a 65 year old than a 28 year old?  How many 28 year olds do you know with prostate cancer?


First off, you really think that old, retired people have high incomes?  What the actual fark?  You, sir, are WOEFULLY ignorant.  Not everyone is lucky enough to even retire, much less retire with a comfortable nest egg...

Second, I was referring to your premium being nearly a grand, which was admittedly true, but I doubt you actually looked at whether or not you could even GET subsidies.
 
2014-01-01 01:00:39 PM  

Bloody William: Chameleon: Actually, he's right.  That's pretty terrible.  On the other hand, when I go to Healthcare.gov, I see that if you have an income of under $75,000 a year, you probably qualify for a subsidy which wipes out $900-$1000 a month, meaning you can that ridiculously high deductible plan for free, or get a plan with a $200 deductible for $375/month.

Man, I didn't even factor if he was eligible for a subsidy. My numbers were just what were available as flat rates.


I will admit that I didn't realize that the subsidy income level was such a hard cutoff, though.  It looks like for a family of three, the maximum rate for a silver is $619 if you make under $78,000 a year, but that cap is totally gone if you make $79,000 and you get pretty screwed.  I understand that there should be a limit to the subsidies, but it seems like that should be more gently graduated.

(numbers from here)
 
2014-01-01 01:01:03 PM  

Bareefer Obonghit: I want you all to remember that nothing you say here will mean anything. That's why I always recommend ridicule and humor over reason.


Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries
 
2014-01-01 01:02:50 PM  

SauronWasFramed: Bottom line: the law is so broken, it has had to have numerous extensions and exemptions. It is so broken, Mary Landrieu, the deciding democrat vote, says it needs to be amended....because her reelection hopes are pinned on you being able to keep your plan because you like it


It's broken because it wasn't 100% perfect and has to be amended? So on that basis the Constitution was a total failure.
 
2014-01-01 01:03:08 PM  

Bloody William: dopirt: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


Where do you live where a Bronze plan costs $940/mo?  I though you lived in Louisiana, but I sure haven't found plans even half that expensive.

Um, the very link he put up and information he gave us gave me $694/month with a $12,000 deductible, or $898/month with a $5,000 deductible gold plan.

SauronWasFramed:

Look up Humana Local Preferred Bronze, or Gold if you want the lower deductible. Local Preferred Silver will cost $787/month, but it has $25 doctors' visits and a $9,200 deductible. Not great, but not quite as dire as what you're getting from Humana National Preferred Bronze. Did you do much shopping for this?


Of course not. He hated the law before and spent all of 5 minutes logging in a checking one thing. As other posters have pointed out, if he made 75k or less (75k is pretty farking good for Mississippi), his payments would be about 1,000 dollars less per month. Just like all those other people that popped up on tv showed complaining about their prices. Once their stories were vetted it turns out they were either ignorant or lying. Some people are going to have to pay more (for real insurance), but these ridiculous claims are exactly that....ridiculous.
 
2014-01-01 01:04:37 PM  

Farnn: Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy,


Remember, you CHOSE to take out loans to pay for a degree that did not improve your employment opportunities. Nut up Buttercup.
 
2014-01-01 01:06:51 PM  

Bareefer Obonghit: I want you all to remember that nothing you say here will mean anything. That's why I always recommend ridicule and humor over reason.


I started to click the "Funny" button for this, but then I pondered your point for a moment, and moved my cursor 3/4-inch and chose the "Smart" button instead.
 
2014-01-01 01:06:53 PM  
For people who like to throw around the 5 million number: you do know that is for plans canceled and not coverage lost, right?
 
2014-01-01 01:06:55 PM  
So Fartbongo's rape begins. Mr Fart please pull your big juicy hog from the torn tender anus of Muricans, we cannot handle that much meat. We need a tender slender buggerin, the GOP way. Their flaccid tiny penis slappin' our face is preferred to yer giant humper. Then shove it down our throat. But none of this is sexual or innuendo, you dirty minded perverts. We GOPers just like to use facerape metaphors that are not facerape metaphors.


teabaggingforJesus.jpg
 
2014-01-01 01:08:44 PM  

More_Like_A_Stain: Farnn: Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy,

Remember, you CHOSE to take out loans to pay for a degree that did not improve your employment opportunities. Nut up Buttercup.


Yeah, that's exactly what happened to millions of students. They allllll went into vague, foofy fields because they wanted to become 17th century paleo-philosophers of southwest Europe and not because job markets change, the economy hasn't been great, the market crashed five years ago, and education prices have skyrocketed even higher than health insurance prices before the ACA.

No, it's all their fault, because the easiest answer to "why do bad things happen to good people?" is that those people must be bad in some way, and not because the world is full of unfair situations beyond anyone's control and that success almost always comes with a measure of luck as well as skill, and sometimes not even skill. No, it's the hordes of shortsighted young people getting degrees they know they can't turn into jobs. You gormless wank.
 
2014-01-01 01:11:43 PM  

Bloody William: More_Like_A_Stain: Farnn: Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy,

Remember, you CHOSE to take out loans to pay for a degree that did not improve your employment opportunities. Nut up Buttercup.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened to millions of students. They allllll went into vague, foofy fields because they wanted to become 17th century paleo-philosophers of southwest Europe and not because job markets change, the economy hasn't been great, the market crashed five years ago, and education prices have skyrocketed even higher than health insurance prices before the ACA.

No, it's all their fault, because the easiest answer to "why do bad things happen to good people?" is that those people must be bad in some way, and not because the world is full of unfair situations beyond anyone's control and that success almost always comes with a measure of luck as well as skill, and sometimes not even skill. No, it's the hordes of shortsighted young people getting degrees they know they can't turn into jobs. You gormless wank.


You know if the bad luck of the economy and other bad luck continues, then those poor people might catch some other bad luck, like getting real sick or getting in an accident. I hope they actually bought health insurance rather than listen to the Koch brothers group who told them to opt out and just pay the fine.
 
2014-01-01 01:12:20 PM  
Failing the kind of existential disaster the Republicans predict (entirely possible if Obama and the Democrats are hit with a stupidity ray from outer space or there is some other rift in the space/time continuum) the ACA is on track to being the most important, beneficial, and, ultimately, popular pieces of legislation in the past 50 years. In other words, it's going to be an unprecedented political and PR disaster for the Republicans. I have to say, this seems like a situation that could have been easily avoided. At any time since the 1980′s, during their twenty years in the White House, the Republicans could have instituted something similar to the ACA, and yet they consistently chose not to. Not only that, but whenever the Democrats proposed something along these lines the Republicans fought it tooth and nail, right up to, as we've seen, shutting down the government rather than acceding to the will of the people.

I've been thinking about this and I think it reflects an essential difference in how the Democrats and the Republicans operate. Democrats offer benefits to people in hopes that they will be persuaded to vote Democratic (I suppose that might be considered bribery, although how the Democratic bribery of offering people affordable health insurance differs from the Republican bribery of offering them lower taxes escapes me). Republicans, on the other hand, offer benefits  after the factto reward loyalty. You must first prove yourself worthy, by consistently voting Republican, before they will deign to provide you with a desirable benefit. This is, for instance, the logic behind Bush's Medicare expansion. Old people have a track record of voting Republican-reward them! Conversely, failure to vote Republican means you deserve to be, in fact you  must be punished. The real reason the Republicans have opposed health care reform is because the primary beneficiaries of such reform, the poor, tend not to vote Republican. Some people will say this is the Democratic attitude towards the rich-"They don't vote Democratic! Raise their taxes!"-but I assure you, the Democrats would raise taxes on the wealthy whether or not they tended to vote Democratic. It's nothing personal. That is not the case with the Republican attitude towards the poor, which is intensely personal and indicative of  a visceral loathing for the unfortunate combined with a gleeful pleasure in increasing their suffering .

It's kind of like training your dog. Democrats tend to overindulge and over-reward their pet constituents in hopes of getting their votes. Republicans seem more interested in beating their pets sadistically when they disobey. It's the old carrot or the stick dichotomy. Personally, I'll take the carrot; you can have the stick.
 
2014-01-01 01:15:24 PM  

Bloody William: More_Like_A_Stain: Farnn: Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy,

Remember, you CHOSE to take out loans to pay for a degree that did not improve your employment opportunities. Nut up Buttercup.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened to millions of students. They allllll went into vague, foofy fields because they wanted to become 17th century paleo-philosophers of southwest Europe and not because job markets change, the economy hasn't been great, the market crashed five years ago, and education prices have skyrocketed even higher than health insurance prices before the ACA.

No, it's all their fault, because the easiest answer to "why do bad things happen to good people?" is that those people must be bad in some way, and not because the world is full of unfair situations beyond anyone's control and that success almost always comes with a measure of luck as well as skill, and sometimes not even skill. No, it's the hordes of shortsighted young people getting degrees they know they can't turn into jobs. You gormless wank.


Just consider it as the flip side of the "they shouldn't have taken out mortgages that they couldn't afford" coin. Take some personal responsibility for your own choices.
 
2014-01-01 01:21:21 PM  

clambam: At any time since the 1980′s, during their twenty years in the White House, the Republicans could have instituted something similar to the ACA, and yet they consistently chose not to. Not only that, but whenever the Democrats proposed something along these lines the Republicans fought it tooth and nail, right up to, as we've seen, shutting down the government rather than acceding to the will of the people.


The invisible hand has not done it's magic in the last 30 years, but it should be allowed to continue to try.

Perhaps tax cuts will help.
 
2014-01-01 01:22:23 PM  

theknuckler_33: "Many people will get insurance cards, but will not have a clue what's covered, what's not covered and what they are supposed to pay."

For goodness sakes, it's not rocket surgery. If the bolded part is true, it is basically because those people are idiots and hasn't a damned thing to do with the ACA.


Hmpf.  I have BCBS, and the reason I haven't a clue what is actually covered is that BCBS and my doctors say stuff is covered...then I get billed for it anyway.
 
2014-01-01 01:23:04 PM  
The poor and needy getting health insurance?

Clearly an abomination against the god of the GOP -- its name is so holy, I can only use a symbol to describe it.. $.
 
2014-01-01 01:23:42 PM  

VTGremlin: Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed:

/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.

Nope, you're correct. He's either lying or has enough health problems that it's probably just time to head out to pasture and check out the rabbits.

My bronze is $165/mo with a $5,000 deductible.


He's either full of shiat, too stupid to fill out the forms correctly, or earns mid-six figures.  In either case no sympathy about his health insurance costs.  Silver Plan limits premium at 8.05% of income regardless of subsidy level.
 
2014-01-01 01:26:15 PM  

Corvus: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

Counting those who now get Medicare because of the ACA it is 6 MILLION!


You mean Medicaid.  Two different animals.
 
2014-01-01 01:26:21 PM  
images.sodahead.com
Steve is puzzled - "i thought it was a epic fail"
 
2014-01-01 01:29:31 PM  

strapp3r: [images.sodahead.com image 171x200]
Steve is puzzled - "i thought it was a epic fail"


Not puzzled outwitted.
FOBIO - Frequently Outwitted By Inanimate Objects
 
2014-01-01 01:29:38 PM  

Bloody William: More_Like_A_Stain: Farnn: Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy,

Remember, you CHOSE to take out loans to pay for a degree that did not improve your employment opportunities. Nut up Buttercup.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened to millions of students. They allllll went into vague, foofy fields because they wanted to become 17th century paleo-philosophers of southwest Europe and not because job markets change, the economy hasn't been great, the market crashed five years ago, and education prices have skyrocketed even higher than health insurance prices before the ACA.

No, it's all their fault, because the easiest answer to "why do bad things happen to good people?" is that those people must be bad in some way, and not because the world is full of unfair situations beyond anyone's control and that success almost always comes with a measure of luck as well as skill, and sometimes not even skill. No, it's the hordes of shortsighted young people getting degrees they know they can't turn into jobs. You gormless wank.


My daughter attended St. John's College in Annapolis, MD. St. John's offers a single curriculum, the classics, starting with Ancient Greek philosophy (they actually study Ancient Greek freshman year) and working their way up to Existentialism, or something like that. In other words, the quintessential Liberal Arts degree.

She got out of school, goofed off for a few months, signed up with a temp agency and got placed at a Jewish philanthropy in Boston (she's half-Jewish and half-Armenian). That turned into a full time job and she started at $40K a year, not an engineering salary but respectable enough for a 23-year-old, even nowadays. She's moved into an apartment with some friends and is paying her own way, including her student loan bills, which are considerable.

My point here is that a "useless" degree might not be so useless after all. She learned to reason logically, to argue effectively, and to write cogently. There are places where those skills are in demand and employers are willing to pay for them. Don't be so quick to dismiss non-science degrees as useless. They are what you make of them, and, as with everything else, hard work and a little bit of luck will see you through.
 
2014-01-01 01:32:34 PM  

theknuckler_33: Suggesting that all the people who 'lost their insurance' are now uninsured is disingenuous, at best. An outright lie at worst.


Saying such is stupid at best. Retarded at worse.

Some switched. Some were dropped completely when their company left the state. It's entirely accurate to say millions lost their insurance due to the ACA requirements.

I'm not sorry that simple issues are hard for you. You have nobody to blame but yourself.
 
2014-01-01 01:33:01 PM  
Self-employed mid-thirties Floridian with pre-existing conditions here. I lost my $798/month Aetna coverage a few hours ago, and I'm now heavily burdened by my new Blue Cross insurance which is a horribly unaffordable $354/month. (That's before subsidies, BTW. I'm going to front the premiums and file for the credit in my 2014 taxes provided I qualify.)

It's a platinum plan: No deductible (vs. $1,500 with Old Plan), $2,000 out-of-pocket maximum (vs. $7,500), $10 to see my doctor (vs. $25), no charge for routine labs (vs. 100% until I reached my deductible), pharmacy copays of $0-25/month depending on the drug and where I get it from (vs. $15 or more, plus a separate $500 pharmacy deductible), and all the doctors I currently see are in-network.

Shorter: I didn't like my old plan, and now I don't have to keep it. Thanks, Obama!
 
2014-01-01 01:33:52 PM  

Elfich: Torak


I've always yearned for a movie of the Belgariad/Mallorean
 
2014-01-01 01:37:23 PM  

SauronWasFramed: But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).


I think it's terrible that normal men have to exactly the same rate for insurance as a defective woman.

If women wanted to pay the same rate as normal people, they should have thought of that before they decided to be a woman.
 
2014-01-01 01:39:17 PM  

Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral. Never allow the facts to be introduced because nothing can be defeated if kept nebulous and theoretical.


Tell you what, for every one FACT (as in verified truth) you introduce that invalidates Obamacare as a success, I will introduce THREE insane talking points that conservative pundits or politicians reported as FACT. Shall we see who runs out first?
 
2014-01-01 01:43:27 PM  
But Richie Rich will only be able to afford a 105 ft yacht this year in stead of the 106 ft one! Socializmmmmm!!! Gaaaahh!!!
 
2014-01-01 01:45:38 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.


No subsidy means he's making more than 400% of poverty level.
 
2014-01-01 01:50:29 PM  

meat0918: Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.

No subsidy means he's making more than 400% of poverty level.


img.fark.net

img.fark.net


I know these are not healthcare related figured, but it shows the same about of sympathy I have for him.
 
2014-01-01 02:04:12 PM  

FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.


According a farker from another thread it's worse the the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined.
 
2014-01-01 02:08:39 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: SauronWasFramed: they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

It's really unfair to force insurance companies to cover maternity care for men. Their annual costs for such coverage could end up being nearly $0, which will surely bankrupt them.


No, the problem is forcing group A to share in paying for coverage that only group B can take advantage of, something they wouldn't do voluntarily. So they have to be coerced by eliminating all the alternatives. This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example. Likewise young people are being forced to share in the much higher costs incurred by covering the old. The central conceit of Obamacare is that it has substituted the judgement of bureaucrats and politicians for the marketplace, and the only way it can possibly make that work is by force and fiat. Unfortunately for them, as evidenced by the ad hoc and chaotic nature of the delays and changes that they're making almost on a daily basis, it doesn't work.
 
2014-01-01 02:09:03 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

That sounds strange to me. My wife and kid were on a policy - bare bones and expensive , as she had cancer 10 years ago. Her policy, about $550 per month, was so crappy it didn't meet minimum ACA standards. So BC/BS forced her onto their shiattiest ACA compliant bronze plan. $240 a month for the two of them for better coverage than she had. Deductible lower than your quote, too. Not saying that's not the quote you got, but that seems strange.


Sometimes, people lie on the internet.

/also, those people who had their plans cancelled can now get new, better insured. They aren't uninsured forever.
 
2014-01-01 02:12:28 PM  
Welcome to the club comrades.

From Socialist Canuckistan.
 
2014-01-01 02:14:20 PM  
jjorsett:
No, the problem is forcing group A to share in paying for coverage that only group B can take advantage of, something they wouldn't do voluntarily. So they have to be coerced by eliminating all the alternatives. This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example. Likewise young people are being forced to share in the much higher costs incurred by covering the old. The central conceit of Obamacare is that it has substituted the judgement of bureaucrats and politicians for the marketplace, and the only way it can possibly make that work is by force and fiat. Unfortunately for them, as evidenced by the ad hoc and chaotic nature of the delays and changes that they're making almost on a daily basis, it doesn't work.

You really think that the pressure of including those scenarios in this law came from bureaucrats and politicians and not 'the market' providers?

You are being silly.
 
2014-01-01 02:15:50 PM  

LoneWolf343: those people who had their plans cancelled can now get new, better insured. They aren't uninsured forever.


That's crazy. Don't you remember the old saying from Tennessee? At least it's in Texas, so they probably have in Tennessee: "Insure me once, shame on you. Insure me twice...can't get insured again."
 
2014-01-01 02:18:26 PM  

jjorsett: No, the problem is forcing group A to share in paying for coverage that only group B can take advantage of, something they wouldn't do voluntarily.


At work, I pay the same rate for insurance as old people, women of childbearing age, smokers, and people with pre-existing conditions.  People with one kid pay the same rate as people with 12 kids.

Why aren't you complaining about that?
 
2014-01-01 02:24:53 PM  
So I was able to get insurance again because of ACA, so yes, thank you President Obama for eliminating pre-existing conditions. Seriously.

But I am surprised at how many people think $250 / month plus $5000+ deductibles are reasonable.

I've never had a plan with more than a $2000 deductible. I think that with the exception of three years (across five decades) where my health expenses were $100K plus, my health expenses were more like $250 for the entire year. I would never spend more those years than $5000.

So a $5000 deductible PLUS $250 per month does seem like a huge increase to me.
 
2014-01-01 02:25:47 PM  

jjorsett: The central conceit of Obamacare is that it has substituted the judgement of bureaucrats and politicians for the marketplace, and the only way it can possibly make that work is by force and fiat. Unfortunately for them, as evidenced by the ad hoc and chaotic nature of the delays and changes that they're making almost on a daily basis, it doesn't work.


That's only because the "free market" was killing 50,000 people a year because they weren't profitable enough to cover.

They forced the government's hand because they weren't willing to fix this situation.
 
2014-01-01 02:26:39 PM  

jjorsett: as evidenced by the ad hoc and chaotic nature of the delays and changes that they're making almost on a daily basis


Couldn't those delays and changes to policy also be the result of careful consideration of various points of contention brought up by critics and concerned parties in order to make application of the law better? Nawww! What am I thinking? It's obviously evidence of total failure. Thanks Obama!
 
2014-01-01 02:28:46 PM  
The ACA is finally here!!  I hope it works because I love America and Americans.  If it does not work remember who forced it on us in the middle of a holiday night using a parliamentary trick.  My president Obama.  He owns it.  If it does good he is a hero.  If it does bad he is an ass.  This is his and his alone.
 
2014-01-01 02:39:08 PM  
One issue I have with it is there's a hole where even though you quality for subsidies, it's not necessarily affordable.

/though I guess it'll eventually be more affordable than the "fine" (which the IRS can't garnish your wages, etc. to get from you).
 
2014-01-01 02:39:35 PM  

bigsteve3OOO: The ACA is finally here!!  I hope it works because I love America and Americans.  If it does not work remember who forced it on us in the middle of a holiday night using a parliamentary trick.  My president Obama.  He owns it.  If it does good he is a hero.  If it does bad he is an ass.  This is his and his alone.


LOL.  I live in Minnesota, and I say exactly the same thing every day.  When I see someone driving down the road, I say "I hope you get where you're going, because this is American and I love Americans."  But when I see someone with a car full of kids stalled out with a dead battery in the -20 degree frigid cold, I just laugh and say, "you are in a bad spot because you are an ass.  That dead battery is yours and yours alone.  You own it."

I drive away and laugh when that happens.  Not my problem if their kids freeze and die.  I love Americans, but not enough to miss my favorite TV show.
 
2014-01-01 02:41:54 PM  

Mrbogey: Some switched. Some were dropped completely when their company left the state. It's entirely accurate to say millions lost their insurance due to the ACA requirements.


Which had nothing to do with the ACA but because the insurance companies decided to do so.  Stop lying.
 
2014-01-01 02:49:48 PM  

Mrbogey: Some switched. Some were dropped completely when their company left the state. It's entirely accurate to say millions lost their insurance due to the ACA requirements.


Until you provide some sort of verifiable data from an original source, you're not doing anything but bleating out FUD.

Here are two links.  Yeah, yeah... biatch about the "liberal" sources... try RTFAs then get back to me.

HealthCare.gov also has a website specifically to help those who have been canceled.

Finally, bear in mind that, at least in 2009, over a million people filed bankruptcy due to medical bills who had insurance. That's what the ACA will do away with. People complain about not being able to keep their "cheap" plan not understanding that those plans were pretty much worthless if they contract a major medical condition.
 
2014-01-01 02:56:21 PM  
RoyBatty:But I am surprised at how many people think $250 / month plus $5000+ deductibles are reasonable.

I've never had a plan with more than a $2000 deductible. I think that with the exception of three years (across five decades) where my health expenses were $100K plus, my health expenses were more like $250 for the entire year. I would never spend more those years than $5000.

So a $5000 deductible PLUS $250 per month does seem like a huge increase to me.


I'm confused. The rate you think isn't very reasonable would take over a century to cover the cost of the care you've incurred, and you're still typing that you think it's a significant burden.
 
2014-01-01 02:57:56 PM  
That's because they have to get insurance, or pay up and still not have it, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

/Farking liberals.
 
2014-01-01 02:58:44 PM  

Daraymann: That's because they have to get insurance, or pay up and still not have it, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

/Farking liberals.


Yes, having healthcare is the worst thing ever.
 
2014-01-01 03:00:16 PM  

clambam: St. John's offers a single curriculum, the classics, starting with Ancient Greek philosophy (they actually study Ancient Greek freshman year) and working their way up to Existentialism, or something like that. In other words, the quintessential Liberal Arts degree.

She got out of school, goofed off for a few months, signed up with a temp agency and got placed at a Jewish philanthropy in Boston (she's half-Jewish and half-Armenian). That turned into a full time job and she started at $40K a year, not an engineering salary but respectable enough for a 23-year-old, even nowadays.


I would not be surprised if a Jewish Philanthropy might be one of the few outfits where people who would be impressed by a St. John's degree make hiring decisions.
 
2014-01-01 03:01:04 PM  

Third Day Mark: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible. Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Hi there, I just turned 29.  Thank you for picking out what healthcare coverage I need and don't need!   I'll tell my girlfriend/future wife, "Honey, sorry about that Maternity coverage, we just need catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  No more kids for us."   And her autistic 10 year old son who would become my step-son and come onto my insurance policy?  I'll have to find some way to relate to him that he cant have his occupational therapies which have enabled him to do things like, talk, stop peeing the bed, relate what he's saying in a coherent manner, etc, because we just have catastrophic coverage.

Again, thank YOU for picking out what healthcare insurance I needed!   I'z jus' a dum bastahd and dunz knowz whatsis any gud fer myself!  


You smug f*cking prick, go eat a bullet and rid this country of the problem.


Thanks for making my day with this posting.  I checked out your profile and you seem damn cool and an amazing person.  Sponsored you for TF, my pal =)  Happy New Years!
 
2014-01-01 03:01:31 PM  

Mrbogey: Some were dropped completely when their company left the state. It's entirely accurate to say millions lost their insurance due to the ACA requirements.


SInce ACA requirements are everywhere, how does an insurance company benefit by leaving the state?
 
2014-01-01 03:05:48 PM  

flondrix: Mrbogey: Some were dropped completely when their company left the state. It's entirely accurate to say millions lost their insurance due to the ACA requirements.

SInce ACA requirements are everywhere, how does an insurance company benefit by leaving the state?


It didn't.  The case he's talking about involves California not giving health tax breaks for two companies who were floundering in the independent insurance market.
 
2014-01-01 03:09:21 PM  

jjorsett: This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example.


As opposed to pre-ACA, when men got boner pills but women didn't get birth coverage.  Funny how that works.
 
2014-01-01 03:09:29 PM  
Here is the problem that all you self-appointed "critics" of the ACA have - the only remedy you seem to offer, simply repealing ACA, would taks us back to our old system - one where we pay more than anybody else in the world for "insurance" that is really a "Christmas club" for healthcare that only covers 65% of our populace. By the standards you, yourselves, are demanding, that's unacceptable.
So.
What, exactly, ARE all these "problems" you think you have identified?
What solutions do you suggest?
What constructive input, if any, do you have to contribute?

If all you can do is biatch to no purpose, kindly STFU.
 
2014-01-01 03:11:46 PM  

evilmrsock: RoyBatty:But I am surprised at how many people think $250 / month plus $5000+ deductibles are reasonable.

I've never had a plan with more than a $2000 deductible. I think that with the exception of three years (across five decades) where my health expenses were $100K plus, my health expenses were more like $250 for the entire year. I would never spend more those years than $5000.

So a $5000 deductible PLUS $250 per month does seem like a huge increase to me.

I'm confused. The rate you think isn't very reasonable would take over a century to cover the cost of the care you've incurred, and you're still typing that you think it's a significant burden.


I agree, I have absolutely required my insurance, but that's not my point which is:

1) When I was covered, I could be covered for about $250 a month with only a $2,000 deductible, max.
2) For most people (or so I conjecture knowing nothing about the true numbers based only on my own experience), to move from a $2,000 deductible to a $5,000 deductible means they will never receive any benefits of insurance for that year.

What I am saying is there seems to be little difference between a policy with a $5,000 deductible and a catastrophic policy with much lower monthly payments and a $10,000 deductible

A change from a $2,000 deductible to a $5,000 deductible seems to be a huge increase that eliminates most insurance policy benefits for most people. (Again, total speculation based on sample sizes of about 3)

(FWIW, the three years I had major expenses my deductibles were actually quite low to non-existent so my payouts were not for surgery or hospitalization at all, just for some office copays, for which I thank the unions of the companies I worked for for demanding better coverage every year and was able to get it through scale and negotiation power that benefited me, a non union employee.)
 
2014-01-01 03:17:33 PM  

Fart_Machine: Yes, having government mandated healthcare is the worst thing ever stupid, overbearing and solves nothing.


Fixed.
 
2014-01-01 03:18:19 PM  

Larry Mahnken: SauronWasFramed: they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

Yeah, that's how insurance works.  That's how it's always worked.  People who don't use the medical service pay for the people who do use it.


Um... birth control for post menopausal woman or male maternity care. I think SauronWasFramed's point went right way over people's heads. :>
 
2014-01-01 03:18:24 PM  

flondrix: jjorsett: This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example.

As opposed to pre-ACA, when men got boner pills but women didn't get birth coverage.  Funny how that works.


Viagra treats a physical, medical problem - ED.  Birth control doesn't.  That's the rationale, I think, behind not covering BC.  Plus, the religious right didn't think of conception as anything but a miracle, so why should you be able to.
 
2014-01-01 03:20:32 PM  

anwserman: Third Day Mark: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible. Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Hi there, I just turned 29.  Thank you for picking out what healthcare coverage I need and don't need!   I'll tell my girlfriend/future wife, "Honey, sorry about that Maternity coverage, we just need catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  No more kids for us."   And her autistic 10 year old son who would become my step-son and come onto my insurance policy?  I'll have to find some way to relate to him that he cant have his occupational therapies which have enabled him to do things like, talk, stop peeing the bed, relate what he's saying in a coherent manner, etc, because we just have catastrophic coverage.

Again, thank YOU for picking out what healthcare insurance I needed!   I'z jus' a dum bastahd and dunz knowz whatsis any gud fer myself!  


You smug f*cking prick, go eat a bullet and rid this country of the problem.

Thanks for making my day with this posting.  I checked out your profile and you seem damn cool and an amazing person.  Sponsored you for TF, my pal =)  Happy New Years!


Muchos Grassy-ass senior burrito.     I will use it wisely*.

/*Wisley = FOOBIES!
//Seriously though, just a regular guy.   I appreciate it!
 
2014-01-01 03:28:36 PM  

The Larch: bigsteve3OOO: The ACA is finally here!!  I hope it works because I love America and Americans.  If it does not work remember who forced it on us in the middle of a holiday night using a parliamentary trick.  My president Obama.  He owns it.  If it does good he is a hero.  If it does bad he is an ass.  This is his and his alone.

LOL.  I live in Minnesota, and I say exactly the same thing every day.  When I see someone driving down the road, I say "I hope you get where you're going, because this is American and I love Americans."  But when I see someone with a car full of kids stalled out with a dead battery in the -20 degree frigid cold, I just laugh and say, "you are in a bad spot because you are an ass.  That dead battery is yours and yours alone.  You own it."

I drive away and laugh when that happens.  Not my problem if their kids freeze and die.  I love Americans, but not enough to miss my favorite TV show.


Do you blame the privious owner of the car? (Bush) or the current owner (Obama)?  And why would anyone drive a car with a known bad battery?
 
2014-01-01 03:33:32 PM  

Daraymann: Fart_Machine: Yes, having government mandated healthcare is the worst thing ever stupid, overbearing and solves nothing.

Fixed.


Because nobody ever gets sick or has medical complications.
 
2014-01-01 03:33:57 PM  

Aquapope: flondrix: jjorsett: This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example.

As opposed to pre-ACA, when men got boner pills but women didn't get birth coverage.  Funny how that works.

Viagra treats a physical, medical problem - ED.  Birth control doesn't.  That's the rationale, I think, behind not covering BC.  Plus, the religious right didn't think of conception as anything but a miracle, so why should you be able to.


Endometriosis and ovarian cysts aren't physical, medical problems?
 
2014-01-01 03:34:16 PM  

mofa: I have to say, "... and there's nothing anyone can do about it" is spot-on.  When I talk with these people IRL they sound like they're on the brink of tears.  Because poor people. Will. Get. Health. Care.

A relative told me that I was one of the "losers" with the ACA, as I'm going to be subsidizing poor peoples' health care.  "Yeah, that's the idea, and I count it as a win."

Seeing the red states screw their own because REASONS gives me equal measures of schadenfreude and horror.


This. I'm subsidizing your kids in school. Or maybe I'm paying back from when I was in school. I subsidized old people when I was young and will be subsidized soon when I'm older. Suck it whippersnappers!

I pay taxes for wars I don't agree with and wars I do. I pay taxes for sports arena subsidies...which I really hate. My taxes pay for roads I use and roads I don't use, roads for friends and for enemies.

We are social animals, or maybe god made us social beings in likeness to herself, and what we do ripples out to society and what other people do ripples back to us. Neckbeards living in mom's basement interact with others even if just with the EMTs when their Cheetoh covered bodies are hauled upstairs after a heart attack.

We can do this intentionally and with open debate (ha ha) through democracy, government, and yes, the horrible dreaded taxes. We can do it semi-intentionally by what we sell, buy, work at, and do in our communities. Or we can do it without thought or planning and then wonder why cute, little Timmy died in the emergency room from an easily preventable disease (at greater cost than the ER) while Paris gets a fifth boob job.

I'm glad more people have better health care. I look forward to good debates about how we can continue to make healthcare work and make changes to systems for the (hopefully) better.
 
2014-01-01 03:34:47 PM  

Mrbogey: theknuckler_33: Suggesting that all the people who 'lost their insurance' are now uninsured is disingenuous, at best. An outright lie at worst.

Saying such is stupid at best. Retarded at worse.

Some switched. Some were dropped completely when their company left the state. It's entirely accurate to say millions lost their insurance due to the ACA requirements.

I'm not sorry that simple issues are hard for you. You have nobody to blame but yourself.



By that definition, tens, if not hundreds, of millions of Americans lose their insurance every year when their employers negotiate the new plan year. That's a stupid definition to use in a discussion about how many people HAVE or DON'T HAVE health insurance since that is what the ACA is all about.
 
2014-01-01 03:39:48 PM  
So, When do you guys think that the GOP and their ilk will begin to claim credit for the ACA?

Ive got it down for about 1 year from now, maybe a little more.
 
2014-01-01 03:41:08 PM  

Heliovdrake: So, When do you guys think that the GOP and their ilk will begin to claim credit for the ACA?

Ive got it down for about 1 year from now, maybe a little more.


I almost forgot, I think one of the first signs well see of this, will be when they start calling it the ACA over Obamacare in congress and in places like fark.
 
2014-01-01 03:41:53 PM  

Arachnophobe: Aquapope: flondrix: jjorsett: This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example.

As opposed to pre-ACA, when men got boner pills but women didn't get birth coverage.  Funny how that works.

Viagra treats a physical, medical problem - ED.  Birth control doesn't.  That's the rationale, I think, behind not covering BC.  Plus, the religious right didn't think of conception as anything but a miracle, so why should you be able to.

Endometriosis and ovarian cysts aren't physical, medical problems?


Plus, how is inability to get a boner a medical problem? Just stop having sex. You can live without sex. It's more of a cosmetic problem like warts or moles. No reason to mandate coverage.

/note: not my actual belief unless you aren't willing to pay for BC
 
2014-01-01 03:42:38 PM  

Arachnophobe: Aquapope: flondrix: jjorsett: This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example.

As opposed to pre-ACA, when men got boner pills but women didn't get birth coverage.  Funny how that works.

Viagra treats a physical, medical problem - ED.  Birth control doesn't.  That's the rationale, I think, behind not covering BC.  Plus, the religious right didn't think of conception as anything but a miracle, so why should you be able to.

Endometriosis and ovarian cysts aren't physical, medical problems?


Of course they are.  I'm not trying to defend the 'thought' process behind not covering BC.  That's the only non-religious reason I can think of to not cover BC BC.
 
2014-01-01 03:43:27 PM  

Farnn: friday13: So you think old people SHOULD be crippled by those costs? 'Cuz I'd rather nobody be crippled, and the evidence - your (most likely) bullshiat numbers notwithstanding - is so far saying that they won't be.

No, that's why they have insurance.  But they should have higher incomes than a 28 year old and should be able to afford higher premiums.  And what numbers am I using?  That the risk factor for prostate cancer is higher for a 65 year old than a 28 year old?  How many 28 year olds do you know with prostate cancer?


Quite certainly the most uninformed person in this thread.
 
2014-01-01 03:43:29 PM  

Daraymann: ...stupid, overbearing and solves nothing.


This, ladies and gentlemen, is the face of empty, blind partisanship.
 
2014-01-01 03:45:12 PM  

Aquapope: Arachnophobe: Aquapope: flondrix: jjorsett: This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example.

As opposed to pre-ACA, when men got boner pills but women didn't get birth coverage.  Funny how that works.

Viagra treats a physical, medical problem - ED.  Birth control doesn't.  That's the rationale, I think, behind not covering BC.  Plus, the religious right didn't think of conception as anything but a miracle, so why should you be able to.

Endometriosis and ovarian cysts aren't physical, medical problems?

Of course they are.  I'm not trying to defend the 'thought' process behind not covering BC.  That's the only non-religious reason I can think of to not cover BC BC.


Ah, I misunderstood you then.
 
2014-01-01 03:47:02 PM  

Heliovdrake: So, When do you guys think that the GOP and their ilk will begin to claim credit for the ACA?

Ive got it down for about 1 year from now, maybe a little more.


Not before the midterms next Nov, because they have to spend all the time before using it in a feeble attempt to win.  By that time the ACA will be showing a lot of success and literally millions of people will like it.

Then, about 3-4 months after the midterms a few GOP guys not up for election in 2016 will float trial comments like "the GOP-created ACA".  Depends on how well that works for them to continue to take credit.
 
2014-01-01 03:47:05 PM  

Heliovdrake: Heliovdrake: So, When do you guys think that the GOP and their ilk will begin to claim credit for the ACA?

Ive got it down for about 1 year from now, maybe a little more.

I almost forgot, I think one of the first signs well see of this, will be when they start calling it the ACA over Obamacare in congress and in places like fark.


I don't know if they'll really be able to do this. Millions of lock-steppers are now entirely invested in believing that the ACA is equivalent to the worst evils humanity has ever produced.

My prediction is they'll try to use it to win elections in 2014, fail miserably, then just pretty much stop talking about it at all.
 
2014-01-01 04:02:48 PM  

jjorsett: No, the problem is forcing group A to share in paying for coverage that only group B can take advantage of, something they wouldn't do voluntarily. So they have to be coerced by eliminating all the alternatives. This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example. Likewise young people are being forced to share in the much higher costs incurred by covering the old.


Are you just learning how insurance works?

That explains a lot about you actually.
 
2014-01-01 04:08:02 PM  

fatassbastard: Daraymann: ...stupid, overbearing and solves nothing.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the face of empty, blind partisanship.


How purely ironic of you.

If the mandatory part was dropped, I would have no problem with "Affordable" Health Care.  Too bad both sides are so drunk on there own propaganda that that will never happen.

/Getting told by two farkers named fartmachine and fatass made my day
//eyeroll
 
2014-01-01 04:13:06 PM  

Daraymann: fatassbastard: Daraymann: ...stupid, overbearing and solves nothing.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the face of empty, blind partisanship.

How purely ironic of you.

If the mandatory part was dropped, I would have no problem with "Affordable" Health Care.  Too bad both sides are so drunk on there own propaganda that that will never happen.

/Getting told by two farkers named fartmachine and fatass made my day
//eyeroll


Probably because the mandate is the only way it would have been feasible under the current insurance system.

But herp derp u have a funny name on Fark!!!11111
 
2014-01-01 04:14:13 PM  

Daraymann: /Getting told by two farkers named fartmachine and fatass made my day


Attacking Fark handles is never a wise idea.
 
2014-01-01 04:27:50 PM  
And millions more are losing it.

Ready to admit liberals were wrong about ObamaCare yet? Since... well, pretty much everything all the critics said would happen, has happened, in spite of liberals swearing it would never happen.
 
2014-01-01 04:27:51 PM  

Daraymann: If the mandatory part was dropped, I would have no problem with "Affordable" Health Care.


Which just shows how you have no real understanding of this whole situation.

Too bad both sides are so drunk on there own propaganda that that will never happen.

Mm-hmm... people like me post facts, sources and in-depth commentary, while people like you post vague, unsupported criticisms and sophomoric insults. Propaganda, indeed.

/Getting told by two farkers named fartmachine and fatass made my day
//eyeroll


As other FARKers have pointed out, basing any portion of your argument on someone's username is... well, empty, like pretty much everything else you've said.
 
2014-01-01 04:31:36 PM  

randomjsa: And millions more are losing it.

Ready to admit liberals were wrong about ObamaCare yet? Since... well, pretty much everything all the critics said would happen, has happened, in spite of liberals swearing it would never happen.


fatassbastard: ...vague, unsupported criticisms and sophomoric insults

.
 
2014-01-01 04:38:21 PM  

fatassbastard: randomjsa: And millions more are losing it.

Ready to admit liberals were wrong about ObamaCare yet? Since... well, pretty much everything all the critics said would happen, has happened, in spite of liberals swearing it would never happen.

fatassbastard: ...vague, unsupported criticisms and sophomoric insults.


What do you think the JSA stands for?

Jock Strap Aroma
Just shiat Anywhere
 
2014-01-01 04:50:14 PM  

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


The Kaiser calculator (http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/) says you can get a Silver plan for your family, which after subsidies comes to $5,700 per year. I used 60K in annual income because I don't expect anyone to post their income in a public space.

If you make more than 60K a year in MS, then you can certainly afford $470 a month (according to Kaiser) to cover two 50+ year olds and a 19 year old. 60K there is like 160K in NY.

Did you call the help number and get a quote from an actual human? Maybe you have bad info?
 
2014-01-01 05:11:51 PM  

randomjsa: And millions more are losing it.


You're saying these people are without coverage right now?
 
2014-01-01 05:13:00 PM  

Aquapope: Thankfully, some of us are still unable to partake of the ebil insurance because we live in states that didn't expand medicare/medicaid.  Thanks Kansas GOP for keeping me safe from affordable healthcare!


Move to a better state.
 
2014-01-01 05:33:10 PM  

OneBrightMonkey: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

The Kaiser calculator (http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/) says you can get a Silver plan for your family, which after subsidies comes to $5,700 per year. I used 60K in annual income because I don't expect anyone to post their income in a public space.

If you make more than 60K a year in MS, then you can certainly afford $470 a month (according to Kaiser) to cover two 50+ year olds and a 19 year old. 60K there is like 160K in NY.

Did you call the help number and get a quote from an actual human? Maybe you have bad info?


He lives in Mississippi, which has all kinds of messed up issue with insurance.

Here's an article in the Mississippi Business Journal that goes into some detail.  Aparently, Blue Cross/Blue Shield was the only insurance in Miss., and had been exercising it's pimp hand recently.  In setting up it's marketplace, Mississippi found that no insurance companies wanted to participate in 36 of her counties, it took the state agreeing to a base rate of $300/mo for a 30 yo non smoker, with a 3x multiplier for age to get Humana and Magnolia to participate. This is where his $940/mo comes from.  Next year, or the year after, Mississippians may be about to get Multi-state plan with much better premium rates.
 
2014-01-01 05:35:08 PM  
Hello, I'm British.

My health insurance is :Go to hospital. Tell them your name (or don't). Get treated.

My expenses: Maybe have to pay for coffee if I'm an out-patient.

It's great.


/sorry, just had to stick it in there.
 
2014-01-01 05:48:14 PM  

Bungles: Hello, I'm British.

My health insurance is :Go to hospital. Tell them your name (or don't). Get treated.

My expenses: Maybe have to pay for coffee if I'm an out-patient.

It's great.


/sorry, just had to stick it in there.


How's the dental plan?
/just had to stick that in there
//it's funny cause I'm pretty sure most Americans don't have dental insurance either...I do but it covers less than half...
 
2014-01-01 06:06:03 PM  

Bungles: Hello, I'm British.

My health insurance is :Go to hospital. Tell them your name (or don't). Get treated.

My expenses: Maybe have to pay for coffee if I'm an out-patient.

It's great.


/sorry, just had to stick it in there.


Yeah but Rush says if you go to a british doctor they just death panel you because its way cheaper.

NO SOCIALISM FOR ME THANKS!
 
2014-01-01 06:44:07 PM  

The Larch: jjorsett: No, the problem is forcing group A to share in paying for coverage that only group B can take advantage of, something they wouldn't do voluntarily.

At work, I pay the same rate for insurance as old people, women of childbearing age, smokers, and people with pre-existing conditions.  People with one kid pay the same rate as people with 12 kids.

Why aren't you complaining about that?


Do you expect a stinking shiat stain on the underwear of Fark to somehow stop being a greasy stinking shiat stain?
 
2014-01-01 06:59:48 PM  
RoyBatty:What I am saying is there seems to be little difference between a policy with a $5,000 deductible and a catastrophic policy with much lower monthly payments and a $10,000 deductible

This site tries to spell out the differences between Bronze and Catastrophic but I'm a little hazy on the Actuarial definition, which basically reading to me that the "deductible" on a Bronze isn't the harsh out of pocket limit that the "catastrophic" is and that you're thinking. But the main difference is that the Bronze plan qualifies for the up-front tax credit for 45k single earners or less, to eat those premium increases up front for people who have the cost issues with it compared to catastrophic.

"Bronze plans will have an "actuarial value" of 60 percent, meaning they will cover 60 percent of all health care costs for the average person. " "Covers 60 percent of health care costs for the average person, and specified preventive services at no cost." "actual deductibles are likely to be significantly lower because plans must cover 60 percent of health care costs for the average person."

The catastrophic plan is the $6k and change of real out-of-pocket deductible like you're thinking. I don't understand the exacts of this bronze 60% nonsense, but it doesn't seem to be on par.
 
2014-01-01 07:00:26 PM  
 
2014-01-01 07:10:18 PM  

Ishidan: Bungles: Hello, I'm British.

My health insurance is :Go to hospital. Tell them your name (or don't). Get treated.

My expenses: Maybe have to pay for coffee if I'm an out-patient.

It's great.


/sorry, just had to stick it in there.

How's the dental plan?
/just had to stick that in there
//it's funny cause I'm pretty sure most Americans don't have dental insurance either...I do but it covers less than half...


Dental is the sole service that is essentially quasi privatized in the UK..... worked brilliantly! The NHS Dental is not of a scale designed for an entire population.
 
2014-01-01 07:16:18 PM  

Aquapope: flondrix: jjorsett: This applies in both directions, women get birth coverage, men get boner pills for example.

As opposed to pre-ACA, when men got boner pills but women didn't get birth coverage.  Funny how that works.

Viagra treats a physical, medical problem - ED.  Birth control doesn't.  That's the rationale, I think, behind not covering BC.  Plus, the religious right didn't think of conception as anything but a miracle, so why should you be able to.


Pregnancy causes very real health complications for women.  Controlling and spacing pregnancies is a real health need for women.  Just because there wasn't a way to do that before the 20th century doesn't make it any less of a need.  Men lived without boner pills until just recently too.

One could argue that ED is not a real medical problem either.  People don't die from lack of boners.
 
2014-01-01 07:25:50 PM  

Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.


Do you understand how insurance works? How it has ALWAYS worked? It's not as if they bank your premiums to pay for your future claims; the healthy people pay for the sick people. When (not if, cause they use statisticals) YOU get sick, the healthy will pay for you. That's why your payments now go to the woman in Minneapolis with an ectopic pregnancy (even if you are a man), or the guy in Rochester with prostate cancer (even if you're a woman).

Oh, also, your rate is based on your age as well as other issues.
/ Bet you didn't know that.
//How can people with no concept of the issues have such heart-felt opinions?
///What a shame that despite the Internet, people still go to bed stupid
 
2014-01-01 07:45:16 PM  

evilmrsock: RoyBatty:What I am saying is there seems to be little difference between a policy with a $5,000 deductible and a catastrophic policy with much lower monthly payments and a $10,000 deductible

This site tries to spell out the differences between Bronze and Catastrophic but I'm a little hazy on the Actuarial definition, which basically reading to me that the "deductible" on a Bronze isn't the harsh out of pocket limit that the "catastrophic" is and that you're thinking. But the main difference is that the Bronze plan qualifies for the up-front tax credit for 45k single earners or less, to eat those premium increases up front for people who have the cost issues with it compared to catastrophic.

"Bronze plans will have an "actuarial value" of 60 percent, meaning they will cover 60 percent of all health care costs for the average person. " "Covers 60 percent of health care costs for the average person, and specified preventive services at no cost." "actual deductibles are likely to be significantly lower because plans must cover 60 percent of health care costs for the average person."

The catastrophic plan is the $6k and change of real out-of-pocket deductible like you're thinking. I don't understand the exacts of this bronze 60% nonsense, but it doesn't seem to be on par.


Thanks, I appreciate that, and I won't argue against actuarial data, just repeat my personal experience: I either spend basically nothing during the year or spend a lifetime's of savings, and with previous insurance with either no deductibles or $2K deductibles, a $5K deductible seems unreasonable and high and doesn't justify the monthly payment (in addition to probably copays.)

I think that would be true for me regardless of my income level though I appreciate at lower income levels tax subsidy's take much of the monthly payment goes away.

I guess it just doesn't seem like much of a group plan discount compared to far better group plans I have enjoyed and used.
 
2014-01-01 07:53:27 PM  

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


I just looked up bronze policies in my area. Since I don't know your age, income, or location, I checked a few different ages...80, 60, and 40. Here are the most and least expensive options, with no subsidies included...

Most Expensive
Bronze $10 Copay POS Plan  by CoventryOne (BronzePOS)
Monthly Premium:  $618.57 for age 80, $559.60 for age 60, $263.51 for age 40
Deductible:  $5,600 / person,$11,200 / family
Out of Pocket Max:$6,350 / person,$12,700 / family

Least Expensive
Blue Advantage Bronze 5000  by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina (BronzePPO)
Monthly Premium:  $453.80 for age 80, $511.04 for age 60, $240.65 for age 40
Deductible:$5,000 / person,$10,000 / family
Out of Pocket Max:$6,350 / person,$12,700 / family

I checked a few other states as well. Of all those I checked, the "bottom-end" Bronze plan was cheaper than in NC, so unless you provide more info, shenanigans. The only scenario I could come up with to come close to your prices was a 42-year old married couple with three teenagers, or an old couple who are  56 and 55 years old.
 
2014-01-01 08:10:36 PM  

Fart_Machine: Which had nothing to do with the ACA but because the insurance companies decided to do so. Stop lying.


Debunking your spin isn't lying. The mandates under the law made it unprofitable for them in some markets so they left. You're like a frat boy that drives a woman into the middle of nowhere and then tell her she's "free" to walk home or she can earn a ride back to town... it's her choice.

fatassbastard: Until you provide some sort of verifiable data from an original source, you're not doing anything but bleating out FUD.

Here are two links. Yeah, yeah... biatch about the "liberal" sources... try RTFAs then get back to me.


If you bothered to read your links it'd be clear it's simply putting lipstick on a pig. It doesn't rebut the cancellations. It just spins it away that they were crappy plans (those grapes were sour anyway!) even though many people liked their plans. Why do you think the laws popularity is sinking? Propaganda? The same propganda arguments have been going on for years. It's the effects people are seeing that is why they're getting pissed.

fatassbastard: Finally, bear in mind that, at least in 2009, over a million people filed bankruptcy due to medical bills who had insurance.


I get a chuckle when people cite that study. It uses in it's consideration if any medical bills were discharged during a bankruptcy filing. So someone with $500 in medical bills went just as bankrupt from medical costs as someone with $50,000.

Spin all you like, people hate the implementation of this law and it's not because the GOP told them to do so.

theknuckler_33: By that definition, tens, if not hundreds, of millions of Americans lose their insurance every year when their employers negotiate the new plan year. That's a stupid definition to use in a discussion about how many people HAVE or DON'T HAVE health insurance since that is what the ACA is all about.



Haha! You're lying. That's a curious tactic for you to take. It's like you took Victory by Definition and Strawman and forced them into a civil union.
 
2014-01-01 08:11:30 PM  

Bungles: Hello, I'm British.

My health insurance is :Go to hospital. Tell them your name (or don't). Get treated.

My expenses: Maybe have to pay for coffee if I'm an out-patient.

It's great.


/sorry, just had to stick it in there.


Canadian single payer gave us Ted Cruz. No thanks.
 
2014-01-01 08:40:35 PM  

piermont: bizzwire: Farnn: JolobinSmokin: Farnn: Great, people have health care, and the insurance companies are making billions off this law because they had a big hand in writing it.  And the people who actually wrote it are making millions because only they can decipher it for everyone else.  And people are forced to get coverage for more than they need/want.  Young people shouldn't need much more than catastrophic coverage with a high deductible.  Older people who generally need more health care also tend to have more money to afford higher premiums.  All these young people who have championed health care for all have gotten screwed and they don't even realize it.

Because we will never get old, right?

Way to think ahead.

My 54 year old uncle got a bronze plan for $289/ month and a $5600 ded.  No subsidy, how awful.

So the 27 year old who makes 40k a year should be helping to subsidize your uncle?  Rates should go up as you age because the amount of care you need goes up.   And you share the risk and burden with everyone else in your age group.  Young people have enough costs these days with student debt and a stagnant economy, why not allow to them to maybe save a bit for retirement because it's doubtful Social Security will be around by the time they retire.

Do you understand how insurance works? How it has ALWAYS worked? It's not as if they bank your premiums to pay for your future claims; the healthy people pay for the sick people. When (not if, cause they use statisticals) YOU get sick, the healthy will pay for you. That's why your payments now go to the woman in Minneapolis with an ectopic pregnancy (even if you are a man), or the guy in Rochester with prostate cancer (even if you're a woman).

Oh, also, your rate is based on your age as well as other issues.
/ Bet you didn't know that.
//How can people with no concept of the issues have such heart-felt opinions?
///What a shame that despite the Internet, people still go to bed stupid


if what you say were as true as you want it to be, your health insurance premiums would be based on whether that woman in Minneapolis smokes, not whether you do. In reality, in the individual markets, your health insurance is a bet by the insurance company that you cost them less than they have to pay out for your care. Smoking, obesity, etc all contribute towards your premiums. When participating in a group policy, the insurance company is betting that the premiums of the group will exceed the cost of their care and the premiums are set at levels to make that statistically probable.


Agreed. That's what I meant when I said "your rate is based on your age and other issues," which also applies to your hypothetical woman in Minneapolis who smokes.

I think we're in agreement here.
 
2014-01-01 08:51:15 PM  

dopirt: OneBrightMonkey: SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

The Kaiser calculator (http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/) says you can get a Silver plan for your family, which after subsidies comes to $5,700 per year. I used 60K in annual income because I don't expect anyone to post their income in a public space.

If you make more than 60K a year in MS, then you can certainly afford $470 a month (according to Kaiser) to cover two 50+ year olds and a 19 year old. 60K there is like 160K in NY.

Did you call the help number and get a quote from an actual human? Maybe you have bad info?

He lives in Mississippi, which has all kinds of messed up issue with insurance.

Here's an article in the Mississippi Business Journal that goes into some detail.  Aparently, Blue Cross/Blue Shield was the only insurance in Miss., and had been exercising it's pimp hand recently.  In setting up it's marketplace, Mississippi found that no insurance companies wanted to participate in 36 of her counties, it took the state agreeing to a base rate of $300/mo for a 30 yo non smoker, with a 3x multiplier for age to get Humana and Magnolia to participate. This is where his $940/mo comes from.  Next year, or the year after, Mississippians may be about to get Multi-state plan with much better premium rates.


Thanks for the article. I've been hearing quite a bit that the least populated states are seeking the most pronounced sticker shock due to lack of competition amongst providers.

Wouldn't it be one the great ironies of history if all the small states like Vermont and Mississippi pooled their residents to increase purchasing power on each's collective exchanges - a confederacy if you will.

This is exactly why each small state exchange needed to have a public option alternative. I hold out hope that such as option will start being introduced by state legislatures.
 
2014-01-01 08:54:59 PM  

piermont: if what you say were as true as you want it to be, your health insurance premiums would be based on whether that woman in Minneapolis smokes, not whether you do. In reality, in the individual markets, your health insurance is a bet by the insurance company that you cost them less than they have to pay out for your care. Smoking, obesity, etc all contribute towards your premiums. When participating in a group policy, the insurance company is betting that the premiums of the group will exceed the cost of their care and the premiums are set at levels to make that statistically probable.


Wow SkullKrusher you are having a busy day with your ALT account being in both these threads.
 
2014-01-01 08:57:29 PM  

Mrbogey: theknuckler_33: By that definition, tens, if not hundreds, of millions of Americans lose their insurance every year when their employers negotiate the new plan year. That's a stupid definition to use in a discussion about how many people HAVE or DON'T HAVE health insurance since that is what the ACA is all about.


Haha! You're lying.


About what?
 
2014-01-01 09:16:10 PM  

itsdan: SauronWasFramed: But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

And if you're a young person it covers arthritis even if you aren't likely to have it for decades, that's how insurance works. My insurance covers cancer treatment even if I don't currently have cancer. My car insurance covers accidents even if I'm not currently in an accident.


Finally I will have uterus insurance in the event I grow a uterus. Worth every penny.
 
2014-01-01 09:34:40 PM  

jigger: Finally I will have uterus insurance in the event I grow a uterus. Worth every penny.


Somewhere a woman has to pay for prostate insurance. See how pooling works?
 
2014-01-01 09:56:29 PM  

Mrbogey: Debunking your spin isn't lying. The mandates under the law made it unprofitable for them in some markets so they left.


Um no, considering that's what the Insurance Commissioner of California stated was the reason for them leaving which was why it was one state and nothing on the national level. Debunking involves showing proof not just saying "nuh uh".

Mrbogey: You're like a frat boy that drives a woman into the middle of nowhere and then tell her she's "free" to walk home or she can earn a ride back to town... it's her choice.


No, it's nothing like that but let me guess.  You were that frat boy weren't you?  Do you still drug your "dates"?
 
2014-01-01 10:11:54 PM  
img42.imageshack.us
 
2014-01-01 10:41:35 PM  

SauronWasFramed: So we have 3 million that have signed up.

But there were 15 million that were uninsured and another 5 million that lost their policies because they didn't include free birth control (even if you are a post menopausal woman) or maternity care (for men).

In other words we are whooping it up because there are 2 million less insured.


/ if you can't afford the premiums, how will you pay the deductibles?

//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable


stop this thruthtelling immediately, sir! Don't you realize the self proclaimed experts on what is best for you and me NEED to live in an enchanted fairy tale wonderland? So take your math and expedient and accurate rejection of more people now having affordable insurance than before and cram it.
 
2014-01-01 10:44:36 PM  

Mrbogey: Always talk about the success of a failure in the ephemeral. Never allow the facts to be introduced because nothing can be defeated if kept nebulous and theoretical.


whoa. again, allow me to remind you that you are upsetting people that don't get math and think poor people are poor because rich people are rich.
 
2014-01-01 11:10:08 PM  
SauronWasFramed:
//  my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

yeah so "No subsidy. Not affordable ", i blame you for voting for republicans in your state who decided not to chip in for your subsidy so as to poison you against obama.
 
2014-01-01 11:14:29 PM  

Mr.Tangent: Welcome to the club comrades.

From Socialist Canuckistan.


Shoes for Industry, Fellow Worker.
 
2014-01-01 11:23:06 PM  
Late to the thread, here:

Does anyone remember FOX et. al. saying that doctors were going to stop practicing because of Obamacare?

I wonder how many doctors have quit as a result of gaining more patients...
 
2014-01-01 11:27:38 PM  
Heh.

Just had a side add here on Fark for "Keeping Obamacare out of Texas."  I wonder if the makers of it are dumb enough to think that's possible or are just hoping that people who click on it are.
 
2014-01-01 11:28:10 PM  
The other is redacted, I try for perfection...

img41.imageshack.us
 
x23
2014-01-01 11:41:25 PM  

timujin: Aquapope: Thankfully, some of us are still unable to partake of the ebil insurance because we live in states that didn't expand medicare/medicaid.  Thanks Kansas GOP for keeping me safe from affordable healthcare!

Move to a better state.



no no no. that line of reasoning only applies if you dislike abortion restrictions or bans on gay marriage. then it is easy to just pick up and move.

but if it is gun control or obamacare related... no one should EVER be forced to move and it should be fixed federally. because of... uh... states rights and furthermore therefore socialism comma.
 
x23
2014-01-01 11:42:33 PM  

tjfly: / my bronze policy quote:$940 a month with a $12600 deductible. No subsidy. Not affordable

stop this thruthtelling immediately, sir! Don't you realize the self proclaimed experts on what is best for you and me NEED to live in an enchanted fairy tale wonderland? So take your math and expedient and accurate rejection of more people now having affordable insurance than before and cram it.



someone didn't read the whole thread. i wonder who that could be. that must be embarrassing.
 
2014-01-01 11:43:09 PM  

Stoker: The other is redacted, I try for perfection...

[img41.imageshack.us image 650x497]


Which is funny, because for all the Sturm und Drang about how terrible this bill is, essentially, the insurance industry is quibbling on percentage points of profit, and risking Americans to question if we really need them at all...
 
2014-01-01 11:51:57 PM  

Stoker: The other is redacted, I try for perfection...

[img41.imageshack.us image 650x497]


You should get together with the other guy who says that insurance companies are dropping people and leaving the states because of the ACA.
 
2014-01-01 11:55:43 PM  
OneBrightMonkey:

Thanks for the article. I've been hearing quite a bit that the least populated states are seeking the most pronounced sticker shock due to lack of competition amongst providers.
Wouldn't it be one the great ironies of history if all the small states like Vermont and Mississippi pooled their residents to increase purchasing power on each's collective exchanges - a confederacy if you will.
This is exactly why each small state exchange needed to have a public option alternative. I hold out hope that such as option will start being introduced by state legislatures.

 
Vermont has already made moves in that direction.  The goal is universal health care for all residents by 2017.
 
2014-01-02 12:53:57 AM  
Arachnophobe: Endometriosis and ovarian cysts aren't physical, medical problems?

Well, if you're going to get all liberal and think of women as people...
 
2014-01-02 02:00:32 AM  

Elfich: Serious Black: TV's Vinnie: FlashHarry: remember: to republicans, this is literally worse than hitler, stalin and al qaeda combined.

You forgot to add Sauron, Voldemort, and Davros as well.

I haven't been able to break out this overkill of a list in awhile...

Authoritarian Collectivist Dictator-for-life and PresiDebt BaReefer HUSSEIN Fartbama al-Chicago is more evil than the combined evil of Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Vladmir Lenin, Josef Stalin, Josef Mengele, Vlad the Impaler, Emperor Hirohito, Ivan the Terrible, King Leopold II, Idi Amin, the Ayatollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Attila the Hun, Elizabeth Bathory, Irma Grese, Queen Isabella, Timothy McVeigh, James Holmes, Anders Breivik, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, the Zodiac Killer, Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert Fish, Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine, Lord Voldemort, Sauron, Hannibal Lecter, Vito and Michael Corleone, Nurse Ratched, Joffrey Baratheon, Aerys Targaryan, Magneto, Lex Luthor, the Joker, Galactus, Thanos, Davros, the Master, Rassilon, Cthulhu, Beelzebub, and Satan all tetrated to the hyperpower of Graham's number.

Where are the Kingpin, Doctor Doom, Arioch and Torak?


Torak was a meany. I wonder what the Orb would do to Obama..
 
2014-01-02 02:01:26 AM  
Jgok:
Most Expensive
Bronze $10 Copay POS Plan  by CoventryOne (BronzePOS)


I can't be the only person misreading that acronym.
It means "point of service"?  Yeahhh, sure it does, buddy...
 
2014-01-02 11:17:45 AM  

Fart_Machine: Stoker: The other is redacted, I try for perfection...

[img41.imageshack.us image 650x497]

You should get together with the other guy who says that insurance companies are dropping people and leaving the states because of the ACA.

-=-
It's a game they play to get themselves better premiums and higher deductibles. They will win some profitable compromise in the end.
 
2014-01-02 12:09:04 PM  
Too bad Obama Care does little to actually improve the medical care in this country.  Doesn't add one doctor or nurse just more adds people into the middleman scam known insurance.
 
2014-01-02 12:43:48 PM  

flynn80: Too bad Obama Care does little to actually improve the medical care in this country.  Doesn't add one doctor or nurse just more adds people into the middleman scam known insurance.


It's too bad that just by passing a bill in congress we cannot cure cancer.

Even if we could, I suppose the Republicans would filibuster it.
 
2014-01-02 08:14:33 PM  

flynn80: Too bad Obama Care does little to actually improve the medical care in this country.  Doesn't add one doctor or nurse just more adds people into the middleman scam known insurance.


You realize that many people do not get any preventative care or followup care due to lack of insurance, right.
 
2014-01-02 08:49:12 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: flynn80: Too bad Obama Care does little to actually improve the medical care in this country.  Doesn't add one doctor or nurse just more adds people into the middleman scam known insurance.

You realize that many people do not get any preventative care or followup care due to lack of insurance, right.


I think our Beamish Poster means is that ObamaCare doesn't immediately refit the entire industry with Fallout New Vegas AutoDocs from the Big MT, and thus without those unit being crated to every hospital and doctor's office, he has NOT automated the process to cut out that pesky "middleman" of they physician with the "healing force" that those units tap into, much like Barry Allen taps into the Speed Force, and thus put us behind the Red Chinese who are using that technology, along with their Stealth Armor and insidious sleeper agents slipped into our soft drink factories. Thus, Obama is a failure, and should be immediately put down, and a general election held immediately to choose a leader who WILL approve such legislation...
 
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