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(The Raw Story)   You're an internationally renowned flautist from Canada who lovingly crafts your flutes by hand. U.S. Customs officials: These are made of wood, which makes them agricultural products and therefore must be destroyed   (rawstory.com) divider line 313
    More: Asinine, U.S. Customs, customs officer, Measuring instrument, virtuoso, Canadian citizen, disc injury, John F. Kennedy International Airport  
•       •       •

14354 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jan 2014 at 11:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



313 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-01 11:47:51 AM  
HUh huh huh, "wood."
 
2014-01-01 11:47:53 AM  
Nuttin new here, move along.
This is a long time problem, hardly the first episode.
Flautist was equally stupid or probably knew good and well what would happen.
 
2014-01-01 11:47:55 AM  

oldernell: That's why they're called WOODwinds.I wonder what they would do about bagpipes.


s2.dmcdn.net

He put up a fight granny, but clean living prevailed!
 
2014-01-01 11:48:15 AM  

redmid17: Meanwhile nothing in the US CBP guidelines mentions wood at all:

http://cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/clearing/agri_prod_inus.xml

I suppose it could be under "other biological material" but that would is completely dead and maybe sealed. Anyone got a particular reason why CBP would destroy these?


Well found some stuff:

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1166

Finished, manufactured, or naturally weathered products including carvings, driftwood, furniture, picture frames, and musical instruments, and plywood are allowed into the U.S., but you need to declare them so the items can be inspected by CBP.

So it looks like they destroyed his flutes for no reason and probably violated their own rules in doing so.
 
2014-01-01 11:48:36 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: Rigger1955: The Pope of Manwich Village: This is not a very poplar law.

Not much point birching about it, though.

Beech, beech, beech.


He should have told customs to kiss his ash
 
2014-01-01 11:49:52 AM  
Canadians. Sheesh.

songofmypeople.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-01 11:51:35 AM  

edmo: So much for traveling with my guitar.

Seriously, I'm with the "These guys are assholes" crowd here and you "it's the law" types should just go back to your bedrooms and let the NSA continue filming you or whatever.


If it's a Gibson, I don't blame you.  Must suck to to know that your guitar is subject to destruction at the border because it looks really cool with the ebony.  http://www.guitarworld.com/gibson-agrees-pay-350000-penalties-loses-s e ized-imported-ebony
 
2014-01-01 11:51:55 AM  

pueblonative: r1niceboy: RussianPooper: pueblonative: It's almost as if you have to consult customs laws when you travel abroad.

Only 4 posts to get to the asshole apologist.

If there's one thing about natives of pueblos, they certainly know how to be submissive to the point of Ned Beatty.

Here's a experiment: go to another country bringing prohibited items and try out the "I didn't know the laws" excuse while asserting your rights and screaming about the fairness of the situation.  Then come back and tell us how many turkish prison cell rapes you experienced.


I've been to lots of countries, none of which took perverse pleasure in enforcing asinine laws. Now, please, explain the harm that a carved piece of wood could do. Please feel free to compare it to, say, a species of invasive fish.
 
2014-01-01 11:52:08 AM  

The Pope of Manwich Village: This is not a very poplar law.


Thanks, Obamboo.
 
2014-01-01 11:52:25 AM  

pueblonative: r1niceboy: RussianPooper: pueblonative: It's almost as if you have to consult customs laws when you travel abroad.

Only 4 posts to get to the asshole apologist.

If there's one thing about natives of pueblos, they certainly know how to be submissive to the point of Ned Beatty.

Here's a experiment: go to another country bringing prohibited items and try out the "I didn't know the laws" excuse while asserting your rights and screaming about the fairness of the situation.  Then come back and tell us how many turkish prison cell rapes you experienced.


https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1166

Finished, manufactured, or naturally weathered products including carvings, driftwood, furniture, picture frames, and musical instruments, and plywood are allowed into the U.S., but you need to declare them so the items can be inspected by CBP.

Also checked this: the USDA wood import guidelines  http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/manuals/ports/download s /miscellaneous.pdf

didn't find anything there either
 
2014-01-01 11:54:11 AM  

r1niceboy: pueblonative: r1niceboy: RussianPooper: pueblonative: It's almost as if you have to consult customs laws when you travel abroad.

Only 4 posts to get to the asshole apologist.

If there's one thing about natives of pueblos, they certainly know how to be submissive to the point of Ned Beatty.

Here's a experiment: go to another country bringing prohibited items and try out the "I didn't know the laws" excuse while asserting your rights and screaming about the fairness of the situation.  Then come back and tell us how many turkish prison cell rapes you experienced.

I've been to lots of countries, none of which took perverse pleasure in enforcing asinine laws. Now, please, explain the harm that a carved piece of wood could do. Please feel free to compare it to, say, a species of invasive fish.


Maybe it had been to band camp and smelled like fish
 
2014-01-01 11:54:11 AM  
images01.olx.com

Agricultural products...
 
2014-01-01 11:54:15 AM  
God Bless America in all its glorious idiocy.
 
2014-01-01 11:55:47 AM  
Considering the source of the story is RawSewage, I'm sure there is more to this story.
 
2014-01-01 11:55:55 AM  
Just play the song of time backwards and go back tO 3 days before you took the flight
 
2014-01-01 11:56:00 AM  

pueblonative: r1niceboy: RussianPooper: pueblonative:

Here's a experiment: go to another country bringing prohibited items and try out the "I didn't know the laws" excuse while asserting your rights and screaming about the fairness of the situation.  Then come back and tell us how many turkish prison cell rapes you experienced.


So TSA gets to pretend the U.S. is Turkey? Seriously. You guys used to be cool.

TSA are out of control. The rest of the world knows it, most of your citizens know it, and you should probably wake up to it sparky.
 
2014-01-01 11:58:03 AM  
If we have all learned anything at all in 2013*, it is that any story someone tells on the Internet is completely true exactly as told and there is no further information that could be of any use no matter what, ever, so there.

*also 2012, 2011, 2010. But not 2009 - buncha dirty liars the lot of 'em.
 
2014-01-01 11:58:11 AM  

voodoohotdog: So TSA gets to pretend the U.S. is Turkey?


TSA != Customs.
 
2014-01-01 11:58:47 AM  

Odoriferous Queef: Considering the source of the story is RawSewage, I'm sure there is more to this story.


it's not hard to find another source y'know.

http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2013/12/outrage-at-jfk-as-cus to ms-men-smash-flutes.html
 
2014-01-01 11:59:42 AM  

redmid17: Meanwhile nothing in the US CBP guidelines mentions wood at all:

http://cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/clearing/agri_prod_inus.xml

I suppose it could be under "other biological material" but that would is completely dead and maybe sealed. Anyone got a particular reason why CBP would destroy these?


You didn't look very hard....  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacey_Act_of_1900
 
2014-01-01 12:00:14 PM  

ParaHandy: US CBP prides themselves on being assholes, even to USC's


Only when the USCs are assholes to the US CBP.  I've never had a problem with them, and they've never had a problem with me.
 
2014-01-01 12:00:18 PM  
FTA: Razgui also told Lebrecht that, as a non-citizen, he was reluctant to confront U.S. Customs officials.
You don't say?
 
2014-01-01 12:00:29 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Barbarians at the gates.


static2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-01-01 12:01:37 PM  

g4lt: redmid17: Meanwhile nothing in the US CBP guidelines mentions wood at all:

http://cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/clearing/agri_prod_inus.xml

I suppose it could be under "other biological material" but that would is completely dead and maybe sealed. Anyone got a particular reason why CBP would destroy these?

You didn't look very hard....  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacey_Act_of_1900


Now explain how the Lacey Act of 1900, which isn't new or unknown to me, would affect this particular "import of wood" given that none of it is alive and is actually permitted under CBP guidelines?

I'll wait.
 
2014-01-01 12:01:52 PM  

WTFDYW: Might have something to do with the Emerald Ash Borer. We're not even allowed to haul firewood from one county to another in most areas.


Quit speaking the truth here.  Most posters appear to enjoy bashing the workers as opposed to seeking the truth.
 
2014-01-01 12:02:22 PM  
img.photobucket.com

excuse me, are those flutes made out of.... wood?
 
2014-01-01 12:02:49 PM  
Shouldn't this sort of decision have been made by Customs, not the TSA?
 
2014-01-01 12:03:16 PM  

Crid: Shouldn't this sort of decision have been made by Customs, not the TSA?


It was.
 
2014-01-01 12:03:53 PM  

redmid17: Meanwhile nothing in the US CBP guidelines mentions wood at all:

http://cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/clearing/agri_prod_inus.xml

I suppose it could be under "other biological material" but that would is completely dead and maybe sealed. Anyone got a particular reason why CBP would destroy these?


Possible pest contamination due to not being properly finished or fumigated.  If you don't have the paperwork to show that the wood has been treated, the wood may not be permitted into the country.
 
2014-01-01 12:05:00 PM  

Crid: Shouldn't this sort of decision have been made by Customs, not the TSA?


Customs did call it. They out-TSAed the TSA in douchebaggery.
 
2014-01-01 12:05:08 PM  
They destroy harmless flutes but give a free pass to vuvuzelas? This is an outrage!
 
2014-01-01 12:05:09 PM  
The solution to out-of-control government is more government.
 
2014-01-01 12:05:29 PM  

voodoohotdog: pueblonative: r1niceboy: RussianPooper: pueblonative:

Here's a experiment: go to another country bringing prohibited items and try out the "I didn't know the laws" excuse while asserting your rights and screaming about the fairness of the situation.  Then come back and tell us how many turkish prison cell rapes you experienced.

So TSA gets to pretend the U.S. is Turkey? Seriously. You guys used to be cool.

TSA are

USA is out of control. The rest of the world knows it, most of your citizens know it, and you should probably wake up to it sparky.

More better.
 
2014-01-01 12:06:50 PM  
It does appear that the TSA agents where correct.  Agricultural products must be destroyed.....if the person who wishes to fly is a p*ssy and is too dumb to mail his precious goods.  He DID have options.   TSA is right about some things...stop the witch hunt.
 
2014-01-01 12:07:05 PM  

r1niceboy: pueblonative: r1niceboy: RussianPooper: pueblonative: It's almost as if you have to consult customs laws when you travel abroad.

Only 4 posts to get to the asshole apologist.

If there's one thing about natives of pueblos, they certainly know how to be submissive to the point of Ned Beatty.

Here's a experiment: go to another country bringing prohibited items and try out the "I didn't know the laws" excuse while asserting your rights and screaming about the fairness of the situation.  Then come back and tell us how many turkish prison cell rapes you experienced.

I've been to lots of countries, none of which took perverse pleasure in enforcing asinine laws. Now, please, explain the harm that a carved piece of wood could do. Please feel free to compare it to, say, a species of invasive fish.


http://www.emeraldashborer.info/#sthash.dZwYnM8p.dpbs

http://www.ohiochapterisa.org/news/87453/
 
2014-01-01 12:07:57 PM  
 
2014-01-01 12:09:24 PM  

Brosephus: r1niceboy: pueblonative: r1niceboy: RussianPooper: pueblonative: It's almost as if you have to consult customs laws when you travel abroad.

Only 4 posts to get to the asshole apologist.

If there's one thing about natives of pueblos, they certainly know how to be submissive to the point of Ned Beatty.

Here's a experiment: go to another country bringing prohibited items and try out the "I didn't know the laws" excuse while asserting your rights and screaming about the fairness of the situation.  Then come back and tell us how many turkish prison cell rapes you experienced.

I've been to lots of countries, none of which took perverse pleasure in enforcing asinine laws. Now, please, explain the harm that a carved piece of wood could do. Please feel free to compare it to, say, a species of invasive fish.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/#sthash.dZwYnM8p.dpbs

http://www.ohiochapterisa.org/news/87453/


How exactly would it be difficult for CBP to examine carved wooden flutes for the presence of beetles? It's not as if they were being brought into the country by truck because they weighed several tons.
 
2014-01-01 12:09:25 PM  
After the guy realized his flutes were being destroyed, did he cry out an F6 with trill and heavy vibrato?
 
2014-01-01 12:09:57 PM  
asset.soup.ioobligatory
 
2014-01-01 12:10:46 PM  
WTF is a flaut?
 
2014-01-01 12:11:02 PM  

pueblonative: It's almost as if you have to consult customs laws when you travel abroad.


bullshiat. It is perfectly legal to carry instruments made from wood in and out of the country, they are not "agricultural products", the custom officials were WRONG. What's more, you should be outraged that this kind of crap is becoming common place(and being done in your name) and Razgui should sue.
 
2014-01-01 12:11:06 PM  

TemporarySanity: Odoriferous Queef: Considering the source of the story is RawSewage, I'm sure there is more to this story.

it's not hard to find another source y'know.

http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2013/12/outrage-at-jfk-as-cus to ms-men-smash-flutes.html


And a very well written article including points of view of both the artist and the customs officials who destroyed these flutes. . .oh wait.
 
2014-01-01 12:11:54 PM  
Well if he makes his own flutes, can't he just make more?
 
2014-01-01 12:12:40 PM  

Voiceofreason01: pueblonative: It's almost as if you have to consult customs laws when you travel abroad.

bullshiat. It is perfectly legal to carry instruments made from wood in and out of the country, they are not "agricultural products", the custom officials were WRONG. What's more, you should be outraged that this kind of crap is becoming common place(and being done in your name) and Razgui should sue.


Didn't know we had a Fark Lawyer on.  Please give your bar number and the cite of the law that states this.
 
2014-01-01 12:14:02 PM  

redmid17: Finished, manufactured, or naturally weathered products including carvings, driftwood, furniture, picture frames, and musical instruments, and plywood are allowed into the U.S., but you need to declare them so the items can be inspected by CBP.

So it looks like they destroyed his flutes for no reason and probably violated their own rules in doing so.



'I told them I had these instruments for many years and flew with them in and out,' he said. 'There were 11 instruments in all. They told me they were agricultural products and they had to be destroyed. There was nothing I could do. The ney flute can be made with bamboo. Is that agricultural?'
Bouzemaa was both upset and unwilling to risk a confrontation with the US authorities.  We did not press him for further particulars. He does not know what to do next. But he does appear to be the victim of state injustice. What do the lawyers among our readers think he should do?

http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2013/12/jfk-customs-destroyed -1 1-of-my-instruments.html

I bolded the important part for you, it seems like the guy never declared the items.  He then never argued so they probably assumed he didn't care much about them so they took them.

Look people I know we don't want to have to declare shiat and have people digging into our suitcases but if you don't this can happen.  I've never declared my alcohol and shiat when I come back but if they catch me they will take it and I wont sit here and biatch about people doing their job when I wasn't willing to fill out the stupid form that would allow me to just walk in with the stuff.
 
2014-01-01 12:15:41 PM  
Bush's fault.
 
2014-01-01 12:15:41 PM  

redmid17: g4lt: redmid17: Meanwhile nothing in the US CBP guidelines mentions wood at all:

http://cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/clearing/agri_prod_inus.xml

I suppose it could be under "other biological material" but that would is completely dead and maybe sealed. Anyone got a particular reason why CBP would destroy these?

You didn't look very hard....  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacey_Act_of_1900

Now explain how the Lacey Act of 1900, which isn't new or unknown to me, would affect this particular "import of wood" given that none of it is alive and is actually permitted under CBP guidelines?

I'll wait.


Oh, I don't know, how about the entirety of section 8204, the section that gets its own special webpage at CBP?  Just because you weren't aware of things doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
2014-01-01 12:17:16 PM  
Rules are rules. Just followin' the rules.
 
2014-01-01 12:19:00 PM  

oldernell: That's why they're called WOODwinds.I wonder what they would do about bagpipes.


If they're old enough, they get seized because of the ivory fittings.
 
2014-01-01 12:19:04 PM  

pueblonative: Voiceofreason01: pueblonative: It's almost as if you have to consult customs laws when you travel abroad.

bullshiat. It is perfectly legal to carry instruments made from wood in and out of the country, they are not "agricultural products", the custom officials were WRONG. What's more, you should be outraged that this kind of crap is becoming common place(and being done in your name) and Razgui should sue.

Didn't know we had a Fark Lawyer on.  Please give your bar number and the cite of the law that states this.


Well there is their own website...

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1166
 
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