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(UPI)   The 4th Amendment protects you from all unreasonable searches and seizures* (*Not valid in all 50 states, void where prohibited, check individual borders where applicable)   (upi.com) divider line 165
    More: Asinine, amendments, Eastern District of New York, U.S., Islamic studies, reasonable suspicion  
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12813 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jan 2014 at 11:06 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-01 09:59:51 AM  
The cops stealing all your money without a warrant is not unreasonable any more.
 
2014-01-01 10:13:48 AM  
Such searches are rare, with "about a 1 in a million chance"

3.bp.blogspot.com

/that works on so many levels
//ok, two levels
 
2014-01-01 10:27:00 AM  
misleading headline is misleading.
 
2014-01-01 10:34:12 AM  
Homeland Security spokesman Peter Boogaard said, "These checks are essential to enforcing the law, and protecting national security and public safety, always with the shared goals of protecting the American people while respecting civil rights and civil liberties."

static.fjcdn.com
 
2014-01-01 10:37:35 AM  
People aren't as batshiat scared and therefore as willing to hand over their rights as they were immediately after 9/11. They're eventually going to.....oh who am I kidding, Duck Dynasty's on. What was I saying?
 
2014-01-01 11:02:36 AM  

Mugato: Such searches are rare, with "about a 1 in a million chance"

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 320x231]

/that works on so many levels
//ok, two levels


img.fark.net
 
2014-01-01 11:02:55 AM  
Border agents being able to search you, your vehicle and possessions without a warrant when crossing an international border is nothing new. It happens each and every day at every international airport, seaport and land crossing.
 
2014-01-01 11:04:46 AM  
I can certainly understand the desire to inspect certain people's hard drives.

www.thesocialsecrets.com

What if she had some BIE? Must inspect all such files and make sure that nothing is incriminating.
 
2014-01-01 11:10:18 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: The cops stealing all your money without a warrant is not unreasonable any more.


Ronald Reagan launched the greatest assault on property rights since the Civil War, and so-called Small Gubment Conservatives continue to worship him.
 
2014-01-01 11:10:55 AM  

dustman81: Border agents being able to search you, your vehicle and possessions without a warrant when crossing an international border is nothing new. It happens each and every day at every international airport, seaport and land crossing.


Them taking your laptop until they are done copying it kind of is. Also I'm a bit more concerned why they felt the need to handcuff a US citizen and place him in a room for no articulable reason for several hours. I'm not real worried about what happens to the contents of my laptop while I travel. It's completely encrypted and I'm not handing over the password. I don't like what happened and hope the ACLU lawsuit gets successfully appealed, but I'm just more concerned with how CBP is becoming more and more thuggish as we go along.
 
2014-01-01 11:11:24 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: The cops stealing all your money without a warrant is not unreasonable any more.


Individual rights are no longer politically fashionable, Citizen.

Your compliance is compulsory and appreciated.
 
2014-01-01 11:12:08 AM  
In case you were wondering about the "London Firefighters urge common sense after Penis Freed From Toaster story, on the same page.
 
2014-01-01 11:14:42 AM  
Customs has pretty much always had the ability to go through your stuff.  This is just keeping up with the digital age.
 
2014-01-01 11:14:48 AM  
So when can we have a serious talk about secession without bringing racism / slavery up?
 
2014-01-01 11:15:34 AM  
Lovely. UPI is copypasting paranoid drivel from Infowars now?
 
2014-01-01 11:16:00 AM  

redmid17: dustman81: Border agents being able to search you, your vehicle and possessions without a warrant when crossing an international border is nothing new. It happens each and every day at every international airport, seaport and land crossing.

Them taking your laptop until they are done copying it kind of is. Also I'm a bit more concerned why they felt the need to handcuff a US citizen and place him in a room for no articulable reason for several hours. I'm not real worried about what happens to the contents of my laptop while I travel. It's completely encrypted and I'm not handing over the password. I don't like what happened and hope the ACLU lawsuit gets successfully appealed, but I'm just more concerned with how CBP is becoming more and more thuggish as we go along.


Well, it was already well-established that 4A rights don 't really exist at border crossings. Applying that to the individual circumstances is annoying and all, but this result was obvious and predictable, and the court was correctly applying Supreme Court precedent.
 
2014-01-01 11:16:02 AM  
For anyone who is curious, here is some more info from the ACLU on the case:

https://www.aclu.org/free-speech-technology-and-liberty/abidor-v-nap ol itano

Here is a very similar case where the government basically admitted it was wrong after a similar lawsuit.

https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/house-v-napolitano
 
2014-01-01 11:16:46 AM  
It's ok. He prays to the wrong god.
 
2014-01-01 11:17:31 AM  
Such searches are rare, with "about a 10 in a million chance" of happening, so "there is not a substantial risk"

TEN in a million?  So, in other words, 1 in a 100,000?  Yeah, let us increase the numbers and make it seem like such a trivial thing.
 
2014-01-01 11:18:29 AM  

detritus: So when can we have a serious talk about secession without bringing racism / slavery up?


Of course not. If you criticize the purple drank messiah or the administration, you're an inbred hick. Get with the pogrom.
 
2014-01-01 11:18:36 AM  

redmid17: It's completely encrypted and I'm not handing over the password.


Good thing the NSA isn't installing bypass firmware in laptops, right?
 
2014-01-01 11:18:54 AM  

Verrai: redmid17: dustman81: Border agents being able to search you, your vehicle and possessions without a warrant when crossing an international border is nothing new. It happens each and every day at every international airport, seaport and land crossing.

Them taking your laptop until they are done copying it kind of is. Also I'm a bit more concerned why they felt the need to handcuff a US citizen and place him in a room for no articulable reason for several hours. I'm not real worried about what happens to the contents of my laptop while I travel. It's completely encrypted and I'm not handing over the password. I don't like what happened and hope the ACLU lawsuit gets successfully appealed, but I'm just more concerned with how CBP is becoming more and more thuggish as we go along.

Well, it was already well-established that 4A rights don 't really exist at border crossings. Applying that to the individual circumstances is annoying and all, but this result was obvious and predictable, and the court was correctly applying Supreme Court precedent.


I'm well aware of the border exception. What I really don't like is the government using it as a backdoor to go on a fishing expedition to find *something.* Reasonable suspicion is not a hard barrier to reach, and the alternatives are just ripe for abuse. The government actually caved on an issue like this around 6 months ago.

https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/house-v-napolitano 
 
2014-01-01 11:20:21 AM  

pueblonative: redmid17: It's completely encrypted and I'm not handing over the password.

Good thing the NSA isn't installing bypass firmware in laptops, right?


Look if I'm already on the NSA's watch list enough to be targeted to have customized spyware firmware, I'm kind of hosed. I doubt that at this point, so the NSA flame thread I'd love to participate in can wait for another day. Needless to say the NSA is pissing me off a lot these days too.
 
2014-01-01 11:20:46 AM  

Mock26: Such searches are rare, with "about a 10 in a million chance" of happening, so "there is not a substantial risk"

TEN in a million?  So, in other words, 1 in a 100,000?  Yeah, let us increase the numbers and make it seem like such a trivial thing.


b.vimeocdn.com
 
2014-01-01 11:21:01 AM  
Keep tightening those screws. Thanks Patriot Act.

People still think 9-11 was a committed by 'Arab terrorists'?
 
2014-01-01 11:21:31 AM  

dustman81: Border agents being able to search you, your vehicle and possessions without a warrant when crossing an international border is nothing new. It happens each and every day at every international airport, seaport and land crossing.


As a resident of Michigan I used to cross over the boarder into Canada a few times a year. All I ever had to do was show them my driver's license, tell them it was for pleasure(you could drink legally at 19 in the strip clubs in Windsor), and I was on my way.

Now, not so much.

But I feel much safer..............sigh.
 
2014-01-01 11:21:41 AM  
"there is not a substantial risk"

Wrong. You just green-lighted these searches. There will now be thousands of them.
 
2014-01-01 11:23:01 AM  
This is just another step towards the perpetual surveillance state. There is really no legitimate reason to copy data. And this falls more into seizure than just plain searching. Yes the Border exemption to the search warrant rule has long been accepted as allowable, but only in regards to actual physical property. Searching for drugs, guns, slaves, etc. Data is none of those. There is no officer safety issue here, and there is no probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion, that a crime has been committed.

FTA "
"searches at our borders without probable cause and without a warrant are nonetheless 'reasonable.'

Also consider that it has been established, thanks in large part to the efforts of the RIAA, that copying data can be akin to stealing. A copy of intellectual property still belongs to the creator. When the border guards make a copy of your files, they areseizing those files in the form of duplicates. It's not just a search. It's seizure. And a logical argument cannot be made that theConstitutionallowedpossessions to just be randomlyseized without even reasonable suspicion.

Yes the Border exemption grants some extra leeway to protect the US, but really just in regards to searching. The actual taking of property is another step, and too far of a step IMO, particularly with zero reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

\Cop in a norther border state
\\Soon to be cop in a southern border state
 
2014-01-01 11:24:25 AM  

Godscrack: Keep tightening those screws. Thanks Patriot Act.

People still think 9-11 was a committed by 'Arab terrorists'?


www.presentationresources.netwww.blogcdn.compaybuy.com.ua
 
2014-01-01 11:24:28 AM  
And I don't care how rare it is. Trampling the Constitutional Rights of 1 citizen in a million is still trampling the Rights of a citizen. Unacceptable.
 
2014-01-01 11:25:54 AM  
"Pascal Abidor, an Islamic studies scholar"

And that answers my question

I was outraged up until this point
 
2014-01-01 11:26:36 AM  

taurusowner: And I don't care how rare it is. Trampling the Constitutional Rights of 1 citizen in a million is still trampling the Rights of a citizen. Unacceptable.


You really need to get a better car.
 
2014-01-01 11:27:11 AM  
thamike:
[www.presentationresources.net image 145x287][www.blogcdn.com image 450x343][paybuy.com.ua image 600x600]

Wow look at that mouth. Is that your bedtime toy?
 
2014-01-01 11:27:35 AM  
Judges spend more time explaining why the 4th amendment doesn't apply then they do applying  it. Welcome to the American justice system
 
2014-01-01 11:28:24 AM  

smerfnablin: "Pascal Abidor, an Islamic studies scholar"

And that answers my question

I was outraged up until this point


Sure you were. Go troll somewhere else.
 
2014-01-01 11:32:10 AM  
HaHa, you are all so farked!
 
2014-01-01 11:37:16 AM  

Godscrack: thamike:
[www.presentationresources.net image 145x287][www.blogcdn.com image 450x343][paybuy.com.ua image 600x600]

Wow look at that mouth. Is that your bedtime toy?


Wouldn't you like to know?
 
2014-01-01 11:38:46 AM  

duffblue: detritus: So when can we have a serious talk about secession without bringing racism / slavery up?

Of course not. If you criticize the purple drank messiah or the administration, you're an inbred hick. Get with the pogrom.


It is always so nice when you prove your own comment.
 
2014-01-01 11:39:50 AM  
The terrorists have won. Too bad the terrorists are the people in control of your country.
 
2014-01-01 11:42:54 AM  

mike_d85: It's ok. He prays to the wrong god.


Actually he prays to the right G-d, just in the wrong way.

/though Christians who would cheer on this man's tempoary detention and seizure of laptop docs would say the same about me too!
//They also wouldn't admit that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same G-d
 
2014-01-01 11:43:45 AM  
It becomes a lot scarier when you realize that "the border" extends 100 miles inland from the coasts as well as 100 miles in from any international border. There is a handy dandy map in this link. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/10/aclu-assails-10/

Notice that San Francisco, LA, San Diego, Washington D.C., New York, and other major cities fall within this 4th Amendment-free zone. Not that they will because they are an honest organization protecting U.S. citizens from terrorists but hypothetically the Department of Homeland Security could set up a "border checkpoint" in NYC and go through belongings, seize electronics, etc without probable cause.
 
2014-01-01 11:44:25 AM  
So, what happens if I have a bunch of copyrighted movies and music that I have purchased on my computer, and they copy/ seize them?

Can I get in trouble for illegal distribution of copyrighted works? Can I report them to the RIAA/ MPAA for illegally copying the materials?

OK wait, there is some guy in a Rocky costume boxing with a stuffed cow on my TV right now. I think something's wrong... Not sure if it's a stroke or New Years day.
 
2014-01-01 11:45:03 AM  

taurusowner: This is just another step towards the perpetual surveillance state. There is really no legitimate reason to copy data. And this falls more into seizure than just plain searching. Yes the Border exemption to the search warrant rule has long been accepted as allowable, but only in regards to actual physical property. Searching for drugs, guns, slaves, etc. Data is none of those. There is no officer safety issue here, and there is no probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion, that a crime has been committed.

FTA ""searches at our borders without probable cause and without a warrant are nonetheless 'reasonable.'

Also consider that it has been established, thanks in large part to the efforts of the RIAA, that copying data can be akin to stealing. A copy of intellectual property still belongs to the creator. When the border guards make a copy of your files, they areseizing those files in the form of duplicates. It's not just a search. It's seizure. And a logical argument cannot be made that theConstitutionallowedpossessions to just be randomlyseized without even reasonable suspicion.

Yes the Border exemption grants some extra leeway to protect the US, but really just in regards to searching. The actual taking of property is another step, and too far of a step IMO, particularly with zero reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

\Cop in a norther border state
\\Soon to be cop in a southern border state


Are y'all aware of just how big that "border" is?  http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/10/aclu-assails-10/
 
2014-01-01 11:47:56 AM  
"1 in 10 million..."

well not anymore. Now that the judge has ruled this constitutional, I'm sure this will happen more.
 
2014-01-01 11:52:03 AM  

AgentPothead: The terrorists have won. Too bad the terrorists are the people in control of your country.


Thanks Obama.
 
2014-01-01 11:52:59 AM  

alexjoss: Judges spend more time explaining why the 4th amendment doesn't apply then they do applying  it. Welcome to the American justice system



Many judges are also former prosecutors, so it isn't necessarily surprising that once on the bench they become whores for the state.
 
2014-01-01 11:53:45 AM  
Thank you Obama, Bush, Clinton, Daddy Bush, & Reagan.

/ I may have left a few out.

/ Knew when they named it 'Homeland Security', we were in deep s#it.
 
2014-01-01 11:57:18 AM  
Now, what if some of those files are trade secrets or protected material (like the head of engineering from Detroit going to Toronto for an auto show) and that information is compromised because the border agents just put it in a dump server?
 
2014-01-01 11:57:57 AM  

Road Rash: taurusowner: This is just another step towards the perpetual surveillance state. There is really no legitimate reason to copy data. And this falls more into seizure than just plain searching. Yes the Border exemption to the search warrant rule has long been accepted as allowable, but only in regards to actual physical property. Searching for drugs, guns, slaves, etc. Data is none of those. There is no officer safety issue here, and there is no probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion, that a crime has been committed.

FTA ""searches at our borders without probable cause and without a warrant are nonetheless 'reasonable.'

Also consider that it has been established, thanks in large part to the efforts of the RIAA, that copying data can be akin to stealing. A copy of intellectual property still belongs to the creator. When the border guards make a copy of your files, they areseizing those files in the form of duplicates. It's not just a search. It's seizure. And a logical argument cannot be made that theConstitutionallowedpossessions to just be randomlyseized without even reasonable suspicion.

Yes the Border exemption grants some extra leeway to protect the US, but really just in regards to searching. The actual taking of property is another step, and too far of a step IMO, particularly with zero reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

\Cop in a norther border state
\\Soon to be cop in a southern border state

Are y'all aware of just how big that "border" is?  http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/10/aclu-assails-10/


While I am very leery of that 100 miles exception, that ACLU map is a bit off. For example they are using Lake Michigan as a border area, which it's not, and treating international airports as if they give a carte blanche to search anyone within 100 miles of them. The CBP can't search outside of airport grounds. That said, yes it is terrifying, albeit not really new, how widely these "border areas' go.
 
2014-01-01 11:59:36 AM  

Archimedes' Principal: Thank you Obama, Bush, Clinton, Daddy Bush, & Reagan.

/ I may have left a few out.

/ Knew when they named it 'Homeland Security', we were in deep s#it.


Nixon started the entire war on drugs. Carter didn't do anything to stop it.
 
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