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(WTAE)   Gun shop owner killed in shooting at store on New Year's Eve. If only he'd had a gu-... wait, what? A gun store and taxidermy shop out of a house? What is this, I don't even. I'm hung over and need a drink now. Happy new year   (wtae.com) divider line 158
    More: Weird, New Year's Eve, Indiana counties, owner killed, firearms  
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4057 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jan 2014 at 8:00 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-01 10:31:20 AM  

Giltric: It is not a citation.


It is a bias, bigotry, foolishness....maybe even trolling.

Your call.

pick your own epithet....


Said the man defending a guy who's livelyhood was selling killing devices and then ghoolishly creating trophies from the bodies of those slain.  You asked for cites and yet you can't even prove this isn't what he did, even after reading the article where the journalist confirmed these things.  Death merchant:  Nothing of value was lost.
 
2014-01-01 10:32:27 AM  

pueblonative: AngryDragon: If you think that you can't be a victim of violent crime anywhere at anytime, or that law enforcement can protect you, you're delusional.

I've managed to live 35 years without being the victim of a violent crime, so that's one heck of a delusion.  I have no desire to have a gun or use a gun.  They're costly and I have better things to spend my time and money on.  But if I did, I'd want to make sure that the system made sure I was properly checked out and trained on how to use that weapon.  They made sure I had training before I got my driver's license, and a car isn't designed to kill anybody on purpose.  I'd also want to make sure that if somebody was mentally ill or considered a threat that the law could at least remove the danger that he or she is to other people in society with those guns.  Yeah, yeah, I know; he'll get his gun anyway by stealing it from a responsible gun owner who left it outside of the safe or he'll just use a lawnmower or a hammer to kill people.


Look, I agree that a background check is necessary for the legal purchase of a firearm.  The VAST majority of firearm crime is committed by people who acquired it illegally which means that additional restrictions on law abiding citizens are pointless.  You acknowledge that as well.  In the last 10 years, MILLIONS of civilians have started to carry firearms.  The violent crime rate has not gone up.  The simple fact is that law abiding citizens carrying firearms is simply not a problem.

Treat mental illness, address education and poverty, make people who commit crimes with firearms sit in jail forever, then you will do something about gun violence.
 
2014-01-01 10:32:46 AM  

pueblonative: Giltric: pueblonative: I'd also want to make sure that if somebody was mentally ill or considered a threat that the law could at least remove the danger that he or she is to other people in society with those guns.

So you aren't really aware of the current laws that exist and you insist on even more laws that do the same thing that other laws do simply because you are ignorant of the law.


Is that a decent summation?

Because that is like 90% of the pro gun control crowd.

Yeah, it worked so well with James Holmes, didn't it.


His shrink was aware of what was going on, there were warning signs....but they never took the proper steps to report them....same with Cho..same with Laughner....Lanzas mom was trying to do something about her crazy kid but she did not do enough.

Who do you feel should have been responsible for reporting his behavior to the proper authorities?  Do we need a tank with empaths and Tom Cruise saving the day?

You don't even know the story other than he shot people....do you?
 
2014-01-01 10:34:19 AM  

BumpInTheNight: Giltric: It is not a citation.


It is a bias, bigotry, foolishness....maybe even trolling.

Your call.

pick your own epithet....

Said the man defending a guy who's livelyhood was selling killing devices and then ghoolishly creating trophies from the bodies of those slain.  You asked for cites and yet you can't even prove this isn't what he did, even after reading the article where the journalist confirmed these things.  Death merchant:  Nothing of value was lost.



I can't prove he didn't do something?

Where have I heard that one before....oh yeah...from trolls.
 
2014-01-01 10:38:28 AM  

AngryDragon: Already?  I see the hoplophobes are up early.


The word you are using is not found in the dictionary.

No word found in any dictionaries.

Well. We can certainly dismiss anyone who disagrees with your narrow world view with an imaginary word, can't we, Derpstegio.
 
2014-01-01 10:38:52 AM  

Giltric: I can't prove he didn't do something?

Where have I heard that one before....oh yeah...from trolls.


Let's switch gears then since neither of us can prove our case with cold facts apart from a news story backing mine up and fairy dust for yours.  Let's ask ourselves this:  What is more believeable - a man who owned a gun & skinning shop have a many prosperous years without even once cutting up a corpse or selling a lethal weapon to someone with the intention of using it on other living things.  Or a man who gleefully sold these weapons and as a bonus offered discounts on creating the perfect cadaver souvenir of the murder's conquests?

Only an idiot would go with the first one, like morbidly stupid.  Sooo stupid they'd have to be an active fox news viewer.
 
2014-01-01 10:41:42 AM  

pueblonative: AngryDragon: pueblonative: I think in this moment of tragedy we should remember the rules when discussing this or any other gun tragedy:

Rule 1: It is "ghoulish" to suggest in any way that the easy availability of guns might in any way enable gun slaughter.
Rule 2: Gun crime in the president's hometown proves that guns anywhere else are no fit topic of conversation.
Rule 3: All gun owners are to be complimented as responsible and law-abiding until they personally have hurt themselves or somebody else
Rule 4: Any attempt to stop mass casualty shootings is "political." Allowing them to continue is"non-political."
Rule 5: Gun ownership is essential to freedom, as in Serbia & Guatemala. Gun restrictions lead to tyranny, as in Australia & Canada.

Carry on with your non political discussion, fellow militia member.

Already?  I see the hoplophobes are up early.

You guys would be much less terrified of gun owners if you would just go out and enjoy life a little.  It kind of looks like obsession.

Aww cute, conservatards using made up words to describe gun control and thinking they scored a killshot because it has a -phobe suffix.

Here's a cookie.


Can you name a word that isn't made up?
 
2014-01-01 10:41:55 AM  

BumpInTheNight: Or a man who gleefully sold these weapons and as a bonus offered discounts on creating the perfect cadaver souvenir of the murder's conquests?


So hunting is murder? That's just as stupid as AngryDragon using a made up word to dismiss people who advocate reform in gun control.
 
2014-01-01 10:42:36 AM  

AngryDragon: Already done. Four years in the Army, 3 years as a Sheriff's deputy.


Don't you have to carry a gun when you're an off duty police/sheriff?
 
2014-01-01 10:45:04 AM  

hardinparamedic: BumpInTheNight: Or a man who gleefully sold these weapons and as a bonus offered discounts on creating the perfect cadaver souvenir of the murder's conquests?

So hunting is murder? That's just as stupid as AngryDragon using a made up word to dismiss people who advocate reform in gun control.


Shush man, I'm just trolling a moron here.  Lemmie do this.
 
2014-01-01 10:47:00 AM  

hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: Already?  I see the hoplophobes are up early.

The word you are using is not found in the dictionary.

No word found in any dictionaries.

Well. We can certainly dismiss anyone who disagrees with your narrow world view with an imaginary word, can't we, Derpstegio.


It's a neologism coined by a gun nut to project his insecurities on to people who don't wank to firearms. It's thrown around by knuckle-draggers who want to appear intelligent.
 
2014-01-01 10:47:48 AM  
 
2014-01-01 10:50:55 AM  
Pro 2nd Peoples: Stop trying to change their minds, just set a good example and demonstrate responsibility through action and reasonable discourse.

Anti 2nd Peoples: You will never change the mind of those who believe the 2nd amendment is necessary for the security of a free state. Wiser folks than you decided this was best. I don't care if you are afraid. You should be more afraid of the car you drive or the air you breathe. My neighbor is an idiot. I'd prefer he didn't have guns or a drivers license, however I have no right to take that away just because it makes me uncomfortable.

Everyone: Stop being such a bunch of coonts, bickering about minor details while the country circles the drain, the economy is raped by the elite, and your children turn into self centered monsters. Focus on something more substantial than whether it is safer to have 30 rounds in a magazine or just 5.

Happy New Years!
 
2014-01-01 10:51:14 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Sources say when he was questioned about what happened, Edmundson said he was shot and wounded by Petro, but he was able to get Petro's gun and then allegedly returned fire fatally wounding the gun shop owner.

I'm sure in his final moments Petro wished he'd gone into the fleshlight business.


Actually he sold an entire line of animal hide Fleshlights. I prefer the squirrel.
 
2014-01-01 10:53:49 AM  
Subby, I grew up in a town of ~1000. We had a gun shop that was attached to the back of a house in the community. It also was the local station for deer check-ins and state outlet for fishing licenses. The house/shop was on 25 acres that once a month held skeet shoots. What's hard to wrap your head around this idea?
 
2014-01-01 10:55:29 AM  

HooskerDoo: hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: Already?  I see the hoplophobes are up early.

The word you are using is not found in the dictionary.

No word found in any dictionaries.

Well. We can certainly dismiss anyone who disagrees with your narrow world view with an imaginary word, can't we, Derpstegio.

It's a neologism coined by a gun nut to project his insecurities on to people who don't wank to firearms. It's thrown around by knuckle-draggers who want to appear intelligent.


Homophobia doesn't appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) either, but people toss that one around like it's a real word and disorder.
 
2014-01-01 10:55:31 AM  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplophobia

Hoplophobia is a neologism (newly coined word or expression), originally coined to describe an "irrational aversion to firearms, as opposed to justified apprehension about those who may wield them."

I think most people are in the Justified Apprehension category and not the 'phobia' one. Most people aren't paralyzed in their homes in fear of going out in the world due to gun owners. Most people are however really farking concerned that you can buy a gun without a background check or waiting period, or that you can buy 100 guns and NEVER HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR THEM AGAIN, or that a Straw Purchaser is buying guns for convicted felons or people with restraining orders. The 'rational' stuff is much more realistic.
 
2014-01-01 10:56:04 AM  

jayphat: Subby, I grew up in a town of ~1000. We had a gun shop that was attached to the back of a house in the community. It also was the local station for deer check-ins and state outlet for fishing licenses. The house/shop was on 25 acres that once a month held skeet shoots. What's hard to wrap your head around this idea?


Blinding intolerance of that type of person.
 
2014-01-01 11:00:39 AM  

AngryDragon: The VAST majority of firearm crime is committed by people who acquired it illegally which means that additional restrictions on law abiding citizens are pointless.


Like, say, requiring proper reporting of stolen guns within 24 hours of discovery and/or subjecting the firearm owner to civil and criminal liability in the event that the gun was used in the commission of the crime and he neglectfully secured his weapon or failed to report its theft?  Requiring private gun sales to go through background checks and subjecting those who do not to the same sorts of liability?  Or requiring people buying ammo and weapons to meet the dealer face to face and banning anonymous online purchases?  You mean the type of stuff we had to wait until after James Holmes shot up that theater to even discuss?

Mental health is a red herring.  The NRA has no plans to do anything to address mental health. One, they're the part of the party that dismantled the nation's mental health system in the first place.  More importantly, they know as anybody else that the link between people diagnosed as mentally ill and criminals is laughably low.

Education and poverty:  hmm, didn't know that Adam Lanza  would be considered either poor or uneducated.  Same goes with Dylan Klebold, Eric Harris and James Holmes.  Oh, and one other thing: none of them had committed a gun crime prior to their blaze of glory so the jail sentences don't work that well.  Oh I know, they all played video games so we should ban those and ignore the guns.  Any other herrings you care to drag across the trail, or did I steal your final thunderbolt.

Party of personal responsibility my ass.
 
2014-01-01 11:01:27 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: Homophobia doesn't appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) either, but people toss that one around like it's a real word and disorder.


But it is a real word.
 
2014-01-01 11:01:36 AM  

FnkyTwn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplophobia

Most people are however really farking concerned that you can buy a gun without a background check or waiting period, or that you can buy 100 guns and NEVER HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR THEM AGAIN, or that a Straw Purchaser is buying guns for convicted felons or people with restraining orders. The 'rational' stuff is much more realistic.


Lets go point by point here, shall we?
1.) You can? If you're referring to gun shows, perhaps people shouldn't be YELLING OUT THEIR FARKING MOUTH that this is a problem since these sales account for less that 1% of all crimes committed with a gun.
2.) Why does there need to be a waiting period?
3.) What accounting needs to be made for a gun after its purchase?
4) Straw purchases are illegal. It's a felony. If you do so, and the gun is used in a crime, you yourself become a felon.

So tell me, what justified fear is there other than the fact we have zero connection between background checks and mental health records, because I'm all for linking the two.
 
2014-01-01 11:02:28 AM  
"Hoplophobe" is only a thing in the minds of fetishists.

http://mediamatters.org/print/blog/2013/05/02/daily-caller-pushes-inv e nted-psychological-diso/193867

/take out the spaces and paste in address bar
//mediamatters don't like to link
 
2014-01-01 11:02:44 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: HooskerDoo: hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: Already?  I see the hoplophobes are up early.

The word you are using is not found in the dictionary.

No word found in any dictionaries.

Well. We can certainly dismiss anyone who disagrees with your narrow world view with an imaginary word, can't we, Derpstegio.

It's a neologism coined by a gun nut to project his insecurities on to people who don't wank to firearms. It's thrown around by knuckle-draggers who want to appear intelligent.

Homophobia doesn't appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) either, but people toss that one around like it's a real word and disorder.


No, homophobia is not a mental illness, but religion arguably is
 
2014-01-01 11:03:28 AM  

HooskerDoo: InterruptingQuirk: Homophobia doesn't appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) either, but people toss that one around like it's a real word and disorder.

But it is a real word.


Then so is any word that we make up if we understand it's meaning and usage.
 
2014-01-01 11:03:56 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: "Hoplophobe" is only a thing in the minds of fetishists.

http://mediamatters.org/print/blog/2013/05/02/daily-caller-pushes-inv e nted-psychological-diso/193867

/take out the spaces and paste in address bar
//mediamatters don't like to link


Because no-one should visit media matters. Ever.
 
2014-01-01 11:04:20 AM  

ParaHandy: InterruptingQuirk: HooskerDoo: hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: Already?  I see the hoplophobes are up early.

The word you are using is not found in the dictionary.

No word found in any dictionaries.

Well. We can certainly dismiss anyone who disagrees with your narrow world view with an imaginary word, can't we, Derpstegio.

It's a neologism coined by a gun nut to project his insecurities on to people who don't wank to firearms. It's thrown around by knuckle-draggers who want to appear intelligent.

Homophobia doesn't appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) either, but people toss that one around like it's a real word and disorder.

No, homophobia is not a mental illness, but religion arguably is


Don't start more shiat please, lets keep this a little relevant
 
2014-01-01 11:04:51 AM  

born_yesterday: Ugh. These threads always bring out the most embarrassing assclowns of gun owners.


Gun owners? It's the pants-wetting gun control supporters going from 0 to asshat in this thread.
 
2014-01-01 11:05:01 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: HooskerDoo: InterruptingQuirk: Homophobia doesn't appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) either, but people toss that one around like it's a real word and disorder.

But it is a real word.

Then so is any word that we make up if we understand it's meaning and usage.


So what are we disagreeing on here?
 
2014-01-01 11:05:45 AM  

hardinparamedic: BumpInTheNight: Or a man who gleefully sold these weapons and as a bonus offered discounts on creating the perfect cadaver souvenir of the murder's conquests?

So hunting is murder? That's just as stupid as AngryDragon using a made up word to dismiss people who advocate reform in gun control.


Made up word? Like gay?
 
2014-01-01 11:06:33 AM  

jayphat: 4) Straw purchases are illegal. It's a felony. If you do so, and the gun is used in a crime, you yourself become a felon.


And it's a good thing we fully fund the ATF to track and enforce these laws.  Right?
 
2014-01-01 11:10:02 AM  

pueblonative: jayphat: 4) Straw purchases are illegal. It's a felony. If you do so, and the gun is used in a crime, you yourself become a felon.

And it's a good thing we fully fund the ATF to track and enforce these laws.  Right?


Then fund them more? I have no issue with this. Fark, give me the federal budget. I'll get that biatch cleaned up in three hours.
 
2014-01-01 11:13:14 AM  

jayphat: pueblonative: jayphat: 4) Straw purchases are illegal. It's a felony. If you do so, and the gun is used in a crime, you yourself become a felon.

And it's a good thing we fully fund the ATF to track and enforce these laws.  Right?

Then fund them more? I have no issue with this. Fark, give me the federal budget. I'll get that biatch cleaned up in three hours.


Of course you'll get increased funding of the ATF past the teatards, dear.  Just like all those world class economists who could balance the budget and pay off the debt in 10 years if they weren't busy driving taxis and cutting hair.
 
2014-01-01 11:15:57 AM  

AngryDragon: pueblonative: AngryDragon: pueblonative: Aww cute, conservatards using made up words to describe gun control and thinking they scored a killshot because it has a -phobe suffix.

Here's a cookie

Tell you what.  We'll let you kill em before they're born, we get to kill em when they become criminals.  Deal?

You gonna give them a cookie with that hot shot, clown?

Counter deal: if you want to go play soldier, you can sign up with the Armed Forces where they'll teach you responsible gun ownership and how owning the latest Bushmaster "man card" does not turn you into a Red Dawn Wolverine.  They'll even pay you.

Already done.  Four years in the Army, 3 years as a Sheriff's deputy.

I know what's out there because I've had to clean up the aftermath.  I've had more exposure to firearms than the average person by an exponential measure.  I carry.  A .38 snubnose revolver.  I don't even own a long rifle, just a 12 gauge for sporting clays and home defense.  My firearm isn't a penis extension, an Internet tough guy statement, or a a defense against tyranny.  My firearm is with me at all times because I've seen the bad guys up close and personal and there is no way that I will let my family or any other innocent person be put at risk if I happen to be in a position to do something about it.

If you think that you can't be a victim of violent crime anywhere at anytime, or that law enforcement can protect you, you're delusional.


It's not about delusions..........its about having a fundamental understanding of risk and statistics.

Owning a gun and more specifically carrying a loaded gun on your person is about making tradeoffs.  You cut down slightly (An attacker almost always has the upper hand due to the element of surprise) the risk that you will be able to use your gun to defend yourself while greatly increasing the risk that you will just shoot yourself or someone else accidentally.  And before you claim that you are a safe, responsible gun owner..........note that probably everyone who accidentally shoots themselves or someone else has made the same claim.

So those of us who don't carry a gun everywhere don't face the risk that we will accidentally shoot ourselves or someone else.............the tradeoff is we are at risk for a violent crime.  Of course, random violent crime is extremely rare and on the decline.  So for the majority of the population this risk is acceptable.

One of the risks gun advocates never seem to contemplate is the escalation factor.  George Zimmerman is a perfect example.  Ignore for a moment the politics of the case and think about this........if GZ wasn't armed would he have gotten out of the car?  The answer is almost certainly "no". If he doesn't get out of the car he doesn't get into a fight and he doesn't kill TM.  The presence of his gun gave him the "courage" to take a risk he wouldn't not have taken otherwise.  What is the point of gun if it causes you to take on more risk than is necessary?  But even if he did get out of the car and followed TM and got into a fight that he lost the most he would have gotten was an butt kicking and TM would have most likely been arrested.  However, because GZ was armed a simple whooping turned into a shooting.  I'm sure GZ didn't want to get beat up, but I'm betting in hindsight he would have preferred that over his current situation.  You can find stories like this almost every day in the US...........a simple argument or fight turns deadly because one or more of the people were armed.

There are exceptions where carrying a gun makes sense.............such as if you are in a risky profession.  Cops fall into this category, of course.  But there are a number of other professions that do as well. If you work in some kind of field where you can ruin someones life (ie.....divorce attorney, process server, etc) you would be wise to carry a gun.  Other than that............you are just trading one slight risk for a greater risk.  Makes no sense.
 
2014-01-01 11:19:41 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: ParaHandy: InterruptingQuirk: HooskerDoo: hardinparamedic: AngryDragon: Already?  I see the hoplophobes are up early.

The word you are using is not found in the dictionary.

No word found in any dictionaries.

Well. We can certainly dismiss anyone who disagrees with your narrow world view with an imaginary word, can't we, Derpstegio.

It's a neologism coined by a gun nut to project his insecurities on to people who don't wank to firearms. It's thrown around by knuckle-draggers who want to appear intelligent.

Homophobia doesn't appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) either, but people toss that one around like it's a real word and disorder.

No, homophobia is not a mental illness, but religion arguably is

Don't start more shiat please, lets keep this a little relevant


WelcomeToFark.jpg

Seriously, much as I enjoy a good intellectual debate that is on point, if that's your preference you're definitely in the wrong place :)
 
2014-01-01 11:25:12 AM  

Born_Again_Bavarian: Owning a gun and more specifically carrying a loaded gun on your person is about making tradeoffs. You cut down slightly (An attacker almost always has the upper hand due to the element of surprise) the risk that you will be able to use your gun to defend yourself while greatly increasing the risk that you will just shoot yourself or someone else accidentally. And before you claim that you are a safe, responsible gun owner..........note that probably everyone who accidentally shoots themselves or someone else has made the same claim.


This argument is fallacious. The guy who was in his own gun store surrounded by firearms greatly decreased his vulnerability to being the victim of a violent crime.

[reads article again]

Okay, nevermind.
 
2014-01-01 11:32:53 AM  

HooskerDoo: InterruptingQuirk: HooskerDoo: InterruptingQuirk: Homophobia doesn't appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) either, but people toss that one around like it's a real word and disorder.

But it is a real word.

Then so is any word that we make up if we understand it's meaning and usage.

So what are we disagreeing on here?


IDK, Happy New Years!
 
2014-01-01 11:33:55 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: HooskerDoo: InterruptingQuirk: HooskerDoo: InterruptingQuirk: Homophobia doesn't appear in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) either, but people toss that one around like it's a real word and disorder.

But it is a real word.

Then so is any word that we make up if we understand it's meaning and usage.

So what are we disagreeing on here?

IDK, Happy New Years!


Cheers!
 
2014-01-01 11:38:09 AM  

AngryDragon: Already done.  Four years in the Army, 3 years as a Sheriff's deputy.

I know what's out there because I've had to clean up the aftermath.  I've had more exposure to firearms than the average person by an exponential measure.  I carry.  A .38 snubnose revolver.  I don't even own a long rifle, just a 12 gauge for sporting clays and home defense.  My firearm isn't a penis extension, an Internet tough guy statement, or a a defense against tyranny.  My firearm is with me at all times because I've seen the bad guys up close and personal and there is no way that I will let my family or any other innocent person be put at risk if I happen to be in a position to do something about it.

If you think that you can't be a victim of violent crime anywhere at anytime, or that law enforcement can protect you, you're delusional.


Hmm.
I pay careful attention to my surroundings, move with a purpose, and avoid bad places.

I also avoid people with obvious mental issues, and those idiots with insufficient unarmed combatives practice, unrealistic beliefs about their reaction times, and movie-level fantasy estimates of their marksmanship skills, who walk around armed and afraid in public, but I repeat myself.

So far, 100% effective at not being victimized. Not being threatened. Not approached by youths up to no good. Not even receiving rude gestures.

I must be doing something wrong to have missed out on violent victimization for so many decades.
 
2014-01-01 11:40:19 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: I also avoid people with obvious mental issues, and those idiots with insufficient unarmed combatives practice, unrealistic beliefs about their reaction times, and movie-level fantasy estimates of their marksmanship skills, who walk around armed and afraid in public, but I repeat myself.


You, sir have just made a VERY powerful enemy. *squints menacingly*
 
2014-01-01 11:44:11 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: pueblonative: AngryDragon: pueblonative: I think in this moment of tragedy we should remember the rules when discussing this or any other gun tragedy:

Rule 1: It is "ghoulish" to suggest in any way that the easy availability of guns might in any way enable gun slaughter.
Rule 2: Gun crime in the president's hometown proves that guns anywhere else are no fit topic of conversation.
Rule 3: All gun owners are to be complimented as responsible and law-abiding until they personally have hurt themselves or somebody else
Rule 4: Any attempt to stop mass casualty shootings is "political." Allowing them to continue is"non-political."
Rule 5: Gun ownership is essential to freedom, as in Serbia & Guatemala. Gun restrictions lead to tyranny, as in Australia & Canada.

Carry on with your non political discussion, fellow militia member.

Already?  I see the hoplophobes are up early.

You guys would be much less terrified of gun owners if you would just go out and enjoy life a little.  It kind of looks like obsession.

Aww cute, conservatards using made up words to describe gun control and thinking they scored a killshot because it has a -phobe suffix.

Here's a cookie.

Can you name a word that isn't made up?


Onomatopoeia is pretty much a language universal. Although there are language differences, simply pronouncing it works most of the time*.
Waahhh!
Baaa.
Ha-ha-ha-ha.
Moo.

*Imitations of animal sounds are most likely to cause difficulty.
 
2014-01-01 11:46:45 AM  

HooskerDoo: demaL-demaL-yeH: I also avoid people with obvious mental issues, and those idiots with insufficient unarmed combatives practice, unrealistic beliefs about their reaction times, and movie-level fantasy estimates of their marksmanship skills, who walk around armed and afraid in public, but I repeat myself.

You, sir have just made a VERY powerful enemy. *squints menacingly*


Dragons don't exist. Pure mythology.
/They're like gnomes.
//But not fairies. Fairies are real.
///Hang in there, Tink.
 
2014-01-01 11:48:38 AM  
Aaaahhhh, the old "wait, what." The intellectual crutch for Fark wiberals....
 
2014-01-01 11:49:57 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: AngryDragon: Already done.  Four years in the Army, 3 years as a Sheriff's deputy.

I know what's out there because I've had to clean up the aftermath.  I've had more exposure to firearms than the average person by an exponential measure.  I carry.  A .38 snubnose revolver.  I don't even own a long rifle, just a 12 gauge for sporting clays and home defense.  My firearm isn't a penis extension, an Internet tough guy statement, or a a defense against tyranny.  My firearm is with me at all times because I've seen the bad guys up close and personal and there is no way that I will let my family or any other innocent person be put at risk if I happen to be in a position to do something about it.

If you think that you can't be a victim of violent crime anywhere at anytime, or that law enforcement can protect you, you're delusional.

Hmm.
I pay careful attention to my surroundings, move with a purpose, and avoid bad places.

I also avoid people with obvious mental issues, and those idiots with insufficient unarmed combatives practice, unrealistic beliefs about their reaction times, and movie-level fantasy estimates of their marksmanship skills, who walk around armed and afraid in public, but I repeat myself.

So far, 100% effective at not being victimized. Not being threatened. Not approached by youths up to no good. Not even receiving rude gestures.

I must be doing something wrong to have missed out on violent victimization for so many decades.


I am amused by the fact that everyone who I know that carries a gun always/often  (white suburbanites)  will ALL claim that the gun has saved them at some point.  Meanwhile all the people I know who don't carry have never been the victim of any kind of violent act where a gun would have been useful.  I know one unarmed person who was the victim of a armed robbery, but a gun would have just gotten him killed because he got jumped.  Instead he just got shoved to the ground and got his wallet stolen.

Shocking conclusion:  If you carry a gun, everything becomes a threat
 
2014-01-01 11:54:46 AM  

InterruptingQuirk: Blinding intolerance of that type of person.


It's ignorance on both parts really.

City-Folk: tend to fear guns because they don't skeet shoot or hunt, and they don't live 30 minutes from society.
Country-Folk: tend to have a gun because they tend to need guns on occasion.

Now these lines are blurred a bit by nutjobs on both sides. Some city-folk want to outlaw all guns, and some country-folk think it's just fine for lots of guns to be in the "big city" because cities are full of brown people and government.

Background Checks, Magazine Size Limits (you don't need 30+ bullets per clip) yes clip is the proper word), Waiting Periods, Mental Health Checks (sadly this seems impossible), Private Seller Loopholes.. all of these things are reasonable and none of them 'ban' guns. There should probably be mental health screening for concealed-carry and you should have to renew your CCW like every 4 years nationwide, to include mental health screening. And I would personally like a law that makes people account for the guns they've purchased like once every 5-10 years. I just want to know that you still have the 50 AKs you purchased, and if you don't have them, then I want clear documentation showing who you sold them to or if they were "stolen".

Currently though we can't even have a conversation about guns because every time the subject comes up some people put their fingers in their ears, shut their eyes and start screaming (those people probably shouldn't own guns), and the rest of us are pissed off that the NRA drapes itself in the American flag and pretends that they're protecting our national virginity, when really all they are is just a lobbying group for gun manufacturers. Some of us get pissed off that the NRA makes it seem like our elected government is constantly trying to enslave us just so they can sell more guns to idiots.. idiots who probably shouldn't own guns in the first place.

And then most of us should recognize that 9-11 hurt us a lot more than just the twin towers or financially. 9-11 put a fresh fear of the world back into our culture and the subsequent wars generated enough isolationism that the sons of the founder of the John Birch Society (Koch Brothers) are now the major funders behind the GOP/TeaParty. It turned Islam against Christianity and Christianity against Islam. It's just too bad that we don't have national healthcare that would handle all the therapy we need, or the legalized marijuana to mellow people the fark out. And the NRA isn't helping.
 
2014-01-01 11:55:17 AM  

pueblonative: hmm, didn't know that Adam Lanza  would be considered either poor or uneducated.  Same goes with Dylan Klebold, Eric Harris and James Holmes.  Oh, and one other thing: none of them had committed a gun crime prior to their blaze of glory so the jail sentences don't work that well


The gun homicide rate is down 50%.  Most of those are committed in urban, high-poverty areas.  For every one Lanza or Klebold, there are 11,000 individual criminal acts committed with firearms resulting in homicide.  Almost none of those are with "assault rifles", almost all with illegal firearms, and most with repeat offenders.  Additionally, the vast majority are black-on-black.

Go ahead, pass a law that would have stopped Lanza.  It's spitting in the ocean and the only real restriction that will be in effect is on law abiding citizens.  Do something about the other 11,000 incidents by dealing with the root causes and you will have a positive effect.

Rolling out the memories of dead children due to a lunatic to further a political and ultimately ineffective set of laws is abhorrent.
 
2014-01-01 11:56:34 AM  

ReapTheChaos: Back before the government invented zoning laws, running a business out of your home was common. Typically they would have the store/business in the front and the home portion in the rear or upstairs. If you drive down main street of any older town you'll see the stores all have a residence above them where the owners would live.


What's even weirder to me, a child of the suburbs, is to drive through a residential area of an old industrial town and see a bar or a grocery store suddenly appear among the houses.
 
2014-01-01 11:58:37 AM  

Born_Again_Bavarian: I am amused by the fact that everyone who I know that carries a gun always/often  (white suburbanites)  will ALL claim that the gun has saved them at some point.  Meanwhile all the people I know who don't carry have never been the victim of any kind of violent act where a gun would have been useful.  I know one unarmed person who was the victim of a armed robbery, but a gun would have just gotten him killed because he got jumped.  Instead he just got shoved to the ground and got his wallet stolen.

Shocking conclusion:   If you carry a gun, everything becomes a threat


Military training fosters that mindset. And it is a rational, utilitarian mindset, since, in fact, you are walking/riding around armed looking for trouble.

It's a rational mindset for an active combat zone.
And for training.
But not for the streets of the United States, where it is a liability.

That mindset naturally leads to escalation and is prejudicial to public safety.
 
2014-01-01 12:03:30 PM  

AngryDragon: Rolling out the memories of dead children due to a lunatic to further a political and ultimately ineffective set of laws is abhorrent.


it's the easiest way to distract from the fact that alcohol was once again the culprit.
 
2014-01-01 12:06:24 PM  

AngryDragon: Rolling out the memories of dead children due to a lunatic to further a political and ultimately ineffective set of laws is abhorrent.


wpmedia.fullcomment.nationalpost.com


Think you need to go have a talk with these fine, rational people.
 
2014-01-01 12:13:45 PM  

pueblonative: AngryDragon: Rolling out the memories of dead children due to a lunatic to further a political and ultimately ineffective set of laws is abhorrent.

[wpmedia.fullcomment.nationalpost.com image 619x464]


Think you need to go have a talk with these fine, rational people.


Why?  I think they're just as serious lunatics and in exactly the same way.  Arguing against the symptom, not the root cause.  That's one's even easier too.  Availability of sex education and contraception yields fewer abortions.  But just like gun control, where the best solution is education and economic opportunity,  the real answer isn't very sexy and doesn't win votes.
 
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