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(Fox News)   And here it is, folks, the first head to roll over the Obamacare launch. Well, not "roll" exactly as much as "depart quietly in what was supposedly a planned retirement," but it'll have to do for now   (foxnews.com) divider line 52
    More: Obvious, obamacare, Marsha Blackburn, Health and Human Services  
•       •       •

3689 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Dec 2013 at 11:37 AM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-31 11:24:37 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-12-31 11:44:28 AM
insideout.wbur.org

Knows ALL about unplanned, planned retirements.
 
2013-12-31 11:48:17 AM
Only in the government can something go as bad as the website roll out and no one lose their job.
 
2013-12-31 11:49:36 AM
Did anyone seriously think that the government could get a huge new IT project right the first time, or even within the first year?
 
2013-12-31 11:51:07 AM

Quinzy: Only in the government can something go as bad as the website roll out and no one lose their job.


Did any of the private sector contractors get fired?
 
2013-12-31 11:52:13 AM

Quinzy: Only in the government can something go as bad as the website roll out and no one lose their job.


Seriously.  Love the ACA or hate it, multiple people seriously dropped the ball with the website launch.  If I rolled out a product like that, I would be axed before the end of the day.
 
2013-12-31 11:53:34 AM
Yes, it was a simple website. It's not like this site was actually a front end for a massive information system that reached across archaic 80's (at best) era databases and disparate networks and systems across the government and private sector. But, yeah, it's just like any other website launch.
 
2013-12-31 11:56:02 AM

flak attack: Quinzy: Only in the government can something go as bad as the website roll out and no one lose their job.

Seriously.  Love the ACA or hate it, multiple people seriously dropped the ball with the website launch.  If I rolled out a product like that, I would be axed before the end of the day.


In their defense, nobody expected most of the red states to voluntarily give up power to the federal government by refusing to implement their own exchanges, leading to far more strain on the federal system than expected.

Even by modern day GOP standards, it was a freakin' bizarre and poorly thought-out move.
 
2013-12-31 12:00:23 PM

zelet: Yes, it was a simple website. It's not like this site was actually a front end for a massive information system that reached across archaic 80's (at best) era databases and disparate networks and systems across the government and private sector. But, yeah, it's just like any other website launch.


That is not the point. They knew the scope of the project when they created it.  They simply screwed it up.
 
2013-12-31 12:06:35 PM

Glendale: Did anyone seriously think that the government could get a huge new IT project right the first time, or even within the first year?


I'm surprised that it's already been fixed.
 
2013-12-31 12:08:31 PM

flak attack: Quinzy: Only in the government can something go as bad as the website roll out and no one lose their job.

Seriously.  Love the ACA or hate it, multiple people seriously dropped the ball with the website launch.  If I rolled out a product like that, I would be axed before the end of the day.


Congress' refusal to provide funding for the website developmen and rollout will hopefully result in massive firings from the House next November.
 
2013-12-31 12:09:26 PM

Quinzy: zelet: Yes, it was a simple website. It's not like this site was actually a front end for a massive information system that reached across archaic 80's (at best) era databases and disparate networks and systems across the government and private sector. But, yeah, it's just like any other website launch.

That is not the point. They knew the scope of the project when they created it.  They simply

asked Congress for enough money to do the expanded job. The GOP House intentionally screwed it up.

FTFY
 
2013-12-31 12:09:55 PM
The disaster is only beginning.
 
2013-12-31 12:10:13 PM
Anyway, Brownie did a heck of a job.
 
2013-12-31 12:12:59 PM

X-boxershorts: flak attack: Quinzy: Only in the government can something go as bad as the website roll out and no one lose their job.

Seriously.  Love the ACA or hate it, multiple people seriously dropped the ball with the website launch.  If I rolled out a product like that, I would be axed before the end of the day.

Congress' refusal to provide funding for the website developmen and rollout will hopefully result in massive firings from the House next November.


Yea, right? If only Obama had a complete blank check and full dictatorial power, those Unicorns would be here already. It's all Republicans fault.
 
2013-12-31 12:14:14 PM

Spare Me: The disaster is only beginning.


loveaboundingdotcom.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-31 12:14:43 PM
I reread the headline like six times before I realized it said "launch" and not "lunch."
 
2013-12-31 12:16:20 PM

Spare Me: X-boxershorts: flak attack: Quinzy: Only in the government can something go as bad as the website roll out and no one lose their job.

Seriously.  Love the ACA or hate it, multiple people seriously dropped the ball with the website launch.  If I rolled out a product like that, I would be axed before the end of the day.

Congress' refusal to provide funding for the website developmen and rollout will hopefully result in massive firings from the House next November.

Yea, right? If only Obama had a complete blank check and full dictatorial power, those Unicorns would be here already. It's all Republicans fault.


They literally and openly said that they (the Republicans) would do everything in their power to make Obama's president a "failure."

Which is fine, they were just saying "Hey, go ahead and blame us. We will do everything we can to earn that blame." and then they did exactly that.
 
2013-12-31 12:16:55 PM

LavenderWolf: Spare Me: X-boxershorts: flak attack: Quinzy: Only in the government can something go as bad as the website roll out and no one lose their job.

Seriously.  Love the ACA or hate it, multiple people seriously dropped the ball with the website launch.  If I rolled out a product like that, I would be axed before the end of the day.

Congress' refusal to provide funding for the website developmen and rollout will hopefully result in massive firings from the House next November.

Yea, right? If only Obama had a complete blank check and full dictatorial power, those Unicorns would be here already. It's all Republicans fault.

They literally and openly said that they (the Republicans) would do everything in their power to make Obama's president a "failure."

Which is fine, they were just saying "Hey, go ahead and blame us. We will do everything we can to earn that blame." and then they did exactly that.


That would be Obama's *presidency
 
2013-12-31 12:18:54 PM

Spare Me: Yea, right? If only Obama had a complete blank check and full dictatorial power, those Unicorns would be here already. It's all Republicans fault.


Indeed it is. The Republican House refused to fund development and rollout of the healthcare.gov website.

If you fart in the elevator and there's only 2 people there, it's difficult to pretend it wasn't you.

Own it.
 
2013-12-31 12:19:38 PM

zelet: Yes, it was a simple website. It's not like this site was actually a front end for a massive information system that reached across archaic 80's (at best) era databases and disparate networks and systems across the government and private sector. But, yeah, it's just like any other website launch.


If at launch they were servicing requests by routing anything to an 80s era database, then they don't understand anything about networking, systems integration or how to do their job, and therefore fail miserably.
 
2013-12-31 12:24:14 PM
The website works today... Cry me a river, no one will remember this fiasco a few years from now. At the end of the day, like most large IT project roll outs to the public, it is never really version 1.0. The large majority of products and services are unpolished, requiring additional improvements to be considered version 1.0. If Healthcare.gov was held back, it would never be released! There is an old adage in IT, release and then fix. If you are always fixing, you will never release!

I'm not surprised there were no firings over the fiasco. It's a government product... Why would the government care about any tarnishing of its image? It's not a publicly traded company, it's not subject to boycotts or viral marketing sabotage, its shareholders (the public) complains a lot but don't really give a f--k because they never do anything significant to change things up.

Do you don't think the countless scandals like IRS, Benghazi (is it a scandal yet?), and E. Snowden hasn't its reputation enough? A measly website roll-out is nothing compared to those f-ups. Bottom line, the launch did not cause anyone to die. Therefore, truly no harm other than perceived was caused. Is it justifiable to fire someone over an expected outcome, which unfortunately occurs millions of times a year in the IT sector?

The real story that people in the IT industry doesn't like to talk about is that Healthcare.gov showcased a rotten problem in the way software products are developed. Software engineering is very error prone, the industry leaders prefer "rapid" product development over sound engineering practices that would ensure against massive failures like the website rollout. Test driven development anyone? No that takes too long and doesn't deliver talking point milestones for the project manager. Incorporating sound engineering practices bloats the timeline, and add costs. When asked to lower costs, these are some of the first things to drop from the project plan.

I sternly believe the IT sector and software engineering in general must be regulated, and accredited like the other physical engineering disciplines in order to overcome the management incentives in pushing quantity over quality. It's not a government problem, it's a IT industry problem period. A lot of version 1.0 software (which is really not 1.0, mostly beta/pre 1.0) are buggy to hell. It's become acceptable to do this in this industry. It's pathetic.
 
2013-12-31 12:33:47 PM

flak attack: Quinzy: Only in the government can something go as bad as the website roll out and no one lose their job.

Seriously.  Love the ACA or hate it, multiple people seriously dropped the ball with the website launch.  If I rolled out a product like that, I would be axed before the end of the day.


That's the right attitude. America seems to have fallen into a thing where you have to buy American, even if its products are inferior.
That's bad for the country.

The right answer is to hold people accountable, expect the best product possible, and deal with problems clearly and honestly.
Otherwise, we're doomed to a lesser status in the world now matter how much we beat our chests.
 
2013-12-31 12:35:45 PM
i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-31 12:36:37 PM
 
2013-12-31 12:47:19 PM

X-boxershorts: Spare Me: Yea, right? If only Obama had a complete blank check and full dictatorial power, those Unicorns would be here already. It's all Republicans fault.

Indeed it is. The Republican House refused to fund development and rollout of the healthcare.gov website.

If you fart in the elevator and there's only 2 people there, it's difficult to pretend it wasn't you.

Own it.


Are you f#$king serious? The Republicans are supposed to own this mess? They wanted nothing to do with it. Even if the website worked *perfectly*, it doesn't explain the abandoned carts when people realize "you mean it's not free?!" at checkout?

This mess is 100% caused and owned by the Democrats. God,  you're so dumb, I bet you fail surveys.
 
2013-12-31 01:04:41 PM

rigmort: This mess is 100% caused and owned by the Democrats.


https://www.google.com/#q=republicans+who+embrace+obamacare&safe=act iv e

The ACA is constructed from ideas promoted by the American Heritage Foundation. I fully expect the Republicans to take credit for it once it becomes a success. It's not as if they have any other ideas, considering these are already their ideas.

Good thing the political memory of Americans is so short.
 
2013-12-31 01:13:18 PM
The website cost about 30 times more than what IBM would have charged to make it.  That is a conservative estimate, not counting what it cost to fix the thing after it was rolled out (and it still aint fixed).

To suggest that the problem was that the congressional republicans did not vote it enough money is so stupid that it would make me angry, if you worms were capable of getting me angry.

But it is a pretty stupid thing to say.  Like, painfully stupid.  You have to be either functionally retarded to think that is the case, dishonest (I include the astroturfers here.... you KNOW the parties pay people to post on forums, don't you?  which party claims to be more tech savvy?), or just aren't paying attention but assume Obama's peeps can do no wrong.

I'm figuring either dishonest or just aren't paying attention.
 
2013-12-31 01:33:20 PM

GORDON: The website cost about 30 times more than what IBM would have charged to make it. That is a conservative estimate, not counting what it cost to fix the thing after it was rolled out (and it still aint fixed).


Citatation please, especially the estimate of what IBM would have charged.

I was able to find this.
 
2013-12-31 01:36:43 PM

Pangea: The ACA is constructed from ideas promoted by the American Heritage Foundation. I fully expect the Republicans to take credit for it once it becomes a success. It's not as if they have any other ideas, considering these are already their ideas.


The notion that ACA is anything like ideas promoted by Heritage is a lie promulgated by rabidly partisan Democrats desperate to find some kind of cover when ACA blows up and destroys the health insurance coverage of most of the middle class.  That lie is then parroted by idiots who don't have the intelligence to understand either ACA or the Heritage report.

And believe it or not, Republicans and Conservatives have come up with plenty of other ideas.  Some are good, others are not. But the lie that his opposition has no ideas has been thrown around by Obama and his minions so that they don't have to defend ACA against ideas that would actually work.  A sycophantic media and the legions of useful idiots who support Obama keep the lie alive.

So now comes the question:  Is Pangea a colossally ignorant fool or just another garden-variety, maliciously partisan liar?
 
2013-12-31 01:38:49 PM
Yeah, during this Congress' tenure the government can't even order toilet paper right.
 
2013-12-31 01:41:12 PM

GORDON: I'm figuring either dishonestly or just aren't paying attention.


FTFY
 
2013-12-31 01:51:12 PM

Glendale: Did anyone seriously think that the government could get a huge new IT project right the first time, or even within the first

fouryears?
 
2013-12-31 01:52:57 PM

zelet: Yes, it was a simple website. It's not like this site was actually a front end for a massive information system that reached across archaic 80's (at best) era databases and disparate networks and systems across the government and private sector. But, yeah, it's just like any other website launch.


yeah, keep on thinking it is because it is the most complex website ever created
and ignore crap like not remembering to include how to get money from a sale.
 
2013-12-31 02:03:59 PM

rigmort: X-boxershorts: Spare Me: Yea, right? If only Obama had a complete blank check and full dictatorial power, those Unicorns would be here already. It's all Republicans fault.

Indeed it is. The Republican House refused to fund development and rollout of the healthcare.gov website.

If you fart in the elevator and there's only 2 people there, it's difficult to pretend it wasn't you.

Own it.

Are you f#$king serious? The Republicans are supposed to own this mess? They wanted nothing to do with it. Even if the website worked *perfectly*, it doesn't explain the abandoned carts when people realize "you mean it's not free?!" at checkout?

This mess is 100% caused and owned by the Democrats. God,  you're so dumb, I bet you fail surveys.


House republicans refused to fund the development and rollout of the Healthcare.gov website.

yes, THEY farkING OWN THAT!!!!

Did you fail Kindergarten?
 
2013-12-31 02:05:39 PM

Mr. Right: Pangea: The ACA is constructed from ideas promoted by the American Heritage Foundation. I fully expect the Republicans to take credit for it once it becomes a success. It's not as if they have any other ideas, considering these are already their ideas.

The notion that ACA is anything like ideas promoted by Heritage is a lie promulgated by rabidly partisan Democrats desperate to find some kind of cover when ACA blows up and destroys the health insurance coverage of most of the middle class.  That lie is then parroted by idiots who don't have the intelligence to understand either ACA or the Heritage report.

And believe it or not, Republicans and Conservatives have come up with plenty of other ideas.  Some are good, others are not. But the lie that his opposition has no ideas has been thrown around by Obama and his minions so that they don't have to defend ACA against ideas that would actually work.  A sycophantic media and the legions of useful idiots who support Obama keep the lie alive.

So now comes the question:  Is Pangea a colossally ignorant fool or just another garden-variety, maliciously partisan liar?


Ignorance is bliss, ain't it?

https://www.google.com/#q=Heritage+Foundation+and+the+ACA
 
2013-12-31 02:17:41 PM

Pangea: rigmort: This mess is 100% caused and owned by the Democrats.

https://www.google.com/#q=republicans+who+embrace+obamacare&safe=act iv e

The ACA is constructed from ideas promoted by the American Heritage Foundation. I fully expect the Republicans to take credit for it once it becomes a success. It's not as if they have any other ideas, considering these are already their ideas.

Good thing the political memory of Americans is so short.


I have a feeling they will take the credit and run with it by saying that if not for Mitt Romney being governor of Mass. and having a very similar health plan enacted and force fed to the public in that state, then Obama would never have had Obamacare ACA
 
2013-12-31 02:33:55 PM

X-boxershorts: rigmort: X-boxershorts: Spare Me: Yea, right? If only Obama had a complete blank check and full dictatorial power, those Unicorns would be here already. It's all Republicans fault.

Indeed it is. The Republican House refused to fund development and rollout of the healthcare.gov website.

If you fart in the elevator and there's only 2 people there, it's difficult to pretend it wasn't you.

Own it.

Are you f#$king serious? The Republicans are supposed to own this mess? They wanted nothing to do with it. Even if the website worked *perfectly*, it doesn't explain the abandoned carts when people realize "you mean it's not free?!" at checkout?

This mess is 100% caused and owned by the Democrats. God,  you're so dumb, I bet you fail surveys.

House republicans refused to fund the development and rollout of the Healthcare.gov website.

yes, THEY farkING OWN THAT!!!!


They spend HALF A BILLION for a 2 million dollar website, and you are saying nobody gave them any money?

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAAHAHAHAHHA
'HAHAHAHA
HAAHH

damn dude.....
 
2013-12-31 02:45:37 PM

Nutsac_Jim: X-boxershorts: rigmort: X-boxershorts: Spare Me: Yea, right? If only Obama had a complete blank check and full dictatorial power, those Unicorns would be here already. It's all Republicans fault.

Indeed it is. The Republican House refused to fund development and rollout of the healthcare.gov website.

If you fart in the elevator and there's only 2 people there, it's difficult to pretend it wasn't you.

Own it.

Are you f#$king serious? The Republicans are supposed to own this mess? They wanted nothing to do with it. Even if the website worked *perfectly*, it doesn't explain the abandoned carts when people realize "you mean it's not free?!" at checkout?

This mess is 100% caused and owned by the Democrats. God,  you're so dumb, I bet you fail surveys.

House republicans refused to fund the development and rollout of the Healthcare.gov website.

yes, THEY farkING OWN THAT!!!!

They spend HALF A BILLION for a 2 million dollar website, and you are saying nobody gave them any money?

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAAHAHAHAHHA
'HAHAHAHA
HAAHH

damn dude.....


Have you ever spec'd out pricing for Oracle Database licensing? F5 load balancing? Multi-Gigabit backplane network switching?

Wanna know how I can tell you haven't?
 
2013-12-31 02:49:34 PM

X-boxershorts: Have you ever spec'd out pricing for Oracle Database licensing? F5 load balancing? Multi-Gigabit backplane network switching?

Wanna know how I can tell you haven't?


You forgot to include making the server racks out of Palladium.
 
2013-12-31 02:54:20 PM

Nutsac_Jim: X-boxershorts: Have you ever spec'd out pricing for Oracle Database licensing? F5 load balancing? Multi-Gigabit backplane network switching?

Wanna know how I can tell you haven't?

You forgot to include making the server racks out of Palladium.


Feel free and solidify the public perception of your ignorance of these things.

The ISP I worked for spent over 2 million just for the oracle licensing when they rolled out a new email platform.
That was 10 years ago.
 
2013-12-31 03:31:17 PM

X-boxershorts: Mr. Right: Pangea: The ACA is constructed from ideas promoted by the American Heritage Foundation. I fully expect the Republicans to take credit for it once it becomes a success. It's not as if they have any other ideas, considering these are already their ideas.

The notion that ACA is anything like ideas promoted by Heritage is a lie promulgated by rabidly partisan Democrats desperate to find some kind of cover when ACA blows up and destroys the health insurance coverage of most of the middle class.  That lie is then parroted by idiots who don't have the intelligence to understand either ACA or the Heritage report.

And believe it or not, Republicans and Conservatives have come up with plenty of other ideas.  Some are good, others are not. But the lie that his opposition has no ideas has been thrown around by Obama and his minions so that they don't have to defend ACA against ideas that would actually work.  A sycophantic media and the legions of useful idiots who support Obama keep the lie alive.

So now comes the question:  Is Pangea a colossally ignorant fool or just another garden-variety, maliciously partisan liar?

Ignorance is bliss, ain't it?

https://www.google.com/#q=Heritage+Foundation+and+the+ACA


So you did a Google search.  Congratulations.  Did you actually read the Heritage report?  Yes, it contains the word mandate!  Yes, it talks about every American having access to health care.  IT'S EVEN IN ENGLISH!!!!!!  SAME AS THE ACA!!!!!

Maybe if you had an attention span longer than whatever it is you carry around in  your X-boxershorts, you could have read the parts where it states that employers should have no role in providing health insurance.  Maybe you could have read the parts where it strongly urged that insurance coverage consist of catastrophic coverage with low premiums and high deductibles and that the insurance plans come with individual Health Savings Accounts where part of each premium would be deposited in a savings account that the insured may use to pay his deductible, if necessary, or save if he is fortunate enough to be healthy.

We have plans like that available now.  I am one of those fortunate enough to be able to keep my individually purchased plan in spite of the ACA.  I've had my HSA account since Kennedy-Kassebaum.  Because my family and I have enjoyed relative good health, I have built up a rather tidy sum in the account.  Should a catastrophe occur, however, I will be covered 100% after the deductible.  Since the early 90s, when I first got my plan, my total health care plus insurance expenditures have never been as much as the premium cost alone for a normal, first-dollar coverage plan.  Plus, since I pay cash for any expenses under the deductible limit, I am acutely aware of what every visit, every prescription, every test costs.  As a result, I negotiate.  My medical expenses are a fraction of normal billings.

So, under the plan Heritage endorsed, premiums would be lower, there would be no employer mandate, people who are fortunate enough to be healthy could build considerable wealth that could be passed on to their heirs instead of going into the coffers of the insurance companies, but those who are catastrophically or chronically ill will spend no more than a regular insurance policy costs now.  Health care providers would deal directly with patients instead of layers of insurance and government regulations.  There would be no discussions or lawsuits about whether employers need to provide coverage for birth control or Plan B, there would be no mandates that senior citizens be covered for prenatal visits, and people would be in charge of their own health care, which doctors they used, which tests they were allowed or required to have, and the list goes on.  In short, if you like your plan, you really can keep your plan.  If you like your doctor, you really can keep your doctor.  And your total expenditures really would be lower.  The big losers would be the insurance companies.  Not that their margins would be lowered, their throughput would be.

Comparing ACA to the Heritage plan is like comparing a lawn mower to an airplane.  They must be the same - they both use fossil fuel!
 
2013-12-31 03:42:58 PM

rigmort: X-boxershorts: Spare Me: Yea, right? If only Obama had a complete blank check and full dictatorial power, those Unicorns would be here already. It's all Republicans fault.

Indeed it is. The Republican House refused to fund development and rollout of the healthcare.gov website.

If you fart in the elevator and there's only 2 people there, it's difficult to pretend it wasn't you.

Own it.

Are you f#$king serious? The Republicans are supposed to own this mess? They wanted nothing to do with it. Even if the website worked *perfectly*, it doesn't explain the abandoned carts when people realize "you mean it's not free?!" at checkout?

This mess is 100% caused and owned by the Democrats. God,  you're so dumb, I bet you fail surveys.



images.sodahead.com
 
2013-12-31 03:42:59 PM

Mr. Right: Pangea: The ACA is constructed from ideas promoted by the American Heritage Foundation. I fully expect the Republicans to take credit for it once it becomes a success. It's not as if they have any other ideas, considering these are already their ideas.

The notion that ACA is anything like ideas promoted by Heritage is a lie promulgated by rabidly partisan Democrats desperate to find some kind of cover when ACA blows up and destroys the health insurance coverage of most of the middle class.  That lie is then parroted by idiots who don't have the intelligence to understand either ACA or the Heritage report.

And believe it or not, Republicans and Conservatives have come up with plenty of other ideas.  Some are good, others are not. But the lie that his opposition has no ideas has been thrown around by Obama and his minions so that they don't have to defend ACA against ideas that would actually work.  A sycophantic media and the legions of useful idiots who support Obama keep the lie alive.

So now comes the question:  Is Pangea a colossally ignorant fool or just another garden-variety, maliciously partisan liar?


So your position is that getting more people to enroll in the health pools is what will destroy insurance, and that Republicans have actually offered "plenty of other ideas."

Just because you flex your vocabulary, while simultaneously speaking condescendingly and in an authoritative voice, doesn't make reality match up with your claims.

Please illustrate some of these viable alternatives the Republicans were offering while taking their 40 plus votes to defund the ACA.
 
2013-12-31 04:37:38 PM

Pangea: Mr. Right: Pangea: The ACA is constructed from ideas promoted by the American Heritage Foundation. I fully expect the Republicans to take credit for it once it becomes a success. It's not as if they have any other ideas, considering these are already their ideas.

The notion that ACA is anything like ideas promoted by Heritage is a lie promulgated by rabidly partisan Democrats desperate to find some kind of cover when ACA blows up and destroys the health insurance coverage of most of the middle class.  That lie is then parroted by idiots who don't have the intelligence to understand either ACA or the Heritage report.

And believe it or not, Republicans and Conservatives have come up with plenty of other ideas.  Some are good, others are not. But the lie that his opposition has no ideas has been thrown around by Obama and his minions so that they don't have to defend ACA against ideas that would actually work.  A sycophantic media and the legions of useful idiots who support Obama keep the lie alive.

So now comes the question:  Is Pangea a colossally ignorant fool or just another garden-variety, maliciously partisan liar?

So your position is that getting more people to enroll in the health pools is what will destroy insurance, and that Republicans have actually offered "plenty of other ideas."

Just because you flex your vocabulary, while simultaneously speaking condescendingly and in an authoritative voice, doesn't make reality match up with your claims.

Please illustrate some of these viable alternatives the Republicans were offering while taking their 40 plus votes to defund the ACA.


You obviously have no idea what the impact of ACA is going to be, and you have no idea what the Heritage plan is.

Just one idea that conservatives have come up with, and which they got plugged into the Kennedy Kassebaum act and which Bush tried to build on in 2006 but was blocked by Democrats, is HSAs.  They are a plan that has been proven to work, to be cost effective for those lucky enough to qualify, and they have been a vehicle for middle class wage earners to build wealth.  Insurance companies don't have as much throughput or control with HSAs but I and everyone I know fortunate to have them absolutely love them.  Obama has ridiculed them and done his best to destroy them in ACA.  But demanding that I illustrate their plans "while taking their 40 plus votes to defund the ACA " is clever because they never included plans in those votes.  That in no way negates the fact that plans have been put forward but ignored by Obama so that he doesn't have to debate them.

ACA is another step towards socialism.  I know that the classic definition of socialism is when the government owns the means of production but one needs not hold title if he has usurped complete control, and the government has usurped control over a huge percentage of individual lives as well as corporate activity.  If that is what voters want, then so be it.  But liberals like to think they're so smart and they like to think they have a lock on science and intelligence.  Which always leaves me wondering why they are pushing so hard to adopt a system that has been demonstrated to fail every single time it has been tried while they fight so hard to destroy the system of free-market capitalism that has created more wealth in the world and has elevated more people in the world out of poverty than all other economic systems combined.  Why do they insist on replicating a North Korean economy when we could do what we taught South Korea?
 
2013-12-31 04:49:34 PM

Mr. Right: X-boxershorts: Mr. Right: Pangea: The ACA is constructed from ideas promoted by the American Heritage Foundation. I fully expect the Republicans to take credit for it once it becomes a success. It's not as if they have any other ideas, considering these are already their ideas.

The notion that ACA is anything like ideas promoted by Heritage is a lie promulgated by rabidly partisan Democrats desperate to find some kind of cover when ACA blows up and destroys the health insurance coverage of most of the middle class.  That lie is then parroted by idiots who don't have the intelligence to understand either ACA or the Heritage report.

And believe it or not, Republicans and Conservatives have come up with plenty of other ideas.  Some are good, others are not. But the lie that his opposition has no ideas has been thrown around by Obama and his minions so that they don't have to defend ACA against ideas that would actually work.  A sycophantic media and the legions of useful idiots who support Obama keep the lie alive.

So now comes the question:  Is Pangea a colossally ignorant fool or just another garden-variety, maliciously partisan liar?

Ignorance is bliss, ain't it?

https://www.google.com/#q=Heritage+Foundation+and+the+ACA

So you did a Google search.  Congratulations.  Did you actually read the Heritage report?  Yes, it contains the word mandate!  Yes, it talks about every American having access to health care.  IT'S EVEN IN ENGLISH!!!!!!  SAME AS THE ACA!!!!!

Maybe if you had an attention span longer than whatever it is you carry around in  your X-boxershorts, you could have read the parts where it states that employers should have no role in providing health insurance.  Maybe you could have read the parts where it strongly urged that insurance coverage consist of catastrophic coverage with low premiums and high deductibles and that the insurance plans come with individual Health Savings Accounts where part of each premium would be deposited in a savings accoun ...


I'm neither arguing in favor of the farking law nor in opposition to the farking law...asshole.

But god farking dammit, that mandate originated at Heritage. And no matter how much Heritage tries to distance themselves from it, no human being should ever, and I mean ever, let them off the hook for this piece of shiat idea.

And conratufarkinglations on health care snobbery....and I thought beer snobbery sucked.

Here's a story that links to the original publication with Heritage's dirty greasy fingerprints all over the god damned mandate.

http://americablog.com/2013/10/original-1989-document-heritage-found at ion-created-obamacares-individual-mandate.html
 
2013-12-31 05:24:07 PM
So she was the one that was supposed to be "in charge" and the White House is being courted to appoint a CEO like many of the State run exchanges. The Administration is saying a CEO (not Czar) isn't even a consideration. However, this "retirement" smells of a changing wind and a CEO appointment on the horizon - Quickest link I can find before drinking games begin...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101301138
 
2013-12-31 06:19:14 PM

Mr. Right: Pangea: Mr. Right: Pangea: The ACA is constructed from ideas promoted by the American Heritage Foundation. I fully expect the Republicans to take credit for it once it becomes a success. It's not as if they have any other ideas, considering these are already their ideas.

The notion that ACA is anything like ideas promoted by Heritage is a lie promulgated by rabidly partisan Democrats desperate to find some kind of cover when ACA blows up and destroys the health insurance coverage of most of the middle class.  That lie is then parroted by idiots who don't have the intelligence to understand either ACA or the Heritage report.

And believe it or not, Republicans and Conservatives have come up with plenty of other ideas.  Some are good, others are not. But the lie that his opposition has no ideas has been thrown around by Obama and his minions so that they don't have to defend ACA against ideas that would actually work.  A sycophantic media and the legions of useful idiots who support Obama keep the lie alive.

So now comes the question:  Is Pangea a colossally ignorant fool or just another garden-variety, maliciously partisan liar?

So your position is that getting more people to enroll in the health pools is what will destroy insurance, and that Republicans have actually offered "plenty of other ideas."

Just because you flex your vocabulary, while simultaneously speaking condescendingly and in an authoritative voice, doesn't make reality match up with your claims.

Please illustrate some of these viable alternatives the Republicans were offering while taking their 40 plus votes to defund the ACA.

You obviously have no idea what the impact of ACA is going to be, and you have no idea what the Heritage plan is.

Just one idea that conservatives have come up with, and which they got plugged into the Kennedy Kassebaum act and which Bush tried to build on in 2006 but was blocked by Democrats, is HSAs.  They are a plan that has been proven to work, to be cost effective for those lucky enough to qualify, and they have been a vehicle for middle class wage earners to build wealth.  Insurance companies don't have as much throughput or control with HSAs but I and everyone I know fortunate to have them absolutely love them.  Obama has ridiculed them and done his best to destroy them in ACA.  But demanding that I illustrate their plans "while taking their 40 plus votes to defund the ACA " is clever because they never included plans in those votes.  That in no way negates the fact that plans have been put forward but ignored by Obama so that he doesn't have to debate them.

ACA is another step towards socialism.  I know that the classic definition of socialism is when the government owns the means of production but one needs not hold title if he has usurped complete control, and the government has usurped control over a huge percentage of individual lives as well as corporate activity.  If that is what voters want, then so be it.  But liberals like to think they're so smart and they like to think they have a lock on science and intelligence.  Which always leaves me wondering why they are pushing so hard to adopt a system that has been demonstrated to fail every single time it has been tried while they fight so hard to destroy the system of free-market capitalism that has created more wealth in the world and has elevated more people in the world out of poverty than all other economic systems combined.  Why do they insist on replicating a North Korean economy when we could do what we taught South Korea?


You seriously sound mentally ill. Enjoy the convoluted reality you've fabricated from your paranoid delusions. I hope you don't kill anyone. I'll leave you with the concession that I am a strong supporter of HSAs and enjoy mine.
 
2013-12-31 06:53:24 PM

X-boxershorts: Here's a story that links to the original publication with Heritage's dirty greasy fingerprints all over the god damned mandate.


Yes, Heritage is in favor of mandating that everyone have insurance.  But they specifically say that employers should NOT be involved in providing insurance.  The model they promoted is more like automobile insurance:  Have insurance for catastrophes; cover day to day and maintenance out of pocket.  The insurance system, not the health care system, has been broken in this country for a long time.  The biggest culprit is the first dollar coverage plans.  Those are precisely the plans that ACA mandates.   That is the polar opposite of what Heritage promoted.  So if it  makes you feel good to say that Heritage used the word mandate, you win.  If you think the Heritage plan is remotely like ACA, you're dumber than red brick.  My original argument was that stating that ACA is based in the Heritage plan is dead wrong.  That statement stands, even if Heritage used the word mandate as a footer on every damned page.
 
2013-12-31 07:03:10 PM

Mr. Right: X-boxershorts: Here's a story that links to the original publication with Heritage's dirty greasy fingerprints all over the god damned mandate.

Yes, Heritage is in favor of mandating that everyone have insurance.  But they specifically say that employers should NOT be involved in providing insurance.  The model they promoted is more like automobile insurance:  Have insurance for catastrophes; cover day to day and maintenance out of pocket.  The insurance system, not the health care system, has been broken in this country for a long time.  The biggest culprit is the first dollar coverage plans.  Those are precisely the plans that ACA mandates.   That is the polar opposite of what Heritage promoted.  So if it  makes you feel good to say that Heritage used the word mandate, you win.  If you think the Heritage plan is remotely like ACA, you're dumber than red brick.  My original argument was that stating that ACA is based in the Heritage plan is dead wrong.  That statement stands, even if Heritage used the word mandate as a footer on every damned page.


I'm sorry if thatoffends you, but I understand. Nothing worthwhile has ever come forth from the Heritage Foundation.
 
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