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(Some Guy)   Conservative blogger still against Obamacare even after being hospitalized without insurance. Bonus: his boss set up a fund to pay medical bills, which most bosses call a "group plan"   (readingisforsnobs.com) divider line 91
    More: Sad, health insurance, Saul Alinsky  
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2415 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Dec 2013 at 12:49 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



91 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-31 11:15:51 AM
Neddy doens't believe in insurance, he considers it a form of gambling.
 
2013-12-31 11:30:05 AM

vernonFL: Neddy doens't believe in insurance, he considers it a form of gambling.


Also airbags.

The Church opposes them for some reason.
 
2013-12-31 11:50:10 AM
Health insurance did not exist before Obamacare.
He had no health insurance options before Obamacare.
Because of Obamacare, he would automatically have health insurance now.

none of these statements are true.
 
2013-12-31 11:52:09 AM

SlothB77: Health insurance did not exist before Obamacare.
He had no health insurance options before Obamacare.
Because of Obamacare, he would automatically have health insurance now.

none of these statements are true.


You're assuming his failing liver wasn't a pre-existing condition which it most likely was as it is detected from a very standard blood test.
 
2013-12-31 11:53:27 AM
So, he's a filthy moocher begging for scraps from his betters rather than curing himself with bootstrappery and a healthy draught of Vitamin Jesus?
 
2013-12-31 12:00:10 PM
He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.
 
2013-12-31 12:07:06 PM

mrshowrules: You're assuming his failing liver wasn't a pre-existing condition which it most likely was as it is detected from a very standard blood test.


It certainly would be now at least.
 
2013-12-31 12:14:14 PM

DamnYankees: mrshowrules: You're assuming his failing liver wasn't a pre-existing condition which it most likely was as it is detected from a very standard blood test.

It certainly would be now at least.


So he has no choice but to be a hypocrite now.
 
2013-12-31 12:24:34 PM

mrshowrules: DamnYankees: mrshowrules: You're assuming his failing liver wasn't a pre-existing condition which it most likely was as it is detected from a very standard blood test.

It certainly would be now at least.

So he has no choice but to be a hypocrite now.


a Conservative hypocrite?  does such a creature even exist?
 
2013-12-31 12:32:40 PM

make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.


He can always just borrow more money. It's free, right?
 
2013-12-31 12:35:43 PM

SlothB77: Health insurance did not exist before Obamacare.
He had no health insurance options before Obamacare.
Because of Obamacare, he would automatically have health insurance now.

none of these statements are true.


But 'Death Panels' and 'government takeover' are still true, right?
 
2013-12-31 12:53:12 PM
I've come to the conclusion that most conservative opposition to Obamacare is rooted in basic inexperience and ignorance of the costs of medical care.

Case in point: the guy from TFA thinks the equation "no insurance" + "in a hospital bed with a failing liver" can be solved for less than or equal to $25,000.
 
2013-12-31 12:53:26 PM

SlothB77: Health insurance did not exist before Obamacare.
He had no health insurance options before Obamacare.
Because of Obamacare, he would automatically have health insurance now.

none of these statements are true.


I'm not sure what your point is.

Before ACA:
--He had no insurance.
--His employer had crap "group coverage" that wasn't really insurance.
--He had to go to charity to pay his medical expenses.

If ACA had been in place:
--His employer would have actually had to provide real insurance (better for him) or tell him to find insurance on his own (effectively the same as now).
--If he didn't have employer provided insurance, he would have had to buy his own insurance (better for him), or have willingly refused to purchase insurance (same as now, with small penalty)
--When he got sick, he would have his expenses paid for by insurance (much better for him), or if he had refused coverage would have to rely on charity to pay his medical expenses (same as now).

So if the ACA had been fully in effect he'd either be in exactly the same boat as he's in now, or he'd be much better off. So where's the downside of the ACA?
 
2013-12-31 12:53:48 PM
I bet he left owing the hospital money that he won't ever pay.
 
2013-12-31 12:54:09 PM
Maybe he should ask Ayn Rand for some advice.
 
2013-12-31 12:55:17 PM

Karac: I've come to the conclusion that most conservative opposition to Obamacare is rooted in basic inexperience and ignorance of the costs of medical care.

Case in point: the guy from TFA thinks the equation "no insurance" + "in a hospital bed with a failing liver" can be solved for less than or equal to $25,000.


No...he doesn't.
 
2013-12-31 12:55:30 PM

make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.




He sure wasn't very boot-strappy for a Republican.
 
2013-12-31 12:57:02 PM
My brother-in-law is one of these idiots... Lives in MA, never got insurance and has been paying the fine every year. He had a heart attack a few months back, and the hospital enrolled him in MAHealth as he was unemployed and had no income...

Dumbass fills his prescriptions without using the insurance he now has and still pisses and moans how he can't afford his medication.
 
2013-12-31 01:10:40 PM

Karac: I've come to the conclusion that most conservative opposition to Obamacare is rooted in basic inexperience and ignorance of the costs of medical care.

Case in point: the guy from TFA thinks the equation "no insurance" + "in a hospital bed with a failing liver" can be solved for less than or equal to $25,000.


Correct, but you can simplify it even further.

"Conservative opposition is rooted in basic inexperience and ignorance."

Apply to all topics. I wish I was joking, but this is factually true.
 
2013-12-31 01:11:40 PM

Cpl.D: Maybe he should ask Ayn Rand for some advice.


Ayn Rand is kind of busy right.  She has been reincarnated as a blowup doll that currently resides in a box that is under Paul Ryan's bed.
 
2013-12-31 01:12:27 PM

Weaver95: make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.

He can always just borrow more money. It's free, right?


Actually, I think he can just buy more money.
 
2013-12-31 01:13:03 PM
Why is insurance rates with coveredca twice that of utahs fed exchange?

They also have a lot less options...

To be honest I prefer half price with crappy website...
 
2013-12-31 01:13:08 PM

keylock71: My brother-in-law is one of these idiots... Lives in MA, never got insurance and has been paying the fine every year. He had a heart attack a few months back, and the hospital enrolled him in MAHealth as he was unemployed and had no income...

Dumbass fills his prescriptions without using the insurance he now has and still pisses and moans how he can't afford his medication.


Maybe he should have the hospital check him out for brain damage as well?
 
2013-12-31 01:13:45 PM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.



He sure wasn't very boot-strappy for a Republican.


Isn't that kind of what conservative/teabaggy/libertarian types believe, though? Yes, it's your own fault if you're poor because bootstraps and comma therefore. But don't they also think that if people are poor and need assistance that providing it should not be a government function but it should be provided by private charity? So taking charity doesn't make him a traitor to his beliefs. He's somehow entitled to charity because he's inherently better than others or something. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
 
2013-12-31 01:14:49 PM

make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.


Difficulty: Daily Kos set up a fund and a bunch of their readers donated money towards his health care.
 
2013-12-31 01:15:28 PM

MrSplifferton: Why is insurance rates with coveredca twice that of utahs fed exchange?

They also have a lot less options...

To be honest I prefer half price with crappy website...


Mostly COL makes everything cheaper the less urban a state is.
 
2013-12-31 01:18:18 PM

sdd2000: keylock71: My brother-in-law is one of these idiots... Lives in MA, never got insurance and has been paying the fine every year. He had a heart attack a few months back, and the hospital enrolled him in MAHealth as he was unemployed and had no income...

Dumbass fills his prescriptions without using the insurance he now has and still pisses and moans how he can't afford his medication.

Maybe he should have the hospital check him out for brain damage as well?


Seriously... I've been of the opinion he has some mental issues for a long time.

And yes, he's a total hard-core, right-wing, GOP voting stooge. Listens to Limbaugh, hates Obama, hates Liz Warren, still has a Scott Brown sticker on his car, complains about the lazy "moochers", etc. etc.

I just make sure I don't talk politics when he's over for the holidays.
 
2013-12-31 01:18:20 PM
I was in hospital visiting a relative last week, and though it was outrageous that the coffee for non-patients was £1.20.

/British people's problems.
 
2013-12-31 01:18:52 PM

Serious Black: make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.

Difficulty: Daily Kos set up a fund and a bunch of their readers donated money towards his health care.


That's the delicious part.
 
2013-12-31 01:19:01 PM

MrSplifferton: Why is insurance rates with coveredca twice that of utahs fed exchange?

They also have a lot less options...

To be honest I prefer half price with crappy website...


The insurance company's answer is that it's cheaper to insure someone in Utah compared to California.

The real answer?  Because Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats refused to allow a vote on either a national exchange system or a public option.  Both of these things would have placed further downward pressure on costs.
 
2013-12-31 01:21:50 PM

Grungehamster: MrSplifferton: Why is insurance rates with coveredca twice that of utahs fed exchange?

They also have a lot less options...

To be honest I prefer half price with crappy website...

Mostly COL makes everything cheaper the less urban a state is.


It was just surprising to me. I can get a platinum plan for 666/month with 1k/2k deductible 1.5k/3k max out of pocket in Utah.

Similar plan was over 1100/month in ca.

I would have thought the state exchanges would have gotten a better deal then states using the fed exchange.
 
2013-12-31 01:23:46 PM

make me some tea: Serious Black: make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.

Difficulty: Daily Kos set up a fund and a bunch of their readers donated money towards his health care.

That's the delicious part.


I've been wondering something. Does it seem odd to you (or anyone else really) that cases like this and Jim Inhofe show the libbiest of the liberals are more empathetic to people outside of their tribe than conservatives are to people inside their tribe?
 
2013-12-31 01:26:20 PM

Serious Black: make me some tea: Serious Black: make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.

Difficulty: Daily Kos set up a fund and a bunch of their readers donated money towards his health care.

That's the delicious part.

I've been wondering something. Does it seem odd to you (or anyone else really) that cases like this and Jim Inhofe show the libbiest of the liberals are more empathetic to people outside of their tribe than conservatives are to people inside their tribe?



Level of empathy for those in situations you've never personally experienced is one of the foundations of why people are on the left or right.
 
2013-12-31 01:30:27 PM
This is not a health care plan.

img.fark.net
 
2013-12-31 01:31:45 PM

make me some tea: Serious Black: make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.

Difficulty: Daily Kos set up a fund and a bunch of their readers donated money towards his health care.

That's the delicious part.



....So he could get healthy and launch incrediby vicious and hateful attacks on them.

You know why people don't like liberals? Because they lose. If liberals are so farking smart, how come they lose so goddamn always? - The Newsroom

What do you think wopuld have happened if Markos Moulitsas got sick due to his own stupidity? I guarantee you someone from Powerline, Twitchy, Instapundit, Redstate and/or Gateway Pundit would have snuck into the hospital and tried to pull the plug.  Good God, liberals. Grow a pair, would you?!
 
2013-12-31 01:35:36 PM

nmrsnr: If ACA had been in place:
--His employer would have actually had to provide real insurance (better for him) or tell him to find insurance on his own (effectively the same as now).
--If he didn't have employer provided insurance, he would have had to buy his own insurance (better for him), or have willingly refused to purchase insurance (same as now, with small penalty)
--When he got sick, he would have his expenses paid for by insurance (much better for him), or if he had refused coverage would have to rely on charity to pay his medical expenses (same as now).


-- Affordable insurance would be available to him without an employer-sponsored group plan.

/ Self-employed
// Getting insurance tomorrow after 4 years without
/// Thanks Obama!
 
2013-12-31 01:37:55 PM

Bungles: Serious Black: make me some tea: Serious Black: make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.

Difficulty: Daily Kos set up a fund and a bunch of their readers donated money towards his health care.

That's the delicious part.

I've been wondering something. Does it seem odd to you (or anyone else really) that cases like this and Jim Inhofe show the libbiest of the liberals are more empathetic to people outside of their tribe than conservatives are to people inside their tribe?


Level of empathy for those in situations you've never personally experienced is one of the foundations of why people are on the left or right.


I'm well aware that liberals tend to rate higher on avoidance of harm on the moral foundations test. But if you can't muster up empathy for somebody in your own tribe, then what's the point of tribal behavior in the first place?
 
2013-12-31 01:44:07 PM

MrSplifferton: I would have thought the state exchanges would have gotten a better deal then states using the fed exchange.


Who is running the exchange shouldn't have any effect on prices.  Its simply a way to make it easier to compare plans.

My hunch is California has higher medical costs due to a larger uninsured population running up costs by using the ER as free healthcare.
 
2013-12-31 01:45:55 PM
He should be the first non-Republican hypocrite in recent memory and die a painful, preventable death due to his personal decisions.

Take responsibility for your actions and I'll move my level of respect from none to "tiny violin."
 
2013-12-31 01:54:59 PM

keylock71: My brother-in-law is one of these idiots... Lives in MA, never got insurance and has been paying the fine every year. He had a heart attack a few months back, and the hospital enrolled him in MAHealth as he was unemployed and had no income...

Dumbass fills his prescriptions without using the insurance he now has and still pisses and moans how he can't afford his medication.


You should maybe attack him from a different direction. Tell him that he is sticking it to the liberals when he fills his prescriptions using the insurance. After all when he pays full price he's subsidizing some lazy bastards, right? Then everyone wins. He gets his meds and saves money, plus he feels like he is hurting his political rivals.
 
2013-12-31 01:57:44 PM

Cpl.D: Maybe he should ask Ayn Rand for some advice.


Collect Social Security?
 
2013-12-31 02:04:11 PM

ShawnDoc: My hunch is California has higher medical costs due to a larger uninsured population running up costs by using the ER as free healthcare.


There are a lot of Republican areas of California, yes.
 
2013-12-31 02:07:43 PM
i.huffpost.com
 
2013-12-31 02:13:28 PM

mrshowrules: DamnYankees: mrshowrules: You're assuming his failing liver wasn't a pre-existing condition which it most likely was as it is detected from a very standard blood test.

It certainly would be now at least.

So he has no choice but to be a hypocrite now.


How very Randian of him.
 
2013-12-31 02:18:52 PM

ShawnDoc: MrSplifferton: I would have thought the state exchanges would have gotten a better deal then states using the fed exchange.

Who is running the exchange shouldn't have any effect on prices.  Its simply a way to make it easier to compare plans.

My hunch is California has higher medical costs due to a larger uninsured population running up costs by using the ER as free healthcare.


I guess I was confused on that part. It had sounded like state run exchanges would have their insurance commissioner negotiate prices, while the fed exchange would not have had that luxury. Which is why I figured states would be able to get a better deal then the fed exchange.

Still $500/month is a big difference in cost, I wouldn't expect the difference to be that huge.
 
2013-12-31 02:37:45 PM

edmo: This is not a health care plan.

[img.fark.net image 320x240]


So much this. I've attended my fair share of charity bowling fundraisers for a couple who needed help paying off medical bills for their twins who were born premature and in the NICU for months. And I've heard my fair share of people complaining about the ACA and 'soshulizm' during these events. The parents or family never said anything about the subject....it was just a few of the attendees saying this crap. But the fact that they believe a damn bowling tourney every year is going to cover hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills is what simply kills me.
 
2013-12-31 02:42:40 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: So, he's a filthy moocher begging for scraps from his betters rather than curing himself with bootstrappery and a healthy draught of Vitamin Jesus?


Love it!

...so ...where can I buy some?
 
2013-12-31 02:45:27 PM

ShawnDoc: MrSplifferton: I would have thought the state exchanges would have gotten a better deal then states using the fed exchange.

Who is running the exchange shouldn't have any effect on prices.  Its simply a way to make it easier to compare plans.

My hunch is California has higher medical costs due to a larger uninsured population running up costs by using the ER as free healthcare.


This is my hunch as well. More ethnically homogenous states see more willing participation in these kinds of systems. The ACA penalty for no insurance is greater than zero, but probably not high enough to overcome Joe Sixpack's reluctance to pay even more to fund the care of people he doesn't know, doesn't like, and assumes must have fallen ill thru fault of their own.
 
2013-12-31 02:48:31 PM

GentDirkly: ShawnDoc: MrSplifferton: I would have thought the state exchanges would have gotten a better deal then states using the fed exchange.

Who is running the exchange shouldn't have any effect on prices.  Its simply a way to make it easier to compare plans.

My hunch is California has higher medical costs due to a larger uninsured population running up costs by using the ER as free healthcare.

This is my hunch as well. More ethnically homogenous states see more willing participation in these kinds of systems. The ACA penalty for no insurance is greater than zero, but probably not high enough to overcome Joe Sixpack's reluctance to pay even more to fund the care of people he doesn't know, doesn't like, and assumes must have fallen ill thru fault of their own.


It will be a pretty hefty payment by 2016. Someone who makes $1,000,000 but doesn't have insurance will be paying $25,000 at that time. That's more expensive than anything I've heard of except for plans that are literally written on solid gold paper.
 
2013-12-31 02:51:23 PM

keylock71: My brother-in-law is one of these idiots... Lives in MA, never got insurance and has been paying the fine every year. He had a heart attack a few months back, and the hospital enrolled him in MAHealth as he was unemployed and had no income...

Dumbass fills his prescriptions without using the insurance he now has and still pisses and moans how he can't afford his medication.


There's no cure for stupid.
 
2013-12-31 02:51:58 PM

Serious Black: GentDirkly: ShawnDoc: MrSplifferton: I would have thought the state exchanges would have gotten a better deal then states using the fed exchange.

Who is running the exchange shouldn't have any effect on prices.  Its simply a way to make it easier to compare plans.

My hunch is California has higher medical costs due to a larger uninsured population running up costs by using the ER as free healthcare.

This is my hunch as well. More ethnically homogenous states see more willing participation in these kinds of systems. The ACA penalty for no insurance is greater than zero, but probably not high enough to overcome Joe Sixpack's reluctance to pay even more to fund the care of people he doesn't know, doesn't like, and assumes must have fallen ill thru fault of their own.

It will be a pretty hefty payment by 2016. Someone who makes $1,000,000 but doesn't have insurance will be paying $25,000 at that time. That's more expensive than anything I've heard of except for plans that are literally written on solid gold paper.


Lol. Joe Sixpack doesn't make $1,000,000. YMMV, but I'd put Joe right around the 40th percentile of income. Joe is also not necessarily white. Blacks and Hispanics and any other minority group are also suspicious of the needs and ethics of non-group members.
 
2013-12-31 02:56:25 PM

nmrsnr: SlothB77: Health insurance did not exist before Obamacare.
He had no health insurance options before Obamacare.
Because of Obamacare, he would automatically have health insurance now.

none of these statements are true.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Before ACA:
--He had no insurance.
--His employer had crap "group coverage" that wasn't really insurance.
--He had to go to charity to pay his medical expenses.

If ACA had been in place:
--His employer would have actually had to provide real insurance (better for him) or tell him to find insurance on his own (effectively the same as now).
--If he didn't have employer provided insurance, he would have had to buy his own insurance (better for him), or have willingly refused to purchase insurance (same as now, with small penalty)
--When he got sick, he would have his expenses paid for by insurance (much better for him), or if he had refused coverage would have to rely on charity to pay his medical expenses (same as now).

So if the ACA had been fully in effect he'd either be in exactly the same boat as he's in now, or he'd be much better off. So where's the downside of the ACA?


By living in a country where people can be allowed to survive their own incompetence, we're creating a discontented, lazy rabble instead of a thrifty working class.
 
2013-12-31 02:57:01 PM

GentDirkly: Serious Black: GentDirkly: ShawnDoc: MrSplifferton: I would have thought the state exchanges would have gotten a better deal then states using the fed exchange.

Who is running the exchange shouldn't have any effect on prices.  Its simply a way to make it easier to compare plans.

My hunch is California has higher medical costs due to a larger uninsured population running up costs by using the ER as free healthcare.

This is my hunch as well. More ethnically homogenous states see more willing participation in these kinds of systems. The ACA penalty for no insurance is greater than zero, but probably not high enough to overcome Joe Sixpack's reluctance to pay even more to fund the care of people he doesn't know, doesn't like, and assumes must have fallen ill thru fault of their own.

It will be a pretty hefty payment by 2016. Someone who makes $1,000,000 but doesn't have insurance will be paying $25,000 at that time. That's more expensive than anything I've heard of except for plans that are literally written on solid gold paper.

Lol. Joe Sixpack doesn't make $1,000,000. YMMV, but I'd put Joe right around the 40th percentile of income. Joe is also not necessarily white. Blacks and Hispanics and any other minority group are also suspicious of the needs and ethics of non-group members.


Sure, that's not an average case, but for somebody making $50,000, that's still a payment of $1,250. Or for a family of four, it's a bit over $2,000. Not exactly pocket change.
 
2013-12-31 03:03:50 PM
What if we just expand the mandate and allow people to buy bootstraps or insurance?  Bootstraps will allow them to pull themselves up, it will be a one time payment made to Bootstrapper Inc., a proud American company.  These bootsraps are not redeemable at any healthcare facility however.  They can have the same cheap healthcare plan they always wanted without benefits and the rest of us can pay for our healthcare without having to worry about them benefiting from getting treated on our dollar.
 
2013-12-31 03:07:30 PM

ShawnDoc: MrSplifferton: I would have thought the state exchanges would have gotten a better deal then states using the fed exchange.

Who is running the exchange shouldn't have any effect on prices.  Its simply a way to make it easier to compare plans.

My hunch is California has higher medical costs due to a larger uninsured population running up costs by using the ER as free healthcare.


According to this article, here, It's a combination of things.  First, The number of insurance carriers has dwindled due to mergers, failures, acquisitions, and a high entry cost for the market. Secondly, California regulations on privacy and domestic partner coverage, etc., as well a the high cost for hospitals to comply with seismic retrofitting laws have driven up costs. Thirdly, there has been a reduction in the number of GP practices as more and more doctor decide to not participate in HMOs. Finally, specialist utilization has increased greatly, thus the difference in cost between an average doctor's visit and specialist visit has narrowed considerable.  There was not mention of uninsured ER visits.

This article is from 2010.
 
2013-12-31 03:27:47 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: So, he's a filthy moocher begging for scraps from his betters rather than curing himself with bootstrappery and a healthy draught of Vitamin Jesus?


You have just given me a great idea for a product to fleece the rubes.

/copyrighting in 3...2...1...
 
2013-12-31 03:37:48 PM

mrshowrules: SlothB77: Health insurance did not exist before Obamacare.
He had no health insurance options before Obamacare.
Because of Obamacare, he would automatically have health insurance now.

none of these statements are true.

You're assuming his failing liver wasn't a pre-existing condition which it most likely was as it is detected from a very standard blood test.


Even if that were true, I still don't see the problem. Whether he acted foolishly or just stood on his principles, he dealt with the consequences. He's not obligated to change his opinion on the worth of Obamacare because of what happened.
 
2013-12-31 03:40:57 PM

jjorsett: mrshowrules: SlothB77: Health insurance did not exist before Obamacare.
He had no health insurance options before Obamacare.
Because of Obamacare, he would automatically have health insurance now.

none of these statements are true.

You're assuming his failing liver wasn't a pre-existing condition which it most likely was as it is detected from a very standard blood test.

Even if that were true, I still don't see the problem. Whether he acted foolishly or just stood on his principles, he dealt with the consequences. He's not obligated to change his opinion on the worth of Obamacare because of what happened.


He didn't deal with the consequences, he begged for other people to pay for his stupidity
 
2013-12-31 03:44:02 PM

jjorsett: mrshowrules: SlothB77: Health insurance did not exist before Obamacare.
He had no health insurance options before Obamacare.
Because of Obamacare, he would automatically have health insurance now.

none of these statements are true.

You're assuming his failing liver wasn't a pre-existing condition which it most likely was as it is detected from a very standard blood test.

Even if that were true, I still don't see the problem. Whether he acted foolishly or just stood on his principles, he dealt with the consequences. He's not obligated to change his opinion on the worth of Obamacare because of what happened.


He dealt with it by deliberately leeching off of other people, including a bunch of the libbiest liberals that have ever liberaled a day in their liberal lives. That's a pretty piss-poor way of being personally responsible for his own decisions, especially given that he rants about a lack of personal responsibility like it's going out of style.
 
2013-12-31 03:49:32 PM

cameroncrazy1984: jjorsett: mrshowrules: SlothB77: Health insurance did not exist before Obamacare.
He had no health insurance options before Obamacare.
Because of Obamacare, he would automatically have health insurance now.

none of these statements are true.

You're assuming his failing liver wasn't a pre-existing condition which it most likely was as it is detected from a very standard blood test.

Even if that were true, I still don't see the problem. Whether he acted foolishly or just stood on his principles, he dealt with the consequences. He's not obligated to change his opinion on the worth of Obamacare because of what happened.

He didn't deal with the consequences, he begged for other people to pay for his stupidity


I have done quite enough reading about this Caleb Howe and I have not gotten an answer to this question:  Has Caleb Howe signed up for medical coverage, or has he decided to be a perpetual liability to his family and friends?
 
2013-12-31 03:57:21 PM

Serious Black: GentDirkly: Serious Black: GentDirkly: ShawnDoc: MrSplifferton: I would have thought the state exchanges would have gotten a better deal then states using the fed exchange.

Who is running the exchange shouldn't have any effect on prices.  Its simply a way to make it easier to compare plans.

My hunch is California has higher medical costs due to a larger uninsured population running up costs by using the ER as free healthcare.

This is my hunch as well. More ethnically homogenous states see more willing participation in these kinds of systems. The ACA penalty for no insurance is greater than zero, but probably not high enough to overcome Joe Sixpack's reluctance to pay even more to fund the care of people he doesn't know, doesn't like, and assumes must have fallen ill thru fault of their own.

It will be a pretty hefty payment by 2016. Someone who makes $1,000,000 but doesn't have insurance will be paying $25,000 at that time. That's more expensive than anything I've heard of except for plans that are literally written on solid gold paper.

Lol. Joe Sixpack doesn't make $1,000,000. YMMV, but I'd put Joe right around the 40th percentile of income. Joe is also not necessarily white. Blacks and Hispanics and any other minority group are also suspicious of the needs and ethics of non-group members.

Sure, that's not an average case, but for somebody making $50,000, that's still a payment of $1,250. Or for a family of four, it's a bit over $2,000. Not exactly pocket change.


Joe doesn't really understand the law and he'll probably have to see how the tax return works out before he notices. And if he does notice, his premiums over the year will be 5 to 6 times the penalty amount. The premiums are so high because he lives in a state with a high rate of adverse selection. Remember? It's self perpetuating.
 
2013-12-31 04:36:05 PM
This is basically affluenza except instead of being rich and never learning the consequences of his decisions he never learned the consequences because of other people's charity. When your plan is to freeload off others instead of paying yourself you don't deserve to call yourself a conservative.
 
2013-12-31 05:03:09 PM

El Dudereno: Mr. Coffee Nerves: So, he's a filthy moocher begging for scraps from his betters rather than curing himself with bootstrappery and a healthy draught of Vitamin Jesus?

You have just given me a great idea for a product to fleece the rubes.

/copyrighting in 3...2...1...


Oddly enough, copyright is the only form of intellectual property which has no application in this scenario.
 
2013-12-31 05:12:40 PM

SlothB77: Health insurance did not exist before Obamacare.
He had no health insurance options before Obamacare.
Because of Obamacare, he would automatically have health insurance now.

none of these statements are true.


Trolls did not exist before Fark
There were no places for trolls before Fark
Because of Fark, you have a place to troll.

You are a dumbass.
 
2013-12-31 05:13:02 PM
Eh?  Before Obamacare it was illegal for a hospital to turn away someone in need.  Nothing has really changed.
 
2013-12-31 05:15:21 PM

nmrsnr: So where's the downside of the ACA?


It was put into law by a black Democrat instead of the rich white Republican male who created it in the first place. Therefore, it sucks and will give you butt cancer.
 
2013-12-31 05:32:23 PM

seniorgato: Eh?  Before Obamacare it was illegal for a hospital to turn away someone in need.  Nothing has really changed.


Where did you get this idea? Hospitals were always free to stabilize a patient and then kick him to the curb, even if he remained terribly ill. Still can, for that matter.
 
2013-12-31 05:33:24 PM

Bungles: Serious Black: make me some tea: Serious Black: make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.

Difficulty: Daily Kos set up a fund and a bunch of their readers donated money towards his health care.

That's the delicious part.

I've been wondering something. Does it seem odd to you (or anyone else really) that cases like this and Jim Inhofe show the libbiest of the liberals are more empathetic to people outside of their tribe than conservatives are to people inside their tribe?


Level of empathy for those in situations you've never personally experienced is one of the foundations of why people are on the left or right.


You can have sympathy for someone in a situation you've never experienced. But not empathy. If you disagree, it's because you don't know what the words mean.
 
2013-12-31 05:41:41 PM

BMulligan: El Dudereno: Mr. Coffee Nerves: So, he's a filthy moocher begging for scraps from his betters rather than curing himself with bootstrappery and a healthy draught of Vitamin Jesus?

You have just given me a great idea for a product to fleece the rubes.

/copyrighting in 3...2...1...

Oddly enough, copyright is the only form of intellectual property which has no application in this scenario.


I have no product to sell yet. I can't really patent anything.

Trademark?

/genuinely curious
 
2013-12-31 05:46:01 PM
Shouldn't he let God's will take its course? Why does he hate God, anyway?
 
2013-12-31 06:45:37 PM

seniorgato: Before Obamacare it was illegal for a hospital to turn away someone in need.


Nope.

If they have an emergency department, they can't refuse emergency care.

Many hospitals eliminated their emergency departments so they can refuse care.
 
2013-12-31 06:46:23 PM

jjorsett: mrshowrules: SlothB77: Health insurance did not exist before Obamacare.
He had no health insurance options before Obamacare.
Because of Obamacare, he would automatically have health insurance now.

none of these statements are true.

You're assuming his failing liver wasn't a pre-existing condition which it most likely was as it is detected from a very standard blood test.

Even if that were true, I still don't see the problem. Whether he acted foolishly or just stood on his principles, he dealt with the consequences. He's not obligated to change his opinion on the worth of Obamacare because of what happened.


Yes, but now, the only way he can ever have insurance is due to Obamacare, so he either has to be thankful for that fact or admit that he is full of shiat.
 
2013-12-31 07:34:20 PM

Bungles: I was in hospital visiting a relative last week, and though it was outrageous that the coffee for non-patients was £1.20.

/British people's problems.


Lol British people drink tea.
 
2013-12-31 07:42:21 PM
Do they still call themselves the Party of Personal Responsibility or have they figured out how dumb that sounds now?
 
2013-12-31 07:59:50 PM
All Canadians have full health care coverage at a lower per capita cost than Americans pay. I think it's the "I got mine, screw you" attitude of Americans that will be your undoing.
 
2013-12-31 08:11:44 PM

Nasty Celt: All Canadians have full health care coverage at a lower per capita cost than Americans pay. I think it's the "I got mine, screw you" attitude of Americans that will be your undoing.


About half per capita if you include insurance premiums as well as taxes.

We pay the same as US per capita just in terms of Government spending.  The US literally pays twice as much just to deny people health care and reduce health outcomes.
 
2013-12-31 08:13:52 PM

quatchi: Do they still call themselves the Party of Personal Responsibility or have they figured out how dumb that sounds now?


They have time with words and such.
 
2013-12-31 08:14:39 PM

mrshowrules: quatchi: Do they still call themselves the Party of Personal Responsibility or have they figured out how dumb that sounds now?

They have a hard time with words and such.


/yes, I see the irony in getting that statement wrong.
 
2013-12-31 08:39:56 PM

El Dudereno: BMulligan: El Dudereno: Mr. Coffee Nerves: So, he's a filthy moocher begging for scraps from his betters rather than curing himself with bootstrappery and a healthy draught of Vitamin Jesus?

You have just given me a great idea for a product to fleece the rubes.

/copyrighting in 3...2...1...

Oddly enough, copyright is the only form of intellectual property which has no application in this scenario.

I have no product to sell yet. I can't really patent anything.

Trademark?

/genuinely curious


Yes.

The short version of the difference between patents, copyrights and trademarks:

Copyright is for movies, books, pictures, plays, that sort of thing (including some computer programs). Protects creators of original work from others making profit from those creations. You don't have to register your work at the copyright office to claim copyright but it helps. I believe it's a fairly small one-time fee for copyright registration and it lasts 70 years after author's death or up to 120 years from creation date if it's an anonymous work or a work for hire.

Trademarks protect brand names and individuals/companies by giving them the right to exclusive use of a brand name, logo and/or an advertising slogan. An application needs to be made in order to obtain legal protection and a fee paid and you have to basically pay for its upkeep every so often in order to maintain your trademark protection.

Patents protect inventions, some kinds of plants, "compositions of matter" and some kinds of business processes. The criteria are that what you're patenting is novel and not obvious to someone who has an ordinary level of training in the field that the patent falls into. You can't patent a trade secret because patents require disclosure (making it no longer a trade secret, one of the most famous of which is the formula for Coca-Cola). Patent protection lasts 20 years from the date the patent is filed (not issued) and the costs vary for filing patents.

Some things could have more than one kind of protection. For example, a new drug could be patented, the logo for the drug could be trademarked and the directions for use could be copyrighted.

/I am bored and channeling my paralegal training.
 
2013-12-31 08:58:33 PM

Nasty Celt: All Canadians have full health care coverage at a lower per capita cost than Americans pay. I think it's the "I got mine, screw you" attitude of Americans that will be your undoing.


Far be it from me to white-knight the one-percent, but I think you're reading the situation incorrectly. It's not so much the "I got mine, screw you" as it is the puritan streak that has run through the American psyche since 1630: "you don't work, you don't eat."

The idea of public welfare and all its manifestations are pure anathema to American fundies, rich and poor, and it doesn't take much to get them fired up about it.
 
2013-12-31 09:36:27 PM

BMulligan: El Dudereno: Mr. Coffee Nerves: So, he's a filthy moocher begging for scraps from his betters rather than curing himself with bootstrappery and a healthy draught of Vitamin Jesus?

You have just given me a great idea for a product to fleece the rubes.

/copyrighting in 3...2...1...

Oddly enough, copyright is the only form of intellectual property which has no application in this scenario.


It's comments like these that keep me coming back Fark.

/would lol again
 
2013-12-31 10:06:46 PM
jaytkay:

/ Self-employed
// Getting insurance tomorrow after 4 years without
/// Thanks Obama!


Ditto.
 
2013-12-31 10:26:20 PM

Needlessly Complicated: El Dudereno: BMulligan: El Dudereno: Mr. Coffee Nerves: So, he's a filthy moocher begging for scraps from his betters rather than curing himself with bootstrappery and a healthy draught of Vitamin Jesus?

You have just given me a great idea for a product to fleece the rubes.

/copyrighting in 3...2...1...

Oddly enough, copyright is the only form of intellectual property which has no application in this scenario.

I have no product to sell yet. I can't really patent anything.

Trademark?

/genuinely curious

Yes.

The short version of the difference between patents, copyrights and trademarks:

Copyright is for movies, books, pictures, plays, that sort of thing (including some computer programs). Protects creators of original work from others making profit from those creations. You don't have to register your work at the copyright office to claim copyright but it helps. I believe it's a fairly small one-time fee for copyright registration and it lasts 70 years after author's death or up to 120 years from creation date if it's an anonymous work or a work for hire.

Trademarks protect brand names and individuals/companies by giving them the right to exclusive use of a brand name, logo and/or an advertising slogan. An application needs to be made in order to obtain legal protection and a fee paid and you have to basically pay for its upkeep every so often in order to maintain your trademark protection.

Patents protect inventions, some kinds of plants, "compositions of matter" and some kinds of business processes. The criteria are that what you're patenting is novel and not obvious to someone who has an ordinary level of training in the field that the patent falls into. You can't patent a trade secret because patents require disclosure (making it no longer a trade secret, one of the most famous of which is the formula for Coca-Cola). Patent protection lasts 20 years from the date the patent is filed (not issued) and the costs vary for filing patents.

Some things could have more than one kind of protection. For example, a new drug could be patented, the logo for the drug could be trademarked and the directions for use could be copyrighted.

/I am bored and channeling my paralegal training.


Good answer. All I would add is trade secret.
 
2013-12-31 11:01:22 PM

keylock71: sdd2000: keylock71: My brother-in-law is one of these idiots... Lives in MA, never got insurance and has been paying the fine every year. He had a heart attack a few months back, and the hospital enrolled him in MAHealth as he was unemployed and had no income...

Dumbass fills his prescriptions without using the insurance he now has and still pisses and moans how he can't afford his medication.

Maybe he should have the hospital check him out for brain damage as well?

Seriously... I've been of the opinion he has some mental issues for a long time.

And yes, he's a total hard-core, right-wing, GOP voting stooge. Listens to Limbaugh, hates Obama, hates Liz Warren, still has a Scott Brown sticker on his car, complains about the lazy "moochers", etc. etc.

I just make sure I don't talk politics when he's over for the holidays.


He's unemployed on the public dole and complains about lazy moochers? Dafuq?
 
2014-01-01 12:09:05 AM
My father hates Obamacare (with full whargarbl). In four months him and I are opening a small business. I'm pretty sure his head is going to explode when he realizes we're going to have to get our insurance through the ACA (not Healthcare.gov luckily, thanks to not living in a shiathole state).

/ACA is still a POS
 
2014-01-01 12:44:48 AM

Sim Tree: keylock71: sdd2000: keylock71: My brother-in-law is one of these idiots... Lives in MA, never got insurance and has been paying the fine every year. He had a heart attack a few months back, and the hospital enrolled him in MAHealth as he was unemployed and had no income...

Dumbass fills his prescriptions without using the insurance he now has and still pisses and moans how he can't afford his medication.

Maybe he should have the hospital check him out for brain damage as well?

Seriously... I've been of the opinion he has some mental issues for a long time.

And yes, he's a total hard-core, right-wing, GOP voting stooge. Listens to Limbaugh, hates Obama, hates Liz Warren, still has a Scott Brown sticker on his car, complains about the lazy "moochers", etc. etc.

I just make sure I don't talk politics when he's over for the holidays.

He's unemployed on the public dole and complains about lazy moochers? Dafuq?


If he's anything like a certain embarrassing branch of my family tree, he's getting a hand up to get back on his feet.

But Those People(tm)? They're just getting a handout.
 
2014-01-01 02:22:51 AM

dirkfunk: My father hates Obamacare (with full whargarbl). In four months him and I are opening a small business. I'm pretty sure his head is going to explode when he realizes we're going to have to get our insurance through the ACA (not Healthcare.gov luckily, thanks to not living in a shiathole state).

/ACA is still a POS


You don't have to get your insurance through the exchange.  It's just that you'll likely get a better deal that you can more quickly/accurately compared to other offers that way.
 
2014-01-01 10:26:59 AM
What is the account#,his ssn#, his wife's maiden name, his first dog's name. his high school, his first car, the first girl he screwed, his mother's maiden name?
Just asking....
 
2014-01-01 04:56:18 PM

itcamefromschenectady: Bungles: Serious Black: make me some tea: Serious Black: make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.

Difficulty: Daily Kos set up a fund and a bunch of their readers donated money towards his health care.

That's the delicious part.

I've been wondering something. Does it seem odd to you (or anyone else really) that cases like this and Jim Inhofe show the libbiest of the liberals are more empathetic to people outside of their tribe than conservatives are to people inside their tribe?


Level of empathy for those in situations you've never personally experienced is one of the foundations of why people are on the left or right.

You can have sympathy for someone in a situation you've never experienced. But not empathy. If you disagree, it's because you don't know what the words mean.


Ummmm, no, it's you that I think is confused. You can empathise with another - understanding and comprehending their situation from the perspective of their emotional reaction - and not sympathise - ie you know, you simply don't care. Psychopaths can have high empathy and little sympathy.

But in this situation we're talking about not being able to even get to the "know" part.
 
2014-01-01 05:29:15 PM

Bungles: itcamefromschenectady: Bungles: Serious Black: make me some tea: Serious Black: make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.

Difficulty: Daily Kos set up a fund and a bunch of their readers donated money towards his health care.

That's the delicious part.

I've been wondering something. Does it seem odd to you (or anyone else really) that cases like this and Jim Inhofe show the libbiest of the liberals are more empathetic to people outside of their tribe than conservatives are to people inside their tribe?


Level of empathy for those in situations you've never personally experienced is one of the foundations of why people are on the left or right.

You can have sympathy for someone in a situation you've never experienced. But not empathy. If you disagree, it's because you don't know what the words mean.

Ummmm, no, it's you that I think is confused. You can empathise with another - understanding and comprehending their situation from the perspective of their emotional reaction - and not sympathise - ie you know, you simply don't care. Psychopaths can have high empathy and little sympathy.

But in this situation we're talking about not being able to even get to the "know" part.


Are you aware you're not contradicting me? I said you can have sympathy without empathy, and you said you can have empathy without sympathy. You haven't actually disagreed with what I posted although I would be interested to see a citation for the claim that "psychopaths can have high empathy".

If you haven't been in a situation yourself, you don't know what the emotional reaction is like, so you can't have empathy.
 
2014-01-01 05:40:51 PM

itcamefromschenectady: Bungles: itcamefromschenectady: Bungles: Serious Black: make me some tea: Serious Black: make me some tea: He should just make himself rich so he doesn't have to rely on the handouts from liberals.

Difficulty: Daily Kos set up a fund and a bunch of their readers donated money towards his health care.

That's the delicious part.

I've been wondering something. Does it seem odd to you (or anyone else really) that cases like this and Jim Inhofe show the libbiest of the liberals are more empathetic to people outside of their tribe than conservatives are to people inside their tribe?


Level of empathy for those in situations you've never personally experienced is one of the foundations of why people are on the left or right.

You can have sympathy for someone in a situation you've never experienced. But not empathy. If you disagree, it's because you don't know what the words mean.

Ummmm, no, it's you that I think is confused. You can empathise with another - understanding and comprehending their situation from the perspective of their emotional reaction - and not sympathise - ie you know, you simply don't care. Psychopaths can have high empathy and little sympathy.

But in this situation we're talking about not being able to even get to the "know" part.

Are you aware you're not contradicting me? I said you can have sympathy without empathy, and you said you can have empathy without sympathy. You haven't actually disagreed with what I posted although I would be interested to see a citation for the claim that "psychopaths can have high empathy".

If you haven't been in a situation yourself, you don't know what the emotional reaction is like, so you can't have empathy.



So you saying that the essential difference is that empathy requires direct personal experience of the same emotional context, and sympathy doesn't?

I don't think that's the basic difference at all, or true. Empathy is about emotional understanding (not necessarily experientially) whereas sympathy is about understanding and also pity or compassion..
 
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