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(MacRumors)   Scary: NSA has had the ability to access your GPS and your video feeds from your original iPhone. Not so scary: the original iPhone doesn't have GPS or a video camera   (macrumors.com) divider line 38
    More: Fail, original iPhone, iPhone, GPS, video cameras, signals intelligences, Jacob Appelbaum, GPRS  
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1762 clicks; posted to Geek » on 31 Dec 2013 at 3:10 AM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



38 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-30 11:41:11 PM  
hitechtabai.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-30 11:46:42 PM  
GPRS != GPS
 
2013-12-31 01:21:35 AM  
probably your current phone, too
 
2013-12-31 02:05:30 AM  

RexTalionis: [hitechtabai.files.wordpress.com image 401x459]


The article was talking about software solutions. You are using a solution based upon triangulation, which certainly is not a software solution
 
2013-12-31 02:39:39 AM  

cman: RexTalionis: [hitechtabai.files.wordpress.com image 401x459]

The article was talking about software solutions. You are using a solution based upon triangulation, which certainly is not a software solution


By law, as of 2005, at least 95% of subscribed phones with all US wireless carriers must be able to report their own position, give or take 300 meters.

They refer to these phones as "location capable", smart or dumb. They use said triangulation methods to determine their position. Ping times to towers basically.

Within dense service areas, the wireless carrier is required by law to have a response time of no more than 6 minutes to a location request.

you know, for "safety".
 
2013-12-31 03:25:31 AM  
Didn't lucius turn this technology off?
 
2013-12-31 03:27:12 AM  
Neato.  If they want to waste their time following me around work all day, more power to them.  I do field service ALL OVER HOUSTON.  Watching me do that ought to cure your insomnia ;)
 
2013-12-31 03:40:52 AM  
The NSA probably has spyware in my penis piercing.

So piss on them.
 
2013-12-31 04:00:21 AM  

cman: RexTalionis: [hitechtabai.files.wordpress.com image 401x459]

The article was talking about software solutions. You are using a solution based upon triangulation, which certainly is not a software solution


The software is one the phone.  Pinging a cell tower from the phone IS a software solution, it's just using physical towers to get the location.

It's how most phone GPS applications word.  Google Maps isn't hitting a GPS satellite, it's using triangulation.  And it's software that runs on your phone.
 
2013-12-31 04:00:49 AM  
Wow, fanboy, it's sure a relief that Apple stopped making iphones after that one year, and had all existing models destroyed, and never again made another version of their iphone's operating system using Apple's swiss cheese security protocols.
 
2013-12-31 04:14:46 AM  

Asa Phelps: cman: RexTalionis: [hitechtabai.files.wordpress.com image 401x459]

The article was talking about software solutions. You are using a solution based upon triangulation, which certainly is not a software solution

By law, as of 2005, at least 95% of subscribed phones with all US wireless carriers must be able to report their own position, give or take 300 meters.

They refer to these phones as "location capable", smart or dumb. They use said triangulation methods to determine their position. Ping times to towers basically.

Within dense service areas, the wireless carrier is required by law to have a response time of no more than 6 minutes to a location request.

you know, for "safety".


it is for safety. its so when you call 911 they can find your dumbass. why do you think they have such a short time limit on the request? the article is about the nsa continually monitering it and without provider requests, which has nothing to do with what you are talking about.
 
2013-12-31 05:04:13 AM  

NickelP: it is for safety. its so when you call 911 they can find your dumbass. why do you think they have such a short time limit on the request? the article is about the nsa continually monitering it and without provider requests, which has nothing to do with what you are talking about.


Yeah, I didn't think anyone in this day and age was unaware that law enforcement and emergency services can track the location of cellphones. The bigger concern is having jealous ex-lovers and other human carbuncles hijack your Find My Phone app to virtually stalk you.
 
2013-12-31 05:35:19 AM  
So the iPhone one even have a camera or GPS? I though all good phones had that?
 
2013-12-31 05:43:41 AM  

NickelP: Asa Phelps: cman: RexTalionis: [hitechtabai.files.wordpress.com image 401x459]

The article was talking about software solutions. You are using a solution based upon triangulation, which certainly is not a software solution

By law, as of 2005, at least 95% of subscribed phones with all US wireless carriers must be able to report their own position, give or take 300 meters.

They refer to these phones as "location capable", smart or dumb. They use said triangulation methods to determine their position. Ping times to towers basically.

Within dense service areas, the wireless carrier is required by law to have a response time of no more than 6 minutes to a location request.

you know, for "safety".

it is for safety. its so when you call 911 they can find your dumbass. why do you think they have such a short time limit on the request? the article is about the nsa continually monitering it and without provider requests, which has nothing to do with what you are talking about.


This is the double edged sword. You want a bank card to spend money with at shops for convenience but that can be used to track you. You want to be able to be reached anywhere but to do that the company must know where you are and that can be used to track you. You want to just push a button on your phone and get a taxi when you are drunk but that tracks you even closer.

Everything good with new tech comes with something bad. I don`t want big brother watching my every move but I do want the pizza guy to find me in a park.

As edgerunner said I am more worried about my ex tracking me than I am the authorities...

Also Geotime (video) is the software that they use to make sense of it all.
 
2013-12-31 05:50:37 AM  
...so?  I don't understand why this is a surprising or bad thing.  Snowdenites keep implying that because the NSA has figured out how to do something cool that will enable them to spy, they're inexplicably using it to spy on Joe Schmoe directly.

Collecting metadata en-masse to index and search?  A legitimate concern of systematic issues that accompany data collection from shared networks where threats communicate in the same pool as the rest of us.

The NSA having the technical ability - like other spy agencies in the world no doubt - to break into someone's phone, get root, and access the entire file system?  Well no shiat.  I would hope they could do that at a minimum.  Is there evidence that they're using this against the wrong people?  Otherwise, what is the point of detailing this?
 
2013-12-31 06:12:19 AM  

dready zim: So the iPhone one even have a camera or GPS? I though all good phones had that?


at the time, it was one of the more feature rich phones.. it had a camera, although only stills, i think video showed up in the 3rd model.although it didn't have a gps it did do the triangulation thing and was pretty accurate.

you're right that by modern standards an iphone 1 is fairly primitive. 6 years is a while in computer times.
 
2013-12-31 06:13:07 AM  

ZipSplat: ...so?  I don't understand why this is a surprising or bad thing.  Snowdenites keep implying that because the NSA has figured out how to do something cool that will enable them to spy, they're inexplicably using it to spy on Joe Schmoe directly.

Collecting metadata en-masse to index and search?  A legitimate concern of systematic issues that accompany data collection from shared networks where threats communicate in the same pool as the rest of us.

The NSA having the technical ability - like other spy agencies in the world no doubt - to break into someone's phone, get root, and access the entire file system?  Well no shiat.  I would hope they could do that at a minimum.  Is there evidence that they're using this against the wrong people?  Otherwise, what is the point of detailing this?


People like you really, genuinely scare me.  Is it willful ignorance, denial, or simply a belief in the moral imperative of big brother?  Honestly.
 
2013-12-31 06:29:14 AM  

AngryDragon: ZipSplat: ...so?  I don't understand why this is a surprising or bad thing.  Snowdenites keep implying that because the NSA has figured out how to do something cool that will enable them to spy, they're inexplicably using it to spy on Joe Schmoe directly.

Collecting metadata en-masse to index and search?  A legitimate concern of systematic issues that accompany data collection from shared networks where threats communicate in the same pool as the rest of us.

The NSA having the technical ability - like other spy agencies in the world no doubt - to break into someone's phone, get root, and access the entire file system?  Well no shiat.  I would hope they could do that at a minimum.  Is there evidence that they're using this against the wrong people?  Otherwise, what is the point of detailing this?

People like you really, genuinely scare me.  Is it willful ignorance, denial, or simply a belief in the moral imperative of big brother?  Honestly.


Where did I express a belief in the moral imperative of a big brother?  I do not believe that the government should mind its own citizens to ensure that they aren't up to no good.  I do believe that the government should spy on those who  areup to no good.  The latter means that they will need appropriate tools to accomplish that task, but the existence of those tools does not imply that they are being used to violate the former stipulation.

When people on the internet piss their pants because a capability exists, it sounds to me like people are too technologically naive to understand the difference between possession and intent.  Just because cops are carrying guns doesn't mean they're trying to shoot you.
 
2013-12-31 06:55:14 AM  

AngryDragon: ZipSplat: ...so?  I don't understand why this is a surprising or bad thing.  Snowdenites keep implying that because the NSA has figured out how to do something cool that will enable them to spy, they're inexplicably using it to spy on Joe Schmoe directly.

Collecting metadata en-masse to index and search?  A legitimate concern of systematic issues that accompany data collection from shared networks where threats communicate in the same pool as the rest of us.

The NSA having the technical ability - like other spy agencies in the world no doubt - to break into someone's phone, get root, and access the entire file system?  Well no shiat.  I would hope they could do that at a minimum.  Is there evidence that they're using this against the wrong people?  Otherwise, what is the point of detailing this?

People like you really, genuinely scare me.  Is it willful ignorance, denial, or simply a belief in the moral imperative of big brother?  Honestly.


Spying on your citizens is horrible. No ones saying it isn't. What people are saying is that of course they are, and they basically always have. If the government had 5 employees and $10 it would probably go toward spying on someone. They spied on Americans during the Cold War and WWII from what I understand and there's absolutely no reason to think they didn't spy on us at all points before it too.

You're an idiot if you think a government with the means isn't going to spy on whoever it wants, and you're deluded if you think there's a way to really prevent it. Or you've been silenced by the government, in which case, I'm very sorry.
 
2013-12-31 07:01:10 AM  
Not as scary? I think that makes it SCARIER!
 
2013-12-31 08:02:46 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: What people are saying is that of course they are, and they basically always have.


Are you farking retarded? The NSA is spying on everyone now, and they are doing it all the time. This is unprecidented. Our government is the only one in the world doing this.

"Of course they are"? Who the fark is saying that? You? Because I am certainly not saying that, and the customers who buy US IT products are not saying it either.
 
2013-12-31 08:17:23 AM  

cman: RexTalionis: [hitechtabai.files.wordpress.com image 401x459]

The article was talking about software solutions. You are using a solution based upon triangulation, which certainly is not a software solution


How do you think the software works? By tracking kitten tickles?
 
2013-12-31 08:20:17 AM  

Asa Phelps: By law, as of 2005, at least 95% of subscribed phones with all US wireless carriers must be able to report their own position, give or take 300 meters.

you know, for "safety".


I'm in the area where the crime that kick started that campaign happened.  A college girl (yes, of course she was white) was kidnapped at her car in the mall.  They eventually found her body, and did get the guy who did it.  HOWEVER, they figured out if they could have tracked her cell phone (circa 2003) then they would have been able to save her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Dru_Sjodin
 
2013-12-31 08:31:11 AM  

weddingsinger: Asa Phelps: By law, as of 2005, at least 95% of subscribed phones with all US wireless carriers must be able to report their own position, give or take 300 meters.

you know, for "safety".

I'm in the area where the crime that kick started that campaign happened.  A college girl (yes, of course she was white) was kidnapped at her car in the mall.  They eventually found her body, and did get the guy who did it.  HOWEVER, they figured out if they could have tracked her cell phone (circa 2003) then they would have been able to save her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Dru_Sjodin


Gosh, how will those criminal masterminds avoid being tracked now when they want to kidnap and murder a  white girl? Hm. I don't know. It probably requires some high tech solution. Something only an evil genius would concoct. Perhaps making sure the victim doesn't have a cellphone.

Wow, so easily defeated. I guess that save the white girls campaign was a crock of shiat!

Which is exactly the reason we shouldn't write laws as a knee-jerk reaction or decimate our freedoms and throw them into the wind.
 
2013-12-31 08:50:08 AM  
Oh, god! What if the government finds out that I am at work right now? What will they do to me? What if I go to Publix and they track me to the aisle where the expensive sparkling water is? Will they think I make a lot of money and tax me more? Scary stuff, this is.
 
2013-12-31 09:07:47 AM  

cman: RexTalionis: [hitechtabai.files.wordpress.com image 401x459]

The article was talking about software solutions. You are using a solution based upon triangulation, which certainly is not a software solution


Dude, software solutions and hardware solutions are not mutually exclusive. Software will always depend on some hardware in order to work.
 
2013-12-31 09:15:06 AM  
Oh no. The government can find me when I call 911 from my cell phone, while dying in a ditch.

/the horror.
 
2013-12-31 10:08:27 AM  

ZipSplat:   Just because cops are carrying guns doesn't mean they're trying to shoot you.


Bears repeating (but the "ZOMG! the NSA is tracking everybody 24/7 and watching us poop!" Crowd will miss the point.)
 
2013-12-31 10:09:29 AM  

HotWingAgenda: Wow, fanboy, it's sure a relief that Apple stopped making iphones after that one year, and had all existing models destroyed, and never again made another version of their iphone's operating system using Apple's swiss cheese security protocols.


Wow. All the subby said is that the iPhone at that time did not have GPS or a camera. I did not get any iPhone worship from that headline.
Sounds like you have a few issues. You might want to think about professional help.


/HTC One. Since you probably think I'm an Apple 'fanboy'.
 
2013-12-31 10:38:15 AM  
If you access the camera in my iPhone right now, you will get to see what the inside of my pocket looks like!
 
2013-12-31 11:09:52 AM  

mccallcl: doloresonthedottedline: What people are saying is that of course they are, and they basically always have.

Are you farking retarded? The NSA is spying on everyone now, and they are doing it all the time. This is unprecidented. Our government is the only one in the world doing this.

"Of course they are"? Who the fark is saying that? You? Because I am certainly not saying that, and the customers who buy US IT products are not saying it either.


They were reading telegrams from Western Union until 1929 and have been monitoring something at some point since probably always. Read the history of the NSA. This isn't exactly a new agency, just a new name. Same purpose and similar name has been around since World War 1.
 
2013-12-31 11:11:49 AM  
Not that YOU know of, Subby!
 
2013-12-31 10:11:34 PM  
The original iPhone had cell tower triangulation and a camera.   Apple did not put a video app on the original phone, but there was one available on rooted phones.
 
2013-12-31 10:16:52 PM  

HotWingAgenda: Wow, fanboy, it's sure a relief that Apple stopped making iphones after that one year, and had all existing models destroyed, and never again made another version of their iphone's operating system using Apple's swiss cheese security protocols.


I stopped reading at "fanboy" because nobody who uses that term ever has anything useful or intelligent to say.
 
2014-01-01 07:31:39 AM  

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: ZipSplat:   Just because cops are carrying guns doesn't mean they're trying to shoot you.

Bears repeating (but the "ZOMG! the NSA is tracking everybody 24/7 and watching us poop!" Crowd will miss the point.)


The cops here do not carry guns and are still able to perform their duty. Your point? Ah, you use bricks to swat houseflies!

My point is that the authorities have access to excessive tools way above what they need to perform their duty. This is not good as it leads to abuse of said tools because human nature but that point will probably go over your head.

First they came for, well everybody all at once really, and I said nothing because... um... actually that`s not good.
 
2014-01-01 07:34:38 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: mccallcl: doloresonthedottedline: What people are saying is that of course they are, and they basically always have.

Are you farking retarded? The NSA is spying on everyone now, and they are doing it all the time. This is unprecidented. Our government is the only one in the world doing this.

"Of course they are"? Who the fark is saying that? You? Because I am certainly not saying that, and the customers who buy US IT products are not saying it either.

They were reading telegrams from Western Union until 1929 and have been monitoring something at some point since probably always. Read the history of the NSA. This isn't exactly a new agency, just a new name. Same purpose and similar name has been around since World War 1.


Anyone who thinks this is new has never heard of echelon and that was only since the 60`s. Do you think they may have upgraded their facility in the last 50 years?
 
2014-01-01 10:47:07 AM  
Hate to interrupt a good yawn but this is most certainly unprecedented because it was technically impossible until the computing power was made available by progress. Go ahead, transcribe a telegram in the amount of time it takes to read and re type it. Take that transcription and put it into a file cabinet. You're at about 1/1000000th of the utility value at the expense of millions of times of resources.

For the NSA to collect and organize this much information by hand back then would have cost about half the entire budget of the US. The number one job in America would be "telegraph transcriptionist", there'd be tens of millions of them. File cabinets full of yellowing telegrams would occupy a third of government offices.

If you're not worried that an organization with such a relatively tiny budget can flex this much power in secret, you're an idiot and should STFU
 
2014-01-01 03:32:59 PM  

dready zim: The cops here do not carry guns and are still able to perform their duty. Your point? Ah, you use bricks to swat houseflies!


Your police do have guns.  Your average beat cop might not carry one, but if a situation arose where the police force would need to respond with arms, they have access to them.

Similarly, the NSA probably gives fark-all about your particular iPhone.  But they have the ability if the situation arises to gain access to the iPhone of someone who is so important, and they should.

... but that point will probably go over your head.
 
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