If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Mother Jones)   U.S. intelligence agencies report that the Taliban will likely retake control of Afghanistan within a year of the U.S. troops withdrawal. Good to know that 13 year war wasn't in vain   (motherjones.com) divider line 135
    More: Fail, Taliban, Afghanistan, U.S., U.S. intelligence agencies, withdrawals, National Intelligence Estimate, intelligence  
•       •       •

739 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Dec 2013 at 2:52 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



135 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-12-30 01:10:28 PM  
All we need is 13 more years! That's the ticket!
 
2013-12-30 01:11:36 PM  
Maybe we should have just nuked it from orbit after all.
 
2013-12-30 01:17:26 PM  

DamnYankees: All we need is 13 more years! That's the ticket!


We wouldn't be in this mess if we didn't provide those damn arms to the Mujahideen.

We broke it, shouldn't it be up to us to fix it? Just saying...

/And no, please, I don't want to play blame game.
 
2013-12-30 01:33:35 PM  
Really, I am largely ignorant of the political/religious situation in Afghanistan, so there may be an obvious reason this question is stupid:

If more of the people of Afghanistan DO NOT want the Taliban to be in charge than DO want the Taliban to be in charge, can't they stop them? We took the Taliban out of power 13 years ago and have been giving Afghani's the opportunity to set up a government ever since.

I'm not saying "it's the will of the people", just that we've done just about all we reasonably can and it's their turn. It's their country, after all.
 
2013-12-30 01:47:54 PM  
I recently watched the Vice documentary This Is What Winning Looks Like

The ANA is hopeless.
 
2013-12-30 02:04:02 PM  
Well this doesn't make me want to rip a phone book in half.  Nope.  Not at all...
 
2013-12-30 02:08:33 PM  

MrBallou: Really, I am largely ignorant of the political/religious situation in Afghanistan, so there may be an obvious reason this question is stupid:

If more of the people of Afghanistan DO NOT want the Taliban to be in charge than DO want the Taliban to be in charge, can't they stop them? We took the Taliban out of power 13 years ago and have been giving Afghani's the opportunity to set up a government ever since.

I'm not saying "it's the will of the people", just that we've done just about all we reasonably can and it's their turn. It's their country, after all.


That's fair to a point. The problem is that the Taliban tend to garner support through fear of violent reprisal among poorly educated people in isolated areas who can hardly fend for themselves.
 
2013-12-30 02:09:34 PM  

The Briny Derp: Well this doesn't make me want to rip a phone book in half.  Nope.  Not at all...


You better start with the comic book first.
 
2013-12-30 02:10:42 PM  

Nabb1: The problem is that the Taliban tend to garner support through fear of violent reprisal among poorly educated people in isolated areas who can hardly fend for themselves.


No offense, but how do you know this? This doesn't seem like something you'd be in a position to know, and I think Americans really tend to underestimate the degree to which people actually support ideologies we don't like.
 
2013-12-30 02:11:34 PM  

MrBallou: We took the Taliban out of power 13 years ago and have been giving Afghani's the opportunity to set up a government ever since.


"Giving Afghanis the opportunity to set up a government" isn't really accurate. The 2009 presidential election is a pretty good indicator of how much of a clusterfark the electoral process is in Afghanistan, largely because we are determined to interfere with it in order to ensure an outcome favorable to us.

Couple that with the Soviets doing exactly the same thing a generation before, and you begin to see why people distrust Western-installed federal governments operating from Kabul, and look more favorably upon the relatively stable and (relatively) home-grown Taliban movement.
 
2013-12-30 02:14:20 PM  
A bunch of congress' country club buddies made a bunch of money, so it wasn't all bad.
 
2013-12-30 02:17:47 PM  

Cagey B: MrBallou: We took the Taliban out of power 13 years ago and have been giving Afghani's the opportunity to set up a government ever since.

"Giving Afghanis the opportunity to set up a government" isn't really accurate. The 2009 presidential election is a pretty good indicator of how much of a clusterfark the electoral process is in Afghanistan, largely because we are determined to interfere with it in order to ensure an outcome favorable to us.

Couple that with the Soviets doing exactly the same thing a generation before, and you begin to see why people distrust Western-installed federal governments operating from Kabul, and look more favorably upon the relatively stable and (relatively) home-grown Taliban movement.


That sucks. Religious authoritarianism may make for a miserable life, but at least you get to go to heaven at the end, right?

A cautionary tale to remind us to beware of those who would install a theocracy here.
 
2013-12-30 02:23:11 PM  

DamnYankees: Nabb1: The problem is that the Taliban tend to garner support through fear of violent reprisal among poorly educated people in isolated areas who can hardly fend for themselves.

No offense, but how do you know this? This doesn't seem like something you'd be in a position to know, and I think Americans really tend to underestimate the degree to which people actually support ideologies we don't like.


Many there do support it, but others do not, and they tend not to be so understanding of those who do not.
 
2013-12-30 02:27:07 PM  

Nabb1: Many there do support it, but others do not, and they tend not to be so understanding of those who do not.


Again, how do you know this? And can you quantify it? It seems to me that it matters a great deal if that "many" means 20% or 80%.
 
2013-12-30 02:30:45 PM  
Napoleon, the British Empire and the Soviet Union couldn't do it, but I think it's worth another try.
 
IP
2013-12-30 02:31:50 PM  

Nabb1: Maybe we should have just nuked it from orbit after all.


It's the only way to be sure.
 
2013-12-30 02:45:08 PM  
Well, just ask German and Japan how long it takes us to "fully" withdraw.
 
2013-12-30 02:47:03 PM  
"Paging Mr. Flashman. Mr. Harry Flashman".   We'll never learn.
 
2013-12-30 02:48:40 PM  

DamnYankees: Nabb1: Many there do support it, but others do not, and they tend not to be so understanding of those who do not.

Again, how do you know this? And can you quantify it? It seems to me that it matters a great deal if that "many" means 20% or 80%.


No, I can't quantify it. Through work, I've dealt with a some civilian contractors who have worked over there. There is support among the people for the Taliban, but it is not universal, and many that do not support them fear them.
 
2013-12-30 02:50:28 PM  

Nabb1: There is support among the people for the Taliban, but it is not universal, and many that do not support them fear them.


Sounds like a way you could describe political parties in America also.

Obviously they aren't the same thing, but I'm trying to make the general point that I'm extremely wary of trying to describe political constituencies in foreign cultures when we know basically nothing about them, and our descriptions tend to line up very neatly with America's self-perception as a heroic figure on the world stage.
 
2013-12-30 02:51:40 PM  

DamnYankees: Nabb1: There is support among the people for the Taliban, but it is not universal, and many that do not support them fear them.

Sounds like a way you could describe political parties in America also.

Obviously they aren't the same thing, but I'm trying to make the general point that I'm extremely wary of trying to describe political constituencies in foreign cultures when we know basically nothing about them, and our descriptions tend to line up very neatly with America's self-perception as a heroic figure on the world stage.


I don't think it is a mess we want to involve ourselves I unless we have no other choice.
 
2013-12-30 02:53:57 PM  

Nabb1: I don't think it is a mess we want to involve ourselves I unless we have no other choice.


On that we agree entirely.
 
2013-12-30 02:55:12 PM  

cman: We broke it, shouldn't it be up to us to fix it? Just saying...


You're right, let's keep trying to fix it. We'll probably start being very successful at it real soon.
 
2013-12-30 02:57:56 PM  
Fark'em, we gave them the opportunity, if they choose to squander it... fark'em!

Only thing I'd say is if the Taliban get into power again, we send a Rep or something to them, tell them we'll not interfer, but if they fund/harbor/help terrorists to hurt US or its allies, we'll drop a MOAB on top of them each time it happens...
 
2013-12-30 02:58:21 PM  
Who makes drones? I need to call my broker.
 
2013-12-30 02:58:47 PM  
Keeping the Taliban out of power wasn't the point of the wars in the Middle East, anyway. Keeping Republicans in power was. At least, attempting to do so.

/permanent Republican majority.
//what, you actually thought we let our troops kill and be killed for something as nonsense as "pre-emptive security"?
 
2013-12-30 02:59:20 PM  
But we get to leave Afghanistan, so who's the real loser?
 
2013-12-30 03:01:08 PM  
Nobody wins in Afghanistan. Unless you are, wait for it...
 
2013-12-30 03:01:47 PM  

KellyX: Fark'em, we gave them the opportunity, if they choose to squander it... fark'em!

Only thing I'd say is if the Taliban get into power again, we send a Rep or something to them, tell them we'll not interfer, but if they fund/harbor/help terrorists to hurt US or its allies, we'll drop a MOAB on top of them each time it happens...


I'm quoting this back at you on the off chance that you are capable of realizing how stupid this post is.
 
2013-12-30 03:02:14 PM  
I was told there would be Democracy shiatting Unicorns as far as the eye can see by now.
 
2013-12-30 03:03:26 PM  

Loucifer: Who makes drones? I need to call my broker.


The usual players - Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Northrop Grumman, to name a few.
 
2013-12-30 03:05:42 PM  

cman: DamnYankees: All we need is 13 more years! That's the ticket!

We wouldn't be in this mess if we didn't provide those damn arms to the Mujahideen.

We broke it, shouldn't it be up to us to fix it? Just saying...

/And no, please, I don't want to play blame game.


Actually we probably would be.

If we hadn't funded the Mujahdeen (who weren't actually the Taliban, but that's another argument), the Soviets would've eventually withdrawn on their own. After the Soviets left, the vacuum of power left many regional warlords in charge. One of whom happened to abduct young local boys and rape them. Mullah Omar was pissed about this, rounded up some locals, and freed the boys and killed the warlord. After that, they gained in popularity and thus, the Taliban was born. Al Qaeda went there after they were booted out of Sudan (and Al Qaeda would've also formed without US intervention in Afghanistan in the 80s, and also, the US did not arm Al Qaeda in the 80s, which is a popular myth here).

So if the US hadn't gotten involved, it would've likely ended up about the same. Maybe a bit different, but pretty close.
 
2013-12-30 03:06:38 PM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Nobody wins in Afghanistan. Unless you are, wait for it...


Genghis Khan?
 
2013-12-30 03:06:57 PM  
Unless we want to fully occupy Afghanistan and directly control its government as a quasi-colonial holding, there is really no way to avoid this outcome. That's why some of us, while bearing no great love for the Taliban, opposed military operations in Afghanistan in the first place.
 
2013-12-30 03:12:01 PM  

DamnYankees: Nabb1: I don't think it is a mess we want to involve ourselves I unless we have no other choice.

On that we agree entirely.




t0.gstatic.com
 
2013-12-30 03:12:29 PM  
If we stay forever, that Taliban will never take over again. It's so simple!
 
2013-12-30 03:13:59 PM  
There are parts of Afghanistan outside Kabul and our bases they don't control right now?
 
2013-12-30 03:14:01 PM  

Nabb1: MrBallou: Really, I am largely ignorant of the political/religious situation in Afghanistan, so there may be an obvious reason this question is stupid:

If more of the people of Afghanistan DO NOT want the Taliban to be in charge than DO want the Taliban to be in charge, can't they stop them? We took the Taliban out of power 13 years ago and have been giving Afghani's the opportunity to set up a government ever since.

I'm not saying "it's the will of the people", just that we've done just about all we reasonably can and it's their turn. It's their country, after all.

That's fair to a point. The problem is that the Taliban tend to garner support through fear of violent reprisal among poorly educated people in isolated areas who can hardly fend for themselves.


Don't forget that the current 'democratic government' is also so corrupt and unpopular that even the Taliban seems like a more palatable alternative for some.
 
2013-12-30 03:15:50 PM  

machoprogrammer: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Nobody wins in Afghanistan. Unless you are, wait for it...

Genghis Khan?


i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-12-30 03:18:35 PM  
If there was any economic benefit to staying in Afghanistan it might be worth it. There is nothing good or useful in the country, there are better strategic military countries in the area and lacking any real resources other than the discredited mining ideas nothing of any economic benefit to the US. Just pull out, sure billions have been wasted and lives lost but without a reason besides defense contractors need to pay for second homes it is time to cut the US losses. If there is no status of forces agreement signed by Wednesday pull all troops and funding by the end of February and let the Taliban have the 12th century country back. Cut all air travel out of the country to the west completely off.
 
2013-12-30 03:21:28 PM  

Cagey B: KellyX: Fark'em, we gave them the opportunity, if they choose to squander it... fark'em!

Only thing I'd say is if the Taliban get into power again, we send a Rep or something to them, tell them we'll not interfer, but if they fund/harbor/help terrorists to hurt US or its allies, we'll drop a MOAB on top of them each time it happens...

I'm quoting this back at you on the off chance that you are capable of realizing how stupid this post is.


Clearly not, shiat there isn't going to change anytime soon... What else can/should be done? What's the solution then?
 
2013-12-30 03:23:46 PM  
Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Nobody wins in Afghanistan. Unless you are, wait for it...

Legendary?
 
2013-12-30 03:25:51 PM  

KellyX: Cagey B: KellyX: Fark'em, we gave them the opportunity, if they choose to squander it... fark'em!

Only thing I'd say is if the Taliban get into power again, we send a Rep or something to them, tell them we'll not interfer, but if they fund/harbor/help terrorists to hurt US or its allies, we'll drop a MOAB on top of them each time it happens...

I'm quoting this back at you on the off chance that you are capable of realizing how stupid this post is.

Clearly not, shiat there isn't going to change anytime soon... What else can/should be done? What's the solution then?


Leave a bunch of impoverished cave people to their tribal conflicts and install locks on cockpit doors of passenger aircraft.
 
2013-12-30 03:26:10 PM  

Warms my frickin' heart, it does.


We bombed them because they dared to follow their own laws and international laws when we demanded that they hand over Osama bin Laden, without bothering to provide any evidence of his involvement or participate in due process, and somehow expel all terrorist elements. Wikipedia's take seems accurate.

We never intended on working with Afghanistan to capture OBL for trial - this was our pretext for invasion, and we sure as hell were going to ensure that we got our war on. What started as a self-righteous assault for revenge quickly became Dubya's Vietnam - easily the least-popular war in this country's history, and one that became a pointless, decade-plus mire which killed tens of thousands but ultimately accomplished nothing. Heck, we didn't even capture or kill OBL - it took the next president, ordering an assassination in Pakistan twelve years later, to do the job.

We weren't there to kill OBL - we were there for other reasons. We let a chickenhawk administration exploit our anger, fear, and need for vengeance, all for their own agenda - and we're still too afraid to admit it.
 
2013-12-30 03:30:13 PM  

cman: DamnYankees: All we need is 13 more years! That's the ticket!

We wouldn't be in this mess if we didn't provide those damn arms to the Mujahideen.

We broke it, shouldn't it be up to us to fix it? Just saying...

/And no, please, I don't want to play blame game.


We do not have the stomache to fix Afghanistan, because to fix Afghanistan you must execute every single male over the age of 12 and force re-education on every one else for the next 20 years.
 
2013-12-30 03:35:44 PM  
*Gasp* a modern military campaign attempting to uproot a core tribal group based in the way of life of a people failed? SAY IT AIN'T SO!
 
2013-12-30 03:42:43 PM  

Nabb1: Maybe we should have just nuked it from orbit after all.


Came here to say: we should have just depopulated the country after 9/11.
 
2013-12-30 03:45:53 PM  
That was never not gonna happen.
 
2013-12-30 03:46:33 PM  
Like a big ole Hindenburg; Afghanistan will go up in flames worse than So. Vietnam in 1975... no more US money, no more US/ NATO soldiers, no more western helps/ influences... left on its own~~ poof. Gone in 60 secs.
 
2013-12-30 03:46:52 PM  
fark it, make it China's problem now.

Ky question is why the Taliban keep regenerating while Al Qaeda became mostly irrelevant.
 
Displayed 50 of 135 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report