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(NJ.com)   One minute you're lying outside a Nazi crematorium wishing to die and then almost 70 years later you're hugging the American soldier who liberated you, such is life   (nj.com) divider line 63
    More: Hero, Holocaust, Nazis, Americans, Marsha Kreuzman, Holocaust survivors, Krakow, Yom Kippur, American Soldiers  
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10693 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Dec 2013 at 11:55 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-30 02:24:49 PM  
People treat each other like shiat and war sucks - always.

The Second World War only served to document the unimaginable horrors that the industrial age can inflict on humanity. People have been raping, pillaging, and committing atrocities since long before recorded history. The Holocaust (and Nanking, and the Philippines, and all over Russia....) is almost expected when modern industrial power is used against whoever the people in charge don't like. You can make the trains run on time or you can extinguish an entire race of people.

And don't think that you are any better...
 
2013-12-30 02:56:12 PM  
Read the article, twice.  These kinds of things also kind of piss me off, in that we'll read this and we can all rightfully conclude how evil the Nazi's and their supporters were; but in a week, someone will say something like "Republicans=Nazi" and the reality of the horror will become  trivialized over a stupid talking point.

There are times when we should understand when the analogy is correct and honest, but to be fair it is too often flung around and it dilutes the reality of the Holocaust.  Just because someone disagrees with your politics does not make them a Nazi.  Real, literal Nazi's, should they come to power, deserve a bullet in the head.
 
2013-12-30 03:02:39 PM  

madgonad: People treat each other like shiat and war sucks - always.

The Second World War only served to document the unimaginable horrors that the industrial age can inflict on humanity. People have been raping, pillaging, and committing atrocities since long before recorded history. The Holocaust (and Nanking, and the Philippines, and all over Russia....) is almost expected when modern industrial power is used against whoever the people in charge don't like. You can make the trains run on time or you can extinguish an entire race of people.

And don't think that you are any better...


The chief difference from past conflicts, other than the scale, is the ability to document the horror.  It is one thing to read about the Mongols casually executing every inhabitant of a city that resisted, but it is quite another to see a photograph of piles of emaciated to the point of skeleton bodies.
 
2013-12-30 03:10:53 PM  
World War II was supposed to be the war that ended all wars. Stories like this from the survivors of the brutality and stories of those who were killed like Sophia Scholl (22) for having the courage to question really bring home the reality of the times. When will we learn?
 
2013-12-30 03:27:56 PM  

blanchae: World War II was supposed to be the war that ended all wars. Stories like this from the survivors of the brutality and stories of those who were killed like Sophia Scholl (22) for having the courage to question really bring home the reality of the times. When will we learn?


Actually, WWI was the "war to end all wars", see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_war_to_end_war
 
2013-12-30 04:21:19 PM  

madgonad: People treat each other like shiat and war sucks - always.

The Second World War only served to document the unimaginable horrors that the industrial age can inflict on humanity. People have been raping, pillaging, and committing atrocities since long before recorded history.


How do you know this?   Maybe the act of reading and writing led to people getting all rapey and pillagy.
 
2013-12-30 04:27:02 PM  

blanchae: World War II was supposed to be the war that ended all wars


<Chuckle>
 
2013-12-30 04:31:20 PM  
Hey, jokes about the Holocaust are NOT funny. My grandpa DIED at Auschwitz.... he fell out of a guard tower.

And if you laughed you are going strait to hell along with me. Tip your waitress and try the veal.
 
2013-12-30 05:35:52 PM  
I can already imagine the fark headlines for when the last holocaust survivor actually dies.
 
2013-12-30 05:42:05 PM  

Oldiron_79: Hey, jokes about the Holocaust are NOT funny. My grandpa DIED at Auschwitz.... he fell out of a guard tower.

And if you laughed you are going strait to hell along with me. Tip your waitress and try the veal.


The version I heard went: "You know Pat Buchanan's father died during World War II.  He fell out of the guard tower at Auschwitz."
 
2013-12-30 07:01:05 PM  
My grandparents were holocaust survivors.  My last remaining grandmother passed at age 92, Oct 2012.  She had been in Bergen-Belsen.  She and her mother and siblings survived, and she met my grandfather (He'd been in Mathausen) in a DP camp.  (They tried to go home to Hungary, but their neighbors were living in their houses and walking around in their clothes, so they left.)  They didn't talk about their experiences for a long time, but some years ago, my mom manged to interview them and get them to tell her some of it.  I'm quite sure it made them who they were...they were able to move on and make lives for themselves, and enjoy life, but I don't think anyone can live through something like that and not be permanently scarred in some way.

Meanwhile, my other grandfather got out of Europe in 1938, and earned US citizenship by joining the Army.  He went back to Europe and we have photos he left that he took during the war, including a few he took during a camp liberation.  I found out recently he had anger management issues, and would smack my grandma around.  While there is no excuse for that, I choose to believe the persecution his family suffered, and the horrors of war led him to behave that way.

Holocaust deniers are awful people.
 
2013-12-30 09:06:26 PM  

Egoy3k: Shadi: Egoy3k: majority of European colonies throughout the world gained independence without bloodshed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qissa_Khwani_Bazaar_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Rebellion_of_1857
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathurst_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yagan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellions_of_1837
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_Revolt

Which alternate history did you step out of?

You really have no idea how many European colonies existed do you? Also you need to consider the size of these different conflicts in comparison with the American Revolution.


lol lol lol,

Damn You are on a (t)roll tonight.
 
2013-12-30 09:40:19 PM  

Shadi: Egoy3k: majority of European colonies throughout the world gained independence without bloodshed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qissa_Khwani_Bazaar_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Rebellion_of_1857
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathurst_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yagan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellions_of_1837
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer_Revolt

Which alternate history did you step out of?


The original comment seemed quite logical to me. I was going to say something similar, although would have said that a war about taxation was perhaps not the easiest to justify (despite the eventual outcome).
That said, you examples are not examples of wars of independence against colonial oppressors.

Qissa Khwani Bazaar_massacre : non violet resistance, not on par with the American Colonists.

Indian Rebellion of 1857 : a rebellion against a company which LEAD TO COLONIAL RULE, so sort of the opposite.

Bathurst War : more along the lines of the Native Americans' war against the settlers.

Yagan : again, more like the American Indian Wars

Rebellions of 1837 : Don't know Canadian history, but given that they got independence in 1931 I'd suggest that an uprising 100 years earlier wasn't the primary method of achieving it?

Boer Revolt : this revolt was more like the American Civil war, although you may be thinking of the Boer War (rather than the revolt) which was not colonials vs colonial power, but British Colonials vs Dutch Colonials. A more violent version of New Amsterdam becomes New York (with added Gold Mines).

Really, without the American Revolution one would imagine that the US would have got its independence more slowly in the manner of Australia, New Zealand and Canada (although, there is a possibility that without the American revolution none of the other Anglicised nations would have gained nationhood and that we'd all be one big Anglo nation, sending our politicians to a big central Westminster parliament while our 'national' governments were more like state governments?)
 
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