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(Huffington Post)   For profit college accused of artificially inflating job placement numbers by hiring temp companys to churn through graduates and classifying McDonalds cooks as "gainfully employed". Quick, somebody get the fainting couch for the tag   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 34
    More: Obvious, McDonalds, National Consumer Law Center, temporary work, California Attorney General, medical billing, for-profit schools, Houston area, Corinthian Colleges  
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1349 clicks; posted to Business » on 30 Dec 2013 at 10:11 AM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



34 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-12-30 10:31:42 AM  
I'd like to see the GOP go after this wasteful federal spending...
 
2013-12-30 10:41:16 AM  

Chabash: I'd like to see the GOP go after this wasteful federal spending...


Are you kidding? A good number of them are heavily invested in the companies that own these schools.
 
2013-12-30 10:42:30 AM  
Obvious tag is right. I stuck it out for 3 semesters at a diploma mill. They're pretty good at keeping up the appearance of legit programs, but it's all a facade.

CSB time:
It was during that third semester that I took a research and writing class that involved a peer review. Now, keep in mind that this class required a prerequisite english/writing credit, meaning that my classmates had "passed" a prior 100-level writing class, and possibly a remedial class before that. A few weeks into the course, I send out my paper for peer review, and receive three others to review myself. The papers we so bad I emailed my instructor worried that I couldn't properly review papers that weren't "research papers" as much as "rambling thoughts of barely-literate people with just enough brain cells to qualify for student loans." The instructor's reply was basically an acknowledgement of compliance with a system designed to collect sallie mae checks and pass out enough "C or better" grades to keep the loans rolling in. I was told to "do my best" on the reviews and "try not to hurt anyone's feelings", while being assured that as long as I turned in something, I'd pass.

I withdrew that day. Figured it was a good time to cut my losses (about $10k in student loans). My old roommate is still trying to get her BS out of them (just ONE more quarter, and they mean it this time!) to the tune of about $45k in loans to-date.

fark diploma mills, online universities and all that. Nothing but a scam that had the perfect economic climate to grow into a monster.
 
2013-12-30 10:46:40 AM  
Jesus.  9 months, 17K in debt, for a technical certificate.
 
2013-12-30 11:00:01 AM  
While there are some stinkers in the regionally accredited public or private non-profit group, none of them really hold a candle to the for profit diploma mills. You may be not get anywhere with your technical cert from the local community college either, but at least you didn't pay $15k for the thing either.
 
2013-12-30 11:04:43 AM  
Just read the article and saw it was Everest so I'm getting a kick. Seriously I am. My niece sued filled a lawsuit against them some months back and they just settled with her. She had enrolled in their Pharmacy program hoping to later transfer to get a BS. Once she finished the program she found just like the guy in the article people told her that Everest was a joke. She even had one interviewer sit her down and explain to her what she should have learned to be a pharmacy technician and to her surprise Everest didn't teach her half of what she should have known or prepare her for the certification exam.

My little brother use to work for one of the larger for profit school companies, I can't remember the name of it, but it was the one with the Le Cordon Blue cooking schools. He said when he first started there were huge bonuses being thrown around and they always had lavish parties. He was saying at one point they had a cash reserve of over $400 million. Then he said the lawsuits started rolling in and that cash reserve went from over $400 million to about $200 million in under a year. He said the parties stopped and the bonuses stopped. He read the writing on the wall and left a short time later when the cash reserve had gone under a $100 million. He said part of the reason he left is that he didn't want to be painted with the stigma of being involved with them if they were publicly outed. The funniest thing about his time there was that they paid for him to go back to school to get his MBA, but they didn't send him to one of the schools in their system, they sent him to a respected private school.
 
2013-12-30 11:09:44 AM  
While I kind of like the idea of schools getting together with temp agencies, it's obvious it's not to score students some much needed IRL experience but to defraud people into thinking their product is worth far more than it is.
/got my job through Robert Half Technology
 
2013-12-30 11:18:42 AM  

Crotchrocket Slim: While I kind of like the idea of schools getting together with temp agencies, it's obvious it's not to score students some much needed IRL experience but to defraud people into thinking their product is worth far more than it is.
/got my job through Robert Half Technology


That may be a real ground breaking idea that comes out of all of this. Schools partnering with temp agencies to do internship type programs for students. Hell you may even have temp agencies that just specialize in that pop up. If Everest had actually concentrated on using this program to try to help students and really developed it, instead of trying to defraud the government and potential students, it would have more than likely legitimately raised there job placement numbers way above the standard.
 
2013-12-30 11:25:08 AM  

ongbok: She even had one interviewer sit her down and explain to her what she should have learned to be a pharmacy technician and to her surprise Everest didn't teach her half of what she should have known or prepare her for the certification exam.


Still not sure why anyone would enroll in a pharmacy tech. program when retail pharmacies will train you for free and prepare you for the cpht test and even pay for you to take it (as long as you pass).
 
2013-12-30 11:27:47 AM  

AngryDragon: Jesus.  9 months, 17K in debt, for a technical certificate.


That was what I thought.  My master's degree (from a flagship public university, in a STEM field) cost about that much in terms of dollars/month.  What a ripoff.
 
2013-12-30 11:29:59 AM  

OhioUGrad: ongbok: She even had one interviewer sit her down and explain to her what she should have learned to be a pharmacy technician and to her surprise Everest didn't teach her half of what she should have known or prepare her for the certification exam.

Still not sure why anyone would enroll in a pharmacy tech. program when retail pharmacies will train you for free and prepare you for the cpht test and even pay for you to take it (as long as you pass).


Most people don't know that, and some pharmacies require you to have your cert in order to be a pharm tech.
 
2013-12-30 12:29:09 PM  
Wait until you find out state colleges also consider temp jobs a success.
 
2013-12-30 12:45:52 PM  

ongbok: Chabash: I'd like to see the GOP go after this wasteful federal spending...

Are you kidding? A good number of them are heavily invested in the companies that own these schools.


The real waste in spending, is the large increase in student loans that allow these colleges to make obscene profits. Another way Bill Clinton screwed us
 
2013-12-30 01:27:52 PM  

OhioUGrad: ongbok: She even had one interviewer sit her down and explain to her what she should have learned to be a pharmacy technician and to her surprise Everest didn't teach her half of what she should have known or prepare her for the certification exam.

Still not sure why anyone would enroll in a pharmacy tech. program when retail pharmacies will train you for free and prepare you for the cpht test and even pay for you to take it (as long as you pass).


I am sure some people would like some citation on those programs.
 
2013-12-30 01:49:56 PM  
You know, for the last 20 years or so, I've been eating the shiat of people who look down on me for getting an arts degree for its own sake, instead of a technical degree that would, apparently, have made me an invaluable employee and thus provide me with a recession-proof career path. "Oh, you have an English degree? Have fun working at McDonald's!"

Hyuk, hyuk, hyuk.

I was never promised a Golden Road, and I graduated without student loan debt. My career path may not always have been smooth, but my University never lied to my face about my prospects just to collect my tax dollars and leave me hanging.
 
2013-12-30 02:32:54 PM  
It is absolutely a good thing that this country has as many colleges and universities as it has.  The top schools are great for the great students, but college is not an exclusive rich kids' club anymore, so anyone with enough of a work ethic can get a bachelor's or master's degree, so anyone can be free to enter just about any profession.  Poor kids can, if they don't waste their undergrad years partying, become doctors and live the good life.  Aside from letting kids learn what they need to know to enter a profession, good schools also provide kids their first opportunity to learn about whatever they want to know.  It's important that  some people know a thing or two about history and culture and art, even if it's just something to study in elective classes taken as part of a pre-med program.

A degree from a top school is still a pretty good indicator of some basic level of competence.  Getting through a mediocre school doesn't prove anything anymore, but it's at least an opportunity to become competent.  It doesn't prove you're a good engineer, but it does show that you  might be, so someone somewhere is more likely to give you a chance.

For-profit colleges, however, are a waste of everyone's time and money.  If you go to one, you're paying for the privilege of being at the very bottom of whatever organization you join.  Kids aren't learning much, if anything, from them, and the degrees aren't worth the paper on which they are printed.  What's the point?

A degree from Berkeley shows that you're smart enough for Berkeley.  A degree from San Diego State, with good grades and recommendations, shows that you're probably good enough to do most jobs.  A degree from University of Phoenix just shows that you're a sucker.
 
2013-12-30 02:38:54 PM  

Nemo's Brother: ongbok: Chabash: I'd like to see the GOP go after this wasteful federal spending...

Are you kidding? A good number of them are heavily invested in the companies that own these schools.

The real waste in spending, is the large increase in student loans that allow these colleges to make obscene profits. Another way Bill Clinton screwed us


Personally I think just making all schools and educational programs eligible for any government student aid be nonprofit would solve most of these diploma-mill issues.
 
2013-12-30 04:26:58 PM  

AngryDragon: Jesus.  9 months, 17K in debt, for a technical certificate.


That's downright obscene.

I actually left my "professional 4-year degree" career to go back and get an associate degree for an industrial job. I never regretted my decision for a moment, as I've never been happier with my work or been more comfortable financially.

For the love of god, if you're doing something like this, go to a state school. I was easily able to pay for school and books out of pocket. My entire degree program wasn't anywhere close to 17K, and that was for 2 full years.
 
2013-12-30 04:30:46 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: Nemo's Brother: ongbok: Chabash: I'd like to see the GOP go after this wasteful federal spending...

Are you kidding? A good number of them are heavily invested in the companies that own these schools.

The real waste in spending, is the large increase in student loans that allow these colleges to make obscene profits. Another way Bill Clinton screwed us

Personally I think just making all schools and educational programs eligible for any government student aid be nonprofit would solve most of these diploma-mill issues.


I wish I could triple-bold this for emphasis.
 
2013-12-30 05:51:07 PM  

peasandcarrots: You know, for the last 20 years or so, I've been eating the shiat of people who look down on me for getting an arts degree for its own sake, instead of a technical degree that would, apparently, have made me an invaluable employee and thus provide me with a recession-proof career path. "Oh, you have an English degree? Have fun working at McDonald's!"

Hyuk, hyuk, hyuk.

I was never promised a Golden Road, and I graduated without student loan debt. My career path may not always have been smooth, but my University never lied to my face about my prospects just to collect my tax dollars and leave me hanging.


Good on you! I've got an advanced degree in a STEM field, and I even rankle when people make fun of arts degrees for the sake of making themselves feel better. Its dishonest and harmful. Especially when I see the quality of writing and graphic design coming out high quality programs in my own field because those involved think their expensive diplomas grant them success in everything they try. Apparently, and this may be a shock to some, humanity is a pretty rounded whole and having people doing quality work in a number of fields benefits us all. That said, emphasis on 'quality work'. There's plenty of STEM programs that are just diploma mills too, so stop stroking yourself off just because you got a B.S because it may be just that. A good friend majored in English and is currently working as a grant writer for a scientific institute, and is pulling in respectable bucks for them and himself. There's a bigger picture involved here, and needs people with many different skill sets working at many different levels. Were the opposite true, everyone would have become a mathematician years ago or starved.

/Realized I got a little ranty there. Not directed at you peasandcarrots. Carry on.
//The important thing is graduating with minimal debt into a field where you have solid skills and realistic expectations.
 
2013-12-30 06:38:58 PM  

Hyjamon: OhioUGrad: ongbok: She even had one interviewer sit her down and explain to her what she should have learned to be a pharmacy technician and to her surprise Everest didn't teach her half of what she should have known or prepare her for the certification exam.

Still not sure why anyone would enroll in a pharmacy tech. program when retail pharmacies will train you for free and prepare you for the cpht test and even pay for you to take it (as long as you pass).

I am sure some people would like some citation on those programs.


Call CVS, and ask  "are you hiring pharm techs?" They pay shiat. But its on the job training and they pay you to take the test. Than move on to somewhere else that will pay you more like costco. TADA! No school debt and you've been working a full time job for the past 3-6 months...

I interviewed at CVS for it last time I was job hunting, even though I was desperate I turned it down. The pharmacist who interviewed me straight up said it pays shiat, there's no room for improvement and the only people the job really makes sense for are Pharm D students who need their required hours in a pharmacy. Thank you only honest interview I've ever been on!
 
2013-12-30 06:49:38 PM  
When I did academic advising we pretty quickly found out how much of a scam these joints are. None, NONE, of their classes transfer. Nobody, not Phoenix, DeVry, none of them. They do not transfer to regular schools. Some of the students would want to take it up with the Dean but they were always refused. The reason was simple: none of these classes came anywhere near the requirements content wise of any of the school's courses. They were all half-assed on-line courses. I felt really bad for the students but unfortunately they were screwed.

For-profits are a scam, pure and simple.
 
2013-12-30 07:05:54 PM  
I gotta get out of this place
 
2013-12-30 07:55:28 PM  

ongbok: Chabash: I'd like to see the GOP go after this wasteful federal spending...

Are you kidding? A good number of them are heavily invested in the companies that own these schools.


Yep.

Besides if a private company is ripping off students it is a problem of the students, and the govt looking into it is interference with the free market (nevermind the gov providing loans to make this possible).
 
2013-12-30 08:27:34 PM  

Hyjamon: OhioUGrad: ongbok: She even had one interviewer sit her down and explain to her what she should have learned to be a pharmacy technician and to her surprise Everest didn't teach her half of what she should have known or prepare her for the certification exam.

Still not sure why anyone would enroll in a pharmacy tech. program when retail pharmacies will train you for free and prepare you for the cpht test and even pay for you to take it (as long as you pass).

I am sure some people would like some citation on those programs.


Well I worked at CVS during college and that was their policy. The Union we were part of also covered Kroger and I was told they did the same. They could always call and ask what their policy is. But I know those two do. (unless anything has changed in the last few years which I doubt, because if someone comes in certified they have to pay them more)
 
2013-12-30 08:45:56 PM  
I became burdened with my first student loan debt at a private, for-profit school way back in 19 and 86 or something.

/Income sensitive repayment, ftw.
//They won't ever get paid back.
///Ever.
////The American dream is dead.
 
2013-12-30 10:39:22 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: I became burdened with my first student loan debt at a private, for-profit school way back in 19 and 86 or something.

/Income sensitive repayment, ftw.
//They won't ever get paid back.
///Ever.
////The American dream is dead.


Nah.  Here's the 2-step plan for restoring the American Dream.

1) Get a decent career path.  Doesn't need to make much, just "I can in fact reasonably expect to make $45K (or me and my other can combine for $60K) in the midwest before I'm 40"
2) Move to Cleveland.  Honestly, any car-dependent Midwest city without a lot of congestion will work.  I just happen to be in Cleveland at the moment.

Seriously.

You want a 3-story house with a giant yard for $150K?  Move to Cleveland suburbs.
You want a fixer-upper 5 minutes from downtown for $40K.  Move to Cleveland.
You want a high-rise apartment in downtown on the water for $1200/month?  Move to Cleveland.
You want a house on the water for $300K.  Move to Cleveland.
You want to see a retired teacher own 3 homes and 8 cars?  Move to Detroit burbs.
You want to never deal with coastal levels of traffic ever again?   Move to Cleveland's West Side (I-71 is farked for 'I don't know why' reasons).
You want to get a 6 Bed, 4 bath "cottage" with lakefront views of Lake Michigan on a semi-private beach for $1.2 Million?   Move to Toledo.
You want to pay $4000/month for a 1 BR apartment, so that you can spend an hour on hobo-infested mass transit to go 8 miles?  Move to SF.

And at least for software engineers, the Midwest is paying ~70% of West Coast Salaries (and because we like progressive taxes in this country, that's probably 80% of the take-home).  No idea how well that scales for other industries, but I can do a hell of a lot more with $60K in Detroit than $75K in San Jose.

And if you're a waiter making min wage + tips, at least you're not totally farked.  You're poor, but you're not destitute like anyone in NYC making less than $30/hour.

The cities that had no choice but to go all-in on mass transit are crazy farking expensive (because mass transit is slow and serves a limited area and makes it a royal pain in the behind to support big box stores (which at least have the advantage of being cheap), which forces more people into less and less area until the prices go full derp.  This is especially the case if you then add anti-growth policies like 'rent control' and 'zoning that never changes, ever' and 'Seriously, you had to call a VOTE OF THE ENTIRE CITY to add 1 apartment building because your normal approval process is THAT farked?  WhereTF do you think the extra 2 Million people you're expecting to add to the region are going to live?  You've already priced the software engineers out of the city.'  Super-extra bonus if you then add rich Asian immigrants who have way too much money and are used to paying $3 Million for a closet).
 
2013-12-30 11:16:35 PM  
The people who go to for-profit diploma mills have heard of community colleges, haven't they?
 
2013-12-31 10:01:02 AM  

meyerkev: HotIgneous Intruder: I became burdened with my first student loan debt at a private, for-profit school way back in 19 and 86 or something.

/Income sensitive repayment, ftw.
//They won't ever get paid back.
///Ever.
////The American dream is dead.

Nah.  Here's the 2-step plan for restoring the American Dream.

1) Get a decent career path.  Doesn't need to make much, just "I can in fact reasonably expect to make $45K (or me and my other can combine for $60K) in the midwest before I'm 40"
2) Move to Cleveland.  Honestly, any car-dependent Midwest city without a lot of congestion will work.  I just happen to be in Cleveland at the moment.

Seriously.

You want a 3-story house with a giant yard for $150K?  Move to Cleveland suburbs.
You want a fixer-upper 5 minutes from downtown for $40K.  Move to Cleveland.
You want a high-rise apartment in downtown on the water for $1200/month?  Move to Cleveland.
You want a house on the water for $300K.  Move to Cleveland.
You want to see a retired teacher own 3 homes and 8 cars?  Move to Detroit burbs.
You want to never deal with coastal levels of traffic ever again?   Move to Cleveland's West Side (I-71 is farked for 'I don't know why' reasons).
You want to get a 6 Bed, 4 bath "cottage" with lakefront views of Lake Michigan on a semi-private beach for $1.2 Million?   Move to Toledo.
You want to pay $4000/month for a 1 BR apartment, so that you can spend an hour on hobo-infested mass transit to go 8 miles?  Move to SF.

And at least for software engineers, the Midwest is paying ~70% of West Coast Salaries (and because we like progressive taxes in this country, that's probably 80% of the take-home).  No idea how well that scales for other industries, but I can do a hell of a lot more with $60K in Detroit than $75K in San Jose.

And if you're a waiter making min wage + tips, at least you're not totally farked.  You're poor, but you're not destitute like anyone in NYC making less than $30/hour.

The cities that had no choice but to go ...


Your post fails as you're advocating people live in Cleveland. Think about why people aren't already flocking to it.
 
2013-12-31 10:15:12 AM  

Crotchrocket Slim: Your post fails as you're advocating people live in Cleveland. Think about why people aren't already flocking to it.


Well, you don't live IN Cleveland.  You live around Cleveland.  (and s/Cleveland/Detroit works as well).

And you have so much money that you can just take a week off work and travel to NYC/SF/Wherever, and still live much, much better than you would be if you were in [Insert cool, awesome, expensive city with terrible traffic here]

Or you can continue to live in the big NorthEast or West Coast or Chicago cities, and accept that the American Dream is dead.  Now if you like living there (and a lot of people do), and consider spending half your pay to split an apartment 90 minutes (and 10 miles) from work an acceptable tradeoff, that's fine, but you don't get to whine and say "The American Dream is dead."  I just told you how to live the old-fashioned middle-class American Dream.   MOVE OUT OF NEW YORK.

/If you want to get rich, move to NYC and get lucky.
//If you want to get middle-class, move out of NYC and don't get unlucky.
 
2013-12-31 11:48:54 AM  

wildcardjack: Wait until you find out state colleges also consider temp jobs a success.


well, in their defense considering the way we've gutted unions and employee protection in this country every job is a temp job.
 
2013-12-31 12:51:52 PM  

wildcardjack: Wait until you find out state colleges also consider temp jobs a success.


So does the Obama administration when they are touting there "recovery" BS
 
2013-12-31 01:10:41 PM  

meyerkev: I just happen to be in Cleveland at the moment.


Are you featured in this Cleveland tourism video per chance?  Or maybe this one?
 
2013-12-31 06:15:34 PM  

meyerkev: HotIgneous Intruder: I became burdened with my first student loan debt at a private, for-profit school way back in 19 and 86 or something.

/Income sensitive repayment, ftw.
//They won't ever get paid back.
///Ever.
////The American dream is dead.

Nah.  Here's the 2-step plan for restoring the American Dream.

1) Get a decent career path.  Doesn't need to make much, just "I can in fact reasonably expect to make $45K (or me and my other can combine for $60K) in the midwest before I'm 40"
2) Move to Cleveland.  Honestly, any car-dependent Midwest city without a lot of congestion will work.  I just happen to be in Cleveland at the moment.

Seriously.

You want a 3-story house with a giant yard for $150K?  Move to Cleveland suburbs.
You want a fixer-upper 5 minutes from downtown for $40K.  Move to Cleveland.
You want a high-rise apartment in downtown on the water for $1200/month?  Move to Cleveland.
You want a house on the water for $300K.  Move to Cleveland.
You want to see a retired teacher own 3 homes and 8 cars?  Move to Detroit burbs.
You want to never deal with coastal levels of traffic ever again?   Move to Cleveland's West Side (I-71 is farked for 'I don't know why' reasons).
You want to get a 6 Bed, 4 bath "cottage" with lakefront views of Lake Michigan on a semi-private beach for $1.2 Million?   Move to Toledo.
You want to pay $4000/month for a 1 BR apartment, so that you can spend an hour on hobo-infested mass transit to go 8 miles?  Move to SF.

And at least for software engineers, the Midwest is paying ~70% of West Coast Salaries (and because we like progressive taxes in this country, that's probably 80% of the take-home).  No idea how well that scales for other industries, but I can do a hell of a lot more with $60K in Detroit than $75K in San Jose.

And if you're a waiter making min wage + tips, at least you're not totally farked.  You're poor, but you're not destitute like anyone in NYC making less than $30/hour.

The cities that had no choice but to go ...


I think you mean Lake Erie.
 
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