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(Salon)   One man recounts a terrifying year spent willingly living in his parents' basement, where he eventually realizes the only solution is law school   (salon.com) divider line 73
    More: Sad, Nintendo games, basements  
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4849 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Dec 2013 at 9:20 AM (15 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-30 09:22:19 AM
Just what the world needs: more lawyers.
 
2013-12-30 09:24:17 AM

doglover: Just what the world needs: more lawyers.


don't forget guns and money
 
2013-12-30 09:26:03 AM
Millennial whines after discovering life is hard. Film at 11.
 
2013-12-30 09:26:10 AM
The last two years have graduated more law students than ever before and most of them are having a hard time finding a job.
 
2013-12-30 09:27:17 AM

doglover: Just what the world needs: more lawyers.


Yeah, not exactly what I would consider a solution.
 
2013-12-30 09:28:00 AM
1) One year? Pfft. Amateur.

2) Good luck finding a job with a law degree you'll probably only half finish.

3) Did anyone read more than a paragraph of this crap?
 
2013-12-30 09:29:04 AM
Sucks to be this guy. Although there are plenty of jobs to be had in Chicago, it doesn't look like he has the skillset for them.

Trying learning how to program and/or admin computer systems. It might be boring as fark sometimes and it might be a challenge to get someone to hire you for your first job, but it beats working in a burrito truck I assume.
 
2013-12-30 09:31:39 AM
You probably had a hard time finding a writing job because you suck at writing.
 
2013-12-30 09:31:43 AM
I started reading the article, but closed it when a pop-up add covered it up on my phone. The few sentences I did read made me start to really dislike the author.
 
2013-12-30 09:33:49 AM

Voiceofreason01: The last two years have graduated more law students than ever before and most of them are having a hard time finding a job.


That's what I've heard. This article says the same

http://www.businessinsider.com/is-law-school-worth-the-money-2013-12
 
2013-12-30 09:34:52 AM
I can see why he didn't cut it as a writer.  Jesus Christ.
 
2013-12-30 09:34:57 AM
Law school is what everyone wants to do because it's a field with good pay (if you can find work) that doesn't involve all that difficult math and stuff. But once they've taken all your money and handed you your diploma, you realize that everyone else in the country had the same idea, and you end up stuck with shiat pay and long hours with no benefits.

Here's an idea: go back to undergraduate school and get an engineering degree, or IT, or computer science, something that people need and will pay good money for because all the chucklefarks of the world listened to their parents and decided to go to college to become a flower or some shiat. Yeah, you're probably not ready for it, and you can't call yourself Esquire, but you might actually be able to get a job that pays more than peanuts before you're 50.
 
2013-12-30 09:35:38 AM
It took little reflection to determine that my time in New York had been remarkably unfruitful, since embarrassment isn't a fruit.

Kill yourself.
 
2013-12-30 09:36:03 AM
After graduating law school in 2011, my wife and I have been unable to find full-time legal employment. In fact, just today she was given a job offer at the same office I started working at 6 months ago.  That's 2 years for me and 2.5 years for her to find an actual lawyer job.  And we graduated in the top 25% of a tier 1 law school.  So... good luck!  Enjoy the crippling debt and 2300 billable hours per year!
 
2013-12-30 09:38:34 AM
Wow.  I can see why he didn't get any writing jobs.
The tag did not lie.  That was "Sad".


I wish him luck paying off his law school debts when he's still unemployed in 4 years.
 
2013-12-30 09:39:55 AM

Crudbucket: It took little reflection to determine that my time in New York had been remarkably unfruitful, since embarrassment isn't a fruit.

Kill yourself.


Har har, the juxtaposition of the metaphoric use of unfruitful with an explicit literal use of the same, even though it would've been equally valid to say it had been remarkably unmoneyful because syphilis ain't money.
 
2013-12-30 09:43:25 AM
I moved back in with my parents while I was in grad school, but couldn't wait to leave again.  They were glad to see me move back out, too!  Never understood or had much sympathy for basement dwellers.

/and they'd better stay the hell off my lawn
 
2013-12-30 09:44:38 AM

The Madd Mann: Law school is what everyone wants to do because it's a field with good pay (if you can find work) that doesn't involve all that difficult math and stuff. But once they've taken all your money and handed you your diploma, you realize that everyone else in the country had the same idea, and you end up stuck with shiat pay and long hours with no benefits.

Here's an idea: go back to undergraduate school and get an engineering degree, or IT, or computer science, something that people need and will pay good money for because all the chucklefarks of the world listened to their parents and decided to go to college to become a flower or some shiat. Yeah, you're probably not ready for it, and you can't call yourself Esquire, but you might actually be able to get a job that pays more than peanuts before you're 50.


better idea- start grad school at a local state university. Get an "internship" (A PAID ONE), and DO WELL at it. Show up every day in a suit. then start applying to jobs. Real jobs.
You don't have to get a science or IT degree to succeed, but do you do have to prove that you're not an idiot who thinks they can write, or thinks that law school is an answer.

/So you're asking, how do you get a paid internship? Try your college career office. If they can't help, make a list of businesses/offices you want to work, and start calling. be polite. follow up.
 
2013-12-30 09:45:05 AM

The Madd Mann: Here's an idea: go back to undergraduate school and get an engineering degree...


Sorry, some people aren't good enough at math that is required to get an engineering degree and have to pursue other options. Fark is the only place I know where it is assumed that everyone is capable of just showing up and getting a STEM degree. The second my adviser told me I didn't need to take another math class, I was done. It was only a matter of time before I ran into math classes that I couldn't handle if I wanted an engineering degree. I realized that as I struggled through statistics. I'm just not cut out for stuff with numbers.

What I did do was get a humanities degree, join the Army and go to law school for free on the GI Bill. You don't even have to join the Army to get the GI Bill. We have a whole branch of the military for people who want the benefits without the hardship, it's call the Air Force (I kid the zoomies, thanks for flying me other to Iraq and nearly making me vomit with the combat landing into BIAP.)Three years manning a radio tower in the Air Force gets you the same GI Bill as everyone else.

/2013 unranked law school graduate with no debt and a government job as a lawyer
 
2013-12-30 09:48:52 AM
That reads as though written with a prose style polished by several years worth of text messaging
 
2013-12-30 09:51:53 AM

RumsfeldsReplacement: I can see why he didn't cut it as a writer.  Jesus Christ.


Which is hilarious because most lawyers write and do research most of the day (or something more tedious.)
 
2013-12-30 09:52:39 AM

Ivandrago: The Madd Mann: Here's an idea: go back to undergraduate school and get an engineering degree...

Sorry, some people aren't good enough at math that is required to get an engineering degree and have to pursue other options. Fark is the only place I know where it is assumed that everyone is capable of just showing up and getting a STEM degree. The second my adviser told me I didn't need to take another math class, I was done. It was only a matter of time before I ran into math classes that I couldn't handle if I wanted an engineering degree. I realized that as I struggled through statistics. I'm just not cut out for stuff with numbers.

What I did do was get a humanities degree, join the Army and go to law school for free on the GI Bill. You don't even have to join the Army to get the GI Bill. We have a whole branch of the military for people who want the benefits without the hardship, it's call the Air Force (I kid the zoomies, thanks for flying me other to Iraq and nearly making me vomit with the combat landing into BIAP.)Three years manning a radio tower in the Air Force gets you the same GI Bill as everyone else.

/2013 unranked law school graduate with no debt and a government job as a lawyer


Join the Army (or one of the lesser branches of the military) in a technical MOS. Get paid to be taught a skill, get excellent on-the-job training and references, get paid to go to college to get a degree or do whatever you like (I spent 2 years as an Equine Sciences major before dropping out). If you've got a nice security clearance you can probably get hired as a govt contractor doing the exact same thing (or less) that you did in the military for 4-5 times as much pay.

/worked for me, anyway
 
2013-12-30 09:57:08 AM
You can be average at math and still be an IT guy or computer programmer. I would choose that over lawyer any day.
 
2013-12-30 09:57:19 AM
This article is just like the countless others on this subject:  a precious Millennial floats through college earning his cupcake degree thus expecting his services to be in demand when he graduates.  Sorry, 23-year-old creative writer, no one wants to pay for your insightful wisdom or witty stories.  The internet, with all its free content, has pretty much made making a career out of writing nearly impossible save for the best and most talented.  Of course, every college student majoring in the "social" sciences thinks he's the best and is just shocked when he graduates with massive debt and no job prospects.

If in 2014 college freshman are still picking worthless degrees to pursue they have no one but themselves to blame when they can't find work.  At least the author of this particular article is pretty upbeat about it while so many others are bitter and feel entitled to what they don't deserve and can't have.
 
2013-12-30 10:00:08 AM

Crudbucket: Join the Army (or one of the lesser branches of the military) in a technical MOS. Get paid to be taught a skill, get excellent on-the-job training and references, get paid to go to college to get a degree or do whatever you like (I spent 2 years as an Equine Sciences major before dropping out). If you've got a nice security clearance you can probably get hired as a govt contractor doing the exact same thing (or less) that you did in the military for 4-5 times as much pay.

/worked for me, anyway


Exactly. People just don't see the military as an option even though the Air Force and the Navy aren't that bad. Just because I wanted to shoot a machine gun, doesn't mean everyone has to. There are hundreds of jobs spread across the services where you're never in danger and the hardest thing you have to do is exercise in the mornings. You only have to do it for 3 years, and then you're free with all those fancy benefits. Instead people don't consider it and rack up debt and complain about their debt. The GI Bill will literally pay you to go to school. I got $1200 a month, on top of my tuition and book stipend, for living expenses. Maybe you'll need a part time job to close the gaps.
 
2013-12-30 10:04:04 AM

Crewmannumber6: doglover: Just what the world needs: more lawyers.

Yeah, not exactly what I would consider a solution.


Warren Zevon song reference, not the usual gun troll
 
2013-12-30 10:08:29 AM
"A day later, when I was truly broke, it seemed like a perfectly spendable dollar that some idiot glued to a rock."

C'mon, that's pretty funny.  Be glad you've never been that broke.
 
2013-12-30 10:09:28 AM

Animatronik: That reads as though written with a prose style polished by several years worth of text messaging


Yes, it's really quite ironic that someone from the generation that eschewed reading and set fire to the language is complaining that it's hard to be successful at writing.
 
2013-12-30 10:15:52 AM

freeforever: This article is just like the countless others on this subject:  a precious Millennial floats through college earning his cupcake degree thus expecting his services to be in demand when he graduates.  Sorry, 23-year-old creative writer, no one wants to pay for your insightful wisdom or witty stories.  The internet, with all its free content, has pretty much made making a career out of writing nearly impossible save for the best and most talented.  Of course, every college student majoring in the "social" sciences thinks he's the best and is just shocked when he graduates with massive debt and no job prospects.

If in 2014 college freshman are still picking worthless degrees to pursue they have no one but themselves to blame when they can't find work.  At least the author of this particular article is pretty upbeat about it while so many others are bitter and feel entitled to what they don't deserve and can't have.


I found this guy's LinkedIn profile.  His BA is in Latin and linguistics.  Not something that makes one instantly employable, but hardly an easy course of study.

One doesn't get a BA in Latin assuming they are going to find a job with it when they get out of college, no wonder he figured he'd be a writer.  If he's Catholic, going to a seminary is an option, there is a huge shortage of priests, but of course that has certain downsides as well.

If he has the temperament, maybe he should consider teaching.
 
2013-12-30 10:19:31 AM
I only made it halfway through that article before I realized this was just a self-indulgent whinefest and closed the tab.  Well...I realized before but couldn't stick it out much longer.  Could someone that actually made it through please let me know what the point was?  Thanks.
 
2013-12-30 10:20:09 AM
I found it pretty clever throughout ... then again I'm partial to this style of writing.
 
2013-12-30 10:22:05 AM

Epicedion: Animatronik: That reads as though written with a prose style polished by several years worth of text messaging

Yes, it's really quite ironic that someone from the generation that eschewed reading and set fire to the language is complaining that it's hard to be successful at writing.


Give him credit for trying. He's got enough ability to actually become a writer if he plugs away at it. But less napping and toking and more typing would be required.

I am older and therefore am fairly intolerant of sloppy writing. I was a STEM major but very old school when it comes to literature and grammar.

/my lawn ...
 
2013-12-30 10:23:30 AM

Jikankun: I only made it halfway through that article before I realized this was just a self-indulgent whinefest and closed the tab.  Well...I realized before but couldn't stick it out much longer.  Could someone that actually made it through please let me know what the point was?  Thanks.


Short version: millennial gets useless degree, moves to NYC, fails hard, goes home, does shiatty on LSAT, wants to go to law school to be shiatty lawyer. OH CRUEL FATE
 
2013-12-30 10:24:59 AM

Roadogs: "A day later, when I was truly broke, it seemed like a perfectly spendable dollar that some idiot glued to a rock."

C'mon, that's pretty funny.  Be glad you've never been that broke.


I have been.  My highlight was digging through my couch cushions for change so I could buy yet another pack of Ramen.
 
2013-12-30 10:27:34 AM

Animatronik: Give him credit for trying. He's got enough ability to actually become a writer if he plugs away at it. But less napping and toking and more typing would be required.

I am older and therefore am fairly intolerant of sloppy writing. I was a STEM major but very old school when it comes to literature and grammar.

/my lawn ...


Well he's certainly good at producing a high word count. Unfortunately many of the words are these:

"Still, I realized I was probably getting too old to go around punching things, especially when that thing is a friend who just paid my bar tab. I haven't thrown a punch since then, except the other day at my neighbor's pumpkin just to feel alive. The results are in: I'm alive, and pumpkins hurt. "
 
2013-12-30 10:29:00 AM
It's funny because when I graduated in 2005 with a CS degree, companies wouldn't hire me because I had no experience. Now, one of those same companies contacted me wanting to interview me, and I was like "Nope, I am staying with the company I got experience with."

I know, cool story bro
 
2013-12-30 10:29:30 AM

grinding_journalist: Millennial whines after discovering life is hard. Film at 11.


And we're done here.
 
2013-12-30 10:30:17 AM
I NEVER would have went to law school straight out of undergraduate.  Period.  If I didn't already have almost two decades of solid, uniterrupted professional experience and REALISTIC prospects for a law degree to translate into well paid positions, I would NEVER have attempted it.   I had hit a "career wall" and made the decision that a professional license would be more beneficial than another degree or credential (as long as you maintain the license and can think clearly/move a mouse or a pen, you'll always have work and an income).  Although I am comfortable with accounting, law school was a lot more realistic, academically, than a CPA or CFP, and also wouldn't require taking or re-take a slew of pre-requisites.  That being said, law school itself is an Alice and Wonderland experience; an ever-narrowing series of doorways guarded by feckless and capricious faculty and administrative staff, as well as the ABA and the State Bar.  And the cost is horrendous-even if you can land a "full" scholarship as to tuition, it isn't unusual for a single textbook to cost several hundred dollars.  I essentially had to treat the loans like buying a beach condo at a bad interest rate, one that I'll never be able to stay at, and will never be able to sell.  I know that I'll pay them off, but it will take years.  The law is no longer a "ladder" to the middle or upper-middle class; you either have to be there, already, or you have to have someone to pay your way.
 
2013-12-30 10:32:23 AM

Voiceofreason01: The last two years have graduated more law students than ever before and most of them are having a hard time finding a job.


Shanghai_Flyer: That's what I've heard. This article says the same

http://www.businessinsider.com/is-law-school-worth-the-money-2013-12


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE
 
2013-12-30 10:37:47 AM

Animatronik: Epicedion: Animatronik: That reads as though written with a prose style polished by several years worth of text messaging

Yes, it's really quite ironic that someone from the generation that eschewed reading and set fire to the language is complaining that it's hard to be successful at writing.

Give him credit for trying. He's got enough ability to actually become a writer if he plugs away at it. But less napping and toking and more typing would be required.

I am older and therefore am fairly intolerant of sloppy writing. I was a STEM major but very old school when it comes to literature and grammar.

/my lawn ...


Based on the structure of that last sentence, not sure if serious or trying to be funny. :P

/why'd you stop being old school?
//one past-tense verb to rule them all!
///just joshin' with ya
 
2013-12-30 10:39:44 AM
He is very young and has indulgent parents. I think he shouldn't have quit the food truck job, at least not without something else lined up.

I think this happens to a lot of people; a degree, any degree, could get you in the door in the past but is now not enough. Also, kids used to be told to learn a trade but now everyone is supposed to have a degree and then people say "but you should have got X degree instead". If petroleum engineering is so great why don't most of the people pushing it do it?

Having been there (though my parents had me working much more quickly), I can't fault him too much. He needs to get a job and move out, but he will probably be poor. Then again, if he's getting published in Salon now he might just make it as a writer in a few years or so.
 
2013-12-30 10:40:17 AM

Crudbucket: Ivandrago: The Madd Mann: Here's an idea: go back to undergraduate school and get an engineering degree...

Sorry, some people aren't good enough at math that is required to get an engineering degree and have to pursue other options. Fark is the only place I know where it is assumed that everyone is capable of just showing up and getting a STEM degree. The second my adviser told me I didn't need to take another math class, I was done. It was only a matter of time before I ran into math classes that I couldn't handle if I wanted an engineering degree. I realized that as I struggled through statistics. I'm just not cut out for stuff with numbers.

What I did do was get a humanities degree, join the Army and go to law school for free on the GI Bill. You don't even have to join the Army to get the GI Bill. We have a whole branch of the military for people who want the benefits without the hardship, it's call the Air Force (I kid the zoomies, thanks for flying me other to Iraq and nearly making me vomit with the combat landing into BIAP.)Three years manning a radio tower in the Air Force gets you the same GI Bill as everyone else.

/2013 unranked law school graduate with no debt and a government job as a lawyer

Join the Army (or one of the lesser branches of the military) in a technical MOS. Get paid to be taught a skill, get excellent on-the-job training and references, get paid to go to college to get a degree or do whatever you like (I spent 2 years as an Equine Sciences major before dropping out). If you've got a nice security clearance you can probably get hired as a govt contractor doing the exact same thing (or less) that you did in the military for 4-5 times as much pay.

/worked for me, anyway


Holy crap, this.

I was doing a philosophy PhD, but I wised up to the fact that no one is hiring.  Who cares how effective you are as an instructor or how good your dissertation is or publications or conference presentations--not from an Ivy League? No job for you, plebe.

Joined the Army Reserves, did a super-long technical MOS, and after AIT got a super sweet DoD contractor job that pays about 5 times what I was making as a philosophy instructor teaching 10 classes a year.  My job is boring as fark, but there are more opportunities available through the military than I ever got through academia.

/Fine, a BA, MA, and PhD in philosophy are difficult to monetize, I get it.
 
2013-12-30 11:10:28 AM
It was mentioned at holiday family gathering that one of my cousins is graduating undergrad and is thinking about law school because "she doesn't know what else to do."  Hilarious. Meanwhile her older sister graduated with an English degree a few years ago.  She taught English in a third world country for a while and is now back, and still unemployed.  And then you look at the oldest cousins, one of them being me.  We both got employable, well-paying degrees (me in accounting, my other cousin is a PA) and don't have to worry about this shiat.  We can just look at our other cousins and laugh.  At least they can live on daddy's trust fund since their mother married well.
 
2013-12-30 11:28:56 AM
"Idiot America" at its finest, brought to you by Salon, America's derpiest editorial site.
 
2013-12-30 11:28:58 AM
Let's brag a moment.

My daughter got a full academic scholarship, graduated from Boston University with a social sciences major, cum laude, moved to NYC, within 6 days got a bottom rung temp job at $18 an hour (70 hours a week, overtime over 40) at an international law firm, worked that for 5 months, then moved to a full time paralegal trainee position at a non profit, that pays $47K salary.

She hopes plans to get a corporation to pay for her law school, work for them for the minimum number of years necessary, then become a "do gooding attorney" in family law or charitable work working minimal hours so she can have a family life as well.  She's bright of course, but her work ethic is insane and puts the average human's to shame.  I have zero doubt she'll end up meeting her goals.

So, to the author of this whiny article... work harder.  Don't be afraid to start at the bottom.
 
2013-12-30 11:32:02 AM
Just what the country needs, more unemployed lawyers.


I had moved up there straight out of college to pursue a career in writing


I am guessing, just guessing, but I bet he was part of the OWS crowd.
 
2013-12-30 11:33:11 AM

Ker_Thwap: Let's brag a moment.

My daughter got a full academic scholarship, graduated from Boston University with a social sciences major, cum laude, moved to NYC, within 6 days got a bottom rung temp job at $18 an hour (70 hours a week, overtime over 40) at an international law firm, worked that for 5 months, then moved to a full time paralegal trainee position at a non profit, that pays $47K salary.

She hopes plans to get a corporation to pay for her law school, work for them for the minimum number of years necessary, then become a "do gooding attorney" in family law or charitable work working minimal hours so she can have a family life as well.  She's bright of course, but her work ethic is insane and puts the average human's to shame.  I have zero doubt she'll end up meeting her goals.

So, to the author of this whiny article... work harder.  Don't be afraid to start at the bottom.


Not to degrade your daughter's work ethic or chances of landing that gig, but she had better pull in someone who's making more change than essentially a part-time lawyer if she wants to stay in NYC. If you want a flexible job schedule, the pay and promotion opportunities are going to suffer. If they aren't please tell me what organization this is so I can apply.
 
2013-12-30 11:40:29 AM

The Madd Mann: Here's an idea: go back to undergraduate school and get an engineering degree, or IT, or computer science


Yeah, because it's not like you'll be competing against everyone else who had the same idea and half the legal immigrants.

It doesn't matter what you do, you just have to be good at it. Hell, you can be a dog walker, but if you're the best damn dog walker in your area you'll always have plenty of work. Maybe you'll need to work for free to get your first clients and/or a portfolio, but the process is still faster (and cheaper) than law school.
 
2013-12-30 11:45:01 AM
redmid17:
Not to degrade your daughter's work ethic or chances of landing that gig, but she had better pull in someone who's making more change than essentially a part-time lawyer if she wants to stay in NYC. If you want a flexible job schedule, the pay and promotion opportunities are going to suffer. If they aren't please tell me what organization this is so I can apply.

Agreed.  I fully doubt any one law firm is going to meet all of her requirements at once.  She's still very much at the start of the process.  I also have no idea if she intends to stay in the city long term, or move back here (my hope) and start a private practice.  No doubt other things will be more important to her than a career eventually and her goals will change.

I just get dismayed when I read/hear about young (and old) people giving up and complaining without ever really trying.
 
2013-12-30 11:47:33 AM

Ivandrago: Crudbucket: Join the Army (or one of the lesser branches of the military) in a technical MOS. Get paid to be taught a skill, get excellent on-the-job training and references, get paid to go to college to get a degree or do whatever you like (I spent 2 years as an Equine Sciences major before dropping out). If you've got a nice security clearance you can probably get hired as a govt contractor doing the exact same thing (or less) that you did in the military for 4-5 times as much pay.

/worked for me, anyway

Exactly. People just don't see the military as an option even though the Air Force and the Navy aren't that bad. Just because I wanted to shoot a machine gun, doesn't mean everyone has to. There are hundreds of jobs spread across the services where you're never in danger and the hardest thing you have to do is exercise in the mornings. You only have to do it for 3 years, and then you're free with all those fancy benefits. Instead people don't consider it and rack up debt and complain about their debt. The GI Bill will literally pay you to go to school. I got $1200 a month, on top of my tuition and book stipend, for living expenses. Maybe you'll need a part time job to close the gaps.


A Naval reserve friend is currently stationed in the mountains of Afghanistan. Let us not pretend it is a safe way out. National guard, iirc, saw higher iraq casualty % than the marines.

Lastly, there is the ethical question. If you don't support the wars we've been taking on, you shouldn't be told you have to sign up or never complain about education costs. That is pretty farking retarded.
 
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