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(CBS News)   Republicans: Laser-like focus on jobs   (cbsnews.com) divider line 113
    More: Dumbass, Republicans, obamacare, John Feehery, ORC International  
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2968 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Dec 2013 at 10:25 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-30 11:22:10 AM  

qorkfiend: MFAWG: MFK: Just asking: have the Democrats ever done this sort of thing to any Republican legislation or are we in uncharted waters with this crap?

Nothing that didn't involve a war. This is completely off the map

Not even. Democrats were expressing reservations about the way the wars were being prosecuted, not demanding immediate withdrawals, and let's remember what the Democrats did about the wars when they got control of Congress in 2006:


I'm not really referring to anything that happened in the last 10 or 20 years. You really have to go back to the Vietnam era.
 
2013-12-30 11:22:18 AM  

the_geek: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Unless you plan on dying prematurely, you will eventually become an old, sick person eventually.

Yep, and I'll pay my bills when I get there.


You're calling an extra $100 a month today getting "screwed."

Somehow I doubt your financial foresight has taken into account your end-of-life costs.
 
2013-12-30 11:22:20 AM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: the_geek: Make no mistake, every young healthy person got screwed by this change.

Unless you plan on dying prematurely, and suddenly, you will eventually become an old, sick person eventually.


FTFY
 
2013-12-30 11:24:50 AM  

the_geek: somedude210: So do you want to go back to the old system that cost us astronomical amounts of money or do you want single-payer? What is your alternative to Obamacare. I want to hear it.

Because I'm young and healthy I used to have a fairly inexpensive policy that cost $110/mo.  The other side of "pre-existing conditions can't be used to deny you coverage" is that "living a healthy lifestyle doesn't save you money."  Going on the exchange the CHEAPEST packages are over $100/mo more expensive and have higher deductibles than my old plan.  For me, personally, the old "astronomical amounts of money" system gave me better care for a lower price so that would be better.  Make no mistake, every young healthy person got screwed by this change.  Much like every other facet of life we're footing the bill for baby boomers who lived their life with little to no foresight whatsoever.


$200 or $300 / month doesn't sound like a bad price for health insurance to me.
Under the old system that $110/mo policy wouldn't last if you were to be diagnosed with a serious disease.

Thanks to Obamacare if you find yourself diagnosed with cancer you will continue to be able to purchase insurance at a reasonable rate.
 
2013-12-30 11:26:17 AM  
propasaurus:

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: the_geek: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Unless you plan on dying prematurely, and suddenly, you will eventually become an old, sick person eventually.

Yep, and I'll pay my bills when I get there.

You're calling an extra $100 a month today getting "screwed."

Somehow I doubt your financial foresight has taken into account your end-of-life costs.


Half of ALL medical spending occurs in the last year of life.

// solution: kill everyone one year sooner
 
2013-12-30 11:31:03 AM  

contrapunctus: [www.usaonlinepokerguide.com image 425x282]
ALL IN.  IT'LL DEFINITELY WORK THIS TIME.


That would definitely be a drreamhand for Republicans.  They're holding 2-7 and walking back and forth in front of the table high fiveing the audience.
 
2013-12-30 11:32:49 AM  

jjorsett: qorkfiend: Politically, this is the correct move for the GOP, as Congressional Democrats seem to have learned absolutely nothing from 2010 and are falling all over themselves in order to distance themselves from it.

Hey, assholes: you're going to be tagged with the ACA for the midterms regardless of what you do, so farking nut up and embrace the single largest Democratic policy achievement in decades.

I pray to God that the dems take your advice.


Is this "God" you pray to anything like Jesus?
 
2013-12-30 11:33:05 AM  
You're not going to push out monumental, comprehensive health care reform w/o running into a few wrinkles along the way.  They'll get ironed out eventually and all people will remember is what a great shirt they have.  I hope they also remember how hard some people tried to prevent them from getting that shirt.
 
2013-12-30 11:34:03 AM  
OK, we've heard plenty from the young, healthy men who feel they are being screwed by Obamacare. Let's hear from the young, healthy women who are upset about being obliged to buy insurance. No? Anyone? Women always see the doctor more than men and are much more responsible about maintaining their health. Young guys are upset about taking money they would have used to buy booze or a new motorcycle and buying insurance instead. Sorry guys, but, to put it bluntly, tough titty. Man up and pay your dues.
 
2013-12-30 11:35:16 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Half of ALL medical spending occurs in the last year of life.

// solution: kill everyone one year sooner


You are a genius, and I nominate you Head Death Paneler.
 
2013-12-30 11:45:32 AM  

Tomahawk513: You're not going to push out monumental, comprehensive health care reform w/o running into a few wrinkles along the way.  They'll get ironed out eventually and all people will remember is what a great shirt they have.  I hope they also remember how hard some people tried to prevent them from getting that shirt.


It took 5 YEARS for Republicans to get Medicare Part D working decently. That whole 5 years was "we need to not place blame, but work together". Hell, it still breaks every year with any changes.

AMAZING how that is glossed over while screaming like little children over the ACA rollout...
 
2013-12-30 11:47:56 AM  

somedude210: jjorsett: Name some GOP legislation that hosed this number of people this badly this visibly for this long and into the foreseeable future. Obama staked his reputation and legacy on "this crap" and blew it really really really really really badly, and now he and his Democrat confreres are going to have it hung around their necks for as long as it continues to be an issue, which is to say, forever.

son, you hit every branch of the stupid tree when you fell out, didn't you?

You're right, he staked his reputation on Obamacare and making healthcare a possibility to everyone. You think there's a problem with it? Then what's your solution to fix it? And it can't be repeal, I want to hear a substantial policy change that you would implement or like to see the GOP implement instead. So do you want to go back to the old system that cost us astronomical amounts of money or do you want single-payer? What is your alternative to Obamacare. I want to hear it.


Oh that's too easy. Repeal the law, let the insurance companies compete without all the government interference for real and the market will suddenly change its ways. For real this time, not like before when health care companies jacked prices through the roof and made competitive price shopping impossible and insurance companies could drop people without consequence who cost them more money than they could take from them.

My mom died years ago and a week after she died my dad got a bill for $120,000 for her care. Turns out cancer from 1980 was a pre-existing condition. I can't believe anyone could criticize a market based system that delivered such robust customer options!
 
2013-12-30 11:51:18 AM  

HooskerDoo: Obamacare dropped a deuce in the shower and heeled down the drain. Then it raped my cat.


wait, I though those two things happened simultaneously.
 
2013-12-30 11:53:21 AM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: the_geek: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Unless you plan on dying prematurely, you will eventually become an old, sick person eventually.

Yep, and I'll pay my bills when I get there.

You're calling an extra $100 a month today getting "screwed."

Somehow I doubt your financial foresight has taken into account your end-of-life costs.


No joke! The healthcare debate has really brought out the true colors of so many people. How is it that offering people health insurance they can afford and not allowing insurance companies to bang you like a screen door in a hurricane...is a BAD thing? THe other system was better?
 
2013-12-30 11:55:33 AM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: the_geek: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Unless you plan on dying prematurely, you will eventually become an old, sick person eventually.

Yep, and I'll pay my bills when I get there.

You're calling an extra $100 a month today getting "screwed."

Somehow I doubt your financial foresight has taken into account your end-of-life costs.


I was 20 and had a motorcycle accident that rang up just under $1 million in bills for 4 months in the hospital. I had insurance through my employer but the bills don't always wait until end of life to hit.
 
2013-12-30 12:05:43 PM  

Moosecakes: jjorsett: MFK: Just asking: have the Democrats ever done this sort of thing to any Republican legislation or are we in uncharted waters with this crap?

Name some GOP legislation that hosed this number of people this badly this visibly for this long and into the foreseeable future. Obama staked his reputation and legacy on "this crap" and blew it really really really really really badly, and now he and his Democrat confreres are going to have it hung around their necks for as long as it continues to be an issue, which is to say, forever.

It's weird how a poor website rollout is indication that he "blew it" and that the entire law is crap. Because of a crappy website.


They'll get over it.
 
2013-12-30 12:17:17 PM  

the_geek: somedude210: So do you want to go back to the old system that cost us astronomical amounts of money or do you want single-payer? What is your alternative to Obamacare. I want to hear it.

Because I'm young and healthy I used to have a fairly inexpensive policy that cost $110/mo.  The other side of "pre-existing conditions can't be used to deny you coverage" is that "living a healthy lifestyle doesn't save you money."  Going on the exchange the CHEAPEST packages are over $100/mo more expensive and have higher deductibles than my old plan.  For me, personally, the old "astronomical amounts of money" system gave me better care for a lower price so that would be better.  Make no mistake, every young healthy person got screwed by this change.  Much like every other facet of life we're footing the bill for baby boomers who lived their life with little to no foresight whatsoever.


Normally I'd agree with you (actually, normally I wouldn't agree with you)

You know why?

4 years ago, in October of '09, I was a pretty healthy person, never got sick outside of a head cold or two a year, didn't drink much, never smoked. One day, I had started to come down with, what I thought at the time, was the flu. It may have been October, but that whole "swine-flu" thing was going on. So I persevered and tried to wait it out. Drank my liquids, tried to sleep, etc. Well, as the week went on, I started to suffer from insomnia as a result of this flu. In the span of 5 days, I had about 7-8 hours of sleep. Then Thursday night, I finally managed to get some decent sleep (thank you, nyquil) and I was emailing my mother about something (nothing much, just like a 3-4 word response). That response took about 20 minutes to type because I was having trouble typing. I figured it was just me being groggy from the nyquil, so I shook it off and went to bed. I woke up in the middle of the night and ran to the bathroom to vomit. I figured that was the end of it (as it normally is) and went back to sleep. An hour later, I was back in the bathroom. Then a half hour later, than 15 minutes later, then 10 minutes later, then 5, then as soon as I got back to bed, I had to go again. so I was doing this until about morning, when I stood up from the toilet, lost my balance and fell into the shower, possibly passing out or just in a "fark it, I'm too tired for this shiat" and my roommates came in shortly there after, found me and helped me back to bed. I figured that was enough and I called up my mother to ask her for advice as to what to do. She told me to call an ambulance, so the ambulance was on it's way, I decided to put some pants on so I grabbed my shorts and tried to put them on, only to lose my balance and fall over many times. Campus police showed up to make sure i was alright and they found me on the ground, groggy, unbalanced, and probably looking like a typical alcohol poisoning case. So they helped me up, get some pants on and the ambulance came, they took me to a local hospital who couldn't figure out what the hell was wrong with me.

I was eventually shipped to the neurological department at Beth-Israel in Boston. Remember that flu that I had earlier in this story? yeah, turns out that it manifested itself into a semi-rare, borderline MS condition called ADEM (acute disseminated encephamyalitis) which normally only occurs in children between the ages of 8 and 12. I was 20. I spent 3 weeks in the hospital while they tried to get my white blood cells from attacking the fatty nerve tissue surrounding my brain, which was causing my brain to swell up, disrupting my motor functions on the left side of my body. My body was essentially trying to kill itself. I spent a week afterward at rehab to relearn how to walk again and build up my strength. but I will never have full vision in the left side of either eye nor will my memory be as strong as it once was (both those spots on my brain stroked out from the lack of blood flowing to it due to my brain swelling up)

I was (and still am) a very healthy, rarely sick 24 year old male, who now has his own insurance. Had I not been on my parents' insurance, I would be paying for a half dozen MRI tests, a few CAT scans, a week in rehab and 2 weeks of being in the neurological wing of the hospital.

So fark you about how the healthy people overpay, because I am living proof that a healthy person can succumb to illness that can bankrupt most people, had they not had insurance.

We all pay, so we all don't go bankrupt.
 
2013-12-30 12:31:04 PM  

nmrsnr: I know that "never give up, never surrender" is supposed to be a mantra about determination, but you CAN take it too far.


You're forgetting that they are basically nothing more than  a child's rich peoples' playthings.
 
2013-12-30 12:35:20 PM  
Tossing in my own CSB.
Early 20s healthy male, see the doctor every few years with the flu but that was it. Suddenly start having chest pains, call my doc she tells me to go to the ER. Hour later I have xrays done, they immediately admit me with a tumor the size of a baseball pressing into my lungs.
9 months of chemo, 2 more of radiation and it is in remittance.
Halfway through I age out of my parents coverage, we have to pay out the nose for COBRA.
Over 300k worth of treatment.

6 years of follow ups come up clean.

9 years after it all happens, my insurance (now through the small business I have been working at) has to be canceled. The only provider who will cover all of us has been raising rates between 20 and 60% a *year* for the last decade, and even with dropping back to bare minimum coverage it is still the largest company expense we have.
I go on the private market and get out right denied by every insurance provider out there. My company keeps the plan for an extra year just so I can be covered, with me just paying out of pocket the cost (600 a month).

Dec 2013, I go on healthcare.gov, sign up for a full featured plan that covers everything I need as well as dental for 300$ a month (gold level plan).

Thanks Obama.
 
2013-12-30 12:35:36 PM  

Girl Sailor: My mom died years ago and a week after she died my dad got a bill for $120,000 for her care. Turns out cancer from 1980 was a pre-existing condition. I can't believe anyone could criticize a market based system that delivered such robust customer options!


This is my response to anyone who says that Obamacare cancelled their plan, or that the system was so much better before.

Health insurance should be a fairly easy-to-understand transaction.  You pay the insurance company some amount of money in a premium every month, and if you get sick, they pay the doctor/hospital/pharmacy bill.  However. when you go looking to buy health insurance, you run across words like 'deductible', 'copay', 'coinsurance', and (until now) 'lifetime cap'.  And something tells me it wasn't anybody buying insurance who thought all those up.

Assume for just a second that every bad thing you've ever heard about Obama is the God's-honest-truth.  That he was born in Kenya.  That he's bent on destroying America.  That he's a communist plant by the Reptilians.  That Obamacare includes death panels which go and shoot your grandmother in the head.  Even if all of that was true, does any of it mean that an insurance company won't try to screw you right in the asshole, no lube, at every opportunity?
 
2013-12-30 12:39:28 PM  
I notice how after a few personal anecdotes...the free-market defenders have all gone...strangely silent.
 
2013-12-30 12:40:46 PM  
Here's the campaign ads the Democrats should run:

1 - Show people whose lives have been saved because of the ACA. Then have them talk about how Rep (so and so) voted 40 plus times to let them die. They need people of all ages and demographics, including small children. Have a mother holding up a baby, explaining that the Republicans tried to kill her baby 40 plus times.

2 - Have two people talking. One person complains about the problems of the ACA: the website, eligibility issues. Another person from a different state talks about how getting insurance was super easy, because her state has its own exchange and opted in. The first person says that it must be nice to have a governor who puts the heath of the people over politics.

That's the narrative, and that's what the Democrats need to run 24/7 until November. Keep it simple, and make the Republicans try to defend their attempts to kill everyone (especially children) by denying them health care.

/That one's free, Democrats.
//You're welcome.
///Don't Coakley it up
 
2013-12-30 12:40:59 PM  
Much like somedude above I was a healthy 22 year old male when my lung collapsed spontaneously. If I was on the private market my insurance costs would be astronomical without obamacare.
 
2013-12-30 12:46:20 PM  
As a 50 year old man with a spotless driving record, I'm tired of my insurance premiums subsidizing you 20 somethings who can't stay out of car wrecks with your texting while driving and such.

So I guess we are even. Now buy your damn healthcare and shut up.
 
2013-12-30 12:50:57 PM  

Lunchlady: Much like somedude above I was a healthy 22 year old male when my lung collapsed spontaneously. If I was on the private market my insurance costs would be astronomical without obamacare.


This. This is the ad I was talking about. I need your face to be interrupting my TV programs for the next 10-11 months.

mediablitz: As a 50 year old man with a spotless driving record, I'm tired of my insurance premiums subsidizing you 20 somethings who can't stay out of car wrecks with your texting while driving and such.

So I guess we are even. Now buy your damn healthcare and shut up.


Fantastic point. +1 internets to you.
 
2013-12-30 12:52:43 PM  

soporific: Lunchlady: Much like somedude above I was a healthy 22 year old male when my lung collapsed spontaneously. If I was on the private market my insurance costs would be astronomical without obamacare.

This. This is the ad I was talking about. I need your face to be interrupting my TV programs for the next 10-11 months.


Is there a DNC website set up to report ACA successes yet?
 
2013-12-30 12:59:02 PM  

Felgraf: Name some GOP legislation that hosed this number of people this badly this visibly for this long and into the foreseeable future. Obama staked his reputation and legacy on "this crap" and blew it really really really really really badly, and now he and his Democrat confreres are going to have it hung around their necks for as long as it continues to be an issue, which is to say, forever.

Operation Irqai Freedom.


physt: Patriot Act


No Child Left Behind
 
2013-12-30 01:08:18 PM  

A Cave Geek: I notice how after a few personal anecdotes...the free-market defenders have all gone...strangely silent.


It's almost as if people getting screwed as a regular matter of doing business is hard to defend. No, that can't be it. They just can't reason with the FarkLib echo chamber. If we would just agree with them then the country could really move forward.
 
2013-12-30 01:09:56 PM  

shut_it_down: Felgraf: Name some GOP legislation that hosed this number of people this badly this visibly for this long and into the foreseeable future. Obama staked his reputation and legacy on "this crap" and blew it really really really really really badly, and now he and his Democrat confreres are going to have it hung around their necks for as long as it continues to be an issue, which is to say, forever.

Operation Irqai Freedom.

physt: Patriot Act

No Child Left Behind


Medicare part D
 
2013-12-30 01:21:20 PM  

Karac: Assume for just a second that every bad thing you've ever heard about Obama is the God's-honest-truth. That he was born in Kenya. That he's bent on destroying America. That he's a communist plant by the Reptilians. That Obamacare includes death panels which go and shoot your grandmother in the head. Even if all of that was true, does any of it mean that an insurance company won't try to screw you right in the asshole, no lube, at every opportunity?


Unpossible.  What's good for Big Business is good for everybody.
 
2013-12-30 01:23:09 PM  

ikanreed: contrapunctus: [www.usaonlinepokerguide.com image 425x282]
ALL IN.  IT'LL DEFINITELY WORK THIS TIME.

That's actually not a bad hand in texas hold 'em, at least if the first 3 cards give you some hope.


Agreed. The GOP is holding a seven and a YuGiOh card
 
2013-12-30 01:29:06 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: ikanreed: contrapunctus: [www.usaonlinepokerguide.com image 425x282]
ALL IN.  IT'LL DEFINITELY WORK THIS TIME.

That's actually not a bad hand in texas hold 'em, at least if the first 3 cards give you some hope.

Agreed. The GOP is holding a seven and a YuGiOh card


No, they have two "winning poker hands" cards and are going all-in because they have a pair.
 
2013-12-30 01:39:39 PM  

soporific: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: ikanreed: contrapunctus: [www.usaonlinepokerguide.com image 425x282]
ALL IN.  IT'LL DEFINITELY WORK THIS TIME.

That's actually not a bad hand in texas hold 'em, at least if the first 3 cards give you some hope.

Agreed. The GOP is holding a seven and a YuGiOh card

No, they have two "winning poker hands" cards and are going all-in because they have a pair.


And not even top pair, and that pair is all on the board.
 
2013-12-30 01:47:44 PM  

Kibbler: Talk to some vets of the Afghan and Iraq wars.


Felgraf: Operation Irqai Freedom.


Evidently you guys forget that the Democrats voted for both of those wars. They may have later gotten buyer's remorse, but it's too late to revise history and try to say it was only the GOP.

And as long as we're on the subject: yes, the ACA is worse than those wars. Millions of people are losing their coverage and/or losing access to doctors and drugs that they depended on to help manage their health. A significant number of them will suffer and possibly even die as a result. Bad as those wars might be, the men and women fighting them at least signed up voluntarily. The ACA is hurting an order of magnitude more people, people who never volunteered for what's happening to them.
 
2013-12-30 01:52:06 PM  

jjorsett: Kibbler: Talk to some vets of the Afghan and Iraq wars.

Felgraf: Operation Irqai Freedom.

Evidently you guys forget that the Democrats voted for both of those wars. They may have later gotten buyer's remorse, but it's too late to revise history and try to say it was only the GOP.

And as long as we're on the subject: yes, the ACA is worse than those wars. Millions of people are losing their coverage and/or losing access to doctors and drugs that they depended on to help manage their health. A significant number of them will suffer and possibly even die as a result. Bad as those wars might be, the men and women fighting them at least signed up voluntarily. The ACA is hurting an order of magnitude more people, people who never volunteered for what's happening to them.


There is just so much derp in that response that it's hard to even know where to begin.  You're really hopeless.
 
2013-12-30 01:56:12 PM  

physt: jjorsett: Kibbler: Talk to some vets of the Afghan and Iraq wars.

Felgraf: Operation Irqai Freedom.

Evidently you guys forget that the Democrats voted for both of those wars. They may have later gotten buyer's remorse, but it's too late to revise history and try to say it was only the GOP.

And as long as we're on the subject: yes, the ACA is worse than those wars. Millions of people are losing their coverage and/or losing access to doctors and drugs that they depended on to help manage their health. A significant number of them will suffer and possibly even die as a result. Bad as those wars might be, the men and women fighting them at least signed up voluntarily. The ACA is hurting an order of magnitude more people, people who never volunteered for what's happening to them.

There is just so much derp in that response that it's hard to even know where to begin.  You're really hopeless.


Well, at least thank you for not calling me a troll. It seems to be a common assumption that people who have a different viewpoint are only doing it to get a rise out of others. My opinions may have that effect but  they're sincerely held.
 
2013-12-30 02:01:28 PM  

jjorsett: Kibbler: Talk to some vets of the Afghan and Iraq wars.

Felgraf: Operation Irqai Freedom.

Evidently you guys forget that the Democrats voted for both of those wars. They may have later gotten buyer's remorse, but it's too late to revise history and try to say it was only the GOP.

And as long as we're on the subject: yes, the ACA is worse than those wars. Millions of people are losing their coverage and/or losing access to doctors and drugs that they depended on to help manage their health. A significant number of them will suffer and possibly even die as a result. Bad as those wars might be, the men and women fighting them at least signed up voluntarily. The ACA is hurting an order of magnitude more people, people who never volunteered for what's happening to them.


So, because some democrats voted for it, it completely absolves the republicans who ran it, administered it, and completely farked it up?

Is that how it works?
 
2013-12-30 02:02:54 PM  

jjorsett: physt: jjorsett: Kibbler: Talk to some vets of the Afghan and Iraq wars.

Felgraf: Operation Irqai Freedom.

Evidently you guys forget that the Democrats voted for both of those wars. They may have later gotten buyer's remorse, but it's too late to revise history and try to say it was only the GOP.

And as long as we're on the subject: yes, the ACA is worse than those wars. Millions of people are losing their coverage and/or losing access to doctors and drugs that they depended on to help manage their health. A significant number of them will suffer and possibly even die as a result. Bad as those wars might be, the men and women fighting them at least signed up voluntarily. The ACA is hurting an order of magnitude more people, people who never volunteered for what's happening to them.

There is just so much derp in that response that it's hard to even know where to begin.  You're really hopeless.

Well, at least thank you for not calling me a troll. It seems to be a common assumption that people who have a different viewpoint are only doing it to get a rise out of others. My opinions may have that effect but  they're sincerely held.


Oh honestly, I WISH you were troll.
 
2013-12-30 02:09:21 PM  

jjorsett: And as long as we're on the subject: yes, the ACA is worse than those wars. Millions of people are losing their coverage and/or losing access to doctors and drugs that they depended on to help manage their health


Whereas the health insurance system we had before this covered oh so many people and everything was just great.
 
2013-12-30 02:11:57 PM  

jjorsett: physt: jjorsett: Kibbler: Talk to some vets of the Afghan and Iraq wars.

Felgraf: Operation Irqai Freedom.

Evidently you guys forget that the Democrats voted for both of those wars. They may have later gotten buyer's remorse, but it's too late to revise history and try to say it was only the GOP.

And as long as we're on the subject: yes, the ACA is worse than those wars. Millions of people are losing their coverage and/or losing access to doctors and drugs that they depended on to help manage their health. A significant number of them will suffer and possibly even die as a result. Bad as those wars might be, the men and women fighting them at least signed up voluntarily. The ACA is hurting an order of magnitude more people, people who never volunteered for what's happening to them.

There is just so much derp in that response that it's hard to even know where to begin.  You're really hopeless.

Well, at least thank you for not calling me a troll. It seems to be a common assumption that people who have a different viewpoint are only doing it to get a rise out of others. My opinions may have that effect but  they're sincerely held.


Just remember the losing coverage has nothing to do with the ACA, that is entirely the insurance companies. And losing access to doctors is due to changing to another insurance provider that doesn't cover your doctor, you can still see them, it doesn't block you. If a doctor does not accept a particular insurance provider there is probably a reason why and again falls at the feet of the medical industry and the insurance industry. Finally losing access to drugs is just incorrect, no one is getting cut off of their prescriptions and a huge number of people will get access to free or greatly reduced meds that they need.

You are entirely entitled to your opinions,  your facts on the other hand...

Also if you want to compare the wars to the ACA that is fine by me.
What did the wars accomplish for 6 trillion dollars and many thousands of US lives, tens of thousands of permanently disabled veterans,  and hundreds of thousands (if not millions from some estimates) of civilian casualties. What did we get from it?
Compare that to the ACA which is getting tens of millions of Americans better health insurance or health insurance for the first time. Oh and it is saving hundreds of billions of dollars thanks to the taxpayers not having to foot the bill for those that freeload and just go to the ER rather then using their bootstraps to keep medical coverage and not get sick.
Oh, plus the thousands, I promise you, of lives it will save for people that get preventive care now and prevent serious illness in the future


And for points of agreement, yes lots of Democrats did vote for the Iraq war, but they admit it was a mistake and we went in under false pretenses. It cost Hillary the 2008 nomination. And hopefully they have learned from this and future congresses won't be so eager to start a conflict in the future.

One other point I want to make. I don't like the ACA, I think it is bloated and a hand out to the insurance industry. I don't like there being a mandate for everyone to buy insurance.  However it is a hell of an improvement over the old system. I fully welcome any republican, independent or other group that wants to put constructive suggestions on ways to improve it on the table. I want to see if get better, to find ways to make it more fair for those in good health and less likely to cause/allow insurance companies to drop plans. But repeal is not an option at this point. What I want to see is what people that don't like it honestly would like to see it change to make it better for their constituents.
 
2013-12-30 02:19:03 PM  

jjorsett: Kibbler: Talk to some vets of the Afghan and Iraq wars.

Felgraf: Operation Irqai Freedom.

Evidently you guys forget that the Democrats voted for both of those wars. They may have later gotten buyer's remorse, but it's too late to revise history and try to say it was only the GOP.

And as long as we're on the subject: yes, the ACA is worse than those wars. Millions of people are losing their coverage and/or losing access to doctors and drugs that they depended on to help manage their health. A significant number of them will suffer and possibly even die as a result. Bad as those wars might be, the men and women fighting them at least signed up voluntarily. The ACA is hurting an order of magnitude more people, people who never volunteered for what's happening to them.


I'm not saying you're a troll, but the reason people respond to these beliefs with complete incredulity is that nobody ever shows any credible citation for the "harms" supposedly inflicted  by Obamacare. What actual facts are you basing those claims on, or is it just your opinion that it's having a net negative effect?

If you're gonna make such hyperbolic claims, you gotta back it up.
 
2013-12-30 02:24:27 PM  

jjorsett: Kibbler: Talk to some vets of the Afghan and Iraq wars.

Felgraf: Operation Irqai Freedom.

Evidently you guys forget that the Democrats voted for both of those wars. They may have later gotten buyer's remorse, but it's too late to revise history and try to say it was only the GOP.

And as long as we're on the subject: yes, the ACA is worse than those wars. Millions of people are losing their coverage and/or losing access to doctors and drugs that they depended on to help manage their health. A significant number of them will suffer and possibly even die as a result. Bad as those wars might be, the men and women fighting them at least signed up voluntarily. The ACA is hurting an order of magnitude more people, people who never volunteered for what's happening to them.


www.lookingglassnews.org
When did I do that? Because I really, really don't remember doing that!

 
2013-12-30 02:25:01 PM  

the_geek: somedude210: So do you want to go back to the old system that cost us astronomical amounts of money or do you want single-payer? What is your alternative to Obamacare. I want to hear it.

Because I'm young and healthy I used to have a fairly inexpensive policy that cost $110/mo.  The other side of "pre-existing conditions can't be used to deny you coverage" is that "living a healthy lifestyle doesn't save you money."  Going on the exchange the CHEAPEST packages are over $100/mo more expensive and have higher deductibles than my old plan.  For me, personally, the old "astronomical amounts of money" system gave me better care for a lower price so that would be better.  Make no mistake, every young healthy person got screwed by this change.  Much like every other facet of life we're footing the bill for baby boomers who lived their life with little to no foresight whatsoever.


So if you had a catastrophic accident or cancer your cheap ass policy would have provided full coverage and kept you insured, with no lifetime caps or limits?

Color me skeptical.  I know the big picture is hard because it requires critical thought and reasoning, but I know you can do it!
 
2013-12-30 02:27:54 PM  

nmrsnr: I know that "never give up, never surrender" is supposed to be a mantra about determination, but you CAN take it too far.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-12-30 02:30:27 PM  

the_geek: somedude210: So do you want to go back to the old system that cost us astronomical amounts of money or do you want single-payer? What is your alternative to Obamacare. I want to hear it.

Because I'm young and healthy I used to have a fairly inexpensive policy that cost $110/mo.  The other side of "pre-existing conditions can't be used to deny you coverage" is that "living a healthy lifestyle doesn't save you money."  Going on the exchange the CHEAPEST packages are over $100/mo more expensive and have higher deductibles than my old plan.  For me, personally, the old "astronomical amounts of money" system gave me better care for a lower price so that would be better.  Make no mistake, every young healthy person got screwed by this change.  Much like every other facet of life we're footing the bill for baby boomers who lived their life with little to no foresight whatsoever.


I was diagnosed with UC over the summer. There was noway I could prevent it.

Obamacare helped me out tremendously before and wil continue to help me afterwards.

What will you replace obamacare with so that I wont get screwed by the old system. I have a pre-existing condition now.

Or am I just farked?
 
2013-12-30 02:38:55 PM  

Girl Sailor: A Cave Geek: I notice how after a few personal anecdotes...the free-market defenders have all gone...strangely silent.

It's almost as if people getting screwed as a regular matter of doing business is hard to defend. No, that can't be it. They just can't reason with the FarkLib echo chamber. If we would just agree with them then the country could really move forward.


probably more like lunch is over and we need to get back to work...

/just sayin
 
2013-12-30 02:42:36 PM  

chasd00: Girl Sailor: A Cave Geek: I notice how after a few personal anecdotes...the free-market defenders have all gone...strangely silent.

It's almost as if people getting screwed as a regular matter of doing business is hard to defend. No, that can't be it. They just can't reason with the FarkLib echo chamber. If we would just agree with them then the country could really move forward.

probably more like lunch is over and we need to get back to work...

/just sayin


You don't see me getting any work done do you!
 
2013-12-30 02:52:46 PM  
Actually they're kind of like dogs when you think about it..."SQUIRREL"

Benghazi...where??!!
Obamacare...where??!!
Foodstamps...where??!!
Reagan...where??!!

kind of fun, when you think about it...and it doesn't matter if Reagan is dead.

/(in a parachute after crashing your plane into your ally's..."I hate Obamas...")
 
2013-12-30 03:11:50 PM  

jjorsett: physt: jjorsett: Kibbler: Talk to some vets of the Afghan and Iraq wars.

Felgraf: Operation Irqai Freedom.

Evidently you guys forget that the Democrats voted for both of those wars. They may have later gotten buyer's remorse, but it's too late to revise history and try to say it was only the GOP.

And as long as we're on the subject: yes, the ACA is worse than those wars. Millions of people are losing their coverage and/or losing access to doctors and drugs that they depended on to help manage their health. A significant number of them will suffer and possibly even die as a result. Bad as those wars might be, the men and women fighting them at least signed up voluntarily. The ACA is hurting an order of magnitude more people, people who never volunteered for what's happening to them.

There is just so much derp in that response that it's hard to even know where to begin.  You're really hopeless.

Well, at least thank you for not calling me a troll. It seems to be a common assumption that people who have a different viewpoint are only doing it to get a rise out of others. My opinions may have that effect but  they're sincerely held.


Sounds like something a troll would say.
 
2013-12-30 04:20:34 PM  

MFK: Just asking: have the Democrats ever done this sort of thing to any Republican legislation or are we in uncharted waters with this crap?


Well, I hope it happens with the assaults on voting.
 
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