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(University of Michigan)   This is what "English" looked like 550 years ago. Thank God that we had the great language of French to help bring us out of our vulgar prose   (quod.lib.umich.edu) divider line 125
    More: Sick, god, prose  
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12928 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Dec 2013 at 9:14 AM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-28 06:28:26 AM  
All that just to say "Pay up, sucker"?
 
2013-12-28 06:33:00 AM  

Elvis_Bogart: All that just to say "Pay up, sucker"?


Wretyn wyth onhertis ease the Monday next aftir Relike Sonday. By your modir.

Let me try to translate that

Written with love on the Monday after Relick Sunday, your mother.
 
2013-12-28 06:39:17 AM  

cman: Wretyn wyth onhertis ease the Monday next aftir Relike Sonday. By your modir.


I thought that was Welsh at first, but then I realized there were too many vowels.
 
2013-12-28 06:45:24 AM  
Not that bad given that there was little standardization of the language at that point.
 
2013-12-28 07:00:12 AM  
It's just Middle English. It's not as if it's even all that difficult to read. Besides, French would've already be influencing English at this point, considering that this took place 400 years after the Norman conquest.
 
2013-12-28 08:24:24 AM  

RexTalionis: It's just Middle English. It's not as if it's even all that difficult to read. Besides, French would've already be influencing English at this point, considering that this took place 400 years after the Norman conquest.


Yeah, try this on for size, from the Angle-Saxon Chronicle, written around the 12th Century:

An. M.LXVI. On þyssum geare man halgode þet mynster æt Westmynstre on Cyldamæsse dæg 7 se cyng Eadward forðferde on Twelfts mæsse æfen 7 hine mann bebyrgede on Twelftan mæssedæg innan þære niwa halgodre circean on Westmyntre 7 Harold eorl feng to Englalandes cynerice swa swa se cyng hit him geuðe 7 eac men hine þærto gecuron 7 wæs gebletsod to cynge on Twelftan mæssedæg 7 þa ylcan geare þe he cyng wæs he for ut mid sciphere togeanes Willelme ... 7 þa hwile com Willelm eorl upp æt Hestingan on Sce Michaeles mæssedæg 7 Harold com norðan 7 him wið gefeaht ear þan þe his here com eall 7 þær he feoll 7 his twægen gebroðra Gyrð 7 Leofwine and Willelm þis land geeode 7 com to Westmynstre 7 Ealdred arceb hine to cynge gehalgode 7 menn guldon him gyld 7 gislas sealdon 7 syððan heora land bohtan.

Translation, and more info, here:  http://www.public.asu.edu/~gelderen/hel/chron.html
 
2013-12-28 08:26:44 AM  

jake_lex: RexTalionis: It's just Middle English. It's not as if it's even all that difficult to read. Besides, French would've already be influencing English at this point, considering that this took place 400 years after the Norman conquest.

Yeah, try this on for size, from the Angle-Saxon Chronicle, written around the 12th Century:

An. M.LXVI. On þyssum geare man halgode þet mynster æt Westmynstre on Cyldamæsse dæg 7 se cyng Eadward forðferde on Twelfts mæsse æfen 7 hine mann bebyrgede on Twelftan mæssedæg innan þære niwa halgodre circean on Westmyntre 7 Harold eorl feng to Englalandes cynerice swa swa se cyng hit him geuðe 7 eac men hine þærto gecuron 7 wæs gebletsod to cynge on Twelftan mæssedæg 7 þa ylcan geare þe he cyng wæs he for ut mid sciphere togeanes Willelme ... 7 þa hwile com Willelm eorl upp æt Hestingan on Sce Michaeles mæssedæg 7 Harold com norðan 7 him wið gefeaht ear þan þe his here com eall 7 þær he feoll 7 his twægen gebroðra Gyrð 7 Leofwine and Willelm þis land geeode 7 com to Westmynstre 7 Ealdred arceb hine to cynge gehalgode 7 menn guldon him gyld 7 gislas sealdon 7 syððan heora land bohtan.

Translation, and more info, here:  http://www.public.asu.edu/~gelderen/hel/chron.html


That should be "Anglo-Saxon Chronicle", of course.

And a hint what it's about if you can't tell: it's about the event that would introduce French influence into the English language, William the Conquerer landing at Hastings.
 
2013-12-28 08:31:21 AM  

jake_lex: Yeah, try this on for size, from the Angle-Saxon Chronicle, written around the 12th Century:


It's not written around the 12th century. It was written in the 11th century probably right after 1066, the date that was in the document.. The particular manuscript was copied in the 12th century.

Wiki: Such was the case with the Peterborough Chronicle: a fire compelled the abbey to copy the chronicles from other churches up to 1120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_Chronicle
 
2013-12-28 09:12:42 AM  
Wy really loved the 'y's back then, dydn't wy?
 
2013-12-28 09:17:43 AM  
Still a better love story then Twlight.
 
2013-12-28 09:22:55 AM  

RexTalionis: It's just Middle English. It's not as if it's even all that difficult to read. Besides, French would've already be influencing English at this point, considering that this took place 400 years after the Norman conquest.


The French influence had already had its full impact long before the linked piece was written. i have no idea what submitter is going on about.
 
2013-12-28 09:23:27 AM  

gopher321: Wy really loved the 'y's back then, dydn't wy?


Back in the day, the letter "y" wasn't just a sometimes vowel.
 
2013-12-28 09:33:32 AM  

Gordon Bennett: RexTalionis: It's just Middle English. It's not as if it's even all that difficult to read. Besides, French would've already be influencing English at this point, considering that this took place 400 years after the Norman conquest.

The French influence had already had its full impact long before the linked piece was written. i have no idea what submitter is going on about.


Came here to say this. French/Latin-derived loan words are all over that article.

/cognates are your friend!
 
2013-12-28 09:35:38 AM  
I got stuck in a Masterpieces of Literature class my freshman year of college and one of the assignments was The Canterbury Tales. The TA that taught the course absolutely LOVED the collection to the point that she had a record (scratchy vinyl) of the tome as read in Middle English. She decided to spring this on us one Friday morning (8:00 class) during a big football weekend. Those that made the class that morning were by and large quite hungover myself included. She was flat out giddy about the 'treat' that she was bestowing upon us. The class was held in a 500 seat lecture hall and by the end of the class not a single soul besides the TA was awake.

/csb
 
2013-12-28 09:36:05 AM  
I thought that was Sarah Palin's Facebook page at first.
 
2013-12-28 09:40:06 AM  
Looks like some of the text messages I've received only longer.
 
2013-12-28 09:42:46 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: I got stuck in a Masterpieces of Literature class my freshman year of college and one of the assignments was The Canterbury Tales. The TA that taught the course absolutely LOVED the collection to the point that she had a record (scratchy vinyl) of the tome as read in Middle English. She decided to spring this on us one Friday morning (8:00 class) during a big football weekend. Those that made the class that morning were by and large quite hungover myself included. She was flat out giddy about the 'treat' that she was bestowing upon us. The class was held in a 500 seat lecture hall and by the end of the class not a single soul besides the TA was awake.

/csb


Wait, if you were asleep at the end of class how could you know if the TA was the only person awake?
 
2013-12-28 09:44:30 AM  
So basically, it's Scottish.

/it all makes sense if you read it with a Irvine Welsh accent.
 
2013-12-28 09:45:55 AM  

RexTalionis: It's just Middle English. It's not as if it's even all that difficult to read. Besides, French would've already be influencing English at this point, considering that this took place 400 years after the Norman conquest.


Yeah, real old English had almost a perfect phonemic orthography before the French farked everything up with their shiatty Latin pidgin crap they were making up as they went along.  I think, anyhow, been a while since I took those classes.
 
2013-12-28 09:48:47 AM  

RexTalionis: jake_lex: Yeah, try this on for size, from the Angle-Saxon Chronicle, written around the 12th Century:

It's not written around the 12th century. It was written in the 11th century probably right after 1066, the date that was in the document.. The particular manuscript was copied in the 12th century.

Wiki: Such was the case with the Peterborough Chronicle: a fire compelled the abbey to copy the chronicles from other churches up to 1120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_Chronicle


Yeah, true, and some of the later entries in it start transitioning into Middle English.  It's pretty fascinating how radically the language has changed, however, and you kind of wonder what English would have ended up sounding like without the Norman influence.  I'm guessing a lot like Dutch, or Danish perhaps.  Not quite Scandinavian, but not strictly Germanic either.
 
2013-12-28 09:59:16 AM  
Meow said the dog is more than 500 years old?
 
2013-12-28 10:02:28 AM  

gopher321: Wy really loved the 'y's back then, dydn't wy?


img.fark.net
 
2013-12-28 10:04:04 AM  
What's the big deal? That's the most literate and lucid Youtube comment I've seen in months.
 
2013-12-28 10:07:20 AM  
Reads like every other Facebook post.
 
2013-12-28 10:09:16 AM  
Studied and read Latin through HS and exempted a language requirement at university after a Latin exam.  Some of the best advice my Dad gave me, regarding my education.

/Put some new groundcover etc. on his grave last Spring

//sniff - it just got dusty, in here
 
das
2013-12-28 10:13:47 AM  
Michigan sucks!!
 
2013-12-28 10:19:33 AM  
French was already well incorporated by that point. It was just pronunciation (and later, spelling) that evolved. I have an orders letter written to my great x 7, grandfather while he served in the British army seconded to the East India Company. Even though it was an official document written in the early 1730's, where a lot of the spelling seems to be based entirely on the writer's inclination, while other words that were commonly used were spelled the way we would.
 
2013-12-28 10:37:11 AM  
English degree thread?

Suck it haters, our pieces of paper are useful here.
 
2013-12-28 10:42:49 AM  

grinding_journalist: English degree thread?

Suck it haters, our pieces of paper are useful here.


Studying English and its literature is something everyone should do. I just don't know why I would ever pay anyone to teach me about it.  Same thing as history.
 
2013-12-28 10:50:52 AM  

grinding_journalist: English degree thread?

Suck it haters, our pieces of paper are useful here.


You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts.
 
2013-12-28 10:54:16 AM  
Actually the Norman influence on English did the language a huge favor.  It put the language in the hands of the peasants for a few hundred years.  That ditched a whole lot of fancy Germanic grammar.
 
2013-12-28 10:54:54 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: I got stuck in a Masterpieces of Literature class my freshman year of college and one of the assignments was The Canterbury Tales. The TA that taught the course absolutely LOVED the collection to the point that she had a record (scratchy vinyl) of the tome as read in Middle English. She decided to spring this on us one Friday morning (8:00 class) during a big football weekend. Those that made the class that morning were by and large quite hungover myself included. She was flat out giddy about the 'treat' that she was bestowing upon us. The class was held in a 500 seat lecture hall and by the end of the class not a single soul besides the TA was awake.

/csb


Somewhat related CSB: I had a lit professor who read us a few passages of Beowulf, from the original text. Was pretty interesting but fortunately didn't go on long.
 
2013-12-28 10:55:17 AM  
I've always wondered if they spoke the way they wrote?
I can't imagine how long it would take to purvey a simple thought.
 
2013-12-28 10:57:47 AM  

FLMountainMan: grinding_journalist: English degree thread?

Suck it haters, our pieces of paper are useful here.

Studying English and its literature is something everyone should do. I just don't know why I would ever pay anyone to teach me about it.  Same thing as history.


In hindsight, I should have toughed out the math (which nearly failed me out of school) and gotten a mechanical engineering degree and just read a lot in my spare time.

In practice, some of my required English classes were by far and away the most interesting and memorable things I learned in school; hell, I've been out for over a decade and my wife and I got into a discussion about the difference between "p" and "b" sounds (we have an infant) and after about 30 seconds she realized she was playing in my backyard, and I knew all of the rules.

It also gave me the chance to go to London and learn about Shakespeare and British lit from the most awesomely stereotypical British professors you could imagine, as well as give me some of my favorite quotes of all time, such as:

"The function of criticism is to turn taste in to judgment."

and

"When I was in university, I did a bit of studying in Ireland, and it made me realize just what insular assholes we English are, yeah? Sorry, but we're trying."

/Alan Hurst, I hope you're still alive
 
2013-12-28 11:00:41 AM  

indarwinsshadow: I can't imagine how long it would take to purvey a simple thought.


I'd use "convey" here, as you don't really "provide" thoughts or words to other people as much as you're transporting an idea with language.
 
2013-12-28 11:02:54 AM  
Ok with the use of the term "mony":

img2u.info

/Sex, drugs, and rock and roll, like it's 1983.
 
2013-12-28 11:07:57 AM  

gopher321: Wy really loved the 'y's back then, dydn't wy?


Y was frequently not the letter Y but the letter Thorn which looked like Y. It sounded like th so "Ye old tea shop" is actually pronounced "the old tea shop".
 
2013-12-28 11:08:05 AM  

jake_lex: RexTalionis: It's just Middle English. It's not as if it's even all that difficult to read. Besides, French would've already be influencing English at this point, considering that this took place 400 years after the Norman conquest.

Yeah, try this on for size, from the Angle-Saxon Chronicle, written around the 12th Century:

An. M.LXVI. On þyssum geare man halgode þet mynster æt Westmynstre on Cyldamæsse dæg 7 se cyng Eadward forðferde on Twelfts mæsse æfen 7 hine mann bebyrgede on Twelftan mæssedæg innan þære niwa halgodre circean on Westmyntre 7 Harold eorl feng to Englalandes cynerice swa swa se cyng hit him geuðe 7 eac men hine þærto gecuron 7 wæs gebletsod to cynge on Twelftan mæssedæg 7 þa ylcan geare þe he cyng wæs he for ut mid sciphere togeanes Willelme ... 7 þa hwile com Willelm eorl upp æt Hestingan on Sce Michaeles mæssedæg 7 Harold com norðan 7 him wið gefeaht ear þan þe his here com eall 7 þær he feoll 7 his twægen gebroðra Gyrð 7 Leofwine and Willelm þis land geeode 7 com to Westmynstre 7 Ealdred arceb hine to cynge gehalgode 7 menn guldon him gyld 7 gislas sealdon 7 syððan heora land bohtan.

Translation, and more info, here:  http://www.public.asu.edu/~gelderen/hel/chron.html



Merry Childermas!
 
2013-12-28 11:08:58 AM  
Jeezus, I can see what literacy back then was in the low to mid double digits. That's not just a chore, but downright painful to read. GET TO THE POINT ALREADY!
 
2013-12-28 11:12:05 AM  
More legible than most text messages or Facebook statuses.
 
2013-12-28 11:12:33 AM  

jake_lex: RexTalionis: jake_lex: Yeah, try this on for size, from the Angle-Saxon Chronicle, written around the 12th Century:

It's not written around the 12th century. It was written in the 11th century probably right after 1066, the date that was in the document.. The particular manuscript was copied in the 12th century.

Wiki: Such was the case with the Peterborough Chronicle: a fire compelled the abbey to copy the chronicles from other churches up to 1120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_Chronicle

Yeah, true, and some of the later entries in it start transitioning into Middle English.  It's pretty fascinating how radically the language has changed, however, and you kind of wonder what English would have ended up sounding like without the Norman influence.  I'm guessing a lot like Dutch, or Danish perhaps.  Not quite Scandinavian, but not strictly Germanic either.


Look up "Anglish Moot" on the google.
 
2013-12-28 11:12:41 AM  

Elvis_Bogart: All that just to say "Pay up, sucker"?


This is usually my writing style when I'm explaining why I don't have the rent.
 
2013-12-28 11:17:34 AM  
Apparently Fark has a few cunning linguists.
 
2013-12-28 11:21:25 AM  

jake_lex: RexTalionis: It's just Middle English. It's not as if it's even all that difficult to read. Besides, French would've already be influencing English at this point, considering that this took place 400 years after the Norman conquest.

Yeah, try this on for size, from the Angle-Saxon Chronicle, written around the 12th Century:

An. M.LXVI. On þyssum geare man halgode þet mynster æt Westmynstre on Cyldamæsse dæg 7 se cyng Eadward forðferde on Twelfts mæsse æfen 7 hine mann bebyrgede on Twelftan mæssedæg innan þære niwa halgodre circean on Westmyntre 7 Harold eorl feng to Englalandes cynerice swa swa se cyng hit him geuðe 7 eac men hine þærto gecuron 7 wæs gebletsod to cynge on Twelftan mæssedæg 7 þa ylcan geare þe he cyng wæs he for ut mid sciphere togeanes Willelme ... 7 þa hwile com Willelm eorl upp æt Hestingan on Sce Michaeles mæssedæg 7 Harold com norðan 7 him wið gefeaht ear þan þe his here com eall 7 þær he feoll 7 his twægen gebroðra Gyrð 7 Leofwine and Willelm þis land geeode 7 com to Westmynstre 7 Ealdred arceb hine to cynge gehalgode 7 menn guldon him gyld 7 gislas sealdon 7 syððan heora land bohtan.

Translation, and more info, here:  http://www.public.asu.edu/~gelderen/hel/chron.html


I read that in the voice of Michael Wood, murmuring into the ear of a blonde at the end of the bar.
 
2013-12-28 11:28:27 AM  
stream1.gifsoup.com
 
2013-12-28 11:32:38 AM  
The Pastons and Their England by H.S. Bennett is an excellent book.

Read it in school.

If Chaucer were to show up today no one would be able to understand him.
 
2013-12-28 11:46:25 AM  
That great language of French...that was discarded into the dustbin of history nearly as long ago.

French is the 17th-most spoken language, behind English, Spanish, Portuguese, German, etc. But hey, you are still edging out Marathi, Tamil, and Urdu. For now.
 
2013-12-28 11:47:25 AM  

Gergesa: Dancin_In_Anson: I got stuck in a Masterpieces of Literature class my freshman year of college and one of the assignments was The Canterbury Tales. The TA that taught the course absolutely LOVED the collection to the point that she had a record (scratchy vinyl) of the tome as read in Middle English. She decided to spring this on us one Friday morning (8:00 class) during a big football weekend. Those that made the class that morning were by and large quite hungover myself included. She was flat out giddy about the 'treat' that she was bestowing upon us. The class was held in a 500 seat lecture hall and by the end of the class not a single soul besides the TA was awake.

/csb

Wait, if you were asleep at the end of class how could you know if the TA was the only person awake?


Ooh ooh..I know this one!

The TA is DiA's mother!

Or something like that.
 
2013-12-28 11:48:25 AM  
Pricipal . Caught sayof school that has stoped Handstandsing " See, told ya so" Is He dead or not. CNN Says yes.
 
2013-12-28 11:56:59 AM  

SevenizGud: That great language of French...that was discarded into the dustbin of history nearly as long ago.

French is the 17th-most spoken language, behind English, Spanish, Portuguese, German, etc. But hey, you are still edging out Marathi, Tamil, and Urdu. For now.


"Bonjour."
"Crazy gibberish!"
 
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