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(WTOP) NewsFlash Federal judge rules that the NSA can spy on you all it wants, because shut up and watch Duck Dynasty, that's why   (wtop.com) divider line 552
    More: NewsFlash, NSA, federal judges, phone surveillance  
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14863 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Dec 2013 at 12:59 PM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-12-27 02:31:57 PM

slayer199: We The People need to reign in the power of the government in 2014.


derp
 
2013-12-27 02:32:31 PM

joonyer: FTFA:   The judge concluded that the program was legal and a valuable part of the nation's efforts to combat the threat of terrorism.

Pauley you shiatbag activist. You are supposed to interpret the law, that is all. If I wanted to hear your personal opinion about shiat you know nothing about, say for instance, mass surveillance, I would ask.


That is why I call, TROLL.
Nothing but opinion.
 
2013-12-27 02:33:33 PM
PLC, not CNC.
 
2013-12-27 02:33:47 PM

I_C_Weener: whidbey: RanDomino: whidbey
Or it's far more likely that he knows something we don't.

When evidence fails, there's always magical thinking to the rescue.

Actually the "evidence" suggests that Al Qaeda really are enemies now, thanks to Bush.

Keep ignoring that while you continue to post above and outside the ideology.

You are starting to sound a bit Truthy there.


Nope. Just telling it like it is. We hit the hornet's nest instead of opting for peaceful negotiation, and now it's escalated into something a lot worse.

Again, none of this is a stellar revelation. Thanks to Bush, Al Qaeda is a real international threat now.
 
2013-12-27 02:34:04 PM

quansem: The standard has been set. All major powers on the planet will be looking to eventually emulate the American model of intel gathering in order to compete on an even playing field. Not unlike nuclear weapons, drone strikes, or CNC virii, America tends to forget that just because they were the first ones to up the ante doesn't mean it will end with them having sole control over whatever new capability they have devised.

Proliferation, biatches.


Instead of dirt, this time you have to get your own internet.
 
2013-12-27 02:34:17 PM

whidbey: Actually the "evidence" suggests that Al Qaeda really are enemies now, thanks to Bush.

Keep ignoring that while you continue to post above and outside the ideology.


I'm not going to bother to defend Bush (because he's indefensible), but you're obviously blind to Obama's failures.  Obama dropped more drones in the Middle East in his first 4 years than Bush did in 8.  Those strikes killed more civilians and created more enemies.  So don't pretend that he hasn't contributed to the problem.
 
2013-12-27 02:37:01 PM

slayer199: whidbey: Actually the "evidence" suggests that Al Qaeda really are enemies now, thanks to Bush.

Keep ignoring that while you continue to post above and outside the ideology.

I'm not going to bother to defend Bush (because he's indefensible), but you're obviously blind to Obama's failures.  Obama dropped more drones in the Middle East in his first 4 years than Bush did in 8.  Those strikes killed more civilians and created more enemies.  So don't pretend that he hasn't contributed to the problem.


Ah you're just above all this, aren't you?
 
2013-12-27 02:37:22 PM
If people don't like it they can vote in new Congressional representatives (House & Senate) and get things changed, or vote for a different candidate for President.

But you won't do that.  You like your guy.  Your guy is fine.  It's everyone else that's wrong.
 
2013-12-27 02:39:11 PM

KaonSZ: If people don't like it they can vote in new Congressional representatives (House & Senate) and get things changed, or vote for a different candidate for President.

But you won't do that.  You like your guy.  Your guy is fine.  It's everyone else that's wrong.


Or that people really do buy into the US Empire concept, and have supported it for years.
 
2013-12-27 02:39:21 PM
You would think with everything the NSA was doing they could have stopped any of the mass shootings that have happened since 9/11.

/worthless government spying on citizens is worthless
 
2013-12-27 02:39:44 PM
Dang....might as well toss the Bill of Rights and US Constitution into this:
 
2013-12-27 02:39:48 PM

Headso: Cold_Sassy: mudpants: Saw that one coming.

It was already here the moment the "Patriot Act" was signed into law.  Why did nobody realize it then?

plenty of people did, you were called a traitor and a terrorist sympathizer for bringing it up though.

The Patriot Act had a renewal clause.  President Obama renewed it...Remember Obama, the first Muslim President who refuses to say "War on Terror?"  Yeah, that guy.  If 9/11 would've happened on his watch, he would of blamed a Youtube video.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/patriot-act-extension-signe d- obama-autopen_n_867851.html

Good try on "blaming Bush."  It never gets old.
 
2013-12-27 02:40:52 PM

N4LG4s: Dang....might as well toss the Bill of Rights and US Constitution into this:


www.awesomebackgrounds.com
 
2013-12-27 02:40:56 PM
whidbey derping to eleven
 
2013-12-27 02:41:08 PM
The real question is would the NSA - or other government organizations - even give a fark if this or that court said it is illegal?
 
2013-12-27 02:41:28 PM

slayer199: whidbey: derp

About what I'd expect from a leftist sheep such as yourself.  You so blindly defend Obama and the left on everything, I would bet you're on the DNC's payroll.  I suppose you won't be happy until the US resembles the Soviet Union under Stalin.  On your way comrade, nothing to see here.


Non-sequitur is non. Troll harder.

Besides, it was hardly a derp comment.  The point is there are people on both sides of the aisle that want to reign in the surveillance state.  We need to vote them in and vote out those that wish to retain the unfettered surveillance state.

Of course it was derpy. You have no alternatives. No 3rd party. Nothing. You'd do well to support the Democrats and condemn aggressive hardliner bullshiat like this.

But no, you'd rather divide the country and let the far right dominate it.
 
2013-12-27 02:41:35 PM

whidbey: I_C_Weener: whidbey: RanDomino: whidbey
Or it's far more likely that he knows something we don't.

When evidence fails, there's always magical thinking to the rescue.

Actually the "evidence" suggests that Al Qaeda really are enemies now, thanks to Bush.

Keep ignoring that while you continue to post above and outside the ideology.

You are starting to sound a bit Truthy there.

Nope. Just telling it like it is. We hit the hornet's nest instead of opting for peaceful negotiation, and now it's escalated into something a lot worse.

Again, none of this is a stellar revelation. Thanks to Bush, Al Qaeda is a real international threat now.


So, are you saying that in his first 9 months of office, Bush enraged Al Queada so much that they flew airplanes into our buildings?  Or surely you are referring to the embassy bombings that took place before he took office in Kenya.  Or maybe you refer to the USS Cole bombing.  Seeing as how these were in 3 different countries, I'd call that international.  Of course that only counts the attacks on American interests.  I'm pretty sure their agenda over the years has included many different countries and their interests...even before Bush ran for president.

C'mon man.
 
2013-12-27 02:43:15 PM

Claude Ballse: The terrorists didn't win. The lost to an entirely different group that took over the role of terrorism: the NSA. Absolutely they hate our freedom, because it gives us powe over them.

The answer isn't fighting this in courts of law, electing new officials, or anything of the sort. Because there will always be this slight if hand game where if we rule one "program" illegal, they'll just start up another one thst gets tangeled up in the legal system that we the have to fight.

No, the only way to get rid of this shiat is to purge religion from our government once and for all. You have tens of millions of people that already believe in some invisible sky god, and think that angels watch over them. The NSA is no different that the tenants of your modern religions. They've already been raised to accept this and encourage it. For most, this is just more of god's work. Because how can you convince someone that an anonymous brown person a world away isn't a threat when they already fear demons thst don't even exist?

Purge the bilnd faithful for the seeing skeptics, and our problems will be taken care of very quickly.


Wow - that's got to be one of the most ridiculous jumps in logic I have seen in a long time.   I'm very religious and so aremost of my friends and not one of us wants the NSA to have this kind of power.  If anything, religious people fear a secular government that would use this power to stamp out their religion altogether.  Probably shouldn't have said that - cause now that probably makes you a fan of the NSA.

Liberty is a Christian value believe it or not.
 
2013-12-27 02:43:26 PM

whidbey: Ah you're just above all this, aren't you?


I hate both parties and have voted 3rd party since '92.  I'm not necessarily above it, but I'm not blind to the failings of either party...unlike yourself.

There are a few farkers here that are ardent leftists, that have been extremely critical of Obama on a number of civil liberties issues...whereas you do nothing to defend, defend, defend...and failing defense, blame Bush (buh-buh-buh BUSH!).  I don't agree with them on most issues, but at least I could respect them for maintaining the integrity of their ideology irrespective of party politics.  You sir, have none of that.
 
2013-12-27 02:43:34 PM

whidbey: Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

You're expecting us to buy into the theory that Obama is powerless, and a victim of conversatives?  If you truly, honestly believe that,, then you're dumber than I would have thought.  I mean, i know liberals are by definition very weak-minded and easily conned, but geez, this takes it to a new level of retardation.


Uh.... yeah Obama does a lot of stuff that is BS that I disagree with.  And you can make the same points about all the suddenly born-again "libertarians" who suddenly started caring about this stuff when Obama got elected.

Here's an idea - how about we stop framing every policy issue as "oh yeah? Well my guy is better than / not as bad as your guy!"

There is plenty of bad policy that was started by Bush and now is being continued by Obama.  Arguing about who had a crappier record is pointless and doesn't resolve anything.

It is the same record, played over and over, actually.
Different faces and names. Even different colors for your amusement.
Makes no difference.
Wonder why?


Seriously - all the dumb, tribal, "my guy is better than your guy" crap just distracts everyone from the actual issues, and ensures that politicians aren't held accountable.

Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.



I don't ignore that at all. I consider Bush to be WAY worse than Obama, and in fact, I can't stand the "both sides are bad" false equivalence BS.   With that said, Obama came into office promising to change a lot of the horrible policies / practices from the Bush administration.  Unfortunately, he has not lived up to those promises in a number of ways - his justice department has basically ignored widespread criminal fraud in the banking sector, and his foreign policy - while much, much better than Bush's foreign policy - is still being carried out in a manner that tramples on civil liberties.  From the extensive snooping on Americans and foreigners, to extrajudicial execution via drone strikes, to his failure to close Gitmo, he has continued a lot of bad policies that started with Bush.  I voted for Obama, but just because I voted for him doesn't mean I support everything he does.  In many ways he has been far too conservative.

Now, to Obama's credit, unlike Bush he hasn't invaded a country based on false pretenses and outright lies.  So that's good.
 
2013-12-27 02:44:42 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-27 02:45:33 PM

snocone: quansem: The standard has been set. All major powers on the planet will be looking to eventually emulate the American model of intel gathering in order to compete on an even playing field. Not unlike nuclear weapons, drone strikes, or CNC virii, America tends to forget that just because they were the first ones to up the ante doesn't mean it will end with them having sole control over whatever new capability they have devised.

Proliferation, biatches.

Instead of dirt, this time you have to get your own internet.


Brazil and Germany agree, much to the chagrin of some American tech giants. The problem is that the Chinese (and others) are extremely successful at copying an existing model and improving on it. Maybe not the first or second prototype, but they will get there. P.L.A. Unit 61398 might be an indicator.

/Speaking of dirt, it looks like Chinese dirt has all the rare earths in it. Interesting times..
 
2013-12-27 02:45:36 PM
Politically Partisan Judges are Best Judges!
 
2013-12-27 02:45:44 PM
First, I am Canadian, so one one level..pfft. But, Mr. Franklin's homily aside, I think that the only way to protect your constitution is to understand that those in power are going to ignore it now and then. It would behoove to always watch just how much of it is being undermined, but the sad fact is that there are too many things in play today that simply beggared the imagination when the document was born.
I also note with a bit of sadness that this kind of debate often raises less ire than some of the movie star things or some other subjects that lack permanence or weight. It's the way we humans are, I guess.
Good luck, neighbbour.
 
2013-12-27 02:46:08 PM

I_C_Weener: whidbey: I_C_Weener: whidbey: RanDomino: whidbey
Or it's far more likely that he knows something we don't.

When evidence fails, there's always magical thinking to the rescue.

Actually the "evidence" suggests that Al Qaeda really are enemies now, thanks to Bush.

Keep ignoring that while you continue to post above and outside the ideology.

You are starting to sound a bit Truthy there.

Nope. Just telling it like it is. We hit the hornet's nest instead of opting for peaceful negotiation, and now it's escalated into something a lot worse.

Again, none of this is a stellar revelation. Thanks to Bush, Al Qaeda is a real international threat now.

So, are you saying that in his first 9 months of office, Bush enraged Al Queada so much that they flew airplanes into our buildings?  Or surely you are referring to the embassy bombings that took place before he took office in Kenya.  Or maybe you refer to the USS Cole bombing.  Seeing as how these were in 3 different countries, I'd call that international.  Of course that only counts the attacks on American interests.  I'm pretty sure their agenda over the years has included many different countries and their interests...even before Bush ran for president.

C'mon man.


9/11 could have been handled way differently. Instead, it turned into an embarrassing dick-waving failure that cost this country trillions of dollars, dead soldiers, dead Afghanis and Iraqis, and set this country even lower in the eyes of the world.

You just can't admit that, can you? You can't take a look and understand why we are in the shiat we're in now.

To you, Obama is just another dude like Bush. He HAS to be.
 
2013-12-27 02:46:29 PM
Government saying the government can do what it wants. That's why we have checks & balances.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

/in English, this means: "Does the ending of Watchmen need a giant squid?"
 
2013-12-27 02:46:47 PM
Gotta love the libs here bashing House Republicans for trying not to stop this when it is being carried out by the Democratic administration.

Besides they did try to defund it with the Amash amendment. Which was defeated. Dems voted to defund it 111-83 and Repubs voted 134-93 against it.

Face it, the parties are pretty split on this, and this is a case where your simplistic "Republicans bad, Democrats good" arguments don't work.

Slutter McGee
 
2013-12-27 02:47:39 PM

jakomo002: The Office of the President is a cherry-picked elite from either party who owes so many favours to those within government who helped him get elected that he dare not rock the boat.  The true top level dudes are NEVER going to let a guy through primaries unless they're 100% sure he'll "play ball" and not rock the boat.

He plays a role, like the fictional James Bond, but all he does is read the scripts.  He takes orders from the producers and director and "studio execs".


It would almost be comforting if the world worked this way, if there were some one or some cabal truly "in charge." But it doesn't. There's not. That's just fantasy. All the world's powers are just regular-ass people who end up in extraordinary places. Whether by parentage, money, dumb luck, or skill, however they got there, they're still just humans.
 
2013-12-27 02:49:07 PM

Serious Black: Starshines: This is a good thing.  The sooner there is a circuit split the sooner this issue goes to the Supreme Court.

/Thank God for Edward Snowden.

And the sooner we have SCOTUS rule the Fourth Amendment no longer exists.


Hey, at least it would be out in the open.  And maybe they'd even do the right thing.
 
2013-12-27 02:49:30 PM

Chummer45: Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.


I don't ignore that at all. I consider Bush to be WAY worse than Obama, and in fact, I can't stand the "both sides are bad" false equivalence BS.   With that said, Obama came into office promising to change a lot of the horrible policies / practices from the Bush administration.  Unfortunately, he has not lived up to those promises in a number of ways - his justice department has basically ignored widespread criminal fraud in the banking sector, and his foreign policy - while much, much better than Bush's foreign policy - is still being carried out in a manner that tramples on civil liberties.  From the extensive snooping on Americans and foreigners, to extrajudicial execution via drone strikes, to his failure to close Gitmo, he has continued a lot of bad policies that started with Bush.  I voted for Obama, but just because I voted for him doesn't mean I support everything he does.  In many ways he has been far too conservative.


Again, these are symptoms of a much bigger problem. The truth is that Obama has been a good President overall, given our current right-leaning political climate.

And you're also ascribing actions that Congress was supposed to take care of, like closing Gitmo.
 
2013-12-27 02:49:58 PM
libs be like: "it's bullshiat that the government wants to use 9/11 as a cover all but let's not reinvestigate it and instead take what the government said about 9/11 at face value cuz you're a conspiracy theorist if you want the truth!"
 
2013-12-27 02:50:12 PM

whidbey: 9/11 could have been handled way differently. Instead, it turned into an embarrassing dick-waving failure that cost this country trillions of dollars, dead soldiers, dead Afghanis and Iraqis, and set this country even lower in the eyes of the world.

You just can't admit that, can you? You can't take a look and understand why we are in the shiat we're in now.

To you, Obama is just another dude like Bush. He HAS to be.


I'm not the one pretending that Al Queada wasn't an international threat pre-9/11.  OF course, you yourself have faulted Bush for not stopping 9/11 when that memo "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" was given to Bush.  I suppose, if you had been in his shoes, you'd have taken the threat more seriously...especially given your understanding of Al Queada's lack of international ambitions.

I think anyone that automatically condemns Bush, or Obama, is acting without thought.  Someone who condemns one but not the other though, for the same or similar actions, is not just lacking thought, but may be incapable of it.
 
2013-12-27 02:51:30 PM
This will undoubtedly make is way top the SCOTUS in due time.
 
2013-12-27 02:51:52 PM

whidbey: I_C_Weener: whidbey: I_C_Weener: whidbey: RanDomino: whidbey
Or it's far more likely that he knows something we don't.

When evidence fails, there's always magical thinking to the rescue.

Actually the "evidence" suggests that Al Qaeda really are enemies now, thanks to Bush.

Keep ignoring that while you continue to post above and outside the ideology.

You are starting to sound a bit Truthy there.

Nope. Just telling it like it is. We hit the hornet's nest instead of opting for peaceful negotiation, and now it's escalated into something a lot worse.

Again, none of this is a stellar revelation. Thanks to Bush, Al Qaeda is a real international threat now.

So, are you saying that in his first 9 months of office, Bush enraged Al Queada so much that they flew airplanes into our buildings?  Or surely you are referring to the embassy bombings that took place before he took office in Kenya.  Or maybe you refer to the USS Cole bombing.  Seeing as how these were in 3 different countries, I'd call that international.  Of course that only counts the attacks on American interests.  I'm pretty sure their agenda over the years has included many different countries and their interests...even before Bush ran for president.

C'mon man.

9/11 could have been handled way differently. Instead, it turned into an embarrassing dick-waving failure that cost this country trillions of dollars, dead soldiers, dead Afghanis and Iraqis, and set this country even lower in the eyes of the world.

You just can't admit that, can you? You can't take a look and understand why we are in the shiat we're in now.

To you, Obama is just another dude like Bush. He HAS to be.



Look, obviously Obama is a HUGE improvement over the idiotic foreign policy of the Bush administration.  That said, there's plenty of legitimate criticism of Obama's foreign policy.  Just because Bush set the bar absurdely low doesn't mean we need to hold Obama to a lower standard.

Don't worry - I'm not defending the moronic right wing or the GOP.  My problem is that the GOP's role has been to pull the debate so far to the right that a lot of people tend to view any democratic president as "liberal," even if their actual policies are disturbingly conservative.
 
2013-12-27 02:51:59 PM

ToastTheRabbit: I think wat bothers me MOST is the fact that this "broad" surveillance really seems like the LEAST efficient way to accomplishing their goals.

If you have far more data than you could ever hope to sniff through.... why continue collecting shiat you will never be capable of vetting?

I am not a political guy... I have my booze, tv, steam account and enough money <just> to pay bills and rent... Typical compliant happy citizen... but even I say WTF?

Wouldnt a government need this type of collection if they were trying to spot signs of revolution in their people?


DING DING DING DING!

I can't help but think there's a team of shrinks who are watching and waiting to hit the PANIC button.

"Sire, the peasants are revolting."
"You're right. They stink on ice. PULL!"
 
2013-12-27 02:52:15 PM

slayer199: whidbey: Ah you're just above all this, aren't you?

I hate both parties and have voted 3rd party since '92.  I'm not necessarily above it, but I'm not blind to the failings of either party...unlike yourself.

There are a few farkers here that are ardent leftists, that have been extremely critical of Obama on a number of civil liberties issues...whereas you do nothing to defend, defend, defend...and failing defense, blame Bush (buh-buh-buh BUSH!).  I don't agree with them on most issues, but at least I could respect them for maintaining the integrity of their ideology irrespective of party politics.  You sir, have none of that.


Dude, if you can't see that Bush got us where we're at, then you're as good as someone fervently supporting his failed political administration.

And what's more, you totally ignore the many many accomplishments of the past 5 years. I don't care to agree with you. You have more in common with the social conservatives.
 
2013-12-27 02:52:36 PM

Prophet of Loss: Cold_Sassy: mudpants: Saw that one coming.

It was already here the moment the "Patriot Act" was signed into law.  Why did nobody realize it then?

"So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause." ―Padmé Amidala


i257.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-27 02:53:04 PM

Starshines: And maybe they'd even do the right thing.


AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

*gasp*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
 
2013-12-27 02:53:29 PM

whidbey: Chummer45: Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.


I don't ignore that at all. I consider Bush to be WAY worse than Obama, and in fact, I can't stand the "both sides are bad" false equivalence BS.   With that said, Obama came into office promising to change a lot of the horrible policies / practices from the Bush administration.  Unfortunately, he has not lived up to those promises in a number of ways - his justice department has basically ignored widespread criminal fraud in the banking sector, and his foreign policy - while much, much better than Bush's foreign policy - is still being carried out in a manner that tramples on civil liberties.  From the extensive snooping on Americans and foreigners, to extrajudicial execution via drone strikes, to his failure to close Gitmo, he has continued a lot of bad policies that started with Bush.  I voted for Obama, but just because I voted for him doesn't mean I support everything he does.  In many ways he has been far too conservative.

Again, these are symptoms of a much bigger problem. The truth is that Obama has been a good President overall, given our current right-leaning political climate.

And you're also ascribing actions that Congress was supposed to take care of, like closing Gitmo.



I agree with you.  But you can't pretend that Obama has nothing to do with this stuff.  Foreign policy is an area where the President has a LOT of discretion.
 
2013-12-27 02:54:25 PM

whidbey: Of course it was derpy. You have no alternatives. No 3rd party. Nothing. You'd do well to support the Democrats and condemn aggressive hardliner bullshiat like this.

But no, you'd rather divide the country and let the far right dominate it.


Aggressive hardliner bullshiat?  The de facto leader of the Democratic party President Obama stated:  "And I think it's important to note that in all the reviews of this program that have been done, in fact, there have not been actual instances where it's been alleged that the NSA in some ways acted inappropriately in the use of this data. But what is also clear is from the public debate, people are concerned about the prospect, the possibility of abuse. And I think that's what the judge in the district court suggested. And although his opinion obviously differs from rulings on the FISA Court, we're taking those into account. "

Which we know is a lie.  The NSA has shared intel with the DEA which has nothing to do with terrorism.

or

"This program, by the way, is fully overseen not just by Congress but by the FISA Court, a court specially put together to evaluate classified programs to make sure that the executive branch, or government generally, is not abusing them and that they're - it's being out consistent with the Constitution and rule of law. "

And we know FISA is nothing but a rubber stamp.

"The question we're going to have to ask is can we accomplish the same goals that this program is intended to accomplish in ways that give the public more confidence that in fact the NSA is doing what it's supposed to be doing. I have confidence in the fact that the NSA is not engaging in domestic surveillance or snooping around, but I also recognize that as technologies change and people can start running algorithms and programs that map out all the information that we're downloading on a daily basis into our telephones and our computers that we may have to refine this further to give people more confidence. And I'm going to be working very hard on doing that."

How about border control checkpoints well inside the border which have been expanded under Obama.

Who's the hardliner here?

So your position is there's only one alternative to the far right and that's the left.  Yeah, that's logical  It's that type of myopia that has left us with the crappy choices we have now.

No, I won't vote Democratic or Republican...I'll continue to vote 3rd party because I'll vote for what I believe is right as neither party gives a damn about the Constitution.

In the meantime, you can continue to blindly defend the Democratic party as being little better than the GOP on civil liberties.
 
2013-12-27 02:54:34 PM

Chummer45: Look, obviously Obama is a HUGE improvement over the idiotic foreign policy of the Bush administration.  That said, there's plenty of legitimate criticism of Obama's foreign policy.  Just because Bush set the bar absurdely low doesn't mean we need to hold Obama to a lower standard.

Don't worry - I'm not defending the moronic right wing or the GOP.  My problem is that the GOP's role has been to pull the debate so far to the right that a lot of people tend to view any democratic president as "liberal," even if their actual policies are disturbingly conservative.


I think this ruling is bullshiat. I do not believe the NSA should have this kind of power.

But again, I understand why we are at this juncture.

And honestly, we the people need to speak out against it. But so far, the loudest voices are the derpers who probably voted for those Bush-era policies.
 
2013-12-27 02:55:00 PM

blacksharpiemarker: [www.infowars.com image 482x360]


You're gonna have to explain how we're "losing liberty" when someone watches us do it but doesn't tell the cops...

Total number of convictions made against U.S. Citizens based on information provided by the NSA: 0.  It is illegal to use such information in a law enforcement setting.
 
2013-12-27 02:56:37 PM
If you have nothing to hide then why do you care?
 
2013-12-27 02:56:39 PM
If the NSA is really interested in how many times a month I order pizza or check my bank account balance, I don't really give a shiat.
 
2013-12-27 02:58:00 PM

slayer199: whidbey: Of course it was derpy. You have no alternatives. No 3rd party. Nothing. You'd do well to support the Democrats and condemn aggressive hardliner bullshiat like this.

But no, you'd rather divide the country and let the far right dominate it.

Aggressive hardliner bullshiat?  The de facto leader of the Democratic party President Obama stated:  "And I think it's important to note that in all the reviews of this program that have been done, in fact, there have not been actual instances where it's been alleged that the NSA in some ways acted inappropriately in the use of this data. But what is also clear is from the public debate, people are concerned about the prospect, the possibility of abuse. And I think that's what the judge in the district court suggested. And although his opinion obviously differs from rulings on the FISA Court, we're taking those into account. "

Which we know is a lie.  The NSA has shared intel with the DEA which has nothing to do with terrorism.

or

"This program, by the way, is fully overseen not just by Congress but by the FISA Court, a court specially put together to evaluate classified programs to make sure that the executive branch, or government generally, is not abusing them and that they're - it's being out consistent with the Constitution and rule of law. "

And we know FISA is nothing but a rubber stamp.


No we farking don't. It's due process. Deal with it.

Who's the hardliner here?

So your position is there's only one alternative to the far right and that's the left. Yeah, that's logical It's that type of myopia that has left us with the crappy choices we have now.


Obama isn't a "crappy choice." Again, you are totally ignoring 5 years of accomplishments. Get off your farking high horse.

And I believe I've given you enough bites for now.
 
2013-12-27 02:58:52 PM
img.fark.net
 
2013-12-27 02:59:00 PM

quansem: /Speaking of dirt, it looks like Chinese dirt has all the rare earths in it. Interesting times..


'Rare earths' is a misnomer nowadays; they're found all over the place but China undercut everyone else and drove them out of business or convinced them to move operations to China.
 
2013-12-27 02:59:25 PM

whidbey: slayer199: whidbey: Ah you're just above all this, aren't you?

I hate both parties and have voted 3rd party since '92.  I'm not necessarily above it, but I'm not blind to the failings of either party...unlike yourself.

There are a few farkers here that are ardent leftists, that have been extremely critical of Obama on a number of civil liberties issues...whereas you do nothing to defend, defend, defend...and failing defense, blame Bush (buh-buh-buh BUSH!).  I don't agree with them on most issues, but at least I could respect them for maintaining the integrity of their ideology irrespective of party politics.  You sir, have none of that.

Dude, if you can't see that Bush got us where we're at, then you're as good as someone fervently supporting his failed political administration.

And what's more, you totally ignore the many many accomplishments of the past 5 years. I don't care to agree with you. You have more in common with the social conservatives.


Every time I see you in a thread I add another "[insert subject here] can do no wrong" to your favorite list. Surprising it took this long to get a president up there.

As a politically left-leaning individual, I find that folks like you are a huge part of the political problem in this country.
 
2013-12-27 03:00:19 PM

Chummer45: I agree with you.  But you can't pretend that Obama has nothing to do with this stuff.  Foreign policy is an area where the President has a LOT of discretion.


Unless that President is also a hardliner, I don't think there is that kind of discretion anymore. Especially for someone like Obama who has been already considered someone who went on record criticizing Bush policy.

That's what's scary, and that's why our aggressive military actions are a symptom of a much bigger problem.
 
2013-12-27 03:01:38 PM

whidbey: slayer199: whidbey: Ah you're just above all this, aren't you?

I hate both parties and have voted 3rd party since '92.  I'm not necessarily above it, but I'm not blind to the failings of either party...unlike yourself.

There are a few farkers here that are ardent leftists, that have been extremely critical of Obama on a number of civil liberties issues...whereas you do nothing to defend, defend, defend...and failing defense, blame Bush (buh-buh-buh BUSH!).  I don't agree with them on most issues, but at least I could respect them for maintaining the integrity of their ideology irrespective of party politics.  You sir, have none of that.

Dude, if you can't see that Bush got us where we're at, then you're as good as someone fervently supporting his failed political administration.

And what's more, you totally ignore the many many accomplishments of the past 5 years. I don't care to agree with you. You have more in common with the social conservatives.


I'm not going to defend Bush as he was horrible.  Yes, he started it.  The Democrats swept Congress and the Presidency as a direct repudiation of Bush's policies.   Apparently, you like to conveniently ignore that the Democratic party had control of the House, Senate and Presidency and could have done something to reign in the power of the NSA, but passed the ACA instead.   Your Buh-buh-buh Bush is getting old and really can't be defended any longer.

What has Obama specifically done for gay marriage?  Marijuana?  The states and courts have been more active in dealing with that (in fact, prior to Colorado and Washington legalizing pot, the DEA had raided more medical marijuana facilities in 4 years under Obama than 8 years of Bush).  When Colorado and Washington legalized pot (basically telling the Fed FU), then Obama said he wouldn't interfere.
 
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