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(WTOP) NewsFlash Federal judge rules that the NSA can spy on you all it wants, because shut up and watch Duck Dynasty, that's why   (wtop.com) divider line 552
    More: NewsFlash, NSA, federal judges, phone surveillance  
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14858 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Dec 2013 at 12:59 PM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-12-27 01:37:25 PM

snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

You're expecting us to buy into the theory that Obama is powerless, and a victim of conversatives?  If you truly, honestly believe that,, then you're dumber than I would have thought.  I mean, i know liberals are by definition very weak-minded and easily conned, but geez, this takes it to a new level of retardation.


Uh.... yeah Obama does a lot of stuff that is BS that I disagree with.  And you can make the same points about all the suddenly born-again "libertarians" who suddenly started caring about this stuff when Obama got elected.

Here's an idea - how about we stop framing every policy issue as "oh yeah? Well my guy is better than / not as bad as your guy!"

There is plenty of bad policy that was started by Bush and now is being continued by Obama.  Arguing about who had a crappier record is pointless and doesn't resolve anything.

It is the same record, played over and over, actually.
Different faces and names. Even different colors for your amusement.
Makes no difference.
Wonder why?



Seriously - all the dumb, tribal, "my guy is better than your guy" crap just distracts everyone from the actual issues, and ensures that politicians aren't held accountable.
 
2013-12-27 01:38:32 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: Or, in other words, fark your right to privacy, and fark your right not to have non warrant wire tapping done to your phone. What's next? Warrentless searches of my car? My home? Arrests without probable cause? Jail terms without due process and legal representation?

/welcome to the new world, where the terrorists have won, and we not only bend over to suck their dicks, but we give up our rights as well


All of that shiat already goes on, and has been going on. Judges also fail to throw cases out of court as often as they should, because too many of them appear to think like this guy in the article. One should also be aware that in the current American legal system, de facto, the presumption of innocence does not exist, unless you can afford the sort of legal team OJ had at his murder trial. These are some of the ways that we've become the people with the highest rate of incarceration in the history of the world.
 
2013-12-27 01:38:39 PM

whidbey: You should have listened to your mother.


Hey, I still put my name on my underwear.
 
2013-12-27 01:38:59 PM
Meanwhile another judge ruled that the warrants granted to get the records are likely not constitutional. That case is actually a lot more interesting than this case.
 
2013-12-27 01:39:04 PM

Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

You're expecting us to buy into the theory that Obama is powerless, and a victim of conversatives?  If you truly, honestly believe that,, then you're dumber than I would have thought.  I mean, i know liberals are by definition very weak-minded and easily conned, but geez, this takes it to a new level of retardation.


Uh.... yeah Obama does a lot of stuff that is BS that I disagree with.  And you can make the same points about all the suddenly born-again "libertarians" who suddenly started caring about this stuff when Obama got elected.

Here's an idea - how about we stop framing every policy issue as "oh yeah? Well my guy is better than / not as bad as your guy!"

There is plenty of bad policy that was started by Bush and now is being continued by Obama.  Arguing about who had a crappier record is pointless and doesn't resolve anything.

It is the same record, played over and over, actually.
Different faces and names. Even different colors for your amusement.
Makes no difference.
Wonder why?


Seriously - all the dumb, tribal, "my guy is better than your guy" crap just distracts everyone from the actual issues, and ensures that politicians aren't held accountable.


Divide and Conquer

so simple
 
2013-12-27 01:39:46 PM

Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

You're expecting us to buy into the theory that Obama is powerless, and a victim of conversatives?  If you truly, honestly believe that,, then you're dumber than I would have thought.  I mean, i know liberals are by definition very weak-minded and easily conned, but geez, this takes it to a new level of retardation.


Uh.... yeah Obama does a lot of stuff that is BS that I disagree with.  And you can make the same points about all the suddenly born-again "libertarians" who suddenly started caring about this stuff when Obama got elected.

Here's an idea - how about we stop framing every policy issue as "oh yeah? Well my guy is better than / not as bad as your guy!"

There is plenty of bad policy that was started by Bush and now is being continued by Obama.  Arguing about who had a crappier record is pointless and doesn't resolve anything.

It is the same record, played over and over, actually.
Different faces and names. Even different colors for your amusement.
Makes no difference.
Wonder why?


Seriously - all the dumb, tribal, "my guy is better than your guy" crap just distracts everyone from the actual issues, and ensures that politicians aren't held accountable.


Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.
 
2013-12-27 01:40:09 PM
Is that judge trolling us all?
 
2013-12-27 01:40:37 PM

Nabb1: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP


Unfortunately, that is not a legitimate refuting of a valid point.  Though it does accurately represent the contents of most liberals' brains on this (and many) topics.

Obama has been in office for almost 5 years now, and he's still not responsible for anything that's taking place or going wrong, amirite?  You expect us to believe that he's not complicit with the NSA spying programs, even if he didn't initiate them?  Nothing scandalous sticks to the guy, because HURRDY HURRDY DERP media and butthurt liberals who are still in 'b-b-b-but George W Bush omg' mode.

You're expecting us to buy into the theory that Obama is powerless, and a victim of conversatives?  If you truly, honestly believe that,, then you're dumber than I would have thought.  I mean, i know liberals are by definition very weak-minded and easily conned, but geez, this takes it to a new level of retardation.

When the problems derived from President Bush's agenda stop happening, I will stop assigning blame to his administration.

Just because a new CEO is in charge of the factory, doesn't mean that the machines (which were neglected to boost production for the last 20 quarters) magically reset themselves to brand new condition. Sometimes, crap takes time to fix.

Just who do you think is defending the government's case in court right now? John Ashcroft? You can live in denial all you want, I guess.


Actually, you're completely right. The failure of the Obama administration to oppose these actions is completely undefendable. He should be tried as an accomplice to domestic sedition along with President Bush.
 
2013-12-27 01:41:26 PM

WhyteRaven74: Meanwhile another judge ruled that the warrants granted to get the records are likely not constitutional. That case is actually a lot more interesting than this case.


But of course, subby doesn't want us to talk about that. This ruling is just too convenient for the Obama hating contingency.
 
2013-12-27 01:41:33 PM

whidbey: Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

You're expecting us to buy into the theory that Obama is powerless, and a victim of conversatives?  If you truly, honestly believe that,, then you're dumber than I would have thought.  I mean, i know liberals are by definition very weak-minded and easily conned, but geez, this takes it to a new level of retardation.


Uh.... yeah Obama does a lot of stuff that is BS that I disagree with.  And you can make the same points about all the suddenly born-again "libertarians" who suddenly started caring about this stuff when Obama got elected.

Here's an idea - how about we stop framing every policy issue as "oh yeah? Well my guy is better than / not as bad as your guy!"

There is plenty of bad policy that was started by Bush and now is being continued by Obama.  Arguing about who had a crappier record is pointless and doesn't resolve anything.

It is the same record, played over and over, actually.
Different faces and names. Even different colors for your amusement.
Makes no difference.
Wonder why?


Seriously - all the dumb, tribal, "my guy is better than your guy" crap just distracts everyone from the actual issues, and ensures that politicians aren't held accountable.

Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.


Japanese have a proverb: "Fix the problem, not the blame."

Actually, I have no idea if that is their proverb or not.  But Sean Connery did say it in "Rising Sun" and he was an honorary ninja from his days as 007.
 
2013-12-27 01:43:12 PM

I_C_Weener: Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.

Japanese have a proverb: "Fix the problem, not the blame."

Actually, I have no idea if that is their proverb or not.  But Sean Connery did say it in "Rising Sun" and he was an honorary ninja from his days as 007.


We're well aware of the problem. But you can't even admit to yourself why we're in this mess. It has to be Obama's fault.
 
2013-12-27 01:43:54 PM
Face it, the American people WANT to be spied on. The only way to fix that is to make the US a pariah state. Stop buying things from us. Stop visiting. The people with the real power here (the people with money) will make things improve.
 
2013-12-27 01:44:10 PM

whidbey: Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.


That makes some sort of sense?
Somewhere there is this little bell chiming, "two wrongs just prove the idiot", or fool me shame for once, or,,,
 
2013-12-27 01:44:23 PM
Isn't this federal agency supposed to be answerable to someone kinda higher up, like maybe in the executive branch?
 
2013-12-27 01:44:27 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: "It cannot possibly be that lawbreaking conduct by a government contractor that reveals state secrets -- including the means and methods of intelligence gathering -- could frustrate Congress's intent. To hold otherwise would spawn mischief," he wrote.Uh, this argument can be used against any and all whistleblowing. And this asshole sits on the federal judiciary (appointed by Clinton).


Pauley is a tool and further proof that Duke sucks!
 
2013-12-27 01:45:06 PM

snocone: whidbey: Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.

That makes some sort of sense?
Somewhere there is this little bell chiming, "two wrongs just prove the idiot", or fool me shame for once, or,,,


Or "Bush actually got us into this mess and that's why we're doing this shiat."

The one combination you just won't consider.
 
2013-12-27 01:45:35 PM
This news makes my balls itch.
 
2013-12-27 01:45:39 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Nabb1: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP


Unfortunately, that is not a legitimate refuting of a valid point.  Though it does accurately represent the contents of most liberals' brains on this (and many) topics.

Obama has been in office for almost 5 years now, and he's still not responsible for anything that's taking place or going wrong, amirite?  You expect us to believe that he's not complicit with the NSA spying programs, even if he didn't initiate them?  Nothing scandalous sticks to the guy, because HURRDY HURRDY DERP media and butthurt liberals who are still in 'b-b-b-but George W Bush omg' mode.

You're expecting us to buy into the theory that Obama is powerless, and a victim of conversatives?  If you truly, honestly believe that,, then you're dumber than I would have thought.  I mean, i know liberals are by definition very weak-minded and easily conned, but geez, this takes it to a new level of retardation.

When the problems derived from President Bush's agenda stop happening, I will stop assigning blame to his administration.

Just because a new CEO is in charge of the factory, doesn't mean that the machines (which were neglected to boost production for the last 20 quarters) magically reset themselves to brand new condition. Sometimes, crap takes time to fix.

Just who do you think is defending the government's case in court right now? John Ashcroft? You can live in denial all you want, I guess.

Actually, you're completely right. The failure of the Obama administration to oppose these actions is completely undefendable. He should be tried as an accomplice to domestic sedition along with President Bush.


Can we first do the War Crimes?
Please.
 
2013-12-27 01:45:51 PM
it would be interesting to know just how many american lives the NSA is saving everyday with this unfettered access.

we do know for a fact that all this data leads to dead innocent civilians, thousands of miles away, who are no threat to the US, except as examples of how callous and unfair the US administration and corporate war machine is to foreigners.

so inasmuch as the data stream appears to be an abject failure (if accuracy is any measure) when it comes to targeting enemies, how effective can it possibly be at stopping terrorism here? big secret, apparently.
 
2013-12-27 01:46:25 PM

whidbey: snocone: whidbey: Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.

That makes some sort of sense?
Somewhere there is this little bell chiming, "two wrongs just prove the idiot", or fool me shame for once, or,,,

Or "Bush actually got us into this mess and that's why we're doing this shiat."

The one combination you just won't consider.


And bush hasn't been in office for almost five years. Five years.

Five years.
 
2013-12-27 01:46:30 PM

browntimmy: Well, the terrorists hate us for our freedom, right? So if we give it all up, problem solved.



I know a guy who was in the US Special forces in Afghanistan. Sometimes he had to shoot the Taliban and other affiliated Afghanis who were doing bad stuff, other times he sat and talked with them trying to negotiate peace.

I one time said that, among other reasons, they hated us for our freedom and he pretty much tore me a new asshole. Apparently, they have a lot of reasons to hate us, but enjoying our personal freedoms in the comfort of our affluent first world nation on the other side of the world isn't one of them. A long history of us killing folks throughout the Arab world, destabilizing/toppling their governments we don't like and generally being arrogant pricks who care only about what resources we can buy no matter what the cost in human lives and misery will be - and not even our own principles - is what really pisses them off. If we hadn't mucked about with their country and their neighbors as well they wouldn't be inclined to give a fark about us at all.

I did get him to agree that the freedoms that define the values of our culture do play some small part in why "they" hate us, but he is certain that it's a small part and indirect. Basically, in that we could never just stand idly by while they slaughter their own people with impugnity and turn women in to essentially livestock... Our values and freedoms make it inevitable for our cultures to clash in some way over things like that. But if we kept to ourselves and didn't muddle about in the affairs of pretty much every majority Islamic country apparently they really wouldn't give two shiats about us enjoying our freedoms back at home. Our freedoms were basically a slightly amusing curiousity to them and that's about it.
 
2013-12-27 01:46:59 PM

whidbey: snocone: whidbey: Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.

That makes some sort of sense?
Somewhere there is this little bell chiming, "two wrongs just prove the idiot", or fool me shame for once, or,,,

Or "Bush actually got us into this mess and that's why we're doing this shiat."

The one combination you just won't consider.


Small minds, short memories.
This goes way back, far past the last two stooges in Presidential Drag.
 
2013-12-27 01:47:04 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: It will go to SCOTUS and get squashed. There is no way, no way that you can say that tracking everyones phone records is "a national defense" Its a violation of our rights to privacy, and that is it. Agreeing with this stupid ass ruling is like saying that "some guy in a brown house was a terrorist, so we have to search all brown houses without warrants" Because derp.

/What the hell has happened in this country that we have become so pussified that we are willing to give up our individual rights? It's been proven that the government will time and time again take away your "rights" when it suits their political end. Look at WW2, the japanese americans were thrown in jail for just being japanese. They had 0 rights, just "right this way!: Into the internment camps. Look at black civil rights, slavery, look at womans suffrage. I have news for you...you don't have "god given rights" you have rights given by the government, and if they can take them away at will, they aren't rights, they are "privileges". Your home is no longer your castle, they can make you sell it to serve the greater good "eminent domain" they have "border checkpoints" where they unlawfully make you state if you are a citizen or not, there are cities that do "stop and frisk" with no other reason that they can be "suspect" of you, whatever that means. I guess it means if you are black or hispanic. Its a sad day in America when a FEDERAL judge says that the right to privacy is outweighed by "the war on terror".

/gets a drink.


Devil's advocate: If there are automated systems to store the data and no person actually accesses any individual's specific data without a warrant or reasonable suspicion or whatever the standard is, are your rights really violated? I'm sure there's precedent on this. I honestly don't know what the answer is. Complicating the matter is the question of who owns the data. Does it belong to the citizen, the communications provider, both? Does one of these parties have the right to share it without the other's consent?
 
2013-12-27 01:47:14 PM

WhyteRaven74: Meanwhile another judge ruled that the warrants granted to get the records are likely not constitutional. That case is actually a lot more interesting than this case.


you remind me of someone I knew back in michigan. Went by the name Expy
 
2013-12-27 01:47:24 PM

indarwinsshadow: I was all prepped to make fun of America...and then thought "hey. That's not funny in the slightest. What happened to democracy, freedom of the press and association and the right to privacy". My apologies to American farkers for my sh*tty first attitude. I don't think what's happened is good in the slightest. My country is going through a similar situation were Adolf Harper thinks it's ok that everyone's business is the gov't and we have very very little input on how we want our country to run. Looks like it's a North American thing. How did we let ourselves get here, and is it possible to wrestle our rights back?


Kill the internet, get into the streets.
 
2013-12-27 01:48:09 PM

duffblue: whidbey: snocone: whidbey: Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.

That makes some sort of sense?
Somewhere there is this little bell chiming, "two wrongs just prove the idiot", or fool me shame for once, or,,,

Or "Bush actually got us into this mess and that's why we're doing this shiat."

The one combination you just won't consider.

And bush hasn't been in office for almost five years. Five years.

Five years.


Try 50 years, ya peabrains.
Sorry, 'bout that.

Get On and Stay On Target.
 
2013-12-27 01:48:35 PM

I_C_Weener: whidbey: Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

You're expecting us to buy into the theory that Obama is powerless, and a victim of conversatives?  If you truly, honestly believe that,, then you're dumber than I would have thought.  I mean, i know liberals are by definition very weak-minded and easily conned, but geez, this takes it to a new level of retardation.


Uh.... yeah Obama does a lot of stuff that is BS that I disagree with.  And you can make the same points about all the suddenly born-again "libertarians" who suddenly started caring about this stuff when Obama got elected.

Here's an idea - how about we stop framing every policy issue as "oh yeah? Well my guy is better than / not as bad as your guy!"

There is plenty of bad policy that was started by Bush and now is being continued by Obama.  Arguing about who had a crappier record is pointless and doesn't resolve anything.

It is the same record, played over and over, actually.
Different faces and names. Even different colors for your amusement.
Makes no difference.
Wonder why?


Seriously - all the dumb, tribal, "my guy is better than your guy" crap just distracts everyone from the actual issues, and ensures that politicians aren't held accountable.

Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.

Japanese have a proverb: "Fix the problem, not the blame."

Actually, I have no idea if that is their proverb or not.  But Sean Connery did say it in "Rising Sun" and he was an honorary ninja from his days as 007.


Actually that was kind of funny. Sorry I gave you both barrels. Thought you were someone else.

This disconnect does irritate me though, obviously.
 
2013-12-27 01:48:50 PM

whidbey: I_C_Weener: Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.

Japanese have a proverb: "Fix the problem, not the blame."

Actually, I have no idea if that is their proverb or not.  But Sean Connery did say it in "Rising Sun" and he was an honorary ninja from his days as 007.

We're well aware of the problem. But you can't even admit to yourself why we're in this mess. It has to be Obama's fault.


No.  Its Bush's, along with Congress.  Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

If bringing Bush back to President would solve it, I guess we could do that.  Or, maybe, just maybe we can use the guy who got elected (partially) on the promise that he'd reverse this trend.  But, I'll blame Bush if that is what it takes for you to admit that Obama don't care about domestic surveillance.
 
2013-12-27 01:48:54 PM

DreamSnipers: My mistake, I thought a judge would know there is a fourth amendment to the constitution.


Telephone metadata has not been considered to be under Fourth Amendment protection since 1979's Smith v. Maryland.
 
2013-12-27 01:49:13 PM

fluffy2097: Sure will be fun when we can submit Freedom of Information Act to get the audio records of politicians phone calls.

/Until the NSA produces audio proof of a senator's sorted relationship with an underage boy, this will continue.
//One Senator made out to be the pedophile he is, and the NSA will be forced by congress to stop surveillance.


Or even worse, a sordid relationship.
 
2013-12-27 01:49:56 PM

duffblue: whidbey: snocone: whidbey: Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.

That makes some sort of sense?
Somewhere there is this little bell chiming, "two wrongs just prove the idiot", or fool me shame for once, or,,,

Or "Bush actually got us into this mess and that's why we're doing this shiat."

The one combination you just won't consider.

And bush hasn't been in office for almost five years. Five years.

Five years.


What does that have to do with the fact that Obama is still cleaning up his f*ckups?

You really can't put the history together, can you? Can't or won't?
 
2013-12-27 01:50:02 PM

whither_apophis: Sure but if I start a blog called "What is U.S. District Judge William Pauley doing?" and follow him around and live tweet his day, I'll get arrested.



That is correct, and if I make a video with my phone of you getting arrested I'll get arrested too.
 
2013-12-27 01:50:02 PM

lohphat: cgraves67: If this goes before the SCOTUS, would it imperil the whole Patriot Act?

Not with the current fear-mongering conservative majority bench.


You are a farking moron and a tool if you think this NSA snooping is a partisan liberal/conservative thing. I could just as easily claim it to be the fault of big-government liberals (and be equally moronic in my claim).
 
2013-12-27 01:50:37 PM
What if I were to tell you that: The Chump o the 4Years(Mr. President) is just a play actor for your distraction?
 
2013-12-27 01:51:10 PM

I_C_Weener: Obama don't care about domestic surveillance.


of white people
 
2013-12-27 01:51:24 PM

stabby13: fluffy2097: Sure will be fun when we can submit Freedom of Information Act to get the audio records of politicians phone calls.

/Until the NSA produces audio proof of a senator's sorted relationship with an underage boy, this will continue.
//One Senator made out to be the pedophile he is, and the NSA will be forced by congress to stop surveillance.

Or even worse, a sordid relationship.


Or worse yet, we may see more of Anthony Wiener's txt messages
 
2013-12-27 01:52:01 PM

whidbey: I_C_Weener: whidbey: Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

You're expecting us to buy into the theory that Obama is powerless, and a victim of conversatives?  If you truly, honestly believe that,, then you're dumber than I would have thought.  I mean, i know liberals are by definition very weak-minded and easily conned, but geez, this takes it to a new level of retardation.


Uh.... yeah Obama does a lot of stuff that is BS that I disagree with.  And you can make the same points about all the suddenly born-again "libertarians" who suddenly started caring about this stuff when Obama got elected.

Here's an idea - how about we stop framing every policy issue as "oh yeah? Well my guy is better than / not as bad as your guy!"

There is plenty of bad policy that was started by Bush and now is being continued by Obama.  Arguing about who had a crappier record is pointless and doesn't resolve anything.

It is the same record, played over and over, actually.
Different faces and names. Even different colors for your amusement.
Makes no difference.
Wonder why?


Seriously - all the dumb, tribal, "my guy is better than your guy" crap just distracts everyone from the actual issues, and ensures that politicians aren't held accountable.

Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.

Japanese have a proverb: "Fix the problem, not the blame."

Actually, I have no idea if that is their proverb or not.  But Sean Connery did say it in "Rising Sun" and he was an honorary ninja from his days as 007.

Actually that was kind of funny. Sorry I gave you both barrels. Thought you were someone else.

This disconnect does irritate me though, obviously.


Uh...ignore my follow up comment.  Clearly I was wrong and I apologize unreservedly.  I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, and was in no way fair comment, and was motivated purely by malice, and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you, or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.
 
2013-12-27 01:52:16 PM
The terrorists have won
 
2013-12-27 01:52:21 PM

I_C_Weener: whidbey: I_C_Weener: Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.

Japanese have a proverb: "Fix the problem, not the blame."

Actually, I have no idea if that is their proverb or not.  But Sean Connery did say it in "Rising Sun" and he was an honorary ninja from his days as 007.

We're well aware of the problem. But you can't even admit to yourself why we're in this mess. It has to be Obama's fault.

No.  Its Bush's, along with Congress.  Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

If bringing Bush back to President would solve it, I guess we could do that.  Or, maybe, just maybe we can use the guy who got elected (partially) on the promise that he'd reverse this trend.  But, I'll blame Bush if that is what it takes for you to admit that Obama don't care about domestic surveillance.


I wonder if he would.

In this ultrapartisan age no one can be seen agreeing with the enemy.
 
2013-12-27 01:52:41 PM

I_C_Weener: But, I'll blame Bush if that is what it takes for you to admit that Obama don't care about domestic surveillance.


From what I can tell, he's not happy about it, but we are in a position where it's become necessary.

To me, that means that we now have real enemies because of the policies of the past 10 years.

I think it sucks that we're still doing the war machine, but Obama is not a dictator, and he's also not one to just stop the car on a dime. We're stuck with this shiat because of what the hardliners wanted.
 
2013-12-27 01:54:07 PM

I_C_Weener: Uh...ignore my follow up comment.  Clearly I was wrong and I apologize unreservedly.  I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, and was in no way fair comment, and was motivated purely by malice, and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you, or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.


You can take the lawyer out of the trailerpark, but....
 
2013-12-27 01:55:12 PM

whidbey: I_C_Weener: But, I'll blame Bush if that is what it takes for you to admit that Obama don't care about domestic surveillance.

From what I can tell, he's not happy about it, but we are in a position where it's become necessary.

To me, that means that we now have real enemies because of the policies of the past 10 years.

I think it sucks that we're still doing the war machine, but Obama is not a dictator, and he's also not one to just stop the car on a dime. We're stuck with this shiat because of what the hardliners wanted.


So, that sounds like you endorse the government surveillance.  Regardless of if we needed it then, or now, for some measure of protection, it is wrong.
 
2013-12-27 01:55:59 PM

whidbey: From what I can tell, he's not happy about it, but we are in a position where it's become necessary.

To me, that means that we now have real enemies because of the policies of the past 10 years.


turnip truckian like typing detected.
 
2013-12-27 01:56:14 PM
whidbey
We're well aware of the problem. But you can't even admit to yourself why we're in this mess. It has to be Obama's fault.

It's the spectral voice of Bush whispering in Obama's ear, telling him to say how awesome this is and to do nothing to curtail it.
 
2013-12-27 01:57:00 PM

Popular Opinion: it would be interesting to know just how many american lives the NSA is saving everyday with this unfettered access.

we do know for a fact that all this data leads to dead innocent civilians, thousands of miles away, who are no threat to the US, except as examples of how callous and unfair the US administration and corporate war machine is to foreigners.


As if most Americans think about or care how their government acts on their behalf(as long as it happens to other people and far away)
 
2013-12-27 01:57:52 PM

whidbey: I_C_Weener: Uh...ignore my follow up comment.  Clearly I was wrong and I apologize unreservedly.  I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, and was in no way fair comment, and was motivated purely by malice, and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you, or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

You can take the lawyer out of the trailerpark, but....


I love that quote from Archie in Fish Called Wanda.
 
2013-12-27 01:57:59 PM

whidbey: duffblue: whidbey: snocone: whidbey: Chummer45: snocone: Chummer45: Phineas: whidbey: HURRDY HURRDY DERP DERP DERP DERP

Hey, Bush got us here with his fake intelligence and insistence on attacking Afghanistan and legitimizing Al Qaeda.

You "both sides are bad" types LOVE ignoring that.

That makes some sort of sense?
Somewhere there is this little bell chiming, "two wrongs just prove the idiot", or fool me shame for once, or,,,

Or "Bush actually got us into this mess and that's why we're doing this shiat."

The one combination you just won't consider.

And bush hasn't been in office for almost five years. Five years.

Five years.

What does that have to do with the fact that Obama is still cleaning up his f*ckups?

You really can't put the history together, can you? Can't or won't?


Is that why the Obama Administration is vigorously defending these policies in court? Come on. We can all blame Bush for putting is on this road, but Obama is keeping us on it.
 
2013-12-27 01:58:17 PM

I_C_Weener: whidbey: I_C_Weener: But, I'll blame Bush if that is what it takes for you to admit that Obama don't care about domestic surveillance.

From what I can tell, he's not happy about it, but we are in a position where it's become necessary.

To me, that means that we now have real enemies because of the policies of the past 10 years.

I think it sucks that we're still doing the war machine, but Obama is not a dictator, and he's also not one to just stop the car on a dime. We're stuck with this shiat because of what the hardliners wanted.

So, that sounds like you endorse the government surveillance.  Regardless of if we needed it then, or now, for some measure of protection, it is wrong.


No, I think it's total bullshiat that we're stepping it up., it is wrong, but I also understand why it's happening.

Obama has done some very laudable things in his Presidency, but I really don't expect him to play some trump card that shuts down the operations, especially given the history of the past 10 years.

He's just driving the car.
 
2013-12-27 01:58:17 PM
It has been a given since the inception of serious SIGINT in the `50's.  Attempts to misuse? Can you say RMN? (though he worked the IRS much harder)  Church Committee in the mid `70's pretty much laid out what the NSA had been doing - intercepting millions of telegrams via Western Union - with `plausible deniability' on the parts of the Western Union Execs, i.e., `we didn't know' (even though the `collection' was performed weekly by a NSA courier and a low level WU dweeb).  And, of course, MaBell (all your landlines are belong to us-and friends)..     https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent - csi/vol43no3/pdf/v43i3a04p.pdf    And it wasn't just `metadata'.

If one wishes to worry about an actual impact on one's own life owing to `big data', concern should be focused on private collection entities.  Interesting hearing, recently on just this before the Senate Commerce Committee:   http://www.c-spanvideo.org/event/229200

The Chairman, Senator Rockefeller, tried to `sum up' the testimony:

"Since before 9/11 I've been on the Intelligence Committee and. every day, I wake up to 7 newspapers with nothing but NSA headlines.  And, I'm here to tell you, as one of the authors of FISA the Patriot Act and all the rest of it, that the NSA is so secure in its protection of privacy as compared to this group that we are talking to, these data brokers, it's not even close.  This affects, as was pointed out, anybody, everybody.  Who knows?  NSA knows,  They are only likely to interact at a .000001 percent of people that they conclude need further observation.  This is everybody, anybody, but more than that divided into race, economic activities, education, and there's something -  I can't prove it is wrong - but there's something lethal about it..."

Sure, NSA could be `shrunk' - The Gov. could then rely on the private brokers who are busy cataloging every individual's digital tailings and, for whom, FISA is fiddlesticks.
We're all available to be `dry gulched' into some correlative inevitability or other, and will probably ride right into it smiling - done in by predictive analytics rather than a 45.70.
 
2013-12-27 01:59:50 PM

BMulligan: Collecting metadata raises no significant Fourth Amendment issues and is, as far as I know, completely lawful. Accessing the actual content of communications is a completely different thing, and should always require a warrant.


BINGO.

How far are we? Roughly 150 posts and you're the first person to accurately understand the situation.

This isn't even a partisan issue. There's idiots on both sides of the aisle that are literally too stupid to comprehend this. I just wish they were less vocal about their technological retardation.

You get favorited now.
 
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