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(Independent Journal Review)   Asking voters to show identification is not racist, and it's not about voter suppression; It's about proving your ability to vote in a manner similar to how one validates his or her identity in the private sector   (ijreview.com) divider line 216
    More: Obvious, voter suppression, Ohio, Democrats, Ohio Secretary of State, voter ID, chess matches  
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1308 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Dec 2013 at 11:13 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



216 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-27 09:52:53 AM  
The PA House Majority Leader explained the motivation behind Voter ID much more succinctly and accurately:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8
 
2013-12-27 09:55:24 AM  
...as long as the state takes steps to ensure that the ID is available with absolute de minimus cost and effort -- which none of the states in question that are proposing ID laws do.
 
2013-12-27 09:55:53 AM  
Fark you, Subby,.  Let's see what else some of these states are doing....

Eliminate pre-registration for 16- and 17-year-olds, who currently can register to vote before they turn 18.
Outlaw paid voter registration drives.
Eliminate straight-ticket voting.
Eliminate provisional voting if someone shows up at the wrong precinct.
Prohibit counties from extending poll hours by one hour on Election Day in extraordinary circumstances, such as in response to long lines.
Allow any registered voter of a county to challenge the eligibility of a voter rather than just a voter of the precinct in which the suspect voter is registered.
Study electronic filing for campaign returns.
Increase the maximum allowed campaign contribution per election from $4,000 to $5,000.
Loosen disclosure requirements in campaign ads paid for by independent committees.
Repeal the publicly funded election program for appellate court judges.
Repeal the requirement that candidates endorse ads run by their campaigns.
 
2013-12-27 09:57:52 AM  
I can't even tell you the last time someone asked me for ID when using my credit card. Hmmm.... then again I am not a minority.
 
2013-12-27 10:15:45 AM  
Umm....

Let's say for argument's sake that there's a difference between intent and effect.

As for intent:  I think the push by conservatives and citations like  Mr. Coffee Nerves' show that there is strong intent to discriminate and suppress.

As for effect:  The demographics that are effectively blocked from voting or are required to pay to vote constitutes discrimination and suppression.
 
2013-12-27 10:16:02 AM  
I honestly can't tell if that article is being sarcastic. Is it?
 
2013-12-27 10:21:30 AM  
Serious question. In Virginia, a state included in the Civil Rights Act, I've always had to show a photo ID to vote. This is going back to the early 90s. How is it that another state doing the same thing is racist?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-27 10:22:07 AM  

lockers: I can't even tell you the last time someone asked me for ID when using my credit card. Hmmm.... then again I am not a minority.


I can't remember a time when it was mandatory to show ID in the private sector at all.

Besides, the whole thing is a straw man to divert attention from the aspects of the "Voter ID laws" that are about vote suppression.
 
2013-12-27 10:27:19 AM  

foo monkey: Serious question. In Virginia, a state included in the Civil Rights Act, I've always had to show a photo ID to vote. This is going back to the early 90s. How is it that another state doing the same thing is racist?



No, you haven't "had to show photo ID to vote." You've chosen to show photo ID, which is entirely different.

Link


Acceptable forms of identification for in-person voting include the following:

Virginia voter registration card

Valid Virginia driver's license

Military ID

Any Federal, Virginia state or local government-issued ID

Employer issued photo ID card

Concealed handgun permit

Valid student ID issued by any institution of higher education located in the Commonwealth of Virginia

Current utility bill, bank statement, government check or paycheck indicating the name and address of the voter

Social Security card (*please note the social security card does not satisfy special federal ID requirements)

A voter who does not bring an acceptable ID to the polls will be offered a provisional ballot.
 
2013-12-27 10:28:01 AM  

foo monkey: Serious question. In Virginia, a state included in the Civil Rights Act, I've always had to show a photo ID to vote. This is going back to the early 90s. How is it that another state doing the same thing is racist?


Serious answer: You've never had to show a photo ID to vote. You've been asked for one, and you've shown it, but if you didn't have it there are numerous other forms of ID, many non-photo, that are also acceptable. And if you can't produce that, they'll give you a provisional ballot to take with you.
 
2013-12-27 10:30:56 AM  
Is this the thread where we all say that because they only caught 17 people violating a law that is barely being enforced and has no inherent safeguards, that it clearly must not be a problem, and that we don't need to enforce it or build any safeguards into the system?
 
2013-12-27 10:32:01 AM  
Why cant they just have a rule or a clause or something that you can vote if your grandfather voted?
 
2013-12-27 10:32:14 AM  

lockers: I can't even tell you the last time someone asked me for ID when using my credit card. Hmmm.... then again I am not a minority.


I think it's a state by state thing. Every time I go to Vegas they ask for id.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-27 10:35:29 AM  

serial_crusher: Is this the thread where we all say that because they only caught 17 people violating a law that is barely being enforced and has no inherent safeguards, that it clearly must not be a problem, and that we don't need to enforce it or build any safeguards into the system?


No it's the one where we pretend that Republicans aren't trying to pass off laws that place all sorts of obstacles in the way of minority voters is really about showing an ID.
 
2013-12-27 10:35:37 AM  

serial_crusher: Is this the thread where we all say that because they only caught 17 people violating a law that is barely being enforced and has no inherent safeguards, that it clearly must not be a problem, and that we don't need to enforce it or build any safeguards into the system?


yes. And correctly so. If a law is so rarely broken that enforcing it does more harm than not, it should not be enforced. Pretty simple.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-27 10:36:56 AM  

vernonFL: Why cant they just have a rule or a clause or something that you can vote if your grandfather voted?


Maybe it could be about your great great great grandfather.
 
2013-12-27 10:39:38 AM  
It isn't about 17 votes; even math hating Republicans know they didn't lose Ohio because of those 17 votes. How many votes is it about, Republicans? How many people do you think we can disenfranchise if we pass a voter ID law? What do your projections show? Are there enough to sway an election, or does it just make you feel good, to kick minorities around?
 
2013-12-27 10:41:49 AM  

serial_crusher: Is this the thread where we all say that because they only caught 17 people violating a law that is barely being enforced and has no inherent safeguards, that it clearly must not be a problem, and that we don't need to enforce it or build any safeguards into the system?


Well they obviously did some sort of enforcement or investigation to find those 17 people. In order to stop those 17 how many legal voters without ID would be turned away?

Every study has shown that the rate of illegal voting is statistically insignificant.

Or, maybe we should just let everyone vote, including illegal aliens. I bet we'd finally get politicians to take immigration reform seriously.
 
2013-12-27 10:54:56 AM  
Oh, bullshiat... This is about making it harder for demographics that, in general, support Democrats to vote. Plain and simple.

They have zero evidence of any widespread voter fraud to justify this.... It's painfully obvious what these laws are meant to do.
 
2013-12-27 10:56:53 AM  
Hi.

I'm an election worker, which means that I'm the one who would be validating your name and address.

I am about 30 years younger than any of the other election workers, and probably the only one with all of my hearing and vision.  Now, in my city, in order to vote you have to have either a) voted in the last election or b) filled out the annual town census. If you haven't done one of those things, you already have to verify your name and address with the warden- the only person in the room who's had any training.

Just to be clear- last time we had an election, the United States Congressman who lives in our Ward had to verify his address. Of course we all knew who he was, but he hadn't filled out the census, so no voting for him.

In order for someone to vote as another person, you would have to know someone who DID complete the census but will not vote, or someone who voted in the last election (even if that was the school board primary), but will not vote in this election.

It is simply not possible for you to do this on a scale to change a vote.

Making me check everyone's driver's license will just make everything take longer, which means that hourly employees, people who can't be late to work, people who don't have time to wait in line for hours, (you know, the poor) will be LESS LIKELY to vote.

Which is the goal.
 
2013-12-27 10:58:54 AM  
bull. farking. shiat.

this is about one thing and one thing only: preventing democratic constituencies from voting.

i39.tinypic.com
 
2013-12-27 11:07:49 AM  
So for one election- the senate primary- everyone knew that Elizabeth Warren was going to be the Democratic  nominee and Scott Brown was going to be the Republican nominee, but there were other primaries as well- school board and alderman, I think.

So this guy comes in and gives his address as "whatever, Cameron St", which is just a few minute walk away. I can't find his address- Cameron Street doesn't go that high, it stops at 30 or something, so I'm trying to figure out if I heard him correctly, and he huffily informs me that "technically" he lives in Cambridge.

A different town.

Ok, so you can't vote here, this is Somerville. You have to go to Cambridge.

So he gets SUPER HUFFY and insists that he WILL vote here, he doesn't care about the local elections, he just wants to vote for Scott Brown, and just because he's a registered Republican doesn't mean I can't stop him from voting.

I mean..he was in the wrong town. The wrong farking town. It was amazing.
 
2013-12-27 11:16:20 AM  

serial_crusher: Is this the thread where we all say that because they only caught 17 people violating a law that is barely being enforced and has no inherent safeguards, that it clearly must not be a problem, and that we don't need to enforce it or build any safeguards into the system?


Is this the thread where we pretend that voter fraud is a big issue and must be stopped at all costs even if it stops millions of low income, old and blah people from voting?
 
2013-12-27 11:16:32 AM  
Proving yourself to the private sector is not a right, voting is. Why is that so hard to understand?
 
2013-12-27 11:16:56 AM  
FTFA: I'm not saying we had zombie votes because we haven't seen that evidence yet

I wonder why we haven't seen that evidence yet. Surely it will turn up soon.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-12-27 11:18:14 AM  
Every time there is a thread about this I offer this challenge: someone step up and explain how elimination of early voting helps prevent voter fraud.

I haven't been answered once.  It's because this whole drive is about preventing votes that they don't like.
 
2013-12-27 11:19:20 AM  

what_now: So he gets SUPER HUFFY and insists that he WILL vote here, he doesn't care about the local elections, he just wants to vote for Scott Brown, and just because he's a registered Republican doesn't mean I can't stop him from voting.I mean..he was in the wrong town. The wrong farking town. It was amazing.


...but it's all those liberals and minorities with a sense of entitlement, of course.

Every Scott Brown supporter I've ever met seemed to have a huge inferiority complex and a chip on their shoulder... Thank goodness for big pickup trucks, though.
 
2013-12-27 11:19:29 AM  
//Scans article for clear, rational explanation of how requiring ID (which requires a fee in nearly every state) does not amount to an unconstitutional poll tax

Yeah, another bunch of anecdotal bullshiat and unsupported opinions.
 
2013-12-27 11:19:51 AM  
They should just have American Idol run the elections
 
2013-12-27 11:20:23 AM  

serial_crusher: Is this the thread where we all say that because they only caught 17 people violating a law that is barely being enforced and has no inherent safeguards, that it clearly must not be a problem, and that we don't need to enforce it or build any safeguards into the system?


No. Once you came in becomes 'the Serial Crusher spews shiat from every orifice while pretending he isn't a troll' thread.
 
2013-12-27 11:20:58 AM  
www.ironicsurrealism.com

If voter ID was good enough for Mandela then it should be good enough for the left
 
2013-12-27 11:21:23 AM  

netweavr: They should just have American Idol run the elections


If I recall correctly, once it gets down to the final two, Fox is allowed to disregard the votes and pick the winner.
 
2013-12-27 11:21:38 AM  

foo monkey: Serious question. In Virginia, a state included in the Civil Rights Act, I've always had to show a photo ID to vote. This is going back to the early 90s. How is it that another state doing the same thing is racist?


I live in Va as well and have only had to show my voter ID card and verify my address.
 
2013-12-27 11:22:40 AM  
So to be clear,  because 17 people were caught and are going to be prosecuted and thus showing the system works this means that somehow the system doesn't work?
 
2013-12-27 11:25:28 AM  
Asking voters to show identification is not racist, and it's not about voter suppression; It's about proving your ability to vote in a manner similar to how one validates his or her identity in the private sector.

That's true; my employer requires that I have an ID badge to prove that I'm an employee so that I can enter buildings and unlock doors to secure areas to which I have access.

The difference is that my employer gives me this ID for free.  You can't make people go pay for a drivers' license in order to vote, that's effectively a poll tax.  Give the voting ID out for free to everyone who's eligible to vote, and we're good.
 
2013-12-27 11:29:14 AM  
When you intentionally make it nearly impossible to actually obtain a non-driver ID in a state where you are trying to repress voters, you don't have a leg to stand on:

Quote:

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/voter/voteridlaw.shtml

A very simple 12 step process that does not in any way make it difficult to vote. Oh, don't forget to pay the money and order your birth certificate with the raised seal months in advance. If your current name does not match the name on your birth certificate because of marriage, don't forget to bring your marriage license. Hopefully, you aren't so old that the records aren't available. If the records are not in English, you may have a problem...

---
"If a voter does not POSSESS PROOF OF IDENTIFICATION FOR VOTING PURPOSES as defined at section 102(z.5)(2) of the Pennsylvania Election Code (25 P.S. § 2602(z.5)(2)) and requires proof of identification for voting purposes, the following applies:

You must declare under oath or affirmation by completing the Oath/ Affirmation Voter ID form that you do not possess any of the following forms of identification: In particular,

-Identification issued by the United States Government that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.*

- Identification issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired (unless issued by the Department of Transportation, then the expiration of the identification cannot be more than 12 months past the expiration date).

- Identification issued by a municipality of this Commonwealth to an employee of that municipality that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.

- Identification issued by an accredited Pennsylvania public or private institution of higher learning that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.

- Identification issued by a Pennsylvania care facility that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.

*In the case of a document from an agency of the armed forces of the United States or their reserve components, including the Pennsylvania National Guard, that establishes the voter as a current member or a veteran of the United States Armed Forces or National Guard and that does not designate a specific date on which the document expires, the document must include a notation indicating that the expiration is indefinite.

$13.50 fee for acquiring an Identification Card will be waived for individuals completing the Oath/ Affirmation Voter ID form. All identification documentation is still required to obtain an Identification Card as follows:

Step1
To obtain a Pennsylvania Photo Identification card, an individual needs to visit a Pennsylvania Department of Transportation Driver License Center with a completed Application for an Initial Photo Identification Card; form DL-54A, and the following:

Social Security Card
AND
One of the following:


Certificate of U.S. Citizenship
Certificate of Naturalization
Valid U.S. Passport
*Birth Certificate with a raised seal
PLUS

Two proofs of **residency such as lease agreements, current utility bills, mortgage documents, W-2 form, tax records

*If they do not have a birth certificate with a raised seal and are a Pennsylvania native; and do not have one of the acceptable, alternative forms of photo identification to vote; and will provide a signed oath/affirmation form, when visiting the PennDOT driver license center, they must:


Tell the PennDOT customer service representative they are a Pennsylvania native who needs a photo ID for voting purposes, and do not have a certified copy of their birth certificate;
Sign an oath/affirmation that they do not have an acceptable form of ID for voting purposes and the photo ID is needed for voting purposes;
Show a Social Security card and two proofs of residence, such as a deed, lease, tax bill, or utility bill;
Fill out a DL-54A form requesting a non-driver photo ID and;
Complete the HD01564F (Request for Certification of Birth Record for Voter ID Purposes Only) form, which collects information such as birth name, mother and father's name and place of birth. This Department of Health form is available at all Driver Licensing Centers.

PennDOT will then forward the completed form to the Department of Health, which maintains birth records. After verifying the birth record is on file, the Department of Health will securely transmit this information to PennDOT. PennDOT will then notify them by letter that their birth record has been confirmed. They may then return to any driver license center, with the above noted documentation, to receive your free photo ID for voting purposes. This verification process will take about ten days and does not require the payment of a fee.

**Students at least 18 years of age: Accepted proofs of residency include the room assignment paperwork (considered a lease) and one bill with their dorm room address on it. Bank statements, paystubs and credit card bills are all acceptable. Other Individuals who may not have any bills, leases or mortgage documents in their name may bring the person with whom they are living along with their Driver's License or Photo ID to a driver license center as one proof of residence.

Step 2
When their application and supporting documentation have been reviewed and processed, a Driver License Center staff member will direct the applicant to the Photo Center to have their photo taken for their Photo ID card.

Step 3
Once their photo has been taken, they will be issued a Photo ID card. "
 
2013-12-27 11:30:58 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: [www.ironicsurrealism.com image 456x552]

If voter ID was good enough for Mandela then it should be good enough for the left


How much did these South African IDs cost?
 
2013-12-27 11:31:26 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: Asking voters to show identification is not racist, and it's not about voter suppression; It's about proving your ability to vote in a manner similar to how one validates his or her identity in the private sector.

That's true; my employer requires that I have an ID badge to prove that I'm an employee so that I can enter buildings and unlock doors to secure areas to which I have access.

The difference is that my employer gives me this ID for free.  You can't make people go pay for a drivers' license in order to vote, that's effectively a poll tax.  Give the voting ID out for free to everyone who's eligible to vote, and we're good.


This. If my employer required an ID to get in, however the place to get the ID was 10 miles away, only open 9-2 on Fridays and im not allowed to leave my post to go get the ID, I'd right suspect that things weren't on the up and up.
 
2013-12-27 11:31:58 AM  

FishyFred: netweavr: They should just have American Idol run the elections

If I recall correctly, once it gets down to the final two, Fox is allowed to disregard the votes and pick the winner.


Just like normal then.
 
2013-12-27 11:32:05 AM  

FishyFred: FTFA: I'm not saying we had zombie votes because we haven't seen that evidence yet

I wonder why we haven't seen that evidence yet. Surely it will turn up soon.


skepticalcubefarm.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-27 11:32:25 AM  

Sleeping Monkey: Proving yourself to the private sector is not a right, voting is. Why is that so hard to understand?


Is your opinion on gun ownership consistent with that viewpoint?
 
2013-12-27 11:34:04 AM  

GoldSpider: Is your opinion on gun ownership consistent with that viewpoint?


What does the private sector have to do with gun rights? What exactly are you trolling for?
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-12-27 11:34:49 AM  

GoldSpider: Sleeping Monkey: Proving yourself to the private sector is not a right, voting is. Why is that so hard to understand?

Is your opinion on gun ownership consistent with that viewpoint?


groundreport.com
 
2013-12-27 11:35:47 AM  

netweavr: They should just have American Idol run the elections


Hell no. I watched my wife put in some votes for her mom. They give you 50 votes, and with each one you have to do a captcha.

I say we toss them all into a ring and let them fight it out. If they really want the job, prove it.
And if they don't do the job they are supposed to, feed 'em to the lions
 
2013-12-27 11:36:27 AM  
This is the same scam as requiring abortion clinics to have residency in a hospital.  Pass that law, then make sure no hospitals permit residency of abortion clinics.

Want to vote?  Sure, you need an ID.  Sounds reasonable.  But then you look into it, and you see that they tweak things so the "wrong" people have a harder time getting an ID.  Places open only during working hours?  Check.  Prohibitive cost?  Check.  Jumping through hoops?  Check.  Oh, and while we're at it, let's put fewer voting areas in historically democrat areas.  And make it illegal for them to stay open and collect votes even if there's long lines because of what we've been doing.  Because fark democracy, we want to make sure people get to exercise their right to vote, but only if they vote for the right guy.

If you support this sort of activity, you're supporting the end of democracy.  Period.  Pretending that the above is not the case is merely a matter of willful ignorance.
 
2013-12-27 11:37:01 AM  
Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted announced Wednesday that his office found 17 non-citizens illegally cast ballots in the 2012 presidential election - and has referred the case for possible prosecution.

17 illegally cast ballots.  And they don't even mention whether or not voter ID would have prevented them or if some of them were absentees.

But let's for a moment assume the best case in their favor - all 17 would have been prevented if the voters has been required to show ID.
Obama got 2,827,621 votes in Ohio to Romney's 2,661,407, for a margin of 166,214 votes.

This leads us to two questions:

First, do the people pushing for voter ID actually think that in-person voter fraud is swinging elections?  Do they think that for every person caught illegally voting there are almost 10,000 other people who are not caught?

Secondly, what is the number of voters that the people pushing for voter ID are willing to disenfranchise to stop these 17 illegal voters?  Because I'm damn sure that more than 17 people have sued in various states because these laws made them unable to vote.
 
2013-12-27 11:37:24 AM  
If states put their efforts into actually getting people IDs first, and then instituted new voting rules it would go over better, but instead they rush to push voter id laws into effect in a clear effort to disenfranchise the poor. It's also pretty terrible that the dreaded "voter fraud" that they're trying to prevent simply doesn't exist, making their efforts look even more racist.

Sure, voter id makes sense, but pair it with more opportunities to vote and not less like North Cackalackey is doing, or it just looks like the clear racism that it is.

As is, Voter ID makes as much sense as Gerrymandering.
 
2013-12-27 11:37:26 AM  

physt: serial_crusher: Is this the thread where we all say that because they only caught 17 people violating a law that is barely being enforced and has no inherent safeguards, that it clearly must not be a problem, and that we don't need to enforce it or build any safeguards into the system?

Is this the thread where we pretend that voter fraud is a big issue and must be stopped at all costs even if it stops millions of low income, old and blah people from voting?


Every voter id thread is an "everybody's retarded" thread. There's no smoke filled room plotting to disenfranchise everybody, and there's no convoy of illegals being driven up from Mexico to vote Democrat.

Both parties just use it as an excuse to get their target demographics riled up and ignoring other actual issues.
 
2013-12-27 11:38:49 AM  
And when most minority citizens of these states succeed in getting their IDs, these states will then impose new, ever-stiffer obstacles.  Perhaps poll taxes or literacy tests, which Scalia will invent an intellectual justification for.
 
2013-12-27 11:39:57 AM  
FTA: If something is broken, why don't we try to fix it or at least improve it?

Because the cost of fixing the problem is more than the cost of the problem.  It's the same reason I didn't get the FM radio or the rear passenger side power window fixed on my hand-me-down 1990 Ford POS - it would have cost more than the car was worth.
 
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