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(Huffington Post)   How sites like Huffington Post and YouTube are censoring the Internet   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, HuffPost, internet, u.s. newspapers  
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8844 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Dec 2013 at 9:01 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-27 01:38:10 PM  

enderthexenocide: the only website i ever post comments on is fark anyway.  i've never left a comment on youtube or any other media or news site, and i can't imagine ever wanting to.  i don't know why anybody does, there is no coherent conversation and no intelligent discourse whatsoever on a news site's comment thread.  fark at least sort of resembles a community and there can be actual conversations in each thread.  but if fark required a facebook page to log in, i would stop posting here too.


This is exactly how I feel. I only interact via comments here. I don't have nor do I want Facebook, Google Plus, Twitter, or any of that crap. I learned my lesson on IRC back in the day that practically all "conversations" on the internet were utter, pointless garbage. My husband and I sat reading a Star Trek channel on IRC once (he likes Star Trek) and it was just streams of a/s/l and invective, not a word about the ostensible topic of the channel. He looked at me and said "This is a waste of time." I've not seen any commenting system since that has changed that opinion, except for Fark. Here, a lot of people are funny, interesting, point out cool stuff I might otherwise have missed, etc. There is an unfortunate population of trolls, but that's true everywhere, and I pretty much ignore them when they spew garbage into a thread.

Be proud, Farkers! You're better than 99% of internet commenters!
 
2013-12-27 01:42:56 PM  

TV's Vinnie: udhq: As someone who's local paper's comments forum was taken over by straight-up white supremacists, I'm ok with this.

You have a right to say and believe as you wish, and I should have a right to not do business with the morally challenged.

Dude. Why not? Posting against White Supremacists would be like shooting fish in a barrel.


You can't ridicule someone to whom a narrow world view is a point of personal pride.
 
2013-12-27 02:42:10 PM  

udhq: TV's Vinnie: udhq: As someone who's local paper's comments forum was taken over by straight-up white supremacists, I'm ok with this.

You have a right to say and believe as you wish, and I should have a right to not do business with the morally challenged.

Dude. Why not? Posting against White Supremacists would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

You can't ridicule someone to whom a narrow world view is a point of personal pride.


No. But you can certainly help keep him from being taken seriously by others who may be sitting on the fence.
 
2013-12-27 03:00:25 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: badhatharry: Voiceofreason01: In other news: Google and HuffPo are just now figuring out that giving assholes an unlimited and anonymous forum to say anything they want is probably going to end badly.

Taking away anonymous speech will end badly.

If you're gonna say something as an internet toughguy, then own it.


In a world full of rational, mentally healthy people, I'd be happy to.  I don't hesitate to share my opinions with people I know personally to be rational, mentally healthy people, even if we strongly disagree.  Sometimes because we strongly disagree.

But on a public forum your audience will always include irrational, mentally ill people.  And I don't want to be looking over my shoulder for some unbalanced stalker who doesn't agree with me.  Had that problem once when I participated in a thread on another forum that was calling out a scammer.  He figured out who I was and that I was local (wasn't hard given the nature of that particular community) and threatened myself and my family.  Police took a report, but nothing else "unless it escalates".  I don't need that crap in my life.

Our local paper went to the facebook comments some time ago.  Things were definitely out of hand there with a few instances where some less stable users publically "outed" their adversarie's names and such and threatened them.  The move to facebook logins has tamed things, but it has also killed the discussions, which were often far more enlightening then the shoddy reporting of the initial story... if you had the stomach to wade through all the crap.

So I won't participate in other then the most benign way in public discussions where I have to use my true identity.  Mostly I don't bother at all.

What I am curious about is which way the money flows through these login tie-ins.
 
2013-12-27 03:05:21 PM  

TV's Vinnie: udhq: As someone who's local paper's comments forum was taken over by straight-up white supremacists, I'm ok with this.

You have a right to say and believe as you wish, and I should have a right to not do business with the morally challenged.

Dude. Why not? Posting against White Supremacists would be like shooting fish in a barrel.


Unless your local paper's comments forum requires you to use a real name, in which case all the local fruitcakes who think anyone with differing opinions should have their tires slashed knows where you live.

Youtube's comments have been a sewer for years, but they've actually made it worse.  Now instead of "no, YOU'RE a poopyhead" you see dozens of notifications that people have shared something on their G+ page.  There's no context to these, it makes NO sense.  It's clear Google is trying to prop up G+.  I used to post the odd YT comment, and some of the comments (of others) were pure gold.  I don't even bother reading them any more.

I see no reason for forums to require real names be published, as long as someone registers with an email and is reminded that abusive comments will be reported to their ISP.

I suspect the driving force in a lot of this is media sites not wanting to be target of some lawyered-up tool with thin skin who's been "libelled" in comments.

The Slashdot forum model seems the most workable to me.  It can be gamed, but it's the best solution so far.
 
2013-12-27 03:30:38 PM  

badhatharry: Voiceofreason01: In other news: Google and HuffPo are just now figuring out that giving assholes an unlimited and anonymous forum to say anything they want is probably going to end badly.

Taking away anonymous speech will end badly.


You never had any.  Idiot.

You connected to the internet with a computing device, you now have an IP address and a unique mac address.
You used a browser to interact with the website.  You now have shared your user name, PC ID, browser string, and your IP address.
You did this from hardware you own, such as at home or at work.

If I had access to fark server logs, I could unmask you, provide your name and address, and very likely a recent picture of you, all in a matter of minutes.

So... no, you aren't anonymous, you weren't even remotely close.
 
2013-12-27 03:45:41 PM  

Kahabut: badhatharry: Voiceofreason01: In other news: Google and HuffPo are just now figuring out that giving assholes an unlimited and anonymous forum to say anything they want is probably going to end badly.

Taking away anonymous speech will end badly.

You never had any.  Idiot.

You connected to the internet with a computing device, you now have an IP address and a unique mac address.
You used a browser to interact with the website.  You now have shared your user name, PC ID, browser string, and your IP address.
You did this from hardware you own, such as at home or at work.

If I had access to fark server logs, I could unmask you, provide your name and address, and very likely a recent picture of you, all in a matter of minutes.

So... no, you aren't anonymous, you weren't even remotely close.


I am effectively anonymous with respect to other site participants, which is what I'm concerned about.  The site admins may be able to identify me, and would likely assist law enforcement given the proper paperwork.  But I'm generally not to concerned with that.
 
2013-12-27 03:56:25 PM  
I quit huffpo over this issue. I hate political stuff in Facebook, and used huffpo as my political outlet. The last thing I want is any link back to my professional life, friends, and relatives.
 
2013-12-27 04:07:10 PM  
Who cares, they're private sites and the measures are meant for stopping abusive posts. The lack of anonymous posting means squat if you can just sign up with some random spam email account.

Requiring Facebook is an abomination though.
 
2013-12-27 04:23:28 PM  

Kahabut: badhatharry: Voiceofreason01: In other news: Google and HuffPo are just now figuring out that giving assholes an unlimited and anonymous forum to say anything they want is probably going to end badly.

Taking away anonymous speech will end badly.

You never had any.  Idiot.

You connected to the internet with a computing device, you now have an IP address and a unique mac address.
You used a browser to interact with the website.  You now have shared your user name, PC ID, browser string, and your IP address.
You did this from hardware you own, such as at home or at work.

If I had access to fark server logs, I could unmask you, provide your name and address, and very likely a recent picture of you, all in a matter of minutes.

So... no, you aren't anonymous, you weren't even remotely close.


Wow, when an about.com page, the first hit on a search for "guide to anonymous web surfing" takes care of all of your routes to identifying someone, I would say you don't appreciate that this is an easily addressed reality.

Step 1. Buy laptop at flea market for cash, and install fresh copy of *nix
Step 2. Buy USB wifi dongle at flea market for cash.
Step 3. Wardrive or go to nearest free hotspot(without entering premises to avoid cameras)
Step 4. Use any number of free proxies(only necessary to slow identification of general location, Pringles cans FTW)
Step 5. Sign up for all necessary login methods with newly created email addresses
Step 6. Profit!

And this is just what the average person can do with no training or advanced knowledge
 
2013-12-27 06:43:47 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: what_now: This is literally the equivalent of going to someone's house, making an ass out of yourself, and then complaining when they kick you out.

Actually, the literal equivalent of going to someone's house and making an ass of yourself would be going to someone's house and making an ass of yourself.


So we can add the word "equivalent" to the list of things you don't understand.
 
2013-12-27 06:45:18 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: Kahabut: badhatharry: Voiceofreason01: In other news: Google and HuffPo are just now figuring out that giving assholes an unlimited and anonymous forum to say anything they want is probably going to end badly.

Taking away anonymous speech will end badly.

You never had any.  Idiot.

You connected to the internet with a computing device, you now have an IP address and a unique mac address.
You used a browser to interact with the website.  You now have shared your user name, PC ID, browser string, and your IP address.
You did this from hardware you own, such as at home or at work.

If I had access to fark server logs, I could unmask you, provide your name and address, and very likely a recent picture of you, all in a matter of minutes.

So... no, you aren't anonymous, you weren't even remotely close.

Wow, when an about.com page, the first hit on a search for "guide to anonymous web surfing" takes care of all of your routes to identifying someone, I would say you don't appreciate that this is an easily addressed reality.

Step 1. Buy laptop at flea market for cash, and install fresh copy of *nix
Step 2. Buy USB wifi dongle at flea market for cash.
Step 3. Wardrive or go to nearest free hotspot(without entering premises to avoid cameras)
Step 4. Use any number of free proxies(only necessary to slow identification of general location, Pringles cans FTW)
Step 5. Sign up for all necessary login methods with newly created email addresses
Step 6. Profit!

And this is just what the average person can do with no training or advanced knowledge


Look, if you want to we can argue the finer details all day long.  But the bottom line is that people DON'T take these or many other useful steps.  They use a "proxy" and think they are untraceable.  It's laughable.

Step 7: The FBI localizes the access violation and traces every cell phone in the area.  You become a person of interest.
Step 8: They review 200 hrs of security camera video. You are found withdrawing cash near the flea market, and later, carrying a laptop
Step 9: The FBI interviews you, asks to see your laptop, you show them a different one than the one in the picture.
Step 10: You are convicted in federal court.
 
2013-12-27 06:47:32 PM  

squirrelflavoredyogurt: Voiceofreason01: In other news: Google and HuffPo are just now figuring out that giving assholes an unlimited and anonymous forum to say anything they want is probably going to end badly.

Making people sign up for a facebook account and link it to your HP account in order to comment is going to end much better though? I guess we'll have to see how it plays out.


Yeah, becauxe if it's that important for you to comment on HuffPo articles, it's not like you can just make a facebook account without any real information...
 
2013-12-27 06:50:07 PM  

super_grass: Who cares, they're private sites and the measures are meant for stopping abusive posts. The lack of anonymous posting means squat if you can just sign up with some random spam email account.

Requiring Facebook is an abomination though.


You can make a Facebook account with nothing but a random spam email account.
 
2013-12-27 06:50:52 PM  

Kahabut: So... no, you aren't anonymous, you weren't even remotely close.

Wow, when an about.com page, the first hit on a search for "guide to anonymous web surfing" takes care of all of your routes to identifying someone, I would say you don't appreciate that this is an easily addressed reality.

Step 1. Buy laptop at flea market for cash, and install fresh copy of *nix
Step 2. Buy USB wifi dongle at flea market for cash.
Step 3. Wardrive or go to nearest free hotspot(without entering premises to avoid cameras)
Step 4. Use any number of free proxies(only necessary to slow identification of general location, Pringles cans FTW)
Step 5. Sign up for all necessary login methods with newly created email addresses
Step 6. Profit!

And this is just what the average person can do with no training or advanced knowledge

Look, if you want to we can argue the finer details all day long. But the bottom line is that people DON'T take these or many other useful steps. They use a "proxy" and think they are untraceable. It's laughable.

Step 7: The FBI localizes the access violation and traces every cell phone in the area. You become a person of interest.
Step 8: They review 200 hrs of security camera video. You are found withdrawing cash near the flea market, and later, carrying a laptop
Step 9: The FBI interviews you, asks to see your laptop, you show them a different one than the one in the picture.
Step 10: You are convicted in federal court.


So true, and people everywhere would benefit while we could sit back and enjoy the knowledge that the alphabet groups pulled a little more hair out of their heads because of us.
 
2013-12-27 06:57:17 PM  
Kahabut:
Step 7: Don't say stuff in public discussion fora that will make the FBI spend hundreds of hours tracking you down.
Step 7: The FBI localizes the access violation and traces every cell phone in the area.  You become a person of interest.
Step 8: They review 200 hrs of security camera video. You are found withdrawing c ...
 
2013-12-27 07:04:24 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: Kahabut: So... no, you aren't anonymous, you weren't even remotely close.

Wow, when an about.com page, the first hit on a search for "guide to anonymous web surfing" takes care of all of your routes to identifying someone, I would say you don't appreciate that this is an easily addressed reality.

Step 1. Buy laptop at flea market for cash, and install fresh copy of *nix
Step 2. Buy USB wifi dongle at flea market for cash.
Step 3. Wardrive or go to nearest free hotspot(without entering premises to avoid cameras)
Step 4. Use any number of free proxies(only necessary to slow identification of general location, Pringles cans FTW)
Step 5. Sign up for all necessary login methods with newly created email addresses
Step 6. Profit!

And this is just what the average person can do with no training or advanced knowledge

Look, if you want to we can argue the finer details all day long. But the bottom line is that people DON'T take these or many other useful steps. They use a "proxy" and think they are untraceable. It's laughable.

Step 7: The FBI localizes the access violation and traces every cell phone in the area. You become a person of interest.
Step 8: They review 200 hrs of security camera video. You are found withdrawing cash near the flea market, and later, carrying a laptop
Step 9: The FBI interviews you, asks to see your laptop, you show them a different one than the one in the picture.
Step 10: You are convicted in federal court.

So true, and people everywhere would benefit while we could sit back and enjoy the knowledge that the alphabet groups pulled a little more hair out of their heads because of us.


It does kinda make me chuckle to think of that.
 
2013-12-27 07:17:36 PM  

Dansker: squirrelflavoredyogurt: Voiceofreason01: In other news: Google and HuffPo are just now figuring out that giving assholes an unlimited and anonymous forum to say anything they want is probably going to end badly.

Making people sign up for a facebook account and link it to your HP account in order to comment is going to end much better though? I guess we'll have to see how it plays out.

Yeah, becauxe if it's that important for you to comment on HuffPo articles, it's not like you can just make a facebook account without any real information...


Clearly, it isn't that important to me. I'm guessing it isn't that important to a lot of people.
 
2013-12-27 07:28:17 PM  

Kahabut: If I had access to fark server logs, I could unmask you, provide your name and address, and very likely a recent picture of you, all in a matter of minutes.

So... no, you aren't anonymous, you weren't even remotely close.


This could be a problem if Fark made it a regular habit to provide server logs to random creepy stalker dudes.
 
2013-12-27 08:09:27 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: You're not being censored, you're being forced to take credit for the shiat you say online. HUGE difference, morans.

/ITT: area internet users passionate defenders of what they imagine censorship to be


Anyone familiar with comment threads on LinkedIn knows how boring this can be: "Great link, Jim!  I learned a lot!!"

Actions Have Consequences sounds good, until it muzzles even the slightest contention.  HP is about political-social controversy, yet posting under your own name makes you risk looking like a Debbie Downer/Eeyore if you post anything not sanguinely optimistic.  This can hurt your employment or hiring prospects.

And the biggest difference between the USA and AA right now is that at least the recovering juicers at AA can admit that they have a problem.  But try starting any critical thread on LinkedIn, and see whether you get any bites.
 
2013-12-27 09:13:36 PM  

CourtroomWolf: Kahabut: If I had access to fark server logs, I could unmask you, provide your name and address, and very likely a recent picture of you, all in a matter of minutes.

So... no, you aren't anonymous, you weren't even remotely close.

This could be a problem if Fark made it a regular habit to provide server logs to random creepy stalker dudes.


What that might look like:

img.fark.net
 
2013-12-27 11:29:40 PM  

Utter Genius: I'm going to miss all the inciteful, interesting, and intelligent commentary I have read on Youtube comments over the years, such as


I'm always BAFFLED by how people completely disregard, even hold in total contempt, Youtube comments UNTIL they're disabled. Then it's all "ZOMG!!!11 Y U HATE DISCOURSE?!?!?!"
 
2013-12-28 12:38:18 AM  
The problem with the idea of "moderation by bullying" -- forcing people to make public their real-life personal information in order to comment -- is that it disproportionately affects the people you would most want to comment, and barely touches the jerks. Bad people are not afraid of being bullied by good people; quite the other way around.

Take, say, my mother-in-law. She has lived a long and interesting life, and she is unfailingly polite. Any comment she chose to make would probably be insightful and useful. But would she ever give out her real name (which, since it's pretty much unique, could very quickly be traced to her address, etc., even without any help from anything on Facebook) as the price of making that comment? This is a person who, despite living in a very safe area, double-checks her multiple door locks before she goes to bed. She's not going to tell every Internet Tough Guy who she is and where she lives. So the only winners are the trolls and douchebags, because they get to say what they want, while voices like my MIL's are silenced.

Really, I don't think expecting "moderation by bullying" to work, nor turning over comment sections to trolls and random wankers, is going to be good in the long run. Impartial moderation can work. It does work. But it takes moderators to do it, and these sites don't want to pay moderators. They want bullies to do the job for them. And that will not end well.
 
pla
2013-12-28 01:27:43 PM  
Kahabut : If I had access to fark server logs, I could unmask you, provide your name and address, and very likely a recent picture of you, all in a matter of minutes.

If you had Fark's logs, and my Swedish VPN provider's logs (and they promise they don't keep any), and my own ISP's logs... Then you could indeed "unmask" me.  You go with your bad self!

So if you work for the NSA, basically, you already have my picture up on your screen; for everyone else, good luck with that little CSI-esque fantasy of creating a GUI interface in Visual Basic to see if you can track my IP address. ;)

Realistically, you would have a lot better luck reading my comments and building a profile based on the occasional personal detail I've let slip; though even then, good luck - I deliberately "fuzz" such details, as a habit.  For example, my VPN service doesn't really operate out of Sweden (or does it?), though the detail of which nondescript Northern European country hosts it has no bearing on the general accuracy of my underlying point.
 
2013-12-28 04:49:19 PM  

pla: Kahabut : If I had access to fark server logs, I could unmask you, provide your name and address, and very likely a recent picture of you, all in a matter of minutes.

If you had Fark's logs, and my Swedish VPN provider's logs (and they promise they don't keep any), and my own ISP's logs... Then you could indeed "unmask" me.  You go with your bad self!


Yarp, same goes for me, but with "Danish" instead of "Swedish" perhaps.
 
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