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(The Raw Story)   Rep. Paul Ryan (R-oman Catholic) says that the Pope is "entitled to his opinion," but that he really doesn't know enough about capitalism to criticize it   (rawstory.com) divider line 230
    More: Stupid, Paul Ryan, conservative Catholics, American Catholics, Sen. John McCain, capitalism, Rush Limbaugh, Pat Toomey  
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2804 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Dec 2013 at 5:43 PM (30 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



230 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-26 02:11:45 PM
so, party before country... and now, party before religion?
 
2013-12-26 02:14:10 PM
076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com

"I wouldn't worry about it. Vatican City's not a very big religious town."
 
2013-12-26 02:17:28 PM
"The guy is from Argentina, they haven't had real capitalism in Argentina," Ryan said. "They have crony capitalism in Argentina. They don't have a true free enterprise system."

Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?
 
2013-12-26 02:21:01 PM
Here's a criticism:

Paul Ryan is a farking social conservative dipshiat. A useful idiot for corporatism.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-12-26 02:23:52 PM

FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?


Ryan is a Ayn Rand follower.  Rand's Objectivism teaches that if you love God more than yourself, you are immoral.  Greed is a virtue and that if you aren't self centered you don't deserve to be loved.  She wrote a book titled the Virtue of Selfishness.  None of this is an exaggeration.

Ryan worships Ayn Rand's writings, not the bible.

Here it is in his own words.
 
2013-12-26 02:24:35 PM

keylock71: Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?


Yeah, that raised my eyebrows a bit.

(Also, it was Toomey who said pope Frankie was "entitled to his opinion", but that's a minor detail.)
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-12-26 02:24:59 PM
Of course Paul Ryan has tried to claim his following of Ayn Rand is nothing but Urban legend.  Which of course is a huge lie.
 
2013-12-26 02:25:22 PM
img.fark.net
 
2013-12-26 02:29:29 PM

abb3w: keylock71: Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?

Yeah, that raised my eyebrows a bit.


If anything, the Argentinians most likely learned the finer points of Crony Capitalism from the United States...

Seems like the Pope has a much better grasp of Capitalism than Ryan does (providing Ryan actually believes the bullshiat that falls out of his mouth).
 
2013-12-26 02:29:38 PM

keylock71: "The guy is from Argentina, they haven't had real capitalism in Argentina," Ryan said. "They have crony capitalism in Argentina. They don't have a true free enterprise system."

Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?


This sounds remarkably like what people say when defending communism, that it hasn't been applied in its true form. Is Paul Ryan a communist?
 
2013-12-26 02:32:04 PM
Ayn Rand's father should have pulled out.
 
2013-12-26 02:33:25 PM

Irving Maimway: Ayn Rand's father should have pulled out.


Wouldn't have worked.

Some other asshole would take her place.
 
2013-12-26 02:36:41 PM

RminusQ: Is Paul Ryan a communist?


He's something far worse... An ideologue.
 
2013-12-26 02:39:39 PM

keylock71: abb3w: keylock71: Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?

Yeah, that raised my eyebrows a bit.

If anything, the Argentinians most likely learned the finer points of Crony Capitalism from the United States...

Seems like the Pope has a much better grasp of Capitalism than Ryan does (providing Ryan actually believes the bullshiat that falls out of his mouth).


Argentina got full-dosage Friedman Chicago school capitalism.  They fully deregulated and let market forces dictate.  Today, they have 20% unemployment with 50% of the population below the poverty line.  That is precisely Ryan's prescription for the USA.  The upside?  The rich have become the super-rich, and the super-rich have become the ultra-rich.
 
2013-12-26 02:42:24 PM
Look at that: a genuine Cafeteria Catholic

/don't see those everyday
 
2013-12-26 02:42:34 PM

keylock71: RminusQ: Is Paul Ryan a communist?

He's something far worse... An ideologue.


Which isn't such a bad thing. Depends on what you believe.
 
2013-12-26 02:50:42 PM

keylock71: "The guy is from Argentina, they haven't had real capitalism in Argentina," Ryan said. "They have crony capitalism in Argentina. They don't have a true free enterprise system."

Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?


I'm constantly being told by Randroids that we don't have a true free enterprise system either.
 
2013-12-26 02:51:04 PM
FTFA: Catholic Republican lawmakers are rattled by Pope Francis, whose recent comments have shaken up assumptions about their church and its relationship to their political party.

There's your problem, Republicans.  Leave your farking religion out of politics.  I think the founding fathers that you like to stroke yourselves to so much offered some guidance on that notion.
 
2013-12-26 03:01:52 PM

unyon: Argentina got full-dosage Friedman Chicago school capitalism.


Courtesy of Henry Kissenger, the U.S. Congress, and Ronald Reagan...

"Look, our basic attitude is that we would like you to succeed. I have an old-fashioned view that friends ought to be supported. What is not understood in the United States is that you have a civil war. We read about human rights problems but not the context. The quicker you succeed the better... " -Henry Kissenger in support of the Argentina Military Junta, 1976
 
2013-12-26 03:08:58 PM

keylock71: unyon: Argentina got full-dosage Friedman Chicago school capitalism.

Courtesy of Henry Kissenger, the U.S. Congress, and Ronald Reagan...

"Look, our basic attitude is that we would like you to succeed. I have an old-fashioned view that friends ought to be supported. What is not understood in the United States is that you have a civil war. We read about human rights problems but not the context. The quicker you succeed the better... " -Henry Kissenger in support of the Argentina Military Junta, 1976


Someone should have cockpunched that guy all the way back to Germany or whatever hellhole he was borne of.
 
2013-12-26 03:11:15 PM

keylock71: unyon: Argentina got full-dosage Friedman Chicago school capitalism.

Courtesy of Henry Kissenger, the U.S. Congress, and Ronald Reagan...

"Look, our basic attitude is that we would like you to succeed. I have an old-fashioned view that friends ought to be supported. What is not understood in the United States is that you have a civil war. We read about human rights problems but not the context. The quicker you succeed the better... " -Henry Kissenger in support of the Argentina Military Junta, 1976


And after 14 years of a privatized pension system they undid all that and seem to be doing much better now. So I think we can say as far as retirement savings goes, they tried it and found out it sucked.
 
2013-12-26 03:13:17 PM
It doesn't matter whether Argentina experienced or didn't experienced capitalism... Unlike Americans, those people read books (real books, not just Harry potter) and they read and learn about other countries and are curious about the world.
 
2013-12-26 03:15:06 PM

whidbey: keylock71: RminusQ: Is Paul Ryan a communist?

He's something far worse... An ideologue.

Which isn't such a bad thing. Depends on what you believe.


Eh... Ideologues don't act based on the world as it exists around them, but rather, based on how they want the world to be and assuming most everyone will agree with them. It doesn't matter whether I agree with them or not. You can justify just about anything when you view the world like that.


whidbey: Someone should have cockpunched that guy all the way back to Germany or whatever hellhole he was borne of.


You'll get no argument from me on that one... The man was pure filth.
 
2013-12-26 03:17:13 PM
serious question: has trickle-down theory ever worked in practice? i know that niall ferguson likes to cite chile, but is this valid?
 
2013-12-26 03:18:23 PM
Pope Francis was born and grew up during the dirty war in Argentina when anyone  believed to be associated with socialism just disappeared. The idea of a Pope having the audacity to express what many feel the scripture requires, that men should be decent to other human beings is what is causing the outrage. The Pope is just doing what a good Pope is supposed to do.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-26 03:20:03 PM

RminusQ: keylock71: "The guy is from Argentina, they haven't had real capitalism in Argentina," Ryan said. "They have crony capitalism in Argentina. They don't have a true free enterprise system."

Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?

This sounds remarkably like what people say when defending communism, that it hasn't been applied in its true form. Is Paul Ryan a communist?


Did he say that anything like "capitalism hasn't been tried in it's true form"?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-26 03:20:38 PM

FlashHarry: serious question: has trickle-down theory ever worked in practice? i know that niall ferguson likes to cite chile, but is this valid?


It's worked pretty well for the people who invented it.
 
2013-12-26 03:27:53 PM

keylock71: whidbey: keylock71: RminusQ: Is Paul Ryan a communist?

He's something far worse... An ideologue.

Which isn't such a bad thing. Depends on what you believe.T

Eh... Ideologues don't act based on the world as it exists around them, but rather, based on how they want the world to be and assuming most everyone will agree with them. It doesn't matter whether I agree with them or not. You can justify just about anything when you view the world like that.


Not to turn this into a huge side-debate, but one could argue that MLK and other human rights activists didn't "act" based on the real world, but on the world they wanted to create.

I don't think that's a fair assessment.

For that matter, environmentalists and other activists could be accused of being "ideologues." The truth isn't always pretty or compatible with people's lifestyles.
 
2013-12-26 03:28:01 PM

vpb: FlashHarry: serious question: has trickle-down theory ever worked in practice? i know that niall ferguson likes to cite chile, but is this valid?

It's worked pretty well for the people who invented it.


Pretty much... One could argue, it works exactly how it was intended to. Namely, to concentrate wealth and power into the hands of a relatively small group of people.
 
2013-12-26 03:29:50 PM
The Pope was not speaking solely about economic systems but calling for people on an individual level not to focus so much on self-validation through consumerism and material wealthy. It applies to billionaires and average people, too. We should not make accruing material things and money the focus of our lives.
 
2013-12-26 03:32:14 PM

whidbey: keylock71: whidbey: keylock71: RminusQ: Is Paul Ryan a communist?

He's something far worse... An ideologue.

Which isn't such a bad thing. Depends on what you believe.T

Eh... Ideologues don't act based on the world as it exists around them, but rather, based on how they want the world to be and assuming most everyone will agree with them. It doesn't matter whether I agree with them or not. You can justify just about anything when you view the world like that.

Not to turn this into a huge side-debate, but one could argue that MLK and other human rights activists didn't "act" based on the real world, but on the world they wanted to create.

I don't think that's a fair assessment.

For that matter, environmentalists and other activists could be accused of being "ideologues." The truth isn't always pretty or compatible with people's lifestyles.


Fair enough... But you could argue that MLK was also very much a pragmatist. Particularly, in his ability to build coalitions and work with other groups, non-violently, towards a common goal.
 
2013-12-26 03:33:23 PM

Nabb1: The Pope was not speaking solely about economic systems but calling for people on an individual level not to focus so much on self-validation through consumerism and material wealthy. It applies to billionaires and average people, too. We should not make accruing material things and money the focus of our lives.


Yeah right. A bit late for that, seeing as how we're this embarrassingly corporate consumerist nation who just celebrated a huge corporate consumerist holiday. Hypocrite, much?
 
2013-12-26 03:35:39 PM

whidbey: Nabb1: The Pope was not speaking solely about economic systems but calling for people on an individual level not to focus so much on self-validation through consumerism and material wealthy. It applies to billionaires and average people, too. We should not make accruing material things and money the focus of our lives.

Yeah right. A bit late for that, seeing as how we're this embarrassingly corporate consumerist nation who just celebrated a huge corporate consumerist holiday. Hypocrite, much?


Who, the Pope?
 
2013-12-26 03:36:04 PM

keylock71: whidbey: keylock71: whidbey: keylock71: RminusQ: Is Paul Ryan a communist?

He's something far worse... An ideologue.

Which isn't such a bad thing. Depends on what you believe.T

Eh... Ideologues don't act based on the world as it exists around them, but rather, based on how they want the world to be and assuming most everyone will agree with them. It doesn't matter whether I agree with them or not. You can justify just about anything when you view the world like that.

Not to turn this into a huge side-debate, but one could argue that MLK and other human rights activists didn't "act" based on the real world, but on the world they wanted to create.

I don't think that's a fair assessment.

For that matter, environmentalists and other activists could be accused of being "ideologues." The truth isn't always pretty or compatible with people's lifestyles.

Fair enough... But you could argue that MLK was also very much a pragmatist. Particularly, in his ability to build coalitions and work with other groups, non-violently, towards a common goal.


Yeah but he obviously believed that people "pragmatically" practice the altruism in the Bible, too, and they didn't and don't, by and large. I believe that he was simply driven, and that his message doesn't deserve the overwhelming condemnation of what Ryan believes.
 
2013-12-26 03:37:13 PM
Would you believe that there are some people who think Ryan isn't far ENOUGH to the right??!?!??!?!?!

fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-12-26 03:37:15 PM

Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: The Pope was not speaking solely about economic systems but calling for people on an individual level not to focus so much on self-validation through consumerism and material wealthy. It applies to billionaires and average people, too. We should not make accruing material things and money the focus of our lives.

Yeah right. A bit late for that, seeing as how we're this embarrassingly corporate consumerist nation who just celebrated a huge corporate consumerist holiday. Hypocrite, much?

Who, the Pope?


No, you, Francis. Are you really that unaware of the irony of your statement?
 
2013-12-26 03:37:53 PM

keylock71: Pretty much... One could argue, it works exactly how it was intended to. Namely, to concentrate wealth and power into the hands of a relatively small group of people.


right - but has it ever been a "rising tide that lifts all boats" as it has been sold to the american people over the past 30 years?

i mean, keynesian theory has worked in practice - just witness the three-decade post WWII boom. but is there an equivalent example for the other side?
 
2013-12-26 03:41:34 PM

FlashHarry: right - but has it ever been a "rising tide that lifts all boats" as it has been sold to the american people over the past 30 years?


Speaking as a 42 year member of the American Lower-Middle Class, I'm going to say, "No." : )
 
2013-12-26 03:45:11 PM

FlashHarry: i mean, keynesian theory has worked in practice - just witness the three-decade post WWII boom. but is there an equivalent example for the other side?


Nope. Iceland, in fact, is a smoldering example of it not working. They've been undoing the damage since the 2008 crash by going back to Keynesian economics and they've recovered faster than any other country.
 
2013-12-26 03:47:04 PM

keylock71: whidbey: keylock71: RminusQ: Is Paul Ryan a communist?

He's something far worse... An ideologue.

Which isn't such a bad thing. Depends on what you believe.

Eh... Ideologues don't act based on the world as it exists around them, but rather, based on how they want the world to be and assuming most everyone will agree with them. It doesn't matter whether I agree with them or not. You can justify just about anything when you view the world like that.


whidbey: Someone should have cockpunched that guy all the way back to Germany or whatever hellhole he was borne of.

You'll get no argument from me on that one... The man was pure filth.


He'll, Kissinger cannot travel to a lot of countries thanks to Hitchens. shiatbag should have been bound and gagged and left at the step of The Hague.
 
2013-12-26 03:50:22 PM

whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: The Pope was not speaking solely about economic systems but calling for people on an individual level not to focus so much on self-validation through consumerism and material wealthy. It applies to billionaires and average people, too. We should not make accruing material things and money the focus of our lives.

Yeah right. A bit late for that, seeing as how we're this embarrassingly corporate consumerist nation who just celebrated a huge corporate consumerist holiday. Hypocrite, much?

Who, the Pope?

No, you, Francis. Are you really that unaware of the irony of your statement?


I'm a hypocrite, how?
 
2013-12-26 04:05:20 PM

Irving Maimway: Nope. Iceland, in fact, is a smoldering example of it not working. They've been undoing the damage since the 2008 crash by going back to Keynesian economics and they've recovered faster than any other country.


yeah - i figured supply-side economic theory died in september of 2008, but the 1 percenters are still pushing it like crazy.
 
2013-12-26 04:17:39 PM

Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: The Pope was not speaking solely about economic systems but calling for people on an individual level not to focus so much on self-validation through consumerism and material wealthy. It applies to billionaires and average people, too. We should not make accruing material things and money the focus of our lives.

Yeah right. A bit late for that, seeing as how we're this embarrassingly corporate consumerist nation who just celebrated a huge corporate consumerist holiday. Hypocrite, much?

Who, the Pope?

No, you, Francis. Are you really that unaware of the irony of your statement?

I'm a hypocrite, how?


Oh I see. I'm being funnend by the Southerner. You're so funny. Southern Humor.
 
2013-12-26 04:20:31 PM

whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: The Pope was not speaking solely about economic systems but calling for people on an individual level not to focus so much on self-validation through consumerism and material wealthy. It applies to billionaires and average people, too. We should not make accruing material things and money the focus of our lives.

Yeah right. A bit late for that, seeing as how we're this embarrassingly corporate consumerist nation who just celebrated a huge corporate consumerist holiday. Hypocrite, much?

Who, the Pope?

No, you, Francis. Are you really that unaware of the irony of your statement?

I'm a hypocrite, how?

Oh I see. I'm being funnend by the Southerner. You're so funny. Southern Humor.


I'm just trying to figure out what it whom you are biatching about.
 
2013-12-26 04:23:44 PM

FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?


This was ever in doubt?
 
2013-12-26 04:29:25 PM

Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: The Pope was not speaking solely about economic systems but calling for people on an individual level not to focus so much on self-validation through consumerism and material wealthy. It applies to billionaires and average people, too. We should not make accruing material things and money the focus of our lives.

Yeah right. A bit late for that, seeing as how we're this embarrassingly corporate consumerist nation who just celebrated a huge corporate consumerist holiday. Hypocrite, much?

Who, the Pope?

No, you, Francis. Are you really that unaware of the irony of your statement?

I'm a hypocrite, how?

Oh I see. I'm being funnend by the Southerner. You're so funny. Southern Humor.

I'm just trying to figure out what it whom you are biatching about.


Of course you are. Meanwhile another reply. Makes the exchange appear relevant.
 
2013-12-26 04:30:42 PM

Weaver95: FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?

This was ever in doubt?


i always thought religion was indivisible with republican politics. now i guess that the only part of religion they like to invoke is the anti-gay, anti-women, anti-abortion part. above all, their driving motivator is greed.
 
2013-12-26 04:36:30 PM

FlashHarry: Weaver95: FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?

This was ever in doubt?

i always thought religion was indivisible with republican politics. now i guess that the only part of religion they like to invoke is the anti-gay, anti-women, anti-abortion part. above all, their driving motivator is greed.


Once you understand that the GOP doesn't actually follow the Christian god their policies start to make sense. The god they follow is vicious, greedy and despises the weak. He cares only for power, and nothing for the sick or poor. The republicans took the biblical Jesus and remade him into a god that better suited their goals.
 
2013-12-26 04:41:15 PM

Weaver95: FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?

This was ever in doubt?


Some people still fail to grasp that party is religion.
 
2013-12-26 04:42:45 PM

Weaver95: The republicans took the biblical Jesus and remade him into a god that better suited their goals.


Like I said in another thread, it is a long standing human tradition to build new religions on top of the old ones, making them conform to your values accordingly.
 
2013-12-26 04:42:46 PM
Just about a week ago, the story was this:

Paul Ryan Finds God
How a backstage prayer in Cleveland and a new leader in the Vatican set the budget-slashing congressman on a mission to help the poor. "My bet is that he's on Pope Francis' team." Link
 
2013-12-26 04:43:11 PM

doyner: Weaver95: FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?

This was ever in doubt?

Some people still fail to grasp that party is religion.


It is. The REAL God stuff™ comes later. After Social Security is privatized. Along with water.
 
2013-12-26 04:45:48 PM

whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: The Pope was not speaking solely about economic systems but calling for people on an individual level not to focus so much on self-validation through consumerism and material wealthy. It applies to billionaires and average people, too. We should not make accruing material things and money the focus of our lives.

Yeah right. A bit late for that, seeing as how we're this embarrassingly corporate consumerist nation who just celebrated a huge corporate consumerist holiday. Hypocrite, much?

Who, the Pope?

No, you, Francis. Are you really that unaware of the irony of your statement?

I'm a hypocrite, how?

Oh I see. I'm being funnend by the Southerner. You're so funny. Southern Humor.

I'm just trying to figure out what it whom you are biatching about.

Of course you are. Meanwhile another reply. Makes the exchange appear relevant.


Merry Christmas to you, too, then. May your vagina be free of sand in the coming new year.
 
2013-12-26 04:46:26 PM

propasaurus: Just about a week ago, the story was this:

Paul Ryan Finds God
How a backstage prayer in Cleveland and a new leader in the Vatican set the budget-slashing congressman on a mission to help the poor. "My bet is that he's on Pope Francis' team." Link


Hypocrisy thrives on dueling narratives.
 
2013-12-26 04:48:30 PM

whidbey: Oh I see. I'm being funnend by the Southerner. You're so funny. Southern Humor.


Really, dude?  We've discussed this. Beware of the regionalist attitude that only sharpens the devide you find so distasteful.
 
2013-12-26 04:49:32 PM
interesting. 55 posts and still no red/green. i wonder what the modmins are waiting for.
 
2013-12-26 04:51:41 PM

FlashHarry: interesting. 55 posts and still no red/green. i wonder what the modmins are waiting for.


Today is unusual.  They'll pick a green out of the black and make it almost instant.  It's almost like they have lives and families and stuff.
 
2013-12-26 04:52:08 PM
Wasn't it just a few days ago that Ryan was going to be the hope of the GOP?
 
2013-12-26 04:56:54 PM

doyner: whidbey: Oh I see. I'm being funnend by the Southerner. You're so funny. Southern Humor.

Really, dude?  We've discussed this. Beware of the regionalist attitude that only sharpens the devide you find so distasteful.


Pfft. Like you've never trolled a troll before.

Oh and Kiss mah grits.
 
2013-12-26 04:57:36 PM

spongeboob: Wasn't it just a few days ago that Ryan was going to be the hope of the GOP?


No. A few days ago was when Paul Ryan was the Judas who betrayed the GOP (by agreeing to a budget compromise with Senator Patty Murray).
 
2013-12-26 05:00:30 PM

Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: whidbey: Nabb1: The Pope was not speaking solely about economic systems but calling for people on an individual level not to focus so much on self-validation through consumerism and material wealthy. It applies to billionaires and average people, too. We should not make accruing material things and money the focus of our lives.

Yeah right. A bit late for that, seeing as how we're this embarrassingly corporate consumerist nation who just celebrated a huge corporate consumerist holiday. Hypocrite, much?

Who, the Pope?

No, you, Francis. Are you really that unaware of the irony of your statement?

I'm a hypocrite, how?

Oh I see. I'm being funnend by the Southerner. You're so funny. Southern Humor.

I'm just trying to figure out what it whom you are biatching about.

Of course you are. Meanwhile another reply. Makes the exchange appear relevant.

Merry Christmas to you, too, then. May your vagina be free of sand in the coming new year.


You were supposed to yeah "yeah that really sucks about us Americans, that we're so consumer-driven and that in fact we do seek material wealth above all. This past Christmas is yet another reminder
The Pope is right."

But NOOOOOOOOO. You had to play Fark Independent™ even for that.

//Merry Christmas to you too, Nabb
 
2013-12-26 05:01:03 PM

whidbey: Pfft. Like you've never trolled a troll before.

Oh and Kiss mah grits.


You know me...sort of.  Yes, I troll trolls...but dude, I think you need a sabbatical to Mississippi to uncover the real truth.  It ain't the southerners per se, it's that the south magnifies the divides in our nation.  It's Ground Zero, if you will.  It's where the good fight is really fought.
 
2013-12-26 05:18:27 PM

doyner: whidbey: Pfft. Like you've never trolled a troll before.

Oh and Kiss mah grits.

You know me...sort of.  Yes, I troll trolls...but dude, I think you need a sabbatical to Mississippi to uncover the real truth.  It ain't the southerners per se, it's that the south magnifies the divides in our nation.  It's Ground Zero, if you will.  It's where the good fight is really fought.


We have our own version of it up here, trust me. Just head out to the West End near Forks and keep driving on south 101.
 
2013-12-26 05:19:29 PM

whidbey: doyner: whidbey: Pfft. Like you've never trolled a troll before.

Oh and Kiss mah grits.

You know me...sort of.  Yes, I troll trolls...but dude, I think you need a sabbatical to Mississippi to uncover the real truth.  It ain't the southerners per se, it's that the south magnifies the divides in our nation.  It's Ground Zero, if you will.  It's where the good fight is really fought.

We have our own version of it up here, trust me. Just head out to the West End near Forks and keep driving on south 101.


Perhaps, but you don't have the rest of the country rubbing it in your face all the time.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-12-26 05:36:51 PM

Doctor Funkenstein: There's your problem, Republicans.  Leave your farking religion out of politics.  I think the founding fathers that you like to stroke yourselves to so much offered some guidance on that notion


But that makes controlling the electorate more difficult.

People literally don't realize the whole anti-Gay, anti-abortion agenda is nothing more than a technique to manipulate Christians to vote for non-"liberal" candidates.  If forces Christians to choose conservative candidates.  That's why the Pope says to give up the obsession with homosexuality.  The bible teaches against standing in judgment of others.

If Christians were really on board with their religion, they would be protesting adulterers and voting against men and women who have cheated on their spouses.  When is the last time you've seen protests against adulterers?  Yet, God's ban on adultery made the big ten of sins, along with murder, in the 10 commandments.  You don't hear the conservatives beating the drum against adultery because adultery is committed by both "liberals" and conservatives and it wouldn't result in political division.
 
2013-12-26 05:38:02 PM
I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.
 
2013-12-26 05:38:44 PM

NFA: Of course Paul Ryan has tried to claim his following of Ayn Rand is nothing but Urban legend.  Which of course is a huge lie.


I recall a thread where some Fark headline made fun of Ryan being a Randroid.  One of our usual Fark Independents came screaming into the thread calling the submitter and anyone who got a chuckle out of it a lying scumbag.

He then proceeded to respond to nearly every post in the thread EXCEPT the ones directly quoting Paul Ryan (including a speech he made to The Atlas Society) about how much Ayn Rand has influenced his life.  Then started a completely off-topic rant about Indian Reservations, and chided anyone who didn't want to talk about Indian Reservations was "changing the subject."

Trolling?  Performance Art?  Sincere denial?  Either way, it was hilariously pathetic to watch.
 
2013-12-26 05:39:21 PM

Weaver95: I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.


If thesee people were discomforted by cognitive dissonance there wouldn't be these people.
 
2013-12-26 05:41:29 PM
So its okay to be Catholic and disagree about things like social justice and the death penalty?

What other Church doctrines can I completely disregard and still be considered Catholic?

/ex-Catholic.
 
2013-12-26 05:42:14 PM

doyner: Weaver95: I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.

If thesee people were discomforted by cognitive dissonance there wouldn't be these people.


Yeah but the church will eventually excommunicate his heretical ass if he keeps it up.
 
2013-12-26 05:46:07 PM

Weaver95: doyner: Weaver95: I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.

If thesee people were discomforted by cognitive dissonance there wouldn't be these people.

Yeah but the church will eventually excommunicate his heretical ass if he keeps it up.


I'm calling bullshiat on that one. When was the last time they excommunicated an American politician?
 
2013-12-26 05:46:59 PM

FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?


Modern Republicans worship Republicanism. They are not Christians (well, most of them).
 
2013-12-26 05:47:45 PM

doyner: Weaver95: doyner: Weaver95: I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.

If thesee people were discomforted by cognitive dissonance there wouldn't be these people.

Yeah but the church will eventually excommunicate his heretical ass if he keeps it up.

I'm calling bullshiat on that one. When was the last time they excommunicated an American politician?


I honestly don't know....but I think I would avoid putting this pope to the test. Jesuits are kind of hard cases when it comes to this sort of thing.
 
2013-12-26 05:47:51 PM
I recommend watching Park Avenue. Ryan and Rand get their scrutiny. Dems get their share of criticism as well.
 
2013-12-26 05:49:41 PM

keylock71: whidbey: keylock71: RminusQ: Is Paul Ryan a communist?

He's something far worse... An ideologue.

Which isn't such a bad thing. Depends on what you believe.

Eh... Ideologues don't act based on the world as it exists around them, but rather, based on how they want the world to be and assuming most everyone will agree with them. It doesn't matter whether I agree with them or not. You can justify just about anything when you view the world like that.


whidbey: Someone should have cockpunched that guy all the way back to Germany or whatever hellhole he was borne of.

You'll get no argument from me on that one... The man was pure filth.


Was?
 
2013-12-26 05:51:31 PM

whidbey: Irving Maimway: Ayn Rand's father should have pulled out.

Wouldn't have worked.

Some other asshole would take her place.


photos1.blogger.com
Forgot the pic, whidbey
 
2013-12-26 05:51:33 PM

FlashHarry:


The fact that those photos are real flabbergasts me every time.
 
2013-12-26 05:51:48 PM
Yet another pearl of wisdom from Vice President Dudebro.
 
2013-12-26 05:53:54 PM
Must be fun to try and shoehorn the doctrine of Ayn Rand into the Catholic faith.
 
2013-12-26 05:54:32 PM
Dammit. I knew I should have bought popcorn futures.
 
2013-12-26 05:54:47 PM

FlashHarry: Irving Maimway: Nope. Iceland, in fact, is a smoldering example of it not working. They've been undoing the damage since the 2008 crash by going back to Keynesian economics and they've recovered faster than any other country.

yeah - i figured supply-side economic theory died in september of 2008, but the 1 percenters are still pushing it like crazy.


Though if you ask True Believers they'll just tell you any failures were due to them not supply-siding HARD ENOUGH. The thinking involved is cult-like.
 
2013-12-26 05:56:14 PM
Sounds like Paul forgot his catechisms.

The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with "communism" or "socialism." She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of "capitalism," individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor.207 Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for "there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market."208 Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.
 
2013-12-26 05:57:49 PM

whidbey: Irving Maimway: Ayn Rand's father should have pulled out.

Wouldn't have worked.

Some other asshole would take her place.


I dunno. Objectivism doesn't seem all that strongly implied by the actual world we inhabit. It may have just never come to be without this particular charismatic crazy person.
 
2013-12-26 05:58:41 PM
Did he really just call a Jesuit uneducated?
 
2013-12-26 06:01:48 PM
i47.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-26 06:03:08 PM

Weaver95: doyner: Weaver95: doyner: Weaver95: I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.

If thesee people were discomforted by cognitive dissonance there wouldn't be these people.

Yeah but the church will eventually excommunicate his heretical ass if he keeps it up.

I'm calling bullshiat on that one. When was the last time they excommunicated an American politician?

I honestly don't know....but I think I would avoid putting this pope to the test. Jesuits are kind of hard cases when it comes to this sort of thing.


Here you go...list of excommunications

They've never done any big name.

Not following Rome as an American Roman Catholic is  pretty much expected by the rest of the Roman Catholic World.  They appreciate the money, but they will never allow an United States Cardinal ever to be a Pope.
 
2013-12-26 06:06:32 PM
We must speak of man's rights. Man has the right to live. He has the right to bodily integrity and to the means necessary for the proper development of life, particularly food, clothing, shelter, medical care, rest, and, finally, the necessary social services. In consequence, he has the right to be looked after in the event of illhealth; disability stemming from his work; widowhood; old age; enforced unemployment; or whenever through no fault of his own he is deprived of the means of livelihood.

-Pope John XXIII

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_xxiii/encyclicals/documents/h f_ j-xxiii_enc_11041963_pacem_en.html

The right to medical care? The right to food? What sort of hippie socialist talks that way?
 
2013-12-26 06:08:20 PM
So I'm supposed to be surprised when a republican says something that goes against the principles of his religion in the name of conservatism?
 
2013-12-26 06:09:03 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

Once again, Jello was right.
 
2013-12-26 06:09:28 PM
Well its not that the Pope is preaching about economic theory, he was just repeating common grievances about excess.once the Pope pushes his Pope-folio then we have problems.
 
2013-12-26 06:11:15 PM

Fart_Machine: Must be fun to try and shoehorn the doctrine of Ayn Rand into the Catholic faith.


It's like trying to shove a full-grown cactus up your rectum.
 
2013-12-26 06:11:50 PM
Believing in God is just what you tell your voters. This is it, get yours and get enough for your family to live in luxury for generations.
 
2013-12-26 06:13:16 PM
And Paul Ryan looked back and said to the Lord, "during the hardest times there are only one set of footprints, where were you."  Supply-side Jesus turned to Ryan and said, "during the hardest times, I was the bootstraps you pulled yourself up with.  Now lets get our crunch on, P90X!"
 
2013-12-26 06:13:23 PM
Always remember that Mr. Ryan is the GOP expert on budgets and revenue/spending plans.

Now that you're throwing up all over your monitor I'll apologize.
 
2013-12-26 06:17:00 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Look at that: a genuine Cafeteria Catholic


Well, a bread line Catholic.

Wait, no, that's too socialistic.  More like a bucket of slop in a debtor's prison Catholic.
 
2013-12-26 06:19:46 PM

keylock71: unyon: Argentina got full-dosage Friedman Chicago school capitalism.

Courtesy of Henry Kissenger, the U.S. Congress, and Ronald Reagan...

"Look, our basic attitude is that we would like you to succeed. I have an old-fashioned view that friends ought to be supported. What is not understood in the United States is that you have a civil war. We read about human rights problems but not the context. The quicker you succeed the better... " -Henry Kissenger in support of the Argentina Military Junta, 1976


You know, Kissenger at least did his policy in the name of realist national security. I can respect that. Ryan read some shiatty novel and bases his worldview on it without actually having any experience. For the effectiveness of that Hag's bullshiat, look to the moron who destroyed Sears.
 
2013-12-26 06:21:25 PM

super_grass: Well its not that the Pope is preaching about economic theory, he was just repeating common grievances about excess.once the Pope pushes his Pope-folio then we have problems.


So when he said, flat out, that trickle-down economics don't work, he was just airing grievances?
 
2013-12-26 06:23:15 PM
Dear Bible: Is money good or bad?

*Shakes the holy 8-ball*

Money is the answer to all of life's problems.
A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
Ecclesiastes 10:19

Money is the source of all evil.
For the love of money is the root of all evil.
 Timothy 6:10

But of course, the bible cannot have been written to support whatever views that are needed to enforce your lifestyle.
 
2013-12-26 06:34:09 PM
I thoroughly despise the Pope and all Catholics for being the biggest hypocrites of any organized religion (at least the Mormons are sincere in their money-grubbing & God-bless-America actions), the fact is that I recognize that the Pope knows more about everything than Paul Ryan knows about anything.  And here's the best part- Ryan was within a few percentage points of being "a heartbeat away from the Presidency of the United States", as they say.  And even funnier- you people (R and D) still think you will find good leaders and vote them in and everything will get better.  Just amazing.  Politics is like a tesseract of stupidity and you're a part of it.
 
2013-12-26 06:34:28 PM
I applaud both His Holiness Pope Francis, and Paul Ryan for revealing what truly matters to Republicans when its comes to religion...

MONEY

The Republican Party under the kind and benevolent shepherding of the Tea Party has come to realize that God's true followers are blessed based upon how well they can exploit 30 years of blaming and simultaneously exploiting the American middle and lower class to generate obscene profits and record low tax rates for their fellow blessed.

Obviously His Holiness could never be referring to his own experiences seeing massive income inequality in his native South America. He must of course be referring to the filthy indulgent behaviors of those ungodly "moochers" living in their serene favelas wallowing in the luxuries provided by taxing the godly working people just trying to get by on a measly few hundred grand a year.

Surely the Pope realizes that here in the United States, the godly, the blessed, and their hundreds of billions of dollars in hard earned/inherited money are under attack by these same forces that would use the evil that is secular government to deprive them of these funds. Furthermore they would use these funds for such ungodly purposes such as family planning, treatment of disease, and performing the terrible sin of raising themselves out of poverty.

Jesus was poor, so these people are actually trying to not be like Jesus. Can't you see Your Holiness? Won't you please deliver the truly worthy to the paradise of infinite cheap labor and tax free profits?
 
2013-12-26 06:36:10 PM
"Look, Jesus is entitled to his opinion, but he has no right to ask me or any of these other sellers to leave the temple, I've been selling pigeons here for years, I've worked hard to establish a loyal customer base here. That's what a free market means, we get to use this temple just like everybody else. Plus, the guy is from Nazareth, they haven't had a real barter economy in Nazareth, their markets are all thieves selling stolen goods, that's where the phrase "Nazareth market" comes from, you know. But we're respectable businessmen, so he can't ask us to leave. But what I do love about this Jesus guy, even though he sounds kinda liberal, is that he's triggering the exact kind of dialogue we ought to be having."
 
2013-12-26 06:39:36 PM

Irving Maimway: FlashHarry: i mean, keynesian theory has worked in practice - just witness the three-decade post WWII boom. but is there an equivalent example for the other side?

Nope. Iceland, in fact, is a smoldering example of it not working. They've been undoing the damage since the 2008 crash by going back to Keynesian economics and they've recovered faster than any other country.


As I understand it, when TSHTF there, and they had a decision to make, bail out the banks with gubmint money, or tell the bankers to fark off, they told the bankers to fark off.  And their recovery started pretty much instantly.
 
2013-12-26 06:43:58 PM
Weaver95:
Once you understand that the GOP doesn't actually follow the Christian god their policies start to make sense. The god they follow is vicious, greedy and despises the weak. He cares only for power, and nothing for the sick or poor. The republicans took the biblical Jesus and remade him into a god that better suited their goals.

I've always believed there's a very powerful reason why Republicans are so obsessed with maintaining a steady supply of both virgins and babies.

thetheisticsatanist.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-26 06:44:54 PM

FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?


Of course. "Striving with political men may make the cause political, not by what they do but by who they are." T.S. Eliot, that radical he.
 
2013-12-26 06:47:58 PM

HEY, PAUL!


31.media.tumblr.com

 
2013-12-26 06:50:59 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Dear Bible: Is money good or bad?

*Shakes the holy 8-ball*

Money is the answer to all of life's problems.
A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
Ecclesiastes 10:19

Money is the source of all evil.
For the love of money is the root of all evil.
 Timothy 6:10

But of course, the bible cannot have been written to support whatever views that are needed to enforce your lifestyle.


Old Testament
New Testament

You must be a Republican, to be so ignorant about the Bible.
 
2013-12-26 06:53:45 PM
lol, Ryan just let God know which side he's on.  Good for you, Ryan.  Don't let eternal damnation stand between you and corporate politics!

/got to admire a man that stares into the abyss and decides he might as well live it up in the here and now.
 
2013-12-26 06:55:23 PM

abb3w: (Also, it was Toomey who said pope Frankie was "entitled to his opinion", but that's a minor detail.)


That doesn't shock me in the slightest. Toomey has been pretty open about being a whore for Club For Growth and other similar interests since he ran for office back in 2010.
 
2013-12-26 06:56:52 PM
Praise Mammon.
 
2013-12-26 06:57:33 PM

KeatingFive: Darth_Lukecash: Dear Bible: Is money good or bad?

*Shakes the holy 8-ball*

Money is the answer to all of life's problems.
A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
Ecclesiastes 10:19

Money is the source of all evil.
For the love of money is the root of all evil.
 Timothy 6:10

But of course, the bible cannot have been written to support whatever views that are needed to enforce your lifestyle.

Old Testament
New Testament

You must be a Republican, to be so ignorant about the Bible.


Strange, I'm a atheist democrat.

And raised catholic, the old and New Testament are part of that funny little work of fiction called the bible.
 
2013-12-26 06:58:12 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Dear Bible: Is money good or bad?

*Shakes the holy 8-ball*

Money is the answer to all of life's problems.
A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
Ecclesiastes 10:19

Money is the source of all evil.
For the love of money is the root of all evil.
 Timothy 6:10

But of course, the bible cannot have been written to support whatever views that are needed to enforce your lifestyle.


It also might have something to do with one being from the OT and the other the NT. They contradict each other quite regularly.
 
2013-12-26 07:02:03 PM

RexTalionis: spongeboob: Wasn't it just a few days ago that Ryan was going to be the hope of the GOP?

No. A few days ago was when Paul Ryan was the Judas who betrayed the GOP (by agreeing to a budget compromise with Senator Patty Murray).


I thought the moderates the country club GOP and many pundits were saying this proved Ryan was the one to watch in 2014. I actually heard this on NPR I think On point but could have been Talk of the Nation.
 
2013-12-26 07:03:14 PM

FlashHarry: serious question: has trickle-down theory ever worked in practice? i know that niall ferguson likes to cite chile, but is this valid?


You might ask the Chileans about that.  I would call Bachelet's (about as socialist as you get) reelection a repudiation.
 
2013-12-26 07:07:39 PM
i306.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-26 07:08:50 PM

Irving Maimway: Ayn Rand's father should have pulled out.


...I am loving that Republican idealogues who are ostensibly Christian are rejecting the words of the Pope in favor of the words of a Russian atheist.
 
2013-12-26 07:11:16 PM
The Freakanomics guys interviewed Pope Francis' economic advisor this week, who spoke about Francis' views and his recent statement on economics which has got the usual waterheads all in a tizzy. I'm confident that Pope Francis has a better understanding of economics in general - and capitalism specifically - than Paul Ryan would be able to achieve with 1,000 years of study.

And way to be condescending to the Pope, supposedly catholic guy. If Paul Ryan wanted to be any douchier he'd have to sleep in a kiddy pool filled with vinegar.
 
2013-12-26 07:12:53 PM

KeatingFive: Darth_Lukecash: Dear Bible: Is money good or bad?

*Shakes the holy 8-ball*

Money is the answer to all of life's problems.
A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
Ecclesiastes 10:19

Money is the source of all evil.
For the love of money is the root of all evil.
 Timothy 6:10

But of course, the bible cannot have been written to support whatever views that are needed to enforce your lifestyle.

Old Testament
New Testament

You must be a Republican, to be so ignorant about the Bible.


Hey, look, another New Testament line:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. ~Matthew 5:17

Meanwhile, that line about gays being an abomination? Old Testament.

You must be a Republican, to be so ignorant about the Bible...
 
2013-12-26 07:13:15 PM

mongbiohazard: The Freakanomics guys interviewed Pope Francis' economic advisor this week, who spoke about Francis' views and his recent statement on economics which has got the usual waterheads all in a tizzy. I'm confident that Pope Francis has a better understanding of economics in general - and capitalism specifically - than Paul Ryan would be able to achieve with 1,000 years of study.

And way to be condescending to the Pope, supposedly catholic guy. If Paul Ryan wanted to be any douchier he'd have to sleep in a kiddy pool filled with vinegar.


I'd love to see that interview. Was it on their blog?
 
2013-12-26 07:13:30 PM

mongbiohazard: I'm confident that Pope Francis has a better understanding of economics in general - and capitalism specifically - almost any conceivable topic than Paul Ryan would be able to achieve with 1,000 years of study.


FTFY


/I'm sure Ryan knows more about being a dick
 
2013-12-26 07:15:52 PM

Darth_Lukecash: KeatingFive: Darth_Lukecash: Dear Bible: Is money good or bad?

*Shakes the holy 8-ball*

Money is the answer to all of life's problems.
A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
Ecclesiastes 10:19

Money is the source of all evil.
For the love of money is the root of all evil.
 Timothy 6:10

But of course, the bible cannot have been written to support whatever views that are needed to enforce your lifestyle.

Old Testament
New Testament

You must be a Republican, to be so ignorant about the Bible.

Strange, I'm a atheist democrat.

And raised catholic, the old and New Testament are part of that funny little work of fiction called the bible.


Forget it Tim. Once farkers go into mouth foam mode they'll attack anyone in their vincinity.
 
2013-12-26 07:22:11 PM

FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?


meh - he isnt a real Catholic. He only has 3 kids. 
So either his wife isnt getting any or they have left the church and are using birth control.

/HEY - I was told that catholics didnt use BC.
 
2013-12-26 07:22:47 PM

grumpfuff: mongbiohazard: I'm confident that Pope Francis has a better understanding of economics in general - and capitalism specifically - almost any conceivable topic than Paul Ryan would be able to achieve with 1,000 years of study.

FTFY


/I'm sure Ryan knows more about being a dick


I initially read your slashie as he knows more about sucking a dick. It's probably true strangely.
 
2013-12-26 07:25:42 PM

FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?


No, no.

The party IS the religion.
 
2013-12-26 07:26:54 PM
grumpfuff:
/I'm sure Ryan knows more about being a dick


Knows... he could teach classes!
 
2013-12-26 07:31:23 PM
I could have sworn that someone in the bible said "the love of money is the root of all evil".  The Pope being, well, the Pope may have finally called the Republicans on their stance of proclaimed religious piety while trying to consolidate wealth and power to only the super rich through trickle down economics.  The worst ones I can remember are out of Wisconsin with Governor Walker and attempted VP Paul Ryan.  After the description of Ayn Rand's work and some passages elsewhere, as a philosopher, I could enjoy it for intellectual discourse and cognitive dissonance as held by people like Ryan.  However, such people are terrifying should they wield power, much like Ryan who has such high aspirations for his friends and family, but disdain for anyone worse off.
 
2013-12-26 07:33:07 PM
If there's anyone who understands the need for capital in the form of buildings, staff, and bureaucracies it's the Catholic Church.
 
2013-12-26 07:40:01 PM

Weaver95: doyner: Weaver95: I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.

If thesee people were discomforted by cognitive dissonance there wouldn't be these people.

Yeah but the church will eventually excommunicate his heretical ass if he keeps it up.

That will be a long ways off, he has nothing to worry about the olde-style Bishops in the US overall and in WI.  He will not be denied communion or called out by his local bishops anytime soon.
 
2013-12-26 07:42:24 PM

Serious Black: mongbiohazard: The Freakanomics guys interviewed Pope Francis' economic advisor this week, who spoke about Francis' views and his recent statement on economics which has got the usual waterheads all in a tizzy. I'm confident that Pope Francis has a better understanding of economics in general - and capitalism specifically - than Paul Ryan would be able to achieve with 1,000 years of study.

And way to be condescending to the Pope, supposedly catholic guy. If Paul Ryan wanted to be any douchier he'd have to sleep in a kiddy pool filled with vinegar.

I'd love to see that interview. Was it on their blog?


It was a podcast of theirs from last week. Last Thursday's if memory serves. Planet Money, Freakonomics and Tank Riot are podcasts I keep up with weekly.
 
2013-12-26 07:42:38 PM
super_grass:

Forget it Tim. Once farkers go into mouth foam mode they'll attack anyone in their vincinity.


Well, let's see see what our magic Bible says

*Shakes the holy 8 Ball*


Are the laws of the Old Testament still binding?

Yes, they are binding forever.

Matthew 5:18-19
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

No, Christians are not under the OT law.

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John [the Baptist]: since that time the kingdom of heaven is preached.

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 6:14
Ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 7:4, 6
Ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ .... We are delivered from the law, that being dead.

Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Galatians 3:13, 24-25
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law. (v.13)

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. (vv.24-25)

Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances ... nailing it to his cross.

Imagine that.  The New Testament contradicts itself as well...
 
2013-12-26 07:48:23 PM
"William Dohonue, the president of the Catholic League who is frequently presented on TV as the voice of American Catholics, offered a tepid defense of the pope against Limbaugh's criticism."

Who decided Dohonue is the voice of American Catholics?  78.2 million Catholic Americans (Wikipedia) are faithfully represented by this dude?  I figured he was Fox News coorespondent.
 
2013-12-26 07:49:47 PM
This pope is exposing the entire social control plan politicians like Ryan rely on.  They need to get people to be just greedy enough to want to work and support a system that favors wealth, but subdued enough by religion to leave the true excess to those in power (who don't believe any of it).

opiate, masses, soshaliszm, slashies

//
 
2013-12-26 07:56:03 PM

suckfest: "William Dohonue, the president of the Catholic League who is frequently presented on TV as the voice of American Catholics, offered a tepid defense of the pope against Limbaugh's criticism."

Who decided Dohonue is the voice of American Catholics?  78.2 million Catholic Americans (Wikipedia) are faithfully represented by this dude?  I figured he was Fox News coorespondent.


Anyone can set themselves up as anything; if you book enough tv appearances, you're the go-to guy. For example, I'm the world'd foremost expert on the worldwide Muppet conspiracy. So far no tv appearances, but some day....
 
2013-12-26 07:57:08 PM

Ned Stark: keylock71: whidbey: keylock71: RminusQ: Is Paul Ryan a communist?

He's something far worse... An ideologue.

Which isn't such a bad thing. Depends on what you believe.

Eh... Ideologues don't act based on the world as it exists around them, but rather, based on how they want the world to be and assuming most everyone will agree with them. It doesn't matter whether I agree with them or not. You can justify just about anything when you view the world like that.


whidbey: Someone should have cockpunched that guy all the way back to Germany or whatever hellhole he was borne of.

You'll get no argument from me on that one... The man was pure filth.

Was?


I know. I thought he was dead too. Like Jim Nabors.
 
2013-12-26 08:01:43 PM
Where's the Dalek Pope when you need him? Excommunicate!
 
2013-12-26 08:09:13 PM

Darth_Lukecash: ...Imagine that.  The New Testament contradicts itself as well...


Such quotes are terrifying, but your point is well-taken, but aren't most religious texts susceptible to contradictions without context?
 
kth
2013-12-26 08:14:14 PM

Weaver95: doyner: Weaver95: doyner: Weaver95: I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.

If thesee people were discomforted by cognitive dissonance there wouldn't be these people.

Yeah but the church will eventually excommunicate his heretical ass if he keeps it up.

I'm calling bullshiat on that one. When was the last time they excommunicated an American politician?

I honestly don't know....but I think I would avoid putting this pope to the test. Jesuits are kind of hard cases when it comes to this sort of thing.


To be fair, I don't think he was speaking ex cathedra. So it probably is not infallible.  It is right, but maybe not infallible. Of course, it could run afoul of earlier dogma.
 
2013-12-26 08:17:23 PM

harleyquinnical: Darth_Lukecash: ...Imagine that.  The New Testament contradicts itself as well...

Such quotes are terrifying, but your point is well-taken, but aren't most religious texts susceptible to contradictions without context?


Not if they're written by an all-knowing God.
 
2013-12-26 08:18:22 PM

harleyquinnical: Darth_Lukecash: ...Imagine that.  The New Testament contradicts itself as well...

Such quotes are terrifying, but your point is well-taken, but aren't most religious texts susceptible to contradictions without context?


All religions have contradictions. After all, they are created by humans.

But the problem is, that most people are really use the quotes to bolster their viewpoints.

Like Hitler...

"I have followed [the Church] in giving our party program the
character of unalterable finality, like the Creed. The Church has
never allowed the Creed to be interfered with. It is fifteen hundred
years since it was formulated, but every suggestion for its
amendment, every logical criticism, or attack on it, has been
rejected. The Church has realized that anything and everything can be
built up on a document of that sort, no matter how contradictory or
irreconcilable with it. The faithful will swallow it whole, so long
as logical reasoning is never allowed to be brought to bear on it."


[Adolf Hitler, from Rauschning, _The Voice of Destruction_, pp. 239-40]
 
2013-12-26 08:22:24 PM

Ed Grubermann: harleyquinnical: Darth_Lukecash: ...Imagine that.  The New Testament contradicts itself as well...

Such quotes are terrifying, but your point is well-taken, but aren't most religious texts susceptible to contradictions without context?

Not if they're written by an all-knowing God.


I don't know who is running God's office, but various translations should not have been allowed to happen.

Can of worms. It's open.

I also have to side with the Pope. Mega church evangelical wannabes don't have a city state. That's power.
 
2013-12-26 08:29:35 PM

Sliding Carp: Irving Maimway: FlashHarry: i mean, keynesian theory has worked in practice - just witness the three-decade post WWII boom. but is there an equivalent example for the other side?

Nope. Iceland, in fact, is a smoldering example of it not working. They've been undoing the damage since the 2008 crash by going back to Keynesian economics and they've recovered faster than any other country.

As I understand it, when TSHTF there, and they had a decision to make, bail out the banks with gubmint money, or tell the bankers to fark off, they told the bankers to fark off.  And their recovery started pretty much instantly.


And they gave money directly to home owners to help make up the difference between their mortgage and the new value. Also they put bankers in jail. Pretty much the opposite of what we did. You can compare their results to ours for an idea of what might work better in the future. Not that anyone in government here cares.
 
2013-12-26 08:41:45 PM

Ed Grubermann: Not if they're written by an all-knowing God.


Love this sarcasm, but is it not also a matter of whether God is loving, benevolent or malevolent as to determine Its nature?

Darth_Lukecash: All religions have contradictions. After all, they are created by humans.

But the problem is, that most people are really use the quotes to bolster their viewpoints...


Of course they will not only bolster their own viewpoint but also dismiss or ignore the opposition; such is propaganda.
 
2013-12-26 08:44:37 PM

keylock71: "The guy is from Argentina, they haven't had real capitalism in Argentina," Ryan said. "They have crony capitalism in Argentina. They don't have a true free enterprise system."

Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?


uhhhhh what?
 
2013-12-26 08:46:36 PM
The gospel according to the GOP?

s10.postimg.org
 
2013-12-26 08:50:06 PM

FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?


As it should be.  Politics, law and party before religion.
 
2013-12-26 08:51:29 PM
Republicans are desperately scrabbling for facts to defend their politics, but pope is pushing emotional buttons

And when its emotions vs rational debate, guess which side wins every time.

Republicans consistently and conspicuously on wrong side of the debate, wrong side of history - Same sex marriage, concern for people at bottom, and now, even christianity
 
2013-12-26 08:57:22 PM
So is Paul Ryan going to be denied communion for denying the teachings of the church, just like the Catholic politicians that went against the church regarding abortion?
 
2013-12-26 09:10:01 PM

Serious Black: mongbiohazard: The Freakanomics guys interviewed Pope Francis' economic advisor this week, who spoke about Francis' views and his recent statement on economics which has got the usual waterheads all in a tizzy. I'm confident that Pope Francis has a better understanding of economics in general - and capitalism specifically - than Paul Ryan would be able to achieve with 1,000 years of study.

And way to be condescending to the Pope, supposedly catholic guy. If Paul Ryan wanted to be any douchier he'd have to sleep in a kiddy pool filled with vinegar.

I'd love to see that interview. Was it on their blog?



Here, I just found a link to it for you. You can read it, listen to it or read it while listening. :)
 
2013-12-26 09:11:05 PM

Chameleon: So is Paul Ryan going to be denied communion for denying the teachings of the church, just like the Catholic politicians that went against the church regarding abortion?


No, 'cause the current pope has stated that witholding communion as 'punishment' for wrong views is abhorrent, and that communion is supposed to be about *healing*, not a cudgel to use as punishment.

(He DID kick the bishop that was pulling that shiat out of a pretty high up role, though)
 
2013-12-26 09:12:41 PM
I'll light a candle in Pope Francis' name if he excommunicates Paul Ryan.
 
2013-12-26 09:17:48 PM
Paul Ryan is the 80s movie douchebag villain incarnate.
Sweep the leg. Attempt to date rape the girl. All that jive.

To do evil is his religion.
 
2013-12-26 09:20:32 PM

Felgraf: Chameleon: So is Paul Ryan going to be denied communion for denying the teachings of the church, just like the Catholic politicians that went against the church regarding abortion?

No, 'cause the current pope has stated that witholding communion as 'punishment' for wrong views is abhorrent, and that communion is supposed to be about *healing*, not a cudgel to use as punishment.

(He DID kick the bishop that was pulling that shiat out of a pretty high up role, though)


Raymond Burke.

http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/pope-francis-rem ov es-former-st-louis-archbishop-burke-from-congregation/article_d6c5783d -456a-54fb-b230-81cedbd39d2b.html

I liked Francis before, but when he decided to kick Burke out of that role, my man-crush for Pope Francis got even bigger.

It couldn't have happened to anyone more deserving. He was our Archbishop here in St. Louis for quite a while before Benedict decided to promote him and his idiotic tactics of trying to make a culture war issue out of everything so mundane and innocuous (like refusing to attend a hospital fundraiser just because Sheryl Crow was performing and she's pro-choice), had a large part in making me a very lapsed Catholic. I imagine there are a lot of people in St. Louis who are the same way.
 
2013-12-26 09:21:26 PM

Ed Grubermann: harleyquinnical: Darth_Lukecash: ...Imagine that.  The New Testament contradicts itself as well...

Such quotes are terrifying, but your point is well-taken, but aren't most religious texts susceptible to contradictions without context?

Not if they're written by an all-knowing God.


All knowing God? An all knowing God who's constantly pissed off at his creations and has to constantly kill them all? If Mankind was a science project, God wouldn't even get a passing grade.
 
2013-12-26 09:21:34 PM

Weatherkiss: I'll light a candle in Pope Francis' name if he excommunicates Paul Ryan.


Or an auto da fe where he has to pull a quacking duck toy around Congress.
 
2013-12-26 09:26:31 PM

Weaver95: doyner: Weaver95: doyner: Weaver95: I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.

If thesee people were discomforted by cognitive dissonance there wouldn't be these people.

Yeah but the church will eventually excommunicate his heretical ass if he keeps it up.

I'm calling bullshiat on that one. When was the last time they excommunicated an American politician?

I honestly don't know....but I think I would avoid putting this pope to the test. Jesuits are kind of hard cases when it comes to this sort of thing.


I'll answer this: never. Not ever has the Church excommunicated an American politician and it's not likely to happen anytime soon.
 
2013-12-26 09:27:22 PM

whidbey: Weatherkiss: I'll light a candle in Pope Francis' name if he excommunicates Paul Ryan.

Or an auto da fe where he has to pull a quacking duck toy around Congress.


I'd settle for a nun approaching the floor of congress with a ruler and whacking his knuckles with it several times.
 
2013-12-26 09:30:54 PM

whidbey: keylock71: whidbey: keylock71: RminusQ: Is Paul Ryan a communist?

He's something far worse... An ideologue.

Which isn't such a bad thing. Depends on what you believe.T

Eh... Ideologues don't act based on the world as it exists around them, but rather, based on how they want the world to be and assuming most everyone will agree with them. It doesn't matter whether I agree with them or not. You can justify just about anything when you view the world like that.

Not to turn this into a huge side-debate, but one could argue that MLK and other human rights activists didn't "act" based on the real world, but on the world they wanted to create.

I don't think that's a fair assessment.

For that matter, environmentalists and other activists could be accused of being "ideologues." The truth isn't always pretty or compatible with people's lifestyles.


It isn't that ideologues act on the world they want to create--that's the mark of an idealIST--it's the second part, that they assume everyone agrees with them, and that furthermore they and their cronies are empowered by virtue of the rightness of their vision to decide for everyone else.

King was an idealist, but he wasn't an ideologue in that he didn't assume a) that everyone agreed with him or b) that his ideal should prevail because his was the ONLY right vision. Idealists can be naive and annoying; but ideologues can be dangerous because of their belief that they have a lock on the Truth and nobody else does.
 
2013-12-26 09:31:12 PM

Weatherkiss: whidbey: Weatherkiss: I'll light a candle in Pope Francis' name if he excommunicates Paul Ryan.

Or an auto da fe where he has to pull a quacking duck toy around Congress.

I'd settle for a nun approaching the floor of congress with a ruler and whacking his knuckles with it several times.


It would be a comical visual, watching his speech falter as he notices this figure in black making its way closer and closer to the podium. Fark: over and over again.
 
2013-12-26 09:34:49 PM

Gyrfalcon: King was an idealist, but he wasn't an ideologue in that he didn't assume a) that everyone agreed with him or b) that his ideal should prevail because his was the ONLY right vision. Idealists can be naive and annoying; but ideologues can be dangerous because of their belief that they have a lock on the Truth and nobody else does.


I can't help but wonder just how fine of a line that is at times.
 
2013-12-26 09:38:24 PM

Weatherkiss: whidbey: Weatherkiss: I'll light a candle in Pope Francis' name if he excommunicates Paul Ryan.

Or an auto da fe where he has to pull a quacking duck toy around Congress.

I'd settle for a nun approaching the floor of congress with a ruler and whacking his knuckles with it several times.


Wheres Sister Mary Elephant when you need her?
 
2013-12-26 09:41:12 PM

whidbey: Gyrfalcon: King was an idealist, but he wasn't an ideologue in that he didn't assume a) that everyone agreed with him or b) that his ideal should prevail because his was the ONLY right vision. Idealists can be naive and annoying; but ideologues can be dangerous because of their belief that they have a lock on the Truth and nobody else does.

I can't help but wonder just how fine of a line that is at times.


Probably more of a mist.
 
2013-12-26 09:43:13 PM

Weatherkiss: I'll light a candle in Pope Francis' name if he excommunicates Paul Ryan.


Plant a tree in his name in Israel.

/Francis, not Ryan.
 
2013-12-26 09:44:39 PM

mongbiohazard: Serious Black: mongbiohazard: The Freakanomics guys interviewed Pope Francis' economic advisor this week, who spoke about Francis' views and his recent statement on economics which has got the usual waterheads all in a tizzy. I'm confident that Pope Francis has a better understanding of economics in general - and capitalism specifically - than Paul Ryan would be able to achieve with 1,000 years of study.

And way to be condescending to the Pope, supposedly catholic guy. If Paul Ryan wanted to be any douchier he'd have to sleep in a kiddy pool filled with vinegar.

I'd love to see that interview. Was it on their blog?


Here, I just found a link to it for you. You can read it, listen to it or read it while listening. :)


Thanks! I'll check it out tomorrow.
 
2013-12-26 09:51:28 PM
www.writtenword.com

Recommended reading.
 
2013-12-26 09:53:49 PM

Mugato: Ed Grubermann: harleyquinnical: Darth_Lukecash: ...Imagine that.  The New Testament contradicts itself as well...

Such quotes are terrifying, but your point is well-taken, but aren't most religious texts susceptible to contradictions without context?

Not if they're written by an all-knowing God.

All knowing God? An all knowing God who's constantly pissed off at his creations and has to constantly kill them all? If Mankind was a science project, God wouldn't even get a passing grade.


John Milton makes it sound like a really awesome sci fi movie...  I'm game for being an extra in a cosmic Science Fiction Drama.
 
2013-12-26 09:57:38 PM

fusillade762: [www.writtenword.com image 337x500]

Recommended reading.


Bart Ehrman is a brilliant scholar, and the Christian fundies should be forced to read his books.

Seriously, if you're even remotely interested in Christianity, especially early Christianity, go read some of his books. They're fascinating.
 
2013-12-26 09:58:24 PM

JosephFinn: FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?

As it should be.  Politics, law and party before religion.




Actually law should be paramount, followed by politics (The compromise), Party and then religion shouldn't even be a part of the equation.
 
2013-12-26 09:59:24 PM
Currently fantasizing about Paul Ryan being excommunicated. A man can dream...
 
2013-12-26 10:11:07 PM

Doctor Funkenstein: FTFA: Catholic Republican lawmakers are rattled by Pope Francis, whose recent comments have shaken up assumptions about their church and its relationship to their political party.

There's your problem, Republicans.  Leave your farking religion out of politics.  I think the founding fathers that you like to stroke yourselves to so much offered some guidance on that notion.


They are Catholic Dominionists. Politics is their religion. They believe, really believe, that God wants them to rule the world. It never occurred to them that God might put a Jesuit in charge. Part of being a Catholic Dominionist is respecting authority. So they are in quite the conundrum now.
 
2013-12-26 10:27:04 PM

unyon: keylock71: abb3w: keylock71: Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?

Yeah, that raised my eyebrows a bit.

If anything, the Argentinians most likely learned the finer points of Crony Capitalism from the United States...

Seems like the Pope has a much better grasp of Capitalism than Ryan does (providing Ryan actually believes the bullshiat that falls out of his mouth).

Argentina got full-dosage Friedman Chicago school capitalism.  They fully deregulated and let market forces dictate.  Today, they have 20% unemployment with 50% of the population below the poverty line.  That is precisely Ryan's prescription for the USA.  The upside?  The rich have become the super-rich, and the super-rich have become the ultra-rich.


So what about the ultra rich? Did they get tax cuts?
 
2013-12-26 10:27:34 PM

FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?


more like shilling for big corporations IS their religion
 
2013-12-26 10:33:48 PM

Bucky Katt: FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?

more like shilling for big corporations IS their religion


Yeah but corporatism is free enterprise.

Isn't it?
 
2013-12-26 10:35:45 PM

justaguy516: unyon: keylock71: abb3w: keylock71: Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?

Yeah, that raised my eyebrows a bit.

If anything, the Argentinians most likely learned the finer points of Crony Capitalism from the United States...

Seems like the Pope has a much better grasp of Capitalism than Ryan does (providing Ryan actually believes the bullshiat that falls out of his mouth).

Argentina got full-dosage Friedman Chicago school capitalism.  They fully deregulated and let market forces dictate.  Today, they have 20% unemployment with 50% of the population below the poverty line.  That is precisely Ryan's prescription for the USA.  The upside?  The rich have become the super-rich, and the super-rich have become the ultra-rich.

So what about the ultra rich? Did they get tax cuts?


They do if you know what's good for you.
 
2013-12-26 10:41:51 PM

soze: Did he really just call a Jesuit uneducated?


I missed that.  Yeah, it looks like he did. Heh.
 
2013-12-26 10:55:01 PM

Nabb1: Weaver95: doyner: Weaver95: doyner: Weaver95: I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.

If thesee people were discomforted by cognitive dissonance there wouldn't be these people.

Yeah but the church will eventually excommunicate his heretical ass if he keeps it up.

I'm calling bullshiat on that one. When was the last time they excommunicated an American politician?

I honestly don't know....but I think I would avoid putting this pope to the test. Jesuits are kind of hard cases when it comes to this sort of thing.

I'll answer this: never. Not ever has the Church excommunicated an American politician and it's not likely to happen anytime soon.


Give Pope Francis a chance.  He's blown off a lot of conventions.  If any Catholic authority would smack the pee-pee of an American politician,  it is him.
 
2013-12-26 10:55:17 PM

grumpfuff: fusillade762: [www.writtenword.com image 337x500]

Recommended reading.

Bart Ehrman is a brilliant scholar, and the Christian fundies should be forced to read his books.

Seriously, if you're even remotely interested in Christianity, especially early Christianity, go read some of his books. They're fascinating.


Reading "Jesus, Interrupted" right now. It would just kill fundamentalists if they were forced to read the Gospels not as the Holy Word of God but as stories written with specific purposes and even spin in mind. Or even to have to realize that the "story of Christmas" that we argue about every freaking year is actually a conflation of two entirely separate stories which have nothing in common and are in part mutually exclusive--except they are both nominally "about" the birth of Jesus.
 
2013-12-26 10:55:32 PM

whidbey: Bucky Katt: FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?

more like shilling for big corporations IS their religion

Yeah but corporatism is free enterprise.

Isn't it?


Pinochet and Friedman in Chile certainly thought so.
 
2013-12-26 10:55:33 PM

unyon: keylock71: abb3w: keylock71: Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?

Yeah, that raised my eyebrows a bit.

If anything, the Argentinians most likely learned the finer points of Crony Capitalism from the United States...

Seems like the Pope has a much better grasp of Capitalism than Ryan does (providing Ryan actually believes the bullshiat that falls out of his mouth).

Argentina got full-dosage Friedman Chicago school capitalism.  They fully deregulated and let market forces dictate.  Today, they have 20% unemployment with 50% of the population below the poverty line.  That is precisely Ryan's prescription for the USA.  The upside?  The rich have become the super-rich, and the super-rich have become the ultra-rich.


 tcdc2.undp.org
www.tradingeconomics.com
WAT
 
2013-12-26 11:10:14 PM
So a guy from the party that wants to keep religion in government doesn't understand his own religion? Makes sense to me, he doesn't understand the constitution either.
 
2013-12-26 11:10:53 PM

Gyrfalcon: grumpfuff: fusillade762: [www.writtenword.com image 337x500]

Recommended reading.

Bart Ehrman is a brilliant scholar, and the Christian fundies should be forced to read his books.

Seriously, if you're even remotely interested in Christianity, especially early Christianity, go read some of his books. They're fascinating.

Reading "Jesus, Interrupted" right now. It would just kill fundamentalists if they were forced to read the Gospels not as the Holy Word of God but as stories written with specific purposes and even spin in mind. Or even to have to realize that the "story of Christmas" that we argue about every freaking year is actually a conflation of two entirely separate stories which have nothing in common and are in part mutually exclusive--except they are both nominally "about" the birth of Jesus.


He is indeed pretty awesome. Not gonna lie, part of the reason I like him is that he pisses off both the fundies and the Atheists(as opposed to atheists) at the same time. His work is well researched, well thought out, and well put together, and it really pisses people off that they can't dismiss him with a wave of the hand. I've read books that were critical of him, and they're laughable. Fundies tend to oppose him with something like "No, Supply Side Jesus was the real Jesus, because we all know liberals are evil," and Atheists tend to oppose him with "Only stupid people are religious, so you're stupid, so your books don't count."

If you really want to piss off fundies, explain part of his back story. He grew up a fundie Christian, and because of that, was encouraged to study the Bible more in-depth, especially the original texts. It was that very studying which made him turn into a liberal Christian. Also, iirc, he donates a lot of money to charitable causes.

The man is seriously fascinating, and I would love to be able to talk to him about his views and research.
 
2013-12-26 11:14:48 PM
Paul Ryan is as likable as a bag of smashed assholes and he's easy to make fun of, not the kind of person you want speaking for your cause so naturally I'm glad the GOP has him out in front.
 
2013-12-26 11:17:15 PM

super_grass: unyon: Argentina got full-dosage Friedman Chicago school capitalism.  They fully deregulated and let market forces dictate.  Today, they have 20% unemployment with 50% of the population below the poverty line.  That is precisely Ryan's prescription for the USA.  The upside?  The rich have become the super-rich, and the super-rich have become the ultra-rich.

 [tcdc2.undp.org image 650x448]
[www.tradingeconomics.com image 710x325]
WAT


Exactly. unyon is in a Fark timeloop from 2001.  He'll be happy to learn that in 2002, they kicked out the IMF austerity-worshippers and elected semi-lefties (the Kirchners).  They got better.
 
2013-12-26 11:24:05 PM

Headso: Paul Ryan is as likable as a bag of smashed assholes and he's easy to make fun of, not the kind of person you want speaking for your cause so naturally I'm glad the GOP has him out in front.


That is an insult to bags of smashed assholes.
 
2013-12-26 11:24:06 PM

grumpfuff: Gyrfalcon: grumpfuff: fusillade762: [www.writtenword.com image 337x500]

Recommended reading.

Bart Ehrman is a brilliant scholar, and the Christian fundies should be forced to read his books.

Seriously, if you're even remotely interested in Christianity, especially early Christianity, go read some of his books. They're fascinating.

Reading "Jesus, Interrupted" right now. It would just kill fundamentalists if they were forced to read the Gospels not as the Holy Word of God but as stories written with specific purposes and even spin in mind. Or even to have to realize that the "story of Christmas" that we argue about every freaking year is actually a conflation of two entirely separate stories which have nothing in common and are in part mutually exclusive--except they are both nominally "about" the birth of Jesus.

He is indeed pretty awesome. Not gonna lie, part of the reason I like him is that he pisses off both the fundies and the Atheists(as opposed to atheists) at the same time. His work is well researched, well thought out, and well put together, and it really pisses people off that they can't dismiss him with a wave of the hand. I've read books that were critical of him, and they're laughable. Fundies tend to oppose him with something like "No, Supply Side Jesus was the real Jesus, because we all know liberals are evil," and Atheists tend to oppose him with "Only stupid people are religious, so you're stupid, so your books don't count."

If you really want to piss off fundies, explain part of his back story. He grew up a fundie Christian, and because of that, was encouraged to study the Bible more in-depth, especially the original texts. It was that very studying which made him turn into a liberal Christian. Also, iirc, he donates a lot of money to charitable causes.

The man is seriously fascinating, and I would love to be able to talk to him about his views and research.


I don't know of him, but it sounds a little like what Martin Luther talked about. Problem is, fundies will always see it their own way even if they do read it. It was originally a uniquely American phenomenon, but it's unfortunately spreading.
 
2013-12-26 11:27:48 PM

Abacus9: I don't know of him, but it sounds a little like what Martin Luther talked about. Problem is, fundies will always see it their own way even if they do read it. It was originally a uniquely American phenomenon, but it's unfortunately spreading.


Not quite. Luther's issue was with practices of the Catholic church, not necessarily the Bible. Luther was annoyed that certain actions of the church were contrary to the Bible, indulgences being the most well known example.

Ehrman, on the other hand, goes back to the original texts, and points out that by translations, inclusion and exclusion of books, and emphasis on certain aspects over others, the message of Jesus has been fundamentally perverted over the years.

Like I said upthread, if you're curious, I highly recommend pretty much any of his books. Granted, I haven't read all of them, but if the ones I haven't read are half as good as the ones I have, they're still worth reading. A bit of a warning though, they can at times be rather dense.
 
2013-12-26 11:33:36 PM
This is the best Pope in my lifetime. Paul Ryan is a douche.
 
2013-12-26 11:33:41 PM

grumpfuff: He grew up a fundie Christian,


He got his first degrees from Moody Bible Institute here in Chicago and Wheaton College out in the burbs. Wheaton made Fark a few years because the school allowed dancing for the first time ever. That's the sort of place Ehrman started out at. He ended up at Princeton for his PhD. His studies changed him juuuust bit.
 
2013-12-26 11:34:28 PM

grumpfuff: Abacus9: I don't know of him, but it sounds a little like what Martin Luther talked about. Problem is, fundies will always see it their own way even if they do read it. It was originally a uniquely American phenomenon, but it's unfortunately spreading.

Not quite. Luther's issue was with practices of the Catholic church, not necessarily the Bible. Luther was annoyed that certain actions of the church were contrary to the Bible, indulgences being the most well known example.

Ehrman, on the other hand, goes back to the original texts, and points out that by translations, inclusion and exclusion of books, and emphasis on certain aspects over others, the message of Jesus has been fundamentally perverted over the years.

Like I said upthread, if you're curious, I highly recommend pretty much any of his books. Granted, I haven't read all of them, but if the ones I haven't read are half as good as the ones I have, they're still worth reading. A bit of a warning though, they can at times be rather dense.


Sounds interesting, and I'm not disagreeing. My point was that Luther realized the abuses of the Church because he started reading the Bible, and changed accordingly. He realized that the authoritarian nature of things was wrong, and encouraged people to find out for themselves.
 
2013-12-26 11:35:25 PM
Someone really needs to straight out ask Ryan what he thinks of the the parable of the sheep and the goats, the one that has the "I was hungry and you fed me..." and "For surely I say unto you, as you did it unto the least of my brothers, you did it unto me".
 
2013-12-26 11:36:46 PM

Gyrfalcon: grumpfuff: fusillade762: [www.writtenword.com image 337x500]

Recommended reading.

Bart Ehrman is a brilliant scholar, and the Christian fundies should be forced to read his books.

Seriously, if you're even remotely interested in Christianity, especially early Christianity, go read some of his books. They're fascinating.

Reading "Jesus, Interrupted" right now. It would just kill fundamentalists if they were forced to read the Gospels not as the Holy Word of God but as stories written with specific purposes and even spin in mind. Or even to have to realize that the "story of Christmas" that we argue about every freaking year is actually a conflation of two entirely separate stories which have nothing in common and are in part mutually exclusive--except they are both nominally "about" the birth of Jesus.


Most fundies I know can't read...They love hating "other" people though!
 
2013-12-26 11:41:45 PM

WhyteRaven74: grumpfuff: He grew up a fundie Christian,

He got his first degrees from Moody Bible Institute here in Chicago and Wheaton College out in the burbs. Wheaton made Fark a few years because the school allowed dancing for the first time ever. That's the sort of place Ehrman started out at. He ended up at Princeton for his PhD. His studies changed him juuuust bit.


Yup. Hence why I said his story will piss off a lot of fundies. To them, he is the epitome of the "ivory tower liberal elite."

Abacus9: Sounds interesting, and I'm not disagreeing. My point was that Luther realized the abuses of the Church because he started reading the Bible, and changed accordingly. He realized that the authoritarian nature of things was wrong, and encouraged people to find out for themselves.


More or less, yea. In that respect he and Luther do have a bit in common. In all of Ehrman's writings, there is at least a slight hint of "Don't trust the establishment, they only care for their own power."
 
2013-12-26 11:52:39 PM

grumpfuff: WhyteRaven74: grumpfuff: He grew up a fundie Christian,

He got his first degrees from Moody Bible Institute here in Chicago and Wheaton College out in the burbs. Wheaton made Fark a few years because the school allowed dancing for the first time ever. That's the sort of place Ehrman started out at. He ended up at Princeton for his PhD. His studies changed him juuuust bit.

Yup. Hence why I said his story will piss off a lot of fundies. To them, he is the epitome of the "ivory tower liberal elite."

Abacus9: Sounds interesting, and I'm not disagreeing. My point was that Luther realized the abuses of the Church because he started reading the Bible, and changed accordingly. He realized that the authoritarian nature of things was wrong, and encouraged people to find out for themselves.

More or less, yea. In that respect he and Luther do have a bit in common. In all of Ehrman's writings, there is at least a slight hint of "Don't trust the establishment, they only care for their own power."


And he still considered himself Catholic till the day he died. "I didn't change, they did". They both did, really. This Ehrman sounds interesting, but I haven't heard of him.
 
2013-12-26 11:53:18 PM

enry: I'm constantly being told by Randroids that we don't have a true free enterprise system either.


But it's true.  If one cannot make a contract ( irrevocable except by mutual consent), committing one's self  to a life of servitude, and agreeing to physical restraint, or corporal or even capital punishment as permissible incentives, can one really truly be free?

www-news.uchicago.edu
 
2013-12-27 12:04:10 AM

Abacus9: And he still considered himself Catholic till the day he died. "I didn't change, they did". They both did, really. This Ehrman sounds interesting, but I haven't heard of him.


Go do you some readings, if you can get your hands on some of his books(hint hint, I'm pretty sure you can find it on the interwebs). From the sounds of your couple posts, you would greatly enjoy his stuff. Though I would suggest doing a bit of research first to decide exactly which one. Like I said, some of his stuff can be a bit dense, while other stuff is more accessible to the layman.
 
2013-12-27 12:13:03 AM

grumpfuff: Abacus9: And he still considered himself Catholic till the day he died. "I didn't change, they did". They both did, really. This Ehrman sounds interesting, but I haven't heard of him.

Go do you some readings, if you can get your hands on some of his books(hint hint, I'm pretty sure you can find it on the interwebs). From the sounds of your couple posts, you would greatly enjoy his stuff. Though I would suggest doing a bit of research first to decide exactly which one. Like I said, some of his stuff can be a bit dense, while other stuff is more accessible to the layman.


I like the heavy stuff. I know theology, the concepts anyway. The way I know a lot of the Bible, but couldn't tell you the chapter or verse. I know a lot of it, but couldn't say who the major modern players are.
 
2013-12-27 12:21:51 AM
No surprise here.

Before he was a Catholic priest, he lived in an Argentina that was a dictatorship which strongly supported and was in turn supported by the Catholic Church.

After becoming a priest, he was an officer in the dictatorship known as the Catholic church.  When Argentina moved away from dictatorship to a form of capitalism, it reduced support for the Catholic church since they had been strong supporters of the dictators

Now, as Pope, he is one of the most powerful dictators on earth.   The countries that have the strongest capitalist systems and the most robust middle class are the ones where the Catholic church is losing influence.   Not only isn't he equipped by his background to fully understand capitalism, he recognizes it as a threat to his dictatorship.   Of course he is going to speak out against it.
 
2013-12-27 12:27:42 AM

Abacus9: grumpfuff: Gyrfalcon: grumpfuff: fusillade762: [www.writtenword.com image 337x500]

I don't know of him, but it sounds a little like what Martin Luther talked about. Problem is, fundies will always see it their own way even if they do read it. It was originally a uniquely American phenomenon, but it's unfortunately spreading.


It's called self deception. It's no so uniquely American. Although I will agree that those on the U.S. political right seem to be practicing it with an much more alarming frequency.
 
2013-12-27 12:29:42 AM

jgk3: The countries that have the strongest capitalist systems and the most robust middle class


LOL!
 
2013-12-27 12:39:17 AM

Abacus9: grumpfuff: Abacus9: And he still considered himself Catholic till the day he died. "I didn't change, they did". They both did, really. This Ehrman sounds interesting, but I haven't heard of him.

Go do you some readings, if you can get your hands on some of his books(hint hint, I'm pretty sure you can find it on the interwebs). From the sounds of your couple posts, you would greatly enjoy his stuff. Though I would suggest doing a bit of research first to decide exactly which one. Like I said, some of his stuff can be a bit dense, while other stuff is more accessible to the layman.

I like the heavy stuff. I know theology, the concepts anyway. The way I know a lot of the Bible, but couldn't tell you the chapter or verse. I know a lot of it, but couldn't say who the major modern players are.


Well, there you go. Ehrman is one of the modern players, regardless of what the fundies want to tell you.
 
2013-12-27 12:49:58 AM

grumpfuff: Abacus9: grumpfuff: Abacus9: And he still considered himself Catholic till the day he died. "I didn't change, they did". They both did, really. This Ehrman sounds interesting, but I haven't heard of him.

Go do you some readings, if you can get your hands on some of his books(hint hint, I'm pretty sure you can find it on the interwebs). From the sounds of your couple posts, you would greatly enjoy his stuff. Though I would suggest doing a bit of research first to decide exactly which one. Like I said, some of his stuff can be a bit dense, while other stuff is more accessible to the layman.

I like the heavy stuff. I know theology, the concepts anyway. The way I know a lot of the Bible, but couldn't tell you the chapter or verse. I know a lot of it, but couldn't say who the major modern players are.

Well, there you go. Ehrman is one of the modern players, regardless of what the fundies want to tell you.


What would you recommend? Not the milk, but the meat.
 
2013-12-27 12:54:32 AM

WhyteRaven74: Someone really needs to straight out ask Ryan what he thinks of the the parable of the sheep and the goats, the one that has the "I was hungry and you fed me..." and "For surely I say unto you, as you did it unto the least of my brothers, you did it unto me".


I'm sure he'd say that millions of Americans give to charity every year and that it isn't government's job to feed, clothe or house anyone. Bonus if he makes the "fish for a lifetime" speech.
 
2013-12-27 01:06:26 AM

whidbey: WhyteRaven74: Someone really needs to straight out ask Ryan what he thinks of the the parable of the sheep and the goats, the one that has the "I was hungry and you fed me..." and "For surely I say unto you, as you did it unto the least of my brothers, you did it unto me".

I'm sure he'd say that millions of Americans give to charity every year and that it isn't government's job to feed, clothe or house anyone. Bonus if he makes the "fish for a lifetime" speech.


Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, he'll be warm the rest of his life. This is Republican wisdom.
 
2013-12-27 01:14:13 AM

Irving Maimway: Ayn Rand's father should have pulled out.


Actually, her family should've made her pay rent and not loaned her $5k.  THAT would've taught her true self-reliance.  Of course, as soon as she became famous, she said that she never relied on anyone for anything and she never spoke with her family again.

And no, she didn't pay them their $5k back.
 
2013-12-27 01:21:27 AM

The Lone Gunman: Irving Maimway: Ayn Rand's father should have pulled out.

Actually, her family should've made her pay rent and not loaned her $5k.  THAT would've taught her true self-reliance.  Of course, as soon as she became famous, she said that she never relied on anyone for anything and she never spoke with her family again.

And no, she didn't pay them their $5k back.


We're all paying for it now.
 
2013-12-27 01:23:11 AM

Weaver95: I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.


a



As a Catholic myself, I wouldn't go that far. He can still be Catholic, just not a very good one. I really hope that the Pope's change in tone for the Church as a whole is a wake-up call for Catholics - both in office and at the ballot box - to reevaluate their priorities over what to vote on.
 
2013-12-27 01:37:36 AM

Punk Guy: Where's the Dalek Pope when you need him? Excommunicate!


img.fark.net
 
2013-12-27 01:42:35 AM
Does the GOP have a check list of voting blocks that they want to alienate?
If you self-identify as a Republican but are NOT a wealthy older white Protestant male then you are probably on that list and might want to re-think your political affiliation.
 
2013-12-27 02:12:37 AM

Abacus9: grumpfuff: Abacus9: grumpfuff: Abacus9: And he still considered himself Catholic till the day he died. "I didn't change, they did". They both did, really. This Ehrman sounds interesting, but I haven't heard of him.

Go do you some readings, if you can get your hands on some of his books(hint hint, I'm pretty sure you can find it on the interwebs). From the sounds of your couple posts, you would greatly enjoy his stuff. Though I would suggest doing a bit of research first to decide exactly which one. Like I said, some of his stuff can be a bit dense, while other stuff is more accessible to the layman.

I like the heavy stuff. I know theology, the concepts anyway. The way I know a lot of the Bible, but couldn't tell you the chapter or verse. I know a lot of it, but couldn't say who the major modern players are.

Well, there you go. Ehrman is one of the modern players, regardless of what the fundies want to tell you.

What would you recommend? Not the milk, but the meat.



"Misinterpreting Jesus" is a good start; he does a fair job of explaining the how & why of Bible historical criticism, but also it's fairly well cited if you want to get deeper into it. "Jesus Interrupted" is also good, same reason. Once you've got any good book the cites can lead you deeper into it.
 
2013-12-27 02:13:42 AM

Weaver95: I don't see how Paul Ryan will be able to stay catholic. The pope is really spelling it out for him...don't be a greedy prick, ayn rand is not your god. Either Ryan drops the objectivist stuff or he has to stop pretending to be catholic.


My guess is he becomes a Pentacostal
 
2013-12-27 02:30:41 AM
I bet if you played OMD and talked about your first pair of Eastlands with argyle socks... Oxford... OHIO!
 
2013-12-27 02:41:35 AM

Gyrfalcon: Abacus9: grumpfuff: Abacus9: grumpfuff: Abacus9: And he still considered himself Catholic till the day he died. "I didn't change, they did". They both did, really. This Ehrman sounds interesting, but I haven't heard of him.

Go do you some readings, if you can get your hands on some of his books(hint hint, I'm pretty sure you can find it on the interwebs). From the sounds of your couple posts, you would greatly enjoy his stuff. Though I would suggest doing a bit of research first to decide exactly which one. Like I said, some of his stuff can be a bit dense, while other stuff is more accessible to the layman.

I like the heavy stuff. I know theology, the concepts anyway. The way I know a lot of the Bible, but couldn't tell you the chapter or verse. I know a lot of it, but couldn't say who the major modern players are.

Well, there you go. Ehrman is one of the modern players, regardless of what the fundies want to tell you.

What would you recommend? Not the milk, but the meat.


"Misinterpreting Jesus" is a good start; he does a fair job of explaining the how & why of Bible historical criticism, but also it's fairly well cited if you want to get deeper into it. "Jesus Interrupted" is also good, same reason. Once you've got any good book the cites can lead you deeper into it.


Thanks, I'll look into it. I'm not that religious anymore, but I still find theology fascinating, and all the history too.

cmb: I was raised Pentecostal, and it may not be too far off.
 
2013-12-27 03:19:57 AM
The more the American Right wing hates the Pope, the more I like him.

Its going to make the GOP merge with the atheist friendly Capitalist Libertarians even though the Republicans are still covered with Tea Party fleas. Although Ryan, The Pauls, Rupert Murdoch and the Koch Brothers have already gotten that ball rolling
 
2013-12-27 04:06:47 AM

NFA: FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?

Ryan is a Ayn Rand follower.  Rand's Objectivism teaches that if you love God more than yourself, you are immoral.  Greed is a virtue and that if you aren't self centered you don't deserve to be loved.  She wrote a book titled the Virtue of Selfishness.  None of this is an exaggeration.

Ryan worships Ayn Rand's writings, not the bible.

Here it is in his own words.


As usual, Republicans are about as religious as a pile of dog crap.  You know how you know there's no God.  Douchebag Republicans continue to walk the earth in spite of all the mankind hating behavior they spew.  Where are all the lightning bolts, God?
 
2013-12-27 04:19:05 AM
The Pope is arguably the most influential individual in the world. Ryan would be lucky if Frankie Hats even knew who his irrelevant ass is, without having to be told. There is still a class system for the uber rich & powerful. The Pope would easily still be arguably towards the top of that food chain. And I'm guessing Francis would be even less impressed with every detail he would be told about Ryan.
 
2013-12-27 06:07:37 AM
Full disclosure - I DESPISE the Catholic Church. With a passion born of a thousand exploding suns. The child abuse scandal alone makes me want to burn down churches, but... despite myself, I genuinely like this pope.

That being said, I'd love it if the pope went full-troll and started excommunicating Catholic senators and congressmen.

/ oh please, please, PLEASE start with this Ryan farkwit. The lulz would be sooo delicious.
 
2013-12-27 06:22:37 AM
llwproductions.files.wordpress.com
Rep. Ryan, I think you dropped this.
 
2013-12-27 06:32:05 AM

Virulency: keylock71: "The guy is from Argentina, they haven't had real capitalism in Argentina," Ryan said. "They have crony capitalism in Argentina. They don't have a true free enterprise system."

Heh... Who's the naive one here, Opie?

uhhhhh what?



Ryan (Opie... and I guess you have to be a certain age to get that reference) seems to be under the illusion that the US system isn't "Crony Capitalism", but rather a "true free enterprise system".
 
2013-12-27 07:54:22 AM

FlashHarry: so, party before country... and now, party before religion?


So, what you are saying is:

party, party, über alles,
Über alles in der Welt,
 
2013-12-27 09:19:49 AM
msuriawinata.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-27 09:31:34 AM
Ryan is entitled to his opinions, but he doesn't know enough about the Pope's religion to criticize it.
 
2013-12-27 09:35:12 AM
Of course he did.
 
2013-12-27 09:38:06 AM
Isn't all this *Job Creator* and Prosperity Gospel crap nothing more than Divine Right of Kings dressed up for contemporary corporate and non-monarchal capitalism?  That's always been my understanding.
 
2013-12-27 09:39:17 AM

whidbey: keylock71: unyon: Argentina got full-dosage Friedman Chicago school capitalism.

Courtesy of Henry Kissenger, the U.S. Congress, and Ronald Reagan...

"Look, our basic attitude is that we would like you to succeed. I have an old-fashioned view that friends ought to be supported. What is not understood in the United States is that you have a civil war. We read about human rights problems but not the context. The quicker you succeed the better... " -Henry Kissenger in support of the Argentina Military Junta, 1976

Someone should have cockpunched that guy all the way back to Germany or whatever hellhole he was borne of.


Kissinger and Bonzo were illuminati puppets.

/vote lizard 2014!
 
2013-12-27 09:49:18 AM
i171.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-27 09:53:33 AM
"His economic perspective I'm not particularly enamored with, but his advocacy for the poor, his lifestyle example, his more modern outlook on social issues - I've been very impressed," said Sen. John McCain (R-AZ).

I feel the same way John.  There are things about the pope I like and agree with and there are things I disagree with.  You see, I get to say things like that because I'm not Catholic.

Another Catholic lawmaker, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), said Pope Francis perhaps doesn't have enough understanding of capitalism to fully appreciate its benefits.
"The guy is from Argentina, they haven't had real capitalism in Argentina," Ryan said. "They have crony capitalism in Argentina. They don't have a true free enterprise system."


I agree with you Paul Ryan, what does Pope Francis know about capitalism?  But you see, Catholics believe he actually farking speaks with God.  If you're Catholic, then you know he doesn't need to actually experience or study it or anything like that.  He can just ask God, God will tell him and the pope can then speak for God.  You know that St. Peter guy in the Bible?  The one Jesus gave the keys to Heaven who stands at the pearly gates and decides who gets in and who does not?  The pope is the successor to St. Peter.  Assuming you believe he exists, it's probably not a good idea to criticize and disagree with the guy who holds the key for you to enter heaven.
 
2013-12-27 09:54:13 AM

Harry Ovaries: Isn't all this *Job Creator* and Prosperity Gospel crap nothing more than Divine Right of Kings dressed up for contemporary corporate and non-monarchal capitalism?  That's always been my understanding.


Yeah, pretty much
 
2013-12-27 10:34:26 AM

red5ish: Does the GOP have a check list of voting blocks that they want to alienate?
If you self-identify as a Republican but are NOT a wealthy older white Protestant male then you are probably on that list and might want to re-think your political affiliation.


You forgot heterosexual.
 
2013-12-27 10:44:20 AM

HeartBurnKid: red5ish: Does the GOP have a check list of voting blocks that they want to alienate?
If you self-identify as a Republican but are NOT a wealthy older white Protestant male then you are probably on that list and might want to re-think your political affiliation.

You forgot heterosexual.


on purpose.  y'all wanna talk about caribou barbie, mygyn fyxbytch, etc, fine...  i'd fist paul ryan like a merciful, loving saviour... :)
 
2013-12-27 11:06:31 AM
Funny I feel the same way about Paul Ryan and Rand Paul.
 
2013-12-27 11:28:43 AM

Abacus9: Gyrfalcon: Abacus9: grumpfuff: Abacus9: grumpfuff: Abacus9: And he still considered himself Catholic till the day he died. "I didn't change, they did". They both did, really. This Ehrman sounds interesting, but I haven't heard of him.

Go do you some readings, if you can get your hands on some of his books(hint hint, I'm pretty sure you can find it on the interwebs). From the sounds of your couple posts, you would greatly enjoy his stuff. Though I would suggest doing a bit of research first to decide exactly which one. Like I said, some of his stuff can be a bit dense, while other stuff is more accessible to the layman.

I like the heavy stuff. I know theology, the concepts anyway. The way I know a lot of the Bible, but couldn't tell you the chapter or verse. I know a lot of it, but couldn't say who the major modern players are.

Well, there you go. Ehrman is one of the modern players, regardless of what the fundies want to tell you.

What would you recommend? Not the milk, but the meat.


"Misinterpreting Jesus" is a good start; he does a fair job of explaining the how & why of Bible historical criticism, but also it's fairly well cited if you want to get deeper into it. "Jesus Interrupted" is also good, same reason. Once you've got any good book the cites can lead you deeper into it.

Thanks, I'll look into it. I'm not that religious anymore, but I still find theology fascinating, and all the history too.

cmb: I was raised Pentecostal, and it may not be too far off.


"Lost Christianities" is also pretty good. It's exactly what it sounds like, an examination of early forms of Christianity that didn't "make it", so to speak, and why they didn't.
 
2013-12-27 07:18:42 PM

grumpfuff: Abacus9: Gyrfalcon: Abacus9: grumpfuff: Abacus9: grumpfuff: Abacus9: And he still considered himself Catholic till the day he died. "I didn't change, they did". They both did, really. This Ehrman sounds interesting, but I haven't heard of him.

Go do you some readings, if you can get your hands on some of his books(hint hint, I'm pretty sure you can find it on the interwebs). From the sounds of your couple posts, you would greatly enjoy his stuff. Though I would suggest doing a bit of research first to decide exactly which one. Like I said, some of his stuff can be a bit dense, while other stuff is more accessible to the layman.

I like the heavy stuff. I know theology, the concepts anyway. The way I know a lot of the Bible, but couldn't tell you the chapter or verse. I know a lot of it, but couldn't say who the major modern players are.

Well, there you go. Ehrman is one of the modern players, regardless of what the fundies want to tell you.

What would you recommend? Not the milk, but the meat.


"Misinterpreting Jesus" is a good start; he does a fair job of explaining the how & why of Bible historical criticism, but also it's fairly well cited if you want to get deeper into it. "Jesus Interrupted" is also good, same reason. Once you've got any good book the cites can lead you deeper into it.

Thanks, I'll look into it. I'm not that religious anymore, but I still find theology fascinating, and all the history too.

cmb: I was raised Pentecostal, and it may not be too far off.

"Lost Christianities" is also pretty good. It's exactly what it sounds like, an examination of early forms of Christianity that didn't "make it", so to speak, and why they didn't.


Sounds like the followers of James. I'm interested in early Christianity, before the Nicean Counsels and stuff.
 
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