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(Orlando Sentinel)   Hamburgers will now cost eleventy billion dollars in Florida   (discussions.orlandosentinel.com) divider line 67
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10230 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Dec 2013 at 1:47 PM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-26 01:37:19 PM
Not only that, but there will be rampant layoffs due to the fact that businesses can no longer afford their employees. Without enough employees, of course, many businesses will have to close, as job creators will find that it simply makes more sense to declare bankruptcy and collect unemployment than run a business at a loss. The cost of social safety net programs will skyrocket by as much a thousandfold, putting great strain on a government that increasingly finds itself only paying out money to citizens on the dole because its base of tax-paying citizens is vanishing. The only possible end to this death spiral is what's already happened in Detroit -- bankruptcy, but on a Statewide scale. Foreign investors, many from Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Syria, will move in to purchase vast tracts of American homeland. Local caliphates will be established. Nothing good can happen from that point, and that's what truly worries me.
 
2013-12-26 01:49:26 PM
Whar is $15 an hour minimum?  WHAR?  Thanks Obama.
 
2013-12-26 01:51:03 PM

Prey4reign: Whar is $15 an hour minimum?  WHAR?  Thanks Obama.


It's still in the fascist voter drive playbook but only fascists and their ilk are picking up the crayons and kool aid
 
2013-12-26 01:52:36 PM
12:1
 
2013-12-26 01:55:50 PM

Pocket Ninja: Not only that, but there will be rampant layoffs due to the fact that businesses can no longer afford their employees. Without enough employees, of course, many businesses will have to close, as job creators will find that it simply makes more sense to declare bankruptcy and collect unemployment than run a business at a loss. The cost of social safety net programs will skyrocket by as much a thousandfold, putting great strain on a government that increasingly finds itself only paying out money to citizens on the dole because its base of tax-paying citizens is vanishing. The only possible end to this death spiral is what's already happened in Detroit -- bankruptcy, but on a Statewide scale. Foreign investors, many from Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Syria, will move in to purchase vast tracts of American homeland. Local caliphates will be established. Nothing good can happen from that point, and that's what truly worries me.


The restaurant wars have begun, eh?
/Taco Bell for dinner?
 
2013-12-26 01:57:23 PM
Ask Iger how many of his employees qualify for and currently receive food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid for their family's health care - all at the expense of taxpayers ???

Don't forget to ask Iger how much in taxes he and his company and its executives are already paying as taxpayers themselves.
 
2013-12-26 01:59:04 PM
I doubt anyone asked the employees what they wanted. It's likely they'd want their respective employers to post higher profits instead of make a few more cents an hour. For one out of gratitude for the businesses hiring them, and two because most know those higher profits will trickle down eventually.
 
2013-12-26 01:59:13 PM
 
2013-12-26 02:00:11 PM

jjorsett: Ask Iger how many of his employees qualify for and currently receive food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid for their family's health care - all at the expense of taxpayers ???

Don't forget to ask Iger how much in taxes he and his company and its executives are already paying as taxpayers themselves.


Florida doesn't have an income tax and the state sales tax is only 6%, so I'm guessing Iger probably won't be joining in this thread anytime soon.
 
2013-12-26 02:01:03 PM
Eleventy billion dollars? You're talking about the Fatburger in International Plaza in Tampa, aren't you?
 
2013-12-26 02:02:16 PM

MayoSlather: because most know those higher profits will trickle down eventually.


www.integralhmc.org
 
2013-12-26 02:03:52 PM
This is the beginning of our collapse into a islamo-homo-stalinist regime.
 
2013-12-26 02:04:12 PM
$7.93? "See, we raised the minimum wage. Now stop acting poor."
 
2013-12-26 02:06:31 PM
Raise the minimum wage?

'What does that get us? A discontented, lazy rabble instead of a thrifty working class.'

www.netbrawl.com
 
2013-12-26 02:06:49 PM
Great. Now with all these workers enjoying this sudden windfall of new wealth, demand on goods and services is going to skyrocket, driving up prices for everyone. Glad I bought the new car before this kicks in, sad that now I probably won't be able to afford a new one for the next decade because prices are now going to double or triple.

This is bullsh*t.
 
2013-12-26 02:07:48 PM

zulius: Pocket Ninja: Not only that, but there will be rampant layoffs due to the fact that businesses can no longer afford their employees. Without enough employees, of course, many businesses will have to close, as job creators will find that it simply makes more sense to declare bankruptcy and collect unemployment than run a business at a loss. The cost of social safety net programs will skyrocket by as much a thousandfold, putting great strain on a government that increasingly finds itself only paying out money to citizens on the dole because its base of tax-paying citizens is vanishing. The only possible end to this death spiral is what's already happened in Detroit -- bankruptcy, but on a Statewide scale. Foreign investors, many from Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Syria, will move in to purchase vast tracts of American homeland. Local caliphates will be established. Nothing good can happen from that point, and that's what truly worries me.

The restaurant wars have begun, eh?
/Taco Bell for dinner?


Nope.  The only restaurant left will be Aladdin's Eatery, IF YOU'RE LUCKY!
 
2013-12-26 02:13:06 PM
It's a little more than half an xbox one.

So shut up and shoot stuff on your TV, pleebs!
 
2013-12-26 02:14:05 PM

mutterfark: Raise the minimum wage?

'What does that get us?


It gets us two things (generally speaking, not necessarily with this specific small increase):
1)  increased consumer spending ability, which is the #1 factor in getting out of a recession, and
2)  less reliance on government safety-net programs

Both of which, I might add, are stated objectives for the GOP so I often wonder why they oppose wage increases so vehemently.*

* this was sarcasm, as I full well understand that the GOP's stated goals aren't the same as their actual goal - supporting business owners and the wealthy
 
2013-12-26 02:14:13 PM

Trivia Jockey: MayoSlather: because most know those higher profits will trickle down eventually.

[www.integralhmc.org image 850x661]


I can only assume this is a picture of minimum wage workers laughing their way to the bank after they've been trickled on.
 
2013-12-26 02:14:19 PM
It's still a joke. Living wage is closer to $15.00/hr--basically 2x the Minimum Wage. Just remember: if you're being paid Minimum Wage, it's because your greedy bastard employer would pay you LESS if only it were legal.
 
2013-12-26 02:14:41 PM

wildcardjack: $7.93? "See, we raised the minimum wage. Now stop acting poor."


My first good laugh of the day.  Well done.
 
2013-12-26 02:18:15 PM
Guess I'll have to switch to Lobster & Filet Mignon to make ends meet.
 
2013-12-26 02:20:45 PM
If you raise the min wage enough, companies will either try and do without extra employees or will automate as much of the process as they can.

Of course, this will hit all employers if you go up enough.  There is currently a $15 min wage voted in a few dozen miles south of me in Sea-Tac, WA.  if that spreads to where I am, I'm sure that the three employees that I have (who all currently make more than that) will want raises.  I'm not 100% sure I could keep all three at a rate like that.

Of course, the last time that I mentioned something like this on Fark, I was called a greedy farker for not just paying people more.  If I could pay my employees $30 an hour, I would.  But I'm still trying to build a business and there are weeks when I contemplate throwing in the towel.  I often don't cash my own paychecks.  So it's not like every business owner has a secret Swiss bank account somewhere with bushells of cash.
 
2013-12-26 02:22:33 PM

Trivia Jockey: mutterfark: Raise the minimum wage?

'What does that get us?

It gets us two things (generally speaking, not necessarily with this specific small increase):
1)  increased consumer spending ability, which is the #1 factor in getting out of a recession, and
2)  less reliance on government safety-net programs

Both of which, I might add, are stated objectives for the GOP so I often wonder why they oppose wage increases so vehemently.*

* this was sarcasm, as I full well understand that the GOP's stated goals aren't the same as their actual goal - supporting business owners and the wealthy


I was, ah, erm... never mind.

/me and amusing: some days not so much ;b
 
2013-12-26 02:23:47 PM

mutterfark: I was, ah, erm... never mind.

/me and amusing: some days not so much ;b


I was just using your post as a platform for mine.  Wasn't really "responding" to you.  ;)
 
2013-12-26 02:28:26 PM

Eirik: If you raise the min wage enough, companies will either try and do without extra employees or will automate as much of the process as they can.

Of course, this will hit all employers if you go up enough.  There is currently a $15 min wage voted in a few dozen miles south of me in Sea-Tac, WA.  if that spreads to where I am, I'm sure that the three employees that I have (who all currently make more than that) will want raises.  I'm not 100% sure I could keep all three at a rate like that.

Of course, the last time that I mentioned something like this on Fark, I was called a greedy farker for not just paying people more.  If I could pay my employees $30 an hour, I would.  But I'm still trying to build a business and there are weeks when I contemplate throwing in the towel.  I often don't cash my own paychecks.  So it's not like every business owner has a secret Swiss bank account somewhere with bushells of cash.


I have it on good authority from the farkers at FARK.com that if you own your own business that you are indeed swimming in cash and gold coins.

/snark
 
2013-12-26 02:43:31 PM
After I RTFA, I cant help but comment on the comment someone made about Disney CEO Iger's salary.

$204 is Iger's 2013 $34M total compensation divided evenly across all 166,000 Disney employees.  $618 is his compensation divided by all 55,000 WDW employees, and $1,360 is what the 25,000 unionized WDW park workers would get if Iger's salary were redistributed fairly among those seemingly earning the least.
Paying him less, as one commenter FTA suggested, would not create much more money for the employees. On the contrary, paying each employee a few hundred $ more per year evidently adds up fast! *Good thing we all know they're wildly profitable, and can afford it.

*sarcasm
 
2013-12-26 02:44:31 PM

Eirik: If you raise the min wage enough, companies will either try and do without extra employees or will automate as much of the process as they can.

Of course, this will hit all employers if you go up enough.  There is currently a $15 min wage voted in a few dozen miles south of me in Sea-Tac, WA.  if that spreads to where I am, I'm sure that the three employees that I have (who all currently make more than that) will want raises.  I'm not 100% sure I could keep all three at a rate like that.

Of course, the last time that I mentioned something like this on Fark, I was called a greedy farker for not just paying people more.  If I could pay my employees $30 an hour, I would.  But I'm still trying to build a business and there are weeks when I contemplate throwing in the towel.  I often don't cash my own paychecks.  So it's not like every business owner has a secret Swiss bank account somewhere with bushells of cash.


My current employer pays our EMT's minimum wage. Why, because he can't afford more. We cover an unsubsidized rural area that either requires we pay less or calls don't get covered in a timely fashion. EMS runs on a 10% or less margin nationwide. 15 dollars an hour would shut us down or require us to move to the lowest hours paid per shift allowed in Illinois. 13. 13 hours for a 24 hour shift. Also the recent change in how Medicare is administered included a nice little glitch where the government shorted us over $30,000.00. This hit at the Holidays. Just to allow you some perspective.
 
2013-12-26 02:47:26 PM

MayoSlather: I doubt anyone asked the employees what they wanted. It's likely they'd want their respective employers to post higher profits instead of make a few more cents an hour. For one out of gratitude for the businesses hiring them, and two because most know those higher profits will trickle down eventually.


4.bp.blogspot.com

Somethings trickling down... but it's not wealth
 
2013-12-26 02:48:09 PM

Bizzerk: . Just remember: if you're being paid Minimum Wage, it's because your greedy bastard employer would pay you LESS if only it were legal.


or you're working at a skilless job.
 
2013-12-26 02:51:39 PM
Prey4reign:

Florida doesn't have an income tax and the state sales tax is only 6%, so I'm guessing Iger probably won't be joining in this thread anytime soon.

States that reject or have near zero income tax rates should be ineligible from receiving federal funding (or at a minimum, a reduced portion that reflects the difference in tax rates between it and the national average).
 
2013-12-26 02:53:05 PM
farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2013-12-26 02:56:52 PM
I think I have food coma hangover today...I'm not sure if anyone is serious.
 
2013-12-26 03:18:13 PM
There seems to be a gulf between advocates for increased minimum wage and those who don't want to see it raised.  It seems to me that a ramp up of the minimum wage can be useful to manage the increase and see if the following secondary effects are observed or can be managed:

a. Minimum wage raising will see those businesses dependent upon minimum wage workers will have to reduce it's workforce
b. Same businesses will have to raise the price of their product
c. Same businesses will have to close
d. Reduces the reliance of minimum wage employees on some social safety net elements - SNAP, for example
e. Increases the consumer spending habits

It's fair to say that these changes in minimum wage will have all these effects - but they may end up averaging out. A slight fewer folks in the workforce, with some more money, have more buying power, which would end up driving demand in some areas, which businesses would have to hire a bit more at this new, higher minimum wage. The new minimum wage would allow some folks to leave SNAP behind, which would reduce government expenditures, while also increasing revenues by more folks paying slightly more in taxes. And on and on.

This would almost have an effect of a stimulus, a priming of the pump.  In many cases, I'd see the cause and effect chase each other around for a jerky, but effective upward spiral.  While I wouldn't want to see small business hit with an immediate 25% increase in minimum wage, I think it could be ramped up over several years to allow for businesses to plan.  It seems to me that this is more about the ability for businesses to plan expenditures than anything else.

I'd love for some CEOs to actually get religion and find that they really don't need to make 10, 20, 30 or more million a year. Many CEOs work more closely with their employees, both in terms of compensastion and benefits - which, being loyal to your business would normally encourage. Looking at Eirik's post earlier, doing your best by your employees should hopefully encourage them to do their best by you; if they know your business doesn't drive further compensation but they like working with and for you, then the promise of being part of something bigger down the road may allow for delayed gratification later.  However, given the disparity in how compensation has increased (In 1965, the average CEO pay was 18.3 times the average worker pay. By 2012, CEOs made 200 times workers pay.) it might be time to see if increasing average workers wages might be more beneficial to the economy and to the welfare of more of the public.
 
2013-12-26 03:36:52 PM
Two separate issues. Employee wages and CEO big bucks.

First issue, why do some jobs get minimum wage while others get something else? Enlightened owners/managers vs. slave driving skinflints? Minimum wage usually requires minimum skill and gets minimum effort. It aint a farking career, get over it.

CEO treasure, I can't for the life of me figure out what makes some of these assholes worth a tenth of their salaries let alone the whole pile. The more I see of them, the dumber they look. Most of you and I could do their day to day actions with far less drama, they are not particularly gifted. Repeat: "They are not particularly gifted or even bright in some cases"

You Ben and Jerry's salary formula folks are just as stupid and short sighted as the big buck CEO's. Get over yourself.

//lude
 
2013-12-26 03:41:13 PM

LemSkroob: Prey4reign:

Florida doesn't have an income tax and the state sales tax is only 6%, so I'm guessing Iger probably won't be joining in this thread anytime soon.

States that reject or have near zero income tax rates should be ineligible from receiving federal funding (or at a minimum, a reduced portion that reflects the difference in tax rates between it and the national average).


You conveniently didn't copy what I responded to:

 jjorsett: Ask Iger how many of his employees qualify for and currently receive food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid for their family's health care - all at the expense of taxpayers ???

Don't forget to ask Iger how much in taxes he and his company and its executives are already paying as taxpayers themselves.


Not sure what point you're getting at with your comment.  You mean to say that the federal government should be deciding what taxes to levy upon their citizens and elbow the states out of it?
 
2013-12-26 04:09:08 PM

Prey4reign: jjorsett: Ask Iger how many of his employees qualify for and currently receive food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid for their family's health care - all at the expense of taxpayers ???

Don't forget to ask Iger how much in taxes he and his company and its executives are already paying as taxpayers themselves.

Florida doesn't have an income tax and the state sales tax is only 6%, so I'm guessing Iger probably won't be joining in this thread anytime soon.


So property, business, etc. taxes don't count now?
 
2013-12-26 04:16:30 PM

Eirik: If you raise the min wage enough, companies will either try and do without extra employees or will automate as much of the process as they can.

Of course, this will hit all employers if you go up enough.  There is currently a $15 min wage voted in a few dozen miles south of me in Sea-Tac, WA.  if that spreads to where I am, I'm sure that the three employees that I have (who all currently make more than that) will want raises.  I'm not 100% sure I could keep all three at a rate like that.

Of course, the last time that I mentioned something like this on Fark, I was called a greedy farker for not just paying people more.  If I could pay my employees $30 an hour, I would.  But I'm still trying to build a business and there are weeks when I contemplate throwing in the towel.  I often don't cash my own paychecks.  So it's not like every business owner has a secret Swiss bank account somewhere with bushells of cash.


There's obviously a lot of very obvious jobs that will disappear.

USA is quite unique in having a greeter when you enter the supermarket, and someone to pack your groceries when you're shopping etc. These jobs are obviously completely unproductive, and will be cut if companies had to pay a resonable wage.

As for your company, I have no clue what you're doing, but I imagine your competitors would be in the same boat. The balance of national competines wouldn't change, and you would simply be on par with Europe as well.

If of course your company can only function by paying your employees a slave wage. Tough, please close then.


Also along with a resonable liveable wage, USA should also institute a welfare system to insure that people who can't get a job still can make a human dignified living. Since there won't no longer be joke jobs, it would be the end of Soviet Union style economy where everyone got a job, no matter how pointless.
 
2013-12-26 04:19:03 PM

Danger Mouse: Bizzerk: . Just remember: if you're being paid Minimum Wage, it's because your greedy bastard employer would pay you LESS if only it were legal.

or you're working at a skilless job.


Why does that matter?

If a job needs to be done, then the person doing it should be paid. If the job isn't worth 15USD an hour, then don't have it done (see Walmart greeter).
 
2013-12-26 04:21:37 PM
Bizzerk: . Just remember: if you're being paid Minimum Wage, it's because your greedy bastard employer would pay you LESS if only it were legal.

Danger Mouse: or you're working at a skilless job.

a) The task you're doing has no bearing on the minimum amount you should be paid in order to avoid poverty conditions. It affects the maximum. Raise the floor, don't lower the ceiling.

b) Somebody has to work those jobs. If nobody worked skilless jobs, society would grind to a halt. Ensuring that nobody who works these jobs can afford to get off the welfare/food stamp/government assistance train only makes things worse for you and everyone else. I would think "anti-handout" enthusiasts would be all for putting the cost in the private sector to reduce tax needs and government spending.
 
2013-12-26 04:41:07 PM

WTFDYW: I have it on good authority from the farkers at FARK.com that if you own your own business that you are indeed swimming in cash and gold coins.


To be honest, this is kinda true, because if you're business sucks, you got out of business quickly and therefore do not own your own business and work for someone else/be poor.

If you own your own business that stays in business, you are making profit, thus you are kinda living well.
 
2013-12-26 05:06:33 PM
This is the problem here. If the top 1% weren't so farkin' greedy and had a little more humanity...

s30.postimg.org

Of course, this can't do on forever. The boys in suits will eventually kill the geese that lays their golden eggs.
 
2013-12-26 05:12:37 PM

Bizzerk: Bizzerk: . Just remember: if you're being paid Minimum Wage, it's because your greedy bastard employer would pay you LESS if only it were legal.

Danger Mouse: or you're working at a skilless job.

a) The task you're doing has no bearing on the minimum amount you should be paid in order to avoid poverty conditions. It affects the maximum. Raise the floor, don't lower the ceiling.

b) Somebody has to work those jobs. If nobody worked skilless jobs, society would grind to a halt. Ensuring that nobody who works these jobs can afford to get off the welfare/food stamp/government assistance train only makes things worse for you and everyone else. I would think "anti-handout" enthusiasts would be all for putting the cost in the private sector to reduce tax needs and government spending.


x1000
 
2013-12-26 05:22:41 PM

spawn73: Danger Mouse: Bizzerk: . Just remember: if you're being paid Minimum Wage, it's because your greedy bastard employer would pay you LESS if only it were legal.

or you're working at a skilless job.

Why does that matter?

If a job needs to be done, then the person doing it should be paid. If the job isn't worth 15USD an hour, then don't have it done (see Walmart greeter).


Flip your own fast food at home then.
 
2013-12-26 05:22:49 PM
Automation is incredibly expensive. It goes obsolete, parts stop being made, companies go out of business and then they want to sell you the newest most expensive model. Minimum wage jobs will always exist because they are flat out cheaper than getting all the logistical headaches.

Manufacturing jobs are rarely minimum wage in the first world.

The bigger question is why our governments are importing 3rd world workers. (Temporary Foreign Worker program and B12).

That's the problem with 3rd world workers, they live in the 3rd world. Wouldn't it be nice if we could just bring them here and make stuff for us and eliminate all those icky transport costs?
 
2013-12-26 05:24:23 PM

moefuggenbrew: WTFDYW: I have it on good authority from the farkers at FARK.com that if you own your own business that you are indeed swimming in cash and gold coins.

To be honest, this is kinda true, because if you're business sucks, you got out of business quickly and therefore do not own your own business and work for someone else/be poor.

If you own your own business that stays in business, you are making profit, thus you are kinda living well.


Says the guy who doesn't own his own business.
 
2013-12-26 05:24:33 PM

moefuggenbrew: If you own your own business that stays in business, you are making profit, thus you are kinda living well.


No, you can just break even and sustain. I wouldn't call that living well though.
 
2013-12-26 05:27:26 PM

Prey4reign: Not sure what point you're getting at with your comment.  You mean to say that the federal government should be deciding what taxes to levy upon their citizens and elbow the states out of it?


I'm saying that he Federal Government should limit federal dollars flowing to states that dont charge state income taxes.

States that charge zero are basically assuming the feds will pay for all they need (in other words, people from other states).
 
2013-12-26 05:38:36 PM

WTFDYW: spawn73: Danger Mouse: Bizzerk: . Just remember: if you're being paid Minimum Wage, it's because your greedy bastard employer would pay you LESS if only it were legal.

or you're working at a skilless job.

Why does that matter?

If a job needs to be done, then the person doing it should be paid. If the job isn't worth 15USD an hour, then don't have it done (see Walmart greeter).

Flip your own fast food at home then.


Sure.

I also like to eat at McDonalds where the minimum wage is 20USD.


See that's the fundemental flaw in the argument that you're trying to make. That your society would collapse without the presence of what is essentially slave labour, when anyone with a minimum effort can point out that McDonalds and all other fastfood restaurents are doing just fine in countries that institute a living wage.

Try to wrap your head around that. Explain to me why that is. Either you're wrong, or there is some Socialist plot to make you look bad. What is it?
 
2013-12-26 06:00:46 PM

spawn73: WTFDYW: spawn73: Danger Mouse: Bizzerk: . Just remember: if you're being paid Minimum Wage, it's because your greedy bastard employer would pay you LESS if only it were legal.

or you're working at a skilless job.

Why does that matter?

If a job needs to be done, then the person doing it should be paid. If the job isn't worth 15USD an hour, then don't have it done (see Walmart greeter).

Flip your own fast food at home then.

Sure.

I also like to eat at McDonalds where the minimum wage is 20USD.


See that's the fundemental flaw in the argument that you're trying to make. That your society would collapse without the presence of what is essentially slave labour, when anyone with a minimum effort can point out that McDonalds and all other fastfood restaurents are doing just fine in countries that institute a living wage.

Try to wrap your head around that. Explain to me why that is. Either you're wrong, or there is some Socialist plot to make you look bad. What is it?


Well said. It's so strange that in other countries they do just fine, but a living wage in America would magically break a company into shattered ruins.
 
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