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(BBC)   International outrage erupts over Japanese prime minster visiting a shrine honoring the dead. Sure, it honors war criminals including ones who tested bioweapons on Chinese civilians but what's the big deal, guy?   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 120
    More: Dumbass, Shinzo Abe, Yasukuni Shrine, Japan, Japanese, Prime Minister of Japan, Liberal Democratic Party, war criminals  
•       •       •

962 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Dec 2013 at 9:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-26 08:47:15 AM  
Can we just stop pretending we care about states committing "war crimes" or genocide?

When we give people with bags of plant matter longer prison sentences than Germans/Japanese responsible for genocide we're pretty full of shiat on the whole justice/moral high ground thing.
 
2013-12-26 08:53:55 AM  
Doesn't the Japanese Prime Minister visit this place every year?
 
2013-12-26 09:09:56 AM  
This happens every year.

It's bullshiat, but it happens every year.

Simple solution would simply to raze the Yusukani War Shrine.
 
2013-12-26 09:10:58 AM  

OnlyM3: Can we just stop pretending we care about states committing "war crimes" or genocide?


Hey, buddy. I happen to care about the genocide and war crimes - especially since my relatives and people were the victims of it. So speak for yourself. Or, better yet, don't speak at all.
 
2013-12-26 09:11:04 AM  

RexTalionis: Simple solution would simply to raze the Yusukani War Shrine.


Or they could rebury the war criminals elsewhere.
 
2013-12-26 09:11:16 AM  
FTFA:

But there is perhaps a bigger goal that Mr Abe has in mind.

He wants to
radically revise Japan's post-war constitution.

This, too, is a long-held dream that started with his grandfather in the 1950s.

Mr Abe believes he is the man to complete the historic task of getting rid of the hated "peace constitution".

Like many on the right here, Mr Abe believes that constitution was forced on Japan by America and is a humiliation.

It imposes not only pacifism, but also Western notions of human rights and civil liberties. It rejects Japan's uniqueness in favour of "universal values".

Mr Abe would like to change a lot of this. But it will be very hard. And so he will need some help.

"Abe has provoked China, and China has reacted just as Abe wanted it to," says Prof Kingston. "There is a shrewd political calculus at work here."



Imperial Japan rising.
 
2013-12-26 09:11:27 AM  
If Truman knew what whiny biatches Japanese apologists would turn out to be would he have bombed them? They seem to take it as a license to sweep their excesses under the rug and claim victim status.
 
2013-12-26 09:12:31 AM  
Like many on the right here, Mr Abe believes that constitution was forced on Japan by America and is a humiliation.

It imposes not only pacifism, but also Western notions of human rights and civil liberties. It rejects Japan's uniqueness in favour of "universal values".


You sneak-attacked us, we nuked you, you gave us Pokemon and Hello Kitty. Who is more humiliated?

(Bonzo goes to Bitburg!)
 
2013-12-26 09:14:13 AM  
When will the Japanese make the role of Unit 731 part of their high school history curriculum?

My contempt for WW II Japan apologists grows every year.  Especially now that they have a growing "re-arm Japan" movement.

/just kidding - let the "First Island Chain" rearm.  Better they channel their engineering talent into the defense industry than try to compete economically with Worst Korea.  And if re-armed, they might make a noticeable speed bump for China's regional ambitions.
 
2013-12-26 09:15:13 AM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.comrick-
 
2013-12-26 09:15:32 AM  

neversubmit: FTFA:

But there is perhaps a bigger goal that Mr Abe has in mind.

He wants to radically revise Japan's post-war constitution.

This, too, is a long-held dream that started with his grandfather in the 1950s.

Mr Abe believes he is the man to complete the historic task of getting rid of the hated "peace constitution".

Like many on the right here, Mr Abe believes that constitution was forced on Japan by America and is a humiliation.

It imposes not only pacifism, but also Western notions of human rights and civil liberties. It rejects Japan's uniqueness in favour of "universal values".

Mr Abe would like to change a lot of this. But it will be very hard. And so he will need some help.

"Abe has provoked China, and China has reacted just as Abe wanted it to," says Prof Kingston. "There is a shrewd political calculus at work here."


Imperial Japan rising.


Yes Japan, that is a side effect you risk when you start a war you can't win.

To the victor go the spoils.
 
2013-12-26 09:16:53 AM  

zerkalo: If Truman knew what whiny biatches Japanese apologists would turn out to be would he have bombed them?


Knowing "Give 'em Hell" Harry Truman, he probably would have just made sure to finish the job.

www.hwdyk.com
 
2013-12-26 09:17:02 AM  

Therion: Like many on the right here, Mr Abe believes that constitution was forced on Japan by America and is a humiliation.

It imposes not only pacifism, but also Western notions of human rights and civil liberties. It rejects Japan's uniqueness in favour of "universal values".

You sneak-attacked us, we nuked you, you gave us Pokemon and Hello Kitty. Who is more humiliated?

(Bonzo goes to Bitburg!)


Ouch!  Well played, Therion.
 
2013-12-26 09:18:09 AM  

neversubmit: FTFA:

But there is perhaps a bigger goal that Mr Abe has in mind.

He wants to radically revise Japan's post-war constitution.

This, too, is a long-held dream that started with his grandfather in the 1950s.

Mr Abe believes he is the man to complete the historic task of getting rid of the hated "peace constitution".

Like many on the right here, Mr Abe believes that constitution was forced on Japan by America and is a humiliation.

It imposes not only pacifism, but also Western notions of human rights and civil liberties. It rejects Japan's uniqueness in favour of "universal values".

Mr Abe would like to change a lot of this. But it will be very hard. And so he will need some help.

"Abe has provoked China, and China has reacted just as Abe wanted it to," says Prof Kingston. "There is a shrewd political calculus at work here."


Imperial Japan rising.


Nah. It is a lot like Texas clamoring for succession. A bunch of saber rattling to placate the hard liners.

The whitewashing is a concern but at the same time, there is no country that gives a broad and sober look at their own history willingly.
 
2013-12-26 09:18:43 AM  
I just know Chinasmack and Koreabang will have articles on this and the comments will be filled (not unreasonably) with anger.
 
2013-12-26 09:18:57 AM  

Brick-House: [encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 312x161]rick-


So if Israel committed war crimes against Palestinians, they have to stop complaining about the Holocaust?
 
2013-12-26 09:25:16 AM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Doesn't the Japanese Prime Minister visit this place every year?


I don't know if it the Prime Minister all the time but high level officials and veterans of WWII do. This place has always been controversial.

Japan is falling apart slowly due to falling birth rates, a decade long recession, and a failure to pull their head out of their ass and change. This is just him pulling the Nationalism card to make people pay attention to something else other than the economy and why no one is having sex anymore.
 
2013-12-26 09:25:41 AM  
Hey Japan, you should probably do something about that birth rate and economy before you undertake some grand rearmament. Your outdated business hiring practices and the un/underemployment of youth are far more pressing concerns.
 
2013-12-26 09:31:45 AM  

Dante87336: neversubmit: FTFA:

But there is perhaps a bigger goal that Mr Abe has in mind.

He wants to radically revise Japan's post-war constitution.

This, too, is a long-held dream that started with his grandfather in the 1950s.

Mr Abe believes he is the man to complete the historic task of getting rid of the hated "peace constitution".

Like many on the right here, Mr Abe believes that constitution was forced on Japan by America and is a humiliation.

It imposes not only pacifism, but also Western notions of human rights and civil liberties. It rejects Japan's uniqueness in favour of "universal values".

Mr Abe would like to change a lot of this. But it will be very hard. And so he will need some help.

"Abe has provoked China, and China has reacted just as Abe wanted it to," says Prof Kingston. "There is a shrewd political calculus at work here."


Imperial Japan rising.

Nah. It is a lot like Texas clamoring for succession. A bunch of saber rattling to placate the hard liners.

The whitewashing is a concern but at the same time, there is no country that gives a broad and sober look at their own history willingly.


The apologist, who generally know no more about Japan or history than their stupid animae, always go for the deflection strategy first.
 
2013-12-26 09:37:23 AM  

Dante87336: Nah. It is a lot like Texas clamoring for succession. A bunch of saber rattling to placate the hard liners.

The whitewashing is a concern but at the same time, there is no country that gives a broad and sober look at their own history willingly.


I don't see any whitewashing, could you be so kind as to point it out?
 
2013-12-26 09:39:10 AM  

Gwendolyn: Rev. Skarekroe: Doesn't the Japanese Prime Minister visit this place every year?

I don't know if it the Prime Minister all the time but high level officials and veterans of WWII do. This place has always been controversial.

Japan is falling apart slowly due to falling birth rates, a decade long recession, and a failure to pull their head out of their ass and change. This is just him pulling the Nationalism card to make people pay attention to something else other than the economy and why no one is having sex anymore.


Not having sex?  Or just not having babies?
 
2013-12-26 09:39:16 AM  
We interrupted the Japanese in the commission of an enormous crime and prevented them from performing an even greater one. The annihilation of Hiroshima ultimately saved millions of Japanese and American lives. The destruction of Nagasaki could have been avoided with an immediate Japanese surrender. America has nothing to be ashamed of in its prosecution of World War II in either theater. Japan richly deserved its military humiliation and the imposition of foreign civil and political norms. Screw this guy and look out Japanese fascist-wannabes. We've got our eye on you.
 
2013-12-26 09:45:24 AM  
2a56b976980e0793ddee-5cc5435fcbc367bb03f9a415e7067a97.r91.cf2.rackcdn.com
 
2013-12-26 09:49:30 AM  
Dante87336: ... there is no country that gives a broad and sober look at their own history willingly.

Au contrare...  The Germans beat their people with the facts of WW II so hard they are still twitching neurotics about it.  Heck, it even splashed over into the U.S.  (Yes, in New Jersey, I was reminded constantly how "evil" Germans are, even though my family left Germany before WW I.)

Cf. Scandinavia and the World - Evil Flag.
 
2013-12-26 09:49:37 AM  

TheBigJerk: Gwendolyn: Rev. Skarekroe: Doesn't the Japanese Prime Minister visit this place every year?

I don't know if it the Prime Minister all the time but high level officials and veterans of WWII do. This place has always been controversial.

Japan is falling apart slowly due to falling birth rates, a decade long recession, and a failure to pull their head out of their ass and change. This is just him pulling the Nationalism card to make people pay attention to something else other than the economy and why no one is having sex anymore.

Not having sex?  Or just not having babies?


Kinda both, actually.
 
2013-12-26 09:52:01 AM  
l2.yimg.com
Wait. Doesn't every country honor its war criminals?


/in before "NUH UH 'COS OBAMA DID IT TOO!"
 
2013-12-26 09:52:49 AM  

Laobaojun: When will the Japanese make the role of Unit 731 part of their high school history curriculum?

My contempt for WW II Japan apologists grows every year.  Especially now that they have a growing "re-arm Japan" movement.

/just kidding - let the "First Island Chain" rearm.  Better they channel their engineering talent into the defense industry than try to compete economically with Worst Korea.  And if re-armed, they might make a noticeable speed bump for China's regional ambitions.


Good article from a Japanese woman who moved to Australia in high school:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21226068
 
2013-12-26 10:01:35 AM  

neversubmit: Dante87336: Nah. It is a lot like Texas clamoring for succession. A bunch of saber rattling to placate the hard liners.

The whitewashing is a concern but at the same time, there is no country that gives a broad and sober look at their own history willingly.

I don't see any whitewashing, could you be so kind as to point it out?


It isn't quoted directly but two that come to mind is their interpretation of the Rape of Nanking and the use of Korean comfort women (read:forced prostitution). These two areas are sore points for China and South Korea, justifiably so, and the denial over these atrocities tend to have a chilling effect on relations.

Then there is the story of Unit 731, a medical unit that performed experiments on POWs. This is off the top of my head, but one experiment was to leave soldiers out in the cold and check for progression of frostbite. They mostly dealt with biological and chemical weapons but a lot of the brass then moved on to work in pharmaceutical companies afterwards. I am relying on memory here at this point, but they did commit rather heinous crimes against other human beings, which is what makes their pardon and reintegration to society all the more distressing.

Japan is hardly special with respect to covering up human rights abuses and crimes against humanity. It is sadly typical for all countries to cover up their own share of genocide and human rights violations, under the guise of sovereignty or nationalism or what have you.That makes calling governments out on their actions and making them take responsibility all the more difficult challenges we face as a internationalized society. The international outrage is a good thing, but I doubt that it will change things.

But I will say this, the whole rigamole about rewriting the constitution is pure dog whistle rhetoric, through and through.
 
2013-12-26 10:06:30 AM  
Reminds me of how my mind was blown to find out Hajime Isayama (author of Attack on Titan, a work that isn't shy about showing self-interest inherent in even "good" characters who lie to themselves about how virtuous their deeds are and justify cruelty that from a third party perspective is abominable) is a big time apologist for Imperial Japan and spends a lot of his spare time talking to the media about how Japan was right to do some of the things it did to China and Korea throughout history.
 
2013-12-26 10:18:30 AM  
.

EyeballKid: [l2.yimg.com image 630x431]
Wait. Doesn't every country honor its war criminals?


/in before "NUH UH 'COS OBAMA DID IT TOO!"


But Obamas black...black people can not be war criminals, same as they can not be racist.
 
2013-12-26 10:21:07 AM  

Arkanaut: RexTalionis: Simple solution would simply to raze the Yusukani War Shrine.

Or they could rebury the war criminals elsewhere.


Even the survivors?
 
2013-12-26 10:26:59 AM  

SurfaceTension: Arkanaut: RexTalionis: Simple solution would simply to raze the Yusukani War Shrine.

Or they could rebury the war criminals elsewhere.

Even the survivors?



Bravo. Keep up the good work.
 
2013-12-26 10:27:12 AM  

Gwendolyn: Rev. Skarekroe: Doesn't the Japanese Prime Minister visit this place every year?

I don't know if it the Prime Minister all the time but high level officials and veterans of WWII do. This place has always been controversial.

Japan is falling apart slowly due to falling birth rates, a decade long recession, and a failure to pull their head out of their ass and change. This is just him pulling the Nationalism card to make people pay attention to something else other than the economy and why no one is having sex anymore.


Yeah, well a multiple decade long economic slump will make people think they can't afford children.
 
2013-12-26 10:30:11 AM  

SurfaceTension: Arkanaut: RexTalionis: Simple solution would simply to raze the Yusukani War Shrine.

Or they could rebury the war criminals elsewhere.

Even the survivors?


Give them the option of either being buried alive or they and their descendants can be subjected to the same war crimes the criminals committed on others.
 
2013-12-26 10:31:30 AM  
I think the Japanese would be well-justified in dismissing this "outrage" and inviting others to keep their nose out of Japan's internal affairs. We wouldn't take it kindly in America if other countries stirred up a shiatstorm over the President visiting Arlington National Cemetery.
 
2013-12-26 10:34:34 AM  

Gwendolyn: I don't know if it the Prime Minister all the time but high level officials and veterans of WWII do. This place has always been controversial.

Japan is falling apart slowly due to falling birth rates, a decade long recession, and a failure to pull their head out of their ass and change. This is just him pulling the Nationalism card to make people pay attention to something else other than the economy and why no one is having sex anymore.


I have a standing offer to Japan to go around and bang all their young women.
 
2013-12-26 10:35:53 AM  
A re-armed Japan is probably in the cards at some point in the near future due to China's rise as an economic and military power.

I'm actually a little surprised the Peace Constitution has held on as long as it has.

That noted, Japan's inability or unwillingness to come to terms with some of it's actions during WWII even up to this day is a little disconcerting.
 
2013-12-26 10:37:54 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: zerkalo: If Truman knew what whiny biatches Japanese apologists would turn out to be would he have bombed them?

Knowing "Give 'em Hell" Harry Truman, he probably would have just made sure to finish the job.

[www.hwdyk.com image 289x218]


mimg.ugo.com
President Truman: If you come in peace, surrender or be destroyed. If you're here to make war, we surrender.
Dr. Zoidberg: Both good. The important thing is, I'm meeting new people.
 
2013-12-26 10:54:28 AM  

quatchi: A re-armed Japan is probably in the cards at some point in the near future due to China's rise as an economic and military power.

I'm actually a little surprised the Peace Constitution has held on as long as it has.

That noted, Japan's inability or unwillingness to come to terms with some of it's actions during WWII even up to this day is a little disconcerting.


How is Japan not rearmed?  They have a decent sized and modern navy.  Over 250 modern fighters with 50 F-35's on order.   700 modern tanks.
 
2013-12-26 10:54:45 AM  

clambam: We interrupted the Japanese in the commission of an enormous crime and prevented them from performing an even greater one. The annihilation of Hiroshima ultimately saved millions of Japanese and American lives. The destruction of Nagasaki could have been avoided with an immediate Japanese surrender. America has nothing to be ashamed of in its prosecution of World War II in either theater. Japan richly deserved its military humiliation and the imposition of foreign civil and political norms. Screw this guy and look out Japanese fascist-wannabes. We've got our eye on you.


Well, we do have something to be ashamed of at home at least.  Like arresting people of Japanese descent and putting them into camps without charge.
Of course, we don't celebrate that.
 
2013-12-26 11:03:23 AM  

QuesoDelicioso: We wouldn't take it kindly in America if other countries stirred up a shiatstorm over the President visiting Arlington National Cemetery.


We don't bury convicted war criminals in Arlington.
 
2013-12-26 11:06:28 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: quatchi: A re-armed Japan is probably in the cards at some point in the near future due to China's rise as an economic and military power.

I'm actually a little surprised the Peace Constitution has held on as long as it has.

That noted, Japan's inability or unwillingness to come to terms with some of it's actions during WWII even up to this day is a little disconcerting.

How is Japan not rearmed?  They have a decent sized and modern navy.  Over 250 modern fighters with 50 F-35's on order.   700 modern tanks.


Hell the Japanese Defense Force participated in Iraq II, Sadam's Boogaloo. That was an end of an era and sparked a lot of protests over there.
 
2013-12-26 11:12:50 AM  

Laobaojun: When will the Japanese make the role of Unit 731 part of their high school history curriculum?

My contempt for WW II Japan apologists grows every year.  Especially now that they have a growing "re-arm Japan" movement.

/just kidding - let the "First Island Chain" rearm.  Better they channel their engineering talent into the defense industry than try to compete economically with Worst Korea.  And if re-armed, they might make a noticeable speed bump for China's regional ambitions.


Re: Unit 731.

In college, I took a history class all about World War 2. When we got into the Japanese war with China, my professor (no nonsense kinda guy) mentioned Unit 731. He gave a brief discussion and moved on quickly, complete with cracking voice. After class, I popped by his office and asked him more about it.

He closed the door and sat down behind his desk.

He spent a good hour and a half telling me about Unit 731. Complete with burning people alive to test flamethrowers, re-attaching amputated limbs on the opposite side, etc. He said it was essentially like the Nazi experiments, but "we (the US) gave them immunity for what we could 'learn' from 731."

He got very emotional, but didn't cry. His BFF in grad school survived Nanking and was a guest speaker to our class about it. He was not very keen on Japanese apologists and frowned strongly upon their shenanigans.

/not CSS
//off to Entertainment tab for teh funny
///sad thread is sad
 
2013-12-26 11:13:35 AM  

RexTalionis: QuesoDelicioso: We wouldn't take it kindly in America if other countries stirred up a shiatstorm over the President visiting Arlington National Cemetery.

We don't bury convicted war criminals in Arlington.


Because we don't convict our war criminals.
 
2013-12-26 11:14:31 AM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Doesn't the Japanese Prime Minister visit this place every year?


First time in seven years that a Japanese PM is visiting the shrine.

TheBigJerk: Gwendolyn: Rev. Skarekroe: Doesn't the Japanese Prime Minister visit this place every year?

I don't know if it the Prime Minister all the time but high level officials and veterans of WWII do. This place has always been controversial.

Japan is falling apart slowly due to falling birth rates, a decade long recession, and a failure to pull their head out of their ass and change. This is just him pulling the Nationalism card to make people pay attention to something else other than the economy and why no one is having sex anymore.

Not having sex?  Or just not having babies?


Let's just say it's that whole "pureblood" BS cropping up again.  You don't marry another Japanese?  You're disowned by your family.

Of course, doesn't help that the paternal attitude of Japanese men hasn't improved since WWII, but I digress...
 
2013-12-26 11:17:24 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: quatchi: A re-armed Japan is probably in the cards at some point in the near future due to China's rise as an economic and military power.

I'm actually a little surprised the Peace Constitution has held on as long as it has.

That noted, Japan's inability or unwillingness to come to terms with some of it's actions during WWII even up to this day is a little disconcerting.

How is Japan not rearmed?  They have a decent sized and modern navy.  Over 250 modern fighters with 50 F-35's on order.   700 modern tanks.


They still have no nukes. Not that that is necessarily such a bad thing in and of itself but they won't be seen as a credible buffer to a nuclear armed China without them.

In terms of their modern navy they have exactly three aircraft carriers at present (called "destroyers" in order to get around the constitutional language) brought hastily into being from 2009-2013 after China announced their intention to produce their first AC and India spend 5 billion on theirs. A lot more people in Japan are looking for constitutional changes so they can a) be seen as a credible player in the region that is increasingly having it's own little arms race, b) get into the military arms business themselves (currently they aren't allowed to sell weapon systems outside Japan) and c) Assert supremacy over some islands still in dispute in their backyard that have long been contended.

So to be more precise, they are re-armed, they are also in the process of re-arming further and in the future they will almost inevitably be more so.

Not because some nutball RW Japanese politician says so or because of increased imperialism just cos that's how it is.
 
2013-12-26 11:21:19 AM  

quatchi: In terms of their modern navy they have exactly three aircraft carriers at present (called "destroyers" in order to get around the constitutional language) brought hastily into being from 2009-2013 after China announced their intention to produce their first AC and India spend 5 billion on theirs. A lot more people in Japan are looking for constitutional changes so they can a) be seen as a credible player in the region that is increasingly having it's own little arms race, b) get into the military arms business themselves (currently they aren't allowed to sell weapon systems outside Japan) and c) Assert supremacy over some islands still in dispute in their backyard that have long been contended.


Thing is, they don't really need carriers.  The vast majority of the areas where they need to project power to are within air field range.
 
2013-12-26 11:29:28 AM  

joonyer: RexTalionis: QuesoDelicioso: We wouldn't take it kindly in America if other countries stirred up a shiatstorm over the President visiting Arlington National Cemetery.

We don't bury convicted war criminals in Arlington.

Because we don't convict our war criminals.


What he said. I'm sure there are a lot of people around the world who take issue with some of what our military has done in years past. (And present.)
 
2013-12-26 11:33:37 AM  

Laobaojun: When will the Japanese make the role of Unit 731 part of their high school history curriculum?

My contempt for WW II Japan apologists grows every year.  Especially now that they have a growing "re-arm Japan" movement.

/just kidding - let the "First Island Chain" rearm.   Better they channel their engineering talent into the defense industry than try to compete economically with Worst Korea.  And if re-armed, they might make a noticeable speed bump for China's regional ambitions.


Japan has the fourth largest economy in the world. South Korea is #12.
 
2013-12-26 11:55:25 AM  

EyeballKid: SurfaceTension: Arkanaut: RexTalionis: Simple solution would simply to raze the Yusukani War Shrine.

Or they could rebury the war criminals elsewhere.

Even the survivors?


Bravo. Keep up the good work.


Thanks, I'll be here all week.

/tip the veal
//try your waitress
///not quitting my day job
 
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