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(ESPN)   Belichick: "Lack of workouts (and good video tapes) is why the Pats haven't won another Superbowl." Payton: "Lack of bounties is why the Saints haven't won another Superbowl"   (espn.go.com) divider line 25
    More: Interesting, Bill Belichick, Super Bowl, Pats, Saints, Mike Reiss, exercises, Jerod Mayo, Vince Wilfork  
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1453 clicks; posted to Sports » on 26 Dec 2013 at 1:55 AM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-26 07:37:58 AM
www.lz95.net

RIP- Payton
 
2013-12-26 08:17:30 AM
Joking aside, BB might have a point about the injury bug this year.

My friends and I were trying to sort this out earlier in the year. It just seems like injuries are way up this year - and of course you notice those most when it's the marquee players getting hurt, not some anonymous lineman only known by his team's most diehard fans.

A couple of us latched onto the idea that maybe it's all the low hits. Players are changing the way they hit and the way they tackle so as to avoid fines for helmet-to-helmet. Now, it's groin issues and blown knees and torn ACLs left and right. Or maybe it's a cracked rib here, a shoulder there. The counter-argument was that we noticed it more this season because we were all tending to fantasy football teams, rebuilding on a weekly basis to replace some injured starter.

I'll grant that players are identified as injured or even sit for things that they might have played through long ago (concussions probably being #1 among those). And I'll admit that FF probably makes you notice some of the injuries more than if you were only following your own team.

I did like the idea that players' changed styles contributed to injuries - it's a convenient possibility. But the lack of sanctioned training/practice time makes plenty of sense, too. There's only so much on-field activity that can be replicated through machines and strength training. And I'm sure plenty of players could use discipline in learning how to take a hit without destroying themselves (looking at RG3 here). You're not going to simulate that with a Bowflex.

I understand the idea of working conditions and the purpose of a player's union for such things. But on the other hand, I imagine that plenty of players wouldn't mind working through an extra team practice or two (or three) if they thought that it would improve their chances of getting that ring. If they don't want to work that hard, there's always a less-disciplined locker room they can take their talents to.

/the real answer is cyborgs
//too bad "CFL" is already taken
 
2013-12-26 08:31:36 AM

pwn3d781: Joking aside, BB might have a point about the injury bug this year.

My friends and I were trying to sort this out earlier in the year. It just seems like injuries are way up this year - and of course you notice those most when it's the marquee players getting hurt, not some anonymous lineman only known by his team's most diehard fans.

A couple of us latched onto the idea that maybe it's all the low hits. Players are changing the way they hit and the way they tackle so as to avoid fines for helmet-to-helmet. Now, it's groin issues and blown knees and torn ACLs left and right. Or maybe it's a cracked rib here, a shoulder there. The counter-argument was that we noticed it more this season because we were all tending to fantasy football teams, rebuilding on a weekly basis to replace some injured starter.

I'll grant that players are identified as injured or even sit for things that they might have played through long ago (concussions probably being #1 among those). And I'll admit that FF probably makes you notice some of the injuries more than if you were only following your own team.

I did like the idea that players' changed styles contributed to injuries - it's a convenient possibility. But the lack of sanctioned training/practice time makes plenty of sense, too. There's only so much on-field activity that can be replicated through machines and strength training. And I'm sure plenty of players could use discipline in learning how to take a hit without destroying themselves (looking at RG3 here). You're not going to simulate that with a Bowflex.

I understand the idea of working conditions and the purpose of a player's union for such things. But on the other hand, I imagine that plenty of players wouldn't mind working through an extra team practice or two (or three) if they thought that it would improve their chances of getting that ring. If they don't want to work that hard, there's always a less-disciplined locker room they can take their talents to.

/the real an ...


This article might help.

To recap:
There has been a slow upward trend in the number of injuries over the past four years. There has not been a dramatic surge in injuries in 2013.
The percentage of ACL injuries caused by contact is about the same as prior seasons.
It's possible that lack of practice increases injuries, but more information is required.
 
2013-12-26 08:35:49 AM

pwn3d781: Joking aside, BB might have a point about the injury bug this year.

My friends and I were trying to sort this out earlier in the year. It just seems like injuries are way up this year - and of course you notice those most when it's the marquee players getting hurt, not some anonymous lineman only known by his team's most diehard fans.

A couple of us latched onto the idea that maybe it's all the low hits. Players are changing the way they hit and the way they tackle so as to avoid fines for helmet-to-helmet. Now, it's groin issues and blown knees and torn ACLs left and right. Or maybe it's a cracked rib here, a shoulder there. The counter-argument was that we noticed it more this season because we were all tending to fantasy football teams, rebuilding on a weekly basis to replace some injured starter.

I'll grant that players are identified as injured or even sit for things that they might have played through long ago (concussions probably being #1 among those). And I'll admit that FF probably makes you notice some of the injuries more than if you were only following your own team.

I did like the idea that players' changed styles contributed to injuries - it's a convenient possibility. But the lack of sanctioned training/practice time makes plenty of sense, too. There's only so much on-field activity that can be replicated through machines and strength training. And I'm sure plenty of players could use discipline in learning how to take a hit without destroying themselves (looking at RG3 here). You're not going to simulate that with a Bowflex.

I understand the idea of working conditions and the purpose of a player's union for such things. But on the other hand, I imagine that plenty of players wouldn't mind working through an extra team practice or two (or three) if they thought that it would improve their chances of getting that ring. If they don't want to work that hard, there's always a less-disciplined locker room they can take their talents to.

/the real an ...


While I agree on the fact that we pay more attention, there is unfortunately another side that works into this idea.  It is the fact that players, while truly being clueless about good tackling technique anymore, also tend to get more and more complacent when they're been dubbed "stars."  They think they're God's gift to the NFL and no amount of work is necessary to keep them so.  (Case in point: Mike Wallace.)  To me, it's a combination of ego and "oh, well the league says I can lay off, so it must be okay" that have turned players into the really bad technical players of today.

What's amazing to me about the ACL's is that we have all these problems, and yet we spent thirty frickin' years playing on Astrodturf on a regular basis and didn't seem to have half this problem.
 
2013-12-26 08:41:17 AM
BTW - BAD subby, try reading the story. BB is talking about more injuries, not going to the playoffs.
 
2013-12-26 09:23:17 AM

FriarReb98: While I agree on the fact that we pay more attention, there is unfortunately another side that works into this idea.  It is the fact that players, while truly being clueless about good tackling technique anymore, also tend to get more and more complacent when they're been dubbed "stars."  They think they're God's gift to the NFL and no amount of work is necessary to keep them so.  (Case in point: Mike Wallace.)  To me, it's a combination of ego and "oh, well the league says I can lay off, so it must be okay" that have turned players into the really bad technical players of today.

What's amazing to me about the ACL's is that we have all these problems, and yet we spent thirty frickin' years playing on Astrodturf on a regular basis and didn't seem to have half this problem.


I've seen that argument a lot here, and I've used it in conversation since, because it makes a lot of sense. You don't wrap up and tackle a guy; you hit him and hope he fumbles the ball. As long as that's accepted by the refs - and as long as it's effective - that's how players are going to play. It looks impressive, it's violent as hell, and it'll make the replay reels more than a form tackle will. But it carries an injury risk that isn't as likely if you wrap the guy up and take him down.

To curb that behavior, you'd have to change that at the college level.

You have to wonder, too, if the training and conditioning and whatever legal supplements the players are on (and whatever illegal ones they're not getting caught with, too) have anything to do with the brittle players we see. Is there any offensive player on the Patriots (besides Tom Brady, obviously) who's been healthy enough to start in all 15 games so far? It's almost like race horses.
 
2013-12-26 09:56:35 AM

pwn3d781: FriarReb98: While I agree on the fact that we pay more attention, there is unfortunately another side that works into this idea.  It is the fact that players, while truly being clueless about good tackling technique anymore, also tend to get more and more complacent when they're been dubbed "stars."  They think they're God's gift to the NFL and no amount of work is necessary to keep them so.  (Case in point: Mike Wallace.)  To me, it's a combination of ego and "oh, well the league says I can lay off, so it must be okay" that have turned players into the really bad technical players of today.

What's amazing to me about the ACL's is that we have all these problems, and yet we spent thirty frickin' years playing on Astrodturf on a regular basis and didn't seem to have half this problem.

I've seen that argument a lot here, and I've used it in conversation since, because it makes a lot of sense. You don't wrap up and tackle a guy; you hit him and hope he fumbles the ball. As long as that's accepted by the refs - and as long as it's effective - that's how players are going to play. It looks impressive, it's violent as hell, and it'll make the replay reels more than a form tackle will. But it carries an injury risk that isn't as likely if you wrap the guy up and take him down.

To curb that behavior, you'd have to change that at the college level.

You have to wonder, too, if the training and conditioning and whatever legal supplements the players are on (and whatever illegal ones they're not getting caught with, too) have anything to do with the brittle players we see. Is there any offensive player on the Patriots (besides Tom Brady, obviously) who's been healthy enough to start in all 15 games so far? It's almost like race horses.


Or you can just insitute a tackle box. Kinda like a strike zone for hits. Anything deliberatively outside that is a personal foul. The bad tackling will end.
 
2013-12-26 10:10:49 AM

Publikwerks: Or you can just insitute a tackle box. Kinda like a strike zone for hits. Anything deliberatively outside that is a personal foul. The bad tackling will end.


You're not going to get many people hooked on that one, although the idea may lure a few to take the bait.
 
2013-12-26 10:13:15 AM
Weird how some people ridicule experts and other professionals who would know about such things.  He gets paid millions to manage a football team and was giving his opinion based on that knowledge.  He wasn't whining about not winning super bowls whatsoever.   Nice troll, submitter.
 
2013-12-26 10:26:04 AM
Dallas and Washington owners blame the lack of recent Super Bowls on dip-shiat, meddling ownership.
 
2013-12-26 10:31:14 AM
pwn3d781: I've seen that argument a lot here, and I've used it in conversation since, because it makes a lot of sense. You don't wrap up and tackle a guy; you hit him and hope he fumbles the ball. As long as that's accepted by the refs - and as long as it's effective - that's how players are going to play. It looks impressive, it's violent as hell, and it'll make the replay reels more than a form tackle will. But it carries an injury risk that isn't as likely if you wrap the guy up and take him down.

To curb that behavior, you'd have to change that at the college level.

You have to wonder, too, if the training and conditioning and whatever legal supplements the players are on (and whatever illegal ones they're not getting caught with, too) have anything to do with the brittle players we see. Is there any offensive player on the Patriots (besides Tom Brady, obviously) who's been healthy enough to start in all 15 games so far? It's almost like race horses.


The thing is, I've never seen any data to back up the idea that spearing someone is more effective in forcing a fumble than a proper form tackle, unless you're deliberately trying to knock the ball carrier unconscious. Since it's bowl season, lets look at one of the most notable tackles from last year:

i.huffpost.com

Legs on the ground and used for leverage, helmet on the ball, arms wrapping up the runner, helmet flying off because Smith's a dumbass who doesn't wear a helmet properly. The lack of proper tackling may partly be due to fears that the helmet will slide up and cause a helmet-to-helmet hit, but a lot of it's the belief that flying at the other player like a missile will somehow work better. I don't think it does, and a proper, head-on form tackle looks just as impressive as trying to bust through a player's chest like the thing from Alien.
 
2013-12-26 11:04:01 AM
Maybe today's players are motivated by factors beyond winning championships, and so they rely more on natural talent and athleticism than intense study and deep understanding? I am not really sure 4 weeks of required practice is make or break for guys who can have access to all of the materials that would be available during that period, and just choose to do other things.
 
2013-12-26 11:24:14 AM

blunto: Weird how some people ridicule experts and other professionals who would know about such things.  He gets paid millions to manage a football team and was giving his opinion based on that knowledge.  He wasn't whining about not winning super bowls whatsoever.   Nice troll, submitter.


You don't need to be a doctor or football professional to be able to read the article.

FTA: "Belichick was specifically challenging several new rules negotiated into the NFL labor deal that ended an offseason-long lockout in 2011."

"The NFL declined to released its numbers. But according to STATS, the number of NFL players finishing a season on injured reserve has risen significantly over the past 14 seasons.From 2000-06, there was an average of 239 players on IR. That average has jumped to about 314 over the past seven years.The low over that span was 192 in 2001, with the high being 353 in 2010, but that was before the new offseason rules came into effect."
 
2013-12-26 11:25:45 AM
Belichick: "Lack of  being able to cheat" Is why the pats havent won another superbowl.

There I fixed it.
 
2013-12-26 11:35:26 AM
Subby is a hater
 
2013-12-26 12:47:13 PM

Nhojwolfe: Belichick: "Lack of  being able to cheat" Is why the pats havent won another superbowl.

There I fixed it.


By echoing the joke that's already in the headline? Uh, okay. Here's your award ceremony.
media.animevice.com
 
2013-12-26 01:17:04 PM

Theaetetus: Nhojwolfe: Belichick: "Lack of  being able to cheat" Is why the pats havent won another superbowl.

There I fixed it.

By echoing the joke that's already in the headline? Uh, okay. Here's your award ceremony.
[media.animevice.com image 600x480]


The only time one could have been proud of that feat was in WoW
 
2013-12-26 02:10:06 PM
Fark em
 
2013-12-26 04:37:32 PM
The only reason the Aint's ever won a Super Bowl is because games were rigged for them to give victims of Hurricane Katrina something to feel good about. When the results of a sporting event seem like they came from a storybook. It was rigged like the WWE.
 
2013-12-26 06:22:50 PM

Nhojwolfe: Belichick: "Lack of  being able to cheat" Is why the pats havent won another superbowl.

There I fixed it.


Huh. It took a lot longer than usual for the ignorant football fan who doesn't understand spygate to post.
 
2013-12-26 07:34:15 PM

macdaddy357: The only reason the Aint's ever won a Super Bowl is because games were rigged for them to give victims of Hurricane Katrina something to feel good about. When the results of a sporting event seem like they came from a storybook. It was rigged like the WWE.


Umm, Post-season Manning is why they won a Superb Owl.
 
2013-12-26 07:51:59 PM

irishman4: Subby is a hater


Stating facts is now "hating"

Enjoy watching Brady get his teeth kicked in this weekend.
 
2013-12-26 08:10:40 PM

overfienduglar: macdaddy357: The only reason the Aint's ever won a Super Bowl is because games were rigged for them to give victims of Hurricane Katrina something to feel good about. When the results of a sporting event seem like they came from a storybook. It was rigged like the WWE.

Umm, Post-season Manning is why they won a Superb Owl.


Even if Manning takes the Colts down the field for a TD, there would have been 3-4 minutes left for Brees to take the Saints back down the field on a Colts D that hadn't stopped them since the early 2nd quarter.
 
2013-12-26 09:42:14 PM

overfienduglar: macdaddy357: The only reason the Aint's ever won a Super Bowl is because games were rigged for them to give victims of Hurricane Katrina something to feel good about. When the results of a sporting event seem like they came from a storybook. It was rigged like the WWE.

Umm, Post-season Manning is why they won a Superb Owl.


Well, let's add to that equation, because it's not just Post-Season Manning.  It's Post Season Manning vs. quarterback with a clue + defense that's just good enough to capitalize on PSM.
 
2013-12-27 09:34:24 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Stating facts is now "hating"


Patriots' win-loss record is almost the same (slightly better) after "spygate" than before it. They went 16-0 in the season when they were scrutinized and under a microscope. They have gone to 2 Superbowls since spygate. They won each of their Superbowls by 3 points, and lost the other two by 3 and 4 points. They lost one of those to  a Giants team that almost beat them in the last game of the season.

Yeah-- they were "cheating." It all points to that. For sure. Yup. They just can't win. *big farking roll eyes*

/Ravens Fan
 
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